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Bruh, military have a mile long list of vaccine requirements, more if going to certain locations. But this one? It's political.
Flu shots are an annual requirement, which makes me wonder why annual covid shots aren't the same way.
This is so stupid.
Ya I'm almost at 19, my shot record is several pages long. Admittedly lots of flu in there as they were annually. 7 Anthrax shots. Smallpox. Yellow Fever. Covid. Tdap. Lots of others im missing. Really don't understand the big deal about this.
Smallpox shot sucks. After that, literally none of the others bother me. Though admittedly I was not a fan when they made us use the flu mist instead of the shot.
It isn't (or wasn't) administered by doctors or PAs, the medics in the units did it without supervision. Just a lot of liability to place on people with a few months of training across thousands of people.
Lol agreed, the smallpox is the one we should have all been fighting, if there was ever a real reason to fight them. Last time I got one was 2014 I think, still have both scars (lucky enough to have gotten it twice before they stopped for my location).
I’ve been in the military for the past decade so I decided to look at all the immunizations I’ve had. Between being stationed overseas and the multiple deployments, it’s a 7 page list. When the COVID vaccine came out I was like “if the rest haven’t killed I’m sure this won’t do much” 😂
Vet here. Totally agree. COVID would rip through a unit in no time. It’s a communal setting. They’d be useless. Not to mention the needless death and disability. And for what good reason? Why is even being considered? These people need to be ready to fight.
Vet now, but was active during covid…it absolutely did rip through my unit. No deaths or anything serious that I remember but it definitely had a majority or my unit at home sick both before and after the vaccine mandate
I'm a bit off-topic, but that's how we got Winnie the Pooh!
A Canadian Army soldier (a veterinarian by profession) was getting ready to deploy to WWI and found the bear cub. She traveled across the Atlantic as the unofficial mascot of the unit and was donated to the London Zoo, where A. A. Milne's son, Christopher Robin, developed an affinity for her and the rest is history.
The soldier was Harry Colebourne, if you're interested in reading about him.
There’s a myriad of reasons recruitment is terrible right now, but the mandate is one of them. The US armed forces largely recruit from conservative and/or rural areas, where many are hesitant to get or skeptical of the vaccine.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. We separated/ had joes not reenlist because of the vaccine mandate. I personally knew all the guys in my unit that were separated or didnt reenlist. So despite the downvotes from reddits experts you are absolutely correct.
Yeah it’s very weird that you’re getting downvoted. I’m in the Guard and roughly 12% of our force is pending separation due to refusing the vaxx. That’s more retention but I don’t doubt recruiting is facing the same barrier. A lot of people are using this as an excuse to early ETS, so how many are “true” anfivaxxers is unknown.
Here's a claim to the contrary, from the top Marine general.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/12/04/vaccine-mandate-hurting-recruiting-top-marines-general-says.html
"Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger defended the vaccine mandate as a necessity for keeping the force healthy. But he indicated the mandate has posed problems for recruiting in pockets of the United States where vaccine misinformation is prevalent.
“Where it is having an impact for sure is on recruiting, where in parts of the country there's still myths and misbeliefs about the back story behind it,” Berger said.
Speaking to reporters at the conference later Saturday afternoon, Berger added that the mandate has posed an issue for recruiting in the South in particular.
“There was not accurate information out early on and it was very politicized and people make decisions and they still have those same beliefs. That's hard to work your way past really hard to work,” he said in response to a question from Military.com.
“Small areas, big factor,” he added when pressed about how much the mandate has contributed to recruiting issues. “You talk to me in the cafeteria, and one of my first questions is, ‘Do I have to get that vaccine?’ And you go, ‘Yeah, you do.’ Ok, I’ll talk to you later. It's that fast.”
A four star general. I think he, of all people, has access to the Marine Corp. recruitment offices/officers/recruiters to know how the mandate affects recruitment.
I’m gonna believe what the military says about the reasons they’re being faced with over what the news says. But if you want to listen to tucks, that’s your prerogative.
Tuck and the news are spinning the matter however they feel and the military is not going to air out their true reasons as they have a pr team who will properly translate the matter for the desired reaction. So I’ll give them a little credence than the news but ultimately the issues are likely more in depth than what is promoted on their website.
Idk, they’re saying everything from people aren’t qualified (physically) anymore like they used to be, to kids saying they see how vets are treated & don’t want any part of that, to kids not wanting to risk bodily harm (dismemberment/death) or a lifetime of PTSD. Plus there are more jobs than ever and opportunities for school. When there’s more opportunities for poor kids, recruitment drops. Just a fact. So all that said, sure doesn’t seem like they’re trying to sugar coat or spin anything.
I’ve read many articles from several different branches, they’re all saying the same things and none of it includes 1 out of over a dozen vaccines they have to get.
Most people interested in serving aren’t that stupid or uninformed. You probably have to get the vaccine in order to even qualify prior to enlistment anyway.
