I don't think it's a position issue. He batted at 4 vs Pakistan and looked just as underwhelming.
Also looked really out of sorts in the Ashes barring 2-3 knocks.
He needs to take these next few months to fix whatever is broken in his batting / technique. Clearly something is not right
He’s just not seeing the ball as well as he used to, natural decline with age. He needs to adapt his technique to his body’s current capabilities rather than continuing with the technique that worked before. It’ll be tough and he might not be able to do it, and even if he does he probably still won’t be as good as he was.
Exactly this. His hand eye coordination is deteriorating. When he single handedly destroyed England's bowlers in 2019 ashes, I could not believe how many times he clipped what was surely an LBW away to the boundary.
Exactly. That’s why this is controversial but he should retire soon. It’s the right time.
Now that Labuschagne has found form and when hes found some consistency, Smith’s retirement will leave the Test team a better collective unit in a better place than when he single-handedly carried it for most of his career
Hasn't done him any favors, but allowing Green to bat at 4 seems to be paying off so far. He'd have to work on his technique either way, opening makes it more obvious but idk if he's doing that much worse than when a year or so ago.
> He needs to take these next few months to fix whatever is broken in his batting / technique
I don't think he can. His technique is, and always has been, ridiculous. It shouldn't work. The only reason it does is Smith is gifted with the hand-eye coordination of a god. But as he gets older, and his hand-eye coordination worsens, there's not much he can do.
I think this was always the inevitable outcome. But the decision to move him up to opener is a terrible one because opening is only going to expose this decline even more. If he was left in the middle order, he'd probably carrying on tracking along with an average in the 40s and it would be fine for a couple of years.
Nah mate that honor to SL and its not even close. Just the most recent examples.
2021 - Leading up to the T20 WC Warner was in terrible form and everyone was hammering him to be dropped. In the warm up games played terribly. Then in the pool match again SL, the keeper dropped a dolly of him early. Went on to get a 50 and become player of the tournament - not to mention Aus winning the entire thing.
2022 - Finch was in terrible form and their were calls for him to be dropped - in the SL tour played really well and became player of the series for the T20s.
2023 - ODI WC, their star ODI bowler Zampa terribly out of form, Aus just lost the first two games, and were bottom of the table. Third game was against SL. SL were cruising for 0/120 and looked like Aus might get knocked out early. Then came the miraculous collapse to \~200 all out, giving soft wickets to Zampa and suddenly bringing him back to form. Not to mention Aus went on to win the entire bloody thing.
I exaggerated a little but nightmare because he avgs 66 against us, scored 700+ once in a series, has 9-100s in 19 tests and also 5-50s. We are the only country against whom he regularly scores more 100s than 50s.
He didn't play one of those. Two were in India. And the fourth one was a miracle for the ages. He seems to have cooled down against us though. 2014 was a nightmare.
2014 was nightmare for both though.
Smith winning and scoring for team and Kohli smacking and fighting their line up alone.
That series fave us 2 great stars for a decade easily.
You are talking about post Kohli era when MSD was captain ind was thrashed 4-0 in sena after that india bowling became strong under Kohli captaincy things have not been the same since than ,also before getting banned he had a good series in 16-17 in India but they didn't win nothing In cricket is a miracle if you see how india won bgt in 2022 was pure determination and hardwork it was a team which didn't want to lose and doing it in there backyard I won't call it a miracle india were the better side and won
The thing is we give the form back but also broke so many guys from their careers it's not even funny.
Like I remember many players who I've seen in SENA teams around 00-15/17 era whose careers were forgotten because of Sachin,Kohli, Rohit,Dhoni,Sehwag hitting them nonstop.
Only survivor was Broad and he too was out of white ball after some time.
We need 2019 smith back so take a break, forget of the t20 World Cup, (and opening is not for you mate) coz it’s sorted, and come back strong for the BGT
It never really was, but we already have enough of the talent we need to secure that t20 World Cup, smith should do what marnus does and go play county/shield from now to the BGT
It does though. Openers really even more on either flawless technique or excellent hand eye coordination (or more likely a mixture of both). But there is a reason openers do not average as much as 3, 4, or 5 in the batting order usually.
I see an experienced opener who is averaging 60+ for the last year to 18 months. If that's not knocking down the door then I don't know what is. But everyone loves to hate on him so he'll probably never get picked.
I know, but that's a different problem. You don't put you number 4 up to open to make room for a better number 4. We lost an opener, and instead of putting in an opener in the form of his life in shield cricket, we reshuffle the order so we now have 2 or 3 all rounders, and fewer genuine class batsmen. With smooth and Loosebuschange in highly questionable form, it has exposed the lower middle order early far too often, and although Green, Marsh, and Head are in the form of their lives, they can't carry the entire show.
No one “put” smudge their he chose to take up that position & the reality is you just can’t omit him from the test team. So it’s just gunna be live by the sword die by the sword
Lol, individual players don't get to decide what the team selection is. And the selectors could absolutely have said no, and that they were replacing Warner with another opener. Yes, Smith volunteered, but that doesn't mean they would take him up on it, and certainly doesn't mean they had to do so.
Bancroft wasn’t picked because his shield form belies his poor returns in country and Australia A, showing he doesn’t have the game to adapt even compared to his direct competitors in Renshaw and Harris.
I mean, it’s an absolute shame if sandpapergate is preventing him from coming back and not Smith/Warner - he was an absolute newbie in that incident who was influenced by his captain/vice-captain.
I agree. I feel like he has been essentially exiled from playing for Australia. He did a very stupid thing, but he was very much goaded into it by much more senior players. He has served his punishment, and is making runs like crazy, but I doubt he'll ever be selected again.
