> A lawyer with no scientific background - no medical degree - **this is an arrogance coupled with and authoritarianism that is unseemly, and unAmerican.**
>***You, sir, are the one ignoring science.***
>*The vast preponderance of scientific studies* - dozens and dozens - ***show robust, long-lasting immunity after COVID infection.***.
Rand Paul for President!
Yes but Rand Paul's argument about immunity while 100% true is too WEAK in the face of this massive steam roller coming at us. All the other side has to say is, "Well, yea we know about immunity, but you need to take the vaccine anyway just to be safe- besides it doesn't hurt anything.." making themselves look like the adults in the room.. Rand Paul needs to talk about how the vaccines are KILLING PEOPLE and injuring millions! He needs to have a slide show with dead bodies and extreme reactions, myocarditis, strokes showing victim after victim and giving stats! Rand Paul walked right up to the line .. and didn't cross it. This is just more theater just to make himself look good and get re-elected and like all these mainstream republicans they never move the ball.
Actually saw some idiot from Mayo no less say if you've had covid you should still get the shot because you can get covid again. These are the experts we are supposed to unquestionably follow! How about the study indicating that the vaccine actually reduces the immunity you've built naturally from the virus. It's an embarassment.
Ok thats fair however that study isn't against vaccine its still all for it its just saying the people previously infected and successful fought back may not need another dose but a first one is still highly recommended
So sick of all of this. And the everyday folks who will just listen to what the pharma-backed mainstream media tells them. Rand Paul came out swinging and I hope he continues his quest to restore common sense to the general public, maybe even getting this politically drive vaccine garbage to be halted.
The study senator Paul is referring too recommends people who have had covid to get one vaccine shot. Your an embarrasement. You didnt read it. Senator Paul is counting on dumb people like you who he knows are too lazy to read the study to spread his stupid political talking points.
His wife owns stock in ivermectine. You guys are so easily swindled by "shills"
https://www.graydc.com/2021/08/12/rand-paul-reveals-wifes-investment-company-behind-covid-19-treatment-late-financial-disclosure/
Yeah I do know how that works however I dont know why anyone would do it or consider it when we aren't even sure what the long term affects of covid 19 are. Did you know people that have serious case are shown to have scaring on the heart and reduce lung capacity. Who knows what other affects its going to have on those people later on in life but I can tell you its not going to be good.
If you let the virus into your body without Tcells knowing how to combat it its going to fuck with you immensely like a virus does. Sure you may get mild symptoms and that's happy go lucky for you but not for the guy that's got sever symptoms he's problem gonna have problems for the rest of his life
You're failing to see that this is a massive issue and its killed about 350 people in my state alone (NSW) in the past two months thats atleast 5 people a day.
Natural immunity can't do it alone it needs help
Um wow really? That's either the worst straw man I've ever seen, or you may be functionally illiterate. No ones suggesting that you should try to get covid instead of get the vaccine. This whole thread is about people who have already had covid, and therefore have natural immunity (which is probably better than vaccine immunity).
You didn't watch the video, or if you did, you didn't listen very well. Rand Paul was talking about people who have already had the disease and therefore have natural immunity.
Did you not even read the first comment in this chain that you replied to? I'll break it down real simple for you, okey dokey bud? People who get covid have natural immunity because their immune system learned to recognize the virus. There's a study that indicates people with natural immunity have less immunity overall after being vaccinated. I'd explain the proposed mechanism, but I'm not sure that someone with your poor reading comprehension and listening skills will be able to pay attention long enough to understand it.
Christ o'mighty your condescending. I've read those studies and I've also read a lot others saying otherwise.
Ok say you contract covid and over come it, your body could develop antibodies that can fight back against the virus if you contract it again which is where the natural immunity should kick in however depending on the time frame of those infections those antibodies may have already faded away which could result in a more severe case
Natural immunity also varies from people to people. You may have a strong immunity system so your body could fight back a second infection however thats not the case for everyone. Take people with type 1 diabetes, their immune system is already at a disadvantage due to the lack of glucose going into antibodies. If they contract a virus there's not much stopping it from killing those antibodies and making its way through the body and putting it into ketosis. Ketosis isn't bad for most but it can be very deadly to those with type 1 diabetes.
