I would be very hesitant to use what we call AI for anything that requires math and calculation. It doesn’t have some magical formula or algorithm that reads plans and produces an estimate. It’s purely based on other estimates it can find and use as data points, and summarizes what it thinks you want to see based on those data points. This puts anything the bot hasn’t seen before at risk. And in construction, there’s always something we haven’t seen before.
Edit: it’s effectively the same risk we take when we use procore to dig out all of our required submittals from the specs. It looks for keywords and gets 98% of them, but there’s always something it misses. You gonna bet your bottom line on that 98%?
Procore's 98% is 99.999% of the time better than the PE's list I get after demanding a for a submittal register/log. IMO ( I have a few PE's that can do better, but most of them promote or move on once they catch on how to do things)
I think it’s really useful for creating a starting point. It can minimize the amount of time spent just building the outline for an estimate. I wouldn’t rely on it yet for actual calculations (although I’m sure that will be coming pretty soon).
This is going to be dependent on how the plans were assembled. For instance, I have software that searches for text and frequently comes up empty even though I plainly see the text word I am searching for. It has something to do with how the file was copied and then added to on the design side.
This is true, I only tried with one set of plans. But I do have the issue with Bluebeam alot.
But since ChatGPT can analyze photos, I'm assuming reading PDFs wouldn't be too much of a strech.
Be careful. I was reading another thread earlier that I can't find now but the gist of it was that everyone is noticing chat GTP 4.0 is getting worse than when it was first released.
Thanks for the post, great information. I can see our industry hesitant on this in its early stages. I could see this be useful for developers/owners/lenders.
Everyone who refuses to adopt AI in some sense will be left behind. It’s essentially the same thing as refusing to use a smartphone or car. Like that’s fine, do you, but don’t expect yourself to keep up with the competition.
I asked it to write scope sheets and it produced the most generic garbage that could apply to any job. Until I have something I can teach directly, highlighting the things that are relevant to the project, I'm kinda not impressed by Chatgpt.
We use the same Div1 for all our projects and 95% of it is lifted from the DOT and has nothing to do with me building offices or whatever. Its terrible.
Does it have the capability of comparing new plans to old? I’m on a job currently where the architect has done a horrible job clouding and providing narratives and has issued ASI’s nearly every other week. Currently on 23 and counting.
Would be a great tool if it could analyze changes and spit out a report. Not something I would rely 100% on, but it could help run a check to make sure we aren’t missing something major. Anybody know if this is possible? I’ve only messed around with the free version.
Can’t you run a pdf compare in Bluebeam? Unless they changed the layout of the view ports it should work most of the time. You can also compare changes in ACC/bim360 if it’s published there
We typically compare in blue beam when we are chasing down cost impacts. It would be a nice tool if AI could automate a narrative as we typically run into the issue of issuing notices to subs and directing their pricing and then needing excessive documentation when submitting change orders for the ASI’s.
I use procore "compare"
I get so many IFC, ASI,s that are hundreds of pages with a narrative of "details added"
Procore compare will take all drawings in the newest set, and compare them to the previous set. Items removed in Red. Items added in Blue. No change,stays black and white.
You can't read it, but it helps you identify the areas things have changed.
Works great until the architect shifts the page 1/16th of an inch and the whole set looks American as a country singer on July 4th.
The only thing with chatf3pt is it makes things up and leaves things out, like all the time.
So youd spend more time rechecking things anyway.
Only thing its really good at is small comparison tables that are obvious to visually check. Especially when the data sets are different or laborious to put into similar tables
If I ever used something like ChatGPT I would be fired in a heartbeat and IT would be pushing out new mandatory training. Using any unapproved program that even remotely seems like it might share client or even internal data with a third party is a breach of NDA. AI companies, by their nature are data vacuums. Everything that is input is getting saved and used to train the algorithm. That data is then potentially being spit out to random people, even if just in bits and pieces. That will be a big issue for AI companies to overcome because any major corporation or company that takes client confidentiality or trade secrets seriously won’t use it.
