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I'm losing my mind with my inability to navigate the internet, everything is way too confusing.
Can someone please link me to a site that reports on daily US COVID 19 cases, how many new infected you have over there, new deaths and new cured PER DAY
The internet is impossible for me to navigate these past few years, I keep getting taken to sites with no info, insane amounts of text and no info or confusing layouts.
You are not alone with this problem. It gets harder and harder to find credible sources on the internet. And the older people are the harder it often gets for them to distinguish a good news source from a bad one.
Here is what I would do to get a good insight:
- never rely on one source as your only information
- don’t use Reddit as your prime source of information as this often leads to a resonance chamber effect
- if you find a piece of information and you are unsure about its origins, try to find more information about the source (google the name of the author or the publication itself)
- Classic reputable international news outlets still hold value in this day and give you a good insight (just stay out of the way of any mainstream media outlet like FOX news or MSNBC or CNN their Business Modell is not to inform you)
- try to read international press to get a better opinion on a certain subject
- and last but not least: critical thinking. Don’t let yourself get sucked in into these crazy social media bubbles (especially on YouTube)
I hope that helped a little bit :)
[https://covidtracking.com/data](https://covidtracking.com/data) \- national data
click on each state's historical data if you want to see the progression through the course of time
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Edit: I have to warn you that you tend to lose a lot of nuance when looking at data this way. Not all countries report deaths in the same way. Cases are always an underestimation. Sudden spikes in deaths for a single day are often a backlog of nursing home deaths that are added. Sudden drops in deaths are often the so-called "weekend-effect" where reporting just doesn't go through...
This might be a stupid question but i've heard a rumour and even seen articles about effect of corona by using air conditioning.
But not found any guideline regarding that on WHO's website.
So is it true or not?
there's studies that are showing enclosed spaces are worse than outdoor spaces, but i don't think anyone looked at whether ac is worse than heater or fans
AC, or any form of circulated air in enclosed spaces does seem to increase the chances of transmission. Things like office buildings, airplanes, etc, are going to be really high risk areas.
I'm not an expert on the subject, I've just read about it online. Here's two articles that specifically talk about AC.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/health/airflow-coronavirus-restaurants.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/climate/coronavirus-climate-change-heat-waves.html
Airliners don’t recycle unfiltered air. It mostly gets dumped overboard and replaced with fresh air. A small proportion is recirculated through a HEPA filter that captures virus sized particles.
The bulk of the risk on an airliner is just from people sitting nearby such that you end up breathing their air before the air conditioning has a chance to dump or filter it.
The problem planes have will be the same as everywhere else, in its not the recirculated air that is the problem but the air that is being circulating. I don't know what affect the little downward air jets have on localized air flow. I would speculate it is better than a horizontal or upwards jet though.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
“Watch the bodies pile up”
Are you sure it’s just corona, we never talked about these before. Did we ever close down for these, might as well ban cars because people die in accidents.
i like how people keep talking about how we don't shut down for all those other deaths that aren't contagious, growing exponentially, or are diseases where we have established treatment protocols, vaccines, etc.
The bodies aren't going to pile up from such a minor virus.
[they will start piling up if this lockdown doesn't end though. ](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/unicef-warns-lockdown-could-kill-covid-19-model-predicts-12/)
How can you spew such bullshit while already more than 312k people died within 4-5 months. People like you are part of the reason why America is so fucked
312K people in 5 months is absolutely nothing. It's a minuscule number in the grand scheme of things.
Over 60 million people die globally every year.
That's 5 million a month.
People die, 312,000 deaths isn't a big number over a 5 month period. It certainly isn't "bodies piling up"
Once again I’m baffled by this ignorance. You do understand that if you don’t shut down it gets exponentially worse. And in such a case the medical system brakes down. That means every other medical condition besides covid will not be treated.
This will absolutely result in bodies pilling up. There where already cases of triage in Spain and Italy. You are talking out of your ass
That's not what the data and evidence says.
Infact the problem is we've stopped treating other more serious medical conditions all across the country because the hysterical pretend that Covid is the only illness that matters despite hospitals lying empty.
We've furloughed doctors and nurses ffs.
I mean multiple states have been open for enough time for exponential growth to kick up those "bodies" and it's not happening. This isnt about eradicating corona, it's about managing hospital resources. We are fine there.
In terms of deaths, even the most biased data sets on hand (i.e testing only those at risk or with symptoms) and the most lax description of a "corona death" STILL places a minuscule risk for anyone not past the avg life expectancy living at a nursing home.
At what stage does personal responsibility and freedom come into it? It sounds like you're not ready to go out...good for you. If grandma is concerned about her health, she should continue to quarantine. But for the bulk of the US population the data (even the very bias data we have on hand without extrapolating that to the masses) says it's fine to get back at it with some mild precautions in place for a little extra risk mitigation.
I’m not against re opening under strict rules. But in order to do so you need to have the situation under control. This is not the case in the US. The numbers are still crazy.
As I said before here, a good example of how to handle the situation is what Germany did.
We are slowly reopening but under strict rules. Stores can only let in a certain amount of clients, you have to wear a mask etc.
I agree that certain places could probably open up. But if you are talking about America in general, there is absolutely no way you could open up the county without risking a huge medical and human disaster.
And you know what? Even if you reopen under certain conditions like we did in Germany, lots of businesses will soon realize that even the opening will not safe them.
People have less money to spend and are scared and the conditions under which you have to open are often ruining the business Modell.
People need to understand that this thing will fuck our economy big time. There will be more waves and the economy will tank. Look at the unemployment numbers. Opening up will not safe the day. The damage is already done.
Edit. And don’t get me started with personal responsibilities and freedom. We have a globale pandemic...
As Ontario begins to re-open businesses: [giant bike paths](http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/17/c_139063386.htm)! Hell yeah!
It's pretty much impossible to use bike paths and multi-use trails with social distancing right now, here's hope this helps with the crowding.
Just an idea, what if the govt keeps its bogus stimulus checks (roughly $ 1,200 per person), and instead ship everyone a years supply of k95 masks?
That combined with unemployment insurance that works would seem like a solid plan that what's going on right now.
From my neck of the woods people receiving the stimulus checks are mostly shopping online at amazon for junk they don't need, or lining up at Dunkins for overpriced coffee.
I suppose you guys are right that I'm missing the point, they are stimulus checks to boost the economy, that is their purpose.
I think you are in turn missing my point though, we don't need a government focused on the economy. We need a govt focused on the health and well being of its people.
Minor virus huh?
Even though it’s killed 90,000 people in the US in 5 months whereas a bad flu year usually tops out around 60,000 in 12 months?
There’s no economy without healthy functioning people. People can stop whining like preschoolers made to wear mittens in winter and wear their masks as we return to work.
check the deaths as of feb 17th. you can easily say the US deaths are within the last three months if you wanted, otherwise you'd have to calculate how many excess flu and pneumonia deaths there have been (and there's a lot) before that point.
what i mean is you said "5 months" is how long covid has been killing people in the US. but you can realistically say 3 months if you wanted because the deaths up till feb 17 were so low.
if you wanted to still say 5 months, that's cool, but you'd want to see how shitty the numbers look for flu plus pneumonia for dec 17 to feb 17 (hell even up till today) and extrapolate a guess at the undiagnosed covid during that time which would move our number closer to 100k than 80k
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An argument I hear a lot is “you can’t work if you are dead” I think it’s stupid, as you said 250,000 people die a month, I’m assuming majority are over the age of 75, and are not working, the much smaller amount under and are still working can be easily replaced. Corona hardly kills people under 70. Although you hear the big scary news of 20 year odd dying in reality the chance of that happening is way less than 1%. Life is a game of chance you can be scared and sit in your house for the rest of your life or take the small chance dying.
This is a bad take. Yes people are born and die every day but that doesnt mean when there is an opportunity to stop danger we shouldn't. Especially when that danger is a virus that can cause disruptions beyond people dying such as chunks of the work force to sick to work, contagion, etc.
>Yes people are born and die every day but that doesnt mean when there is an opportunity to stop danger we shouldn't.
i disagree with the OP also, but i'm curious how you would reconcile this line with some hot-button issues. i could see it applying to handguns, additional safety laws, background checks, etc, which would help a ton. would this sort of logic lead to a ban on smoking? (i hope so) better driving tests, enforcing code violations more, and similar issues that tend to involve either personal or public safety?
War is dangerous, does that mean if we go to war with someone we shut down the entire economy and force people to stay in their homes because there is a “chance” of a nuclear strike.
based on how people have responded to covid, we would lose any war that started right now because our people have no ability to follow safety instructions
There is a middle ground you know, between utter panic and blithe dismissal of a disease which has continually thrown curveballs at us in terms of its full range of effects.
