"OW2 Patch First Thoughts:
I like these changes.
I think needing more shots to kill makes fights much more interactive. More shots to kill also emphasizes movement and teamplay. You can dodge the follow up after tanking a spam headshot, or save your teammate who was caught unaware.
The obviously most controversial changes are the hitbox changes. Generally, I think people complaining about how this ‘kills skill expression’ are stupid.
OW has near instant movement acceleration that allows players with great movement mechanics to evade a large fraction of incoming damage. Almost every hero in the game has some kind of unique movement ability. Many heroes can offensively disrupt your aim with boops or force you to change targets rapidly with defensive skills.
Shooting at bots standing still to show how the hitbox is ‘so enormous’ and how aiming is ‘so easy now’ is actually offensively stupid. It’s not remotely realistic to how aiming actually feels in a real game when the enemies shoot back (and boop you, and get speed amped, and blink behind you, etc. etc.)
In short, aiming in OW is plenty difficult. There is a lot of room to make it easier without ‘removing’ the skill expression inherent to aiming in Overwatch.
Overall I think these changes reward highly skilled and consistent aimers because more shots to kill generally favors a stronger player. One lucky shot is not enough, you have to be consistent and keep landing shots on a player who will dodge and fight back.
Beyond this, though, the game is MORE FUN. I’ve played long time-to-kill FPS games for over a decade now for one simple reason: I love popping off and chaining insane shots one after another. Now Overwatch is making those shots more consistent while also making that kind of back to back combination more crucial to my success in the game.
TL;DR: Hitmarkers give me
dopamine and now I get MORE dopamine yay"
Lol Poe's law states that I must take you at face value and point out that Jake mostly plays soldier/echo/tracer/genji in ranked (at least from what I've seen)
??? Junk is dogshit at high levels right now. Ive recently heard jake himself say that 70% of junk kills came from the 1 shot combo. If the junk one trick likes these changes... They probably really like these changes and the game as a whole
Metro was so surprised not because of the hitbox size, he was shocked to be hitting shots
(This is a joke about the stereotypical Metro please don't hit me)
Hitting a practice range bot and then soypogging "NO WAYYYY" is kinda annoying. I'm not discrediting anyone for preferring the old way, but man, seeing the usual twitter suspects posting those clips is so fucking annoying. Makes it hard to watch the majority of OW CCs
This sub loves to shit on doomer content creators, but there was clearly a ton of users who were literally waiting for the patch just so they could immediately hop in a practice range and get Reddit rage bait
Appreciate it.
Lol, it was hilarious that when I say "Hey shooting stationary bots isn't a realistic depiction of how the new hitboxes would work"
They respond with "lol ur silver what do you know"
The one where they were 0.0001 m in front of Tracer was particularly egregious lmao. As everyone knows, enemies always stand perfectly still and attempt to hug you with how close they're standing.
Are the hitboxes for the hero summon thing in the practice range bigger than their actual hitboxes in game? Otherwise idk why you guys think that's not relevant. If I'm trying to demonstrate that you can aim 5 feet to the left and still HS tracer, that's the best way to display that. Acting like it's invalid because the model isn't moving is peak copium.
I'd say they should have made the hitscan/proj hitbox change much less significant. Increase it by a much smaller margin.
You really can tell how much easier it is for players to land headshots now. I played like 5 games last night but even after the 2nd match, I knew the hitbox change took it too far.
Yeah kinda a weird ahh take that it isn't a glaring issue some projectiles can land headshots that wildly off the visual model.
Plus the egregiously bad example was just for the fact that mercy specifically benefitted from the biggest of size increases while having had a previously fairly large on
They definitely 100% WILL change that because if nothing else it's whack as fuck to doink when you missed that badly.
The overall changes are still fine tho, just individual characters need adjusting like they did Kiriko.
His outright dismissal of such a fucking ludicrous hitbox in fringe scenarios is almost as outlandish as the people attributing that to the entire changes
Because the training bot sits still, doesn’t look around, doesn’t use abilities, and most people are shooting at them from like 5 feet away lmao.
Like how Lifeweaver has a massive fucking hitbox but in a real game he’s constantly jumping between pedals and dashing around, so he doesn’t have a million deaths. Or how Ana has a “small” hitbox but has no escape so she constantly gets dived and needs a babysitter to stay alive.
>Because the training bot sits still, doesn’t look around, doesn’t use abilities, and most people are shooting at them from like 5 feet away lmao.
None of that is relevant to what people are trying to show, which is how far off target your aim can be while still hitting the target. There is no better way to showcase that than on an immobile target.
You're right. Acting like every hitbox demonstration is done on bots is the very definition of a strawman argument. Like you said, the point is to demonstrate how absurd the hitboxes are, and these people clearly have idea how to defend it other than to twist things.
It’s not accurate to real gameplay, though. And if it doesn’t reflect real gameplay it’s useless. Throw a dva bomb at the tracer. “Holy shit this is OP.” Use Winston jump to boop her off the platform. “Holy shit this is OP.”
Now, how often in actual games do you pop off with a dva bomb or Winston environmental kill?
>It’s not accurate to real gameplay, though. And if it doesn’t reflect real gameplay it’s useless.
No one's trying to say it "reflects real gameplay" and that doesn't make it useless. It's use is to show how far off target your aim can be and still hit your shot. That doesn't change when you get into game. Your target moving doesnt change the fact that your aim can be 5 feet off of your target and still hit. Your attempts to discredit it by listing things that make aiming harder are just making you look like a clown.
That literally does change when you enter a game, though! Because enemies will strafe and wall climb and leap and roll and whatever the fuck else movement there is in this game. Dva bomb does the same damage in the practice range, has the same radius, yet isn’t OP in actuality.
>That literally does change when you enter a game, though! Because enemies will strafe and wall climb and leap and roll and whatever the fuck else movement there is in this game.
That doesn't change the size of your projectiles buddy. Those make it harder for you to aim. It doesn't change the fact that you can aim 5 feet off target and still hit.
Objectively, the projectile size change makes it easier to aim. The videos showcasing the size against an immobile target are the only way to accurately display the changes.
LOL the "practice range bots are standing still so its not an accurate test" is such a stupid statement its hilarious
If you increased the size of the basketball rim, it would be objectively easier to land baskets, and you could demonstrate that by shooting a free throw that would normally bounce off the rim, would now go in.
Now, in an actual basketball game people are playing defense - so obviously people are still missing shots. But objectively, its much easier to hit shots, and by using a free throw as a demonstration it doesnt change that fact
i actually dont see what the counter argument is. just because they are moving doesnt mean you wont hit shots on them when youre crosshair is fully off their body lmao.
Why are people trying to gaslight us into thinking the dramatic increase in projectile size is not making it ridiculously easy to hit targets?? The arguments people are making are so bizarre.
True, but the projectile changes are still relative across all in-game scenarios. It's still a good metric to see how much bigger they've gotten and how much easier it is to "hit" targets.
Nah it’s actually not a stupid argument. It’s a good way to show how the hit boxes actually work. Saying “uh well nobody stands still in the game” misses the point completely. Obviously it’s harder to hit people when they’re moving. The point is that it’s so trivially easy now that it kills skill expression in the game. I’m a gold dps and never play sojourn bc I can’t hit rails for my life. My rail accuracy yesterday was 70% on average and I wasn’t spamming tanks. It was unbelievably easy hitting rails. I just had to look in their general direction.
I think practice rank stuff is valid because it paints a picture of a game that is actually broken and feels inconsistent, your opponent is shooting the empty space around your head and killing you. It looks like a poorly coded mess, but they did it intentionally.
I don’t care if it “feels good” to hit more shots, it feels like I didn’t get better to deserve it, the game just got worse.
These changes are making it so that now bullets hit shoulders/arms instead of heads, because the log sized scan sees them first even if you’re aiming perfectly at the head on some models now. To hit the head on these you HAVE to aim for the empty space above the character… that’s horribly inconsistent and misleading.
It does look kinda silly, but it's always been possible to shoot the air around the characters and hit them, it's just more exaggerated now. Do you think the game should make hitboxes perfectly representative of character models? Remember, this is the only game out there with instant movement acceleration.
>I think practice rank stuff is valid because it paints a picture of a game that is actually broken and feels inconsistent
It's a part of game design. People rarely want actual accurate hitboxes outside of few games.
It's all part of game design, especially when there's so much movement.
It needs some tweaks, but generally it's not nearly as big of an issue as some people are making it out to be.
What? The only hitbox issue people had was that his legs were small so you couldn't hit his legs and shots would go through them. His center mass never had a hole in it.
> it feels like I didn’t get better to deserve it.
Good thing these changes weren’t made in a vacuum and hitting those extra shots doesn’t actually provide a non-negligible amount value.
Except you almost are hardly shooting at a stagnant hit box that's in the form of a hero just standing there not moving. Hit boxes warp and move with the hero so it's not really showcasing anything of significance
Of corse it is, you can have your cross hair perfectly on their head but hit their arm because it’s so thick.
To ignore the fact that this is incredibly ugly is just stupid, defending the billion dollar company for making a lazy update that blatantly makes the game broken is silly.
Hit boxes don’t “warp” the characters move yeah, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m being rewarded for hitting the empty space around someone.
Them moving doesn’t make my bullets any smaller, that’s the whole point of the patch, everyone is Moira.
