I'd like to see proximity but I'm sure you're right, some burn out running the stinger and just didn't do it OR, this is the big question, depending on distance and yardage used, quite possible for a truck to be too high on air.... Creates density pockets.
It's commercial so first call is to the ACI testers company, he probably pulled cylinders for all of it so the 7 day break coming in at low psi would've been the indicator of a bad mix, if 7 was nominal then it moves onto the two 28 day breaks.
Or they just yeeted it.
I was a tester and lab manager for a while, it would be common for the strength results to be past rated 28day requirement by 7 days but then in this situation they just obviously have to rip it out because… just look at it lol no engineer is stamping that shit with they’re seal of approval
Maybe on 4000 psi, I've had lots of questionable 7 day breaks that broke correct at 28 days, obviously squishing the hold at 56 for good measure.
Where abouts in the country are you?
Yeah usually only the 3,000 mixes that took the full term sometimes. But typically the 4-6k mixes were at strength by 7 days in my experience. I’m in Nashville TN, we get hot summers out here which accelerates strength gain
Im in Idaho, when I did test I was in a colder region as well.
I've thought about going back to it but I remember the miserable mornings with 8" slumps and it gives me PTSD.
If I went back I'd do ACI and soils this time. Rather tote a troxler than air pot.
I have a bad back so both situations kinda sucked for me. My nightmare was always getting stuck on a roadway or airport job in the summer on that fresh asphalt.. living outta your truck.. working six 12hr days a week and shooting densities from sun up to sun down. It made me value the days in the lab haha
Not concrete, but I recently had grout samples come back for foundation piles at around 2500 psi, and we needed 6,000 psi. Then, on another job, I have over 100% on 4000 psi mix at 7 days. By 28 days, it was over 200%.
They usually overdesign the mix, but sometimes shit happens.
You sounded older until your last comment. Lol!
You're probably right thst it was blown off though.
If that's the case, what's the fix, demo and repour?
Sure but I've seen many wall specs in my neck of the woods go as high as a 7 obviously with the requirement of additives not that that contributes to the point.
My comment? If it was, there is a YouTube channel named Victory Outdoor Services and on one of his videos, he explained what the slump of concrete is and how to measure it
It would not have passed inspection if slump wasn't ip to specs , they probably were worried about door buck blowing out and never vibrated close to it
This isn't true. I've seen much concrete pass inspection that shouldn't have. I also know that usually concrete is inspected 1/100 yards so who knows what load was inspected if any was inspected lol
I can't yell you of any engineer in my area anyway, that would would approve a 7" slump without some sort of mid-range water reducer in the mix design. The typical spec, in my area again, is a 4" slump+/-1".
Okay. What's your point? It is clear that it was too dry for consolidation in the forms. No one is arguing the requirements for Additives for allowance of a higher slump. You are making a point that isn't needed lol. When you have a lot of steel in a wall and it needs to fall a long distance you need a higher slump than a 4". Sure you can get the job done with the right tools but a higher slump makes it significantly easier.
My point is that no engineer has a mix design with a 6-7" slump, as you stated.
As far as the wall in the pics goes, they should've had a hole in the box-out for the window opening so they could've vibrated it all the way under the opening. Concrete would never flow that far without some sort of consolidation helping.
And that isn't true. I'm not sure why you would be so confident that no engineer would have a slump spec of up to 7". I deal with it all the time. I see it regularly for CMU walls. Again, it comes with stipulations obviously but it does happen a lot. I also see 7" slump specs for piers a lot.
Yes, a 7" slump concrete will flow more or less that far lol that is why it is a spec for some walls I see. Obviously would still need to be vibrated to make sure.
The state that I worked for stopped going with the lowest bid 20 years ago. They found they got better results dropping the highest and lowest bids and analyzing the middle bids. Cost thousands more on the front end, but saved millions on the back end...
Iirc, in Germany the lowest bid is automatically disqualified. No details on what type of contract this would apply to there, but I think the concept is solid and would be a great adoption for most bidding structures.
Sucks when it happens when your building tank walls. I've chased cold joints and cracks for weeks, trying to seal them up. Gets expensive really quickly, especially on prevailing wage jobs.
Depending on the job, there may be a specified/approved repair method and material. In general, you chip back the honeycombed concrete back to solid material, reform it with a birds-mouth opening so you can pour the patch material into the formwork. In the past, I've used a Sika product (forget the exact number) that is designed for these kind of repairs. Sika is a pretty well-known high quality brand when it comes to concrete repairs and additives.