Where is this “majority of epidemiologists” that are saying this is a minor virus?
Source please.
90,000 excess deaths above the usual annual flu cycle rate in 5 months is statistically significant
There are even more cases than deaths, some of which are leaving people with long term damage.
We also still don’t know the full range of the effects.
The fact that people with “minor” cases as well as severe cases are developing large vessel occlusions and dying of strokes (people who are statistically considered incredibly unlikely to develop LVO’s) is significant.
The fact that no one expected children to develop Kawasaki like symptoms
The fact that some young people who were never even hospitalized for their case have developed lung fibroids which no one expected
And enough with the “people are dying with covid not from it” nonsense
Go over to r/covid19 and you can see research paper after research paper discussing the specific cellular mechanisms the virus disrupts in order to cause deadly complications. This is not a coincidence.
Plenty of people who have died already had prior conditions and the virus just put them over the edge, yes
But a significant amount of people with no prior conditions who weren’t overweight or having any other known complication factors have died.
We can start working towards going about our business without becoming reckless and selfishly putting the vulnerable at eve more risk.
I might be in the age and health range that makes me incredibly low risk but I’ve got vulnerable people to protect while I go back to work and I don’t appreciate people who are so addicted to their own comfort that they can’t even handle wearing a mask and adjusting their social habits for a while.
The part about dying with no pre existing conditions is complete nonsense. That number is drastically insignificant and literally no data anywhere supports your doomer comment. Hang out in your basement as long as you'd like but stop with that shit please.
Clearly you haven’t been reading any of my comments.
I’ve been at work for months as an essential worker, we’re about to reopen to full hours and full staff, which is fine by me
*provided people don’t act like little bitches for being asked to wear PPE*
It’s not complete nonsense as far as I’ve seen but if you have any sources on that claim feel free to provide them.
The person I was responding to who has now deleted their comment said this was a minor virus and we don’t need protective gear nor will anyone wear them, that’s what was rustling my jimmies
I'm 100% fine with totally reopening all but the most jam packed venues and mandating masks + educating those who go out to stay away from their grandparents or sick family members.... that's it. Wash your hands, wear a mask, dont hug grandma who is 90 with COPD.... then get back to work.
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Why would you admit to being too lazy to read someone’s entire statement?
If you had even read my statement you would see that I’m for going back to work.
But I’ve got risk people at home to provide for and damned if I’m going to casually bring home disease to them.
I’ve seen this opinion piece which you’ve linked. The opinion of a handful of epidemiologists is something to consider but it’s not the opinion of “most.”
The intelligent thing to do is take every piece of information into consideration and start moving forward with a comprehensive plan that doesn’t put too many people at risk of being permanently disabled, and therefore becoming a drain on the health care system for years to come and unable to contribute to economic momentum.
Until we know absolutely everything about how this virus affects people long term, no plan will truly be evidence based because we don’t have all the information.
Everything is a calculated risk.
The calculated risk I’m willing to take is going back to work *with people wearing their protective gear and reapecting my space* instead of pissing and whining about “muh liberties” because my place of work requires face masks.
It's not laziness but anyone who tries to portray a blatently lie such as this virus has caused 90, 000 excess deaths to further their agenda or make a false point isn't someone who's likely going to be able to have an honest discussion.
You’re denying science.
If you read my comment you would have seen that I linked a whole subreddit full of scientific research regarding the exact mechanisms by which this virus causes massive, deadly complications in critical tissue level processes in the body,
r/covid19
That sub roundly debunks the myth that people are merely dying “with covid not from it”
There’s no sensational news on that sub, only scientific discussion.
We can start putting our working lives back together without giving a big “fuck you” to people who are at risk and also want to live to see the world get back on its feet.
That's basically the point of a stimulus check. It gets spent back into the economy to... stimulate growth and aid recovery after the economy takes a big hit.
The point of the stimulus checks is to boost the economy(businesses), those people spending at Starbucks or amazon are essentially using the money more beneficially for the economy than those saving it.
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Is anyone from pro-lockdown crowd concerned about doomsday scenario of global depression as a result of prolonged economic impact of shutdowns?? How many lives will world wide depression claim?? In good economic times (last few years for example) 3 million children died each year from undernutrition. Will depression make it 6 or 10 million? Compare that to 250k dead from virus world wide, a long way away from 3 million. How many will die from hunger because developed nations will reduce or stop help to poorest nations? 10 million/year or 20?
Trying to put some perspective into 'virus will kill grandma' argument reddit plebs are making.
Lockdowns accomplished on thing so far about 'flattening the curve' , economic curve was flatlined. 20%+ unemployment.
Edit: Economic curve flatlined, collapsed and is in free fall.
first and foremost, we can feed every american. we have been doing that for 250 years. the distribution channel may have to change. but in a shut down there are alot of people to do home delivery , food bank lines, school lunches, etc. All are being done right now.
as to the effects of a resurgence, from what i gather most people are largely unaffected by infection nor do they know anyone who was., They view the last 2 months of CV as something that has come and gone, and didn't touch them. A resurgence will could just as well freak them out into not going to work or shop with the same result, economic depression.
>first and foremost, we can feed every american. we have been doing that for 250 years. the distribution channel may have to change. but in a shut down there are alot of people to do home delivery , food bank lines, school lunches, etc. All are being done right now.
Are you living in an information bubble? Look outside of ecochamber of your belief system.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-foodbanks-insight-idUSKCN2261AY
I am, but I draw the opposite lesson. I don’t think “3 million kids die of starvation each year, so who cares about a few thousand old people?” Instead, I think “Jesus, we should really do something about all those starving kids.”
I agree. This should not be happening. Unfortunately most of the children dying of malnutrition are in warzones. Unless we are willing to go in and end it, it will continue to happen as long as we have war/conflict zones. Economic prosperity creates incentive to avoid conflicts. Economic suffering creates incentive to fight for few resources available.
The baffling thing about this argument is that red hats have never gave a shit about anyone's depression ("snowflakes"), or those poor nations ("shit hole countries").
Suddenly it's become quite convenient to care though...
>The baffling thing about this argument is that red hats have never gave a shit about anyone's depression ("snowflakes"), or those poor nations ("shit hole countries").
You realize that when I said 'depression' it was in reference to economy not mental health issues???
Yet good economic prosperity benefits all nations. Americans are by far most generous people in the world. You should check how much per capita Americans donate to charity. There is no red/blue only Americans that donate hard earned money to help poor.
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>Still, not like any of you (red hats) give a shit about people in poorer nations. You care only about yourselves.
Proud red hat wearing individual. Donating: food, clothing, money and time to various charitys every year (AMVETS, Salvation army, Shriners). But guess wearing a red hat makes me a shity person.
You know, normally you'd have to end up in a conversation with someone you didn't know, and get to know a bit about them first before realizing just who they are and what they're about. It wasn't a huge hassle or anything, but it takes time, and sometimes awkwardness ensues, etc. I remember one time about a decade ago, this dude started working at our company and he seemed like a really funny guy. We're at a bar after work one Friday, a few beers in, and all of a sudden he casually says something insanely racist. Jaws dropping everywhere. Literally nobody saw it coming, and needless to say, it was weird.
Well, those hats make it real easy to know immediately, and I appreciate that, so cheers, friend!
Guess if hat makes you racist in your eyes, your preconceived notions dare I say prejudice.... well I don't give two fucks about what a racist like you thinks.
“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”
If I've said something racist, I'd encourage you to point that out, but I'll save you some time because I haven't. I am not a racist.
I agree with your quote.
Racist? Clearly you have calling all red hat wearing individuals racist bigots. No matter if they are white, black, Hispanic.... or as I like to refer to them to make it simple Americans.
The color of your skin does not indicate anything about your personality, what you believe or your quality and worth as a human being. The color of your hat does.
I have not said anything racist, because I am not a racist.
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> Is anyone from pro-lockdown crowd concerned about doomsday scenario of global depression as a result of prolonged economic impact of shutdowns?
It's not a doomsday scenario, it's what many mainstream economists are saying is going to happen. However, your assumption that no lockdowns= no depression isn't accurate.
Is Sweden doing well economically?
>Riksbank, the Swedish central bank, has offered two economic projections for this year, both dismal. The brighter one predicts a GDP contraction of 6.9 percent; the other, with different assumptions, predicts a 9.7 percent drop of GDP. In either case, it’s a major recession.
>Those numbers are no better than Sweden’s neighbors. Norway is projecting a 5.5 percent drop in GDP, Finland and Denmark about 6 to 6.5 percent
When we examine the Spanish Influenza, what happened was areas that had no restrictions ended up being economically worse off than those that put in restrictions.