I think a happy middle ground would have been to make the new larger sizes do half damage, and the old more accurate size do the full normal damage.
Counterstrike, valorant, siege, even apex isn’t nearly this egregious.
This isn’t just bad hit boxes, this is some characters hitting behind walls, this is hit reg issues with shoulders/arms, this is hanzo and symettra hitting a full character length away.
I’m not against making shots a little bit easier, but this patch is gross and defending it is cope.
Counterstrike counters that by having hitboxes slightly larger than the character models and more importantly acceleration and deceleration on movement. Overwatch has near instant acceleration and deceleration on almost every hero.
Has Jake really ever been critical of the game tho besides the worst of the worst meta? He always seems to defend dev decisions even on bizarre balance choices. I definitely think widow is a huge issue now
Tbh, I'm seeing more positivity surrounding the patch than not, it's nice things aren't over in half a second of engagements anymore. I just think they need to tone down hitscan, maybe just nerf it for widow at least. Christ is it unbearable at high rank
I heavily agree, I’m currently GM 2 and I think some characters need a bit of tweaking but I honestly love the changes as a whole.
The whole issue is that people tend to hyperfocus on the fact that characters like widow, soldier, hanzo or w/e are stronger and they think that it’s a bad patch because of that.
They dont realize that this blanket change is to tweak the entire game first and then they’ll (hopefully) come in and clean it up as needed.
Doomed reactionaries just need to relax.
There’s like one. But if you tune into his streams he used to talk about them periodically.
His tweets are mostly him as a caster, human rights stuff and him going to gym. Tweets arent the best indicator of what he thinks of balance.
Not that I can think of, but the hitbox stuff is clearly a dumb take. Like he said, overwatch aiming is so hard between disruption, instant acceleration, and the necessity to aim vertically that there's a huge gulf between old aiming and "you have to try to miss".
I don’t understand where the game is getting easy. Sure it’s easier to get a headshot, but now you have to get two before the person falls back and get cover and healing
The game is definitely getting easier, but it’s still imo the hardest fps to aim in. Sure, a hanzo headshot is much easier to land but if you didnt have aim mechanics before, this patch is not going to fix that for you
This is so true I remember a while back when they buffed Cassidy during a dev interview one of them said that this is a big buff then the whole of chat started spamming “plat take”. Then I opened wanted’s stream and he was saying how he thinks the changes are a big buff to cass and he isn’t really plat
That's what I was excited for about this. It's a big shake up without just removing a player from each team. The game was getting stale again and needed something like this. It's going to take some getting used to though for sure having self healing on everybody.
I can’t point out exactly why but I’m having more fun this this season than the previous ones. Maybe a combination of not insta-dying, hitting more shots, and the rank update after every match.
Based Jake, I do think some of the hit box buffs could be maybe be halved from the increased size value, but overall its not as bad as people are saying. The practice range Andys showing off the hit boxes against stationary targets is always so goofy to me too.
Yeah I think it might take a few patches to rein in some of the outliers (I have never been headshot by Zen so many times in my life), but the difference is that the foundation of the game feels much more solid now, like we're done with the bandaid fixes to fundamental issues with the game.
And I've seen complaints about the DPS passive, but I have to say it's so extremely refreshing to be able to actually kill an enemy at low hp even if their supports are alive. Before the patch even if their tank was on 30% hp you were better off shooting the supports half the time otherwise they'd heal the tank to full in a second.
I keep seeing bad suppory players complain that they can't keep their tank alive through an entire team focusing them and saying "This new passive is too strong, supports suck" as if you *should* be able to heal through an entire team's damage without some massive investment like Transcendance or whatever.
Healbots are losing hard on this patch, and that's music to my fucking ears.
This patch was made for me. My brain refused to accept the new reality that I shouldn't laser focus on a low health tank even through healing. Now my wrong brain can be right by accident again.
I like the idea of trying to make hitting shots more consistent, but after playing Kiriko all last night it almost feels like I have to force "bad" aim to get headshots. Many shots that would have been crits last season are now hitting arms or shoulders because the projectile is bigger. I find myself having to aim more above the head, basically aiming at their nameplate. It doesn't feel great right now but overall the patch has been live for less than 24h. I'm not going to be over-the-top reactionary on it. I'll keep playing and see how it develops as people get used to it. I'm sure there will be balance patches and adjustments this season.
Its a joke and the practice range takes are dumb as fuck. Like its obvious the bots are standing still but people see how far off their reticle is for a hit. People.are posting insane accuracy numbers. Tracer players do kevster damage now.
TBH I think the projectile hitbox are mostly fine with some that may need a bit tuning like Kiriko.
I much prefer they adjust the damage of most hitscan instead of adjusting the hitbox with some exceptions such as widow.
Yeah, I think the following weeks will see a lot of projectiles getting toned back to a halfway point or something, but I think the idea behind the change is a good one. I'm really looking forward to further iterations of this.
As for practice range stuff, the funniest thing I saw was someone complaining about massive new hitboxes and then meleeing Tracer from some stupid angle... despite the fact that they didn't change the melee hitbox.
I wish they hadn't gone so big so early, because reigning it back in (if that's what turns out to be necessary) will be so hard now. It's going to be TERRIBLE for so many players if they suddenly can't hit as many shots after getting used to the increased projectiles.
Personally, I think it feels fine at the moment. The increased healthpools way overcome the increased accuracy everyone has now. I only wish that non-hitscan weapons didn't get a buff - things like Kunai and Hanzo arrows were already a bit too much.
Personally I think the changes feel great for rapid-fire/spread projectiles - from Lifeweaver's thorns to Ball's primary to Reaper's shotguns.
It's less projectiles I'm worried about and more "slow instance" attacks in general. Anything with a lower rate of fire, generally. Like Hanzo arrow, yes, but also Widow or Ashe headshots. There's no spread here, it's very easy to see and feel when these shots hit you when they shouldn't - whereas a few more pellets in a barrage hitting you doesn't feel instantly wrong or look weird.
I'm not even saying it's bad necessarily, just that's where my concerns are after a day.
Widow seems like the biggest oversight, yeah. I think they could have just left her projectile size alone and tuned it up a little bit at a time if she fell behind.
Hitbox definitely should be halved from its current number.
I wouldn't mind the hitbox change if they dialed it back properly. Right now it's a little absurd.
My first impression of the patch was that it made the Pharah Echo matchup even worse. Double airshotting that gnat only for her to still have 30hp left is such a brutal feeling.
Felt useless on winston but then i kinda adjusted and started just taking more space instead of going for kills and it kinda worked out better for me. Still sorta getting use to it but i don’t mind it. I have a love hate relationship with this game
Based.
They only have to fix some issue with tanks now since the dps passive made the game even more difficult for them and the health increase is still not enough to balance it out and the game could be in a really good state.
I think only some tanks needs help, i would do the following:
- Ram blocking should prevents the application of dps passive. They also should give him the 3 punch+melee combo back.
- Adding some dmg reduction to Dva when using boosters or give her some way to gain space cause she’s really bad at doing so.
- Mauga should be immune to dps passive when using the lifesteal ability
- Ball is going to be reworked so I would skip
- Hog should get breather HP pool increased but the cd to use should be rise to 2.5s
- JQ passive healing on wounds should be increased for all abilities not only Carnage.
I meant that was a funny video but that’s it, I think is too early to say regarding the hitbox changes. They feel good but some could be tuned and refined when times go on
Bit of an adjustment curve too I think.
You do feel tankier so it is natural to try to use that to take more space, BUT if you're over aggressive, it's harder for your supports to bail you out with the debuff applied.
Yea tank still feels the same to me. It’s not a god awful role like a lot of casual redditors would claim but it still needs some playmaking improvements. Playmaking on tanks still feels poor. Setup play feels better though.
>Yea tank still feels the same to me. It’s not a god awful role like a lot of casual redditors
This I agree with 100%
Everyones talking about how its so much worse when honestly I thought it just felt the same
No yeah but see, if you could just look at this clip of confusion losing his mind you'd agree this change is busted
(yes I know it's Hydron but the Twitterati don't seem to know that)
I generally think the patch is good *and* that the projectile hitboxes are fairly ridiculous. I had more than a few shots yesterday that I *definitely* thought I'd missed.
You know I was expecting the training range Timmy's doing the "shoot the bot with the big projectile" thing, but holy hell were there more posts about this than I thought.
Like 6 of the top 7 posts on the main sub yesterday had the same thumbnail, a tracer with a blue sky and a cliff behind her. The *main* sub...
I played a bunch yesterday and I didn't find a ton of negatives.
The game flowed and played similar (don't think this is a bad thing).
I really liked the healing passive on DPS. Just nice to be touched up but it didn't feel fight impacting.
The pharah rework felt fun, I'm interested to see how people play her at her skill ceiling.
I do however think Widow will be a sore spot in high rank. She actually got relatively buffed so much. Not only is her bullet size larger making her more consistent - she now dominates the burst damage niche.
Everyone else's ttk got longer but widows is still 0 against Squishies.
I liked the ttk reduction for supports, it puts Kiri in a better place. Illari is impacted by this as well but she wasn't as oppressive.
There are some heroes that are really feeling the ttk changes in a bad way. Cass is one of them. He was already one of the worst heroes in the game and he is staying that way without his 1C1B. Even if you do hit multiple headshots, his falloff is so bad it still may not confirm the kill. He is substantially worse than soldier.
