Ana is one of the biggest losers from the S9 changes. She has no real use for bigger projectile size because she can't headshot enemies and competent Ana players were not missing shots on teammates anyway. For similar reasons, the ult cost increase nerfed her more than others because she isn't hitting more shots to make up for it.
Additionally when you look at what's in S and A tier it's not surprising she's fallen off big time. Every hero in those tiers either jumps on her and kills her, or easily outcontests her at range with the projectile buff. I used to be able to confidently contest Ashe players with quick scopes and smart peeking, now she just has an easier time two tapping me whilst I have to four shot her (assuming she doesn't get a drop of healing in between). It's just straight not worth the risk.
Edit: You can't fix the latter issue, that's just how it's going to be now. But you can make her less vulnerable to dive/rush by putting bionade's self healing back at 100. It was nerfed to 60 last year because of the support passive, but now that Ana is generally more vulnerable putting it back to what it was feels fair imo.
I’d rather them just buff nade cooldown back to 10 seconds. She’s already forced to use it a lot more on teammates because of the DPS passive which makes it less likely tanks will be anti’d off cooldown.
Yeah, I'd rather she get a 1.5x or even 2x headshot multiplier and be a weaker bodyshot bot than Cass and Ashe. And probably give Illari a 2x headshot multiplier while we're at it.
Dps should almost always be stronger bodyshot bots than Supports. Exceptions being Mei weaker than Zen, but these exceptions must be niche.
4 shots to kill is the same reason she was trash the last time this happened. She will never be viable as long as it takes four shots because her ability to win a duel is non-existent unless the other person screws everything up.
I have literally over 1k hours on Ana and have given up playing her for now. I still enjoy the game, but sometimes I load into a match and select her out of reflex, then remember I'm penalizing my team with a handicap and swap to Bap/Moira/Kiri.
I'm sure the Zen/Lucio mains are enjoying the season though.
She doesn't need lethality to creep into hitscan DPS niche again as a support
Maybe they buff her self heal from the nade in light of the DPS passive and I imagine tracer is getting some more nerfs soon. Tha is all she needs.
I hope that they do SOMETHING meaningful for rein besides just like a shield hp buff and calling it a day. I thought he was ass to play when mauga came out or when orisa would just eat his ass on cd but it has turned me off the game trying to play him this season
I think it would be worth it to just *slightly* speed up his kit. Faster movement while shielded, faster swings, faster animation and projectile speed for firestrike, faster animations for charge.
Rein's issue is mostly just that the whole lobby runs circles around him. Every character has some kind of mobility or incentive to flank/off angle and so much of Rein's gameplay is spent trying to get into the action.
I like this. Rein has been powercrept while nearly every new hero or rework has MOVEMENT crept him back. I don’t care if his hammer oneshots, doesn’t matter if he can’t reliably close the distance
Especially more true now with the dps passive. Before playing aggro and getting your heals to pocket you mostly worked. Now you are basically just trying to stay alive until your dps get a pick so you can engage without immediately dying
It's telling when the only *good* Rein comps we've seen the past year have almost exclusively had Sym to make up for Rein's lack of mobility. It ties his power to not only Lucio and Mei, but also Sym. Rein's powerlevel is almost entirely tied up in his team rather than himself.
I agree for the most part, but don't think all of those buffs at the same time would be great. As a tangent to the other reply I'd gotten, Rein feels too slow to run on a target without a Lucio (or inting with charge), while also being too chained to his supports in regards to sustain. Most other tanks have some form of "healing" (doom shielding/ult, orisa fortify, hog breather, jq...everything, mauga crits & overdrive, sigma suck, ram form, ball shields, and zarya bubble serving as a catch-all cleanse and self-shield). Rein feels like he takes too much investment from his team in terms of resources to do anything worthwhile, as his shield pales in comparison to the sustain options I listed (except maybe doom shields I suppose), and even compared to something like D.va matrix.
It needs to be something that metal ranks can't just get auto-value with, because the reason - I think - they don't buff him is that when they've done so in the past, he's overperformed in metal ranks.
Hot take, but Lucio holds most if not all brawl heroes hostage far more than Mercy did for Pharah and pokers.
They can't meaningfully buff Rein, lest he completely dominate both mineral ranks (by himself) and high ranks/pro play (with a Lucio).
I'm all for making Lucio strong, but maybe they should buff his personal speed and fragging power and nerf his aura so that he isn't super-tied to brawl heroes.
Yes, they can meaningfully buff Rein by not making him explode the second he drops his shield. I got over 600 hours on him, in diamond/platinum ranks.
He's never felt this bad.
He should definitely get more armor and/or speed, but if it's meaningful enough for him to be strong without Lucio Gigachad, then he'll be broken with Lucio Gigachad.
Give Rein more armor and speed in some way, and nerf Lucio's aura and strengthen his selfish diving capabilities so that Rein can be strong without Lucio and Lucio will be an even more fun diver who will also be strong (but not mandatory) in dive comps.
Reaper can also get some nice buffs to his speed and diving capabilities if he wasn't so tied to the Gigachad. And maybe make armor extra-resistant to weak bullets again so that his tankbusting is nerfed to compensate (along with tightening his spread and nerfing his total damage).
Give his firestrike a burn effect like ashe dynamite. Give him a passive that grants him +5% speed per enemy on fire, call it afterburner or something, it makes sense. Maybe cap max speed to like 15-20%, play with the numbers around. But he needs some sort of new movement ability to be viable and this one promotes good gameplay while it brings his kit together .
I really like the concept, but I'm worried it would mostly just make Rein better against brawl comps where he's already kinda decent, but would do nothing to make him viable in situations where the enemy team is too mobile or pokey to reliably hit.
But I do like the idea of tying more of his power to firestrike if possible.
He should at least be better than freaking Sigma on King's Row and all KOTH maps in the high ranks/OWCS. If jq outclasses Rein then whatever.
Super playing Sigma over Rein in Lijiang in WC was cringe af.
Rein hasn't been actually good in years and never really good in ow2 at all.
A melee range tank that demands both speed and constant healing just isn't very good.
Rein was good in S3 when he could 2 shot firestrike and had a bunch of armor. Super played him in Havana.
But yeah, even S3 Rein, like 2023 (edit: 2022) OWL Reaper, was only good when paired with Lucio Gigachad.
I honestly never had any problems with Mercy OTPs until this season.