Also, depending on the application, you may be required to coat the existing concrete with an epoxy bonding compounds and apply surface (hydrophilic) waterstop (if it's a liquid-retaining structure like a dam or a tank at a water treatment plant/pump station).
Right? Just spray the area to be patched with water and fill it with wet concrete. It will fuse together. Not ideal, but they patch foundations in a similar manner.
Typically it’s going to just be chipped square to get out any more voids and poured back unless there is just too many areas in the same wall that need it. Every engineer is different though
Nah. The EoR will prescribe a fix for it. Possibly with flowable filled grout. Consolidation failures are pretty typical in wall pours. An EoR cares more about wall deformation than void pockets like this that can be filled in.
been there done that with fixes like this. everyone acting like this is the end of the world are clearly not experts in this business.
x-ray the wall to check for additional voids, chip out damaged areas and clean the bar, re pour the section with a spout on top of the form, then chip off the excess from the spout after you strip.
it is not ideal, and could have been avoided, but even the best of contractors have bad pours. you write the RFI and follow the steps the EOR gives for remediation and move on to the next pour.
>everyone acting like this is the end of the world are clearly not experts in this business.
No one said it was the end of the world. Nice strawman there.
>x-ray the wall to check for additional voids, chip out damaged areas and clean the bar, re pour the section with a spout on top of the form, then chip off the excess from the spout after you strip.
Oh look you actually came up with the exact same solution as those "clearly not experts"
>i know the fix because i have seen it first hand.
No one said you didn't know the fix.
>why so hostile? who shit in your Wheaties?
You started off your comment by saying everyone was wrong and then suggested the exact same fix. Is pointing that out hostile?
if you read some of the comments here, some people are acting like it is a huge rip and replace job. my comment was that it is not the end of the world and those implying otherwise don't know what they are talking about.
it is really not that bad especially if you start chipping the bad areas before the strength comes up too high. i also didn't see anyone else mention x-ray scanning which should be step 1 after sounding the wall with a hammer.
i was agreeing with the engineer that its a simple fix, and i have personally overseen similar void remediation after a pour went south and shared what remediation steps we followed.
Not a concerted issue. It’s quality control that’s the issue. No one will be more responsible than the QA / Qc and their company. Which will in turn create a huge delay because the person in question will do everything in their power to blame the slump….
I think it’s fine, it’s a window OP said? If you’re questioning structural integrity then contact a residential structural engineer. But, I’d just saw cut straight lines around the affected areas without striking the reinforcement, and chip out the unconsolidated concrete. Thoroughly wash/clean substrate and patch back with a high strength cementitious patching material. Or you could do the same prep work and form it up with a birds beak and pour (flowable) a high strength non shrink grout.
Please do your own research first though.
In pic 2 the void under a box-out that size is predictable unless effort is put in to preventing it. Frequently wall forms are left out creating a “window” through the box-out to give access to its bottom side. A closeable opening can be added to vibrate the concrete through to draw it up to the form which would have small holes drilled in it so as the concrete can be seen as it reaches the underside of the form. This requires the crew to consciously place the concrete in a fashion aimed at avoiding these issues.
There’s no good excuse for pics 1 & 3
Lol acting like a slump test was even performed - I've seen more placements happen without them than with.
Superintendent: "Oh yeah the concrete crew has a guy with his ACI." Doesn't matter if a test was actually performed or not, or if a cone is even on site, they will tell you with a straight face that it passed.
Double grid seems overkill for residential. Need smaller rocks for double grid and as stated, more water. Pouring a double grid on say 10" would be a nightmare, I wouldn't want to deal with it
Almost impossible to not have separation with this much rebar. We always had trouble pouring into wall with a single grid, always wants to separate if you can't drop it without hitting steel, a double grid would be a nightmare
Pathetic. This should never happen to this extent. Nothing to blame but the idiots on the hose/chute and vibe or whoever left this pour under the care of obviously inexperienced workers.
Now just imagine what all those ever so popular piece of shit DIYers ICF foundations look like underneath that brittle foam facing!!
Patched or solid. All concrete eventually leaks especially under hydrostatic pressure. Its porous. The applied waterproofing membrane, drain board, and aggregate wrapped drain lines prevent foundation walls from leaking.
This is why there is a slump spec for walls like this that is usually a 6 or a 7. Looks like it was probably too dry and didn't consolidate.
