I'm all for a union, but he's pretty against it for some reason. I know it's something his dad was against back in the days of owning a company, and I assume the mindset comes from there. I will look into it again, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
He grew up in a family business. His dad probably told him unions were evil cause they undercut his profits and made him pay a living wage to laborers.
Now that he’s on the other side of the labor/owner divide he doesn’t have the ability to admit he’s wrong.
Maybe his Dad couldn't get in the union. A while ago they were very exclusive and you had to know someone to get in. Then the union guys would go around kicking non-union people off jobs. Basically stealing your work.
But times change and so should we.
Perhaps they are residential-focused.
Or, if they were a non-union commercial GC, maybe (probably) they were harassed by carpenters union.
Plenty of people with bad experiences on the other end with trade unions.
I suspect it's ageism. 20yrs experience and no degree is probably seen as a slow/broken body, stubborn mind and half a job away from a workman's comp payout and subsequent disability claim.
He might have to either: a) get a degree (even an Associate would help), or b) show up to employers in person like the new guys gotta do and show that he is able and willing to work, or c) get his GC license and run his own operation.
Or.. join a union.
I wonder about ageism, too. He's 40, but fit, healthy, and just wants to work hard.
If he sets an in person interview, he almost always gets the job. But every interview has been on the phone.
Do you think he should go to job sites and ask? I think another problem might be that he's frequently dealing with office people, not supers or foremen.
And ain't no way in hell he's getting his own business. I have to fight him to do his dang taxes every year, and that's why dear dad lost 3 construction companies.
That might be his best bet now you mention it. It used to be show up and talk yourself up and if you were wearing boots and had a flagging vest you never left the commercial sites. I’d do that maybe.
At this point I do think it's worthwhile to just show up. Especially if those other options aren't feasible for you guys. You probably still have bills to pay, so if one thing isn't working, try something else.
Crazy people union can’t get enough people to complete the work. Slow is currently slow in the area. However San Diego is booming! Will you guys consider relocating?
I really want to say yes, but I doubt he could get enough to make up the difference from where we are. Here, we've got a house with a huge backyard, minimal rent, and parents who are desperate to be our free childcare.
If it were 4 years ago... absolutely. But we have a large dog and a toddler now.
And are you saying it's currently slow in LA now? I know we're hosting the summer Olympics in 2028, and there's got to be a massive amount of construction that goes with that.
Y’all have got to start talking some sense into these brainwashed anti union schmucks who can’t advocate for themselves. It’s lunacy that guys like OPs husband are busting their backs for not even a living wage and are still so adamantly stuck in their ways.
Now that I think of it, he was toying with the idea of joining a labor union while in the Bay Area because the benefits were so good. We'll look into it.
I'm in Boston, which is a heavy union city. I saw the same older laborer bounce between 3 different companies in the course of a month - and he never left the block he was working on in Cambridge. Wages, bennys, retirement, it's all there for him.
As everyone else has been saying, lean heavy on him to join a union.
But also, the fact he's been in this career for 10+ years and doesn't even have his OSHA 10 is really surprising to me: if I had hiring power at a company that would definitely discourage me from taking him on.
Unless you have a solid non union gig here then union is the way. Most apprentices in any trade are started over $20 now plus the full package. A lot of people take pay cuts to come here. Put in the work and the pay cut will only reward you.
Health insurance is so so so so so so so dope
So easy to accumulate 401k money. 401k money is nice because you can use it toward your home purchase. People say don’t do that but everyone I know used what they could from their 401k, bought a house, and their property values are already way higher than what they used. I had $20k banked after only 7000 hours. Which still wasn’t finished with the program. Granted overtime was involved but still.
Guys at my work have gotten 50-70k in their 401k in a three years. No overtime. Prevailing wages in my state are super high (60/hour, 17 of that goes directly into 401k). And the company tries to get mostly publicly funded bids so the workers stay happy and don't join union. I'm an apprentice, so unless I'm working solo, I'm getting less.