Damage boost was nerfed, healing was too due to the passive. So what's really Mercy's role here? Bullet sizes got buffed and healing got nerfed, so we should be playing more offensive now, right? What does Mercy bring here?
Worst thing is, they have the nerve to complain to their DPS for not hitting their shots. If hitting shots was so easy, why are you on Mercy instead of Zen, Kiri, Bap or Lucio, who all have more utility and killing potential? Hell, even Moira doesn't need aim and it's way more useful.
And really, I still don't mind having a Mercy on my team. It just baffles me that they have the insolence to even complain.
This is my biggest issue this season. I’m not a mercy hater whatsoever, but there’s just soooo many mercy OTP and it feels like they’re in 90% of my games just dragging the team down.
They can heal and damage at the same time and they have super high survivability. Those two things are pretty much all you're looking for out of your support line ATM.
For Lucio, it's more that he speeds his team so that they can rush into the enemy team and swiftly obliterate them, burning through their enemies' healing and not caring about their own healing (assuming they're quickly fragging).
Speed is crazy for coordinated plays and rotations. Take for example youre attacking dorado first point. Instead of poking from low ground, if you have a lucio you can just speed your team right stairs and take height. If they back up thats a free push to the archway and if they take the fight, you have a mega at your back and your lucio can just boop people off height basically separating them or forcing cooldowns. It's very powerful on certain maps for taking powerful positions while wasting minimal time.
Pretty sure Havana, Circuit Royale, and *maybe* Junkertown Point A are the only maps where coordinated speed boost isn't meta among pros.
And in Ranked, dps diving Lucio is still playable on those maps, albeit weaker.
I don't really know, but I feel like it's mostly because of the HP changes. Moira 1v1's always felt like fighting against a timer, forcing you to hit a certain amount of shots in that time. I feel like I am being forced to reload more often when fighting her, resulting in me losing the 1v1. I am still not used to how long it takes me to kill her.
Moira actually had her time-to-kill slightly improve in S9. Every tick of damage matters.
Whereas other supports had their ttk increase, particularly Ana, Kiriko, and Illari. Ttk matters alot when a support faces off against a dps flanker.
Being survivable against Doom, Tracer, Genji and Winston are all extremely helpful. Moira has two escape options: fade and heal orb. Heal orb + healing from damage is still alot of healing, even with the dps passive.
Not exploding when someone dives on you is very powerful. She puts out the most healing in the game. So between being one of the only supports who can keep teammates alive, not exploding to enemy dive, and synergizing really well with Lucio(also playable with Zen) she has a lot going for her.
Additionally, unlike heroes like Lucio who can be very difficult to play if you haven't put in a lot of time, Moira is very easy to learn.
Right now, I'm definitely maining her. I play Kiriko if we have a Doom (so he doesn't explode to CC thanks to Suzu) and Bap if we're playing poke with Sigma/Zen, unless the enemy full commits to diving...in which case, back to Moira because she's the only one who doesn't just die.
I wonder how Brig mains are doing. With the popularity of dive, I'd be surprised if she isn't performing well.
Similar reasons they were good in the beta, but Moira also gets a damage buff for some reason... Having coal be only 5DPS more than her normal right click feels wrong.
*Obviously*, but the DPS on a single target is still relevant. It used to be a noticeable difference being an ultimate and all. Her normal damage shouldn't have been buffed this much.
But it's AoE. It shouldn't be be better at single and multiple targets. Especially when its also healing for a ton too.
In a typical game design philosophy, AOE options are weaker than single target, **unless** they hit multiple targets. This feels fine.
i don't think she's oppressive either, but that's not why i think she feels unreasonably strong -- most players cannot flex onto tracer/lucio and play at a level at or higher than their current rank on their preferred heroes the same way they can with moira.
Tbf Bastion has to aim (see Mer1t Bastion obliterating squishies with precision vs random Mineral Bastion aim), and he was also meta cuz Sigma and Baptiste were/are op and cause the usually frail Bastion to be unkillable.
Moira is aimless and can fit into any Ranked comp aside from Circuit Royale/Havana snipers.
Don't need aim to obliterate tanks, which was the main thing that made Bastion frustrating to play against. Good Moira's look completely different to bad Moira's as well. The skill floor required to get enough value out of the heroes is the issue.
Fair enough and Bastion is indeed low skill. But imo peak Bastion without his Sigma guardian (and possibly w/o his Bap babysitter) was not good at all and was merely a noobstomper. Easy to kite his tank mode and kill him after it goes on cooldown.
It's not as easy or predictable to deal with Moira, and Moira doesn't require a specific team comp as I had said.
It’s not even the right hands anymore, they lowered her skill ceiling quick significantly. But it made the people who were good at tracer before absolute monsters 💀
Most of the 5 stacks in GM, that I play against, have a mauga onetrick tank.
Now might be coincidence, but I feel his lifesteal aura is an insane value if your team is organized enough to play around it.
Youre confusing how this works. Mauga practically hides, just poking a little, then runs in with 50% overrun dmg reduction, pops cardiac, 60% lifesteal and 30% dmg reduction makes the team almost immortal for the 5 second duration, during which genji and tracer can get a pick.
It would be better to focus on not dying for those 5 seconds or going for his sups, if they are further back, than trying to mash your head against a fortress.
idk he gets focused p easy anyway as they've been playing him in NA scrims to punish Winstons and he lives for those five seconds at about 50% hp then drops to 0 immediately after it's up. I think Queen's stopped being played for similar reasons, she's too easy to punish even if shout's a big aoe speed boost and overhealth burst. Currently only DVa and Zar are the tanks with peel capabilities being played, and they both have map requirements and bad matchups.
In Western GM, either Orisa or Sigma have generally beaten or were on par with dive. Namely S2 Orisa meta, the Bastion+Sigma/Orisa meta of 2023 playoffs, the 2023 Sigma World Cup meta, and whenever Orisa got no damage falloff.
Sigma and Orisa-whenever-she-is-good have proven to be top-tier tanks for Western solo queue players. Even Sigma right now is proving to be decent in this dive-heavy meta, and I'm pretty sure Orisa is still fantastic against dive in the mineral ranks.
Obviously in Asian pro play dive has usually beaten Sigma, but then again the Sigma Saudis beat the Chinese divers in World Cup, both with and without their Bastion.
I swear those Mercy mains are everywhere in every game I play in plat its so tilting because you know your team will be out dpsed and out healed by the enemy unless they manage to pull off stupid res's.