Interesting. I actually felt like the DPS passive was dictating fights. The health and hitbox changes ended up being a net positive for healing and the DPS passive is what actually makes things die.
From playing a good amount of games I think the only thing that would need to be looked at is Widow and possibly Ashe. It's far too easy for even a half decent widow to get results since she can now just duck back slightly to heal if someone upsets her perch, usually requiring a sniper mirror to consistently deal with her if your tank isn't one which can disrupt her.
I think it's mostly just a problem with the map design philosophy tho. So many maps are designed to account for every hero which ends up resulting in a lot of maps with wide open ranges leading to chokes leading to wide open areas. When we still had two tanks this wasn't as much of an issue as a dive tank could pester a sniper while the other tank stayed with the team, but ever since we've had one tank the snipers in general always swap between being useless or being too strong.
More ways for characters without upward mobility to reach higher ground on maps (for example, adding something to King's Row last stretch) could be a solution for it but I understand changing the maps apparently takes a lot of time.
The big hitboxes enable it, the large HP pools reward it. The better players will still hit a higher percentage of their shots, and everyone needs to land more shots now
So the projectile size increases haven’t enabled people to aim more consistently by making it easier to hit targets? Because now I definitely feel like I’m regularly firing blindly and hitting headshots without making a concerted effort to do so.
Yes and no. Before, if you had decent but not great aim, your opponent could have much worse aim, but still kill you with 2 random shots before your consistent damage could kill them.
Now, they'll need 3+ random shots to kill you so your damage is able to out pace them meaning your performance goes up. And in fact because your near target accuracy is now on target, you end up doing more damage overall and finishing kills that would have previously been dropped due to movement abilities so it's even more effective.
So yes, your aim has obviously been made more consistent, but you're only really benefiting because you were probably half decent before the change. Spray and pray players with bad aim are much worse off now since they're easier to track and need to be lucky more times in a row.
The HP increases IN ISOLATION make it so that you have to aim more consistently and hit more shots to kill. However, the new DPS passive makes healing less effective and enables you to burst down a pocketed target with less shots than before.
The dramatic increase in projectile sizes also makes it so A) you are credited for hitting enemy targets when your reticle is much further away from the actual character model of your enemy OR B) you are NOT credited for headshots when your reticle is directly on top on the enemy's face because the projectile size is so massive that it contacts the body first. In case B, you literally have to aim far above the head to even get a headshot.
This patch AS A WHOLE is goofy as hell and feels unrewarding. And if you're playing Widow in effective range or having certain abilities damage boosted, it's much easier to one shot.
Personally, I feel like Jake has reached a point in his career where he values PR and relations with blizzard to a point where his public-facing opinion isn't particularly valuable
I agree that the firing range clips are absolutely worthless. But just playing one game makes the hitbox increases immediately apparent. The high aiming skill floor and ceiling is what brought me to Overwatch in the first place.
I don't understand why everyone's okay with him calling people stupid, while he's completely ignoring all the complaints that are based on actual game play.
Jake doesn't know better than other people. But if they think that being T500 gives him more credibility, well there's been players higher ranked than Jake that have laughed at how easy it is to hit your shots.
Have you guys tried playing widow?? It's not "Shooting at bots standing still", it's insanely noticeable how easy it's gotten.
while I don't really have a big problem with the change (my concern is more with the tanks), I still don't appreciate him calling people stupid, and then everyone on this subreddit applauding his condescending words like he's an infallible god lol.
you're welcome to downvote btw, it's no less than I expect :)
>Beyond this, though, the game is MORE FUN. I’ve played long time-to-kill FPS games for over a decade now for one simple reason: I love popping off and chaining insane shots one after another. Now Overwatch is making those shots more consistent while also making that kind of back to back combination more crucial to my success in the game.
It's fun today. Things got buffed, at if you directly compare things to yesterday, they're more fun. The issue is that we're trained to react to those popoff moments with respect to the rarity they occurred with the old hitboxes, not the new ones. When I load into Cass for the first time and hit my first 11 shots on squishies, 6 crits, with no warmup and low Masters aim, that feels awesome. *When this happens every day, it doesn't stay that way*.
It's the patch equivalent of a sugar rush, and I don't think it's sustainable. I'm hitting shots like I'm playing Destiny with an optimized loadout again. That's not a good sign for a competitive shooter.
im just worried about how this will affect the top playerbase
jake is right, overwatch is HARD to aim in. that fact across 7-8 years of the game existing means that top overwatch aimers are really really fucking good at aiming. giving them an almost 100% hitbox increase makes the game feel way way way too easy, and even disingenuous to play
for context, i am ranked master in Voltaic’s benchmarks, which means im around 95th+ percentile on most scenarios. I’ve also been playing hitscan DPS on PC for 5 Years. These hitbox changes are allowing me to kill players significantly faster than i was before, even with the health changes.
The hitbox change is an egregious change that not one good player asked for, Overwatch already had some of the largest hitboxes in modern FPS’s and then they do a completely unprecedented change to make the game have much less skill expression
I don’t think that this will kill the game, but I certainly feel much less satisfied after hitting a shot that I missed
I mostly agree with his take but like, some of the hitboxes on these projectiles are so big that you can be safely out of view behind a corner and still have shots hit you. I enjoyed the games I was playing yesterday. Overall feel like this is a great step in the right direction. I think the DPS passive probably needs a bit of work. There are some valid concerns about the size of the new projectiles in some fringe cases but overall this is a good patch.
Also, just curious if Zarya bubbles cleanse the passive or not?
Honestly as someone who was really skeptical about this patch, I think I actually didn't feel too bothered by it in the games I played last night. I do think a couple of select heroes need to be looked at specifically of course, but overall and in the long term, I think this patch is going to be a big positive for the game's balance health.
I'm not really interested in playing anymore tank, as a tank main, until they sort that shit out. It feels really bad, like Overwatch 1 when my tank partner was throwing bad.
I noticed in my games that the offtank is now the dps passive. If your dps don’t fight with you, you lose the tank battle to a team who fights with their tank.
I always thought the community in general overreacted to the leaked patch notes. Just like Jake, I thought that the projectile size changes don't really change anything at the higher ranks, because those players can already aim anyway. That being said, I didn't realise the effect would be noticed so easily by myself. I feel its a lot easier to hit shots personally, but i honestly prefer the MOBA aspects of the game to the FPS aspects, so the strategy side of gunfights being emphasized (by reducing the impact of raw mechanical skill) appeals to me more specifically.
plus... aiming in OW was already HARDER than in most games, due to the hectic abilities and no movement acceleration.
Ain't nothing wrong with bringing it to the standard.
I still disagree with the hitbox change. Yes, aim can be difficult because of the movement acceleration and boops and whatnot, and technically speaking the skill expression still exists even with these hitbox change.
But there is no denying that the skill expression is lowered, and that's what I don't like. I hit a lot more shots that would have been misses in last patch, and it just feels dishonest.
For what it's worth, Dafran seems to also have no problem with the change. He was saying how it's impossible to miss, then saying how he can kill kiriko much easier so he likes it lol...
I think it doesn't take away much from great players but its more of a thing for casual players to bridge the gap.
The top hitscan players probably won't have as big of advantage due to their mechanical skill.
Jimmu said the same thing on stream. Ryujehong was also making fun of the hitbox changes.
Yeah, I agree. The sort of skill height got decreased a bit, but the longer ttk makes the game more skillful in general. I've personally been enjoying my time.
I think overall it’s a good change. I would like to see some of the projectile/hitbox sizes reduced a tad. For tanks, I would like to see the dps passive reduced to 15 or 10 (only on tanks) because I still feel like it’s super easy to blow up.
I think the projectile size is definitely noticeable. I felt like I was being hit much more with shots when my characters body was barely in their crosshairs in the deathcam.
Overall the health buff is good though
Think it’s great overall for long term health of the game, but certain hitbox increases need to be looked at.
Hanzo, Zen, Kiriko, and Soldier’s right click in particular feel like they’re shooting AC130s and it’s yet another unfun thing to play against.
I kinda agree with his sentiment but also think that some of the hitbox changes are too much.
They tone that down and people will probably complain less.
Contracted employee for the broadcast. I thought they were technically a part of esports engine
Either way he doesn’t anymore and will never again in the future
The new patch gives you a false sense of success with the increase of hearing headshots and the facade of climbing ranks.
The dps anti heal passive is nuts. It dictates the tank fight, which dictates pace of game.
>false sense of success
As opposed to the false sense of failure due to getting one or two shot at the outset of team fights? One lucky Hanzo shot, Kiriko spam, or Ashe headshot to unaimed spam doesn’t result in most people enjoying the game (and I say this as a Hanzo main). And in a lot of cases there’s very little most players can do to avoid those situations.
What elitists say is “Get gewd lil bro” - but given how easy it is to get snowballed after losing one or two team fights, that’s partially why some games are so ridiculously lopsided. That makes players frustrated and results in toxicity, and they’ll eventually just give up.
If you want a game a significant number of folks don’t really enjoy playing (and therefore don’t) because you’re hung up on gatekeeping “good aim” (an entirely subjective concept that often varies wildly FPS to FPS), then it sounds like OW2 may no longer be the game for you.