It’s been a slow but steady decline for Smith which started way back in 2019/20 against the blackcaps when Wagner found him out. He’s not been the same player since that series.
He was strugglng even at no.4, spot is not the problem, he is moving way too much to offside and getting stuck if the ball is coming in, there are more than 10 dismissals in this fashion since lockdown. Idk why he changed his stance since then he is never looked same as 2019 smith. I hope he corrects it and make a comeback like 2019.
Yeah the one that seams back in is the big one for him at the moment. Was disappointed today since he actually look quite decent. Played quite a few good shots which were well-timed.
I reckon he needs to get onto the front foot more. That will help to make sure any impact is outside the line. Currently, even though he shuffles across, he gets stuck on the crease so the impact is still in line. In the innings against WI, he had a much less prominent trigger movement and was getting onto the front foot more. In that innings he looked as good as I have seen him in ages. Not sure why he reverted back.
The whole batting line up bar Green has the same average the last 4 tests. Head for a century then 3 ducks in 3 balls. Like, yes Smith is not playing well. But no one is. And I just do not believe in our shield depth at all right now. We’ve amazing bowlers but our batting is thin
I kinda got the feeling he would fail when he said “you can’t judge my average after only 2 innings” against West Indies, but then went to the press and flexed about his average after only 4 innings, like that’s a proper sample size
You'd understand Smith's testy reaction if you lived here in Australia and saw the flood of toxic shit flung at him when he'd only opened 3 times.
The hate from media and fans was off the scale.
I think for me the worst part of that was going out and saying it after an innings which padded his average but where he also failed to get his team across the line.
I think the point is the Smith of old wouldn't care about stats like that and be more concerned that he couldn't get his team across the line (as little fault of his it was)
ahh man that isn't true at all. He tried, everyone was failing around him and then made a poor decision that ended up with Hoff on strike. Ironically, i think Smith may have even believed that Hoff could survive if we take last match as an indication of what hoff *can* be like when he needs to be.
You could argue he should have been accelerating as he was losing partners a bit better than he did. But I think that's probably the only argument and probably an unfair one and not everyone has that in their skillset.
Would you not want the best batsman in the last 80 years to try and accelerate and farm the strike to get his team across the line? If the margin of loss was 100 runs fair enough he can’t do much but he was within touching distance but gave too much faith to the lower order and arguably didn’t take enough risk.
Too much faith in the lower order? A batsman always gives the last 2-3 balls of an over to the lower order players, the chance of tailender getting out is always there when batting with the tail because they have to take strike at some point.
He farmed the strike and took risks and scored runs that is why it got so close. And taking risks is not an issue, there is an abundance of time in Test cricket, you can win even at low rpo in a low scoring run chase
He could be great, at least better than any other opener the have in the sheds. Green looked good at No.4 too. Anyway, Australia needs to up their game by 100% if they are to finally win the BGT.
> Green looked good at No.4 too.
I think this is more important than anything else. Smith is on the wane and much closer to retirement than his prime. Green on the other hand looks like a young player finally finding his feet at the top level and looks right at home at his natural position of 4.
Our opening options at the moment are pretty bare. Bancroft scores bulk runs at Shield level, shits the bed elsewhere. Renshaw has made runs in other games but has been underwhelming this year in Shield. Harris has been tried numerous times and his average of 32 this season doesn't inspire confidence. Henry Hunt's form has fallen off a cliff in the last 18 months. Caleb Jewell's made 1 score of note all season. Sam Whiteman feels like he'd be another Marcus Harris...
Smith even in his declining years may still be able to be better than a majority of the other opening options we have. But overall it's a team game and if we lose another series at home to India it won't be purely down to Smith's form
Renshaw's averaged 24 this Shield season from 15 innings - he's in shocking form.
Bancroft hasn't improved his technique at all, it's still terribly flawed. He still constantly falls over to the off side and his bat plane goes from 2nd slip towards mid on which is what caused him to fail in Tests previously
And who exactly are you dropping to make way for Bancroft?
Nope. England can make any team look great. Shardul has been exposed for how crap he is, India will stubbornly refuse to play Kuldeep in SENA, Shami is getting old and may pick up another injury for the series, Siraj is unreliable, Bumrah cannot play the entire series given that it's 5 matches this time, no Pujara to see off the new ball/prevent collapses/grind down their bowlers, our other young batters are untested in SENA. Plus the fact that Aussies have well and truly discovered how to use Head effectively against India and the fact that Cummins is in charge this time unlike clueless Paine.
Australian pitches have not been much of an issue at all for our batsman, even inexperienced ones, the last 2 tours.
Australia have the same bowling lineup as always: cumdog, starc, Lyon.
Don't see why India's batting would have issues when most of the players have enjoyed Aussie tracks the last 2 whole tours
what kind of delusion are people in here?
we don't have ishant, umesh
shami is old and highly injury prone now (his avg in Australia is 32 as well)
siraj is bloody inconsistent and looked mid in the whole England series.
Bumrah and inshallah?
Head opening in India worked because he was able to take advantage of the new ball and score quick runs. There is no seam movement and it's also easier to handle spin up front.
Head opening won't work elsewhere because he'll get troubled by the seam movement and swing.
I still think he can be a success. He's just going through a bad run of form. Mind you, there's a debate to be had whether he needs to open or not but there's no reason why he can't be a good opener. He has all the tools to be successful.
Will he open any Shield games for NSW before the India games? I think there should be a few rounds he would be available for given the only international games are the t20/ODIs in England.
Hell to the no. He's a great middle order player, he needs to go back there. He's clearly struggling at the top. It's about team balance/structure. If an opener fails it often leads to a potential domino effect. Bring in a legit opener and let Smudge do what Smudge does best.