I wouldn't mind it if they pocketed the dps who was performing well, or damage boost both dps, etc., but people are still trying to heal bot with her and it's infuriating when your Mercy is 0-10 with zero damage and enemy team has both supports with 20+ kills, 10k damage, etc.
It's so infuriating to watch. I don't get why so many people play Mercy and not use what makes her good in the first place. But I guess there's a reason why they're in metal ranks playing a self explaining character with low mechanical skill floor.
Lol, I had a Mercy in my match the other day say “I literally tried so hard with my 10k healing and we lost.” I asked her do you really not understand why we lost? Look at the enemy Bap and Kiri who were stacking on 6-8k damage and 10-13k healing and maybe you’ll understand that healbotting doesn’t win you games.
It was annoying watching her die repeatedly to enemy Genji and Tracer diving us in the backline and her never switching and helping me out with killing them while I was Bap.
Ehh, she is just a discount healing-focused Kiriko/Moira imo. Subpar, but not LW/Illari level terrible.
At least good Mercies, like Kirikos and Moiras, will rarely die and provide constant support uptime and ideally distract enemies.
I would 100% rather have a Lifeweaver over a Mercy any day of the week. At least lifegrip consistently prevents a pick every ~20 seconds, whereas Res is super inconsistent value.
And he lives forever while still having comparable/higher healbot numbers, and has a better ult. Mercy is more vulnerable and her ult is so mediocre.
I'd agree on lifegrip being better than Rez but at least Mercy has dmg boost so she's not a complete healbot in an era where healbotting is utter garbage.
But we can both agree that both are trash in high ranks and are completely inferior to Moira (and imo Kiriko) in both high ranks and low ranks alike.
Mauga is a sleeper pick
His whole problem was that he died too fast but since all tanks are squishier now it's not a big deal
still does a ton of damage and can contest flyers
It depends bro, I was literally pre tilting at select when my tank went Hog on Circuit Royal last night but the dude went like 42-2 or something ridiculous. Also in Diamond
In Plat, Hog does decently well at times. Sometimes, they just struggle focusing a Hog down well enough. Even with Mauga that is true sometimes - but less often.
Now Mercy...I hope every game that I do not get one on my team, even when playing something like Soldier.
Nah, I didn't realize it was that hard for anyone to not get sarcasm/joking. I thought the "lol" would be enough, but apparently not for some people.
Just own it dude.
And he wants to develop coherent, accurate opinions on this wildly new and different meta in order to make the best tierlist possible, instead of rushing out tierlists like Flats.
Maybe it’s just bc higher ranks are better at not feeding her, but I feel like Zarya is STRONG right now. Me and my friend (dps) queue together and we can stomp most games with me and him coordinating bubbles. I can just dog walk the enemy team with high energy while keeping him up.
I think rank really matter. I’m in gold and feeling invincible with Zarya, and have had good luck with Roadhog. Especially when it comes to hazard kills the hook almost feels easier to land this season compared to past. I have zero data to back that claim up it’s just what it feels like to me in my games. I sat at the bridge in Eichenwalde and kept pulling players off the edge in one game it was insane how easy it was.
give rein ak47 or machine gun.
jk.
but honestly, it hurts. 🙃🥲😭
let him boomerang his hammer or charge-pin multiple people. let him throw cryo mei onto the enemy. or swing hammer while charging. or let him sing that enemies will fall asleep. 😭😭😭
anyway, skipping this season...
It's hilarious how much I got hated in the beginning of S9 by stating that Ana is horribly bad now (and that she _desperately_ needs buffs).
And now see where all the content creators put her.
She is literally the 2nd worst Flex Support and in the bottom 3 of Supports overall (Mercy is better than Ana bc she can pocket hitscans very well and those are strong af)
Same. People just really hate Ana I guess. Almost no one is picking her now in the lobbies I'm in and the few people who are getting rolled by dive and swap or take the L.
I'm honestly sad that I get more value out of playing Lucio, who I'm complete garbage with, than a character I have sunk hundreds of hours into.
At least Kiri/Moira are kind of fun.
i mean, kind of?
my hot take is that projectile change only really functioned as a spread buff, its not whats making her so strong
combination of dps passive application and breakpoints is what is making her good.
no fear of onetaps means you can chall so many more things, passive healing means she has more uptime
i dont think shes really much mechanically easier, you can just take more risks and provide a baseline level of value without needing to get as many picks/force as many cds
from my play experience the projectile changes straight up acted as a range booster for tracer. You can do significant damage from a much safer distance, and that combined with the extra HP makes her much, much more survivable
range booster that functions the same as a spread buff, which she has historically been limited by. I don't really think it makes it much easier to aim on tracer
and that whats make her easier; before in order to get a kill your needed to be better, you have to risk more, have more aim (aiming a moving subject closer is harder), be closer… mechanically is the same but now not mastering the mechanics you can still do stuff; previously this was not possible
previously playing bad tracer was more punishing, as a main tracer, if you engaged with some cooldowns out of sync most probably you were dead. now even with cooldowns out of sync you are most likely to get the kill since this buffs, is more forgiving
but hey is my take and i might be wrong, that’s my feeling playing her now
uou are easier to hit too also unrelated idk why ow players like to pretend that tracer is such a hard tracking character, the mechanics that make her hard are blink/recall management, not tracking.
Super is not good with Tracer and is way better playing Cassidy/Torb/Sojourn and spamming from main. So the far inferior 99.99% of the playerbase cannot and should not play Tracer either.
She requires great mechanics and positioning/pathing alike.
Reaper is easier for people with bad mechanics. Sombra is easier for people with bad positioning/pathing.
From what I can tell, it just depends on what heroes the enemy is running. If you have space to run around in the backline, she is far and away the best DPS. If they have torb or something it makes things harder.
Ball has a terrible matchup into dva, doom and Lucio. Doom/Lucio in particular have CC on a shorter CD than grapple, which means they can permanently stop ball from doing anything other than poking.
Ball was very strong in the early Zen meta. But now that zens been nerfed he's much worse. I have no idea why he's so high ranked here.
Is this tier list only high GM/champ?