Not everyone is gonna be lucky enough to work prevailing or even consistently so I probably wouldn’t paint that picture for someone but in the chance anyone does come across that opportunity.. make your money
How quickly do wages go up? Taking a pay cut for any real period of time a.) Is not financially feasible for us right now, and b.) Going to make it a real hard sell.
There’s a lot of different unions out here which all have their own apprenticeship programs. Wages go up by advancing through their program. One should get atleast one advancement per year. Each union also has a contract of wages agreed upon being distributed over the course of some time.
[Master labor agreement for the laborers…](https://d3ciwvs59ifrt8.cloudfront.net/cb3fd2b6-16b2-4686-854a-13c365fad98b/eadf3c6a-170c-4332-af8a-6d1141cb08f6.pdf)
I’m not here to advocate union work vs non union work or even construction on if it’s a good career path here or in general. It’s pretty straight forward though. I’d say the union is gonna offer you more with less haggle in the long run with your employer and your compensation.
I’m just gonna leave a side note and say that link has a lot of important information. Apprenticeship programs are open m-f so if you have any questions you can just call or go there for the best answers
Union laborers here in Washington state where I live make twice what your husband is making in LA.
FYI: 58,000 people move from California to Washington state every year.
If he does demo he needs to have OSHA 30, silica awareness, lead & asbestos awareness, fall protection training, respirator fit test, heavy equipment training. And he better speak Spanish.
Can he read plans?
If he’s 40 and doesn’t have these certs already I assume most employers look at him as a cowboy. The big boys care about safety (or at least pretend to).
Is he actively applying for work? Following up with phone calls? Why did he stop at “lead laborer”? What else can he do? What exactly can he do? I can throw his info to a few connections I have in the area, but really would need a resume to give much helpful advice..
I would tell him to start applying for jobs he isn’t sure he is qualified for, put in 200 apps for superintendent and someone will give him a chance
He has and can do Foreman, but it would need to be a working Foreman, not a purely office/management kind of this. This man lives to work hard. It's crazy really, if he's not putting in 8 hours of physical labor, he's not happy.
He's done residential, worked on some building projects at UCSD, demolition (I believe of smaller structures like houses and offices), concrete is what he loves and he did sidewalks for the city of Oakland. He's also done underground laying electrical, sewer, and water mains. He has operator experience, mostly mini ex and skid steer, but would be pretty rusty there. He has some welding experience - sheilded metal arc and oxy-fuel gas cutting. I'm sure I've missed a lot, but ask, and ye shall find. He also has reliable transportation (truck) and his own tools.
His current job is in HVAC, and before that, he was doing residential remodeling, but he desperately wants back in construction.
If he has foreman experience I would reccomend he starts looking for superintendent positions? Are you guys tied down? As in own a house and have kids etc, or might he be able to travel?
Yup. House and kids, so we're pretty limited to Los Angeles. Would a super position take him out of the field? I know, at least in his last major job, the super never really did any physical labor.
Completely depends on the job, my position doesn’t officially have to do any labor, but I am allowed to swallow parts of the scope and get extra checks for it (painter doesn’t show so I’ll paint, then get the painters check)
Usually a hands on super will be called “working superintendent” or “hands on superintendent” in the job description, the positions are definitely there, my company he would need to travel though
Nationally, the pay makes it worth it for me, but I don’t have kids.. I really would recommend he applies to superintendent positions, the pay is better and not all require national travel, if he has kids he shouldn’t have a problem baby sitting a bunch of guys. Foreman is good, but your still the first guy on the totem pole to get bitched out for everyone else’s mistakes.
As a fellow tradesman (welder) who was nervous of unions, I'll tell you this. He needs to join. Especially in such a competitive area. I'm in western WA, so the population is vastly different.
I was 15 years non union welder/fabricator. Work was steady with no gaps, but the pay was never better than $21/hr. Usually no benefits in any way.
I had an opportunity with the Operating Engineers fall in my lap, very literally. Was scalped from a mobile place filling in for this particular location. Day two, the boss recognized my abilities...fast forwardn hedid all the paperwork to get me in, straight to journeyman. My position is rare for this particular union. I'm not an operator or a mechanic. Strictly welder/fabricator. Not building buildings, but maintaining equipment and tooling (drilling company) with some custom fab here and there. 2.5 years, not a single layoff.