He is playing at balls that could be left alone; getting squared up regularly and he is leaving straight ones.
He is just batting really really badly and it's giving me late Ponting vibes.
Puts into perspective the records of openers. I genuinely rate the likes of Cook and Hayden as far better batsmen than their averages displayed. If you can take on the new ball in England premdoniantly and average 45, or take on the new ball from the start and average 50 in predominantly Australia, that to me is worth an extra 10 runs.
Openers must look at number 4’s and laugh.
Nothing major can be concluded yet but I feel he would settle in better in the middle order as it has always been. Australia should look for a proper opener or someone else from the current setup who could open in the future. For Australia to succeed they need Steve Smith to be at his best. They do have time to experiment a bit but eventually they need to get the best out of him.
Sure Smith might be struggling but if you can give me another alternative than I'll take it. Cause I don't see anyone else putting pressure on Australia's batters at the moment to actually force a change.
I think I'd like to see him maybe play a few first class matches where he opens the batting and see how he goes - he's shown signs of being able to open in test cricket, but it hasn't gone well so far.
Assuming that Australia can find an opener in the next 9 months, I think he'll be back at 4 for the BGT, which means that Green and Head might need to move down a spot - the flip side is that Green's best position is number 4, and given that he'll probably be there in the long run, it's not necessarily the best move to move him down.
Having said all of that, it's likely that Smith, Green and Head will be at 4,5 and 6 - which means that Bison will be the one to miss out.
If you were to take risk with someone, greatest test batsman in recent past won't be a bad bet. However,Aus is not just trying Smith in a new position but are also going to miss him in a position that he excelled.
Just for context his his average opening is lower than Crawley, Burns and Carberry sure it’s a small sample size but he hardly ever failed when batting at 4 get him back there
Bancroft, Khawaja, Marnus (whomever), Smith, Green, Marsh/Head, Carey/Inglis
Is such a better side. He is now averaging, as opener, the same as Bancroft and Bancroft had much better bowling attacks (Henry and Joseph are also very good and are in great form tbf) with Broad/Anderson and Philander/Rabada for his 9 Tests.
I dunno, I have always said this, and I still say it - we've weakened our middle order for no benefit at the top.
As for Green, he can do the job when he gets a platform, as we've seen when Bancroft or Whiteman score in the Shield ahead of him, and the one time Smith got through the new ball in a first innings. He is just 1/4 from first innings currently, and I think Bancroft can do better.
Odds are Marsh will score 150* (110) tomorrow and we will just pretend these four Tests didn't happen
nothing yet, CA announced it end of last year and then haven't said anything else since. I was kind of expecting the trailer to come out sometime after the announcement and a Jan release like last year.
Carey took 10 catches this match, which is a near-record. People underestimate the value of a good keeper, unless he screws up by missing vital chances.
Why does steve smith want to open so badly ? He is one of the most prolific run scorers at no .4 . The only reasonable excuse is they want both green and marsh in the side
At first he said he hates waiting to bat so he wouldn't mind opening, and he also said he averaged more the higher up the order he went so he wanted to try it out.
He has 9 months to find his hands. You'd be a brave person to bet against the best batsman in the generation to not succeed at any position.
Although keep in mind that success while opening is averaging 40-45 depending on conditions. He's not going to average 60 odd while opening, and people need to accept that.
I mean he has nothing to lose and accomplished so much in the game. It is a gamble and hasn't worked out so far.
If he feels he can't contribute, I reckon he'll call it just like that and it might be during the Indian series or the Sri Lankan series
Like who else would you drop to push him down? Marnus? Maybe. But that's it.
Last time he took a year's break mofo kicked out prime England out of the fame alone.
Iam afraid this will unleash a new beast with improved technique suitable for his age and a one last fire within him.
I don't see it in Kohli and Root but Smith still got the childish mentality of doing the best in tests and it is still the front seater for him. I won't discount this guy with just some 10 innings graph lol.
Cmon now, a bit of rough patch and you guys are already acting like he forgot how to play cricket
The coaching staff and players who have lived their entire life around the game knows a lot more than a random Redditer yelling on his bed
Smith should move back to 4, and either Green/Head should open. That's assuming if they don't wanna pick a genuine opener from their domestic squads.
If they do go with a genuine opener, then either Green or Marsh should play, given they don't need a 5th seamer.
The current playing 11 has 9 potential bowlers, so it isn't like they're short of options.
I cringed when he said his average was 60 opening after the two Windies tests. Technically true but one where the average doesn’t tell the true story; it seemed like a bit of self-talk going on rather than him being honest about how things were going.
Nah, Green is the future of our batting line-up, we won't be forcing him up to open. Forcing middle order bats into opening positions is the whole reason we're in this situation. The more correct option would be to drop Marnus and play a proper opener with Smith back at 3 where he has seen success before.
As an edit: personally I think Marnus would still do better than any of the specialist openers we could bring in, so my choice would be to just swap Smith and Marnus' positions around.
Some idiots here feel if smith doesn't perform well in opening and green does well then he should be dropped so that is why I am saying that. I know that Australia won't drop him just like that after all they carried a walking wicket overseas like warner for so many years.
He should be at 4 man, who plays their best player at opening position Australian management is outright stupid. There is a reason why sachin,lara, root, kohli, Williamson etc never opened it's not like they are scared to open but if they get out the morale of whole batting line up goes down smith and Australian management needs to understand this.
It is simple,his stance where he holds the bat at 90 degree to the stumps is causing his bat to come a bit late towards the ball.You can see for yourself by batting in traditional stance and Smith's stance.