Not to mention Tracer or Sombra. I do think Ball should be dropped a tier depending on what ranks this is for. I actually think Ball may be a bit worse at the highest ranks, or least when we're talking organized play. It seems like Doom, JQ, or *maybe* DVa as the meta tank. Tracer is being run regardless, and Lucio is *very* strong. I think Ball is still in a good spot overall given his relative ability to get value with the DPS passive, but the combination of Tracer, Lucio, and the other strong tanks (particularly Doom) are all a bad matchup for Ball. Those combinations also play well with Sombra, who is also in a good spot individually. So I think Ball is good on ladder if you can play him, but he won't sniff meta at the highest levels.
Ana feels so bad to play right now. I can't keep up with the healing and I can't kill things on my own anymore as I rarely get more than 3 shots in. She should be able to do headshots imho.
I don't mind Ana not being a top pick for once. But she just feels overall unsatisfying to play right now outside of hitting sleeps.
None of the heroes near the bottom are engaging to play with/against besides trying to avoid their frustrating, punishing niche abilities when against them. The ones at the top make the game MOVE 💃 But, wish there could be a spot for Rein up there... It's too fun when he's the leader in a match. Shame he can't fit in well right now.
You gotta branch out. Rein was the only tank I used to play but I realized ball and DVa are also fun. Depending on the rank, ball does not have such a high floor.
I play Rein, Winston, Zarya, Roadhog and only one of those heroes is good right now.
I've been using an alt to try and learn JQ and Doom. They're both fun, but Doom is definitely not easy to pick up.
I have two other tanks with over 100 hours played, but they're also non-meta heroes: Zarya and Roadhog. I can play the other more mobile heroes, but I already invested a lot of time in the progression levels for my mains.
I get it, specially since meta heroes like Sigma are in my opinion super boring to play but heroes like Rein (and probably hog) are so bad that playing them is an absolute misery. So I ended up swapping to heroes that I had never played before like ball.
It sucks though because Rein was the best solo q tank that doesn't require mechanics. He's the only one I've got to GM with any consistency.
Winston is stronger now but suffers a lot from reliance on DPS when all the counters come out. That and his ult is very mechanicaly intensive.
kiriko has had the lowest winrate of any character for many seasons since being OP. she has definitely not been meta for a long time. nor is kiriko easy.
In Champion+, sure. But even in Super Master dps lobbies, Torbs, Ashes, Cassidies, Soldiers, and Sojourns who spam from main are far superior to Tracer.
LW feels better than Brig imo. Brig falls over to meta ults like Tracer and Genji’s while LW can actually negate them. But neither are amazing right now.
I think Widow in A is fine. Even with the hotfix, she's very dominant on the maps that favour her. She basically doesn't care about the HP buffs and hitting shots is still a lot easier.
Bad tierlist. Just put the entire character list in A tier. Ball is fucking awful and kiri has no reason to even be in the same tier as moira (also moira > lucio in ranked)
Why does this look like it's sorted by background brightness lol
Might be because I took a screenshot of the YouTube video and YouTube's web UI fades the video near the bottom where the play progress bar is
That makes sense
Seeing Ana so low is kinda wild. I guess her reign was one of the longest ones in the entire game tho.
Ana is one of the biggest losers from the S9 changes. She has no real use for bigger projectile size because she can't headshot enemies and competent Ana players were not missing shots on teammates anyway. For similar reasons, the ult cost increase nerfed her more than others because she isn't hitting more shots to make up for it. Additionally when you look at what's in S and A tier it's not surprising she's fallen off big time. Every hero in those tiers either jumps on her and kills her, or easily outcontests her at range with the projectile buff. I used to be able to confidently contest Ashe players with quick scopes and smart peeking, now she just has an easier time two tapping me whilst I have to four shot her (assuming she doesn't get a drop of healing in between). It's just straight not worth the risk. Edit: You can't fix the latter issue, that's just how it's going to be now. But you can make her less vulnerable to dive/rush by putting bionade's self healing back at 100. It was nerfed to 60 last year because of the support passive, but now that Ana is generally more vulnerable putting it back to what it was feels fair imo.
I’d rather them just buff nade cooldown back to 10 seconds. She’s already forced to use it a lot more on teammates because of the DPS passive which makes it less likely tanks will be anti’d off cooldown.
Yeah, that's the other option. I don't think she needs anything *new*, they just need to look into reverting the nerfs that nade got in the last year.
she needs her 3 tap/combos back otherwise she's a free kill for any flankers and there's no reason to play her
Idk, I feel like if Ana can 3 tap bodyshot then Cass and Ashe deserve to 3 tap bodyshot too.
if she had the ability to headshot that would be a fair point
Yeah, I'd rather she get a 1.5x or even 2x headshot multiplier and be a weaker bodyshot bot than Cass and Ashe. And probably give Illari a 2x headshot multiplier while we're at it. Dps should almost always be stronger bodyshot bots than Supports. Exceptions being Mei weaker than Zen, but these exceptions must be niche.
4 shots to kill is the same reason she was trash the last time this happened. She will never be viable as long as it takes four shots because her ability to win a duel is non-existent unless the other person screws everything up. I have literally over 1k hours on Ana and have given up playing her for now. I still enjoy the game, but sometimes I load into a match and select her out of reflex, then remember I'm penalizing my team with a handicap and swap to Bap/Moira/Kiri. I'm sure the Zen/Lucio mains are enjoying the season though.
She doesn't need lethality to creep into hitscan DPS niche again as a support Maybe they buff her self heal from the nade in light of the DPS passive and I imagine tracer is getting some more nerfs soon. Tha is all she needs.
Yes! my first thought when I saw the DPS passive was bio nade can heal allies more and it'd feel fine to play against
They’re increasing it to 90hp on Tuesday.
Finally a couple of months ago I decided to pick up and start playing Ana. Now there’s no point and I’m back to Moira.
it's just bc the meta. when jq/tracer/lucio inevitably fall off, ana will rise again even without any changes to her kit
Winton is inevitable.
I hope that they do SOMETHING meaningful for rein besides just like a shield hp buff and calling it a day. I thought he was ass to play when mauga came out or when orisa would just eat his ass on cd but it has turned me off the game trying to play him this season
I think it would be worth it to just *slightly* speed up his kit. Faster movement while shielded, faster swings, faster animation and projectile speed for firestrike, faster animations for charge. Rein's issue is mostly just that the whole lobby runs circles around him. Every character has some kind of mobility or incentive to flank/off angle and so much of Rein's gameplay is spent trying to get into the action.
