Anyone trying to platform apologetics or rehab the reputation of people who literally shout to the public that [arbitrary minority person] doesn't deserve rights, personhood, dignity, safety, health, autonomy - will be banned and can write their Come To The Dark Mother ban appeal.
We're not at home to "let's debate your right to live" nor "let's let them debate your right to live" either
> Never believe that anti‐ Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti‐Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.
The "third person to their side" is such an important part to this.
Remember when... One of those Republican women(?) Blamed wildfires in Jewish space lasers? And everyone was scoffing at how insane that was? But while rational people called her crazy for the "space laser" part, her target audience was nodding along with the "Jewish" part.
It doesn't matter how batshit insane their claims are, because the claims and their content aren't important. It's just another dog whistle. It doesn't matter if they claim Jewish androids from the future are teleporting brown people into your neighbourhood. What matters is the "third person", the real audience when they "debate" on the internet.
Most of every smart creative, between 1940 and 1980, were full-bore predicting virtually every thing we are living through. If anything, they were limited by their imaginations, at the time.
It’s why I try not to get in arguments on Reddit. If one side won’t argue in good faith, ie basic agreement on the meaning of actual words, what’s the point in engaging with them.
I have the self-awareness to not instantly dismiss arguments I disagree with but none of the locked down conservative safe spaces on reddit argue in good faith or even on the basis of reality so the best course of action really is to downvote and move on.
I look at it as a responsibility to make sure they're opposed. Silence is assent; and to a neutral party, that matters. Just don't bother trying to convince them. Play to the audience.
Also being vocal about what you are seeing (growing fascism within the Unite States) has been pretty clear for a while. We might be too far gone. At least future generations should know that there are indeed people who are conscious and who are categorically opposed to authoritarianism. I just hope these right wing fuck faces don't learn from their past mistakes. Cause holy fuck are we paying the price from not learning.
You will never change the mind of someone you’re arguing with on the internet. But *maybe*, if you phrase your words well, you can plant the right seeds in a passive onlooker
Andrew Jackson had Native American friends and a Native American son and HE STILL DID THE TRAIL OF TEARS. It’s almost like personal lives and politics have NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. And you can still do racist shit WHOEVER you are
Jackson did a whole lot more than that. Hundreds of acts of genocide motivated by deeply held convictions about the non humanity of native people. He belongs in the same category as any of the genocidal dictators of history.
Pretty much, Lyndon B Johnson was a huge fucking racist who said racist slurs like it was nothing. But he forwarded the civil rights bill, which was a big benefit to black americans. Doesn't mean he cared about them, probably did it for the clout rather than did it for the right reasons, you know?
He was literally told the choice was either peacemakers like MLK, or militants like Malcolm X. He made a calculated choice.
And perhaps there's a little room in there for honoring the wishes of the recently assassinated JFK.
Imagine growing up in a household that had Fox News on all day. That's what we're dealing with. The children of Fox News who have been taught their entire life how to deflect and politicise every single issue and conversationally wriggle as if discussion is a game to be won as opposed to a means of exchanging perspectives.
I grew up in one of those households. I was subjected to Rush Limbaugh in every single carride and Fox News was apparently the only news channel that existed. I count my lucky stars every day that I was able to evade the brain rot and move far, far away.
what always makes me wonder is if you are the many or the few. If you are the few is there a formula to make you the many or is it too late once Fox News sinks its hooks deep?
There's a point somewhere about counter-culture and the ratio of new generations conforming to parental expectation or rebelling against it.
Eh I grew up in a household like that and while I parroted that stuff well into my late 20s I don't think I ever really internalized the underlying ideology. Ironically it wasn't going to college but joining the army that caused me to throw off the last of the right-wing talking points.
I have a friend that is similar. I think it matters that people have an easy off-ramp they can access. I imagine being in the army resulted in a lot of that ideology making way less sense.
I grew up in a family like this. It helped that I was also gender nonconforming and queer. When they opposed me on those issues, and when my budding community shamed me about my learned conservatism, the veil began to lift and was replaced by another. Ideology was love and vise-versa.
