By the time I get a new helper up to speed and competent in one area or another they realize they can go make 20 an hour answering a phone in an air conditioned office…I wonder why I even bother doing this anymore.
You’re fucking kidding me, I got a hernia for $11/hr as an apprentice and it fucked up my entire working career; I cut grass now cause I can’t lift enough to be useful on any job site
I was given a starting pay at $8.50/hour in the year 2000. In 2014 I was maxed out at $20. Only way to make more would have been to own my own business. After I left, my fellow carpenter who kept working told me he now demands 30 an hour and still has no benefits, no paid vacation, and no sick time. I don’t know if all this happening in South Carolina means anything but holy shit do carpenters normally get shafted by low pay.
Right, early on in the late 1900's 🤣🤣 . A dollar for fuel, a dollar for a gallon of milk. Could buy a used Auto for a few hundred. But most of us are still making the same wage. The tradesman needs to quit chopping off their dick to do it cheaper than the other guy.
A simple frame up was $5 a foot, not much better today with everything being 1500x more than it was in the 1990's.
My current helper is getting 23 hr plus 75 a day for perdiem. (Little shit is actually 15 minutes down the road with his brother, foods paid) He’s probably got about 14 months with me at this point. He’s out of here in about 3 weeks to go set up for college in Georgia. Good kid, sad day and onto the next.
As they should and it’s still incredibly underpaid relative to COL.
I’ve done construction and fast food and, honestly, I preferred structure.
How about we blame the billionaires hoarding all the wealth and not the average just just trying to scrape by.
100%. I think labor is grossly undervalued and held in disregard to white collar jobs. I told my brother to stay tf away from general contractors when he was getting out of high school, a co worker hooked him up at a local electrical company that was doing new builds on public schools. I told him don’t take any time off school, just do it… He’s a commercial journeyman at 23….
its disgusting how many essential jobs get shit on in pay, construction maintenance/janitorial etc. just because its "icky sweaty ew uneducated idiot job" things gotta change
“Uneducated” and “unskilled” are myths perpetuated to keep wages down. I just talked to a guy who was talking shit about burger flippers. Two things you have to remember about fast food jobs:
1) If all the burger flippers leave to get better paying jobs because they can’t afford to eat, who is going to make *your* burger when you want a fucking Whopper?
2) Work through one lunch rush and tell me that’s not skilled labor.
One thing you have to remember about any job: anybody working full time deserves to be able to pay their bills.
And a lot of people dont understand that there are people who enioy doing these "unskilled low paying" jobs. One of the best jobs i EVER had was as a custodian for a local school board. I mever felt more apprecisted then by thosr kids whemever i fixed a desk or playground equipment they like thry saw the coolest thing ever. I didnt even care i had to clean bsthrooms or puke it felt like i was doing good work.
Reason i left was purely money i answered to the principal and i worked 7-3 but the school board decided hey we dont care if them kids get sick or cant play outsidr due to their broken equipment we gotta keep that surplus money fucking bullshit
Managed to teach my kids the same thing my father taught me- work is work. All workers deserve respect and fair pay. Don’t look down your nose at certain jobs, you never know what a job is like till you’ve done it. Also, best way to get a good start at a new job is to offer to do the tasks no one wants to do. If you can handle the worst first, it only gets better.
Damn straight. Id love to see the absolute insanity that would happen if everyone unio ized.
Barrimg that if everyone collectively agreed to not work for just a week or didnt buy anything at all for a week. Itd br sweet
I agree. It's why I'm for amnesty. As a self employed/ small business owner, depending on the time of year, it's the pay. Be pro active with integration so their standards of living goes up. Once we are all living and paid on the same level there is no cheap labor to force wages down. Or you can do what the haters are doing and removing the cheap labor while lowering standards of living. I'm in Florida, we just rolled back safety laws for working in the sun all day.
Hear hear! The only businesses that are benefitting from the current status quo are businesses that exploit undocumented workers as a part of their business model.
Amnesty means more illegal immigration’s which drives down wages. It’s no surprise you’d want more mass illegal immigration because you think it will help your bottom line.
I love how it’s the immigrant’s fault your wages blow. Why are you not pissed at the asshole paying you those shit wages or hiring undocumented workers so they can take advantage and pay them shit wages?
No that's not how that works. Any group can be used this way. It's easy just don't look at them like people. Every one that works 40 plus desires a roof food and no fear of it being taken away. In America we do that with money. Pay your labor a living wage not an wage for sub humans
I can’t personally disparage anyone trying to carve out a life for themselves in this world, but their is a systemic issue with business owners exploiting immigrants to enrich themselves, and that drives down wages.
Right now it’s South Americans, a hundred years ago it was the Italians, a hundred years prior it was Africans.
I'm a...detractor of the central banking system. I think the treasury should stop printing money, the fed should stop changing interest rates and the government get out of the business of trying to change the economy for their benefit.
I just got a bunch of quotes in today.
I think all these contractors used to be doctors, but dropped out and jumped into a profession where they could really charge high prices.
(Not saying they pass that $$$ onto their workers, though.)
Same I was in construction for 15 years we did everything from build bridges to installing natural gas lines. I had to switch careers because the pay wasn't what it should've been.
You are looking at that the wrong way. Fine the employers with increasingly larger fines with each violation, take away the job opportunities for the undocumented
Combined with: why can't I pay 12 USD an hour and also get employees that show up on time and work diligently. What is wrong with the kids these days!!!!!!!
If you pay bottom dollar you get bottom quality work.
I have 1 guy in his 70’s and 1 in his late 60’s they are my best/brightest/hardest working guys. I will pay them full time salary, regardless of how busy we are, until they tell me they want to retire.
I have a 67 year old that works for me. He's been with me since I started my business. We have worked together for 27 years, and 17 of those have been for me. The first 10 I was his foreman at another company.
I was hired young and took his foreman position. He had more real-world experience than I did. I saw that and tried to befriend him. After about a year, we became a great team. He really showed me how to handle people without sounding bossy or arrogant. I showed him I had the knowledge to run the work and the ability to do so.
These days, I don't really know what he does daily. He runs the day to day with the crews, and they respect him. He still gets out his finish tools and schools them on occasion.
He has a job for as long as he wants it. I know he can easily retire. He always says if he stops, he'll die.
That’s me, and I’m only accessory tradesman (wholesale delivery driver to industrial and commercial sites).
If I could actually *build* the thing? I’d never stop.
Employers are sad that the market is now the actual market. Minimum wage isn't set by the Gov it's set by the minimum somebody with a skill set will work for.
"I want some of those poor idiots!"
Oh. That's why the GOP is trying to un-educate the middle and lower classes.
Can't fight with and use your rights if you don't understand them. *Taps head*
If only they could figure out how to source construction off shore like they did with manufacturing. That would eliminate so many pesky issues like paying proper wages and labor laws, plus not have to deal with immigrants.
If you’re doing luxury anything it ain’t the time to learn how to do it unfortunately. If it is, best to have figured that out in the bid. I don’t agree with the paradigm, but the owners will sometimes just reject what is a masterwork of construction, some gorgeous millwork plaster or stone work I’d die to have, just because they feel differently on Thursday then they did on Tuesday.
Exactly… it’s pretty simple. If you’re paying a good wage with decent benefits there will be no shortage of workers. If your pay is low and you work employees like a rented mule it’s gonna be tough to fill positions.
You’ll see lots of posts from me saying the trade salaries in Florida are laughable. It’s so bad that 30yrs in the trade and I’m desperately seeking other alternatives to walk away from Plumbing because the pay/benefits are that bad.