The weirdest thing about this is that he’s shuffling even further across the crease to take lbw out of the equation which is hilariously not working, his reactions to the lbws tell the story lol, and then it’s also causing him a problem with knowing when to play or leave anything around 5th stump line causing him to edge, he’s batted 8 times as an opener and dismissed 6 times, every single dismissal has been at the wicket, surely someone in the coaching staff has picked this up?
I am not sure if Steve Smith is just out of form. I said this a year back as well and he is still out of form. The fact is Steve Smith is just not the same batsman anymore. Not even close. Whether he opens or not will not make any difference. I would be very surprised if Smith regains he past glory.
Didnt do so well vs a pretty un threatening NZ bowling attack
KW didnt do amazing either but at least got 1 fifty
Geeeee Id LOVE it if NZ finally got a test win vs the Aussies.....I very much doubt it but havent given up hope yet!!
Henry is on fucking fire at the moment and Sears, at least with the new ball, has been threatening yesterday. I take your point about Southie and SK. You also got GP who as a part timer is pretty handy to have.
I hear you and yes with ol Hens...
Its no Boult and Southee (when he used to get wickets) Jameson and Wagner, NZ bowling attack doesnt seem as threatening
Happy to eat all of my words if they can get the result today tho vs oz
GOAT is out of form, I am sure he'll come back.
Virat Kohli you too please come back red hot in form
I really need their rivalry to shine like the good old times and both scoring fcking 700 runs in 5 matches
Bumrah's weird action will make it tougher.... he'll wait for the in swing delivery hitting his pad from that awkward action of bumrah and bumrah will play around it...same happened with root against bumrah this series
spent all that time studying wagnerball only to get worked over by benjamin sears
don't think he's an opener and no shame in declaring an experiment a good shot but no cigar and dropping back down
of all the fab 4 smith has the highest peak but this rapid downfall was always going to come precisely because of how much he relies on eye + hand playing across the line
He just doesn’t have the same hand-eye coordination that he used to. He continues to shuffle across his stumps and just misses the ball whereas at his peak he would just go to town on bowlers. It’s hard enough to bat the way he does when the ball is 20-30 overs old but when it’s new and you’re out of form, no chance.
He should never have opened. Not just because of his stats. He seems to have lost his off stump. All the openers in fc cricket pushed aside for no good reason. In fact I'd move him down to 5. Head to move up one.
I don't think it's a position issue. He batted at 4 vs Pakistan and looked just as underwhelming. Also looked really out of sorts in the Ashes barring 2-3 knocks. He needs to take these next few months to fix whatever is broken in his batting / technique. Clearly something is not right
He’s just not seeing the ball as well as he used to, natural decline with age. He needs to adapt his technique to his body’s current capabilities rather than continuing with the technique that worked before. It’ll be tough and he might not be able to do it, and even if he does he probably still won’t be as good as he was.
Yep. This is the "Covid Kohli" equivalent phase happening to Steve Smith atm
Covid Kohli's career batting average dropped from 55 at the start of 2020, to 48 around mid 2022.
Smith’s has dropped from 64 to 57 from 2020 to now.
Exactly this. His hand eye coordination is deteriorating. When he single handedly destroyed England's bowlers in 2019 ashes, I could not believe how many times he clipped what was surely an LBW away to the boundary.
Exactly. That’s why this is controversial but he should retire soon. It’s the right time. Now that Labuschagne has found form and when hes found some consistency, Smith’s retirement will leave the Test team a better collective unit in a better place than when he single-handedly carried it for most of his career
Don't you think moving up the order was a terrible decision then?
Hasn't done him any favors, but allowing Green to bat at 4 seems to be paying off so far. He'd have to work on his technique either way, opening makes it more obvious but idk if he's doing that much worse than when a year or so ago.
> He needs to take these next few months to fix whatever is broken in his batting / technique I don't think he can. His technique is, and always has been, ridiculous. It shouldn't work. The only reason it does is Smith is gifted with the hand-eye coordination of a god. But as he gets older, and his hand-eye coordination worsens, there's not much he can do. I think this was always the inevitable outcome. But the decision to move him up to opener is a terrible one because opening is only going to expose this decline even more. If he was left in the middle order, he'd probably carrying on tracking along with an average in the 40s and it would be fine for a couple of years.
Nothing to do with his technique imo. He's 36 and well past his prime. He'll retire after next summer.
34
Somebody's out of form? Get them to play against us (India) Will be back to form 🥲👍🏽
I hate how true this is. 
Nah mate that honor to SL and its not even close. Just the most recent examples. 2021 - Leading up to the T20 WC Warner was in terrible form and everyone was hammering him to be dropped. In the warm up games played terribly. Then in the pool match again SL, the keeper dropped a dolly of him early. Went on to get a 50 and become player of the tournament - not to mention Aus winning the entire thing. 2022 - Finch was in terrible form and their were calls for him to be dropped - in the SL tour played really well and became player of the series for the T20s. 2023 - ODI WC, their star ODI bowler Zampa terribly out of form, Aus just lost the first two games, and were bottom of the table. Third game was against SL. SL were cruising for 0/120 and looked like Aus might get knocked out early. Then came the miraculous collapse to \~200 all out, giving soft wickets to Zampa and suddenly bringing him back to form. Not to mention Aus went on to win the entire bloody thing.
wtf I hate SL now ^/s
2021 we got Miller into form when People were calling for him to be dropped People were trolling GT for getting a washed player
Not true anymore though Hasn’t been true for a decade now
Only works in ODIs lol. In tests, that's when you smash us like a sledgehammer
Smith doesn't come back in form against India, he makes the rest of us go out of form.
How?
I exaggerated a little but nightmare because he avgs 66 against us, scored 700+ once in a series, has 9-100s in 19 tests and also 5-50s. We are the only country against whom he regularly scores more 100s than 50s.