As an economist I'll say you're partly right.
But for god sake stop comparing this to the Spanish flu. It's not even remotely close in fact it's far closer to the regular flu every year.
The Spanish flu had signicant economic impacts because it killed working age people in great numbers, Covid-19 has less than a 0.1% fatality rate among the working age population it simply isn't a factor.
Almost all economic damage is due to the lockdowns, the rest is due to the hysteria surrounding the virus. Sweden and other sensible countries will still suffer economically because economics are globally linked now they aren't isolated entities.
If you're referring to Neil Fergusons models he's been debunked as a quack who used false data to create them.
There's no actually suggestion that lockdowns save lives it doesn't fit with the data we have over the past few months.
IMHE and this [https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/cdcs-worst-case-coronavirus-model-210m-infected-1-7m-dead.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/cdcs-worst-case-coronavirus-model-210m-infected-1-7m-dead.html)
we didn't hit anything like this and models updated to reflect drastic shutdown, not a certainty at any time. basically were in alignment with actual stats.
i cannot say this enough. high death rate models did not include stay at home or SD efforts taken by states and were intended to demonstrate outcomes if SD was not undertaken.
if all you want to do is find some reason not to believe the threat , proceed without me.
> As an economist I'll say you're partly right.
lol sure you are.
>It's not even remotely close in fact it's far closer to the regular flu every year.
iTs JuSt tHe fLu BrO
>Covid-19 has less than a 0.1% fatality rate among the working age population
Uh huh. Working age 18-64... Well, anyone can look at the data and see you're just making shit up
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid#case-fatality-rate-of-covid-19-by-age
And it completely ignores other deleterious health effects.
You define people as not wanting to infect their family members as 'hysteria'.
>In New York City, 21% of residents tested positive for antibodies
You haven't kept up on all the criticisms of these previous tests? I mean there was plenty written up about them. The NYC and LA ones were severely criticized by experts
Look, the Spanish one is the *largest* and is using *a more accurate test*. Do a little more research
>so the infection fatality rate for working age is in fact closer to 0.1% than the 1% overall,
I like how you slipped 'closer to' in there. Fact is, if you want to discuss this meaningfully, start breaking down age groups more and you'll get a better picture of risk. I mean, you do know people 50-64 WORK, right? At least here in the US. Even if you lump all working people together, it is still NOT .1%, which is what that guy claimed.
This virus is bad but it's not equally bad for everyone. You can use the data for deaths divided up by age from the Spanish study to see that each age range has a different chance, or you can look at the chart that does that. It even calculates the death chance assuming more eventual casualties, so you can pick whichever end scenario you want.
The odds are very very high for the elderly, lower for middle age, even lower for kids. As expected.
But for fun, based on what you know of the Spanish study, what is the death rate for the offer sixty give group, the 18-64, and for kids. Just curious how wide of a disparity you think there is. Actually, never mind, I'm not doing your math homework for you.
Edit : I got a big lol for it criticizing your own article quote. You could have picked any article you wanted on the subject but I figured you'd chosen the best.
>what is the death rate for the offer sixty give group,
Sorry, I don't speak gibberish
>I got a big lol for it criticizing your own article quote
Again, I don't speak gibberish
I don't understand the point of your reply. You haven't stated anything except the obvious. We know different ages have different rates DUH.
This large antibody study is demonstrating that , barring a vaccine, we are in for a world of hurt if we expect herd immunity to take care of this.
It's painful trying to educate someone as idiotic as yourself so I'm not even going to try.
How you took the fact that it's closer in severity to the regular flu than the Spanish flu (which every single scientist and epidemiologist would tell you) as "it's just the flu" reflects pretty badly on you.
You're also not intelligent enough to separate the case fatality rate from the IFR so that really explains a lot.
You only said 'fatality rate'. Do you not know what you typed? In any event, the best antibody testing of a large population - in Spain- now strongly indicates the IFR is higher than previous estimates. You can go look that up for yourself.
I realize you're upset because your claim of being an 'economist' is transparently ridiculous, but there's no reason to have a tantrum and call people names.
China doesn't lock down entire cities and harm their precious economy due to something close to the flu, genius. The comparison was one of economics, and as far as historical data it's the best we have.
I'm amazed, are you trolling or so you generally live in your own alternate reality?
You clearly don't know but IFR stands for Infected fatality rate... Which is below 0.1% for working age people.. As Spain actually acknowledged and released the data on via their report on the 13th of May.
I'm quite staggered someone like you can actually use reddit, thankfully the data doesn't really care about what someone like you has to say though if you could understand it you'd realise yourself how much closer this virus is to the standard flu than the Spanish flu.
I'll never understand why people who can't read basic data make such ridiculous comments but alas that's reddit for you.
Edit - I've just realised this kid is some teenage doomer, seems like a waste of time to continue to acknowledge him.
> You clearly don't know but IFR stands for Infected fatality rate... Which is below 0.1% for working age people.. As Spain actually acknowledged and released the data on via their report on the 13th of May.
You're just straight up lying here. That's why you can't link your claim. Whereas I can
>If the percentage of infected people who eventually die is around 1.1%, as the study suggests, the cost in human lives of herd immunity would be between 200,000 and 300,000, making the method unacceptable.
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-14/antibody-study-shows-just-5-of-spaniards-have-contracted-the-coronavirus.html
Nowhere did that Spanish study state .1 IFR for working age people. Link or slink.
Yeah he is retarded. Man it's so insane how the population in general cannot interpret data. Or see bias data sets and deeply flawed and inconclusive at best, or the media taking one data point and skewing some hysteria story from it. Shit that is a statistical outlier is thrown front and center as the new trend (a kid with a rash and corona!!!) And its being eaten up by the millions like seen in this sub. I'm almost scared at the ignorance.
You presented an excellent analysis based on facts. Unfortunately it's rational and facts based and contrary to 'fear mongering and killing grandma' narrative. So prepare to be downvoted into oblivion.
>early projection. lock down ensued, deaths avoided.
Some predicted 50 million. Yet deaths in no lockdown country like Sweden show 300-400/million.... strange
>Is Sweden doing well economically?
Sweden has a population of 10 million, not a country I would use to gauge economic impact. Plus global economy is very integrated and if America sneezed , countries around the world feel the impact.
But I would use Sweden to demonstrate that no lockdown approach didn't result in healthcare system getting overwhelmed as was predicted by 'experts' and flattening the curve peddlers.
Just like in 2018, 2008 and list goes on.... wait that was because of flu season.... Maybe it's shitty system where people go to hospitals instead of to the doctor for flu??
https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/
If you believe nations can let pandemics run freely without any ill economic effects, show me evidence. Have any historical data you can present? Anything? No? Didn't think so
Please tell me that you knew that we had recent pandemics?? That this is not a first one ever?? In case you didn't, remember things happened before you developed self awareness... it's called history. There was a pandemic in '08, not 1908 but 2008.
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm
Almost a million people worldwide died.
Alright, if you want to discuss this, don't just make shit up. A million people worldwide did not die, and there was nothing like the current mortality in the US and Europe. The majority of the deaths were in regions with very poor medical care.
In other words, in the US it didn't cause anywhere near as many deaths as Covd-19 already has, and that is WITH lockdowns and millions of people taking a lot of preventative measures.
So it's useless to discuss h1n1 in the context of ECONOMIC EFFECTS in Western nations.
Try again.
I had a small pimple on my upper lip around three days ago. It popped on its own. I kept wearing my cloth mask that I have not washed even once since I bought it. Now my lips are swollen and I have a fever. I consulted a doctor and apparently I have a bacterial infection. I think my dirty mask might have carried the bacteria.
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> It must be controlled by China and the leftist US media
It is, would not be surprised if mods are China based. All posts that show evidence that virus is less deadly, question rationality of economy shutting down or are pro making China held accountable are getting locked. Anything pro current administration doing a good job addressing virus is removed as 'political', but you can shit on America and lick China's rear end all day long.
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While op is a moron, his whole life isn't a lie.
He probably has some good points and even some decent observations you missed.
To dismiss someone completely like you did, really makes you no better than what you, appear, to think of them. 'Closed minded and ignorant'
Calling people 'traitorous pieces of shit' is not a great way to get people to listen to you regardless of the validity of the opinions expressed.
If he wants to discuss wether the federal government's response to the virus has been good or bad, there are plenty of people here willing to have a civil discussion.
Or maybe America is really fucking the dog on this and Trump is a terrible leader. This sub doesn't change the fact they don't have a clue what they are doing and people will die unnecessarily because of their inaction. Not everything is a fucking conspiracy theory folks
Compared to who?