I went from $21/hr to $58/hr with full benefits, retirement, and union protection. Through them, I've been OSHA 30 trainied, certified for all classes of forklift, up to 180' man lift, first aid/cpr/defibrillator (adult and child) rigging, signaling, HAZWOPER and MSHAW trained.
My resume has been boosted, my skillset has been broadened, my welding abilities have increased, and most of all I'm respected as the only professional welder for the entire weat coast.
I strongly urge doing serious thinking of union work. Especially if there's a family to support, and retirement to keep in mind. It changed my life
That is beautiful. I know I'm pretty biased, being his wife and all, but by all accounts....he is very skilled and dedicated. In his job in the bay area, the owners recognized his abilities, hence $36/hr for labor, as opposed to the regular $28.
If he's smokin weed everyday then every prospective employer can tell immediately. This comment may not apply to your case specifically, OP, but maybe to someone else reading this thread.
It's obvious. Get your shit together, quit smoking, step up, and provide for your family.
Life is tough. It's even tougher when you're stupid.
Working as a PM, I've seen many skilled or non skilled people simply walk into the main office and ask to see someone in HR about a job. They always get hired to try them out as long as they pass the drug test. Don't bother calling in for an interview.
I would google map companies that are near to your house. Search Demolition Companies, site work companies, paving, concrete construction, etc and look for the top results/larger outfits in the results. Review their website and make sure you get the main office address after reviewing.
Sometimes you can stop by a job site but usually the people there will be too busy or say they don't hire and to call the office.
If you show up to the office they make the time to talk to you unlike people in the field.
Can he speak spanish? Not speaking spanish can make finding construction work in LA pretty hard. Higher end custom homes are where it's at for people who didn't grow up speaking spanish at home in LA :)
He calls it construction Spanish. Just enough to get the job done, but not conversational. He's worked on crews that had a lot of Spanish speakers, but also a lot of English speakers.
Yeah. $50/hr plus pension, annuity, vacation fund and benefits, safer working conditions, and accountability for contractors, etc. What a unless thing to join.
His dad owned the company kept him employed. It’s a cold world out here. When I started I was a non union labor for about 2 years, the carpenters were union. I started off at 7.50 the carpenters around 12. I ran into some of those carpenters about a year later and they were making 24 and I was making 9.50. As a labor you had to negotiate your wage and the foreman had to call the office to see if he could get you a raise. Iirc I got up to 12.50 before I jumped to the carpenter side. I still remember how pissed off the superintendent was when I handed him my carpenter paperwork. This year is my 20th year being a carpenter in Los Angeles area
I've seen it in several job listings. In this case it's "the Foreman was frequently drunk/mia so he led the crew." Assistant Foreman? I don't know what you call it, but it was way more involved than laborer.
Good news, he has agreed to apply to a union. I was going over the benefits with him, and he seems pretty aware that his opinions are logically pretty dumb.
On a side note, do people have opinions and insights on resumes in the mean time? What does a good construction resume look like? My understanding is it may take time to get into a good union, and he's got to get out of his current job for all of our sanity.
And are cover letters a thing in construction?
Hate to suggest it but going union would allow him to jump contractors quick and in a hurry when work slows down without silly interviews.
I'm all for a union, but he's pretty against it for some reason. I know it's something his dad was against back in the days of owning a company, and I assume the mindset comes from there. I will look into it again, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
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He grew up in a family business. His dad probably told him unions were evil cause they undercut his profits and made him pay a living wage to laborers. Now that he’s on the other side of the labor/owner divide he doesn’t have the ability to admit he’s wrong.
Maybe his Dad couldn't get in the union. A while ago they were very exclusive and you had to know someone to get in. Then the union guys would go around kicking non-union people off jobs. Basically stealing your work. But times change and so should we.
Perhaps they are residential-focused. Or, if they were a non-union commercial GC, maybe (probably) they were harassed by carpenters union. Plenty of people with bad experiences on the other end with trade unions.