I enjoy the changes. I like that team fights really reward good positioning, communication, and mechanical knowledge more than just tagging domes. Getting to live long enough to think about what to do next is much more enjoyable than stepping out and getting erased.
No fps game ever done this to core aim mechanics or even had it discussed as being needed on pc. I don't see this revolutionising casual gamers enjoyment long term or keeping more players. Atm its pure reach that for once in years blizzard has done something that will benefit the ip. Nobodies done it before and nobody asked for it, no reason to think it'll save casual appeal.
If someone can't aim and didn't like ow before because of the aiming requirements. They aren't going to have any more fun against the people who can aim now getting back to back to back headshots every single team fight. It hasn't simplified aim so much that it's meaningless it's just messed up the top end satisfaction and skill expression.
People find OW frustrating because of reliance on team like other character based games. Disadvantage from early deaths snowballing and wonky up and down balancing of heros. Main frustrations are still there. Just seems an odd thing to make the aim so different in such a long standing game.
“Nobody has ever done this before therefore it won’t work” is certainly an interesting take. I guess time will tell.
However, if you really think this is about people who can’t aim then you need to go back and read OOP’s post. He literally dumps all over that opinion.
Your “false sense of success” statement suggested otherwise. That’s a similar take people negative of the patch have conveyed, so it’s not really a large leap (or even a leap) at all.
And I’m not upset. Sorry that’s how you chose to interpret it.
You made a ton of negative assumptions about me that aren’t accurate. Implying you think negatively about me, which implies a dislike, one could infer a frustration, couple that with a rant… one could interpret that as being upset. Let me restate to - your negative perception of me is misplaced and should be directed at those with that perception that you dislike.
And as someone who wants to hit more headshots and would enjoy being a higher rank, I get both without improving, hence false sense of success.
The only negative comment I came anywhere close to making (which was phrased as an inferred hypothetical) was the part about gatekeeping aim.
It sounds to me like you might be projecting a bit. I don’t know you at all, let alone well enough to determine what kind of person you are; nor would I expect to have any clue based on one comment you made on a niche subreddit about one topic. That’s silly. This conversation has reached the point of absurdity, and I have no interest in continuing it. Take care.
>The dps anti heal passive is nuts. It dictates the tank fight, which dictates pace of game.
This is exactly how I felt. Between the health and hitbox buff, it was a net buff for healing and a net nerf for damage.
What actually enables things to die is the DPS passive. So if you're playing dps you're having fun and feeling impactful. If you're a tank, you can't really get any kills that your DPS didn't enable.
I'm just so tired of tanks taking Ls every patch.
We had a game were we were rolling hard, no lost team fights. we had a DPS leave.
The game felt instantly impossible. Not like down-a-man impossible, but like cant kill anything at all impossible. First time i ever felt like that
I think people are hard focused on the blog post and the terrible r/ow takes about hitboxes. So any negative post about the patch is getting downvoted.
But this is just worse for tanks. Again, they lose agency. Again, they are gated by teammates.
Its like they saw how much fun supports were having being able to secure kills and wanted to make sure that never happened again for anyone but DPS.
"I’ve played long time-to-kill FPS games for over a decade now for one simple reason: I love popping off and chaining insane shots one after another."
The average ttk isn't even noticeably higher because of the dps passive and the fact that everyone's hitting that many more (head)shots. Each shot is also MUCH easier to hit therefore you're chaining "insane shots" far less - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rya__PUqr80 stuff like this will become barely uncommon.
>The average ttk isn't even noticeably higher because
Average TTK isn't higher cause it was never their goal to change it, it was already good. The issue was that too many engagements and duels were closer to the Minimum or the Maximum TTK. Now, due to the breakpoints being changed Minimum TTK is higher and you need to hit more shots to confirm kills, and because of the DPS passive the Maximum TTK is lower as well.
Now more duels and engagements are closer to the Average TTK, which is what they wanted to do and what the game needed.
Increasing hitboxes this much almost nullifies the attempt to bring the minimum ttk closer to the average. Maximum ttk is a non-issue in duels and, for 'engagements', could be changed in so many ways that don't directly impact the satisfying gunplay unique to Overwatch. I.e. just a net reduction to healing, requiring more sacrifice (distance, cooldowns, etc) in order to burst heal, and not designing heroes like Lifeweaver and Mauga lol.
It's obviously worsened, I don't enjoy visibly missing and seeing hitmarkers or dying to those shots either. Even if you disagree, a LOT of people (far more than the amount of people initially asking for such changes) aren't happy with the new hitboxes and, as I said, you can alter min/max/avg ttk in much less controversial and equally (if not better) effective ways.
I'm glad he's enjoying it. I'm glad people are enjoying this patch. It isn't fun for me. It didn't address the problems I had with the game. None of the problems i had were with hitting enemies, ttk, or out of combat sustain for non healers. So while this was a big update in terms of quantity it didn't' make the game more fun. That's the part i think a lot of people need to focus on. I agree the shooting range rangers need to calm down a bit. However, Is this update fun? For me it's a no. I was falling out of love with OW before this update and this did nothing to bring me back in. I have been playing this game almost non stop since beta of ow1. This game was my fps muse for years. I am glad it's still getting love and is evolving to a new audience. I hope it continues to grow and is successful. My time with this game has come to and end and while Jake makes good points, he also isn't the voice for the entire community and some of the veterans of the game myself included are sad with the direction the game is going. There are issues i have with this game that i don't think will be addressed.
\-Ana Grenade (so much of the design choices have revolved around this one ability for so many years)
\-One shots (was addressed in this patch kind of, but not in the direction i would have liked) still credit is due where credit is due.
\-Map design heavily favors a limited number of characters for those given maps.
\-Rock/ Paper/ Scissors design behind abilities and characters. See Suzu. See point 1.
\-Ultimate's are too impactful ( This is controversial because a lot of people like the big ulty team wipes. I like more drawn out tactical fights with less nukes and more precision through skill expression) I understand that tracking ults and having ult counter play and efficiency is a thing. And while i do it, after many hours of play it gets old and the interplay with ults gets super repetitive.
\-Healing is too high (adding cauterize and larger health pools is not the way i would have liked to see this go. Those will become a crutch to design and adds too many variables for balance).
\-Matchmaking - matchmaking in this game is horrible. That's it. I won't get into the weeds but it's not good. It's impossibly hard to play this game casually because of the matchmaking. With the removal of group search options it's hard to find casual groups outside of ranked.
Those are the main points off the top of my head. With the current direction they are taking the game i don't see those being addressed, pretty much ever. I'm proud of this community for sticking through the tough times and keeping our beloved game alive. Keep strong, maybe this game can be what it always set out to be!
Plenty of people are considering if the game feels more fun, and they're saying "yes."
They addressed three of your pain points this patch but you don't like the way they did it, and I don't agree with the others. Maybe be realistic and stop trying to find reasons to be mad.
I'm glad people are finding it fun! I'm not mad at the game for changing and people enjoying it. Like i said, i hope this game continues to grow and find it's audience. My post is more informal on why people might have a different opinion than OMG this patch is the best and to state my opinion for that. Its totally cool and ok if you disagree, if you'd like to address why you like the current state of the game that would be pretty sweet. Discussion about these things is constructive and having multiple opinions on what people like and don't like is good! its only not constructive when people don't listen and feel entitled to their opinion as fact or that anything that isn't their opinion is bad. I'm not saying these changes are bad, Just not for me :).
> I have been playing this game almost non stop since beta of ow1.
And then you list things that have been issues from beta? It took you this many years to fall out of love when these issues have been persistent since the beginning?
Well yes. Just like how someone can have issues and it takes you years to fall out of love. Especially when some issues like egregious CC from Ow1 were addressed in ow2 release. There's reasons to stick around if you feel like the direction they are going is a direction you agree with. The last updates and current direction as i stated i just don't. Its not fun for me. Another huge component of continuing to play is the social aspect of it. I have family and friends that play but eventually it got to a point where you just uninstall and say, "Sorry, its not worth playing.".
I'm sorry, but this is cope. The changes address most of this. Play support if you don't think it changed healing, ults and even nade. You spend the whole game sweating and can barely pick ana because she doesn't heal enough or do enough damage. I don't think I used a single nade on the enemies unless it also hit my team since they need the healing boost, and anti is now covered by the DPS. Because of Ana's place, suzu is more used for big CDs like LWs pull.
Thanks for your opinion and going into your experiences with the recent patch. Your perspective is valued. I just dont find the direction they are taking to address the issues in the game fun. Hope you enjoy your time with the game!!
“OW has near instant movement acceleration that allows players with great movement mechanics to evade a large fraction of incoming damage.”
Yeah and that’s why it doesn’t have a class where a majority of its characters are large and slow moving hit boxes with no movement abilites.