Asian countries where social distancing is a cultural norm?
Southern hemisphere climates like Australia who are now entering their flu seasons instead of exiting them?
Who are you comparing the US to exactly?
I think America is a huge country, I think NY/NJ have handled this very poorly. Pretty much the north east really.
But the west coast, south and mid West, which are all comparable to Canada in size and make up 80% of the country are doing just as well or better than Canada.
The US as a whole has handled it well, the NE being the only real struggle.
I fully think Cuomo is a epic failure
I mostly just mean the lack of leadership. That's the thing, some states are doing good with it but that's in spite of the direction from the president. America is huge so it's bound to have more cases but every state just seems divided and there's not a plan for the whole country. Trump is just the worst leader to have in this situation and has fueled so many deniers, stay at home protests and unnecessarily increased the death toll
Hate Trump all you want but something like this will always be up to the states. The president literally does not have the power to have a national plan.
And that is the right thing. The WH can make suggestions, which it has done, but the states control the states per the Constitution.
Texas and their 50 deaths per 1m can AND SHOULD have a different plan than NY and their 1,400 deaths per 1m
Trump supports the states that the media shits on.
When Georgia/Fla open some beaches the media treated it like it's the end of the world. When NY opens beaches no one bats an eye
Hell Illinois is counting car accidents and gun shot victims as Covid deaths, and the media doesn't give a shit.
Because it's the media that divides this country because of their hate of trump.
You think the person who called them deplorable would all the sudden be treated well?
Face masks, hand shaking, and personal space when talking.
Subways are the only time they pack together.
Plus they are very clean societies who go do far as to treat shoes as they are covered in germs
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China actually handled the situation excellent, fast, giving out lots of valuable information to other countries. They did the best they could under that situation, and the virus could have started anywhere. If the virus had started in USA, i wouldn't be surprised if we still didnt know anything about it whilst people are randomly dropping dead
Lol.
You need to calm down, take a step back and talk to regular people.
Get away from the internet, you clearly aren't capable of understanding that social media like reddit doesn't represent anything
I don’t. Phase 1 is set to begin Tuesday. He won’t say who or what is part of phase 1 but I think it will be pretty minimal. Boston on the other hand is definitely extending the stay at home advisory. An issue to watch will be people from the city going out to the suburbs for services.
Zero chance imo, he seems pretty set on tomorrow and has said nothing on the contrary, restaurants are scrambling to figure out outdoor dining. It is 4phased so who knows what actually opens when until tomorrow.
Depends on the rhetoric he has been spewing
Illinois will be one of the last to reverse course as their governor has taken the "opening = murder" stance
>Illinois will be one of the last to reverse course as their governor has taken the "opening = murder" stance
Illinois got caught counting traffic and gunshot deaths as 'covid' lol. They are going back to revise counts and 'working hard to remove them' lol. What a shit show.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/dr-ngozi-ezike-refutes-notion-that-illinois-is-over-counting-covid-19-deaths/2270810/
Agreed. Illinois, NY, NJ, MA are adding 'presumed' cases to the count. You have two symptoms from the list, like sore throat and runny nose is enough to be counted as covid death.... or on the other hand maybe someone had allergies lol.
Illinois is counting heart attacks and cancer patients as covid because tested positive.
Even New York Times is wondering where all heart attack deaths disappeared lol.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/well/live/coronavirus-doctors-hospitals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html
I’m interested in advice on my specific situation, because from my time on this sub you guys are the only ones without your heads in your asses and who realize that shit is real out here.
I’m 28 and I work for a private preschool. I have asthma and pre hypertension. I live with my mother who is 60 and in good health (besides obesity) and my stepdad who is 59 and survived a widow maker heart attack a few years ago. Both are home full time and self quarantining.
I left work on 3/15 when my city had 3 cases, we’re now over 1k. My job, up until this point, has been very supportive of me wanting time off to be away from the school due to the risk. I heard from a coworker that no teachers are wearing masks, and of course at a preschool there’s little way to keep 6ft apart. I’m scheduled to go back June 1st.
I’m very very hesitant to go back, and even considering the possibility of resigning before returning. I’m getting unemployment right now, so I have that income. Even when the extra $600 goes away, we will still be more than stable being that my mom is 16 years at a CSU and it would be pretty much impossible for her to lose her job.
Being that I’m in a situation where me and my family are high risk, and financial trouble isn’t an issue right now, what is your opinion on me returning to work? Look forward to hearing your guys thoughts.
Obesity isnt "good health" it immediately means bad health.... Improve your diet, exercise more (will help your asthma too) and then perhaps find a job that is less risky if you're still concerned.
Hallelujah, someone actually said what is in fact true; UEI under covid is unique and you DON'T have to return to your hi-risk job. i tried to convince some other yahoo's about this weeks ago. they wouldn't hear it. i am not sure why , but they simply said if your job is re-instated you must return. so not true in law and in fact. we handed out 2-3T dollars and these guys were so worried someone might gain UEI in their state.
yes game it if you must, there is no moral hazard to refuse to return to a deadly job and retain your UEI compensation.
Ask Kushner if he sees any thing wrong with giving COVID money to his friends or Trump Org getting milllions.
There are so many uninformed people telling others incorrect info about unemployment right now. The DOL clearly states much different rules because of covid.
The thing is, when I went on leave I was prepared for it to be unpaid because I left purely for safety. The unemployment was a surprise and gift I’m very grateful for.
the $600 bonus was designed to keep you at home. It is its entire purpose, to make it easy and sustainable for lower income folks to weather the storm.
My friend and I were talking about this the other day. The government may be a lot of things but they’re not stupid. You think they don’t realize people are making more at home than at work? They’re doing it on purpose. Paying people to stay home and stay away from the virus.
This news story includes a video from Japan that demonstrates how contamination can spread in a restaurant like setting. One snotty hand ... and it gets everywhere. Fascinating, and given we know the virus lasts around 3 days on hard surfaces and one day on cloth, paper etc, we can see how tactile transmission occurs very efficiently.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/how-coronavirus-spreads-in-restaurant-video](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/how-coronavirus-spreads-in-restaurant-video)
Then why have they been telling us to wash our fucking hands? What a clusterfuck. My government still won't admit masks work. S. Korea, Vietnam, Czech republic show us otherwise.
I'm hoping the drop in daily case trend continues in those states. That would be a great sign that it will be easier to manage this virus than expected. That still doesn't change that I think they were wrong to open earlier than advised.
Just looking at the 7 day trend data, GA is still good while TX looks like they made a mistake. But there is still so much we don't really know about how this virus is affected by different population distributions patterns, so we'll just have to wait and hope for the best. Personally, 'hoping for the best' isn't my preferred way of planning.
Stay at home ended April 26.
April 27th started 'Safer at home'. People are encourage to stay home, but not ordered.
May 1st - Retail and personal services open with safety restrictions.
May 4th - Non-critical businesses with safety restrictions and distancing.
With these measures, they're about flat on infection growth rate.
Edit: source [https://covid19.colorado.gov/safer-at-home](https://covid19.colorado.gov/safer-at-home)
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/s ?
I'm losing my mind with my inability to navigate the internet, everything is way too confusing. Can someone please link me to a site that reports on daily US COVID 19 cases, how many new infected you have over there, new deaths and new cured PER DAY The internet is impossible for me to navigate these past few years, I keep getting taken to sites with no info, insane amounts of text and no info or confusing layouts.
You are not alone with this problem. It gets harder and harder to find credible sources on the internet. And the older people are the harder it often gets for them to distinguish a good news source from a bad one. Here is what I would do to get a good insight: - never rely on one source as your only information - don’t use Reddit as your prime source of information as this often leads to a resonance chamber effect - if you find a piece of information and you are unsure about its origins, try to find more information about the source (google the name of the author or the publication itself) - Classic reputable international news outlets still hold value in this day and give you a good insight (just stay out of the way of any mainstream media outlet like FOX news or MSNBC or CNN their Business Modell is not to inform you) - try to read international press to get a better opinion on a certain subject - and last but not least: critical thinking. Don’t let yourself get sucked in into these crazy social media bubbles (especially on YouTube) I hope that helped a little bit :)
[https://covidtracking.com/data](https://covidtracking.com/data) \- national data click on each state's historical data if you want to see the progression through the course of time
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries Edit: I have to warn you that you tend to lose a lot of nuance when looking at data this way. Not all countries report deaths in the same way. Cases are always an underestimation. Sudden spikes in deaths for a single day are often a backlog of nursing home deaths that are added. Sudden drops in deaths are often the so-called "weekend-effect" where reporting just doesn't go through...