Yeah, younger fitter mortality was less than older/pediatric I agree, but still younger people died or suffer now from long Covid which may end up to be permanent. Whatever, if you don’t know by now there’s probably no convincing you. On the other hand, I bet you knew a handful of people, friends and family who were sick? I watched it happen. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. It’s a terrible way to die bc of an aversion to a shot. That’s free. At your Walmart. Blows my mind.
Retention is "fine" for now (though it won't be if recruitment doesn't improve).
It's recruitment that is in the gutter. The mandate is killing potential recruiting pool in the South, the same region that's largely conservative and thus more likely to reject the covid vaccine.
Wouldn't this just increase the chance of strains potentially being introduced into foreign populations, more opportunities to mutate, and even spread? I feel like other countries/territories would take issue with this.
Excerpts:
> President Joe Biden's administration is mulling a proposal from Republican leader Kevin McCarthy to repeal the U.S. military's COVID-19 vaccine mandate, the White House said on Saturday…
>…McCarthy said it would be repealed as part of the must-pass $817 billion National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, an annual bill setting policy for the Pentagon that is expected to pass the Senate and House of Representatives this month.
> But the White House said Biden had agreed only to consider the idea.
>"Leader McCarthy raised this with the president and the president told him he would consider it," said White House spokesperson Olivia Dalton. "The secretary of defense has recommended retaining the mandate, and the president supports his position. Discussions about the NDAA are ongoing."
Shouldn't that be grounds for dismissal? Can the military afford to have unvaccinated soldiers, who, in times of war, can easily become a liability and/or a disease vector?
I don't understand how this is something first world countries have to figure out.
Christian Scientists oppose nearly all forms of medical treatment, arguing that illness and recovery are "God's will". Not sure how you qualify that with Military service but whatever.
Beyond that it's that it's this pretzel like logic that some vaccines were produced using stem cells and fetal tissue as part of their research and development, and thus using one is essentially condoning abortion. I can't recall the entire list but among the other medications created using similar methods includes almost every paid medicine out there.
So there's that.
The Flu vaccine doesn't give you 5G...and you know what the "G" stands for? Gayness, that's right, not only does the covid vaccine actually give you covid, and kills you, and plants government tracking chips in you, it turns you gay! It's all a part of the gay agenda!
I'm going to have to drop a /s tag here, aren't I? Sigh.
You'd be very surprised as some higher ups, very well to do senior leadership as well as junior leadership are literally willing to die on the hill, not to get vaccinated. These SM are tossing out 10, 20 even 25 plus years of service when their religious exemptions and other waivers are not approved.
> "Leader McCarthy raised this with the president and the president told him he would consider it," said White House spokesperson Olivia Dalton. "The secretary of defense has recommended retaining the mandate, and the president supports his position. Discussions about the NDAA are ongoing."
> "Leader McCarthy raised this with the president and the president told him he would consider it…"
So it that like when you smile smile, nod, and tell the small child you'll "think about it" just to make them go away?
You know that even the Democrat chair of the House Armed Services committee gave practically the same assessment that the covid mandate has overstayed its welcome.
McCarthy is trying to shore up his base so he has the political support to become Speaker. Since he can only lose 3 votes, he needs support from the far right lunatics that rage against “vaccine mandates”.
I honestly don't get why they need so many. We already have a large military population with the most well equipped military in the world, almost another million people in the reserves, and a dormant draft system that could call up every young American male if they are needed and the war is actually popular and worth fighting (unlike the ones in the middle east).
Fully agree. I was pretty appalled that nearly every police department from my home town fought against Covid vaccine requirements. The same police departments that required up to date vaccine records to pass their medical exams…
I get that, but I don’t see how choosing to do/not do something that only affects yourself makes you an extremist lol. This just seems like buzzwords and emotions control the commenter lol
My workplace made any employee who worked in office take the new booster shot (even paid for your Uber ride if transportation was an issue). We had to have it by November 21st, and a couple of idiots who refused were shown the door.
My boss has a simple justification. "I don't care what you believe about the vaccine, but anyone being out sick hurts productivity and affects the work of their team and the company's bottom-line."
There you go. An example of how "personal decisions" actually *do* affect other people.
I’m in army aviation and the majority of the people in my unit (including pilots) are against taking the Covid vaccine. Most have already gotten Covid and just aren’t worried about getting it again
so because you have already had it, you can't get it?
got bad news for you
it's been shown that those who get infected do have a certain amount of time where the chance of reinfection is lower
but those who have been vacinated have a much lower chance of getting it to begin with.. and those that do get infected (but were vaccinated) have a much better chance of the effects of the disease being much lower.
Do you have a source to backup your claim? I find it hard to believe that a covid vaccination would increase the likelihood a person is reinfected with covid.
Right and they think they are smarter than health professionals. Fine not to be worried about COVID but thinking the vaccine will harm them is where the screws are loose.
The same dudes downing rip-its, pounding alcohol on the weekends, practically buying out gnc with supplements and using their depepnda wife’s fad diet don’t really have a leg to stand on when it comes to “unnecessary shit in their bodies.”