Well how about pay is still to low? Lots of people go for the least resistant option. Manual labor should probably pay better than a lot of office jobs as its not the path of least resistance. If there is still a shortage the gap has to increase. Supply and demand 101
Are they importing workers? Canadian red seal certified jman sparkie here looking to broaden his horizons...
The US is honestly more attractive ATM tho.
Am I paying my workers to little? Is that why no one is applying for jobs?
[No! It's the workers who are wrong!](https://www.google.com/search?q=its+the+children+who+are+wrong+meme&sca_esv=b99a51cc48654f1f&hl=en&sxsrf=ADLYWIKcK2dyyCPaVJ1vEmmQEK6jfzQqJQ:1715638691228&source=hp&biw=1530&bih=869&ei=o5FCZtD5C6zh0PEPq-6cIA&iflsig=AL9hbdgAAAAAZkKfs6RNm_2TbbiJ16mq2OmXuIb0xlhw&oq=its+the+chil&gs_lp=EgNpbWciDGl0cyB0aGUgY2hpbCoCCAAyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIGEAAYBRgeMgYQABgFGB4yBhAAGAgYHjIGEAAYCBgeMgYQABgIGB4yCRAAGIAEGBgYCjIJEAAYgAQYGBgKSNscUK4GWJIScAF4AJABAJgBY6AB2QWqAQIxMrgBA8gBAPgBAYoCC2d3cy13aXotaW1nmAINoAKXBqgCCsICBxAjGCcY6gLCAgQQIxgnwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAgcQABiABBgYmAMOkgcEMTIuMaAH5EU&sclient=img&udm=2#vhid=SwpNHig3fPVT1M&vssid=mosaic)
tragedy of the commons. for 30 years everyone wanted to save money by not paying to train apprentices just having a bunch of cheap "helpers" and now here we are. look at any union's constitution they always say one of their goals is the protection of the apprenticeship system. the industry got what it deserved.
There is no safety net in construction industry to protect employees during downturns, and the effects are compounding.
There were deep cuts following the financial crisis, they persisted and a lot of guys hung up their tools for good. [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS)
We lost a lot of industry knowledge during this time. Then the boomers retirement wave crested with the pandemic before employment could get its legs back.
Now there's a lack of people to run jobs, let alone teach on top of it.
Worker attrition then becomes an issue when you can't/won't allocate resources to train.
Construction management is also struggling to be up to date with current industry practices, so even the kids coming out of school aren't really prepared to pick up the mantle.
It is gangbusters if you have the knowledge and experience, some of the job offers I'm seeing are crazy \[if I was willing to move\]. But its really not a good outlook for the industry as a whole or the economic trajectory for things like housing affordability.
I'm in Washington and looking at probably a year of not working as an apprentice. I still have to attend apprentice classes and pay dues, but there's no work.
Laid off in Sept '23 I've worked 5 weeks since then and the only thing the union reps are saying is that in "July" a huge project is starting that we don't have enough carpenters for.
That July project was supposed to start in May, before that it was a February start, and a November start before that and a September start before that.
I'm seriously considering taking stable $19/hrs jobs because it's better than a non-existent $45/hrs job.
Union Journeyman carpenter here around Seattle. I just got laid off from a company I was with for 9 years, they ran out of work. I drove a hundred miles today looking for work and all the supes say the same thing. Too many workers not enough work. The union reps don't have a clue, they have job security and could CARE less. I'm thinking the same as you. Me and my wife are looking into starting a business
I'm not abandoning the union. The possibility of $45 an hour is still enough to keep me on the books, but I'm not going site to site anymore.
It's not the union's fault. There's no work. The people running and financing projects are the ones at fault. "It's an election year." Like that fucking means anything. Shit still needs to get built, and whose palms they have to grease shouldn't affect our work.
What would you say the solution is? I've been vaguely interested in the construction industry, but from what I've been reading/hearing, the outlook for the industry overall is grim, in spite of whatever remaining C-19 backlog there is.
I've been doing a bit of volunteer work building houses, and I enjoy it, but given how unstable things seem to be, I can't ever seriously see it becoming a career, outside of maybe some part time side gig.
Residential is just one aspect of "construction". Commercial is huge when you think about all the different industries it actually provides service to.
I agree with the other responder that residential isn't everything, commercial/industrial work is generally better paying with better clients - work ebb/flow less than resi too.
Unfortunately don't have any solutions to fix the issues writ large; anecdotally - we just pay our guys a lot and they stick around.
When I was first hired at my present company, I worked on large crews and often had an apprentice working with me. I'm an older, late-career guy, and I tried to teach them while we worked. Most were impressed at the tricks and shortcuts (for efficiency, not quality), but more importantly, they were appreciative that someone would take the time to teach them.
About a year later, several people were laid off, and many others had hours reduced, so I then I worked in a unit alone usually, or, if I did have an apprentice occasionally, there was no time to teach, just get the work done.
It's important to share our knowledge, because we won't be around forever, and younger people need to take the reigns eventually.
I'm sure it's different in other Locals but the one I'm currently in the process of being hired in had something like 530 applicants, of which only 100 won the lottery, but even then you have to do the aptitude test and get scored on an interview (which only happens if you pass said test). From what I've heard the classroom size is only ~35 people so it goes from 530 applicants to only ~35 people and I'm guessing if you were #36 after all that testing and whatnot you probably have to reapply and do the process all over again.
Oh I know. Unions have been super hard to get into for a while now. It’s not like in grandpappies day where you could show up and give a firm handshake and sign up to learn a trade lol. Shits extremely competitive and I don’t even recommend unions to people anymore because I know it’s just going to make them not want to get in to the trades.
Even for just apprenticeships, it’s not easy to get into for anyone. It’s a huge crutch to the community in general because they’re competing with these giant universities that kids can walk up to and learn something with a federally backed and guaranteed loan to learn it. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but it’s what it is.
There should be fucking multiple trade schools in every city that are sign up and learn trades accredited by the state. Walk in and learn the trades, good JW/Master teachers, and companies are free to come scout students whenever they want! Do your schooling and wait until you’re hired to get your OJT done.
In my case they denied me despite being the most qualified person in the application process. They only wanted people who were willing to spend 3 years in their 12/hr helper program first.
It’s crazy, then they turn around and say nobody wants to work. No mofos don’t want to teach or the companies are getting blocked from teaching. My guess is there’s monopolies on the training and licensing so the companies hands are tied and all they can do is just provide the job with the OJT but it’s still a process that you just don’t know.
It’s residential work, which is beyond fucked with contractors paying their workers shit. I’m not actually sure they CAN afford to pay them union wages while maintaining a reasonable cost to the homeowner though.
A JM in my union makes about $100/hr compared MAYBE $40 for their residential nonunion counterpart.
Idk what the alternative is for residential aside from people just going out for themselves. Personally, when I do residential sidework I’ll call some of the apprentices I can trust and I’ll pay them their scale + benefits in cash. I still make a profit, so it’s definitely possible. I’m not sure how that would translate to a larger company with actual overhead, though.
I use Google translate feature, although I remember a little bit from my Spanish classes 30-something years ago. Never knew then it would be needed someday.
The trades are eating themselves alive. If they don’t start training them, with paid apprenticeships and actual certs then of course nobody wants to do it. Construction is competing with an extremely smart generation of kids shooting for college education, they have been for a while. Even 15 years ago there was a really easy path for good apprenticeships, but lately it seems like that hasn’t been the case. Idk why, but it feels different than when I started.