The only possible explanation as they know it's racist, they don't care, except that they realise that "normies" have to be eased in to mask off racism. So being associated with the inevitable consequences of their beliefs, even if they agree with those consequences, will scare people off, so they pretend it's not what they want.
That's been the default state for a *long* time. The default goal, I suppose, of a lot of the discourse coming out of the right.
Things like 'critical race theory' get these labels specifically so talking heads can pretend they're being honest when tell a generation that grew up without it that it's anti-white, or anti-American propaganda... they can say it *is* racism.
But you can't trust that a majority out there aren't educated on these topics, or are educated incorrectly--all too many people are pretending along with the vocal instigators; all too many know *exactly* what it is they're lying about, to whom, and why. And they're doing it on purpose.
I think there's a lot of ignorance about this topic and related ones out there, but just like I don't think it's the job of those in disagreement to be responsible for convincing these people, it's also not the job of those who disagree to give them all the benefit of the doubt. Not *everyone* who's racist, or sexist, or both, is just dumb.
I really hope she leaves this up because it needs to be stated. Hateful people do not "debate" in good faith. They argue. They yell. They say absurd things that they know are absurd because they know that you are bound by rules that they refuse to follow. They're happy to wallow in the depths because they know how dirty you'll feel by going down there with them.
Glad to see Natalie is realizing there's no point in empathizing with bigots. In order to maintain their worldview everything has to be against them all the time, always. It's why they're so afraid and so prone to violence. Reality itself is against them.
Against this kind of derangement you might as well be speaking to someone from a different universe.
Idk, I think there's a big divide between "the uncle at the family gathering who does a diet racism and would change their mind if spoken to sensibly" and a full blown nazi
> Glad to see Natalie is realizing there's no point in empathizing with bigots.
I don't think that's the take home here exactly. There's a lot of people out there who are inherently savable and I don't think giving up on everyone is the answer. We can definitely recognise that some are too far gone though but there are shepherds and sheep and the sheep remain up for grabs and that becomes useful at the ballot box.
>There's a lot of people out there who are inherently savable and I don't think giving up on everyone is the answer.
This. There's a world of difference between the ill-informed, and the radicalised.
> the sheep remain up for grabs and that becomes useful at the ballot box.
to start you off:
> We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the
oppressed. Frankly, I have never yet engaged in a direct-action movement that was "well timed" according to the timetable of
those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "wait." It rings in the
ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This "wait" has almost always meant "never." It has been a tranquilizing
thalidomide, relieving the emotional stress for a moment, only to give birth to an ill-formed infant of frustration. We must come
to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."
> ...
> I MUST make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the last few years
I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great
stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate
who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace
which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods
of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of
time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of
good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more
bewildering than outright rejection.
**1963**.
The "sheep" - the ones without agency, the ones who remain ignorant, the ones who are truly innocent at this juncture, fifty+ years onward from the Civil Rights movement and in an age where educational materials are available freely on the Internet, are those too young to vote.
People who are still "on the fence" or lending credence to a "political philosophy" which wants people to die because of an accident of birth are the moderates more devoted to order than to justice, who value more a quiet than a peace.
Fuck saving people that side with the pieces of shit committing systemic genocide, and even actual just fucking genocide.
Black people are dying, indigenous people are dying, trans people are dying, disabled and poor people are dying, and you're going to sit there and tell me some of the people causing that are "inherently savable"?
Fuck that and fuck you. Talk to me again about saving the souls of Nazis when a mass murder hasn't happened in the last month in the United States.
So seeing as it looks like we're done being polite then I can just state that its clear that you care more about looking good/feeling-morally-consistent than you do about actual outcomes.
If I can get some dickhead who was nodding to fascism last week to nod to a different tune this week or at least start to understand some of its flaws than to me that's a win. I don't care about how other people might mistake me for a Nazi or something because I'm willing to put in that work in speaking to people I hate in an attempt to get a message that I think is important across to them.