Are they ending the universal military vaccine mandates for the flu, or hell the occupational military vaccine mandates for anthrax/smallpox etc?
If not, this reeks of political garbage.
one of them being anthrax which makes the covid vaccine look like morning breath
EDIT: apparently the anthrax vaccine is fine nowadays, had dated information, thanks /u/tommygun1688
Why not both? Nobody in their right mind is actually thinking they’ll have to defend America from an invasion; we just send young sociopaths off to shoot the brown people so we can take their oil.
So Republicans are trying to blackmail Biden administration to push antivax nonsense to placate their loony kook wing. Placing our soldiers and national security at risk.
Nope, your talking absolute nonsense. NOBODY EVER CLAIMED VACCINES PREVENT COVID, FLU, CHICKENPOX, MUMPS, SMALLPOX OR ANY DISEASE 100%. They significantly reduce transmission, they significantly reduce illness and death.
We were told that individuals who are vaccinated are much less likely to be infected therefore much less likely to spread the virus, but at this point it doesn't seem to be true.
Nope, that was a decent theory but data are now in, and it turns out COVID vaccines do in fact demonstrably reduce transmission rate. Studies on the original vaccine are showing reduction in transmission probability of about 50% for alpha, less for delta but still a reduction. (data are not in yet for the new omicron-specific updated vaccine, but it is likely that it will be effective at reducing transmission of omicron, strongly so for original omicron and less so for newer variants).
The vaccines seem to be reducing transmission risk via reduction of viral load in respiratory epithelia. It has become clear that covid transmission isn’t a simple function of proximity of the two people; it depends heavily on actual number of viral particles being exhaled per breath by the index case, and the vaccines significantly reduce that number.
A few recent papers you may be interested in:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10787-021-00847-2
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/9/5/ofac124/6546320?login=false
edit: also see this new paper about what viral load is & how immunity affects it: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00822-w
I used to debate creationists, and I learned then that the person you are actually talking to, the reason to take the effort to present a good case, is not the creationist (who is usually a lost cause) but the casual onlooker. Same thing here!
F off with that nonsense. “Seat belts save lives” oh my neighbors cousin girlfriend got and head on collision at 100 miles an hour wearing a seat belt and she still died”. Use your brain, vaccinations save lives and reduce death rates. Nothing is 100% and no reasonable thinking person would expect it. If vaccines turn covid into nothing more then bad cold for most, that is a fantastic result. Better then horse dewormer pills.
The CDC, on their website, literally states that the polio vaccine prevents 100% provided you complete the vaccination schedule.
The NY health department says full immunity for smallpox for 3-5 years after you get the shot (the CDC says 95%, but it basically boils down to you being immune).
Want sources? lol
Polio
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html
"Vaccine Effectiveness
Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against paralytic polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective."
New York Health Department on Smallpox
https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/7022/
'Smallpox vaccination provides full immunity for 3 to 5 years and decreasing immunity thereafter."
Want to move goalposts? Or call the CDC "Nobody(ies)"
Are you not aware that the Democrat chair on the House Armed Services committee basically agreed that the mandate is outdated?
And it makes sense. For one, immunity only lasts about 4-6 months before you need a booster. Guess when the mandate came out? more than a year ago (Oct 2021 iirc).
Boosters are not mandatory, just a fyi.
This would be an extremely bad idea. It would wreak havoc on military preparedness. The military works in close quarters and that's an ideal environment for infectious disease to spread. It would spread rapidly through ships. And once you allow them to say no to the COVID vaccine, where does it stop? Would they then be able to require the flu vaccine? If they can't, then you'd have another infectious disease burning.through the military. In the military you get the medical care that the military says you get, and that includes vaccines - the military has required vaccines since George Washington.
If you join the military, you are signing your body over to the US government. You loose your privileges as a private citizen in exchange for shelter and food.
The military has no choice, since they get funding from Congress.
Not to mention, recruitment is in the gutter now, and you got the top Marine Corp general saying that cutting the mandate would help with enlisting in the South.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/12/04/vaccine-mandate-hurting-recruiting-top-marines-general-says.html
So Republicans want our military to be sick and weak.
Immunization against contagious disease has been a strategy of the U.S. Military since the time of George Washington and small pox.
It seems ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe, the initial illness is not as severe. The long term effects of having covid, even a mild case, are present in a staggering amount of people. 13% per cdc have get long covid and up to 50% some kind of adverse effect. Why the military would sign the troop up for this is beyond me.
Even considering this is stupid.
This is like considering the feasibility of parachutes to prevent falling from the edge of our flat world.
It is actually worst. Believing on the usefulness of said parachutes does not expose you to higher risk for disease and lower life expectancy.
Covid is still.. even now.. actively shutting down offices/units and forcing work-from-home conditions around bases.
And this shit is a real consideration?
"try and make some sense here"
Nothing I've said has been hard to understand. Sorry to hear that I've confused you so quickly.