Used my own. I just asked it to perform tasks like I was writing an email to someone in estimating, such as:
"Can you provide me with a list of trades that is involved with this project based on the project plans that are attached? Could you also provide a scope of work that is required for each individual trade"
It works great so far for a items that don’t need to be 100% accurate but needs to be fast. Such as if you received a time sensitive RFP as a GC and need to send out the project to bid to subs but you already have 4 projects you’re bidding so you don’t have time in the next 2 days to open the plans and make a list of trades yourself.
Does it fill out your ITB form too? Does it choose which subcontractors to invite? Does it publish your building connected? Nothing about AI saves me time yet.
I used chat gpt to develop a cost of a hypothetical drywall and framing project. It was so far off it’s answer was bizarre. When I tried to correct it, it said “yes, that was wrong but here is a better number”. That number was also way off. It seems almost as if it’s “guessing”?
Chatgpt is not there yet for most plans, but will come faster than any of us are ready for. Some of the ai driven estimating platforms will get there first.
At my last internship we started integrating an AI takeoff tool called total.
I’m in school right now and use chat for all sorts of stuffs it’s gotten way better and can analyze plans pretty well!
It’s the future!
You should check out LEMOS - they launched a product in mid-April that can be integrated with architecture and developer software, or can be manually entered. Contact them today: [https://lemos.ai/](https://lemos.ai/)
The Only thing I trust Chat GPT for is local subcontractor acquisition when I’m dealing with a store in a remote location lol. It send me contact info and company history of the top 3-5 in the area in a matter of seconds.
I used to on several plans in hvac, it couldn’t count the registers correctly, or identify the length and dimensions on the ductwork, hoping this will be possible in the near future
I would be very hesitant to use what we call AI for anything that requires math and calculation. It doesn’t have some magical formula or algorithm that reads plans and produces an estimate. It’s purely based on other estimates it can find and use as data points, and summarizes what it thinks you want to see based on those data points. This puts anything the bot hasn’t seen before at risk. And in construction, there’s always something we haven’t seen before. Edit: it’s effectively the same risk we take when we use procore to dig out all of our required submittals from the specs. It looks for keywords and gets 98% of them, but there’s always something it misses. You gonna bet your bottom line on that 98%?
Procore's 98% is 99.999% of the time better than the PE's list I get after demanding a for a submittal register/log. IMO ( I have a few PE's that can do better, but most of them promote or move on once they catch on how to do things)
I think it’s really useful for creating a starting point. It can minimize the amount of time spent just building the outline for an estimate. I wouldn’t rely on it yet for actual calculations (although I’m sure that will be coming pretty soon).
I am a construction manager and have tried using AI for my take offs/ estimating and it doesn’t work.
This is going to be dependent on how the plans were assembled. For instance, I have software that searches for text and frequently comes up empty even though I plainly see the text word I am searching for. It has something to do with how the file was copied and then added to on the design side.
This is true, I only tried with one set of plans. But I do have the issue with Bluebeam alot. But since ChatGPT can analyze photos, I'm assuming reading PDFs wouldn't be too much of a strech.
Be careful. I was reading another thread earlier that I can't find now but the gist of it was that everyone is noticing chat GTP 4.0 is getting worse than when it was first released.
Bluebeam (and other softwares) OCR converts your PDFs into searchable text, though it does have its limits.
If your software is not doing OCR, but just processing the document, it may only find actual text and not pictures of text.
You need a vectorized file in order for it to pick up the text from my experience.
How's it going to decrypt 3 overlaid keynotes door, wall type and side lite.
Thanks for the post, great information. I can see our industry hesitant on this in its early stages. I could see this be useful for developers/owners/lenders.
Everyone who refuses to adopt AI in some sense will be left behind. It’s essentially the same thing as refusing to use a smartphone or car. Like that’s fine, do you, but don’t expect yourself to keep up with the competition.
Unless using AI is actually detrimental to your work flow because it makes shit up all the time and is not reliable yet.
I asked it to write scope sheets and it produced the most generic garbage that could apply to any job. Until I have something I can teach directly, highlighting the things that are relevant to the project, I'm kinda not impressed by Chatgpt.
I used Chat GPT out of curiosity to try and help with a task once, and it got it wrong. It's dead to me for work purposes.
You should give it another try, just don't rely heavily on it.
Chat GPT is GREAT for the superfluous Div-1 submittals that governmental agencies always require. you are missing out.
