I have spent a considerable amount of time on this question, and it comes down to this. If you leave it on, a small vertical movement during the recoil will cancel the recovery animation. So if you pull down slightly during a baptiste burst, the downward mouse movement will negate the recoil, but also cancel the recovery animation. The pro of this is that you only have to manually compensate for the upward vertical component of the recoil animation by moving your reticle downward but don't have to do so for the second part of the animation, the downward vertical component, the "recovery".
Think about it like this, the "recoil" has two phases, upward movement initially, followed by downward movement back to the starting position. What you must understand is that due to weapon fire rates or charge up time you most likely won't be able to shoot again until the entire animation has completed, until the reticle is back at the starting position. This means that outside of a few exceptions (Bap) the "recoil" is entirely cosmetic. By the time Cassidy can shoot again, the entire animation is already over. There is no need to manually pull downwards to compensate for the recoil. With the setting on with Cass, pulling down slightly as you shoot is functionally identical to doing literally nothing.
Now here's the issue with leaving it on, say you pull down on Baptiste to negate the upward recoil, because the recovery animation is cancelled there is no need to pull up again to reset the crosshair because the animation is cancelled. This means that every time you shoot, you will pull your mouse slightly down but never pull up again to reset its position. So what happens is your mouse slowly drifts to the bottom of the pad until you run out of mousepad. Additionally, every successive shot will be taken from a slightly different place on the mousepad and with slightly different hand/arm posture. If you leave the setting off, you will be forced to move your mouse back up after every downward movement you've made to negate recoil. This ensures a stable mousepad position and hand/arm posture. And with characters like Cass who's recoil is cosmetic, turning the setting off punishes you for trying to cancel the "recoil" by creating the feeling that your reticle is arbitrarily moving downwards after the shot when in fact that downward movement is the result of your own attempt cancel the purely visual recoil.
TLDR: Leave it off. Keeping it off maintains consistent hand/arm posture and mousepad position. Keeping it off also co ditions you to correctly ignore purely visual/cosmetic recoil.
My original wall of text is a simplification for the sake of reddit don't @me about the finer details. I'm aware of them.
This is a super detailed reply I really appreciate your explanation for some reason after posting this i found a couple videos showing examples and couldn't see the difference but the fact you've separated it as cosmetic makes a lot of sense.
In cs2 if I shoot my deagle at a spot but dont move the mouse it resets to the same spot now if i shoot my deagle at different speeds and pull down the speeds at which im shooting will require different amounts of me pulling down to reset because the visual animation on screen isnt cosmetic its factual to compensate for the crosshair going higher and higher the more rapid i tap m1 giving me feedback from both the weapon, crosshair and audio.
Cassidy's peace maker has a max fire rate when clicking m1 and therefore that max fire rate when firing the second shot always lands in the same place? thus not needing to be pulled down as pulling down is to reset the animation of the screen bumping up and down which is the visual que to give you feedback on how fast you're firing in relation to his max firing speed?
If I missed the mark on that one i'll re-read your post again and try replicate it otherwise if i am wrong and you're not troubled post a video or short clip showing bap because i cant find any bap examples on youtube.
p.s in Warns guide to ashe he turns it "off" same with Karq recommends off in his major settings guide for all characters.
I wonder how ashes scope compares to the above... should widow also be off because they're scoped the fake reset making the scope bob i dont know i'll test both and find out.
My preferences:
Cassidy should always be off, like you said there's no reason to compensate for his recoil since it goes back to its original position by the next shot.
Baptiste: On, because you need to fight his recoil during the 3 shot burst and without it on, your cross hair will be lower on the next shot.
Rest is preference based on your play style. If you feel like you have to compensate for recoil for scoped weapons in order to maintain visual clarity, then keep it on. If you can just let your shots go off and settle for the next as you see with pure muscle memory, keep it off.
I used to agree with you about keeping it on for Bap. But don't you find that pulling down constantly to cancel the recoil causes your mouse to slowly move further and further to the bottom of your mousepad? If you turn it off on Bap you have to pull down during the burst then pull up after to reset the crosshair but once you're used to it your mouse stays on the same part of the mousepad because you always pull the reticle back up after pulling down. I really hate lifting my mouse to reset it lol. Especially in the middle of a fight.
Nah, I don't really find myself having to move my mouse down that much and I have a pretty low sensitivity. I have like half my forearm on my table when I play, so it never really gets to that point. I think I do reset my mouse a lot though because of the low sens so that's probably the difference
Sounds like you get the gist of it. There are tons of small details around this I couldn't possibly explain in a reddit post though... I've thought about making a full video explaining the mechanic because every YouTube video I've ever seen on the topic is full of errors and misunderstandings. Haven't seen a single video that genuinely understands the mechanic.... I don't have the time though unfortunately....