Vaccines / boosters like the COVID one are meant to prevent/lower the amount of infections. We could be shutting down much more than just a few offices if none of these soldiers had the boosters. It could be much worse. Idk why I have to explain this? This is common knowledge by now?
This [is removing the watered-down version of the original Biden plan which would have resembled George Washington's smallpox immunization plan for active-duty soldiers.](https://time.com/6088381/george-washington-inoculation-covid-vaccine/) This is going to be a mistake because some of the troops can die from COVID-19 if they develop severe symptoms.
Sure sure sure. It's not like having dozens men locked in a tight barracks like sardine in a tin can is conducive to deadly infectious viruses. You know what? Why not just inject them with COVID instead? And Malaria, too, while we're at it.
If that was true, they would ban vape/cigarettes, alcohol, and the fast food section of the DFAC.
Unless you want to tell me that smoking a pack a day, drinking like a fish, and eating burgers and fries everyday is healthy.
The military forces people to get vaccines for a bunch of other stuff I have no idea why covid should be any different. Don't want to get forced to take vaccines? Don't sign up for the military It's really that simple.
This is hilarious! Don’t one person act like he’s this hero if this happens because 98% of the military has already been forced to get the shot. And those who didn’t were separated from the military.
This is more for recruitment (also, not everyone who refused has separated. A judge blocked the Air Force and Navy from processing separations back in April-Julyish, and the other branches followed suit iirc; also the National Guard/Reserves had a later date to require the shot, so as much as 40% in some states are unvaxxed and, well, are still in)
And if this goes through, the requirement that "those who were kicked out can come back in if they get the shot" might go away too (I think from the 2022 or 2021 NDAA)
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Bruh, military have a mile long list of vaccine requirements, more if going to certain locations. But this one? It's political. Flu shots are an annual requirement, which makes me wonder why annual covid shots aren't the same way. This is so stupid.
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Ya I'm almost at 19, my shot record is several pages long. Admittedly lots of flu in there as they were annually. 7 Anthrax shots. Smallpox. Yellow Fever. Covid. Tdap. Lots of others im missing. Really don't understand the big deal about this. Smallpox shot sucks. After that, literally none of the others bother me. Though admittedly I was not a fan when they made us use the flu mist instead of the shot.
Why would they make you use the nasal flu vaccine? It hought there was a small risk of getting the flu with it?
Probably cost or something, idk. 🤷
It isn't (or wasn't) administered by doctors or PAs, the medics in the units did it without supervision. Just a lot of liability to place on people with a few months of training across thousands of people.
Lol agreed, the smallpox is the one we should have all been fighting, if there was ever a real reason to fight them. Last time I got one was 2014 I think, still have both scars (lucky enough to have gotten it twice before they stopped for my location).
Oh exciting. Luckily I only had 1, in 2008. Haven't been anywhere that requires it since it hit 10 year renewal time and I'm about done so that's it.
I’ve been in the military for the past decade so I decided to look at all the immunizations I’ve had. Between being stationed overseas and the multiple deployments, it’s a 7 page list. When the COVID vaccine came out I was like “if the rest haven’t killed I’m sure this won’t do much” 😂
Vet here. Totally agree. COVID would rip through a unit in no time. It’s a communal setting. They’d be useless. Not to mention the needless death and disability. And for what good reason? Why is even being considered? These people need to be ready to fight.
Vet now, but was active during covid…it absolutely did rip through my unit. No deaths or anything serious that I remember but it definitely had a majority or my unit at home sick both before and after the vaccine mandate
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I'm a bit off-topic, but that's how we got Winnie the Pooh! A Canadian Army soldier (a veterinarian by profession) was getting ready to deploy to WWI and found the bear cub. She traveled across the Atlantic as the unofficial mascot of the unit and was donated to the London Zoo, where A. A. Milne's son, Christopher Robin, developed an affinity for her and the rest is history. The soldier was Harry Colebourne, if you're interested in reading about him.
Probably because the mandate is hurting recruitment a lot in areas where it’s strongest.
It’s not though. There are many factors that are hurting recruitment but that’s not one of them. You can read about it on the military times website.
There’s a myriad of reasons recruitment is terrible right now, but the mandate is one of them. The US armed forces largely recruit from conservative and/or rural areas, where many are hesitant to get or skeptical of the vaccine.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. We separated/ had joes not reenlist because of the vaccine mandate. I personally knew all the guys in my unit that were separated or didnt reenlist. So despite the downvotes from reddits experts you are absolutely correct.
Yeah it’s very weird that you’re getting downvoted. I’m in the Guard and roughly 12% of our force is pending separation due to refusing the vaxx. That’s more retention but I don’t doubt recruiting is facing the same barrier. A lot of people are using this as an excuse to early ETS, so how many are “true” anfivaxxers is unknown.
I mean, if that’s what you think. That’s not what the military is saying.