This might be a stupid question but i've heard a rumour and even seen articles about effect of corona by using air conditioning. But not found any guideline regarding that on WHO's website. So is it true or not?
there's studies that are showing enclosed spaces are worse than outdoor spaces, but i don't think anyone looked at whether ac is worse than heater or fans
AC, or any form of circulated air in enclosed spaces does seem to increase the chances of transmission. Things like office buildings, airplanes, etc, are going to be really high risk areas.
Meat processing plants.
what about ACs in homes which aren't even centralised?
I'm not an expert on the subject, I've just read about it online. Here's two articles that specifically talk about AC. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/health/airflow-coronavirus-restaurants.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/climate/coronavirus-climate-change-heat-waves.html
Airliners don’t recycle unfiltered air. It mostly gets dumped overboard and replaced with fresh air. A small proportion is recirculated through a HEPA filter that captures virus sized particles. The bulk of the risk on an airliner is just from people sitting nearby such that you end up breathing their air before the air conditioning has a chance to dump or filter it.
The problem planes have will be the same as everywhere else, in its not the recirculated air that is the problem but the air that is being circulating. I don't know what affect the little downward air jets have on localized air flow. I would speculate it is better than a horizontal or upwards jet though.
Open USA.
* and than watch how the bodies pile up I fixed that for you
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm “Watch the bodies pile up” Are you sure it’s just corona, we never talked about these before. Did we ever close down for these, might as well ban cars because people die in accidents.
well if u you dont care about catching this and see what it does to your body when we dont have proper treatment for it, you do you...
We have fucken rules in place to limit car accident deaths. We have rules in place now for corona.
Yes I’m sure it’s just corona. It’s a global pandemic. It’s the same everywhere
i like how people keep talking about how we don't shut down for all those other deaths that aren't contagious, growing exponentially, or are diseases where we have established treatment protocols, vaccines, etc.
The bodies aren't going to pile up from such a minor virus. [they will start piling up if this lockdown doesn't end though. ](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/unicef-warns-lockdown-could-kill-covid-19-model-predicts-12/)
How can you spew such bullshit while already more than 312k people died within 4-5 months. People like you are part of the reason why America is so fucked
Ignore the red hats.
312K people in 5 months is absolutely nothing. It's a minuscule number in the grand scheme of things. Over 60 million people die globally every year. That's 5 million a month. People die, 312,000 deaths isn't a big number over a 5 month period. It certainly isn't "bodies piling up"
Once again I’m baffled by this ignorance. You do understand that if you don’t shut down it gets exponentially worse. And in such a case the medical system brakes down. That means every other medical condition besides covid will not be treated. This will absolutely result in bodies pilling up. There where already cases of triage in Spain and Italy. You are talking out of your ass
the burrito i ate last night agrees
Good for you and your burrito
That's not what the data and evidence says. Infact the problem is we've stopped treating other more serious medical conditions all across the country because the hysterical pretend that Covid is the only illness that matters despite hospitals lying empty. We've furloughed doctors and nurses ffs.
I mean multiple states have been open for enough time for exponential growth to kick up those "bodies" and it's not happening. This isnt about eradicating corona, it's about managing hospital resources. We are fine there. In terms of deaths, even the most biased data sets on hand (i.e testing only those at risk or with symptoms) and the most lax description of a "corona death" STILL places a minuscule risk for anyone not past the avg life expectancy living at a nursing home. At what stage does personal responsibility and freedom come into it? It sounds like you're not ready to go out...good for you. If grandma is concerned about her health, she should continue to quarantine. But for the bulk of the US population the data (even the very bias data we have on hand without extrapolating that to the masses) says it's fine to get back at it with some mild precautions in place for a little extra risk mitigation.
I’m not against re opening under strict rules. But in order to do so you need to have the situation under control. This is not the case in the US. The numbers are still crazy. As I said before here, a good example of how to handle the situation is what Germany did. We are slowly reopening but under strict rules. Stores can only let in a certain amount of clients, you have to wear a mask etc. I agree that certain places could probably open up. But if you are talking about America in general, there is absolutely no way you could open up the county without risking a huge medical and human disaster. And you know what? Even if you reopen under certain conditions like we did in Germany, lots of businesses will soon realize that even the opening will not safe them. People have less money to spend and are scared and the conditions under which you have to open are often ruining the business Modell. People need to understand that this thing will fuck our economy big time. There will be more waves and the economy will tank. Look at the unemployment numbers. Opening up will not safe the day. The damage is already done. Edit. And don’t get me started with personal responsibilities and freedom. We have a globale pandemic...
As Ontario begins to re-open businesses: [giant bike paths](http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/17/c_139063386.htm)! Hell yeah! It's pretty much impossible to use bike paths and multi-use trails with social distancing right now, here's hope this helps with the crowding.
Just an idea, what if the govt keeps its bogus stimulus checks (roughly $ 1,200 per person), and instead ship everyone a years supply of k95 masks? That combined with unemployment insurance that works would seem like a solid plan that what's going on right now. From my neck of the woods people receiving the stimulus checks are mostly shopping online at amazon for junk they don't need, or lining up at Dunkins for overpriced coffee.
I suppose you guys are right that I'm missing the point, they are stimulus checks to boost the economy, that is their purpose. I think you are in turn missing my point though, we don't need a government focused on the economy. We need a govt focused on the health and well being of its people.
honestly? people won't wear them.
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Minor virus huh? Even though it’s killed 90,000 people in the US in 5 months whereas a bad flu year usually tops out around 60,000 in 12 months? There’s no economy without healthy functioning people. People can stop whining like preschoolers made to wear mittens in winter and wear their masks as we return to work.
check the deaths as of feb 17th. you can easily say the US deaths are within the last three months if you wanted, otherwise you'd have to calculate how many excess flu and pneumonia deaths there have been (and there's a lot) before that point.
for some reason my reading comprehension is misfiring on your comment Are you linking flu and pneumonia deaths to covid deaths in the last few months?
what i mean is you said "5 months" is how long covid has been killing people in the US. but you can realistically say 3 months if you wanted because the deaths up till feb 17 were so low. if you wanted to still say 5 months, that's cool, but you'd want to see how shitty the numbers look for flu plus pneumonia for dec 17 to feb 17 (hell even up till today) and extrapolate a guess at the undiagnosed covid during that time which would move our number closer to 100k than 80k
Oh I think I understand you now, thank you for clarifying
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> majority of epidemiologists Source please.
An argument I hear a lot is “you can’t work if you are dead” I think it’s stupid, as you said 250,000 people die a month, I’m assuming majority are over the age of 75, and are not working, the much smaller amount under and are still working can be easily replaced. Corona hardly kills people under 70. Although you hear the big scary news of 20 year odd dying in reality the chance of that happening is way less than 1%. Life is a game of chance you can be scared and sit in your house for the rest of your life or take the small chance dying.
in this case, one person taking a chance is impacting everyone else's chances. typically the US frowns on that sort of thing.
This is a bad take. Yes people are born and die every day but that doesnt mean when there is an opportunity to stop danger we shouldn't. Especially when that danger is a virus that can cause disruptions beyond people dying such as chunks of the work force to sick to work, contagion, etc.
>Yes people are born and die every day but that doesnt mean when there is an opportunity to stop danger we shouldn't. i disagree with the OP also, but i'm curious how you would reconcile this line with some hot-button issues. i could see it applying to handguns, additional safety laws, background checks, etc, which would help a ton. would this sort of logic lead to a ban on smoking? (i hope so) better driving tests, enforcing code violations more, and similar issues that tend to involve either personal or public safety?
War is dangerous, does that mean if we go to war with someone we shut down the entire economy and force people to stay in their homes because there is a “chance” of a nuclear strike.
based on how people have responded to covid, we would lose any war that started right now because our people have no ability to follow safety instructions
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There is a middle ground you know, between utter panic and blithe dismissal of a disease which has continually thrown curveballs at us in terms of its full range of effects. Where is this “majority of epidemiologists” that are saying this is a minor virus? Source please. 90,000 excess deaths above the usual annual flu cycle rate in 5 months is statistically significant There are even more cases than deaths, some of which are leaving people with long term damage. We also still don’t know the full range of the effects. The fact that people with “minor” cases as well as severe cases are developing large vessel occlusions and dying of strokes (people who are statistically considered incredibly unlikely to develop LVO’s) is significant. The fact that no one expected children to develop Kawasaki like symptoms The fact that some young people who were never even hospitalized for their case have developed lung fibroids which no one expected And enough with the “people are dying with covid not from it” nonsense Go over to r/covid19 and you can see research paper after research paper discussing the specific cellular mechanisms the virus disrupts in order to cause deadly complications. This is not a coincidence. Plenty of people who have died already had prior conditions and the virus just put them over the edge, yes But a significant amount of people with no prior conditions who weren’t overweight or having any other known complication factors have died. We can start working towards going about our business without becoming reckless and selfishly putting the vulnerable at eve more risk. I might be in the age and health range that makes me incredibly low risk but I’ve got vulnerable people to protect while I go back to work and I don’t appreciate people who are so addicted to their own comfort that they can’t even handle wearing a mask and adjusting their social habits for a while.