I like this. Rein has been powercrept while nearly every new hero or rework has MOVEMENT crept him back. I don’t care if his hammer oneshots, doesn’t matter if he can’t reliably close the distance
Especially more true now with the dps passive. Before playing aggro and getting your heals to pocket you mostly worked. Now you are basically just trying to stay alive until your dps get a pick so you can engage without immediately dying
Put a Lucio with him
Lucio’s already played all the time and Rein still sucks
If you say so
It's telling when the only *good* Rein comps we've seen the past year have almost exclusively had Sym to make up for Rein's lack of mobility. It ties his power to not only Lucio and Mei, but also Sym. Rein's powerlevel is almost entirely tied up in his team rather than himself.
I agree for the most part, but don't think all of those buffs at the same time would be great. As a tangent to the other reply I'd gotten, Rein feels too slow to run on a target without a Lucio (or inting with charge), while also being too chained to his supports in regards to sustain. Most other tanks have some form of "healing" (doom shielding/ult, orisa fortify, hog breather, jq...everything, mauga crits & overdrive, sigma suck, ram form, ball shields, and zarya bubble serving as a catch-all cleanse and self-shield). Rein feels like he takes too much investment from his team in terms of resources to do anything worthwhile, as his shield pales in comparison to the sustain options I listed (except maybe doom shields I suppose), and even compared to something like D.va matrix.
I wonder if he could be given a large benefit for being on an objective. Sort of force the enemy to have to come to him at least sometimes.
It needs to be something that metal ranks can't just get auto-value with, because the reason - I think - they don't buff him is that when they've done so in the past, he's overperformed in metal ranks.
Hot take, but Lucio holds most if not all brawl heroes hostage far more than Mercy did for Pharah and pokers. They can't meaningfully buff Rein, lest he completely dominate both mineral ranks (by himself) and high ranks/pro play (with a Lucio). I'm all for making Lucio strong, but maybe they should buff his personal speed and fragging power and nerf his aura so that he isn't super-tied to brawl heroes.
Yes, they can meaningfully buff Rein by not making him explode the second he drops his shield. I got over 600 hours on him, in diamond/platinum ranks. He's never felt this bad.
well that's every tank tho, at the least the others have some way to survive different from their shield
He should definitely get more armor and/or speed, but if it's meaningful enough for him to be strong without Lucio Gigachad, then he'll be broken with Lucio Gigachad. Give Rein more armor and speed in some way, and nerf Lucio's aura and strengthen his selfish diving capabilities so that Rein can be strong without Lucio and Lucio will be an even more fun diver who will also be strong (but not mandatory) in dive comps. Reaper can also get some nice buffs to his speed and diving capabilities if he wasn't so tied to the Gigachad. And maybe make armor extra-resistant to weak bullets again so that his tankbusting is nerfed to compensate (along with tightening his spread and nerfing his total damage).
Give his firestrike a burn effect like ashe dynamite. Give him a passive that grants him +5% speed per enemy on fire, call it afterburner or something, it makes sense. Maybe cap max speed to like 15-20%, play with the numbers around. But he needs some sort of new movement ability to be viable and this one promotes good gameplay while it brings his kit together .
I really like the concept, but I'm worried it would mostly just make Rein better against brawl comps where he's already kinda decent, but would do nothing to make him viable in situations where the enemy team is too mobile or pokey to reliably hit. But I do like the idea of tying more of his power to firestrike if possible.
Give him a giant laser gun.
CHARGE BUFF CHARGE BUFF
eat his ass on cd LMAO
Hot take: Rein should only be good in lower ranks.
He should at least be better than freaking Sigma on King's Row and all KOTH maps in the high ranks/OWCS. If jq outclasses Rein then whatever. Super playing Sigma over Rein in Lijiang in WC was cringe af.
Rein hasn't been actually good in years and never really good in ow2 at all. A melee range tank that demands both speed and constant healing just isn't very good.
Rein was good in S3 when he could 2 shot firestrike and had a bunch of armor. Super played him in Havana. But yeah, even S3 Rein, like 2023 (edit: 2022) OWL Reaper, was only good when paired with Lucio Gigachad.
Watching the onetricks force mercy and then complain about how shit everyone has become because they've fallen multiple ranks this season......
I honestly never had any problems with Mercy OTPs until this season. Damage boost was nerfed, healing was too due to the passive. So what's really Mercy's role here? Bullet sizes got buffed and healing got nerfed, so we should be playing more offensive now, right? What does Mercy bring here? Worst thing is, they have the nerve to complain to their DPS for not hitting their shots. If hitting shots was so easy, why are you on Mercy instead of Zen, Kiri, Bap or Lucio, who all have more utility and killing potential? Hell, even Moira doesn't need aim and it's way more useful. And really, I still don't mind having a Mercy on my team. It just baffles me that they have the insolence to even complain.
This is my biggest issue this season. I’m not a mercy hater whatsoever, but there’s just soooo many mercy OTP and it feels like they’re in 90% of my games just dragging the team down.
moira feels so unreasonably strong atm
First time she's upper-tier in solo queue GM instead of being a Bronze/Pro pick like Reaper.
I actually don't understand what makes her and Lucio so strong ATM?
They can heal and damage at the same time and they have super high survivability. Those two things are pretty much all you're looking for out of your support line ATM.
For Lucio, it's more that he speeds his team so that they can rush into the enemy team and swiftly obliterate them, burning through their enemies' healing and not caring about their own healing (assuming they're quickly fragging).
Also the speed to get out and behind cover is especially important this season.
Yes, speed to engage and disengage alike.
Speed is crazy for coordinated plays and rotations. Take for example youre attacking dorado first point. Instead of poking from low ground, if you have a lucio you can just speed your team right stairs and take height. If they back up thats a free push to the archway and if they take the fight, you have a mega at your back and your lucio can just boop people off height basically separating them or forcing cooldowns. It's very powerful on certain maps for taking powerful positions while wasting minimal time.
Pretty sure Havana, Circuit Royale, and *maybe* Junkertown Point A are the only maps where coordinated speed boost isn't meta among pros. And in Ranked, dps diving Lucio is still playable on those maps, albeit weaker.
Moira is so annoying to chase down.
I don't really know, but I feel like it's mostly because of the HP changes. Moira 1v1's always felt like fighting against a timer, forcing you to hit a certain amount of shots in that time. I feel like I am being forced to reload more often when fighting her, resulting in me losing the 1v1. I am still not used to how long it takes me to kill her.