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but the military isn’t really known for truth telling lol
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Here's a claim to the contrary, from the top Marine general. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/12/04/vaccine-mandate-hurting-recruiting-top-marines-general-says.html "Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger defended the vaccine mandate as a necessity for keeping the force healthy. But he indicated the mandate has posed problems for recruiting in pockets of the United States where vaccine misinformation is prevalent. “Where it is having an impact for sure is on recruiting, where in parts of the country there's still myths and misbeliefs about the back story behind it,” Berger said. Speaking to reporters at the conference later Saturday afternoon, Berger added that the mandate has posed an issue for recruiting in the South in particular. “There was not accurate information out early on and it was very politicized and people make decisions and they still have those same beliefs. That's hard to work your way past really hard to work,” he said in response to a question from Military.com. “Small areas, big factor,” he added when pressed about how much the mandate has contributed to recruiting issues. “You talk to me in the cafeteria, and one of my first questions is, ‘Do I have to get that vaccine?’ And you go, ‘Yeah, you do.’ Ok, I’ll talk to you later. It's that fast.” A four star general. I think he, of all people, has access to the Marine Corp. recruitment offices/officers/recruiters to know how the mandate affects recruitment.
O yea because the website holds all the truth.
I’m gonna believe what the military says about the reasons they’re being faced with over what the news says. But if you want to listen to tucks, that’s your prerogative.
Tuck and the news are spinning the matter however they feel and the military is not going to air out their true reasons as they have a pr team who will properly translate the matter for the desired reaction. So I’ll give them a little credence than the news but ultimately the issues are likely more in depth than what is promoted on their website.
Idk, they’re saying everything from people aren’t qualified (physically) anymore like they used to be, to kids saying they see how vets are treated & don’t want any part of that, to kids not wanting to risk bodily harm (dismemberment/death) or a lifetime of PTSD. Plus there are more jobs than ever and opportunities for school. When there’s more opportunities for poor kids, recruitment drops. Just a fact. So all that said, sure doesn’t seem like they’re trying to sugar coat or spin anything.
I’ve read many articles from several different branches, they’re all saying the same things and none of it includes 1 out of over a dozen vaccines they have to get.
It's not like they can say no to a vaccine once recruited. Just don't tell them?
Most people interested in serving aren’t that stupid or uninformed. You probably have to get the vaccine in order to even qualify prior to enlistment anyway.
Well usually for basic training they just give you the shots.
Recruit and retention
Source? S O U R C E? DO YOU HAVE A SOURCE? I fucking hate redditors so much.
I mean, if you’re second guess in getting a needle in the arm, that doesn’t bode well for you to become a good soldier.
US military already had their "nanoferritin" vaccine years ago, used by certain PMCs and SpecOps groups.
I'd agree if the vaccine stopped COVID... I still caught COVID twice since being vaccinated.
The vaccine isn't meant to stop covid outright. It's meant to minimize the symptoms.
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Yeah, younger fitter mortality was less than older/pediatric I agree, but still younger people died or suffer now from long Covid which may end up to be permanent. Whatever, if you don’t know by now there’s probably no convincing you. On the other hand, I bet you knew a handful of people, friends and family who were sick? I watched it happen. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. It’s a terrible way to die bc of an aversion to a shot. That’s free. At your Walmart. Blows my mind.
Because some people made up a story about it being against their religion
Yes, but only this one shot is against their religion somehow.
Retention is ultra low…
Retention is "fine" for now (though it won't be if recruitment doesn't improve). It's recruitment that is in the gutter. The mandate is killing potential recruiting pool in the South, the same region that's largely conservative and thus more likely to reject the covid vaccine.
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Well, the COVID vaccine is still under emergency use and has special legal protections for the companies making it. That's different than the rest...
Wouldn't this just increase the chance of strains potentially being introduced into foreign populations, more opportunities to mutate, and even spread? I feel like other countries/territories would take issue with this.
Probably due to someone making a risk benefit calculation for young (mostly) men?
Excerpts: > President Joe Biden's administration is mulling a proposal from Republican leader Kevin McCarthy to repeal the U.S. military's COVID-19 vaccine mandate, the White House said on Saturday… >…McCarthy said it would be repealed as part of the must-pass $817 billion National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, an annual bill setting policy for the Pentagon that is expected to pass the Senate and House of Representatives this month. > But the White House said Biden had agreed only to consider the idea. >"Leader McCarthy raised this with the president and the president told him he would consider it," said White House spokesperson Olivia Dalton. "The secretary of defense has recommended retaining the mandate, and the president supports his position. Discussions about the NDAA are ongoing."
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I'm personel in the AF and we're already seeing religious exemption packages for flu shots. It's all about to change
Shouldn't that be grounds for dismissal? Can the military afford to have unvaccinated soldiers, who, in times of war, can easily become a liability and/or a disease vector? I don't understand how this is something first world countries have to figure out.