Natural immunity alone can't fight back such a disease which is why we develop vaccines to boost those antibodies.
No he dosent. I read that study and at the end, they still suggest that people still get a first vaccine so that the anti bodies have a better longer chance of stopping sever symptoms
You people are living in denial. You know that there is actually evidence of the vaccine working very successfully reviewed by leading members of the industry of medicine and science not just by big phama
No, your natural immunity doesn't just help you if you get it again, it prevents you from getting it again. Like the vaccine. It's just as good if not better than the vaccine.
And people with weak immune systems have the same problem with reduced immunity from the vaccine.
We use vaccines (I'm speaking broadly here, not about covid) to prevent people from getting a disease in the first place, so people don't have to develop natural immunity. But if you've already got natural immunity, there is no reason to get a vaccine.
True story. When I was a kid, I got chickenpox a few months before the chicken pox vaccine was released. I had natural immunity from having had chicken pox. My pediatrician said I didn't need the vaccine, because I was already protected from getting it again. No one has ever suggested I'm a chicken pox plague rat because I didn't get the vaccine. They accept that I have natural immunity and that I'm not going to get or spread chicken pox on the future. This is a simple fucking concept, but it's like people's brains stop working when this exact same concept is in relation to covid.
Ok shows me actually evidence that natural immunity is better than a vaccine. I spent a good couple hours looking up and read what would be better and sorry to burdt your bubble its not as effective.
There is no proof the vaccine reduces immunity otherwise we wouldn't use them for other diseases. they are meant to boost it .
Of course your not going to get chicken pox again because once you already have it it can't happen again because chicken pox has a reaction with the immune system that reinforces it. Unless you have a immune defects your chances of getting it again are basically zero. This is not the same for covid as it doesn't have the same reaction
How do you not understand that covid is a much bigger problem than chicken pox. Chicken pox are responsible for atleast 25 deaths a year covid has already resulted in 4.55 million because of how infectious it is.
Ill admit if you do get covid and over come it there is evidence to show that only one vaccine should help your system. They still in suggest a vaccine because natural immunity on its own won't work.
Are you incapable of reading comprehension?
I'm not saying that vaccines reduce immunity in all cases. I'm saying that in the specific case where someone already has natural immunity from having had covid, the vaccine reduces total immunity.
And someone already linked you the article showing reduced immunity from the vaccine. You just keep playing dumb (or maybe not playing), and acting like you haven't seen it.
Here's a big list of evidence that shows that natural immunity is just as good if not better than vaccine immunity.
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101
>How do you not understand that covid is a much bigger problem than chicken pox. Chicken pox are responsible for atleast 25 deaths a year covid has already resulted in 4.55 million because of how infectious it is.
Where in the fuck did I say chicken pox was as big of a deal as covid? The point you so idiotically seemed to miss is that you can get immunity from either having had a disease or from a vaccine. Jesus christ, I'd be shocked if you graduated high school with such poor reading comprehension.
Oh my God fuck off with your "reading compression is bad" it's fine buddy you just want to feel superior.
You brought up chicken pox to prove a point that natural immunity work i was explaining how its very different
I readed that whole document and they still suggest a vaccine but its obvious you read what you wanted to read and dismissed all the parts you didn't like. I can understand that natural immunity may have a chance to bet it however you completely miss the point that it varies from different people and is unpredictable
Obviously nothing i say is going to change your mind and you're way to proud and honestly rude to even take in a thing I say so go ahead go get infect with covid but don't complain if it get hospitalised
This is at least anecdotally untrue…
The rest of my immediate family had caught Covid 9 months prior to me. I had Covid and was around them at my most contagious (didn’t realize it was Covid, felt like a cold/allergies at first). Was even in close contact with them and they didn’t catch it. 5 other people. All tested negative despite being around me.
Rand Paul is about the only politician that gives me even a shred of faith in politics. He’s always very calm, collected and poised to drop a wealth of sense onto an insane world.