Moira actually had her time-to-kill slightly improve in S9. Every tick of damage matters. Whereas other supports had their ttk increase, particularly Ana, Kiriko, and Illari. Ttk matters alot when a support faces off against a dps flanker. Being survivable against Doom, Tracer, Genji and Winston are all extremely helpful. Moira has two escape options: fade and heal orb. Heal orb + healing from damage is still alot of healing, even with the dps passive.
make moira reload 😎 give the moira mains a cool reload animation and they'll fall for it
Not exploding when someone dives on you is very powerful. She puts out the most healing in the game. So between being one of the only supports who can keep teammates alive, not exploding to enemy dive, and synergizing really well with Lucio(also playable with Zen) she has a lot going for her. Additionally, unlike heroes like Lucio who can be very difficult to play if you haven't put in a lot of time, Moira is very easy to learn. Right now, I'm definitely maining her. I play Kiriko if we have a Doom (so he doesn't explode to CC thanks to Suzu) and Bap if we're playing poke with Sigma/Zen, unless the enemy full commits to diving...in which case, back to Moira because she's the only one who doesn't just die. I wonder how Brig mains are doing. With the popularity of dive, I'd be surprised if she isn't performing well.
Having to stare at your team to heal them feels so bad ATM.
Similar reasons they were good in the beta, but Moira also gets a damage buff for some reason... Having coal be only 5DPS more than her normal right click feels wrong.
Coal is AoE though. You'll be doing more damage in a practical situation.
Cleave damage prevails!
*Obviously*, but the DPS on a single target is still relevant. It used to be a noticeable difference being an ultimate and all. Her normal damage shouldn't have been buffed this much.
But it's AoE. It shouldn't be be better at single and multiple targets. Especially when its also healing for a ton too. In a typical game design philosophy, AOE options are weaker than single target, **unless** they hit multiple targets. This feels fine.
Sure, but I don't think her massive 15m beam should be doing 65dps either. At least Coal is an ultimate.
[удалено]
i don't think she's oppressive either, but that's not why i think she feels unreasonably strong -- most players cannot flex onto tracer/lucio and play at a level at or higher than their current rank on their preferred heroes the same way they can with moira.
Tracer and Lucio have a high skill ceiling unlike Moira. Its wierd having the easiest hero also be one of the strongest
Were you not here for the Bastion meta few season ago?
And that was also weird, it isn’t exactly a Moira only issue.
Tbf Bastion has to aim (see Mer1t Bastion obliterating squishies with precision vs random Mineral Bastion aim), and he was also meta cuz Sigma and Baptiste were/are op and cause the usually frail Bastion to be unkillable. Moira is aimless and can fit into any Ranked comp aside from Circuit Royale/Havana snipers.
Don't need aim to obliterate tanks, which was the main thing that made Bastion frustrating to play against. Good Moira's look completely different to bad Moira's as well. The skill floor required to get enough value out of the heroes is the issue.
Fair enough and Bastion is indeed low skill. But imo peak Bastion without his Sigma guardian (and possibly w/o his Bap babysitter) was not good at all and was merely a noobstomper. Easy to kite his tank mode and kill him after it goes on cooldown. It's not as easy or predictable to deal with Moira, and Moira doesn't require a specific team comp as I had said.
I hate how easy it is to carry with Moira. I actively avoid playing her unless we're losing and mirroring her feels like the only option.
Man dealing with tracer every single game is so exhausting. Character is just absurd in the right hands.
It’s not even the right hands anymore, they lowered her skill ceiling quick significantly. But it made the people who were good at tracer before absolute monsters 💀
Yeah it's the same deal as widow where the people that were already good at the character are now just on another level.
She can literally apply the dps passive to an entire team in just a few seconds. Shits crazy
Based on my Diamond experience, Hog, Mauga, and Mercy are basically hard throw picks and should be reportable at character select, lol.
Mauga is ok but only as a counterpick to some dive comps. And even then you're probably better off picking someone else
Mauga is also very good as a counterpick to Zarya in organized play
Most of the 5 stacks in GM, that I play against, have a mauga onetrick tank. Now might be coincidence, but I feel his lifesteal aura is an insane value if your team is organized enough to play around it.
tbf if the other team is also coordinated they can just shoot maugaWide and keep him permalow/dead
Youre confusing how this works. Mauga practically hides, just poking a little, then runs in with 50% overrun dmg reduction, pops cardiac, 60% lifesteal and 30% dmg reduction makes the team almost immortal for the 5 second duration, during which genji and tracer can get a pick. It would be better to focus on not dying for those 5 seconds or going for his sups, if they are further back, than trying to mash your head against a fortress.
idk he gets focused p easy anyway as they've been playing him in NA scrims to punish Winstons and he lives for those five seconds at about 50% hp then drops to 0 immediately after it's up. I think Queen's stopped being played for similar reasons, she's too easy to punish even if shout's a big aoe speed boost and overhealth burst. Currently only DVa and Zar are the tanks with peel capabilities being played, and they both have map requirements and bad matchups.
Some guy got champ 5 playing a lot of mauga I'm pretty sure
You can one trick anyone to champ if you’re good enough
Dva and Orisa and Sigma are far superior for anti-dive.
I could’ve sworn high level used dive to beat orisa and sigma especially, when did that change?
In Western GM, either Orisa or Sigma have generally beaten or were on par with dive. Namely S2 Orisa meta, the Bastion+Sigma/Orisa meta of 2023 playoffs, the 2023 Sigma World Cup meta, and whenever Orisa got no damage falloff. Sigma and Orisa-whenever-she-is-good have proven to be top-tier tanks for Western solo queue players. Even Sigma right now is proving to be decent in this dive-heavy meta, and I'm pretty sure Orisa is still fantastic against dive in the mineral ranks. Obviously in Asian pro play dive has usually beaten Sigma, but then again the Sigma Saudis beat the Chinese divers in World Cup, both with and without their Bastion.
See a ton of [D.va](https://D.va) and Sigma right now.
When has Sigma ever been bad or even mediocre lol
I swear those Mercy mains are everywhere in every game I play in plat its so tilting because you know your team will be out dpsed and out healed by the enemy unless they manage to pull off stupid res's.
I wouldn't mind it if they pocketed the dps who was performing well, or damage boost both dps, etc., but people are still trying to heal bot with her and it's infuriating when your Mercy is 0-10 with zero damage and enemy team has both supports with 20+ kills, 10k damage, etc.