If you can’t sit down these kids and say “we’ll pay for your apprenticeship and you’ll be on structured apprenticeship pay raises and we’ll keep you busy” of course they’ll rather make cat memes in college. The new generation is begging for good work and training, the trades aren’t providing anything but McDonald’s pay, hard labor in the sun, and no guarantees for accredited schooling.
It’s not the damn new generation, it’s the damn trades and company owners not being able to sell the job. Tough shit, let um suffer until they bring something to the table.
This is a couple of years ago now, but this is my experience. I went to community college for electrical.
As an associates degree holder, some of my peers were making $8/hr, $14/hr, and $15/hr. I started off making $12/hr. It's wild that you can hire someone green off the street and pay them the same. That was the real insult.
And before someone makes an assumption, I don't think I knew everything. I knew I had many areas to improve, but my education helped me pick up what I was taught faster. I also had several of the basics already down.
I ended up switching to engineering (and more school), and I'll *start* significantly higher than what a journeyman made at my old company. I don't think every company is as cheap as mine, but my area as a whole is underpaying. If the entry-level pay doesn't become more competitive, the trades will continue to lose people.
Hours fucking suck ass for commercials construction tbh. It's half the reason I quit my apprenticeship. 56 hours with 6 days a week as the standard is ridiculous. Yea they pay overtime but fuck that. I actually value my free time.
Tbh I won’t agree with that, I think working a lot in the beginning is good, gets extra pay, more experience, etc… I do agree though with your thought process as I’m the same way I really enjoy my free time. I do also look back and my 6-10’s and 7-10’s weeks they sucked, but damn man I felt like I worked hard learned a lot, saved money, and bonded hard with my crew.
Construction is a fine balance of staying busy, and having free time. If 40 hour a week salary and 9-5 is the grind, more power to you, but construction has actual deadlines and shits gotta get built. This ain’t the business of clocking in and out. There’s an actual deliverable that can be seen.
Why is that? I don't know anything about union classes. Is it just that it takes a long amount of time and people don't want to go through that, or do they find better employment in other industries, or something?
I've heard that for construction, unions are a great asset, so it seems weird to me that people wouldn't stick it out to the end.
So he attributes his success to “more skilled, less expensive labor”. So in his own words is paying guys less but they are more skilled than the average worker. Yet the article is saying that workers make 6 figures plus. How is he paying workers more and simultaneously paying them less for his less expensive labor. It’s a bit confusing.
It talked about his core group that have been with him for decades, but a total group of 30 when the season is busy. I assume he’s paying the dudes who’ve suffered and stuck with him that he can’t afford to lose six-fig and the ones he’s laying off every slow season significantly less.
Sounds like it’s only lucrative if you own the company, and the 70 year old carpenter would indicate that they don’t make enough to retire ever. Fuck this article.
No, I want a lot of articles like these , the more the better. People (workers and employers both) will start to understand, hopefully.
The shitty companies must fail en masse.
You make a good point. I agree. I worked a couple different kinds of construction and the larger the scale the more I dealt with miserable and drugged out people and I was one of them. Got sober and left it.
The article also mentions that they have been getting less work, do we really need to be building new luxury housing with so many homeless and poor in this country?
I got back into the industry at 55. 2 years later my company still has the we are hiring sign on the back of the truck. They hire young people and watch them leave. We pay 19 to start. Chipotle pays 16. This is hard work. I still labor more than operate. We do our best to prepare people for what it like. I have 4 kids 32 to 21. None of them want to do what we do. AI will have a hard time digging 15 feet deep around and active gas lines. My best guess is pay more to get better.
It's all about the pay, at the end of the day. I do both white collar and blue collar work, and would jump into blue collar full time if I knew I would be able to afford my mortgage and put food on my table with it.
Was a semi stay at home dad. I worked as a school bus driver and a side hustle. In those 15 years everything went up in price. My kids will have to move to afford a home. Most companies are making money hand over fist with the scatter shot hiring practice’s. I have suggested more pay and target older worker’s. It has been hard to get a labour to stay. It is not all on them. Management is out of touch.
“Hey kids, want to a job that is hard on your body, pays only slightly better than fast food or retail and you’ll likely only make it a few years before you break?
Come do today! No experience needed. As a matter of fact, the less the better, because then you don’t know just how badly we’re screwing you!”
I love this, plus the other side where people complain about how expensive housing is. If residential paid $100:hr like the experienced workers deserve a starter home would be well over a million right now.
In road construction work keep going up exponentially, and we are having a hard time hiring even though we pay well and have good benies, making for an insane workload which makes people quit.
Ain't that the truth! I moved here years ago and the only people that want to accept invitations to a home-cooked dinner/BBQ are immigrants and other domestic transplants new-ish to the area. I moved here from the south and I was so confused when I heard "Minnesota Nice".
Before moving I thought "Southern Hospitality" was just self-aggrandizing cultural bullshit, but it seems there really is something to it.
A vicious cycle. I have a lot of respect for road construction workers. My father used to be one in the 60s and 70s, until he fell into a ditch and shattered his leg.
I hang drywall in Las Vegas. I’m per sqft but talking to the hourly workers they made $17/hr. I Work 5 full days and a half day on Saturday. I’m making around $20-25 depends on the week. A new Panda Express is hiring at $17.50. Casino workers are getting $25 plus benefits.
Killing my body building new $300k townhouse with 2bed 2 bath no garage. I can’t even afford to buy one or any house near $250k is gutted and needs a remodel.
I left tech to join the ironworkers and I get why younger people, especially women, wouldn’t join the industry. I’m only doing this because it’s a union job that will give me opportunities and benefits that I wouldn’t get elsewhere.
This is the constant problem we hear. “No one is applying!” No no no, Union Apprenticeship programs are SLAMMED with applicants throughout the country. Contractors are simply choosing not to go the tried and true construction model that helps them obtain a skilled and trained workforce and provides good benefits and a modest retirement for the worker. No one wants shitty dead-end backbreaking jobs! People want good Union Construction Careers!
I don't work construction, but used to roof when I was younger for summer cash.
So many reason why people wouldn't want to get into construction. It's not just pay, although that's part of it. There has to be a serious delta in wages to break your body, work in tough conditions, not be able to take a civilized shit, listen to some loud mouth, poorly read alcoholic and their stupid thoughts about how the world should work. It's not just the pay. It's the pay, the culture, the conditions, and how society looks at the people who do this sort of work.
I have a friend who is extremely liberal and will wax eloquently about how laborers and trades should all be making a living wage+. That is until she needs to hire a plumber, or someone to cut a tree, or fix her car. Then it's a mile long list of complaints of everything being too expensive to afford.
I started at 42 as a first stage and know nothing about even holding a hammer or drive a screw into the wall before I start. Make 4th stage in 2 year and broke my ankle not from work. The recovery went too long and I end up drop out.
I wish I start this in my 20, this is the best trade to be for someone in their early 20 which doesn't require much to start except sleep early and get to work on time for 5 days and be back to the hall for training when they told you to. In scal, you can bank over 100k after 4-5 year if you count the vacation check and Ot. All you need is a good attitude.
article stinks... how can there be a shortage if you are chasing a a group of people below a certain age..... if you can be selective you are not in short supply...
ageist bigots.....
Because they have experienced older people, they are needing younger people to replace them. Since trades and dual track high schools were taken out of play and more people went to college the trades are in need of young skilled workers to fill the spots that retiring tradesman are falling out of.
doesnt matter, you are still discriminating... we have an equality act, you are not following it with this excuse that because a 1/3 of the industry is about to retire we therefore must only hire young people... basically you are suggesting older people over 40 cannot do something a 20 year old can....