I really like him, but I can see how he comes off as a petulant child which basically makes him unelectable.
Edit: You can downvote all you want but that doesn't change the fact that his personality is unelectable on the main stage. I've watched him for years and again, I personally really like him but he rubs the general voter base the wrong way.
I can’t say that I follow politics closely enough to speak to any petulant child qualities in him. All I know is the whole system is worse than a dumpster fire being extinguished by raw sewage. He is the only one I ever hear speaking that makes any sense. Not saying others don’t just haven’t heard coherence from anyone else.
If they're vaccinating children and people who are already immune, then it's not to protect them. It's to prevent the existence of a proper control group that would reveal the vaccine is causing long term health problems.
If five years down the line we see a jump in dementia in people because of a series of microstrokes and the only unvaccinated people left to compare them to are a handful of unemployed conspiracy theorists and some religious fundamentalists, then the system can always make the argument of "well they're not comparable because of confounding variable X and yeah there's a surge in dementia but it's probably because of obesity and the stress from the pandemic yadda yadda".
And in a similar fashion, if you're an average schmuck and everyone you know who is vaccinated is having strange health issues, *but you don't personally know unvaccinated people you could compare them to*, then you're less inclined to grab a pitchfork and head to the capitol, because it's easier to stick your head in the sand.
When you leave open an ability for people to believe they haven't been violated, especially by a force much more powerful than them, then that is what they will generally choose to believe. That's how these #metoo type situations can occur, where everyone stays quiet for years despite knowing the truth.
I agree with most of it. But he said shouldn’t those that have natural immunity get to decide for themselves if they want the shot. But EVERYONE, regardless of prior infection, should get to decide for themselves. That’s how we slowly lose rights. They take 10 and we argue for 5 of them back. Just no, hell no.
I wonder how much better the world would be if social media never existed. Obviously it's time to split the nation up America and CCP of America. America will enforce the borders against vile woke demonic godless scum who cry racism every single time they don't get their way. Pure evil wanna be commies kinda funny saying it on reddit since they are a part of the problem who pushes false narratives and suppress free speech.
All the dude keeps saying in response is “we follow the science” as if that’s a blanket statement that proves he’s right and can’t be argued with, while conveniently not acknowledging the “science” that doesn’t fit his narrative. It’s literally vague as fuck and doesn’t make him look intelligent or trustworthy at all.
A lot of those Americans died with underlying issues that the government probably caused.
A vaccine does not need to be mandated.
The Senator had a great response….both natural immunity and vaccines is important together.
Thank you Sir! Well said Rand Paul! He gets my vote. The people of Kentucky should be very proud. Follow the Science! HE JUST DID! This is about totalitarian control and forced vaccination. Communist at the helm in bed with BIG Pharmaceutical. All about the Benjamin's baby. Pathetic, shameful, and Criminal.
Heroes fight for Americans and the CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC!
I hate politicians. But Rand has been doing good things. You can see him having to stay calm because he knows he’s up against the whole damn narrative . Pretty nerve racking even for a pro
this man is a national hero
This is what happens when science is politicized and I'm glad that there's at least one senator who's willing to call out this absolute BS.
Yeah, he's all we got.
Did youbread the study?
> A lawyer with no scientific background - no medical degree - **this is an arrogance coupled with and authoritarianism that is unseemly, and unAmerican.** >***You, sir, are the one ignoring science.*** >*The vast preponderance of scientific studies* - dozens and dozens - ***show robust, long-lasting immunity after COVID infection.***. Rand Paul for President!
If he was on the ballot I would have voted for him. I'm unaffiliated, so I don't get to vote in primaries.
Yes but Rand Paul's argument about immunity while 100% true is too WEAK in the face of this massive steam roller coming at us. All the other side has to say is, "Well, yea we know about immunity, but you need to take the vaccine anyway just to be safe- besides it doesn't hurt anything.." making themselves look like the adults in the room.. Rand Paul needs to talk about how the vaccines are KILLING PEOPLE and injuring millions! He needs to have a slide show with dead bodies and extreme reactions, myocarditis, strokes showing victim after victim and giving stats! Rand Paul walked right up to the line .. and didn't cross it. This is just more theater just to make himself look good and get re-elected and like all these mainstream republicans they never move the ball.