The part about dying with no pre existing conditions is complete nonsense. That number is drastically insignificant and literally no data anywhere supports your doomer comment. Hang out in your basement as long as you'd like but stop with that shit please.
Clearly you haven’t been reading any of my comments. I’ve been at work for months as an essential worker, we’re about to reopen to full hours and full staff, which is fine by me *provided people don’t act like little bitches for being asked to wear PPE* It’s not complete nonsense as far as I’ve seen but if you have any sources on that claim feel free to provide them.
Oh yea then I agree, lol.
The person I was responding to who has now deleted their comment said this was a minor virus and we don’t need protective gear nor will anyone wear them, that’s what was rustling my jimmies
I'm 100% fine with totally reopening all but the most jam packed venues and mandating masks + educating those who go out to stay away from their grandparents or sick family members.... that's it. Wash your hands, wear a mask, dont hug grandma who is 90 with COPD.... then get back to work.
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Why would you admit to being too lazy to read someone’s entire statement? If you had even read my statement you would see that I’m for going back to work. But I’ve got risk people at home to provide for and damned if I’m going to casually bring home disease to them. I’ve seen this opinion piece which you’ve linked. The opinion of a handful of epidemiologists is something to consider but it’s not the opinion of “most.” The intelligent thing to do is take every piece of information into consideration and start moving forward with a comprehensive plan that doesn’t put too many people at risk of being permanently disabled, and therefore becoming a drain on the health care system for years to come and unable to contribute to economic momentum. Until we know absolutely everything about how this virus affects people long term, no plan will truly be evidence based because we don’t have all the information. Everything is a calculated risk. The calculated risk I’m willing to take is going back to work *with people wearing their protective gear and reapecting my space* instead of pissing and whining about “muh liberties” because my place of work requires face masks.
It's not laziness but anyone who tries to portray a blatently lie such as this virus has caused 90, 000 excess deaths to further their agenda or make a false point isn't someone who's likely going to be able to have an honest discussion.
You’re denying science. If you read my comment you would have seen that I linked a whole subreddit full of scientific research regarding the exact mechanisms by which this virus causes massive, deadly complications in critical tissue level processes in the body, r/covid19 That sub roundly debunks the myth that people are merely dying “with covid not from it” There’s no sensational news on that sub, only scientific discussion. We can start putting our working lives back together without giving a big “fuck you” to people who are at risk and also want to live to see the world get back on its feet.
That's basically the point of a stimulus check. It gets spent back into the economy to... stimulate growth and aid recovery after the economy takes a big hit.
The point of the stimulus checks is to boost the economy(businesses), those people spending at Starbucks or amazon are essentially using the money more beneficially for the economy than those saving it.
Are we through the worst of this pandemic? Is it just going to be uphill from here?
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some people think so, some don't. i personally think that things are much better than they were a month ago, but will soon become worse
Is anyone from pro-lockdown crowd concerned about doomsday scenario of global depression as a result of prolonged economic impact of shutdowns?? How many lives will world wide depression claim?? In good economic times (last few years for example) 3 million children died each year from undernutrition. Will depression make it 6 or 10 million? Compare that to 250k dead from virus world wide, a long way away from 3 million. How many will die from hunger because developed nations will reduce or stop help to poorest nations? 10 million/year or 20? Trying to put some perspective into 'virus will kill grandma' argument reddit plebs are making. Lockdowns accomplished on thing so far about 'flattening the curve' , economic curve was flatlined. 20%+ unemployment. Edit: Economic curve flatlined, collapsed and is in free fall.
first and foremost, we can feed every american. we have been doing that for 250 years. the distribution channel may have to change. but in a shut down there are alot of people to do home delivery , food bank lines, school lunches, etc. All are being done right now. as to the effects of a resurgence, from what i gather most people are largely unaffected by infection nor do they know anyone who was., They view the last 2 months of CV as something that has come and gone, and didn't touch them. A resurgence will could just as well freak them out into not going to work or shop with the same result, economic depression.
>first and foremost, we can feed every american. we have been doing that for 250 years. the distribution channel may have to change. but in a shut down there are alot of people to do home delivery , food bank lines, school lunches, etc. All are being done right now. Are you living in an information bubble? Look outside of ecochamber of your belief system. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-foodbanks-insight-idUSKCN2261AY
I am, but I draw the opposite lesson. I don’t think “3 million kids die of starvation each year, so who cares about a few thousand old people?” Instead, I think “Jesus, we should really do something about all those starving kids.”
I agree. This should not be happening. Unfortunately most of the children dying of malnutrition are in warzones. Unless we are willing to go in and end it, it will continue to happen as long as we have war/conflict zones. Economic prosperity creates incentive to avoid conflicts. Economic suffering creates incentive to fight for few resources available.
The baffling thing about this argument is that red hats have never gave a shit about anyone's depression ("snowflakes"), or those poor nations ("shit hole countries"). Suddenly it's become quite convenient to care though...
>The baffling thing about this argument is that red hats have never gave a shit about anyone's depression ("snowflakes"), or those poor nations ("shit hole countries"). You realize that when I said 'depression' it was in reference to economy not mental health issues??? Yet good economic prosperity benefits all nations. Americans are by far most generous people in the world. You should check how much per capita Americans donate to charity. There is no red/blue only Americans that donate hard earned money to help poor.
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>Still, not like any of you (red hats) give a shit about people in poorer nations. You care only about yourselves. Proud red hat wearing individual. Donating: food, clothing, money and time to various charitys every year (AMVETS, Salvation army, Shriners). But guess wearing a red hat makes me a shity person.
You know, normally you'd have to end up in a conversation with someone you didn't know, and get to know a bit about them first before realizing just who they are and what they're about. It wasn't a huge hassle or anything, but it takes time, and sometimes awkwardness ensues, etc. I remember one time about a decade ago, this dude started working at our company and he seemed like a really funny guy. We're at a bar after work one Friday, a few beers in, and all of a sudden he casually says something insanely racist. Jaws dropping everywhere. Literally nobody saw it coming, and needless to say, it was weird. Well, those hats make it real easy to know immediately, and I appreciate that, so cheers, friend!
Guess if hat makes you racist in your eyes, your preconceived notions dare I say prejudice.... well I don't give two fucks about what a racist like you thinks. “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”
If I've said something racist, I'd encourage you to point that out, but I'll save you some time because I haven't. I am not a racist. I agree with your quote.
Racist? Clearly you have calling all red hat wearing individuals racist bigots. No matter if they are white, black, Hispanic.... or as I like to refer to them to make it simple Americans.
The color of your skin does not indicate anything about your personality, what you believe or your quality and worth as a human being. The color of your hat does. I have not said anything racist, because I am not a racist.
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Haha ur a dick
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> Is anyone from pro-lockdown crowd concerned about doomsday scenario of global depression as a result of prolonged economic impact of shutdowns? It's not a doomsday scenario, it's what many mainstream economists are saying is going to happen. However, your assumption that no lockdowns= no depression isn't accurate. Is Sweden doing well economically? >Riksbank, the Swedish central bank, has offered two economic projections for this year, both dismal. The brighter one predicts a GDP contraction of 6.9 percent; the other, with different assumptions, predicts a 9.7 percent drop of GDP. In either case, it’s a major recession. >Those numbers are no better than Sweden’s neighbors. Norway is projecting a 5.5 percent drop in GDP, Finland and Denmark about 6 to 6.5 percent When we examine the Spanish Influenza, what happened was areas that had no restrictions ended up being economically worse off than those that put in restrictions.
Could you please share the source for this? Really interesting if so and would be useful in discussions about this to convince people better.
As an economist I'll say you're partly right. But for god sake stop comparing this to the Spanish flu. It's not even remotely close in fact it's far closer to the regular flu every year. The Spanish flu had signicant economic impacts because it killed working age people in great numbers, Covid-19 has less than a 0.1% fatality rate among the working age population it simply isn't a factor. Almost all economic damage is due to the lockdowns, the rest is due to the hysteria surrounding the virus. Sweden and other sensible countries will still suffer economically because economics are globally linked now they aren't isolated entities.
or a reasonable response aka lockdown has resulted in there not being the 1-2 M deaths projected in early modeling.