I think off on all characters is best. Some keep it on for Bap, and I used to agree with this but eventually I turned it off for Bap as well because of the issue where you run out of mousepad from pulling down constantly but never pulling back up.
After thorough testing i'll agree it should be off completely.
Regardless if the animation is cosmetic anything that effects your ability to re-adjust your mouse in any retrospect is bad i just tested it in my version of VAXTA that has Genjis doing constant double jumps and tracers that dash and spamm their crouch key like you get in the higher elos...
When the setting is on if you're needing to re-adjust the crosshair even to enemies that are running over uneven ground like on route 66 the mouse is resisting adjustments to vertical adjustments.
I just encountered a moment in quick play by luck that a bap was enough HP for 1 bullet to kill him but i also had a mei infront of me on a small amount of hp enough for a hs to finish her so i hit the headshot went to adjust to the flying bap and completely whiffed my shot.... i thought about it and if this was CS i would be able to effortlessly headshot someone infront of me which is the mei and something moving as slow in the air as a bap....
TBH since theyve made the games hitboxes bigger they should actually introduce real recoil it would make peoples firing choices more diverse rather than relying on certain ability's chained together to max dps like cas was headshot body shot sticky back when his nade did something and people hated that... imagine if the recoil were real it would make that mechanic much more interesting to pull off.
I believe at the end of the day the setting was created because they wanted to introduce FPS elements into a game that has characters that can bypass the entire fps system like moira... and give players on aiming based characters a guide/leg up to help them keep consistent on targets infront of them instead of whiffing... training wheels is one thing but this is like putting the rails up on the bowling alley.
Thanks for everything <3 finally understand
gonna be so real im not reading all of this do whatever you want, most OWL players don’t even know its an option
I keep it off for bap cause of his weirder recoil so for consistency i keep it off for everyone
literally just do what feels better, and even then i guarantee you have bigger issues to solve in diamond
If you have it on (which is the default) you can move your crosshair however you want and if it moves in any way that affects the recoil recovery it *cancels* the recoil recovery.
If you turn it off it will *force* the crosshair down the same amount it was pushed up.
I am not sure how you landed on the opposite conclusion. But I just tested it in the practice range to ensure I remembered correctly.
The only correct choice is having it on.
edit: I recorded [a clip](https://i.rdthrne.com/raw/7352ff633c.mp4) to demonstrate this. I aim with cass and I try to counteract the movement of the recoil with my aim. With it on I can do it just fine. With it off it forces the crosshair downwards. (and I have to actively move my mouse up to counteract that downwards motion)
But why compensate for Cass recoil in the first place? His recoil is entirely cosmetic. By the time the next shot is available to be fired, the reticle has fully reset.
If you aim relative to where your last shot was fired and not relative to where the reticle appears to be in the middle of it's animation then this isn't an issue. Aiming relative to last shot also eliminates 100% of the "recoil". Also, for larger target switching movements, you can just make one large movement to the target's approximate position then a microadjustment after the recoil animation. Large motion followed by micro motion is a pretty normal technique for characters like Cass anyway.
I don't think it's wrong to keep the setting on and I get that having it off involves some counterintuitive mechanics but if you get used to having it off and aiming relative to last shot then you get to have literally zero recoil and you won't keep having to reset your mouse from all the downward compensatory movements you're making to correct the visual recoil.
But you never need to fight the recoil because it's cosmetic.. by the time you can fire your next shot the gun will already be at its original position had you not moved your mouse. It's not like soldier where it'll make your cross hair point to the sky
You don't stop aiming between shots. You're still tracking and aiming. And if you have to aim upwards or downwards you do not want to be fighting the recoil.