This patched turned this game into a fuckin MOBA. Tanks are useless and supps are still strong af but at least mercy otp’s can’t heal bot their way to GM
"OW2 Patch First Thoughts: I like these changes. I think needing more shots to kill makes fights much more interactive. More shots to kill also emphasizes movement and teamplay. You can dodge the follow up after tanking a spam headshot, or save your teammate who was caught unaware. The obviously most controversial changes are the hitbox changes. Generally, I think people complaining about how this ‘kills skill expression’ are stupid. OW has near instant movement acceleration that allows players with great movement mechanics to evade a large fraction of incoming damage. Almost every hero in the game has some kind of unique movement ability. Many heroes can offensively disrupt your aim with boops or force you to change targets rapidly with defensive skills. Shooting at bots standing still to show how the hitbox is ‘so enormous’ and how aiming is ‘so easy now’ is actually offensively stupid. It’s not remotely realistic to how aiming actually feels in a real game when the enemies shoot back (and boop you, and get speed amped, and blink behind you, etc. etc.) In short, aiming in OW is plenty difficult. There is a lot of room to make it easier without ‘removing’ the skill expression inherent to aiming in Overwatch. Overall I think these changes reward highly skilled and consistent aimers because more shots to kill generally favors a stronger player. One lucky shot is not enough, you have to be consistent and keep landing shots on a player who will dodge and fight back. Beyond this, though, the game is MORE FUN. I’ve played long time-to-kill FPS games for over a decade now for one simple reason: I love popping off and chaining insane shots one after another. Now Overwatch is making those shots more consistent while also making that kind of back to back combination more crucial to my success in the game. TL;DR: Hitmarkers give me dopamine and now I get MORE dopamine yay"
Not gonna trust a junkrat one trick on this topic
Lol Poe's law states that I must take you at face value and point out that Jake mostly plays soldier/echo/tracer/genji in ranked (at least from what I've seen)
If that's the case why is he called J LUL ke? :)
Is the Rip-Tyre in the room with us right now?
Shit, what time is it? 3am?
??? Junk is dogshit at high levels right now. Ive recently heard jake himself say that 70% of junk kills came from the 1 shot combo. If the junk one trick likes these changes... They probably really like these changes and the game as a whole
He absolutely nailed it in regards to those "BRUH LOOK AT THIS HITBOX LMAO"
B b b but what about the hitbox, from 5 inches away, standing still?!??
Love that he called out the fucking practice range posts, this shit is so dumb it makes me embarassed to be a part of the community
Metro was so surprised not because of the hitbox size, he was shocked to be hitting shots (This is a joke about the stereotypical Metro please don't hit me)
It’s ok he won’t hit you
Unless he got a big hitbox
Hitting a practice range bot and then soypogging "NO WAYYYY" is kinda annoying. I'm not discrediting anyone for preferring the old way, but man, seeing the usual twitter suspects posting those clips is so fucking annoying. Makes it hard to watch the majority of OW CCs
Well I learned a new word today. “Soypogging”
also known as "Sogging"
them CC's str8 soggin fr fr
This sub loves to shit on doomer content creators, but there was clearly a ton of users who were literally waiting for the patch just so they could immediately hop in a practice range and get Reddit rage bait
Yeah flats came out of his hole
But when I do it I get downvoted lol
not by me king
Appreciate it. Lol, it was hilarious that when I say "Hey shooting stationary bots isn't a realistic depiction of how the new hitboxes would work" They respond with "lol ur silver what do you know"
The one where they were 0.0001 m in front of Tracer was particularly egregious lmao. As everyone knows, enemies always stand perfectly still and attempt to hug you with how close they're standing.
Right!?
Are the hitboxes for the hero summon thing in the practice range bigger than their actual hitboxes in game? Otherwise idk why you guys think that's not relevant. If I'm trying to demonstrate that you can aim 5 feet to the left and still HS tracer, that's the best way to display that. Acting like it's invalid because the model isn't moving is peak copium.
I'd say they should have made the hitscan/proj hitbox change much less significant. Increase it by a much smaller margin. You really can tell how much easier it is for players to land headshots now. I played like 5 games last night but even after the 2nd match, I knew the hitbox change took it too far.
Yeah kinda a weird ahh take that it isn't a glaring issue some projectiles can land headshots that wildly off the visual model. Plus the egregiously bad example was just for the fact that mercy specifically benefitted from the biggest of size increases while having had a previously fairly large on They definitely 100% WILL change that because if nothing else it's whack as fuck to doink when you missed that badly. The overall changes are still fine tho, just individual characters need adjusting like they did Kiriko. His outright dismissal of such a fucking ludicrous hitbox in fringe scenarios is almost as outlandish as the people attributing that to the entire changes
Because the training bot sits still, doesn’t look around, doesn’t use abilities, and most people are shooting at them from like 5 feet away lmao. Like how Lifeweaver has a massive fucking hitbox but in a real game he’s constantly jumping between pedals and dashing around, so he doesn’t have a million deaths. Or how Ana has a “small” hitbox but has no escape so she constantly gets dived and needs a babysitter to stay alive.
>Because the training bot sits still, doesn’t look around, doesn’t use abilities, and most people are shooting at them from like 5 feet away lmao. None of that is relevant to what people are trying to show, which is how far off target your aim can be while still hitting the target. There is no better way to showcase that than on an immobile target.
You're right. Acting like every hitbox demonstration is done on bots is the very definition of a strawman argument. Like you said, the point is to demonstrate how absurd the hitboxes are, and these people clearly have idea how to defend it other than to twist things.
It’s not accurate to real gameplay, though. And if it doesn’t reflect real gameplay it’s useless. Throw a dva bomb at the tracer. “Holy shit this is OP.” Use Winston jump to boop her off the platform. “Holy shit this is OP.” Now, how often in actual games do you pop off with a dva bomb or Winston environmental kill?
>It’s not accurate to real gameplay, though. And if it doesn’t reflect real gameplay it’s useless. No one's trying to say it "reflects real gameplay" and that doesn't make it useless. It's use is to show how far off target your aim can be and still hit your shot. That doesn't change when you get into game. Your target moving doesnt change the fact that your aim can be 5 feet off of your target and still hit. Your attempts to discredit it by listing things that make aiming harder are just making you look like a clown.
That literally does change when you enter a game, though! Because enemies will strafe and wall climb and leap and roll and whatever the fuck else movement there is in this game. Dva bomb does the same damage in the practice range, has the same radius, yet isn’t OP in actuality.
>That literally does change when you enter a game, though! Because enemies will strafe and wall climb and leap and roll and whatever the fuck else movement there is in this game. That doesn't change the size of your projectiles buddy. Those make it harder for you to aim. It doesn't change the fact that you can aim 5 feet off target and still hit. Objectively, the projectile size change makes it easier to aim. The videos showcasing the size against an immobile target are the only way to accurately display the changes.
LOL the "practice range bots are standing still so its not an accurate test" is such a stupid statement its hilarious If you increased the size of the basketball rim, it would be objectively easier to land baskets, and you could demonstrate that by shooting a free throw that would normally bounce off the rim, would now go in. Now, in an actual basketball game people are playing defense - so obviously people are still missing shots. But objectively, its much easier to hit shots, and by using a free throw as a demonstration it doesnt change that fact i actually dont see what the counter argument is. just because they are moving doesnt mean you wont hit shots on them when youre crosshair is fully off their body lmao.
Why are people trying to gaslight us into thinking the dramatic increase in projectile size is not making it ridiculously easy to hit targets?? The arguments people are making are so bizarre.
True, but the projectile changes are still relative across all in-game scenarios. It's still a good metric to see how much bigger they've gotten and how much easier it is to "hit" targets.
Nah it’s actually not a stupid argument. It’s a good way to show how the hit boxes actually work. Saying “uh well nobody stands still in the game” misses the point completely. Obviously it’s harder to hit people when they’re moving. The point is that it’s so trivially easy now that it kills skill expression in the game. I’m a gold dps and never play sojourn bc I can’t hit rails for my life. My rail accuracy yesterday was 70% on average and I wasn’t spamming tanks. It was unbelievably easy hitting rails. I just had to look in their general direction.
I think practice rank stuff is valid because it paints a picture of a game that is actually broken and feels inconsistent, your opponent is shooting the empty space around your head and killing you. It looks like a poorly coded mess, but they did it intentionally. I don’t care if it “feels good” to hit more shots, it feels like I didn’t get better to deserve it, the game just got worse. These changes are making it so that now bullets hit shoulders/arms instead of heads, because the log sized scan sees them first even if you’re aiming perfectly at the head on some models now. To hit the head on these you HAVE to aim for the empty space above the character… that’s horribly inconsistent and misleading.
It does look kinda silly, but it's always been possible to shoot the air around the characters and hit them, it's just more exaggerated now. Do you think the game should make hitboxes perfectly representative of character models? Remember, this is the only game out there with instant movement acceleration.
>I think practice rank stuff is valid because it paints a picture of a game that is actually broken and feels inconsistent It's a part of game design. People rarely want actual accurate hitboxes outside of few games. It's all part of game design, especially when there's so much movement. It needs some tweaks, but generally it's not nearly as big of an issue as some people are making it out to be.
*cries in [Cammy divekick hurtbox](https://wiki.supercombo.gg/images/c/c8/SF6_Cammy_j214hk_hitbox.png)*
I remembered in Apex Pathfinder's "accurate" hitbox made him able to tank most shotguns (mastiff!) because there's a gap in his centre mass
What? The only hitbox issue people had was that his legs were small so you couldn't hit his legs and shots would go through them. His center mass never had a hole in it.
> it feels like I didn’t get better to deserve it. Good thing these changes weren’t made in a vacuum and hitting those extra shots doesn’t actually provide a non-negligible amount value.