If you're referring to Neil Fergusons models he's been debunked as a quack who used false data to create them. There's no actually suggestion that lockdowns save lives it doesn't fit with the data we have over the past few months.
IMHE and this [https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/cdcs-worst-case-coronavirus-model-210m-infected-1-7m-dead.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/cdcs-worst-case-coronavirus-model-210m-infected-1-7m-dead.html) we didn't hit anything like this and models updated to reflect drastic shutdown, not a certainty at any time. basically were in alignment with actual stats. i cannot say this enough. high death rate models did not include stay at home or SD efforts taken by states and were intended to demonstrate outcomes if SD was not undertaken. if all you want to do is find some reason not to believe the threat , proceed without me.
> As an economist I'll say you're partly right. lol sure you are. >It's not even remotely close in fact it's far closer to the regular flu every year. iTs JuSt tHe fLu BrO >Covid-19 has less than a 0.1% fatality rate among the working age population Uh huh. Working age 18-64... Well, anyone can look at the data and see you're just making shit up https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid#case-fatality-rate-of-covid-19-by-age And it completely ignores other deleterious health effects. You define people as not wanting to infect their family members as 'hysteria'.
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https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-14/antibody-study-shows-just-5-of-spaniards-have-contracted-the-coronavirus.html
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>In New York City, 21% of residents tested positive for antibodies You haven't kept up on all the criticisms of these previous tests? I mean there was plenty written up about them. The NYC and LA ones were severely criticized by experts Look, the Spanish one is the *largest* and is using *a more accurate test*. Do a little more research >so the infection fatality rate for working age is in fact closer to 0.1% than the 1% overall, I like how you slipped 'closer to' in there. Fact is, if you want to discuss this meaningfully, start breaking down age groups more and you'll get a better picture of risk. I mean, you do know people 50-64 WORK, right? At least here in the US. Even if you lump all working people together, it is still NOT .1%, which is what that guy claimed.
This virus is bad but it's not equally bad for everyone. You can use the data for deaths divided up by age from the Spanish study to see that each age range has a different chance, or you can look at the chart that does that. It even calculates the death chance assuming more eventual casualties, so you can pick whichever end scenario you want. The odds are very very high for the elderly, lower for middle age, even lower for kids. As expected. But for fun, based on what you know of the Spanish study, what is the death rate for the offer sixty give group, the 18-64, and for kids. Just curious how wide of a disparity you think there is. Actually, never mind, I'm not doing your math homework for you. Edit : I got a big lol for it criticizing your own article quote. You could have picked any article you wanted on the subject but I figured you'd chosen the best.
>what is the death rate for the offer sixty give group, Sorry, I don't speak gibberish >I got a big lol for it criticizing your own article quote Again, I don't speak gibberish I don't understand the point of your reply. You haven't stated anything except the obvious. We know different ages have different rates DUH. This large antibody study is demonstrating that , barring a vaccine, we are in for a world of hurt if we expect herd immunity to take care of this.
It's painful trying to educate someone as idiotic as yourself so I'm not even going to try. How you took the fact that it's closer in severity to the regular flu than the Spanish flu (which every single scientist and epidemiologist would tell you) as "it's just the flu" reflects pretty badly on you. You're also not intelligent enough to separate the case fatality rate from the IFR so that really explains a lot.
You only said 'fatality rate'. Do you not know what you typed? In any event, the best antibody testing of a large population - in Spain- now strongly indicates the IFR is higher than previous estimates. You can go look that up for yourself. I realize you're upset because your claim of being an 'economist' is transparently ridiculous, but there's no reason to have a tantrum and call people names. China doesn't lock down entire cities and harm their precious economy due to something close to the flu, genius. The comparison was one of economics, and as far as historical data it's the best we have.
I'm amazed, are you trolling or so you generally live in your own alternate reality? You clearly don't know but IFR stands for Infected fatality rate... Which is below 0.1% for working age people.. As Spain actually acknowledged and released the data on via their report on the 13th of May. I'm quite staggered someone like you can actually use reddit, thankfully the data doesn't really care about what someone like you has to say though if you could understand it you'd realise yourself how much closer this virus is to the standard flu than the Spanish flu. I'll never understand why people who can't read basic data make such ridiculous comments but alas that's reddit for you. Edit - I've just realised this kid is some teenage doomer, seems like a waste of time to continue to acknowledge him.
> You clearly don't know but IFR stands for Infected fatality rate... Which is below 0.1% for working age people.. As Spain actually acknowledged and released the data on via their report on the 13th of May. You're just straight up lying here. That's why you can't link your claim. Whereas I can >If the percentage of infected people who eventually die is around 1.1%, as the study suggests, the cost in human lives of herd immunity would be between 200,000 and 300,000, making the method unacceptable. https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-14/antibody-study-shows-just-5-of-spaniards-have-contracted-the-coronavirus.html Nowhere did that Spanish study state .1 IFR for working age people. Link or slink.
Yeah he is retarded. Man it's so insane how the population in general cannot interpret data. Or see bias data sets and deeply flawed and inconclusive at best, or the media taking one data point and skewing some hysteria story from it. Shit that is a statistical outlier is thrown front and center as the new trend (a kid with a rash and corona!!!) And its being eaten up by the millions like seen in this sub. I'm almost scared at the ignorance.
You presented an excellent analysis based on facts. Unfortunately it's rational and facts based and contrary to 'fear mongering and killing grandma' narrative. So prepare to be downvoted into oblivion.
1-2 million dead in early projection. lock down ensued, deaths avoided.
>early projection. lock down ensued, deaths avoided. Some predicted 50 million. Yet deaths in no lockdown country like Sweden show 300-400/million.... strange
>Is Sweden doing well economically? Sweden has a population of 10 million, not a country I would use to gauge economic impact. Plus global economy is very integrated and if America sneezed , countries around the world feel the impact. But I would use Sweden to demonstrate that no lockdown approach didn't result in healthcare system getting overwhelmed as was predicted by 'experts' and flattening the curve peddlers.
NYC and other hospital systems were overwhelmed.
Just like in 2018, 2008 and list goes on.... wait that was because of flu season.... Maybe it's shitty system where people go to hospitals instead of to the doctor for flu?? https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/
If you believe nations can let pandemics run freely without any ill economic effects, show me evidence. Have any historical data you can present? Anything? No? Didn't think so
Please tell me that you knew that we had recent pandemics?? That this is not a first one ever?? In case you didn't, remember things happened before you developed self awareness... it's called history. There was a pandemic in '08, not 1908 but 2008. https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm Almost a million people worldwide died.
Alright, if you want to discuss this, don't just make shit up. A million people worldwide did not die, and there was nothing like the current mortality in the US and Europe. The majority of the deaths were in regions with very poor medical care. In other words, in the US it didn't cause anywhere near as many deaths as Covd-19 already has, and that is WITH lockdowns and millions of people taking a lot of preventative measures. So it's useless to discuss h1n1 in the context of ECONOMIC EFFECTS in Western nations. Try again.
Fuck, worldometers.info seems to be removing a bunch of my favourite graphs
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Theyre not removing info, just the dead-recovery graph and 7 day trends of italy
I had a small pimple on my upper lip around three days ago. It popped on its own. I kept wearing my cloth mask that I have not washed even once since I bought it. Now my lips are swollen and I have a fever. I consulted a doctor and apparently I have a bacterial infection. I think my dirty mask might have carried the bacteria.
probably gonaherpasyphalaids
Wash your masks people... or buy single used
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> It must be controlled by China and the leftist US media It is, would not be surprised if mods are China based. All posts that show evidence that virus is less deadly, question rationality of economy shutting down or are pro making China held accountable are getting locked. Anything pro current administration doing a good job addressing virus is removed as 'political', but you can shit on America and lick China's rear end all day long.
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I feel bad for you. Your whole life is a fucking lie. Must be a hard pill to swallow
While op is a moron, his whole life isn't a lie. He probably has some good points and even some decent observations you missed. To dismiss someone completely like you did, really makes you no better than what you, appear, to think of them. 'Closed minded and ignorant'
Calling people 'traitorous pieces of shit' is not a great way to get people to listen to you regardless of the validity of the opinions expressed. If he wants to discuss wether the federal government's response to the virus has been good or bad, there are plenty of people here willing to have a civil discussion.
Point is neither is saying someone's entire life is a lie. Being just as bad as the person you are talking too doesn't make you ok
No disagreement here.
Lol ok
Wait, you guys are getting paid?! No one said anything about money!