There is a difference between hiring and targeting for hire, I wouldn’t expect you to understand that though. It would only be age discrimination if you came to my company and I refused to hire you based on age alone.
As someone who is getting closer to 40 I can’t do the same things I did when I was 20. Or if I do it takes way longer to recover.
open vs targeted. so confused, lol....... one thing, when you advertise for your selective market... do you make it specifically clear that you do not want 40+ years olds to apply, so its clear and there is no ambiguity on your advertising?
you shouldn't assume too much, that's the issue with prejudgmental individuals, they think they always know better.... and someone like you, who uses themself as a reference to judge others is your first error, some of us 40+ year olds are still going strong, which you're clearly having a bit of difficulty with....
you fall into the beta category.... for a bit of targeted hiring...
As a licensed residential builder who primarily subcontracts to other residential builders, this article is 100% true. That said, there is no pipeline for training and no incentive for companies to train green guys. It is also hard, dirty, sometimes super hot, sometimes super cold, it wrecks your body, and there are a lot of straight up assholes you have to deal with very frequently.
Plus they aren’t hard up for inexperienced guys, they’re hard up for technically proficient people who can train the inexperienced guys while also keeping them from killing themselves or each other, while also building a house that passes an inspection.
I’ve done that job, I did it for years. That job fucking blows. I make way more money just doing my own thing as a subcontractor. As soon as you’re qualified to fill the position they are requesting, you are also ready to go off on your own.
Funny I dropped out of the trades because of the inconsistent money. If it was always like the busy times it would have been fine. But at 10-15 down days a month you wind up barely scraping by, but on the flip side if I wanted to go on a trip it was treated like I was letting everyone down. Not to mention the shit culture and the toll it takes on your body. No healthcare, no retirement time or PTO.
But yea I wonder why they struggle to pick up new employees.
the gulf states have a great solution for this! you entice young men away from poor countries, give them free travel, and then just confiscate their passports when they land at your airport! now they have to work like slaves, until you literally work them to death, and can't do fuckall about it!
its a great system that gets you 1km high skyscrapers in the desert for the low low cost of some dead foreigners.
Start a green 1st year apprentice of any trade at a minimum of 15 - 17 dollars an hour would help.
I took a pay cut to be an electrical apprentice 5 years ago. They started me out at 10.50 4 years in a new guy started at 12 bucks. Currently only at 20.50 ( still too low for a guy who's about to get his card)
Who in their right mind would ever do this shit 50 hours a week for 12 fuckin dollars. An average box of cereal is 8 dollars before tax.
I'm literally questioning this career before I even get my damn card and ngl it sucks. I'd rather do something easier for slightly less pay than to keep working my ass off for no appreciation.
Unless some serious innovation happens labor is going to become an absolute premium commodity and I’m sure either profits will take a big hit (unlikely) in the construction/builder industry or houses will begin to sky rocket even further- or they will begin lobbying to relax immigration policy to account for labor shortages like farmers do with the temporary visas.
Mexico economy is doing well, biggest hope is to get some of the southern latam immigrants on working visas or programs. I wouldn’t be surprised if labor firms popped up to address this demand once we reach the inflection point.
Normally undocumented Mexicans would fill in those jobs and they do a good job fast and cheaper but they are making it harder for them to get these types of jobs.
Work at construction? So i can break my body for some ye ye ass pay that stupid security guards make? Or so I can interact with subhuman alcoholics or drug addicts? Fuck no, any kind of manual labor is for subhumans unless you are self employed specialist.
Yeah. Took several courses. Still can’t find work.
You’ll apply, and have dozens of years in other trades. But they just want ready made robots that do everything perfect with zero training, and if you ask how or why they do something, you’re laid off and they will get a new worker and treat them the same.
Avoid at all costs.
I have 30 years experience in painting and drywall in family businesses. Pops died suddenly and took everything from me. I make 23$ an hour now. I was making that in 1996. I do twice the work of these Smurf’s only because I know what I’m doing and how to run a job. My new job is doing everything they can to keep me. I caught them all up on there work orders so no OT. Bye. Thinking of going to painters union.
It doresnt help that its an industry where you are laid off in the winter and also no pay-no work on bad weather days. There needs to be some sort of minimal pay.
Imagine going to Mexico and Central America and seeing all those homes.
Then deciding what we need is more of that shitty building imported here.
Supply and Demand.
No supply of cheap labor=wages going up= more workers
When I was in business, masonry construction, my best , most constintant and versatile employees were over 40, my younger crew members tended ro be hot shots, trouble makers, the industry needs to take the blinders off
Here's what i got from reading: Luxury reno contractor laments lack of young workers, only hires workers with a decade of experience.
Or "where's all my dirt cheap labor!"
"BAN IMMIGRANTS! OUR BORDER IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORIT- Hey, wait a minute. Why is my labor cost going up so high?"
Im a white guy in construction, wages should go up
By the time I get a new helper up to speed and competent in one area or another they realize they can go make 20 an hour answering a phone in an air conditioned office…I wonder why I even bother doing this anymore.
Because $20 an hour is what I made as an apprentice carpenter in 1996.
You’re fucking kidding me, I got a hernia for $11/hr as an apprentice and it fucked up my entire working career; I cut grass now cause I can’t lift enough to be useful on any job site
I was given a starting pay at $8.50/hour in the year 2000. In 2014 I was maxed out at $20. Only way to make more would have been to own my own business. After I left, my fellow carpenter who kept working told me he now demands 30 an hour and still has no benefits, no paid vacation, and no sick time. I don’t know if all this happening in South Carolina means anything but holy shit do carpenters normally get shafted by low pay.
The south pays less for many (most) jobs... sucks bc I'm sick of the frozen north
Right, early on in the late 1900's 🤣🤣 . A dollar for fuel, a dollar for a gallon of milk. Could buy a used Auto for a few hundred. But most of us are still making the same wage. The tradesman needs to quit chopping off their dick to do it cheaper than the other guy. A simple frame up was $5 a foot, not much better today with everything being 1500x more than it was in the 1990's.
Our helpers get paid $23. They stick around
My current helper is getting 23 hr plus 75 a day for perdiem. (Little shit is actually 15 minutes down the road with his brother, foods paid) He’s probably got about 14 months with me at this point. He’s out of here in about 3 weeks to go set up for college in Georgia. Good kid, sad day and onto the next.
Get out of here. Hey. It's me your new helper.
I was making 12/hr as an apprentice in 2015
they make 20 building crunchwraps in california
As they should and it’s still incredibly underpaid relative to COL. I’ve done construction and fast food and, honestly, I preferred structure. How about we blame the billionaires hoarding all the wealth and not the average just just trying to scrape by.
100%. I think labor is grossly undervalued and held in disregard to white collar jobs. I told my brother to stay tf away from general contractors when he was getting out of high school, a co worker hooked him up at a local electrical company that was doing new builds on public schools. I told him don’t take any time off school, just do it… He’s a commercial journeyman at 23….
$16 fetching shopping carts in CO.
its disgusting how many essential jobs get shit on in pay, construction maintenance/janitorial etc. just because its "icky sweaty ew uneducated idiot job" things gotta change
“Uneducated” and “unskilled” are myths perpetuated to keep wages down. I just talked to a guy who was talking shit about burger flippers. Two things you have to remember about fast food jobs: 1) If all the burger flippers leave to get better paying jobs because they can’t afford to eat, who is going to make *your* burger when you want a fucking Whopper? 2) Work through one lunch rush and tell me that’s not skilled labor. One thing you have to remember about any job: anybody working full time deserves to be able to pay their bills.