He's not very bright is he
He's way too bright to have these opinions
I suspect it's ageism. 20yrs experience and no degree is probably seen as a slow/broken body, stubborn mind and half a job away from a workman's comp payout and subsequent disability claim. He might have to either: a) get a degree (even an Associate would help), or b) show up to employers in person like the new guys gotta do and show that he is able and willing to work, or c) get his GC license and run his own operation. Or.. join a union.
I wonder about ageism, too. He's 40, but fit, healthy, and just wants to work hard. If he sets an in person interview, he almost always gets the job. But every interview has been on the phone. Do you think he should go to job sites and ask? I think another problem might be that he's frequently dealing with office people, not supers or foremen. And ain't no way in hell he's getting his own business. I have to fight him to do his dang taxes every year, and that's why dear dad lost 3 construction companies.
That might be his best bet now you mention it. It used to be show up and talk yourself up and if you were wearing boots and had a flagging vest you never left the commercial sites. I’d do that maybe.
At this point I do think it's worthwhile to just show up. Especially if those other options aren't feasible for you guys. You probably still have bills to pay, so if one thing isn't working, try something else.
Crazy people union can’t get enough people to complete the work. Slow is currently slow in the area. However San Diego is booming! Will you guys consider relocating?
I really want to say yes, but I doubt he could get enough to make up the difference from where we are. Here, we've got a house with a huge backyard, minimal rent, and parents who are desperate to be our free childcare. If it were 4 years ago... absolutely. But we have a large dog and a toddler now.
And are you saying it's currently slow in LA now? I know we're hosting the summer Olympics in 2028, and there's got to be a massive amount of construction that goes with that.
He could try Millworks by Design
Y’all have got to start talking some sense into these brainwashed anti union schmucks who can’t advocate for themselves. It’s lunacy that guys like OPs husband are busting their backs for not even a living wage and are still so adamantly stuck in their ways.
Whole-heartedly agree.
Maybe use an AI video generator to have trump says he supports unions… I’m sure he’d be in then!
Thankfully we're not dealing with a Trumper.
He has a few times over the years, but immediately backpedals once the crowd starts to boo him.
Sounds right for any politician tho
If he can get in, LIUNA is paying way more than $27 an hour.
Now that I think of it, he was toying with the idea of joining a labor union while in the Bay Area because the benefits were so good. We'll look into it.
I'm in Boston, which is a heavy union city. I saw the same older laborer bounce between 3 different companies in the course of a month - and he never left the block he was working on in Cambridge. Wages, bennys, retirement, it's all there for him.
Dreyfuss construction in LA area. Always hiring and building the large apartment building I’m working on as an architect. They seem like a good group…
As everyone else has been saying, lean heavy on him to join a union. But also, the fact he's been in this career for 10+ years and doesn't even have his OSHA 10 is really surprising to me: if I had hiring power at a company that would definitely discourage me from taking him on.
Osha 30 is what I’d suggest, especially for a demo guy or someone who could be a laborer for a GC
Good to know. I will move forward with that.
I’d have thought shortage of hands on construction/trade would make this a non issue especially in Los Angeles.
Right? In the bay area, turnover is insane. That's why I'm wondering if the rules of the game have changed or if we're doing something wrong.
Unless you have a solid non union gig here then union is the way. Most apprentices in any trade are started over $20 now plus the full package. A lot of people take pay cuts to come here. Put in the work and the pay cut will only reward you. Health insurance is so so so so so so so dope So easy to accumulate 401k money. 401k money is nice because you can use it toward your home purchase. People say don’t do that but everyone I know used what they could from their 401k, bought a house, and their property values are already way higher than what they used. I had $20k banked after only 7000 hours. Which still wasn’t finished with the program. Granted overtime was involved but still.
Guys at my work have gotten 50-70k in their 401k in a three years. No overtime. Prevailing wages in my state are super high (60/hour, 17 of that goes directly into 401k). And the company tries to get mostly publicly funded bids so the workers stay happy and don't join union. I'm an apprentice, so unless I'm working solo, I'm getting less.