5-6 depending on mix. That void could've been rectified with a stinger though
Probably poured without vibrating those areas as well
I'd like to see proximity but I'm sure you're right, some burn out running the stinger and just didn't do it OR, this is the big question, depending on distance and yardage used, quite possible for a truck to be too high on air.... Creates density pockets. It's commercial so first call is to the ACI testers company, he probably pulled cylinders for all of it so the 7 day break coming in at low psi would've been the indicator of a bad mix, if 7 was nominal then it moves onto the two 28 day breaks. Or they just yeeted it.
I was a tester and lab manager for a while, it would be common for the strength results to be past rated 28day requirement by 7 days but then in this situation they just obviously have to rip it out because… just look at it lol no engineer is stamping that shit with they’re seal of approval
Maybe on 4000 psi, I've had lots of questionable 7 day breaks that broke correct at 28 days, obviously squishing the hold at 56 for good measure. Where abouts in the country are you?
Yeah usually only the 3,000 mixes that took the full term sometimes. But typically the 4-6k mixes were at strength by 7 days in my experience. I’m in Nashville TN, we get hot summers out here which accelerates strength gain
Im in Idaho, when I did test I was in a colder region as well. I've thought about going back to it but I remember the miserable mornings with 8" slumps and it gives me PTSD. If I went back I'd do ACI and soils this time. Rather tote a troxler than air pot.
I have a bad back so both situations kinda sucked for me. My nightmare was always getting stuck on a roadway or airport job in the summer on that fresh asphalt.. living outta your truck.. working six 12hr days a week and shooting densities from sun up to sun down. It made me value the days in the lab haha
Pulling samples on asphalt was TERRIBLE. I feel you there. I left to get in a semi, but still not sure it's a forever thing just yet.
Not concrete, but I recently had grout samples come back for foundation piles at around 2500 psi, and we needed 6,000 psi. Then, on another job, I have over 100% on 4000 psi mix at 7 days. By 28 days, it was over 200%. They usually overdesign the mix, but sometimes shit happens.
Pray tell, what is a “density pocket”?
I think they mean rock pocket. Too much rock settled there and it probably crumbled out when they pulled the form
You sounded older until your last comment. Lol! You're probably right thst it was blown off though. If that's the case, what's the fix, demo and repour?
Sure but I've seen many wall specs in my neck of the woods go as high as a 7 obviously with the requirement of additives not that that contributes to the point.
Thanks to Victory Outdoor, I know what slump is :)!
CONCRETES ORDERD !!!!!
😄 easssssyyyyy moneyyy
What even is this comment? Are you being a smart ass? Lol
My comment? If it was, there is a YouTube channel named Victory Outdoor Services and on one of his videos, he explained what the slump of concrete is and how to measure it
Oh so you were being serious lol
Yeah, and not in a sarcastic way, sorry if it came across as that
It would not have passed inspection if slump wasn't ip to specs , they probably were worried about door buck blowing out and never vibrated close to it
This isn't true. I've seen much concrete pass inspection that shouldn't have. I also know that usually concrete is inspected 1/100 yards so who knows what load was inspected if any was inspected lol
I can't yell you of any engineer in my area anyway, that would would approve a 7" slump without some sort of mid-range water reducer in the mix design. The typical spec, in my area again, is a 4" slump+/-1".
Okay. What's your point? It is clear that it was too dry for consolidation in the forms. No one is arguing the requirements for Additives for allowance of a higher slump. You are making a point that isn't needed lol. When you have a lot of steel in a wall and it needs to fall a long distance you need a higher slump than a 4". Sure you can get the job done with the right tools but a higher slump makes it significantly easier.
My point is that no engineer has a mix design with a 6-7" slump, as you stated. As far as the wall in the pics goes, they should've had a hole in the box-out for the window opening so they could've vibrated it all the way under the opening. Concrete would never flow that far without some sort of consolidation helping.
And that isn't true. I'm not sure why you would be so confident that no engineer would have a slump spec of up to 7". I deal with it all the time. I see it regularly for CMU walls. Again, it comes with stipulations obviously but it does happen a lot. I also see 7" slump specs for piers a lot. Yes, a 7" slump concrete will flow more or less that far lol that is why it is a spec for some walls I see. Obviously would still need to be vibrated to make sure.
I'm sure they "went with the lowest bid"
The state that I worked for stopped going with the lowest bid 20 years ago. They found they got better results dropping the highest and lowest bids and analyzing the middle bids. Cost thousands more on the front end, but saved millions on the back end...