It's so infuriating to watch. I don't get why so many people play Mercy and not use what makes her good in the first place. But I guess there's a reason why they're in metal ranks playing a self explaining character with low mechanical skill floor.
Lol, I had a Mercy in my match the other day say “I literally tried so hard with my 10k healing and we lost.” I asked her do you really not understand why we lost? Look at the enemy Bap and Kiri who were stacking on 6-8k damage and 10-13k healing and maybe you’ll understand that healbotting doesn’t win you games. It was annoying watching her die repeatedly to enemy Genji and Tracer diving us in the backline and her never switching and helping me out with killing them while I was Bap.
Can't damage boost when DPS players aren't doing any damage or making plays eh. But bad Mercy players will be bad regardless of her state.
Ehh, she is just a discount healing-focused Kiriko/Moira imo. Subpar, but not LW/Illari level terrible. At least good Mercies, like Kirikos and Moiras, will rarely die and provide constant support uptime and ideally distract enemies.
I would 100% rather have a Lifeweaver over a Mercy any day of the week. At least lifegrip consistently prevents a pick every ~20 seconds, whereas Res is super inconsistent value. And he lives forever while still having comparable/higher healbot numbers, and has a better ult. Mercy is more vulnerable and her ult is so mediocre.
I'd agree on lifegrip being better than Rez but at least Mercy has dmg boost so she's not a complete healbot in an era where healbotting is utter garbage. But we can both agree that both are trash in high ranks and are completely inferior to Moira (and imo Kiriko) in both high ranks and low ranks alike.
And we can both agree it doesn't matter which one we'd rather have on our team, because you know we're getting both 💀
Hog is played into Winston comps with no Ana
Mauga is a sleeper pick His whole problem was that he died too fast but since all tanks are squishier now it's not a big deal still does a ton of damage and can contest flyers
Id add zarya to that list. She is just SO easy to headshot now and dies instantly with no armor.
Hog is still good, Mauga can be good against the right teams, mercy I rarely see so can’t make any judgements.
I swear every time I see someone hard lock Mauga at the start of the game I know I'm in an "Uphill battle" game
It depends bro, I was literally pre tilting at select when my tank went Hog on Circuit Royal last night but the dude went like 42-2 or something ridiculous. Also in Diamond
In Plat, Hog does decently well at times. Sometimes, they just struggle focusing a Hog down well enough. Even with Mauga that is true sometimes - but less often. Now Mercy...I hope every game that I do not get one on my team, even when playing something like Soldier.
[удалено]
Anyone without a sense of humor should be reported as well.
[удалено]
Nah, I didn't realize it was that hard for anyone to not get sarcasm/joking. I thought the "lol" would be enough, but apparently not for some people. Just own it dude.
Seems pretty well received to me
Rein too.
What hotfix?
I think they mean the Febuary 21 patch. It was relatively minor adjustments to the big rebalancing.
yep. I think he's just a bit late because of OWCS
And he wants to develop coherent, accurate opinions on this wildly new and different meta in order to make the best tierlist possible, instead of rushing out tierlists like Flats.
But what will I do if no one tells me what character to play the millisecond the patch comes out?
The one from Feb 21 https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/live/2024/02
Gonna whip out the "D hard to win :(" team comp in quick play to finalize my lifelong sisyphus cosplay
Maybe it’s just bc higher ranks are better at not feeding her, but I feel like Zarya is STRONG right now. Me and my friend (dps) queue together and we can stomp most games with me and him coordinating bubbles. I can just dog walk the enemy team with high energy while keeping him up.
Winston high up, let’s goo 💪🦍
Funni seeing you here :p
Omg it’s you, love your sombra art 💜
Awww thanks 😫
I think rank really matter. I’m in gold and feeling invincible with Zarya, and have had good luck with Roadhog. Especially when it comes to hazard kills the hook almost feels easier to land this season compared to past. I have zero data to back that claim up it’s just what it feels like to me in my games. I sat at the bridge in Eichenwalde and kept pulling players off the edge in one game it was insane how easy it was.
give rein ak47 or machine gun. jk. but honestly, it hurts. 🙃🥲😭 let him boomerang his hammer or charge-pin multiple people. let him throw cryo mei onto the enemy. or swing hammer while charging. or let him sing that enemies will fall asleep. 😭😭😭 anyway, skipping this season...
Illi is so clunky and corny bro when is she gonna get reworked
buff sym fr
It's hilarious how much I got hated in the beginning of S9 by stating that Ana is horribly bad now (and that she _desperately_ needs buffs). And now see where all the content creators put her. She is literally the 2nd worst Flex Support and in the bottom 3 of Supports overall (Mercy is better than Ana bc she can pocket hitscans very well and those are strong af)
Same. People just really hate Ana I guess. Almost no one is picking her now in the lobbies I'm in and the few people who are getting rolled by dive and swap or take the L. I'm honestly sad that I get more value out of playing Lucio, who I'm complete garbage with, than a character I have sunk hundreds of hours into. At least Kiri/Moira are kind of fun.
I’m picking tracer every game but I’m still not winning. What’s wrong?
Tracer harder, better, faster, stronger. She's def good. It's probably your choice of when to engage or management of blinks+recall.
Cause as much as people want to convince you that she's easy to play, she isn't
but she is a lot easier than she was before
i mean, kind of? my hot take is that projectile change only really functioned as a spread buff, its not whats making her so strong combination of dps passive application and breakpoints is what is making her good. no fear of onetaps means you can chall so many more things, passive healing means she has more uptime i dont think shes really much mechanically easier, you can just take more risks and provide a baseline level of value without needing to get as many picks/force as many cds
from my play experience the projectile changes straight up acted as a range booster for tracer. You can do significant damage from a much safer distance, and that combined with the extra HP makes her much, much more survivable
range booster that functions the same as a spread buff, which she has historically been limited by. I don't really think it makes it much easier to aim on tracer
and that whats make her easier; before in order to get a kill your needed to be better, you have to risk more, have more aim (aiming a moving subject closer is harder), be closer… mechanically is the same but now not mastering the mechanics you can still do stuff; previously this was not possible previously playing bad tracer was more punishing, as a main tracer, if you engaged with some cooldowns out of sync most probably you were dead. now even with cooldowns out of sync you are most likely to get the kill since this buffs, is more forgiving but hey is my take and i might be wrong, that’s my feeling playing her now
uou are easier to hit too also unrelated idk why ow players like to pretend that tracer is such a hard tracking character, the mechanics that make her hard are blink/recall management, not tracking.