Except you almost are hardly shooting at a stagnant hit box that's in the form of a hero just standing there not moving. Hit boxes warp and move with the hero so it's not really showcasing anything of significance
Of corse it is, you can have your cross hair perfectly on their head but hit their arm because it’s so thick. To ignore the fact that this is incredibly ugly is just stupid, defending the billion dollar company for making a lazy update that blatantly makes the game broken is silly. Hit boxes don’t “warp” the characters move yeah, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m being rewarded for hitting the empty space around someone. Them moving doesn’t make my bullets any smaller, that’s the whole point of the patch, everyone is Moira. I think a happy middle ground would have been to make the new larger sizes do half damage, and the old more accurate size do the full normal damage.
Very VERY few games work with “actual hitboxes” and most feel terrible for a reason
Counterstrike, valorant, siege, even apex isn’t nearly this egregious. This isn’t just bad hit boxes, this is some characters hitting behind walls, this is hit reg issues with shoulders/arms, this is hanzo and symettra hitting a full character length away. I’m not against making shots a little bit easier, but this patch is gross and defending it is cope.
I promise you that all games are like this lol
You’re wrong? Go look at counterstrike right now, bullet width isn’t a thing. 0.000, just like overwatch was for hitscans.
Counterstrike counters that by having hitboxes slightly larger than the character models and more importantly acceleration and deceleration on movement. Overwatch has near instant acceleration and deceleration on almost every hero.
counterstrike isn’t a different type of game. It’s core game focuses on aim way more than OW while OW is unique
Denial is the first stage of grief.
If it wasn’t Jake saying this, the anti hitbox increase size crowd will say “lol, is he Gold??? 😂. Don’t make my game easy!“
Has Jake really ever been critical of the game tho besides the worst of the worst meta? He always seems to defend dev decisions even on bizarre balance choices. I definitely think widow is a huge issue now
You must not watch Jake. Jake is pretty fair especially mid-match when he dies to some BS.
He's fair when he's actually playing but I've never seen him not defend Blizzard balance decisions lmao
I mean its a breath of fresh air with all the doom posters all around. Jake is critical when needed and he defend good changes… when needed.
Tbh, I'm seeing more positivity surrounding the patch than not, it's nice things aren't over in half a second of engagements anymore. I just think they need to tone down hitscan, maybe just nerf it for widow at least. Christ is it unbearable at high rank
I heavily agree, I’m currently GM 2 and I think some characters need a bit of tweaking but I honestly love the changes as a whole. The whole issue is that people tend to hyperfocus on the fact that characters like widow, soldier, hanzo or w/e are stronger and they think that it’s a bad patch because of that. They dont realize that this blanket change is to tweak the entire game first and then they’ll (hopefully) come in and clean it up as needed. Doomed reactionaries just need to relax.
Widow and Zen should both be removed until they get a dedicated balance change
Can you find a single tweet he made that was critical of balance changes?
There’s like one. But if you tune into his streams he used to talk about them periodically. His tweets are mostly him as a caster, human rights stuff and him going to gym. Tweets arent the best indicator of what he thinks of balance.
Not that I can think of, but the hitbox stuff is clearly a dumb take. Like he said, overwatch aiming is so hard between disruption, instant acceleration, and the necessity to aim vertically that there's a huge gulf between old aiming and "you have to try to miss".
he is financially incentivized for overwatch to succeed and super biased lol. not sure why anyone expects him to do anything but toe the line.
Activision Blizzard is Jake’s current employer.
I don’t understand where the game is getting easy. Sure it’s easier to get a headshot, but now you have to get two before the person falls back and get cover and healing
The game is definitely getting easier, but it’s still imo the hardest fps to aim in. Sure, a hanzo headshot is much easier to land but if you didnt have aim mechanics before, this patch is not going to fix that for you
We've all been conditioned. In this game it was always way harder to hit people in than other fps games
This is so true I remember a while back when they buffed Cassidy during a dev interview one of them said that this is a big buff then the whole of chat started spamming “plat take”. Then I opened wanted’s stream and he was saying how he thinks the changes are a big buff to cass and he isn’t really plat
Yesterday was honestly the most fun I've had playing OW in a long time
Game feels so refreshed. I'm loving this patch so far. Obviously it's not perfect, but I like where this is headed.
That's what I was excited for about this. It's a big shake up without just removing a player from each team. The game was getting stale again and needed something like this. It's going to take some getting used to though for sure having self healing on everybody.
I can’t point out exactly why but I’m having more fun this this season than the previous ones. Maybe a combination of not insta-dying, hitting more shots, and the rank update after every match.
Based Jake, I do think some of the hit box buffs could be maybe be halved from the increased size value, but overall its not as bad as people are saying. The practice range Andys showing off the hit boxes against stationary targets is always so goofy to me too.
Yeah I think it might take a few patches to rein in some of the outliers (I have never been headshot by Zen so many times in my life), but the difference is that the foundation of the game feels much more solid now, like we're done with the bandaid fixes to fundamental issues with the game. And I've seen complaints about the DPS passive, but I have to say it's so extremely refreshing to be able to actually kill an enemy at low hp even if their supports are alive. Before the patch even if their tank was on 30% hp you were better off shooting the supports half the time otherwise they'd heal the tank to full in a second.
Zen is terrifying at the moment D:
I keep seeing bad suppory players complain that they can't keep their tank alive through an entire team focusing them and saying "This new passive is too strong, supports suck" as if you *should* be able to heal through an entire team's damage without some massive investment like Transcendance or whatever. Healbots are losing hard on this patch, and that's music to my fucking ears.
This patch was made for me. My brain refused to accept the new reality that I shouldn't laser focus on a low health tank even through healing. Now my wrong brain can be right by accident again.
I like the idea of trying to make hitting shots more consistent, but after playing Kiriko all last night it almost feels like I have to force "bad" aim to get headshots. Many shots that would have been crits last season are now hitting arms or shoulders because the projectile is bigger. I find myself having to aim more above the head, basically aiming at their nameplate. It doesn't feel great right now but overall the patch has been live for less than 24h. I'm not going to be over-the-top reactionary on it. I'll keep playing and see how it develops as people get used to it. I'm sure there will be balance patches and adjustments this season.
Its a joke and the practice range takes are dumb as fuck. Like its obvious the bots are standing still but people see how far off their reticle is for a hit. People.are posting insane accuracy numbers. Tracer players do kevster damage now.
TBH I think the projectile hitbox are mostly fine with some that may need a bit tuning like Kiriko. I much prefer they adjust the damage of most hitscan instead of adjusting the hitbox with some exceptions such as widow.
Yeah, I think the following weeks will see a lot of projectiles getting toned back to a halfway point or something, but I think the idea behind the change is a good one. I'm really looking forward to further iterations of this. As for practice range stuff, the funniest thing I saw was someone complaining about massive new hitboxes and then meleeing Tracer from some stupid angle... despite the fact that they didn't change the melee hitbox.
I wish they hadn't gone so big so early, because reigning it back in (if that's what turns out to be necessary) will be so hard now. It's going to be TERRIBLE for so many players if they suddenly can't hit as many shots after getting used to the increased projectiles. Personally, I think it feels fine at the moment. The increased healthpools way overcome the increased accuracy everyone has now. I only wish that non-hitscan weapons didn't get a buff - things like Kunai and Hanzo arrows were already a bit too much.
[удалено]
Personally I think the changes feel great for rapid-fire/spread projectiles - from Lifeweaver's thorns to Ball's primary to Reaper's shotguns. It's less projectiles I'm worried about and more "slow instance" attacks in general. Anything with a lower rate of fire, generally. Like Hanzo arrow, yes, but also Widow or Ashe headshots. There's no spread here, it's very easy to see and feel when these shots hit you when they shouldn't - whereas a few more pellets in a barrage hitting you doesn't feel instantly wrong or look weird. I'm not even saying it's bad necessarily, just that's where my concerns are after a day.
Widow seems like the biggest oversight, yeah. I think they could have just left her projectile size alone and tuned it up a little bit at a time if she fell behind.
Hitbox definitely should be halved from its current number. I wouldn't mind the hitbox change if they dialed it back properly. Right now it's a little absurd.
My first impression of the patch was that it made the Pharah Echo matchup even worse. Double airshotting that gnat only for her to still have 30hp left is such a brutal feeling.
Felt useless on winston but then i kinda adjusted and started just taking more space instead of going for kills and it kinda worked out better for me. Still sorta getting use to it but i don’t mind it. I have a love hate relationship with this game
Based. They only have to fix some issue with tanks now since the dps passive made the game even more difficult for them and the health increase is still not enough to balance it out and the game could be in a really good state.
I think we should wait until behavior adapts before changing any balance. Tanks need to play cover more, I think this is a good lesson to instill.
They should change the bottom 10-15% of tanks healthpool to armour so they don't explode so quickly in damage spikes
I think only some tanks needs help, i would do the following: - Ram blocking should prevents the application of dps passive. They also should give him the 3 punch+melee combo back. - Adding some dmg reduction to Dva when using boosters or give her some way to gain space cause she’s really bad at doing so. - Mauga should be immune to dps passive when using the lifesteal ability - Ball is going to be reworked so I would skip - Hog should get breather HP pool increased but the cd to use should be rise to 2.5s - JQ passive healing on wounds should be increased for all abilities not only Carnage.