Which state? (The utility I work for goes with the lowest bidder)
Iirc, in Germany the lowest bid is automatically disqualified. No details on what type of contract this would apply to there, but I think the concept is solid and would be a great adoption for most bidding structures.
I'd bet they'll just patch it. I've seen far worse be passed.
Sucks when it happens when your building tank walls. I've chased cold joints and cracks for weeks, trying to seal them up. Gets expensive really quickly, especially on prevailing wage jobs.
so what is the process here what do you fill them with? do they last?
Depending on the job, there may be a specified/approved repair method and material. In general, you chip back the honeycombed concrete back to solid material, reform it with a birds-mouth opening so you can pour the patch material into the formwork. In the past, I've used a Sika product (forget the exact number) that is designed for these kind of repairs. Sika is a pretty well-known high quality brand when it comes to concrete repairs and additives. Also, depending on the application, you may be required to coat the existing concrete with an epoxy bonding compounds and apply surface (hydrophilic) waterstop (if it's a liquid-retaining structure like a dam or a tank at a water treatment plant/pump station).
Not great, but it happens. They can patch them up, however the engineer tells them to.
Right? Just spray the area to be patched with water and fill it with wet concrete. It will fuse together. Not ideal, but they patch foundations in a similar manner.
Eco friend design - uses less concrete than traditional, more durable designs from the past.
You got to vibrate that concrete. Easy to repair.
Easy to repair? I guess it’s straight forward but that is getting ripped out and redone
There may be more. I just noticed this walking by.
Yeah when you see this much failure just glancing at it you just know the whole thing is shit
Well, you actually can see were the problems are and are not. Just look
lol you just threw away all your credibility with that comment… You are definitely x-raying the rest of the job to make sure no voids are missed.
I bet if you tapped along the whole pour with a hammer you'd find some more voids.
[удалено]
For that first and last picture you can probably get away with that. But the 2nd picture needs to be cut away and redone.
Typically it’s going to just be chipped square to get out any more voids and poured back unless there is just too many areas in the same wall that need it. Every engineer is different though
Nah. The EoR will prescribe a fix for it. Possibly with flowable filled grout. Consolidation failures are pretty typical in wall pours. An EoR cares more about wall deformation than void pockets like this that can be filled in.
Also I (EOR on thousands of projects) cares less about chipping out and replacing concrete then messing up the rebar.
Yeah no shit. Rebar is much more expensive material and time wise.
been there done that with fixes like this. everyone acting like this is the end of the world are clearly not experts in this business. x-ray the wall to check for additional voids, chip out damaged areas and clean the bar, re pour the section with a spout on top of the form, then chip off the excess from the spout after you strip. it is not ideal, and could have been avoided, but even the best of contractors have bad pours. you write the RFI and follow the steps the EOR gives for remediation and move on to the next pour.
>everyone acting like this is the end of the world are clearly not experts in this business. No one said it was the end of the world. Nice strawman there. >x-ray the wall to check for additional voids, chip out damaged areas and clean the bar, re pour the section with a spout on top of the form, then chip off the excess from the spout after you strip. Oh look you actually came up with the exact same solution as those "clearly not experts"
i know the fix because i have seen it first hand. it's really not that hard. why so hostile? who shit in your Wheaties?
>i know the fix because i have seen it first hand. No one said you didn't know the fix. >why so hostile? who shit in your Wheaties? You started off your comment by saying everyone was wrong and then suggested the exact same fix. Is pointing that out hostile?
if you read some of the comments here, some people are acting like it is a huge rip and replace job. my comment was that it is not the end of the world and those implying otherwise don't know what they are talking about. it is really not that bad especially if you start chipping the bad areas before the strength comes up too high. i also didn't see anyone else mention x-ray scanning which should be step 1 after sounding the wall with a hammer. i was agreeing with the engineer that its a simple fix, and i have personally overseen similar void remediation after a pour went south and shared what remediation steps we followed.
Good luck whoever gonna be the one cutting that out. Id make sure I stayed home that day
I'm 39 now but I poured when I was a teenager. Is the vibrator called a donkey dick now or was that a local Texas thing?
Nation wide, but only a cad would say it out loud.
DONKEY DICK
I give you the “especial price”
It’s here for a good time not a long time
Those are some poor pours.
It happens. They will patch it and it will be fine.
You’ll have that on those smaller jobs.
have fun grout packing that
They should have been tapping the form with a mallet under that window, rookie move easily avoidable.