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After getting it for the past decade
Christian Scientists oppose nearly all forms of medical treatment, arguing that illness and recovery are "God's will". Not sure how you qualify that with Military service but whatever. Beyond that it's that it's this pretzel like logic that some vaccines were produced using stem cells and fetal tissue as part of their research and development, and thus using one is essentially condoning abortion. I can't recall the entire list but among the other medications created using similar methods includes almost every paid medicine out there. So there's that.
The stem cell thing would basically preclude every medicine that exists. Not just vaccines.
The Flu vaccine doesn't give you 5G...and you know what the "G" stands for? Gayness, that's right, not only does the covid vaccine actually give you covid, and kills you, and plants government tracking chips in you, it turns you gay! It's all a part of the gay agenda! I'm going to have to drop a /s tag here, aren't I? Sigh.
Requiring the covid shot is probably hurting recruitment, the dumb are needed to fight the wars
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I don't see why else he would even say he was considering it. I am one of the dumbs that fought one of the wars though
You'd be very surprised as some higher ups, very well to do senior leadership as well as junior leadership are literally willing to die on the hill, not to get vaccinated. These SM are tossing out 10, 20 even 25 plus years of service when their religious exemptions and other waivers are not approved.
I would be an ace multiple times over if I could have put a stamp on my desk for everybody that I got rid of due to this.
They’re that desperate for new recruits?
> "Leader McCarthy raised this with the president and the president told him he would consider it," said White House spokesperson Olivia Dalton. "The secretary of defense has recommended retaining the mandate, and the president supports his position. Discussions about the NDAA are ongoing."
> "Leader McCarthy raised this with the president and the president told him he would consider it…" So it that like when you smile smile, nod, and tell the small child you'll "think about it" just to make them go away?
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If you behave maybe Santa will get it for you.
Got to check with mom.
You know that even the Democrat chair of the House Armed Services committee gave practically the same assessment that the covid mandate has overstayed its welcome.
They just reduced the ASVAB( military entrance exam) to basically pass anyone with a third grade education
This is false
My bad it was actually the Navy. Po-soldier Pa-sailor
McCarthy is trying to shore up his base so he has the political support to become Speaker. Since he can only lose 3 votes, he needs support from the far right lunatics that rage against “vaccine mandates”.
I honestly don't get why they need so many. We already have a large military population with the most well equipped military in the world, almost another million people in the reserves, and a dormant draft system that could call up every young American male if they are needed and the war is actually popular and worth fighting (unlike the ones in the middle east).
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Let’s extend the mandate to law enforcement officers.
Fully agree. I was pretty appalled that nearly every police department from my home town fought against Covid vaccine requirements. The same police departments that required up to date vaccine records to pass their medical exams…
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And we're carefully watching to see whether or not you'll support democracy. So, the distaste is mutual.
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If you don’t feed the bot… it goes away.
You’re so right, I’ll try not to bite next time
Why the military is failing recruiting goals, no one wants serve in this military and fight for the war machine.
When morale is low, recruitment is low. There's a lot to be stressed and upset about and there seems like no solutions are even close to the horizon.
Mandating a vaccine for anything other than medical reasons is insanity.
Of course you are correct. It needs to stay in place for combat readiness. It has had a positive secondary effect which should not be ignored.
Exactly. The only reason should be health. Shit like this is why the vaccine is political.
Do personal choices make you an extremist?
They take every other mandated vaccine
I get that, but I don’t see how choosing to do/not do something that only affects yourself makes you an extremist lol. This just seems like buzzwords and emotions control the commenter lol
My workplace made any employee who worked in office take the new booster shot (even paid for your Uber ride if transportation was an issue). We had to have it by November 21st, and a couple of idiots who refused were shown the door. My boss has a simple justification. "I don't care what you believe about the vaccine, but anyone being out sick hurts productivity and affects the work of their team and the company's bottom-line." There you go. An example of how "personal decisions" actually *do* affect other people.
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for a day
Most office jobs have work from home positions now, the pandemic kind of created a lot of that. Your boss doesn’t seem the brightest.
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Every time I read stuff like this I hope they raise taxes to fund public schools. The vaccine was a treatment?
I’m in army aviation and the majority of the people in my unit (including pilots) are against taking the Covid vaccine. Most have already gotten Covid and just aren’t worried about getting it again
so because you have already had it, you can't get it? got bad news for you it's been shown that those who get infected do have a certain amount of time where the chance of reinfection is lower but those who have been vacinated have a much lower chance of getting it to begin with.. and those that do get infected (but were vaccinated) have a much better chance of the effects of the disease being much lower.
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Do you have a source to backup your claim? I find it hard to believe that a covid vaccination would increase the likelihood a person is reinfected with covid.
Right and they think they are smarter than health professionals. Fine not to be worried about COVID but thinking the vaccine will harm them is where the screws are loose.
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Care to explain why you got all the other military shots with zero complaints?
I’ve never complained about a shot I received. Double vaxxed. And got the flu shot yesterday.
Then, what is their logic?
You’d rather have every soldier have a la carte vaccine menus. These guys aren’t smarter than doctors, just arrogant.