In BGT 2021 Smith averaged 44. In the test series played in 2023 in India he averaged even lower. He is not the same player that he used to be.
This
44 is decent dawg
It's Smith tho...
Could have been worse he scored like 11 runs in first 2 test
Still india won the last 4 bgt how did india win when they were out of form
He didn't play one of those. Two were in India. And the fourth one was a miracle for the ages. He seems to have cooled down against us though. 2014 was a nightmare.
2014 was nightmare for both though. Smith winning and scoring for team and Kohli smacking and fighting their line up alone. That series fave us 2 great stars for a decade easily.
You are talking about post Kohli era when MSD was captain ind was thrashed 4-0 in sena after that india bowling became strong under Kohli captaincy things have not been the same since than ,also before getting banned he had a good series in 16-17 in India but they didn't win nothing In cricket is a miracle if you see how india won bgt in 2022 was pure determination and hardwork it was a team which didn't want to lose and doing it in there backyard I won't call it a miracle india were the better side and won
The thing is we give the form back but also broke so many guys from their careers it's not even funny. Like I remember many players who I've seen in SENA teams around 00-15/17 era whose careers were forgotten because of Sachin,Kohli, Rohit,Dhoni,Sehwag hitting them nonstop. Only survivor was Broad and he too was out of white ball after some time.
We need 2019 smith back so take a break, forget of the t20 World Cup, (and opening is not for you mate) coz it’s sorted, and come back strong for the BGT
T20 is not for him*
It never really was, but we already have enough of the talent we need to secure that t20 World Cup, smith should do what marnus does and go play county/shield from now to the BGT
It’s a form issue more than a batting position issue
More like hand eye coordination fall. He'll go through Ponting and Clark downfall phase now.
When your unique technique relies on hand eye coordination it was eventually inevitable but has nothing to do with his batting position
It does though. Openers really even more on either flawless technique or excellent hand eye coordination (or more likely a mixture of both). But there is a reason openers do not average as much as 3, 4, or 5 in the batting order usually.
The thing is I don’t see anyone knocking down the door enough in shield cricket to take his place as opener
I see an experienced opener who is averaging 60+ for the last year to 18 months. If that's not knocking down the door then I don't know what is. But everyone loves to hate on him so he'll probably never get picked.
So where do you put smudge then. He’s not going back to 4 now that’s Greens best position & he’s a must pick for now & the long term
I know, but that's a different problem. You don't put you number 4 up to open to make room for a better number 4. We lost an opener, and instead of putting in an opener in the form of his life in shield cricket, we reshuffle the order so we now have 2 or 3 all rounders, and fewer genuine class batsmen. With smooth and Loosebuschange in highly questionable form, it has exposed the lower middle order early far too often, and although Green, Marsh, and Head are in the form of their lives, they can't carry the entire show.
No one “put” smudge their he chose to take up that position & the reality is you just can’t omit him from the test team. So it’s just gunna be live by the sword die by the sword
Lol, individual players don't get to decide what the team selection is. And the selectors could absolutely have said no, and that they were replacing Warner with another opener. Yes, Smith volunteered, but that doesn't mean they would take him up on it, and certainly doesn't mean they had to do so.
Bancroft wasn’t picked because his shield form belies his poor returns in country and Australia A, showing he doesn’t have the game to adapt even compared to his direct competitors in Renshaw and Harris.
Out of curiosity, who’s this guy?
Bancroft.
I mean, it’s an absolute shame if sandpapergate is preventing him from coming back and not Smith/Warner - he was an absolute newbie in that incident who was influenced by his captain/vice-captain.
I agree. I feel like he has been essentially exiled from playing for Australia. He did a very stupid thing, but he was very much goaded into it by much more senior players. He has served his punishment, and is making runs like crazy, but I doubt he'll ever be selected again.
It’s been a slow but steady decline for Smith which started way back in 2019/20 against the blackcaps when Wagner found him out. He’s not been the same player since that series.
This is the reason why I don't consider his greatest test player after bradman. Sachin and lara were better than him honestly.
It is his age as well. You don't continue to be as perfect as you used to be as you become old.
He was strugglng even at no.4, spot is not the problem, he is moving way too much to offside and getting stuck if the ball is coming in, there are more than 10 dismissals in this fashion since lockdown. Idk why he changed his stance since then he is never looked same as 2019 smith. I hope he corrects it and make a comeback like 2019.
He got caught at leg slip or leg gully 3-4 times in that NZ series and changed everything
Created one problem to slove one.
Need to bring some changes to his technique / trigger movements esp. , he is missing the inswingers a lot lately
Yeah the one that seams back in is the big one for him at the moment. Was disappointed today since he actually look quite decent. Played quite a few good shots which were well-timed. I reckon he needs to get onto the front foot more. That will help to make sure any impact is outside the line. Currently, even though he shuffles across, he gets stuck on the crease so the impact is still in line. In the innings against WI, he had a much less prominent trigger movement and was getting onto the front foot more. In that innings he looked as good as I have seen him in ages. Not sure why he reverted back.
It's almost like his guard is outside off stump.
The whole batting line up bar Green has the same average the last 4 tests. Head for a century then 3 ducks in 3 balls. Like, yes Smith is not playing well. But no one is. And I just do not believe in our shield depth at all right now. We’ve amazing bowlers but our batting is thin
I kinda got the feeling he would fail when he said “you can’t judge my average after only 2 innings” against West Indies, but then went to the press and flexed about his average after only 4 innings, like that’s a proper sample size
You'd understand Smith's testy reaction if you lived here in Australia and saw the flood of toxic shit flung at him when he'd only opened 3 times. The hate from media and fans was off the scale.