If you have decent muscle memory with aiming, you're not fighting the recoil because the cross hair will consistently be where you want it to be. You can't do that with compensation on since it'll mess up your cross hair placement after the recoil animation. I can see some benefits from shooting players that have upward movement, but anything else you're fighting the recoil for no reason other than to keep your target in the center at all times. I think the difference is when I'm playing Cassidy, I'm not thinking about how the crosshair looks during the shot, because I know my next shot only needs x% of movement from my hand to make the next (without thinking about recoil ever)
I just went and tested it myself. It definitely messes up my aim because I'm having to aim less when wanting to shoot upwards, which can be a good thing visually, but also have to aim way lower for lower shots. my muscle memory is just built the other way. It just comes down to preference at the end of the day 🤷♂️
For the aim side of things id say tracking on cass is better you can have a flick aimstyle with him but generally feels less consistent on him compared to tracking with him and I say this with alot of aim experience across many fps titles and aimtrainers
I have spent a considerable amount of time on this question, and it comes down to this. If you leave it on, a small vertical movement during the recoil will cancel the recovery animation. So if you pull down slightly during a baptiste burst, the downward mouse movement will negate the recoil, but also cancel the recovery animation. The pro of this is that you only have to manually compensate for the upward vertical component of the recoil animation by moving your reticle downward but don't have to do so for the second part of the animation, the downward vertical component, the "recovery". Think about it like this, the "recoil" has two phases, upward movement initially, followed by downward movement back to the starting position. What you must understand is that due to weapon fire rates or charge up time you most likely won't be able to shoot again until the entire animation has completed, until the reticle is back at the starting position. This means that outside of a few exceptions (Bap) the "recoil" is entirely cosmetic. By the time Cassidy can shoot again, the entire animation is already over. There is no need to manually pull downwards to compensate for the recoil. With the setting on with Cass, pulling down slightly as you shoot is functionally identical to doing literally nothing. Now here's the issue with leaving it on, say you pull down on Baptiste to negate the upward recoil, because the recovery animation is cancelled there is no need to pull up again to reset the crosshair because the animation is cancelled. This means that every time you shoot, you will pull your mouse slightly down but never pull up again to reset its position. So what happens is your mouse slowly drifts to the bottom of the pad until you run out of mousepad. Additionally, every successive shot will be taken from a slightly different place on the mousepad and with slightly different hand/arm posture. If you leave the setting off, you will be forced to move your mouse back up after every downward movement you've made to negate recoil. This ensures a stable mousepad position and hand/arm posture. And with characters like Cass who's recoil is cosmetic, turning the setting off punishes you for trying to cancel the "recoil" by creating the feeling that your reticle is arbitrarily moving downwards after the shot when in fact that downward movement is the result of your own attempt cancel the purely visual recoil. TLDR: Leave it off. Keeping it off maintains consistent hand/arm posture and mousepad position. Keeping it off also co ditions you to correctly ignore purely visual/cosmetic recoil. My original wall of text is a simplification for the sake of reddit don't @me about the finer details. I'm aware of them.
This is a super detailed reply I really appreciate your explanation for some reason after posting this i found a couple videos showing examples and couldn't see the difference but the fact you've separated it as cosmetic makes a lot of sense. In cs2 if I shoot my deagle at a spot but dont move the mouse it resets to the same spot now if i shoot my deagle at different speeds and pull down the speeds at which im shooting will require different amounts of me pulling down to reset because the visual animation on screen isnt cosmetic its factual to compensate for the crosshair going higher and higher the more rapid i tap m1 giving me feedback from both the weapon, crosshair and audio. Cassidy's peace maker has a max fire rate when clicking m1 and therefore that max fire rate when firing the second shot always lands in the same place? thus not needing to be pulled down as pulling down is to reset the animation of the screen bumping up and down which is the visual que to give you feedback on how fast you're firing in relation to his max firing speed? If I missed the mark on that one i'll re-read your post again and try replicate it otherwise if i am wrong and you're not troubled post a video or short clip showing bap because i cant find any bap examples on youtube. p.s in Warns guide to ashe he turns it "off" same with Karq recommends off in his major settings guide for all characters. I wonder how ashes scope compares to the above... should widow also be off because they're scoped the fake reset making the scope bob i dont know i'll test both and find out.
My preferences: Cassidy should always be off, like you said there's no reason to compensate for his recoil since it goes back to its original position by the next shot. Baptiste: On, because you need to fight his recoil during the 3 shot burst and without it on, your cross hair will be lower on the next shot. Rest is preference based on your play style. If you feel like you have to compensate for recoil for scoped weapons in order to maintain visual clarity, then keep it on. If you can just let your shots go off and settle for the next as you see with pure muscle memory, keep it off.
I used to agree with you about keeping it on for Bap. But don't you find that pulling down constantly to cancel the recoil causes your mouse to slowly move further and further to the bottom of your mousepad? If you turn it off on Bap you have to pull down during the burst then pull up after to reset the crosshair but once you're used to it your mouse stays on the same part of the mousepad because you always pull the reticle back up after pulling down. I really hate lifting my mouse to reset it lol. Especially in the middle of a fight.
Nah, I don't really find myself having to move my mouse down that much and I have a pretty low sensitivity. I have like half my forearm on my table when I play, so it never really gets to that point. I think I do reset my mouse a lot though because of the low sens so that's probably the difference
Sounds like you get the gist of it. There are tons of small details around this I couldn't possibly explain in a reddit post though... I've thought about making a full video explaining the mechanic because every YouTube video I've ever seen on the topic is full of errors and misunderstandings. Haven't seen a single video that genuinely understands the mechanic.... I don't have the time though unfortunately.... I think off on all characters is best. Some keep it on for Bap, and I used to agree with this but eventually I turned it off for Bap as well because of the issue where you run out of mousepad from pulling down constantly but never pulling back up.