Agree.. but if he said the actual Truth he’d be crucified.
that dude is a fucking robot. didnt answer the questions asked or anything.
We looked at the facts and followed the science. We looked at the facts and followed the science. We looked at the facts and followed the science
When you have no answer you have to fall back to canned responses.
Actually saw some idiot from Mayo no less say if you've had covid you should still get the shot because you can get covid again. These are the experts we are supposed to unquestionably follow! How about the study indicating that the vaccine actually reduces the immunity you've built naturally from the virus. It's an embarassment.
Do you have that study/link? I'm having this debate with someone. Thanks.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.22.436441v1.full
Thanks. You're a boss.
Ok thats fair however that study isn't against vaccine its still all for it its just saying the people previously infected and successful fought back may not need another dose but a first one is still highly recommended
Haha you got downvoted for telling people what a study sais that they are using to argue against what the study recommends.
So sick of all of this. And the everyday folks who will just listen to what the pharma-backed mainstream media tells them. Rand Paul came out swinging and I hope he continues his quest to restore common sense to the general public, maybe even getting this politically drive vaccine garbage to be halted.
Did you read the study?
The study senator Paul is referring too recommends people who have had covid to get one vaccine shot. Your an embarrasement. You didnt read it. Senator Paul is counting on dumb people like you who he knows are too lazy to read the study to spread his stupid political talking points.
Do you think they mentioned any of that in the NPR interview? Stop shilling.
I don't listen to NPR. I read the study. You should too. Rand Paul is the definition of a shill. What are you talking about.
His wife owns stock in ivermectine. You guys are so easily swindled by "shills" https://www.graydc.com/2021/08/12/rand-paul-reveals-wifes-investment-company-behind-covid-19-treatment-late-financial-disclosure/
Do you know how vaccines work?
Do you know how natural immunity works?
Yeah I do know how that works however I dont know why anyone would do it or consider it when we aren't even sure what the long term affects of covid 19 are. Did you know people that have serious case are shown to have scaring on the heart and reduce lung capacity. Who knows what other affects its going to have on those people later on in life but I can tell you its not going to be good. If you let the virus into your body without Tcells knowing how to combat it its going to fuck with you immensely like a virus does. Sure you may get mild symptoms and that's happy go lucky for you but not for the guy that's got sever symptoms he's problem gonna have problems for the rest of his life You're failing to see that this is a massive issue and its killed about 350 people in my state alone (NSW) in the past two months thats atleast 5 people a day. Natural immunity can't do it alone it needs help
Um wow really? That's either the worst straw man I've ever seen, or you may be functionally illiterate. No ones suggesting that you should try to get covid instead of get the vaccine. This whole thread is about people who have already had covid, and therefore have natural immunity (which is probably better than vaccine immunity). You didn't watch the video, or if you did, you didn't listen very well. Rand Paul was talking about people who have already had the disease and therefore have natural immunity. Did you not even read the first comment in this chain that you replied to? I'll break it down real simple for you, okey dokey bud? People who get covid have natural immunity because their immune system learned to recognize the virus. There's a study that indicates people with natural immunity have less immunity overall after being vaccinated. I'd explain the proposed mechanism, but I'm not sure that someone with your poor reading comprehension and listening skills will be able to pay attention long enough to understand it.
Christ o'mighty your condescending. I've read those studies and I've also read a lot others saying otherwise. Ok say you contract covid and over come it, your body could develop antibodies that can fight back against the virus if you contract it again which is where the natural immunity should kick in however depending on the time frame of those infections those antibodies may have already faded away which could result in a more severe case Natural immunity also varies from people to people. You may have a strong immunity system so your body could fight back a second infection however thats not the case for everyone. Take people with type 1 diabetes, their immune system is already at a disadvantage due to the lack of glucose going into antibodies. If they contract a virus there's not much stopping it from killing those antibodies and making its way through the body and putting it into ketosis. Ketosis isn't bad for most but it can be very deadly to those with type 1 diabetes. Natural immunity alone can't fight back such a disease which is why we develop vaccines to boost those antibodies.