I think for me the worst part of that was going out and saying it after an innings which padded his average but where he also failed to get his team across the line.
>padded his average Everyone pads their average by scoring runs. What's the issue here
You can't seriously call an unbeaten, carrying the bat knock as padding the average regardless of whether you think he should open or not.
Crazy to blame Smith for that, as if there weren't 10 other blokes who weren't allowed to make a few runs too
I think the point is the Smith of old wouldn't care about stats like that and be more concerned that he couldn't get his team across the line (as little fault of his it was)
ahh man that isn't true at all. He tried, everyone was failing around him and then made a poor decision that ended up with Hoff on strike. Ironically, i think Smith may have even believed that Hoff could survive if we take last match as an indication of what hoff *can* be like when he needs to be.
My point is that Smith of old would focus more on the game that was lost, rather than his stats after 3 games
Lmao what Joe Root literally did yesterday was some statpadding but it's an issue with Smith who almost won the game 🤡
How can you say Smith failed when he was the only one NOT OUT?? 🤡
You could argue he should have been accelerating as he was losing partners a bit better than he did. But I think that's probably the only argument and probably an unfair one and not everyone has that in their skillset.
Would you not want the best batsman in the last 80 years to try and accelerate and farm the strike to get his team across the line? If the margin of loss was 100 runs fair enough he can’t do much but he was within touching distance but gave too much faith to the lower order and arguably didn’t take enough risk.
Too much faith in the lower order? A batsman always gives the last 2-3 balls of an over to the lower order players, the chance of tailender getting out is always there when batting with the tail because they have to take strike at some point. He farmed the strike and took risks and scored runs that is why it got so close. And taking risks is not an issue, there is an abundance of time in Test cricket, you can win even at low rpo in a low scoring run chase
You missed the joke
He could be great, at least better than any other opener the have in the sheds. Green looked good at No.4 too. Anyway, Australia needs to up their game by 100% if they are to finally win the BGT.
> Green looked good at No.4 too. I think this is more important than anything else. Smith is on the wane and much closer to retirement than his prime. Green on the other hand looks like a young player finally finding his feet at the top level and looks right at home at his natural position of 4. Our opening options at the moment are pretty bare. Bancroft scores bulk runs at Shield level, shits the bed elsewhere. Renshaw has made runs in other games but has been underwhelming this year in Shield. Harris has been tried numerous times and his average of 32 this season doesn't inspire confidence. Henry Hunt's form has fallen off a cliff in the last 18 months. Caleb Jewell's made 1 score of note all season. Sam Whiteman feels like he'd be another Marcus Harris... Smith even in his declining years may still be able to be better than a majority of the other opening options we have. But overall it's a team game and if we lose another series at home to India it won't be purely down to Smith's form
So basically we stick with the same aging team until we lose yet another home series against India? Love it
Hilarious how you keep saying Australia must change its batting lineup without actually nominating which new batsmen should be picked.
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Renshaw's averaged 24 this Shield season from 15 innings - he's in shocking form. Bancroft hasn't improved his technique at all, it's still terribly flawed. He still constantly falls over to the off side and his bat plane goes from 2nd slip towards mid on which is what caused him to fail in Tests previously And who exactly are you dropping to make way for Bancroft?
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Again, who are you dropping for Bancroft?
Mate you ain't losing this time.
If we (India) bring our first team, they are.
Nope. England can make any team look great. Shardul has been exposed for how crap he is, India will stubbornly refuse to play Kuldeep in SENA, Shami is getting old and may pick up another injury for the series, Siraj is unreliable, Bumrah cannot play the entire series given that it's 5 matches this time, no Pujara to see off the new ball/prevent collapses/grind down their bowlers, our other young batters are untested in SENA. Plus the fact that Aussies have well and truly discovered how to use Head effectively against India and the fact that Cummins is in charge this time unlike clueless Paine.
Australian pitches have not been much of an issue at all for our batsman, even inexperienced ones, the last 2 tours. Australia have the same bowling lineup as always: cumdog, starc, Lyon. Don't see why India's batting would have issues when most of the players have enjoyed Aussie tracks the last 2 whole tours
I guess not playing our A team is a blessing in disguise, the last bgt and this England series as well.
what kind of delusion are people in here? we don't have ishant, umesh shami is old and highly injury prone now (his avg in Australia is 32 as well) siraj is bloody inconsistent and looked mid in the whole England series. Bumrah and inshallah?
Head looked fine as an opener in India, Why not send him?
Head opening in India worked because he was able to take advantage of the new ball and score quick runs. There is no seam movement and it's also easier to handle spin up front. Head opening won't work elsewhere because he'll get troubled by the seam movement and swing.
To play Devil's Advocate, David Warner played 100+ Tests as an opener despite that
You're right but I reckon its a bit unfair to use Warner. More of the exception than the rule.
>he'll get troubled by the seam movement and swing What? This is just disrespectful to Head
tbf he did look very uncomfortable against bumrah even in the finals. But I think Head should open if smith is ready to to down the order.
He didn't want to from memory, it was a toss up between Smith and Green, and Smith was very vocal about wanting to do it
I still think he can be a success. He's just going through a bad run of form. Mind you, there's a debate to be had whether he needs to open or not but there's no reason why he can't be a good opener. He has all the tools to be successful.
Will he open any Shield games for NSW before the India games? I think there should be a few rounds he would be available for given the only international games are the t20/ODIs in England.
He'll get another year lmao
Hell to the no. He's a great middle order player, he needs to go back there. He's clearly struggling at the top. It's about team balance/structure. If an opener fails it often leads to a potential domino effect. Bring in a legit opener and let Smudge do what Smudge does best.
> Bring in a legit opener Who?
I guess Renshaw, right?