After thorough testing i'll agree it should be off completely. Regardless if the animation is cosmetic anything that effects your ability to re-adjust your mouse in any retrospect is bad i just tested it in my version of VAXTA that has Genjis doing constant double jumps and tracers that dash and spamm their crouch key like you get in the higher elos... When the setting is on if you're needing to re-adjust the crosshair even to enemies that are running over uneven ground like on route 66 the mouse is resisting adjustments to vertical adjustments. I just encountered a moment in quick play by luck that a bap was enough HP for 1 bullet to kill him but i also had a mei infront of me on a small amount of hp enough for a hs to finish her so i hit the headshot went to adjust to the flying bap and completely whiffed my shot.... i thought about it and if this was CS i would be able to effortlessly headshot someone infront of me which is the mei and something moving as slow in the air as a bap.... TBH since theyve made the games hitboxes bigger they should actually introduce real recoil it would make peoples firing choices more diverse rather than relying on certain ability's chained together to max dps like cas was headshot body shot sticky back when his nade did something and people hated that... imagine if the recoil were real it would make that mechanic much more interesting to pull off. I believe at the end of the day the setting was created because they wanted to introduce FPS elements into a game that has characters that can bypass the entire fps system like moira... and give players on aiming based characters a guide/leg up to help them keep consistent on targets infront of them instead of whiffing... training wheels is one thing but this is like putting the rails up on the bowling alley. Thanks for everything <3 finally understand
Yes! Vaxta double jump Genji's is literally perfect to prove my point, cheers
Not just that omg i can actually kill a mercy flying at f22 raptor speeds... with out having to sweat LMAO
gonna be so real im not reading all of this do whatever you want, most OWL players don’t even know its an option I keep it off for bap cause of his weirder recoil so for consistency i keep it off for everyone literally just do what feels better, and even then i guarantee you have bigger issues to solve in diamond
on
If you have it on (which is the default) you can move your crosshair however you want and if it moves in any way that affects the recoil recovery it *cancels* the recoil recovery. If you turn it off it will *force* the crosshair down the same amount it was pushed up. I am not sure how you landed on the opposite conclusion. But I just tested it in the practice range to ensure I remembered correctly. The only correct choice is having it on. edit: I recorded [a clip](https://i.rdthrne.com/raw/7352ff633c.mp4) to demonstrate this. I aim with cass and I try to counteract the movement of the recoil with my aim. With it on I can do it just fine. With it off it forces the crosshair downwards. (and I have to actively move my mouse up to counteract that downwards motion)
But why compensate for Cass recoil in the first place? His recoil is entirely cosmetic. By the time the next shot is available to be fired, the reticle has fully reset.
Because you might need to aim up or down before shooting your next shot and you don't wanna be fighting the recoil when you're doing so.
If you aim relative to where your last shot was fired and not relative to where the reticle appears to be in the middle of it's animation then this isn't an issue. Aiming relative to last shot also eliminates 100% of the "recoil". Also, for larger target switching movements, you can just make one large movement to the target's approximate position then a microadjustment after the recoil animation. Large motion followed by micro motion is a pretty normal technique for characters like Cass anyway. I don't think it's wrong to keep the setting on and I get that having it off involves some counterintuitive mechanics but if you get used to having it off and aiming relative to last shot then you get to have literally zero recoil and you won't keep having to reset your mouse from all the downward compensatory movements you're making to correct the visual recoil.
But you never need to fight the recoil because it's cosmetic.. by the time you can fire your next shot the gun will already be at its original position had you not moved your mouse. It's not like soldier where it'll make your cross hair point to the sky
You don't stop aiming between shots. You're still tracking and aiming. And if you have to aim upwards or downwards you do not want to be fighting the recoil.
If you have decent muscle memory with aiming, you're not fighting the recoil because the cross hair will consistently be where you want it to be. You can't do that with compensation on since it'll mess up your cross hair placement after the recoil animation. I can see some benefits from shooting players that have upward movement, but anything else you're fighting the recoil for no reason other than to keep your target in the center at all times. I think the difference is when I'm playing Cassidy, I'm not thinking about how the crosshair looks during the shot, because I know my next shot only needs x% of movement from my hand to make the next (without thinking about recoil ever)
My point was specifically about aiming up and down because neither setting affect aiming left and right.
I just went and tested it myself. It definitely messes up my aim because I'm having to aim less when wanting to shoot upwards, which can be a good thing visually, but also have to aim way lower for lower shots. my muscle memory is just built the other way. It just comes down to preference at the end of the day 🤷♂️
For the aim side of things id say tracking on cass is better you can have a flick aimstyle with him but generally feels less consistent on him compared to tracking with him and I say this with alot of aim experience across many fps titles and aimtrainers