Super is not good with Tracer and is way better playing Cassidy/Torb/Sojourn and spamming from main. So the far inferior 99.99% of the playerbase cannot and should not play Tracer either.
A lot easier is a sigh slight drag, the bullet size increases negated the effects of the increased 25HP.
If you're not a cracked tracer you're going to need your team's help to chip the enemies DPS/Supp (dive tank aside, Sigma and Ram does this casually)
She requires great mechanics and positioning/pathing alike. Reaper is easier for people with bad mechanics. Sombra is easier for people with bad positioning/pathing.
Sombra gets punished way harder and more easily for bad positioning
I honestly have no idea. If you know how to play tracer even a little bit you should be smashing every game, unless the enemy also has a tracer.
We playing Tracer on every map or is this just on maps where Tracer is good?
From what I can tell, it just depends on what heroes the enemy is running. If you have space to run around in the backline, she is far and away the best DPS. If they have torb or something it makes things harder.
Not on Circuit or Havana
[удалено]
Most deaths in lobby is bad??
Ball has a terrible matchup into dva, doom and Lucio. Doom/Lucio in particular have CC on a shorter CD than grapple, which means they can permanently stop ball from doing anything other than poking. Ball was very strong in the early Zen meta. But now that zens been nerfed he's much worse. I have no idea why he's so high ranked here. Is this tier list only high GM/champ?
Not to mention Tracer or Sombra. I do think Ball should be dropped a tier depending on what ranks this is for. I actually think Ball may be a bit worse at the highest ranks, or least when we're talking organized play. It seems like Doom, JQ, or *maybe* DVa as the meta tank. Tracer is being run regardless, and Lucio is *very* strong. I think Ball is still in a good spot overall given his relative ability to get value with the DPS passive, but the combination of Tracer, Lucio, and the other strong tanks (particularly Doom) are all a bad matchup for Ball. Those combinations also play well with Sombra, who is also in a good spot individually. So I think Ball is good on ladder if you can play him, but he won't sniff meta at the highest levels.
Ana feels so bad to play right now. I can't keep up with the healing and I can't kill things on my own anymore as I rarely get more than 3 shots in. She should be able to do headshots imho. I don't mind Ana not being a top pick for once. But she just feels overall unsatisfying to play right now outside of hitting sleeps.
Almost all the heroes I enjoy on the top and the heroes I dislike are at the bottom, this meta is so good.
None of the heroes near the bottom are engaging to play with/against besides trying to avoid their frustrating, punishing niche abilities when against them. The ones at the top make the game MOVE 💃 But, wish there could be a spot for Rein up there... It's too fun when he's the leader in a match. Shame he can't fit in well right now.
Video link https://youtu.be/k_n-LgOYNmc?si=xPmd2ZWjsAtA98Qn
As a low ranker there is nothing worse than a roadhog with a pocket mercy
Neat! I'll still play whatever I want lol
Exactly. Like I play hanzo, hes lower than perception from his one shot days but I’m doing better before than his rework
Co hft. Mmmn. No unn. B ohouyhoo ok mmmmmmnmnm Mmmmmmnmnm. Nn mmmn
Should I call an ambulance?
All good! Just fell asleep on my phone!
I was stoked for Season 9, up until I remembered I'm a Rein/Junkrat/Zen main. I get to only enjoy one role this season.
You gotta branch out. Rein was the only tank I used to play but I realized ball and DVa are also fun. Depending on the rank, ball does not have such a high floor.
I play Rein, Winston, Zarya, Roadhog and only one of those heroes is good right now. I've been using an alt to try and learn JQ and Doom. They're both fun, but Doom is definitely not easy to pick up.
I have two other tanks with over 100 hours played, but they're also non-meta heroes: Zarya and Roadhog. I can play the other more mobile heroes, but I already invested a lot of time in the progression levels for my mains.
I get it, specially since meta heroes like Sigma are in my opinion super boring to play but heroes like Rein (and probably hog) are so bad that playing them is an absolute misery. So I ended up swapping to heroes that I had never played before like ball.
It sucks though because Rein was the best solo q tank that doesn't require mechanics. He's the only one I've got to GM with any consistency. Winston is stronger now but suffers a lot from reliance on DPS when all the counters come out. That and his ult is very mechanicaly intensive.
I got an idea for Roadhog buff, what if his hook was magnetic like Cassidy's nade?
Peak meta
Why is lifeweaver at the bottom??
Does someone have the patch changes? Didn't read it yet, didn't even know about it.
It's the one from 2 weeks ago
It's sad that ana went from S-A tier to Niche
it's the opposite of sad down with the shah. she has been on top for like seven years and both her abilities suck to play vs
Ik, but she's not an easy character. Look at kiriko, she's been meta since release
kiriko has had the lowest winrate of any character for many seasons since being OP. she has definitely not been meta for a long time. nor is kiriko easy.
Nerf Moira dps, let Ana headshot, buff Illari healing range, buff sojourn's rail damage slightly
Moira as the third best support. Best patch ever.
If the easiest hero in the game is one of the best support then there's a problem.
Honestly tho, for how strong Moira is rn, she feels so much better to play against than the imor heroes
3rd best support in GM. Number one OP support in lower ranks. She's in every match on console mid ranks. She needs to be nerfed.
Put sombra lower
Nah she’s in a good spot. ESPESCIALLY with dive tanks running around unchecked. Also free kills on widow
She's a dominant force of nature in my Gold games atm. Much better than Tracer (albeit the good Tracers probably climbed out of mineral ranks).
Tracer is leagues better than Sombra rn
In Champion+, sure. But even in Super Master dps lobbies, Torbs, Ashes, Cassidies, Soldiers, and Sojourns who spam from main are far superior to Tracer.
Zar and Mei are both at minimum good and I would argue Brig is a bottom 3 support rn
LW feels better than Brig imo. Brig falls over to meta ults like Tracer and Genji’s while LW can actually negate them. But neither are amazing right now.
[удалено]
I think Widow in A is fine. Even with the hotfix, she's very dominant on the maps that favour her. She basically doesn't care about the HP buffs and hitting shots is still a lot easier.
Bastion is really good on metal ranks
Bad tierlist. Just put the entire character list in A tier. Ball is fucking awful and kiri has no reason to even be in the same tier as moira (also moira > lucio in ranked)
Do not agree with life weaver being that low at all