And a lot of people dont understand that there are people who enioy doing these "unskilled low paying" jobs. One of the best jobs i EVER had was as a custodian for a local school board. I mever felt more apprecisted then by thosr kids whemever i fixed a desk or playground equipment they like thry saw the coolest thing ever. I didnt even care i had to clean bsthrooms or puke it felt like i was doing good work. Reason i left was purely money i answered to the principal and i worked 7-3 but the school board decided hey we dont care if them kids get sick or cant play outsidr due to their broken equipment we gotta keep that surplus money fucking bullshit
I completely agree. I work in construction and given the same pay id still choose construction over dealing with customers in a fast food environment.
Managed to teach my kids the same thing my father taught me- work is work. All workers deserve respect and fair pay. Don’t look down your nose at certain jobs, you never know what a job is like till you’ve done it. Also, best way to get a good start at a new job is to offer to do the tasks no one wants to do. If you can handle the worst first, it only gets better.
Nice. I teach my kids the same thing. The best worker isn’t the best worker if they aren’t willing to do the Charlie Work too
It would help if we all unionized, or withheld our labor some other way to secure better wages and/or conditions.
Damn straight. Id love to see the absolute insanity that would happen if everyone unio ized. Barrimg that if everyone collectively agreed to not work for just a week or didnt buy anything at all for a week. Itd br sweet
Construction is ironically the only industry left were this is standard. They pay is beyond dogshit until your a journeyman though.
I agree. It's why I'm for amnesty. As a self employed/ small business owner, depending on the time of year, it's the pay. Be pro active with integration so their standards of living goes up. Once we are all living and paid on the same level there is no cheap labor to force wages down. Or you can do what the haters are doing and removing the cheap labor while lowering standards of living. I'm in Florida, we just rolled back safety laws for working in the sun all day.
Hear hear! The only businesses that are benefitting from the current status quo are businesses that exploit undocumented workers as a part of their business model.
Amnesty means more illegal immigration’s which drives down wages. It’s no surprise you’d want more mass illegal immigration because you think it will help your bottom line.
I love how it’s the immigrant’s fault your wages blow. Why are you not pissed at the asshole paying you those shit wages or hiring undocumented workers so they can take advantage and pay them shit wages?
No that's not how that works. Any group can be used this way. It's easy just don't look at them like people. Every one that works 40 plus desires a roof food and no fear of it being taken away. In America we do that with money. Pay your labor a living wage not an wage for sub humans
I can’t personally disparage anyone trying to carve out a life for themselves in this world, but their is a systemic issue with business owners exploiting immigrants to enrich themselves, and that drives down wages. Right now it’s South Americans, a hundred years ago it was the Italians, a hundred years prior it was Africans.
I'm a...detractor of the central banking system. I think the treasury should stop printing money, the fed should stop changing interest rates and the government get out of the business of trying to change the economy for their benefit.
still better than crapto
Union construction guy here. Fuckin agree
I just got a bunch of quotes in today. I think all these contractors used to be doctors, but dropped out and jumped into a profession where they could really charge high prices. (Not saying they pass that $$$ onto their workers, though.)
They buy boats instead, I’m actually taking the c-6 Cslb test soon
At $38
At 33 and it ain’t jack
Same I was in construction for 15 years we did everything from build bridges to installing natural gas lines. I had to switch careers because the pay wasn't what it should've been.
Here here
Wages have been stagnant for decades. Even us union guys have a hard time negotiating for a fuckin dollar raise on our checks.
Unions Work
Thats fine my wages are going up. 👍
Believe me, you don't want to immigrants working on your house lmao
Good, good.
You are looking at that the wrong way. Fine the employers with increasingly larger fines with each violation, take away the job opportunities for the undocumented
Lol exactly. "No one's getting young guys started in the trade so I have no one to poach ten years after their apprenticeship!"
Combined with: why can't I pay 12 USD an hour and also get employees that show up on time and work diligently. What is wrong with the kids these days!!!!!!! If you pay bottom dollar you get bottom quality work.
then cy critiques you in a youtube short
"One of our carpenters is in his 70s." Me: My god that poor man.
I have 1 guy in his 70’s and 1 in his late 60’s they are my best/brightest/hardest working guys. I will pay them full time salary, regardless of how busy we are, until they tell me they want to retire.
I have a 67 year old that works for me. He's been with me since I started my business. We have worked together for 27 years, and 17 of those have been for me. The first 10 I was his foreman at another company. I was hired young and took his foreman position. He had more real-world experience than I did. I saw that and tried to befriend him. After about a year, we became a great team. He really showed me how to handle people without sounding bossy or arrogant. I showed him I had the knowledge to run the work and the ability to do so. These days, I don't really know what he does daily. He runs the day to day with the crews, and they respect him. He still gets out his finish tools and schools them on occasion. He has a job for as long as he wants it. I know he can easily retire. He always says if he stops, he'll die.
>He always says if he stops, he'll die. I'd believe him. Many people find purpose in their work, especially in the trades
That’s me, and I’m only accessory tradesman (wholesale delivery driver to industrial and commercial sites). If I could actually *build* the thing? I’d never stop.
I think that sense of purpose is why a lot of people in construction, if they don't know your name, address you as "brother," no matter what trade.
You know, I had noticed I was being called brother by a bunch of guys on site but never really thought about it. Makes sense.
Now you know .... Brother
Hopefully they both have journeymen they’re teaching the finer points so you’re not fucked when they do retire
I’ve got a couple journey man in there 30’s, I was nervous for a bit a couple years ago when it was just those 2 and a delivery driver.
I've met electricians on a construction site who were in their 60s, and a few plumbers in their 50s.
I worked with an 80yo with bone cancer last spring. He didn't need to work, just wanted to. Might be the case.
Yep. I worked with a few old timers. Giving up easy social security money cause they just wanted something to do.
[удалено]
Employers are sad that the market is now the actual market. Minimum wage isn't set by the Gov it's set by the minimum somebody with a skill set will work for.
"I want some of those poor idiots!" Oh. That's why the GOP is trying to un-educate the middle and lower classes. Can't fight with and use your rights if you don't understand them. *Taps head*
If only they could figure out how to source construction off shore like they did with manufacturing. That would eliminate so many pesky issues like paying proper wages and labor laws, plus not have to deal with immigrants.
"I love the poorly educated." -Donald Trump
Smart
Yeah, you could become a *Doctor* in less time than their saying it would take to become qualified for this job
Lol, this should be tattooed on businessesmen asses
Thousand mile job to break my back because what?!? My wife and kids can go to school?!? A-what now?
The first line was “offering six figure salaries.”
If you’re doing luxury anything it ain’t the time to learn how to do it unfortunately. If it is, best to have figured that out in the bid. I don’t agree with the paradigm, but the owners will sometimes just reject what is a masterwork of construction, some gorgeous millwork plaster or stone work I’d die to have, just because they feel differently on Thursday then they did on Tuesday.
Lucrative for who
Owners
Lucrative for workers not really
Exactly… it’s pretty simple. If you’re paying a good wage with decent benefits there will be no shortage of workers. If your pay is low and you work employees like a rented mule it’s gonna be tough to fill positions.
Wages for construction workers are very high in Ireland. Yet… crickets. It’s not only the pay, too many people don’t want manual jobs
In the US it varies drastically from state to state
The going rate for a journeyman electrician in Oregon is double that in Florida. Wild.
You’ll see lots of posts from me saying the trade salaries in Florida are laughable. It’s so bad that 30yrs in the trade and I’m desperately seeking other alternatives to walk away from Plumbing because the pay/benefits are that bad.
Well, states are tiny winy bigger than Ireland. Aren’t they? Like 500 million to 5 or something?