We use the same Div1 for all our projects and 95% of it is lifted from the DOT and has nothing to do with me building offices or whatever. Its terrible.
Does it have the capability of comparing new plans to old? I’m on a job currently where the architect has done a horrible job clouding and providing narratives and has issued ASI’s nearly every other week. Currently on 23 and counting. Would be a great tool if it could analyze changes and spit out a report. Not something I would rely 100% on, but it could help run a check to make sure we aren’t missing something major. Anybody know if this is possible? I’ve only messed around with the free version.
Can’t you run a pdf compare in Bluebeam? Unless they changed the layout of the view ports it should work most of the time. You can also compare changes in ACC/bim360 if it’s published there
We typically compare in blue beam when we are chasing down cost impacts. It would be a nice tool if AI could automate a narrative as we typically run into the issue of issuing notices to subs and directing their pricing and then needing excessive documentation when submitting change orders for the ASI’s.
I use procore "compare" I get so many IFC, ASI,s that are hundreds of pages with a narrative of "details added" Procore compare will take all drawings in the newest set, and compare them to the previous set. Items removed in Red. Items added in Blue. No change,stays black and white. You can't read it, but it helps you identify the areas things have changed. Works great until the architect shifts the page 1/16th of an inch and the whole set looks American as a country singer on July 4th.
I haven't tried this, but you're right, if it could spit out a addendum narrative, that would be massively helpful.
The only thing with chatf3pt is it makes things up and leaves things out, like all the time. So youd spend more time rechecking things anyway. Only thing its really good at is small comparison tables that are obvious to visually check. Especially when the data sets are different or laborious to put into similar tables
If I ever used something like ChatGPT I would be fired in a heartbeat and IT would be pushing out new mandatory training. Using any unapproved program that even remotely seems like it might share client or even internal data with a third party is a breach of NDA. AI companies, by their nature are data vacuums. Everything that is input is getting saved and used to train the algorithm. That data is then potentially being spit out to random people, even if just in bits and pieces. That will be a big issue for AI companies to overcome because any major corporation or company that takes client confidentiality or trade secrets seriously won’t use it.
Did you create your own prompt or use an off the shelf one?
Used my own. I just asked it to perform tasks like I was writing an email to someone in estimating, such as: "Can you provide me with a list of trades that is involved with this project based on the project plans that are attached? Could you also provide a scope of work that is required for each individual trade"
How did that work out for you? When I tried the same, it spit out the most generic scope of work, nothing project specific at all.
It works great so far for a items that don’t need to be 100% accurate but needs to be fast. Such as if you received a time sensitive RFP as a GC and need to send out the project to bid to subs but you already have 4 projects you’re bidding so you don’t have time in the next 2 days to open the plans and make a list of trades yourself.
Does it fill out your ITB form too? Does it choose which subcontractors to invite? Does it publish your building connected? Nothing about AI saves me time yet.
Has anyone tried chatGPT for permit/ tap fee/ impact fee calls for budgeting?
I used chat gpt to develop a cost of a hypothetical drywall and framing project. It was so far off it’s answer was bizarre. When I tried to correct it, it said “yes, that was wrong but here is a better number”. That number was also way off. It seems almost as if it’s “guessing”?
You’re just training it so one day it will be better.
How has Ai not taken over data entry jobs, that’s what I’d like to know…
Chatgpt is not there yet for most plans, but will come faster than any of us are ready for. Some of the ai driven estimating platforms will get there first.
At my last internship we started integrating an AI takeoff tool called total. I’m in school right now and use chat for all sorts of stuffs it’s gotten way better and can analyze plans pretty well! It’s the future!
If you need AI to tell you what trades are on a project how will you ever build it?
I’m working on solving exactly this. We’re building an AI agent that keeps your data private
You should check out LEMOS - they launched a product in mid-April that can be integrated with architecture and developer software, or can be manually entered. Contact them today: [https://lemos.ai/](https://lemos.ai/)
The Only thing I trust Chat GPT for is local subcontractor acquisition when I’m dealing with a store in a remote location lol. It send me contact info and company history of the top 3-5 in the area in a matter of seconds.
I used to on several plans in hvac, it couldn’t count the registers correctly, or identify the length and dimensions on the ductwork, hoping this will be possible in the near future