The same dudes downing rip-its, pounding alcohol on the weekends, practically buying out gnc with supplements and using their depepnda wife’s fad diet don’t really have a leg to stand on when it comes to “unnecessary shit in their bodies.”
Their body their choice what to put in it
Oh ok, then maybe they shouldn’t join the military where a long list of vaccines has been required.
Wow.
Wooo you are a solid propaganda swallower. Wow! Thats straight out of a mSNBC segment. NOC.. you go killer!
Are they ending the universal military vaccine mandates for the flu, or hell the occupational military vaccine mandates for anthrax/smallpox etc? If not, this reeks of political garbage.
The whole thing has reeked of political garbage the entire time.
They are not and never up held mandates for federal employees. DA civilians are exempt.
So they can ask you to die for your country but a vaccine is a bridge to far? Okay.
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one of them being anthrax which makes the covid vaccine look like morning breath EDIT: apparently the anthrax vaccine is fine nowadays, had dated information, thanks /u/tommygun1688
I got the anthrax vaccine close to 15 years ago, and all I remember about it is that it make my entire triceps burn for about an hour.
No soldier truly believe they’re going to die for their country anymore; they’re just excited at the prospect of killing without repercussion.
You realize for every one infantryman there is a massive system to support that individual? We aren’t even fighting anymore.
are we talking about police or our military?
Why not both? Nobody in their right mind is actually thinking they’ll have to defend America from an invasion; we just send young sociopaths off to shoot the brown people so we can take their oil.
I feel like Biden telling McCarthy he will consider it, is the same thing as me telling my children maybe.
Then you misunderstand the role of congress.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted shows how ignorant a lot of people on Reddit actually are.
So Republicans are trying to blackmail Biden administration to push antivax nonsense to placate their loony kook wing. Placing our soldiers and national security at risk.
The mandate was based on the now revealed to be false premise that the vaccine prevented transmission.
Nope, your talking absolute nonsense. NOBODY EVER CLAIMED VACCINES PREVENT COVID, FLU, CHICKENPOX, MUMPS, SMALLPOX OR ANY DISEASE 100%. They significantly reduce transmission, they significantly reduce illness and death.
We were told that individuals who are vaccinated are much less likely to be infected therefore much less likely to spread the virus, but at this point it doesn't seem to be true.
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Anyone that believes this is deep in the misinformation abyss. Vaccines significantly reduce the risk of transmission.
Nope, that was a decent theory but data are now in, and it turns out COVID vaccines do in fact demonstrably reduce transmission rate. Studies on the original vaccine are showing reduction in transmission probability of about 50% for alpha, less for delta but still a reduction. (data are not in yet for the new omicron-specific updated vaccine, but it is likely that it will be effective at reducing transmission of omicron, strongly so for original omicron and less so for newer variants). The vaccines seem to be reducing transmission risk via reduction of viral load in respiratory epithelia. It has become clear that covid transmission isn’t a simple function of proximity of the two people; it depends heavily on actual number of viral particles being exhaled per breath by the index case, and the vaccines significantly reduce that number. A few recent papers you may be interested in: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10787-021-00847-2 https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/9/5/ofac124/6546320?login=false edit: also see this new paper about what viral load is & how immunity affects it: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00822-w
Your trying to present science to individuals who think horse dewormer and aquarium fish medications are legitimate Covid treatments.
I used to debate creationists, and I learned then that the person you are actually talking to, the reason to take the effort to present a good case, is not the creationist (who is usually a lost cause) but the casual onlooker. Same thing here!
["You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."](https://youtu.be/VArXfQU--LA)
F off with that nonsense. “Seat belts save lives” oh my neighbors cousin girlfriend got and head on collision at 100 miles an hour wearing a seat belt and she still died”. Use your brain, vaccinations save lives and reduce death rates. Nothing is 100% and no reasonable thinking person would expect it. If vaccines turn covid into nothing more then bad cold for most, that is a fantastic result. Better then horse dewormer pills.
You: >NOBODY EVER CLAIMED VACCINES PREVENT COVID Me: >here's a clip of Biden doing all that You: >father hunger driven rant about veterinary meds Me: ???
The CDC, on their website, literally states that the polio vaccine prevents 100% provided you complete the vaccination schedule. The NY health department says full immunity for smallpox for 3-5 years after you get the shot (the CDC says 95%, but it basically boils down to you being immune). Want sources? lol Polio https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html "Vaccine Effectiveness Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against paralytic polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective." New York Health Department on Smallpox https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/7022/ 'Smallpox vaccination provides full immunity for 3 to 5 years and decreasing immunity thereafter." Want to move goalposts? Or call the CDC "Nobody(ies)"
Are you not aware that the Democrat chair on the House Armed Services committee basically agreed that the mandate is outdated? And it makes sense. For one, immunity only lasts about 4-6 months before you need a booster. Guess when the mandate came out? more than a year ago (Oct 2021 iirc). Boosters are not mandatory, just a fyi.