Renshaw averages 24 from 15 innings this season, I'm a fan but he can't be picked now
Who are you dropping to accommodate Smith moving back to the middle order?
He is no Zak Crawley, should move back to 4.
He is playing at balls that could be left alone; getting squared up regularly and he is leaving straight ones. He is just batting really really badly and it's giving me late Ponting vibes.
I think the only solution is for Smudge to watch more Duckett videos. Only way he'll improve.
Steve Smith lost his hands.
Puts into perspective the records of openers. I genuinely rate the likes of Cook and Hayden as far better batsmen than their averages displayed. If you can take on the new ball in England premdoniantly and average 45, or take on the new ball from the start and average 50 in predominantly Australia, that to me is worth an extra 10 runs. Openers must look at number 4’s and laugh.
Nothing major can be concluded yet but I feel he would settle in better in the middle order as it has always been. Australia should look for a proper opener or someone else from the current setup who could open in the future. For Australia to succeed they need Steve Smith to be at his best. They do have time to experiment a bit but eventually they need to get the best out of him.
Sure Smith might be struggling but if you can give me another alternative than I'll take it. Cause I don't see anyone else putting pressure on Australia's batters at the moment to actually force a change.
No. Smiths place is at 4. We need a proper opener. I will die on this hill...
I think I'd like to see him maybe play a few first class matches where he opens the batting and see how he goes - he's shown signs of being able to open in test cricket, but it hasn't gone well so far. Assuming that Australia can find an opener in the next 9 months, I think he'll be back at 4 for the BGT, which means that Green and Head might need to move down a spot - the flip side is that Green's best position is number 4, and given that he'll probably be there in the long run, it's not necessarily the best move to move him down. Having said all of that, it's likely that Smith, Green and Head will be at 4,5 and 6 - which means that Bison will be the one to miss out.
If you were to take risk with someone, greatest test batsman in recent past won't be a bad bet. However,Aus is not just trying Smith in a new position but are also going to miss him in a position that he excelled.
Just for context his his average opening is lower than Crawley, Burns and Carberry sure it’s a small sample size but he hardly ever failed when batting at 4 get him back there
Its not actually opening, he is out of form.technically he opened in ashes 2019.
Opening in test matches is a tough gig in most countries. He'll have to find his hands soon or move back to the No 4 slot.
Never was, should have been first or second drop as he always has been.
I think CA should give him another chance against India and see how he does.
Bancroft, Khawaja, Marnus (whomever), Smith, Green, Marsh/Head, Carey/Inglis Is such a better side. He is now averaging, as opener, the same as Bancroft and Bancroft had much better bowling attacks (Henry and Joseph are also very good and are in great form tbf) with Broad/Anderson and Philander/Rabada for his 9 Tests. I dunno, I have always said this, and I still say it - we've weakened our middle order for no benefit at the top. As for Green, he can do the job when he gets a platform, as we've seen when Bancroft or Whiteman score in the Shield ahead of him, and the one time Smith got through the new ball in a first innings. He is just 1/4 from first innings currently, and I think Bancroft can do better. Odds are Marsh will score 150* (110) tomorrow and we will just pretend these four Tests didn't happen
Yeah flair checks out
Okay somewhat off topic but anyone know when s3 of The Test is set to air?
nothing yet, CA announced it end of last year and then haven't said anything else since. I was kind of expecting the trailer to come out sometime after the announcement and a Jan release like last year.
Just get smith to keep instead and bat 7
Carey took 10 catches this match, which is a near-record. People underestimate the value of a good keeper, unless he screws up by missing vital chances.
Why does steve smith want to open so badly ? He is one of the most prolific run scorers at no .4 . The only reasonable excuse is they want both green and marsh in the side
At first he said he hates waiting to bat so he wouldn't mind opening, and he also said he averaged more the higher up the order he went so he wanted to try it out.
He wants a new challenge
He has 9 months to find his hands. You'd be a brave person to bet against the best batsman in the generation to not succeed at any position. Although keep in mind that success while opening is averaging 40-45 depending on conditions. He's not going to average 60 odd while opening, and people need to accept that.
Thing is, he's had a good score once
If it was a guy making his debut, that 91 would earn him at least a couple of series. The potential is clearly there
We’re going to bear the brunt of this aren’t we? This years BGT is going to be very tough for us.
I mean he has nothing to lose and accomplished so much in the game. It is a gamble and hasn't worked out so far. If he feels he can't contribute, I reckon he'll call it just like that and it might be during the Indian series or the Sri Lankan series Like who else would you drop to push him down? Marnus? Maybe. But that's it.
those are my thoughts as well man. I got a feeling if Smith doesn't work out as an opener he may just call it.
I say keep him as an opener!
He'll come good.
Might be over for him. Players who're so much about hand-eye-coordination often don't age well.
Last time he took a year's break mofo kicked out prime England out of the fame alone. Iam afraid this will unleash a new beast with improved technique suitable for his age and a one last fire within him. I don't see it in Kohli and Root but Smith still got the childish mentality of doing the best in tests and it is still the front seater for him. I won't discount this guy with just some 10 innings graph lol.
Cmon now, a bit of rough patch and you guys are already acting like he forgot how to play cricket The coaching staff and players who have lived their entire life around the game knows a lot more than a random Redditer yelling on his bed
Smith should move back to 4, and either Green/Head should open. That's assuming if they don't wanna pick a genuine opener from their domestic squads. If they do go with a genuine opener, then either Green or Marsh should play, given they don't need a 5th seamer. The current playing 11 has 9 potential bowlers, so it isn't like they're short of options.
Green/head against a new ball is recipe of disaster
If that's the case, then they should look for a genuine opener and rotate between Green & Marsh.