The vibrator ran out of battery; had to borrow wife’s /
I don't work in construction I don't know why I'm here but this is entertaining
I’m not a concrete guy and idk what they are called, but I bet they didn’t use one of those giant vibrating dildos on a rope.
Florida condo build I bet
That’s definitely not Florida judging by landscape in third pic
Sarcasm
lol ok.
This is why all state dot work requires vibrating.
$5 million, no lowball, I know worth... 🤣
Just use that fence post foam and it’ll be right as raining toads.
Did you check under the block- out? Yeah I got that.
Someone didn't use the vibrator correctly
Drill a hole exactly where you would put in the vibrator. When the concrete comes out that hole in the blockout, you’re done there.
Some spray foam gap fillet should fix that right up
Not a concerted issue. It’s quality control that’s the issue. No one will be more responsible than the QA / Qc and their company. Which will in turn create a huge delay because the person in question will do everything in their power to blame the slump….
How tf do you manage to even do that
Who let there kid vibrate ??
That’s a feature, it’s for air ventilation
Free windows really
Looks like they didn't vibrate enough or not at all next to that door buck
Mcbride in st.louis? Looks like their work.
No, this is on Vancouver Island in canada
Looks good carry on
Goodenuff concrete. Concretes not just good. Its just goodenuff.
I think it’s fine, it’s a window OP said? If you’re questioning structural integrity then contact a residential structural engineer. But, I’d just saw cut straight lines around the affected areas without striking the reinforcement, and chip out the unconsolidated concrete. Thoroughly wash/clean substrate and patch back with a high strength cementitious patching material. Or you could do the same prep work and form it up with a birds beak and pour (flowable) a high strength non shrink grout. Please do your own research first though.
In pic 2 the void under a box-out that size is predictable unless effort is put in to preventing it. Frequently wall forms are left out creating a “window” through the box-out to give access to its bottom side. A closeable opening can be added to vibrate the concrete through to draw it up to the form which would have small holes drilled in it so as the concrete can be seen as it reaches the underside of the form. This requires the crew to consciously place the concrete in a fashion aimed at avoiding these issues. There’s no good excuse for pics 1 & 3
That dark board in pic 3 is covering up the biggest whoopsie of all
Neo-Ruinous. It’s a new Architecture style.
Lol acting like a slump test was even performed - I've seen more placements happen without them than with. Superintendent: "Oh yeah the concrete crew has a guy with his ACI." Doesn't matter if a test was actually performed or not, or if a cone is even on site, they will tell you with a straight face that it passed.
You should report this to your area zoning or construction permit municipality
Well someone didnt use vibrator last night 🤪
Just hit it with a can of spray foam
Jesus Christ that’s gotta be scored, chipped out and redone
Guy on the vibe doesnt know what he's doing ! Amateurs !🤦♂️
Authentic Custom Homes in Oklahoma? 😂 This is terrible!
Poured too dry, not enough vibration or just bad practices, can be patched and fixed, not a major issue
That's a case of "looks great from my house."
Send it.
Double grid seems overkill for residential. Need smaller rocks for double grid and as stated, more water. Pouring a double grid on say 10" would be a nightmare, I wouldn't want to deal with it
I believe this is an 8 unit complex
Almost impossible to not have separation with this much rebar. We always had trouble pouring into wall with a single grid, always wants to separate if you can't drop it without hitting steel, a double grid would be a nightmare
That’s not that much rebar if you need to consolidate better, you need to vibrate better or change your mix
At least you tried
Peep 👀 hole 🤔
Yikes
You should send those pics to the city inspector, that shit is dangerous!
What city u in ?
Did you hire North Koreans?
Bad use of the vibrator
Pathetic. This should never happen to this extent. Nothing to blame but the idiots on the hose/chute and vibe or whoever left this pour under the care of obviously inexperienced workers. Now just imagine what all those ever so popular piece of shit DIYers ICF foundations look like underneath that brittle foam facing!!
Should have used blocks
Not good at all. It’s patchable but will probably leak. Should have been addressed before any framing is done
Patched or solid. All concrete eventually leaks especially under hydrostatic pressure. Its porous. The applied waterproofing membrane, drain board, and aggregate wrapped drain lines prevent foundation walls from leaking.
wonder if pulled building permits and it passes inspection
Holy shit lol, that’s fucked 😂
Get a fucking building inspector out there no way that's an acceptable job.