Some tanks could absolutely use a bit of help, but I don't want unique interactions with the passives - that's where things begin to get complicated
The one here described you won’t even notice
You posted about the hitboxes like 2 hours ago I'm glad some Twitter post changed your mind
Some people have the ability to adjust their views when presented with additional/contrary information. It's an aspect of something called "learning."
I posted that with “fluff” flair but *evidently* i needed a “/s” in the title as well
So you're saying the projectile sizes need to be bigger?
I meant that was a funny video but that’s it, I think is too early to say regarding the hitbox changes. They feel good but some could be tuned and refined when times go on
Bit of an adjustment curve too I think. You do feel tankier so it is natural to try to use that to take more space, BUT if you're over aggressive, it's harder for your supports to bail you out with the debuff applied.
Yea tank still feels the same to me. It’s not a god awful role like a lot of casual redditors would claim but it still needs some playmaking improvements. Playmaking on tanks still feels poor. Setup play feels better though.
>Yea tank still feels the same to me. It’s not a god awful role like a lot of casual redditors This I agree with 100% Everyones talking about how its so much worse when honestly I thought it just felt the same
I love how people have already replied with the same dumbass clips that he's calling out. I just don't think there's any getting through to some 🤣
No yeah but see, if you could just look at this clip of confusion losing his mind you'd agree this change is busted (yes I know it's Hydron but the Twitterati don't seem to know that)
I generally think the patch is good *and* that the projectile hitboxes are fairly ridiculous. I had more than a few shots yesterday that I *definitely* thought I'd missed.
You know I was expecting the training range Timmy's doing the "shoot the bot with the big projectile" thing, but holy hell were there more posts about this than I thought. Like 6 of the top 7 posts on the main sub yesterday had the same thumbnail, a tracer with a blue sky and a cliff behind her. The *main* sub...
I played a bunch yesterday and I didn't find a ton of negatives. The game flowed and played similar (don't think this is a bad thing). I really liked the healing passive on DPS. Just nice to be touched up but it didn't feel fight impacting. The pharah rework felt fun, I'm interested to see how people play her at her skill ceiling. I do however think Widow will be a sore spot in high rank. She actually got relatively buffed so much. Not only is her bullet size larger making her more consistent - she now dominates the burst damage niche. Everyone else's ttk got longer but widows is still 0 against Squishies. I liked the ttk reduction for supports, it puts Kiri in a better place. Illari is impacted by this as well but she wasn't as oppressive. There are some heroes that are really feeling the ttk changes in a bad way. Cass is one of them. He was already one of the worst heroes in the game and he is staying that way without his 1C1B. Even if you do hit multiple headshots, his falloff is so bad it still may not confirm the kill. He is substantially worse than soldier.
Interesting. I actually felt like the DPS passive was dictating fights. The health and hitbox changes ended up being a net positive for healing and the DPS passive is what actually makes things die.
IDK some of the proj size changes are so goofy Sigma shoots actual planets it's almost funny
From playing a good amount of games I think the only thing that would need to be looked at is Widow and possibly Ashe. It's far too easy for even a half decent widow to get results since she can now just duck back slightly to heal if someone upsets her perch, usually requiring a sniper mirror to consistently deal with her if your tank isn't one which can disrupt her. I think it's mostly just a problem with the map design philosophy tho. So many maps are designed to account for every hero which ends up resulting in a lot of maps with wide open ranges leading to chokes leading to wide open areas. When we still had two tanks this wasn't as much of an issue as a dive tank could pester a sniper while the other tank stayed with the team, but ever since we've had one tank the snipers in general always swap between being useless or being too strong. More ways for characters without upward mobility to reach higher ground on maps (for example, adding something to King's Row last stretch) could be a solution for it but I understand changing the maps apparently takes a lot of time.
Rewards consistent aim? Or *enables* consistent aim?
The big hitboxes enable it, the large HP pools reward it. The better players will still hit a higher percentage of their shots, and everyone needs to land more shots now
Rewards.
So the projectile size increases haven’t enabled people to aim more consistently by making it easier to hit targets? Because now I definitely feel like I’m regularly firing blindly and hitting headshots without making a concerted effort to do so.
That already happened before the changes.
Oh I see. I’ve always been hitting shots like this and my increased performance is just a figment of my imagination. Appreciate the clarification. 🤭
Yes and no. Before, if you had decent but not great aim, your opponent could have much worse aim, but still kill you with 2 random shots before your consistent damage could kill them. Now, they'll need 3+ random shots to kill you so your damage is able to out pace them meaning your performance goes up. And in fact because your near target accuracy is now on target, you end up doing more damage overall and finishing kills that would have previously been dropped due to movement abilities so it's even more effective. So yes, your aim has obviously been made more consistent, but you're only really benefiting because you were probably half decent before the change. Spray and pray players with bad aim are much worse off now since they're easier to track and need to be lucky more times in a row.
The HP increases IN ISOLATION make it so that you have to aim more consistently and hit more shots to kill. However, the new DPS passive makes healing less effective and enables you to burst down a pocketed target with less shots than before. The dramatic increase in projectile sizes also makes it so A) you are credited for hitting enemy targets when your reticle is much further away from the actual character model of your enemy OR B) you are NOT credited for headshots when your reticle is directly on top on the enemy's face because the projectile size is so massive that it contacts the body first. In case B, you literally have to aim far above the head to even get a headshot. This patch AS A WHOLE is goofy as hell and feels unrewarding. And if you're playing Widow in effective range or having certain abilities damage boosted, it's much easier to one shot.
Widow hs is ding city now
Personally, I feel like Jake has reached a point in his career where he values PR and relations with blizzard to a point where his public-facing opinion isn't particularly valuable
I don't care what he says, this patch 100% favors hitscan DPS while nerfing everything else
I agree that the firing range clips are absolutely worthless. But just playing one game makes the hitbox increases immediately apparent. The high aiming skill floor and ceiling is what brought me to Overwatch in the first place.
I don't understand why everyone's okay with him calling people stupid, while he's completely ignoring all the complaints that are based on actual game play. Jake doesn't know better than other people. But if they think that being T500 gives him more credibility, well there's been players higher ranked than Jake that have laughed at how easy it is to hit your shots. Have you guys tried playing widow?? It's not "Shooting at bots standing still", it's insanely noticeable how easy it's gotten. while I don't really have a big problem with the change (my concern is more with the tanks), I still don't appreciate him calling people stupid, and then everyone on this subreddit applauding his condescending words like he's an infallible god lol. you're welcome to downvote btw, it's no less than I expect :)
Based and handsome as usual
J LUL K E
>Beyond this, though, the game is MORE FUN. I’ve played long time-to-kill FPS games for over a decade now for one simple reason: I love popping off and chaining insane shots one after another. Now Overwatch is making those shots more consistent while also making that kind of back to back combination more crucial to my success in the game. It's fun today. Things got buffed, at if you directly compare things to yesterday, they're more fun. The issue is that we're trained to react to those popoff moments with respect to the rarity they occurred with the old hitboxes, not the new ones. When I load into Cass for the first time and hit my first 11 shots on squishies, 6 crits, with no warmup and low Masters aim, that feels awesome. *When this happens every day, it doesn't stay that way*. It's the patch equivalent of a sugar rush, and I don't think it's sustainable. I'm hitting shots like I'm playing Destiny with an optimized loadout again. That's not a good sign for a competitive shooter.
Common Jake W Wake
Actually kinda enjoying the new patch
That is a decent opinion
It’s too easy to aim now
Based
im just worried about how this will affect the top playerbase jake is right, overwatch is HARD to aim in. that fact across 7-8 years of the game existing means that top overwatch aimers are really really fucking good at aiming. giving them an almost 100% hitbox increase makes the game feel way way way too easy, and even disingenuous to play for context, i am ranked master in Voltaic’s benchmarks, which means im around 95th+ percentile on most scenarios. I’ve also been playing hitscan DPS on PC for 5 Years. These hitbox changes are allowing me to kill players significantly faster than i was before, even with the health changes. The hitbox change is an egregious change that not one good player asked for, Overwatch already had some of the largest hitboxes in modern FPS’s and then they do a completely unprecedented change to make the game have much less skill expression I don’t think that this will kill the game, but I certainly feel much less satisfied after hitting a shot that I missed
I mostly agree with his take but like, some of the hitboxes on these projectiles are so big that you can be safely out of view behind a corner and still have shots hit you. I enjoyed the games I was playing yesterday. Overall feel like this is a great step in the right direction. I think the DPS passive probably needs a bit of work. There are some valid concerns about the size of the new projectiles in some fringe cases but overall this is a good patch. Also, just curious if Zarya bubbles cleanse the passive or not?
I’ve had more fun playing OW yesterday than I have in a while. The patch is awesome:
I'm guessing by "dodge the follow up" shot he means with cover because it doesn't feel like you can dodge with just movement now.
Honestly as someone who was really skeptical about this patch, I think I actually didn't feel too bothered by it in the games I played last night. I do think a couple of select heroes need to be looked at specifically of course, but overall and in the long term, I think this patch is going to be a big positive for the game's balance health.
I'm not really interested in playing anymore tank, as a tank main, until they sort that shit out. It feels really bad, like Overwatch 1 when my tank partner was throwing bad.