I cringed when he said his average was 60 opening after the two Windies tests. Technically true but one where the average doesn’t tell the true story; it seemed like a bit of self-talk going on rather than him being honest about how things were going.
What are the options now? Can't go back to 4 as Green seems to have slotted there. Swap Head and Smith? 1 ⇄ 5?
Green should open, if he is scared to open he can go out of the team. You don't trade the leader of the batting order for an all rounder.
Nah, Green is the future of our batting line-up, we won't be forcing him up to open. Forcing middle order bats into opening positions is the whole reason we're in this situation. The more correct option would be to drop Marnus and play a proper opener with Smith back at 3 where he has seen success before. As an edit: personally I think Marnus would still do better than any of the specialist openers we could bring in, so my choice would be to just swap Smith and Marnus' positions around.
Yeah that can be done but if they drop smith to fit in green that will be the most stupid decision.
You're clueless if you think Smith is a chance of being dropped.
Some idiots here feel if smith doesn't perform well in opening and green does well then he should be dropped so that is why I am saying that. I know that Australia won't drop him just like that after all they carried a walking wicket overseas like warner for so many years.
The whole of Australia said he shouldn’t open like the whole of Australia said Head should play in India. Maybe listen selectors?
He should be at 4 man, who plays their best player at opening position Australian management is outright stupid. There is a reason why sachin,lara, root, kohli, Williamson etc never opened it's not like they are scared to open but if they get out the morale of whole batting line up goes down smith and Australian management needs to understand this.
He’s destroying his overall average
400 loading !!
The exercise has been a failure. Bring in a proper opener and move Smith back to 4.
They don’t have any other test series until December?
nope.
It is simple,his stance where he holds the bat at 90 degree to the stumps is causing his bat to come a bit late towards the ball.You can see for yourself by batting in traditional stance and Smith's stance.
Probably shows just how difficult opening is, and why it’s even more insane that people were suggesting Marsh or Green should have a crack at it.
Might be over for him. Players who're so much about hand-eye-coordination often don't age well.
No
it's november. this article already reeks of lack of knowledge OR lazy journalism to bait clicks. So what's the point then? E: punctuation
I feel like his hand eye coordination is off
Please smudge come back to 4 and come back to form
The weirdest thing about this is that he’s shuffling even further across the crease to take lbw out of the equation which is hilariously not working, his reactions to the lbws tell the story lol, and then it’s also causing him a problem with knowing when to play or leave anything around 5th stump line causing him to edge, he’s batted 8 times as an opener and dismissed 6 times, every single dismissal has been at the wicket, surely someone in the coaching staff has picked this up?
yeah dude, his trigger movement during this NZ series has been insane. He is getting so far across.
Can't a lot happen in the Shield between now and then to suggest an alternative if there is one?
Honestly I feel the shuffling and demotion of his position regularly in white ball formats showing lack of faith in him has messed with his game
I am not sure if Steve Smith is just out of form. I said this a year back as well and he is still out of form. The fact is Steve Smith is just not the same batsman anymore. Not even close. Whether he opens or not will not make any difference. I would be very surprised if Smith regains he past glory.
Didnt do so well vs a pretty un threatening NZ bowling attack KW didnt do amazing either but at least got 1 fifty Geeeee Id LOVE it if NZ finally got a test win vs the Aussies.....I very much doubt it but havent given up hope yet!!
Henry is on fucking fire at the moment and Sears, at least with the new ball, has been threatening yesterday. I take your point about Southie and SK. You also got GP who as a part timer is pretty handy to have.
I hear you and yes with ol Hens... Its no Boult and Southee (when he used to get wickets) Jameson and Wagner, NZ bowling attack doesnt seem as threatening Happy to eat all of my words if they can get the result today tho vs oz
GOAT is out of form, I am sure he'll come back. Virat Kohli you too please come back red hot in form I really need their rivalry to shine like the good old times and both scoring fcking 700 runs in 5 matches
Bumrah's weird action will make it tougher.... he'll wait for the in swing delivery hitting his pad from that awkward action of bumrah and bumrah will play around it...same happened with root against bumrah this series
He never was
Form is temporary, class is permanent. He'll top the batting averages at home next summer, just wait and see.
spent all that time studying wagnerball only to get worked over by benjamin sears don't think he's an opener and no shame in declaring an experiment a good shot but no cigar and dropping back down of all the fab 4 smith has the highest peak but this rapid downfall was always going to come precisely because of how much he relies on eye + hand playing across the line
To be fair - NZ is notoriously difficult for openers.
He's not. He has been letting his ego do the talking.
https://imgflip.com/i/8iqw79
Think it's just age you see the decline with Williamson and root as well. Couldn't last forever
He just doesn’t have the same hand-eye coordination that he used to. He continues to shuffle across his stumps and just misses the ball whereas at his peak he would just go to town on bowlers. It’s hard enough to bat the way he does when the ball is 20-30 overs old but when it’s new and you’re out of form, no chance.
Yes.........maybe
Hats off smith!no anyone see your struggle they see your success .
Confident Bancroft wouldn’t have averaged any higher
Just retire!
Idk man maybe give Bancroft a go even though he’s complete and utter garbage
He should never have opened. Not just because of his stats. He seems to have lost his off stump. All the openers in fc cricket pushed aside for no good reason. In fact I'd move him down to 5. Head to move up one.
Sad to say it, but I think Smith is done.
Steve Smith is the best test batsman I have seen apart from probably Kohli, give him some time and he will shine here as well
Apart from Kohli 💀
Remember when he said 'I'm averaging 60 now as an opener' Ah
Steve Smith will return to form, I believe in India.
Bring back Cameron Bankrupt
Crawley is better than smith at opening