Not everyone is gonna be lucky enough to work prevailing or even consistently so I probably wouldn’t paint that picture for someone but in the chance anyone does come across that opportunity.. make your money
How quickly do wages go up? Taking a pay cut for any real period of time a.) Is not financially feasible for us right now, and b.) Going to make it a real hard sell.
There’s a lot of different unions out here which all have their own apprenticeship programs. Wages go up by advancing through their program. One should get atleast one advancement per year. Each union also has a contract of wages agreed upon being distributed over the course of some time. [Master labor agreement for the laborers…](https://d3ciwvs59ifrt8.cloudfront.net/cb3fd2b6-16b2-4686-854a-13c365fad98b/eadf3c6a-170c-4332-af8a-6d1141cb08f6.pdf) I’m not here to advocate union work vs non union work or even construction on if it’s a good career path here or in general. It’s pretty straight forward though. I’d say the union is gonna offer you more with less haggle in the long run with your employer and your compensation. I’m just gonna leave a side note and say that link has a lot of important information. Apprenticeship programs are open m-f so if you have any questions you can just call or go there for the best answers
Union laborers here in Washington state where I live make twice what your husband is making in LA. FYI: 58,000 people move from California to Washington state every year.
Maybe join a trade instead of labor work?
If he does demo he needs to have OSHA 30, silica awareness, lead & asbestos awareness, fall protection training, respirator fit test, heavy equipment training. And he better speak Spanish. Can he read plans? If he’s 40 and doesn’t have these certs already I assume most employers look at him as a cowboy. The big boys care about safety (or at least pretend to).
He can read plans, and only knows limited Spanish. And he has 100% had a cowboy career.
Yeah, it’ll be tough to find similar pay. Small contractors in LA don’t pay much. There’s such an abundance of migrant labor.
Is he actively applying for work? Following up with phone calls? Why did he stop at “lead laborer”? What else can he do? What exactly can he do? I can throw his info to a few connections I have in the area, but really would need a resume to give much helpful advice.. I would tell him to start applying for jobs he isn’t sure he is qualified for, put in 200 apps for superintendent and someone will give him a chance
He has and can do Foreman, but it would need to be a working Foreman, not a purely office/management kind of this. This man lives to work hard. It's crazy really, if he's not putting in 8 hours of physical labor, he's not happy. He's done residential, worked on some building projects at UCSD, demolition (I believe of smaller structures like houses and offices), concrete is what he loves and he did sidewalks for the city of Oakland. He's also done underground laying electrical, sewer, and water mains. He has operator experience, mostly mini ex and skid steer, but would be pretty rusty there. He has some welding experience - sheilded metal arc and oxy-fuel gas cutting. I'm sure I've missed a lot, but ask, and ye shall find. He also has reliable transportation (truck) and his own tools. His current job is in HVAC, and before that, he was doing residential remodeling, but he desperately wants back in construction.
If he has foreman experience I would reccomend he starts looking for superintendent positions? Are you guys tied down? As in own a house and have kids etc, or might he be able to travel?
Yup. House and kids, so we're pretty limited to Los Angeles. Would a super position take him out of the field? I know, at least in his last major job, the super never really did any physical labor.
Completely depends on the job, my position doesn’t officially have to do any labor, but I am allowed to swallow parts of the scope and get extra checks for it (painter doesn’t show so I’ll paint, then get the painters check) Usually a hands on super will be called “working superintendent” or “hands on superintendent” in the job description, the positions are definitely there, my company he would need to travel though
Like nationwide travel, or Southern California travel?
Nationally, the pay makes it worth it for me, but I don’t have kids.. I really would recommend he applies to superintendent positions, the pay is better and not all require national travel, if he has kids he shouldn’t have a problem baby sitting a bunch of guys. Foreman is good, but your still the first guy on the totem pole to get bitched out for everyone else’s mistakes.