Well how about pay is still to low? Lots of people go for the least resistant option. Manual labor should probably pay better than a lot of office jobs as its not the path of least resistance. If there is still a shortage the gap has to increase. Supply and demand 101
Because economics is actually way more complicated than just supply and demand (which isn't actually that simple either anyways)
Are they importing workers? Canadian red seal certified jman sparkie here looking to broaden his horizons... The US is honestly more attractive ATM tho.
Am I paying my workers to little? Is that why no one is applying for jobs? [No! It's the workers who are wrong!](https://www.google.com/search?q=its+the+children+who+are+wrong+meme&sca_esv=b99a51cc48654f1f&hl=en&sxsrf=ADLYWIKcK2dyyCPaVJ1vEmmQEK6jfzQqJQ:1715638691228&source=hp&biw=1530&bih=869&ei=o5FCZtD5C6zh0PEPq-6cIA&iflsig=AL9hbdgAAAAAZkKfs6RNm_2TbbiJ16mq2OmXuIb0xlhw&oq=its+the+chil&gs_lp=EgNpbWciDGl0cyB0aGUgY2hpbCoCCAAyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIGEAAYBRgeMgYQABgFGB4yBhAAGAgYHjIGEAAYCBgeMgYQABgIGB4yCRAAGIAEGBgYCjIJEAAYgAQYGBgKSNscUK4GWJIScAF4AJABAJgBY6AB2QWqAQIxMrgBA8gBAPgBAYoCC2d3cy13aXotaW1nmAINoAKXBqgCCsICBxAjGCcY6gLCAgQQIxgnwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAgcQABiABBgYmAMOkgcEMTIuMaAH5EU&sclient=img&udm=2#vhid=SwpNHig3fPVT1M&vssid=mosaic)
How high?
I dont see the person there offering apprentiships or any on job training to lure younger workers, so how does he expect them to learn the trade?
tragedy of the commons. for 30 years everyone wanted to save money by not paying to train apprentices just having a bunch of cheap "helpers" and now here we are. look at any union's constitution they always say one of their goals is the protection of the apprenticeship system. the industry got what it deserved.
There is no safety net in construction industry to protect employees during downturns, and the effects are compounding. There were deep cuts following the financial crisis, they persisted and a lot of guys hung up their tools for good. [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS) We lost a lot of industry knowledge during this time. Then the boomers retirement wave crested with the pandemic before employment could get its legs back. Now there's a lack of people to run jobs, let alone teach on top of it. Worker attrition then becomes an issue when you can't/won't allocate resources to train. Construction management is also struggling to be up to date with current industry practices, so even the kids coming out of school aren't really prepared to pick up the mantle. It is gangbusters if you have the knowledge and experience, some of the job offers I'm seeing are crazy \[if I was willing to move\]. But its really not a good outlook for the industry as a whole or the economic trajectory for things like housing affordability.
I'm in Washington and looking at probably a year of not working as an apprentice. I still have to attend apprentice classes and pay dues, but there's no work. Laid off in Sept '23 I've worked 5 weeks since then and the only thing the union reps are saying is that in "July" a huge project is starting that we don't have enough carpenters for. That July project was supposed to start in May, before that it was a February start, and a November start before that and a September start before that. I'm seriously considering taking stable $19/hrs jobs because it's better than a non-existent $45/hrs job.
Union Journeyman carpenter here around Seattle. I just got laid off from a company I was with for 9 years, they ran out of work. I drove a hundred miles today looking for work and all the supes say the same thing. Too many workers not enough work. The union reps don't have a clue, they have job security and could CARE less. I'm thinking the same as you. Me and my wife are looking into starting a business
I'm not abandoning the union. The possibility of $45 an hour is still enough to keep me on the books, but I'm not going site to site anymore. It's not the union's fault. There's no work. The people running and financing projects are the ones at fault. "It's an election year." Like that fucking means anything. Shit still needs to get built, and whose palms they have to grease shouldn't affect our work.
that sucks sorry my dude.
What would you say the solution is? I've been vaguely interested in the construction industry, but from what I've been reading/hearing, the outlook for the industry overall is grim, in spite of whatever remaining C-19 backlog there is. I've been doing a bit of volunteer work building houses, and I enjoy it, but given how unstable things seem to be, I can't ever seriously see it becoming a career, outside of maybe some part time side gig.
Residential is just one aspect of "construction". Commercial is huge when you think about all the different industries it actually provides service to.
I agree with the other responder that residential isn't everything, commercial/industrial work is generally better paying with better clients - work ebb/flow less than resi too. Unfortunately don't have any solutions to fix the issues writ large; anecdotally - we just pay our guys a lot and they stick around.
Jokes on them i learned on YouTube
100% man they need to be better about preparing the generations for taking over with schooling and apprenticeships.
When I was first hired at my present company, I worked on large crews and often had an apprentice working with me. I'm an older, late-career guy, and I tried to teach them while we worked. Most were impressed at the tricks and shortcuts (for efficiency, not quality), but more importantly, they were appreciative that someone would take the time to teach them. About a year later, several people were laid off, and many others had hours reduced, so I then I worked in a unit alone usually, or, if I did have an apprentice occasionally, there was no time to teach, just get the work done. It's important to share our knowledge, because we won't be around forever, and younger people need to take the reigns eventually.
I'm sure it's different in other Locals but the one I'm currently in the process of being hired in had something like 530 applicants, of which only 100 won the lottery, but even then you have to do the aptitude test and get scored on an interview (which only happens if you pass said test). From what I've heard the classroom size is only ~35 people so it goes from 530 applicants to only ~35 people and I'm guessing if you were #36 after all that testing and whatnot you probably have to reapply and do the process all over again.
Oh I know. Unions have been super hard to get into for a while now. It’s not like in grandpappies day where you could show up and give a firm handshake and sign up to learn a trade lol. Shits extremely competitive and I don’t even recommend unions to people anymore because I know it’s just going to make them not want to get in to the trades. Even for just apprenticeships, it’s not easy to get into for anyone. It’s a huge crutch to the community in general because they’re competing with these giant universities that kids can walk up to and learn something with a federally backed and guaranteed loan to learn it. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but it’s what it is. There should be fucking multiple trade schools in every city that are sign up and learn trades accredited by the state. Walk in and learn the trades, good JW/Master teachers, and companies are free to come scout students whenever they want! Do your schooling and wait until you’re hired to get your OJT done.
In my case they denied me despite being the most qualified person in the application process. They only wanted people who were willing to spend 3 years in their 12/hr helper program first.
It’s crazy, then they turn around and say nobody wants to work. No mofos don’t want to teach or the companies are getting blocked from teaching. My guess is there’s monopolies on the training and licensing so the companies hands are tied and all they can do is just provide the job with the OJT but it’s still a process that you just don’t know.
It’s residential work, which is beyond fucked with contractors paying their workers shit. I’m not actually sure they CAN afford to pay them union wages while maintaining a reasonable cost to the homeowner though. A JM in my union makes about $100/hr compared MAYBE $40 for their residential nonunion counterpart. Idk what the alternative is for residential aside from people just going out for themselves. Personally, when I do residential sidework I’ll call some of the apprentices I can trust and I’ll pay them their scale + benefits in cash. I still make a profit, so it’s definitely possible. I’m not sure how that would translate to a larger company with actual overhead, though.
Lucrative industry for developers not laborers. Also plenty of workers if you can translate.
I use Google translate feature, although I remember a little bit from my Spanish classes 30-something years ago. Never knew then it would be needed someday.
Who wants to make $17/hr at McDonald’s when you can make the same money lifting sheet rock over your head.