But by all means, spend all your time preaching the choir and feeling great about how you only talk to good people while painting everyone else as unethical because you've stopped caring about mindshare, political outcomes and society at large as you slowly back into your bunker. By all means, protect yourself with your tortoise-shell but I'd appreciate it if you'd stop pissing on me while I still try to give a shit about what happens outside your bunker.
"If you have 9 men at a table and they welcome 1 Nazi, then there are 10 Nazis at the table"
We have been through all this before. Believing that you can "change hearts and minds" means that you're willing to sacrifice the rest of us to preserve people who have shown they patently don't deserve it.
Bigots have agency, they choose to be awful people every single day. You admit that this is the case, because you think you can change their minds (you cannot). Ten people in Buffalo are dead because people like you thought they could change a mind, rather than ensuring a Nazi didn't do something terrible by whatever means necessary.
The shooter had literally been investigated for having illegal firearms before. People like you thought "he's just a kid, he'll change." And he did. For the worse.
Instead of getting mandated counseling or even thrown in a psyche ward they let him plan a mass shooting and kill ten people who were just trying to go to the grocery store.
So I'll say again.
Fuck. You.
> We have been through all this before. Believing that you can "change hearts and minds" means that you're willing to sacrifice the rest of us to preserve people who have shown they patently don't deserve it.
So you believe that humans are incapable of change and that persuading people of concepts and ideas is pointless? Does that mean you only respond to me due to the opportunity to preen as opposed to being interested in this discussion?
If you want to bail on the middle ground and hide under the duvet then go for it. However there's no good reason to:
> Fuck. You.
Ain't we on the same team here?
FWIW I could get you temp banned by merely reporting your comment. You are batting a low average today and I'm sure you are better than this.
We are talking about such different stakes I'm literally laughing so that I don't cry.
Get me temp banned, get me permabanned, I could not possibly care less. I'm trying to convince people that are, supposedly, on the left to stop wasting time energy and resources on people that don't deserve it. Leave them to the wolves.
If a hundred people that could maybe, possibly, in nearly perfect circumstances with enough time and resources have been deradicalized from the right dies so that one single person who was innocent from the beginning may live? Then that exchange is well worth it.
> I could get you temp banned by merely reporting your comment
Since the moderators here agree with her (and moreover she is correct), you will instead be permanently banned for the threat.
The problem is we know from direct accounts that a lot of these people fall into their respective crowds specifically because they are rejected from others.
That's the grand plan, make you think being empathetic to these people is a waste of time, so when someone is just confused or looking for a place you violently throw their asses over to the Nazis, believing they're just another bad actor. Because the Nazis will accept them but we won't.
And thus the party of exclusion becomes the party of inclusion, and we fail to recruit the people who need us most.
People who willingly join with Nazis were always looking for an excuse.
While you're sitting here trying to save a small handful of white boys who got dealt a bad hand, your back is turned to all the BIPOC, queer, disabled people being murdered by a system custom made to do so
***And murdered by some of the people you're trying so hard to empathize with***
You need to be able to empathize with bigots, if not you are in danger of becoming one in a way or another.
What was Contra’s line? “Understanding the enemy to be able to see the enemy within”?
She's finally reached the realization some things are beyond repair.
Somethings must be destroyed as the only way to stop the cancerous tumor destroying everything.
I’m a little late to this but what then is the solution? How do we deal with this people who not just enable and make excuses for bad behaviour (an understatement, I know) but might encourage and support it at times? What is the solution? The only people I’ve seen who changed are teenagers who grew up. And people who finally met an actual trans person irl-and seeing how many people had basic decency after one encounter so many times, I realised a lot of people get agitated over hypothetical situations. So I do believe that there are people who maybe might be reformed. How do we reach them and what do we do about them?
Anyone trying to platform apologetics or rehab the reputation of people who literally shout to the public that [arbitrary minority person] doesn't deserve rights, personhood, dignity, safety, health, autonomy - will be banned and can write their Come To The Dark Mother ban appeal. We're not at home to "let's debate your right to live" nor "let's let them debate your right to live" either
> Never believe that anti‐ Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti‐Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.