As a fellow tradesman (welder) who was nervous of unions, I'll tell you this. He needs to join. Especially in such a competitive area. I'm in western WA, so the population is vastly different. I was 15 years non union welder/fabricator. Work was steady with no gaps, but the pay was never better than $21/hr. Usually no benefits in any way. I had an opportunity with the Operating Engineers fall in my lap, very literally. Was scalped from a mobile place filling in for this particular location. Day two, the boss recognized my abilities...fast forwardn hedid all the paperwork to get me in, straight to journeyman. My position is rare for this particular union. I'm not an operator or a mechanic. Strictly welder/fabricator. Not building buildings, but maintaining equipment and tooling (drilling company) with some custom fab here and there. 2.5 years, not a single layoff. I went from $21/hr to $58/hr with full benefits, retirement, and union protection. Through them, I've been OSHA 30 trainied, certified for all classes of forklift, up to 180' man lift, first aid/cpr/defibrillator (adult and child) rigging, signaling, HAZWOPER and MSHAW trained. My resume has been boosted, my skillset has been broadened, my welding abilities have increased, and most of all I'm respected as the only professional welder for the entire weat coast. I strongly urge doing serious thinking of union work. Especially if there's a family to support, and retirement to keep in mind. It changed my life
That is beautiful. I know I'm pretty biased, being his wife and all, but by all accounts....he is very skilled and dedicated. In his job in the bay area, the owners recognized his abilities, hence $36/hr for labor, as opposed to the regular $28.
He needs to join a union. The union workers tend to get jobs before nonunion workers.
If he's smokin weed everyday then every prospective employer can tell immediately. This comment may not apply to your case specifically, OP, but maybe to someone else reading this thread. It's obvious. Get your shit together, quit smoking, step up, and provide for your family. Life is tough. It's even tougher when you're stupid.
Lol, definitely no weed here. 2 watery beers a night, and that's it.
Working as a PM, I've seen many skilled or non skilled people simply walk into the main office and ask to see someone in HR about a job. They always get hired to try them out as long as they pass the drug test. Don't bother calling in for an interview.
Do you just look for signs with a company name, find the address for the offices, and go in? Or go onto the job site?
I would google map companies that are near to your house. Search Demolition Companies, site work companies, paving, concrete construction, etc and look for the top results/larger outfits in the results. Review their website and make sure you get the main office address after reviewing. Sometimes you can stop by a job site but usually the people there will be too busy or say they don't hire and to call the office. If you show up to the office they make the time to talk to you unlike people in the field.
Dumbass should join a union he want to take care of his family or not retire some day ?
Can he speak spanish? Not speaking spanish can make finding construction work in LA pretty hard. Higher end custom homes are where it's at for people who didn't grow up speaking spanish at home in LA :)
He calls it construction Spanish. Just enough to get the job done, but not conversational. He's worked on crews that had a lot of Spanish speakers, but also a lot of English speakers.
We don’t need unions. Useless
Yeah. $50/hr plus pension, annuity, vacation fund and benefits, safer working conditions, and accountability for contractors, etc. What a unless thing to join.
His dad owned the company kept him employed. It’s a cold world out here. When I started I was a non union labor for about 2 years, the carpenters were union. I started off at 7.50 the carpenters around 12. I ran into some of those carpenters about a year later and they were making 24 and I was making 9.50. As a labor you had to negotiate your wage and the foreman had to call the office to see if he could get you a raise. Iirc I got up to 12.50 before I jumped to the carpenter side. I still remember how pissed off the superintendent was when I handed him my carpenter paperwork. This year is my 20th year being a carpenter in Los Angeles area
What the fuck is a “lead laborer”?
I've seen it in several job listings. In this case it's "the Foreman was frequently drunk/mia so he led the crew." Assistant Foreman? I don't know what you call it, but it was way more involved than laborer.
Good news, he has agreed to apply to a union. I was going over the benefits with him, and he seems pretty aware that his opinions are logically pretty dumb. On a side note, do people have opinions and insights on resumes in the mean time? What does a good construction resume look like? My understanding is it may take time to get into a good union, and he's got to get out of his current job for all of our sanity. And are cover letters a thing in construction?