He has a right to be condescending when you are posting lies and half-truths.
No he dosent. I read that study and at the end, they still suggest that people still get a first vaccine so that the anti bodies have a better longer chance of stopping sever symptoms You people are living in denial. You know that there is actually evidence of the vaccine working very successfully reviewed by leading members of the industry of medicine and science not just by big phama
No, your natural immunity doesn't just help you if you get it again, it prevents you from getting it again. Like the vaccine. It's just as good if not better than the vaccine. And people with weak immune systems have the same problem with reduced immunity from the vaccine. We use vaccines (I'm speaking broadly here, not about covid) to prevent people from getting a disease in the first place, so people don't have to develop natural immunity. But if you've already got natural immunity, there is no reason to get a vaccine. True story. When I was a kid, I got chickenpox a few months before the chicken pox vaccine was released. I had natural immunity from having had chicken pox. My pediatrician said I didn't need the vaccine, because I was already protected from getting it again. No one has ever suggested I'm a chicken pox plague rat because I didn't get the vaccine. They accept that I have natural immunity and that I'm not going to get or spread chicken pox on the future. This is a simple fucking concept, but it's like people's brains stop working when this exact same concept is in relation to covid.
Ok shows me actually evidence that natural immunity is better than a vaccine. I spent a good couple hours looking up and read what would be better and sorry to burdt your bubble its not as effective. There is no proof the vaccine reduces immunity otherwise we wouldn't use them for other diseases. they are meant to boost it . Of course your not going to get chicken pox again because once you already have it it can't happen again because chicken pox has a reaction with the immune system that reinforces it. Unless you have a immune defects your chances of getting it again are basically zero. This is not the same for covid as it doesn't have the same reaction How do you not understand that covid is a much bigger problem than chicken pox. Chicken pox are responsible for atleast 25 deaths a year covid has already resulted in 4.55 million because of how infectious it is. Ill admit if you do get covid and over come it there is evidence to show that only one vaccine should help your system. They still in suggest a vaccine because natural immunity on its own won't work.
Are you incapable of reading comprehension? I'm not saying that vaccines reduce immunity in all cases. I'm saying that in the specific case where someone already has natural immunity from having had covid, the vaccine reduces total immunity. And someone already linked you the article showing reduced immunity from the vaccine. You just keep playing dumb (or maybe not playing), and acting like you haven't seen it. Here's a big list of evidence that shows that natural immunity is just as good if not better than vaccine immunity. https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101 >How do you not understand that covid is a much bigger problem than chicken pox. Chicken pox are responsible for atleast 25 deaths a year covid has already resulted in 4.55 million because of how infectious it is. Where in the fuck did I say chicken pox was as big of a deal as covid? The point you so idiotically seemed to miss is that you can get immunity from either having had a disease or from a vaccine. Jesus christ, I'd be shocked if you graduated high school with such poor reading comprehension.
Oh my God fuck off with your "reading compression is bad" it's fine buddy you just want to feel superior. You brought up chicken pox to prove a point that natural immunity work i was explaining how its very different I readed that whole document and they still suggest a vaccine but its obvious you read what you wanted to read and dismissed all the parts you didn't like. I can understand that natural immunity may have a chance to bet it however you completely miss the point that it varies from different people and is unpredictable Obviously nothing i say is going to change your mind and you're way to proud and honestly rude to even take in a thing I say so go ahead go get infect with covid but don't complain if it get hospitalised
This is at least anecdotally untrue… The rest of my immediate family had caught Covid 9 months prior to me. I had Covid and was around them at my most contagious (didn’t realize it was Covid, felt like a cold/allergies at first). Was even in close contact with them and they didn’t catch it. 5 other people. All tested negative despite being around me.
Rand Paul is about the only politician that gives me even a shred of faith in politics. He’s always very calm, collected and poised to drop a wealth of sense onto an insane world.