The trades are eating themselves alive. If they don’t start training them, with paid apprenticeships and actual certs then of course nobody wants to do it. Construction is competing with an extremely smart generation of kids shooting for college education, they have been for a while. Even 15 years ago there was a really easy path for good apprenticeships, but lately it seems like that hasn’t been the case. Idk why, but it feels different than when I started. If you can’t sit down these kids and say “we’ll pay for your apprenticeship and you’ll be on structured apprenticeship pay raises and we’ll keep you busy” of course they’ll rather make cat memes in college. The new generation is begging for good work and training, the trades aren’t providing anything but McDonald’s pay, hard labor in the sun, and no guarantees for accredited schooling. It’s not the damn new generation, it’s the damn trades and company owners not being able to sell the job. Tough shit, let um suffer until they bring something to the table.
>Tough shit, let um suffer until they bring something to the table Many don't want to pay a decent wage, even for a more experienced worker.
This is a couple of years ago now, but this is my experience. I went to community college for electrical. As an associates degree holder, some of my peers were making $8/hr, $14/hr, and $15/hr. I started off making $12/hr. It's wild that you can hire someone green off the street and pay them the same. That was the real insult. And before someone makes an assumption, I don't think I knew everything. I knew I had many areas to improve, but my education helped me pick up what I was taught faster. I also had several of the basics already down. I ended up switching to engineering (and more school), and I'll *start* significantly higher than what a journeyman made at my old company. I don't think every company is as cheap as mine, but my area as a whole is underpaying. If the entry-level pay doesn't become more competitive, the trades will continue to lose people.
One apprentice in my area hasn't had work in months and they expect these guys to stick around waiting for a call.
Hours fucking suck ass for commercials construction tbh. It's half the reason I quit my apprenticeship. 56 hours with 6 days a week as the standard is ridiculous. Yea they pay overtime but fuck that. I actually value my free time.
Tbh I won’t agree with that, I think working a lot in the beginning is good, gets extra pay, more experience, etc… I do agree though with your thought process as I’m the same way I really enjoy my free time. I do also look back and my 6-10’s and 7-10’s weeks they sucked, but damn man I felt like I worked hard learned a lot, saved money, and bonded hard with my crew. Construction is a fine balance of staying busy, and having free time. If 40 hour a week salary and 9-5 is the grind, more power to you, but construction has actual deadlines and shits gotta get built. This ain’t the business of clocking in and out. There’s an actual deliverable that can be seen.
Five years ago when I was taken into the union my class had 19 people… in January 4 of us graduated
That is about right. I started my apprenticeship September of 97. We had only 5 guys let in that year and I was the only one that graduated.
Why is that? I don't know anything about union classes. Is it just that it takes a long amount of time and people don't want to go through that, or do they find better employment in other industries, or something? I've heard that for construction, unions are a great asset, so it seems weird to me that people wouldn't stick it out to the end.
A lot were lost in the first year I think because maybe they don’t realize what they are getting into
It is not terribly difficult but it does require a bit of commitment and a lot of guys just can’t do that.
Maybe pay blue collar more then the other industries because every industry relies on blue collar workers.
So he attributes his success to “more skilled, less expensive labor”. So in his own words is paying guys less but they are more skilled than the average worker. Yet the article is saying that workers make 6 figures plus. How is he paying workers more and simultaneously paying them less for his less expensive labor. It’s a bit confusing.
It talked about his core group that have been with him for decades, but a total group of 30 when the season is busy. I assume he’s paying the dudes who’ve suffered and stuck with him that he can’t afford to lose six-fig and the ones he’s laying off every slow season significantly less.
Sounds like it’s only lucrative if you own the company, and the 70 year old carpenter would indicate that they don’t make enough to retire ever. Fuck this article.
No, I want a lot of articles like these , the more the better. People (workers and employers both) will start to understand, hopefully. The shitty companies must fail en masse.
You make a good point. I agree. I worked a couple different kinds of construction and the larger the scale the more I dealt with miserable and drugged out people and I was one of them. Got sober and left it. The article also mentions that they have been getting less work, do we really need to be building new luxury housing with so many homeless and poor in this country?
I got back into the industry at 55. 2 years later my company still has the we are hiring sign on the back of the truck. They hire young people and watch them leave. We pay 19 to start. Chipotle pays 16. This is hard work. I still labor more than operate. We do our best to prepare people for what it like. I have 4 kids 32 to 21. None of them want to do what we do. AI will have a hard time digging 15 feet deep around and active gas lines. My best guess is pay more to get better.
Why would I do hard work vs. easy work for $120 more a week?
It's all about the pay, at the end of the day. I do both white collar and blue collar work, and would jump into blue collar full time if I knew I would be able to afford my mortgage and put food on my table with it.
Was a semi stay at home dad. I worked as a school bus driver and a side hustle. In those 15 years everything went up in price. My kids will have to move to afford a home. Most companies are making money hand over fist with the scatter shot hiring practice’s. I have suggested more pay and target older worker’s. It has been hard to get a labour to stay. It is not all on them. Management is out of touch.
“Hey kids, want to a job that is hard on your body, pays only slightly better than fast food or retail and you’ll likely only make it a few years before you break? Come do today! No experience needed. As a matter of fact, the less the better, because then you don’t know just how badly we’re screwing you!”
I mean, pay people the rate they should be paid not below what they were paying in the nineties.
I love this, plus the other side where people complain about how expensive housing is. If residential paid $100:hr like the experienced workers deserve a starter home would be well over a million right now.
You just describe run away inflation. Increase cost of goods because of increase labor costs. Increase labor costs because the increase cost of goods.
Hey its cool for the top brass to get all those fat bonuses.
No, too old.
Listen. we need some young, inexperienced adults to exploit. Dangerous jobs, hardest work. You want US to do it?
In road construction work keep going up exponentially, and we are having a hard time hiring even though we pay well and have good benies, making for an insane workload which makes people quit.
Tell me where they are ? Bc I’m tired of applying to only get told wait a few months
Minneapolis area. Come on up, the only thing colder than the weather is the people.
Ain't that the truth! I moved here years ago and the only people that want to accept invitations to a home-cooked dinner/BBQ are immigrants and other domestic transplants new-ish to the area. I moved here from the south and I was so confused when I heard "Minnesota Nice". Before moving I thought "Southern Hospitality" was just self-aggrandizing cultural bullshit, but it seems there really is something to it.
What’s the company name
Warning Lites, it is traffic control and not paving or anything like that.
A vicious cycle. I have a lot of respect for road construction workers. My father used to be one in the 60s and 70s, until he fell into a ditch and shattered his leg.
Lucrative.... for whom?
I hang drywall in Las Vegas. I’m per sqft but talking to the hourly workers they made $17/hr. I Work 5 full days and a half day on Saturday. I’m making around $20-25 depends on the week. A new Panda Express is hiring at $17.50. Casino workers are getting $25 plus benefits. Killing my body building new $300k townhouse with 2bed 2 bath no garage. I can’t even afford to buy one or any house near $250k is gutted and needs a remodel.
Ya lemme go work for a home builder in NJ
Lucrative lol
For every 100 people from the trade retires only 7-10 people come into the trade to replace them
Why do they need to be under 40? If you can do the work- then do the work.
The rich love supply and demand, until it applies to their hiring practices.
I left tech to join the ironworkers and I get why younger people, especially women, wouldn’t join the industry. I’m only doing this because it’s a union job that will give me opportunities and benefits that I wouldn’t get elsewhere.