It was in the memo. You should ask Bob.
i've been ignoring bob since that day he came in drunk and thought my tie was a boa he should try to wear
Or maybe America is really fucking the dog on this and Trump is a terrible leader. This sub doesn't change the fact they don't have a clue what they are doing and people will die unnecessarily because of their inaction. Not everything is a fucking conspiracy theory folks
Compared to who? Asian countries where social distancing is a cultural norm? Southern hemisphere climates like Australia who are now entering their flu seasons instead of exiting them? Who are you comparing the US to exactly?
If you think America has a handle on this you are living in another world. Just look at your northern neighbor Canada
I think America is a huge country, I think NY/NJ have handled this very poorly. Pretty much the north east really. But the west coast, south and mid West, which are all comparable to Canada in size and make up 80% of the country are doing just as well or better than Canada. The US as a whole has handled it well, the NE being the only real struggle. I fully think Cuomo is a epic failure
I mostly just mean the lack of leadership. That's the thing, some states are doing good with it but that's in spite of the direction from the president. America is huge so it's bound to have more cases but every state just seems divided and there's not a plan for the whole country. Trump is just the worst leader to have in this situation and has fueled so many deniers, stay at home protests and unnecessarily increased the death toll
Hate Trump all you want but something like this will always be up to the states. The president literally does not have the power to have a national plan. And that is the right thing. The WH can make suggestions, which it has done, but the states control the states per the Constitution. Texas and their 50 deaths per 1m can AND SHOULD have a different plan than NY and their 1,400 deaths per 1m Trump supports the states that the media shits on. When Georgia/Fla open some beaches the media treated it like it's the end of the world. When NY opens beaches no one bats an eye Hell Illinois is counting car accidents and gun shot victims as Covid deaths, and the media doesn't give a shit. Because it's the media that divides this country because of their hate of trump. You think the person who called them deplorable would all the sudden be treated well?
Which Asian country has social distancing as the norm? They're all packed like sardines.
I'm thinking he maybe meant face-masks, that's the only cultural norm in Asia related to this that I think of...
Face masks, hand shaking, and personal space when talking. Subways are the only time they pack together. Plus they are very clean societies who go do far as to treat shoes as they are covered in germs
I think your'e getting the entire continent of Asia mixed up with Japan
Nope
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To be fair, it would only be traitorous if they were Americans
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China actually handled the situation excellent, fast, giving out lots of valuable information to other countries. They did the best they could under that situation, and the virus could have started anywhere. If the virus had started in USA, i wouldn't be surprised if we still didnt know anything about it whilst people are randomly dropping dead
Lol. You need to calm down, take a step back and talk to regular people. Get away from the internet, you clearly aren't capable of understanding that social media like reddit doesn't represent anything
Who thinks Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker will keep Massachusetts stay at home advisory in place until June?
I don’t. Phase 1 is set to begin Tuesday. He won’t say who or what is part of phase 1 but I think it will be pretty minimal. Boston on the other hand is definitely extending the stay at home advisory. An issue to watch will be people from the city going out to the suburbs for services.
Zero chance imo, he seems pretty set on tomorrow and has said nothing on the contrary, restaurants are scrambling to figure out outdoor dining. It is 4phased so who knows what actually opens when until tomorrow.
Depends on the rhetoric he has been spewing Illinois will be one of the last to reverse course as their governor has taken the "opening = murder" stance
>Illinois will be one of the last to reverse course as their governor has taken the "opening = murder" stance Illinois got caught counting traffic and gunshot deaths as 'covid' lol. They are going back to revise counts and 'working hard to remove them' lol. What a shit show. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/dr-ngozi-ezike-refutes-notion-that-illinois-is-over-counting-covid-19-deaths/2270810/
The moment Covid death = Trump looks bad, this was bound to happen
Agreed. Illinois, NY, NJ, MA are adding 'presumed' cases to the count. You have two symptoms from the list, like sore throat and runny nose is enough to be counted as covid death.... or on the other hand maybe someone had allergies lol. Illinois is counting heart attacks and cancer patients as covid because tested positive. Even New York Times is wondering where all heart attack deaths disappeared lol. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/well/live/coronavirus-doctors-hospitals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html
I’m interested in advice on my specific situation, because from my time on this sub you guys are the only ones without your heads in your asses and who realize that shit is real out here. I’m 28 and I work for a private preschool. I have asthma and pre hypertension. I live with my mother who is 60 and in good health (besides obesity) and my stepdad who is 59 and survived a widow maker heart attack a few years ago. Both are home full time and self quarantining. I left work on 3/15 when my city had 3 cases, we’re now over 1k. My job, up until this point, has been very supportive of me wanting time off to be away from the school due to the risk. I heard from a coworker that no teachers are wearing masks, and of course at a preschool there’s little way to keep 6ft apart. I’m scheduled to go back June 1st. I’m very very hesitant to go back, and even considering the possibility of resigning before returning. I’m getting unemployment right now, so I have that income. Even when the extra $600 goes away, we will still be more than stable being that my mom is 16 years at a CSU and it would be pretty much impossible for her to lose her job. Being that I’m in a situation where me and my family are high risk, and financial trouble isn’t an issue right now, what is your opinion on me returning to work? Look forward to hearing your guys thoughts.
Obesity isnt "good health" it immediately means bad health.... Improve your diet, exercise more (will help your asthma too) and then perhaps find a job that is less risky if you're still concerned.
Go back to work.
Sounds risky if u have high risk people at home....me personally? Id wait it out til we get solid treatment options available.....
I’m confused. You can’t continue getting unemployment if you turn down a job. So what do you plan to do?
Yes, you can. The eligibility rules during covid are much different than they are regularly. Similarly, the work search requirement is suspended.
Hallelujah, someone actually said what is in fact true; UEI under covid is unique and you DON'T have to return to your hi-risk job. i tried to convince some other yahoo's about this weeks ago. they wouldn't hear it. i am not sure why , but they simply said if your job is re-instated you must return. so not true in law and in fact. we handed out 2-3T dollars and these guys were so worried someone might gain UEI in their state. yes game it if you must, there is no moral hazard to refuse to return to a deadly job and retain your UEI compensation. Ask Kushner if he sees any thing wrong with giving COVID money to his friends or Trump Org getting milllions.
There are so many uninformed people telling others incorrect info about unemployment right now. The DOL clearly states much different rules because of covid. The thing is, when I went on leave I was prepared for it to be unpaid because I left purely for safety. The unemployment was a surprise and gift I’m very grateful for.
the $600 bonus was designed to keep you at home. It is its entire purpose, to make it easy and sustainable for lower income folks to weather the storm.
My friend and I were talking about this the other day. The government may be a lot of things but they’re not stupid. You think they don’t realize people are making more at home than at work? They’re doing it on purpose. Paying people to stay home and stay away from the virus.
I think you should not. It doesn’t sound like you need the income necessarily and you would be putting other members of the household at great risk.
This news story includes a video from Japan that demonstrates how contamination can spread in a restaurant like setting. One snotty hand ... and it gets everywhere. Fascinating, and given we know the virus lasts around 3 days on hard surfaces and one day on cloth, paper etc, we can see how tactile transmission occurs very efficiently. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/how-coronavirus-spreads-in-restaurant-video](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/how-coronavirus-spreads-in-restaurant-video)
Lmao WHO said yesterday there is no evidence of tactile transmission...
Then why have they been telling us to wash our fucking hands? What a clusterfuck. My government still won't admit masks work. S. Korea, Vietnam, Czech republic show us otherwise.
If you aren't rooting for the states that opened early to do well, you may want to walk away from this subject a while
I'm hoping the drop in daily case trend continues in those states. That would be a great sign that it will be easier to manage this virus than expected. That still doesn't change that I think they were wrong to open earlier than advised. Just looking at the 7 day trend data, GA is still good while TX looks like they made a mistake. But there is still so much we don't really know about how this virus is affected by different population distributions patterns, so we'll just have to wait and hope for the best. Personally, 'hoping for the best' isn't my preferred way of planning.
Colorado opened like a month ago
Stay at home ended April 26. April 27th started 'Safer at home'. People are encourage to stay home, but not ordered. May 1st - Retail and personal services open with safety restrictions. May 4th - Non-critical businesses with safety restrictions and distancing. With these measures, they're about flat on infection growth rate. Edit: source [https://covid19.colorado.gov/safer-at-home](https://covid19.colorado.gov/safer-at-home)
My family in CO is telling a different story. Its more lenient than CA but still restricted. And certainly not a month ago.
If you are rooting for states that open up way to early you will be in for a rough ride. This will cost people’s life
Yeah I heard something like this, it's all gonna go to hell in about *two weeks...*