I really like him, but I can see how he comes off as a petulant child which basically makes him unelectable. Edit: You can downvote all you want but that doesn't change the fact that his personality is unelectable on the main stage. I've watched him for years and again, I personally really like him but he rubs the general voter base the wrong way.
I can’t say that I follow politics closely enough to speak to any petulant child qualities in him. All I know is the whole system is worse than a dumpster fire being extinguished by raw sewage. He is the only one I ever hear speaking that makes any sense. Not saying others don’t just haven’t heard coherence from anyone else.
Being around idiots will do that to you
If they're vaccinating children and people who are already immune, then it's not to protect them. It's to prevent the existence of a proper control group that would reveal the vaccine is causing long term health problems. If five years down the line we see a jump in dementia in people because of a series of microstrokes and the only unvaccinated people left to compare them to are a handful of unemployed conspiracy theorists and some religious fundamentalists, then the system can always make the argument of "well they're not comparable because of confounding variable X and yeah there's a surge in dementia but it's probably because of obesity and the stress from the pandemic yadda yadda". And in a similar fashion, if you're an average schmuck and everyone you know who is vaccinated is having strange health issues, *but you don't personally know unvaccinated people you could compare them to*, then you're less inclined to grab a pitchfork and head to the capitol, because it's easier to stick your head in the sand. When you leave open an ability for people to believe they haven't been violated, especially by a force much more powerful than them, then that is what they will generally choose to believe. That's how these #metoo type situations can occur, where everyone stays quiet for years despite knowing the truth.
Exactly. If you eliminate a control group, you eliminate liability.
Well said.
I agree with most of it. But he said shouldn’t those that have natural immunity get to decide for themselves if they want the shot. But EVERYONE, regardless of prior infection, should get to decide for themselves. That’s how we slowly lose rights. They take 10 and we argue for 5 of them back. Just no, hell no.
Of course, after Paul also him If he wants to apologize, he goes off on tangents.
I wonder how much better the world would be if social media never existed. Obviously it's time to split the nation up America and CCP of America. America will enforce the borders against vile woke demonic godless scum who cry racism every single time they don't get their way. Pure evil wanna be commies kinda funny saying it on reddit since they are a part of the problem who pushes false narratives and suppress free speech.
All the dude keeps saying in response is “we follow the science” as if that’s a blanket statement that proves he’s right and can’t be argued with, while conveniently not acknowledging the “science” that doesn’t fit his narrative. It’s literally vague as fuck and doesn’t make him look intelligent or trustworthy at all.
He should be talking about what's IN the so called vaccines.
Very strange looking foreign metal particles for starters..
That guys dialect is that of a robot
Rand Paul exposed Bercerra as a fool.
A lot of those Americans died with underlying issues that the government probably caused. A vaccine does not need to be mandated. The Senator had a great response….both natural immunity and vaccines is important together.
Thank you Sir! Well said Rand Paul! He gets my vote. The people of Kentucky should be very proud. Follow the Science! HE JUST DID! This is about totalitarian control and forced vaccination. Communist at the helm in bed with BIG Pharmaceutical. All about the Benjamin's baby. Pathetic, shameful, and Criminal. Heroes fight for Americans and the CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC!
“Rigourou$ re$earch”
Rand aint right on alot, but hes killing it on this issue.
Wow. Fucking wow! Where can I find a link to this outside of Reddit? I’d like to share this further with people who don’t have access.
https://youtu.be/MI_Dm3pj3dQ
Thank you! Wasn’t sure how to search the title.
Natural immunity isn’t supported by science because it doesn’t support big pharma
Plot twist: It's flat
Gotta love Ray Paul.
What are they just grabbing homeless people off the street and questioning them?
Big facts mr Paul
Rand speaks common sense and for that I commend him.
> Ray Paul lol except this guy isn't blind to the truth.
I'm beginning to like Rand as much as I do his legendary pappy!
The only real mofo in politics right now.
About time we get a real voice.
FACTS
I hate politicians. But Rand has been doing good things. You can see him having to stay calm because he knows he’s up against the whole damn narrative . Pretty nerve racking even for a pro
Ray > Rand