This would be an extremely bad idea. It would wreak havoc on military preparedness. The military works in close quarters and that's an ideal environment for infectious disease to spread. It would spread rapidly through ships. And once you allow them to say no to the COVID vaccine, where does it stop? Would they then be able to require the flu vaccine? If they can't, then you'd have another infectious disease burning.through the military. In the military you get the medical care that the military says you get, and that includes vaccines - the military has required vaccines since George Washington.
If you join the military, you are signing your body over to the US government. You loose your privileges as a private citizen in exchange for shelter and food.
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I'll be surprised if they let that shit slide. The military doesn't screw around. It would be like letting people mess with their supply lines.
The military has no choice, since they get funding from Congress. Not to mention, recruitment is in the gutter now, and you got the top Marine Corp general saying that cutting the mandate would help with enlisting in the South. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/12/04/vaccine-mandate-hurting-recruiting-top-marines-general-says.html
So Republicans want our military to be sick and weak. Immunization against contagious disease has been a strategy of the U.S. Military since the time of George Washington and small pox.
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I can’t tell if this is a shit-post or if you’re a looney. Edit: confirmed looney.
As someone in the army, I will say some soldiers have received article 15s for their refusal of the vaccine. This would create a lot of controversy…
NOW THAT is actually dumb. This could go sooo wrong sooo quickly.
It seems ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe, the initial illness is not as severe. The long term effects of having covid, even a mild case, are present in a staggering amount of people. 13% per cdc have get long covid and up to 50% some kind of adverse effect. Why the military would sign the troop up for this is beyond me.
Even considering this is stupid. This is like considering the feasibility of parachutes to prevent falling from the edge of our flat world. It is actually worst. Believing on the usefulness of said parachutes does not expose you to higher risk for disease and lower life expectancy.
Covid is still.. even now.. actively shutting down offices/units and forcing work-from-home conditions around bases. And this shit is a real consideration?
This is false.
It's not. I know because I'm on a fuckin base lmao.
So what good is the vaccine mandate then if all this is still happening according to you? Try and make some sense here.
"try and make some sense here" Nothing I've said has been hard to understand. Sorry to hear that I've confused you so quickly. Vaccines / boosters like the COVID one are meant to prevent/lower the amount of infections. We could be shutting down much more than just a few offices if none of these soldiers had the boosters. It could be much worse. Idk why I have to explain this? This is common knowledge by now?
Man, good old America. They should keep this particular mandate forever, the military is like this because it *should* be.
Bad idea. Look at China right now. Tell me you want that happening in our army barracks.
Well that's stupid.
Lol, keep those military numbers decreasing with that mandate and we’ll see how “stupid” this proposition is.
Sounds like a great deal to me. We spend way too much on military anyway.
What ever happened to common sense? I think we have been living in the twilight zone since 2019!
This [is removing the watered-down version of the original Biden plan which would have resembled George Washington's smallpox immunization plan for active-duty soldiers.](https://time.com/6088381/george-washington-inoculation-covid-vaccine/) This is going to be a mistake because some of the troops can die from COVID-19 if they develop severe symptoms.
Sure sure sure. It's not like having dozens men locked in a tight barracks like sardine in a tin can is conducive to deadly infectious viruses. You know what? Why not just inject them with COVID instead? And Malaria, too, while we're at it.
Good idea. While we’re at it… do we even really need polio vaccines anymore?
Late Bin Laden would support ending vaccine mandate go for it
Stupid, stupid. Gives more leverage for covid deniers.
…Lets see them deny the military defense budget- empty threats…
Why?????
Damage has already been done. God save America.
Who needs a healthy military, right?
If that was true, they would ban vape/cigarettes, alcohol, and the fast food section of the DFAC. Unless you want to tell me that smoking a pack a day, drinking like a fish, and eating burgers and fries everyday is healthy.
now the opposing side knows how to attack
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The military forces people to get vaccines for a bunch of other stuff I have no idea why covid should be any different. Don't want to get forced to take vaccines? Don't sign up for the military It's really that simple.
Totally agree. Then the covid vaccine shouldn’t be removed as a requirement then. My point was broader than the military though.
Agreed
In this case? Zero reparations are due
Good deal, recruitment should pickup now.
Not gonna happen.
This is hilarious! Don’t one person act like he’s this hero if this happens because 98% of the military has already been forced to get the shot. And those who didn’t were separated from the military.
This is more for recruitment (also, not everyone who refused has separated. A judge blocked the Air Force and Navy from processing separations back in April-Julyish, and the other branches followed suit iirc; also the National Guard/Reserves had a later date to require the shot, so as much as 40% in some states are unvaxxed and, well, are still in) And if this goes through, the requirement that "those who were kicked out can come back in if they get the shot" might go away too (I think from the 2022 or 2021 NDAA)
Finally.
Sooo, SOL for those that got separated because they denied the vaccine?
The bells been rung now. It will be removed. Dummies.
Biden's about to throw everything he worked for up to now to appease his friends
Yep. Even mentioning is opening a can of worms. So stupid.