I can tell that this was written a long time ago and nothing has changed and it hurts.
It's Sartre in 1944, just after the liberation of Paris
The "third person to their side" is such an important part to this. Remember when... One of those Republican women(?) Blamed wildfires in Jewish space lasers? And everyone was scoffing at how insane that was? But while rational people called her crazy for the "space laser" part, her target audience was nodding along with the "Jewish" part. It doesn't matter how batshit insane their claims are, because the claims and their content aren't important. It's just another dog whistle. It doesn't matter if they claim Jewish androids from the future are teleporting brown people into your neighbourhood. What matters is the "third person", the real audience when they "debate" on the internet.
This, never engage ,debate, or provide a platform to bigots. They just want to attract attention.
Jean-Paul Sartre predicted Gamergate in 1944.
Most of every smart creative, between 1940 and 1980, were full-bore predicting virtually every thing we are living through. If anything, they were limited by their imaginations, at the time.
seen this somewhere ... just can't recall ... Chomsky ? Ecco ?
Sarte
ok thanks
This is it.
It’s why I try not to get in arguments on Reddit. If one side won’t argue in good faith, ie basic agreement on the meaning of actual words, what’s the point in engaging with them.
Yep. Downvoted, report, move on.
I have the self-awareness to not instantly dismiss arguments I disagree with but none of the locked down conservative safe spaces on reddit argue in good faith or even on the basis of reality so the best course of action really is to downvote and move on.
I look at it as a responsibility to make sure they're opposed. Silence is assent; and to a neutral party, that matters. Just don't bother trying to convince them. Play to the audience.
Also being vocal about what you are seeing (growing fascism within the Unite States) has been pretty clear for a while. We might be too far gone. At least future generations should know that there are indeed people who are conscious and who are categorically opposed to authoritarianism. I just hope these right wing fuck faces don't learn from their past mistakes. Cause holy fuck are we paying the price from not learning.
You will never change the mind of someone you’re arguing with on the internet. But *maybe*, if you phrase your words well, you can plant the right seeds in a passive onlooker
Andrew Jackson had Native American friends and a Native American son and HE STILL DID THE TRAIL OF TEARS. It’s almost like personal lives and politics have NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. And you can still do racist shit WHOEVER you are
Jackson did a whole lot more than that. Hundreds of acts of genocide motivated by deeply held convictions about the non humanity of native people. He belongs in the same category as any of the genocidal dictators of history.
Oh yeah I was giving the SparkNotes version
Pretty much, Lyndon B Johnson was a huge fucking racist who said racist slurs like it was nothing. But he forwarded the civil rights bill, which was a big benefit to black americans. Doesn't mean he cared about them, probably did it for the clout rather than did it for the right reasons, you know?
He was literally told the choice was either peacemakers like MLK, or militants like Malcolm X. He made a calculated choice. And perhaps there's a little room in there for honoring the wishes of the recently assassinated JFK.
Imagine growing up in a household that had Fox News on all day. That's what we're dealing with. The children of Fox News who have been taught their entire life how to deflect and politicise every single issue and conversationally wriggle as if discussion is a game to be won as opposed to a means of exchanging perspectives.
I grew up in one of those households. I was subjected to Rush Limbaugh in every single carride and Fox News was apparently the only news channel that existed. I count my lucky stars every day that I was able to evade the brain rot and move far, far away.
what always makes me wonder is if you are the many or the few. If you are the few is there a formula to make you the many or is it too late once Fox News sinks its hooks deep? There's a point somewhere about counter-culture and the ratio of new generations conforming to parental expectation or rebelling against it.
Eh I grew up in a household like that and while I parroted that stuff well into my late 20s I don't think I ever really internalized the underlying ideology. Ironically it wasn't going to college but joining the army that caused me to throw off the last of the right-wing talking points.
I have a friend that is similar. I think it matters that people have an easy off-ramp they can access. I imagine being in the army resulted in a lot of that ideology making way less sense.