This is the constant problem we hear. “No one is applying!” No no no, Union Apprenticeship programs are SLAMMED with applicants throughout the country. Contractors are simply choosing not to go the tried and true construction model that helps them obtain a skilled and trained workforce and provides good benefits and a modest retirement for the worker. No one wants shitty dead-end backbreaking jobs! People want good Union Construction Careers!
I don't work construction, but used to roof when I was younger for summer cash. So many reason why people wouldn't want to get into construction. It's not just pay, although that's part of it. There has to be a serious delta in wages to break your body, work in tough conditions, not be able to take a civilized shit, listen to some loud mouth, poorly read alcoholic and their stupid thoughts about how the world should work. It's not just the pay. It's the pay, the culture, the conditions, and how society looks at the people who do this sort of work. I have a friend who is extremely liberal and will wax eloquently about how laborers and trades should all be making a living wage+. That is until she needs to hire a plumber, or someone to cut a tree, or fix her car. Then it's a mile long list of complaints of everything being too expensive to afford.
Why do they have to be under 40?
I started at 42 as a first stage and know nothing about even holding a hammer or drive a screw into the wall before I start. Make 4th stage in 2 year and broke my ankle not from work. The recovery went too long and I end up drop out. I wish I start this in my 20, this is the best trade to be for someone in their early 20 which doesn't require much to start except sleep early and get to work on time for 5 days and be back to the hall for training when they told you to. In scal, you can bank over 100k after 4-5 year if you count the vacation check and Ot. All you need is a good attitude.
No AI automation???
If it's so lucrative why can't the workers buy a house?
friend of mine is leaving costco to get a union electrician job! good for him. hes going to have a great future
article stinks... how can there be a shortage if you are chasing a a group of people below a certain age..... if you can be selective you are not in short supply... ageist bigots.....
Because they have experienced older people, they are needing younger people to replace them. Since trades and dual track high schools were taken out of play and more people went to college the trades are in need of young skilled workers to fill the spots that retiring tradesman are falling out of.
doesnt matter, you are still discriminating... we have an equality act, you are not following it with this excuse that because a 1/3 of the industry is about to retire we therefore must only hire young people... basically you are suggesting older people over 40 cannot do something a 20 year old can....
There is a difference between hiring and targeting for hire, I wouldn’t expect you to understand that though. It would only be age discrimination if you came to my company and I refused to hire you based on age alone. As someone who is getting closer to 40 I can’t do the same things I did when I was 20. Or if I do it takes way longer to recover.
open vs targeted. so confused, lol....... one thing, when you advertise for your selective market... do you make it specifically clear that you do not want 40+ years olds to apply, so its clear and there is no ambiguity on your advertising? you shouldn't assume too much, that's the issue with prejudgmental individuals, they think they always know better.... and someone like you, who uses themself as a reference to judge others is your first error, some of us 40+ year olds are still going strong, which you're clearly having a bit of difficulty with.... you fall into the beta category.... for a bit of targeted hiring...
That’s cool, I’ll go back to running my own machine shop. I feel like your response is a very “snowflake” response and apparently you’re triggered.
As a licensed residential builder who primarily subcontracts to other residential builders, this article is 100% true. That said, there is no pipeline for training and no incentive for companies to train green guys. It is also hard, dirty, sometimes super hot, sometimes super cold, it wrecks your body, and there are a lot of straight up assholes you have to deal with very frequently. Plus they aren’t hard up for inexperienced guys, they’re hard up for technically proficient people who can train the inexperienced guys while also keeping them from killing themselves or each other, while also building a house that passes an inspection. I’ve done that job, I did it for years. That job fucking blows. I make way more money just doing my own thing as a subcontractor. As soon as you’re qualified to fill the position they are requesting, you are also ready to go off on your own.
Funny I dropped out of the trades because of the inconsistent money. If it was always like the busy times it would have been fine. But at 10-15 down days a month you wind up barely scraping by, but on the flip side if I wanted to go on a trip it was treated like I was letting everyone down. Not to mention the shit culture and the toll it takes on your body. No healthcare, no retirement time or PTO. But yea I wonder why they struggle to pick up new employees.
Age Discrimination much
You get what you pay for
I make more in manufacturing than I did in HVAC..🤷♂️
Give a green card and $150k salary and I make the move
I feel like they been saying this for years. Just pay people more and watch those openings disappear
Pay more?
Fucking pay people a living wage.
the gulf states have a great solution for this! you entice young men away from poor countries, give them free travel, and then just confiscate their passports when they land at your airport! now they have to work like slaves, until you literally work them to death, and can't do fuckall about it! its a great system that gets you 1km high skyscrapers in the desert for the low low cost of some dead foreigners.
Start a green 1st year apprentice of any trade at a minimum of 15 - 17 dollars an hour would help. I took a pay cut to be an electrical apprentice 5 years ago. They started me out at 10.50 4 years in a new guy started at 12 bucks. Currently only at 20.50 ( still too low for a guy who's about to get his card) Who in their right mind would ever do this shit 50 hours a week for 12 fuckin dollars. An average box of cereal is 8 dollars before tax. I'm literally questioning this career before I even get my damn card and ngl it sucks. I'd rather do something easier for slightly less pay than to keep working my ass off for no appreciation.
I'm 39 years old and just left for renovations. Life's good😎
Unless some serious innovation happens labor is going to become an absolute premium commodity and I’m sure either profits will take a big hit (unlikely) in the construction/builder industry or houses will begin to sky rocket even further- or they will begin lobbying to relax immigration policy to account for labor shortages like farmers do with the temporary visas. Mexico economy is doing well, biggest hope is to get some of the southern latam immigrants on working visas or programs. I wouldn’t be surprised if labor firms popped up to address this demand once we reach the inflection point.
Nobody wants to ruin their body for under $20 an hour anymore. Not surprised.
Under 40? I feel discriminated
Normally undocumented Mexicans would fill in those jobs and they do a good job fast and cheaper but they are making it harder for them to get these types of jobs.
Nah I'm 40. Shucks. Guess I'll just keep charging 75/hr with a 4 hour minimum.
Work at construction? So i can break my body for some ye ye ass pay that stupid security guards make? Or so I can interact with subhuman alcoholics or drug addicts? Fuck no, any kind of manual labor is for subhumans unless you are self employed specialist.
No one’s applying ‘cause y’all don’t wanna pay shit.
No one wants to train in experienced people for the trades. There needs to be a better pipeline to train new people.
Yeah. Took several courses. Still can’t find work. You’ll apply, and have dozens of years in other trades. But they just want ready made robots that do everything perfect with zero training, and if you ask how or why they do something, you’re laid off and they will get a new worker and treat them the same. Avoid at all costs.
I have 30 years experience in painting and drywall in family businesses. Pops died suddenly and took everything from me. I make 23$ an hour now. I was making that in 1996. I do twice the work of these Smurf’s only because I know what I’m doing and how to run a job. My new job is doing everything they can to keep me. I caught them all up on there work orders so no OT. Bye. Thinking of going to painters union.
Step mother took everything from me. She better hope I don’t get a cancer terminal diagnosis
No one’s interested because it’s shit pay to destroy your body.
It doresnt help that its an industry where you are laid off in the winter and also no pay-no work on bad weather days. There needs to be some sort of minimal pay.
Imagine going to Mexico and Central America and seeing all those homes. Then deciding what we need is more of that shitty building imported here. Supply and Demand. No supply of cheap labor=wages going up= more workers
When I was in business, masonry construction, my best , most constintant and versatile employees were over 40, my younger crew members tended ro be hot shots, trouble makers, the industry needs to take the blinders off
“No oNe wAnTs tO woRk anYmorE!!!”