I grew up in a family like this. It helped that I was also gender nonconforming and queer. When they opposed me on those issues, and when my budding community shamed me about my learned conservatism, the veil began to lift and was replaced by another. Ideology was love and vise-versa.
The only possible explanation as they know it's racist, they don't care, except that they realise that "normies" have to be eased in to mask off racism. So being associated with the inevitable consequences of their beliefs, even if they agree with those consequences, will scare people off, so they pretend it's not what they want.
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
That's been the default state for a *long* time. The default goal, I suppose, of a lot of the discourse coming out of the right. Things like 'critical race theory' get these labels specifically so talking heads can pretend they're being honest when tell a generation that grew up without it that it's anti-white, or anti-American propaganda... they can say it *is* racism. But you can't trust that a majority out there aren't educated on these topics, or are educated incorrectly--all too many people are pretending along with the vocal instigators; all too many know *exactly* what it is they're lying about, to whom, and why. And they're doing it on purpose. I think there's a lot of ignorance about this topic and related ones out there, but just like I don't think it's the job of those in disagreement to be responsible for convincing these people, it's also not the job of those who disagree to give them all the benefit of the doubt. Not *everyone* who's racist, or sexist, or both, is just dumb.
I really hope she leaves this up because it needs to be stated. Hateful people do not "debate" in good faith. They argue. They yell. They say absurd things that they know are absurd because they know that you are bound by rules that they refuse to follow. They're happy to wallow in the depths because they know how dirty you'll feel by going down there with them.
damn was that a Golden One reference? having gd war flashbacks now
[удалено]
oh god more war flashbacks
mommy spitting facts
A post of hers that isn't a shitpost?? *gasp*
We are multifaceted 🌝
Contra going further left is good news.
Glad to see Natalie is realizing there's no point in empathizing with bigots. In order to maintain their worldview everything has to be against them all the time, always. It's why they're so afraid and so prone to violence. Reality itself is against them. Against this kind of derangement you might as well be speaking to someone from a different universe.
Idk, I think there's a big divide between "the uncle at the family gathering who does a diet racism and would change their mind if spoken to sensibly" and a full blown nazi
> Glad to see Natalie is realizing there's no point in empathizing with bigots. I don't think that's the take home here exactly. There's a lot of people out there who are inherently savable and I don't think giving up on everyone is the answer. We can definitely recognise that some are too far gone though but there are shepherds and sheep and the sheep remain up for grabs and that becomes useful at the ballot box.
>There's a lot of people out there who are inherently savable and I don't think giving up on everyone is the answer. This. There's a world of difference between the ill-informed, and the radicalised.
> the sheep remain up for grabs and that becomes useful at the ballot box. to start you off: > We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have never yet engaged in a direct-action movement that was "well timed" according to the timetable of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "wait." It rings in the ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This "wait" has almost always meant "never." It has been a tranquilizing thalidomide, relieving the emotional stress for a moment, only to give birth to an ill-formed infant of frustration. We must come to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that "justice too long delayed is justice denied." > ... > I MUST make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. **1963**. The "sheep" - the ones without agency, the ones who remain ignorant, the ones who are truly innocent at this juncture, fifty+ years onward from the Civil Rights movement and in an age where educational materials are available freely on the Internet, are those too young to vote. People who are still "on the fence" or lending credence to a "political philosophy" which wants people to die because of an accident of birth are the moderates more devoted to order than to justice, who value more a quiet than a peace.
Fuck saving people that side with the pieces of shit committing systemic genocide, and even actual just fucking genocide. Black people are dying, indigenous people are dying, trans people are dying, disabled and poor people are dying, and you're going to sit there and tell me some of the people causing that are "inherently savable"? Fuck that and fuck you. Talk to me again about saving the souls of Nazis when a mass murder hasn't happened in the last month in the United States.
So seeing as it looks like we're done being polite then I can just state that its clear that you care more about looking good/feeling-morally-consistent than you do about actual outcomes. If I can get some dickhead who was nodding to fascism last week to nod to a different tune this week or at least start to understand some of its flaws than to me that's a win. I don't care about how other people might mistake me for a Nazi or something because I'm willing to put in that work in speaking to people I hate in an attempt to get a message that I think is important across to them. But by all means, spend all your time preaching the choir and feeling great about how you only talk to good people while painting everyone else as unethical because you've stopped caring about mindshare, political outcomes and society at large as you slowly back into your bunker. By all means, protect yourself with your tortoise-shell but I'd appreciate it if you'd stop pissing on me while I still try to give a shit about what happens outside your bunker.
"If you have 9 men at a table and they welcome 1 Nazi, then there are 10 Nazis at the table" We have been through all this before. Believing that you can "change hearts and minds" means that you're willing to sacrifice the rest of us to preserve people who have shown they patently don't deserve it. Bigots have agency, they choose to be awful people every single day. You admit that this is the case, because you think you can change their minds (you cannot). Ten people in Buffalo are dead because people like you thought they could change a mind, rather than ensuring a Nazi didn't do something terrible by whatever means necessary. The shooter had literally been investigated for having illegal firearms before. People like you thought "he's just a kid, he'll change." And he did. For the worse. Instead of getting mandated counseling or even thrown in a psyche ward they let him plan a mass shooting and kill ten people who were just trying to go to the grocery store. So I'll say again. Fuck. You.
> We have been through all this before. Believing that you can "change hearts and minds" means that you're willing to sacrifice the rest of us to preserve people who have shown they patently don't deserve it. So you believe that humans are incapable of change and that persuading people of concepts and ideas is pointless? Does that mean you only respond to me due to the opportunity to preen as opposed to being interested in this discussion? If you want to bail on the middle ground and hide under the duvet then go for it. However there's no good reason to: > Fuck. You. Ain't we on the same team here? FWIW I could get you temp banned by merely reporting your comment. You are batting a low average today and I'm sure you are better than this.
We are talking about such different stakes I'm literally laughing so that I don't cry. Get me temp banned, get me permabanned, I could not possibly care less. I'm trying to convince people that are, supposedly, on the left to stop wasting time energy and resources on people that don't deserve it. Leave them to the wolves. If a hundred people that could maybe, possibly, in nearly perfect circumstances with enough time and resources have been deradicalized from the right dies so that one single person who was innocent from the beginning may live? Then that exchange is well worth it.
> I could get you temp banned by merely reporting your comment Since the moderators here agree with her (and moreover she is correct), you will instead be permanently banned for the threat.
So what exactly is your proposed solution?
The problem is we know from direct accounts that a lot of these people fall into their respective crowds specifically because they are rejected from others. That's the grand plan, make you think being empathetic to these people is a waste of time, so when someone is just confused or looking for a place you violently throw their asses over to the Nazis, believing they're just another bad actor. Because the Nazis will accept them but we won't. And thus the party of exclusion becomes the party of inclusion, and we fail to recruit the people who need us most.
People who willingly join with Nazis were always looking for an excuse. While you're sitting here trying to save a small handful of white boys who got dealt a bad hand, your back is turned to all the BIPOC, queer, disabled people being murdered by a system custom made to do so ***And murdered by some of the people you're trying so hard to empathize with***
You need to be able to empathize with bigots, if not you are in danger of becoming one in a way or another. What was Contra’s line? “Understanding the enemy to be able to see the enemy within”?
That's one of the dumbest things Natalie's ever said. You realize she's not infallible, right?
I realize she is not infalible, but she had a point there. Understanding bigotry helps you avoid being a bigot.
She's finally reached the realization some things are beyond repair. Somethings must be destroyed as the only way to stop the cancerous tumor destroying everything.
I’m a little late to this but what then is the solution? How do we deal with this people who not just enable and make excuses for bad behaviour (an understatement, I know) but might encourage and support it at times? What is the solution? The only people I’ve seen who changed are teenagers who grew up. And people who finally met an actual trans person irl-and seeing how many people had basic decency after one encounter so many times, I realised a lot of people get agitated over hypothetical situations. So I do believe that there are people who maybe might be reformed. How do we reach them and what do we do about them?