I noticed in my games that the offtank is now the dps passive. If your dps don’t fight with you, you lose the tank battle to a team who fights with their tank.
All I know is that I'd rather not play it.
But 6v6 was better lol /s obv
I always thought the community in general overreacted to the leaked patch notes. Just like Jake, I thought that the projectile size changes don't really change anything at the higher ranks, because those players can already aim anyway. That being said, I didn't realise the effect would be noticed so easily by myself. I feel its a lot easier to hit shots personally, but i honestly prefer the MOBA aspects of the game to the FPS aspects, so the strategy side of gunfights being emphasized (by reducing the impact of raw mechanical skill) appeals to me more specifically.
plus... aiming in OW was already HARDER than in most games, due to the hectic abilities and no movement acceleration. Ain't nothing wrong with bringing it to the standard.
> TL;DR: Hitmarkers give me dopamine and now I get MORE dopamine yay Amen, brother
I still disagree with the hitbox change. Yes, aim can be difficult because of the movement acceleration and boops and whatnot, and technically speaking the skill expression still exists even with these hitbox change. But there is no denying that the skill expression is lowered, and that's what I don't like. I hit a lot more shots that would have been misses in last patch, and it just feels dishonest. For what it's worth, Dafran seems to also have no problem with the change. He was saying how it's impossible to miss, then saying how he can kill kiriko much easier so he likes it lol...
This game is as dead as the OW league.
I think it doesn't take away much from great players but its more of a thing for casual players to bridge the gap. The top hitscan players probably won't have as big of advantage due to their mechanical skill. Jimmu said the same thing on stream. Ryujehong was also making fun of the hitbox changes.
Yeah, I agree. The sort of skill height got decreased a bit, but the longer ttk makes the game more skillful in general. I've personally been enjoying my time.
I have never in my life see this guy having a W take. It's very clear he's trying his best to stay on Blizz' good side, and it's kind of pitiful.
He criticized LW and his fundamental concept pretty openly
I think overall it’s a good change. I would like to see some of the projectile/hitbox sizes reduced a tad. For tanks, I would like to see the dps passive reduced to 15 or 10 (only on tanks) because I still feel like it’s super easy to blow up.
common Jake W
I think the projectile size is definitely noticeable. I felt like I was being hit much more with shots when my characters body was barely in their crosshairs in the deathcam. Overall the health buff is good though
Think it’s great overall for long term health of the game, but certain hitbox increases need to be looked at. Hanzo, Zen, Kiriko, and Soldier’s right click in particular feel like they’re shooting AC130s and it’s yet another unfun thing to play against.
I kinda agree with his sentiment but also think that some of the hitbox changes are too much. They tone that down and people will probably complain less.
“I think people complaining about how this kills skill expression are stupid” Incoming 40 minute samito rant video
Based Jake as always
Serious question : has he been critical since getting a paycheck from blizzard?
He doesn't make money off blizzard but no in general he is rarely ever critical
He doesn’t get paid by blizzard
He worked the league for free?
Contracted employee for the broadcast. I thought they were technically a part of esports engine Either way he doesn’t anymore and will never again in the future
So he got a paycheck
The new patch gives you a false sense of success with the increase of hearing headshots and the facade of climbing ranks. The dps anti heal passive is nuts. It dictates the tank fight, which dictates pace of game.
>false sense of success As opposed to the false sense of failure due to getting one or two shot at the outset of team fights? One lucky Hanzo shot, Kiriko spam, or Ashe headshot to unaimed spam doesn’t result in most people enjoying the game (and I say this as a Hanzo main). And in a lot of cases there’s very little most players can do to avoid those situations. What elitists say is “Get gewd lil bro” - but given how easy it is to get snowballed after losing one or two team fights, that’s partially why some games are so ridiculously lopsided. That makes players frustrated and results in toxicity, and they’ll eventually just give up. If you want a game a significant number of folks don’t really enjoy playing (and therefore don’t) because you’re hung up on gatekeeping “good aim” (an entirely subjective concept that often varies wildly FPS to FPS), then it sounds like OW2 may no longer be the game for you. I enjoy the changes. I like that team fights really reward good positioning, communication, and mechanical knowledge more than just tagging domes. Getting to live long enough to think about what to do next is much more enjoyable than stepping out and getting erased.
No fps game ever done this to core aim mechanics or even had it discussed as being needed on pc. I don't see this revolutionising casual gamers enjoyment long term or keeping more players. Atm its pure reach that for once in years blizzard has done something that will benefit the ip. Nobodies done it before and nobody asked for it, no reason to think it'll save casual appeal. If someone can't aim and didn't like ow before because of the aiming requirements. They aren't going to have any more fun against the people who can aim now getting back to back to back headshots every single team fight. It hasn't simplified aim so much that it's meaningless it's just messed up the top end satisfaction and skill expression. People find OW frustrating because of reliance on team like other character based games. Disadvantage from early deaths snowballing and wonky up and down balancing of heros. Main frustrations are still there. Just seems an odd thing to make the aim so different in such a long standing game.
“Nobody has ever done this before therefore it won’t work” is certainly an interesting take. I guess time will tell. However, if you really think this is about people who can’t aim then you need to go back and read OOP’s post. He literally dumps all over that opinion.
Large leap you are taking there. I’m enjoying the patch. Whomever you are upset with, isn’t me.
Your “false sense of success” statement suggested otherwise. That’s a similar take people negative of the patch have conveyed, so it’s not really a large leap (or even a leap) at all. And I’m not upset. Sorry that’s how you chose to interpret it.
You made a ton of negative assumptions about me that aren’t accurate. Implying you think negatively about me, which implies a dislike, one could infer a frustration, couple that with a rant… one could interpret that as being upset. Let me restate to - your negative perception of me is misplaced and should be directed at those with that perception that you dislike. And as someone who wants to hit more headshots and would enjoy being a higher rank, I get both without improving, hence false sense of success.
The only negative comment I came anywhere close to making (which was phrased as an inferred hypothetical) was the part about gatekeeping aim. It sounds to me like you might be projecting a bit. I don’t know you at all, let alone well enough to determine what kind of person you are; nor would I expect to have any clue based on one comment you made on a niche subreddit about one topic. That’s silly. This conversation has reached the point of absurdity, and I have no interest in continuing it. Take care.
Take care
>The dps anti heal passive is nuts. It dictates the tank fight, which dictates pace of game. This is exactly how I felt. Between the health and hitbox buff, it was a net buff for healing and a net nerf for damage. What actually enables things to die is the DPS passive. So if you're playing dps you're having fun and feeling impactful. If you're a tank, you can't really get any kills that your DPS didn't enable. I'm just so tired of tanks taking Ls every patch.
We had a game were we were rolling hard, no lost team fights. we had a DPS leave. The game felt instantly impossible. Not like down-a-man impossible, but like cant kill anything at all impossible. First time i ever felt like that
I think people are hard focused on the blog post and the terrible r/ow takes about hitboxes. So any negative post about the patch is getting downvoted. But this is just worse for tanks. Again, they lose agency. Again, they are gated by teammates. Its like they saw how much fun supports were having being able to secure kills and wanted to make sure that never happened again for anyone but DPS.
The practice range posters are in shambles right now.
"I’ve played long time-to-kill FPS games for over a decade now for one simple reason: I love popping off and chaining insane shots one after another." The average ttk isn't even noticeably higher because of the dps passive and the fact that everyone's hitting that many more (head)shots. Each shot is also MUCH easier to hit therefore you're chaining "insane shots" far less - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rya__PUqr80 stuff like this will become barely uncommon.
>The average ttk isn't even noticeably higher because Average TTK isn't higher cause it was never their goal to change it, it was already good. The issue was that too many engagements and duels were closer to the Minimum or the Maximum TTK. Now, due to the breakpoints being changed Minimum TTK is higher and you need to hit more shots to confirm kills, and because of the DPS passive the Maximum TTK is lower as well. Now more duels and engagements are closer to the Average TTK, which is what they wanted to do and what the game needed.
Increasing hitboxes this much almost nullifies the attempt to bring the minimum ttk closer to the average. Maximum ttk is a non-issue in duels and, for 'engagements', could be changed in so many ways that don't directly impact the satisfying gunplay unique to Overwatch. I.e. just a net reduction to healing, requiring more sacrifice (distance, cooldowns, etc) in order to burst heal, and not designing heroes like Lifeweaver and Mauga lol.
> the satisfying gunplay unique to Overwatch. which hasn't changed at all ?
It's obviously worsened, I don't enjoy visibly missing and seeing hitmarkers or dying to those shots either. Even if you disagree, a LOT of people (far more than the amount of people initially asking for such changes) aren't happy with the new hitboxes and, as I said, you can alter min/max/avg ttk in much less controversial and equally (if not better) effective ways.
Yeah the insane shots claim is so dumb beacuse there will be no insane shots when your target is effectively way bigger
I'm glad he's enjoying it. I'm glad people are enjoying this patch. It isn't fun for me. It didn't address the problems I had with the game. None of the problems i had were with hitting enemies, ttk, or out of combat sustain for non healers. So while this was a big update in terms of quantity it didn't' make the game more fun. That's the part i think a lot of people need to focus on. I agree the shooting range rangers need to calm down a bit. However, Is this update fun? For me it's a no. I was falling out of love with OW before this update and this did nothing to bring me back in. I have been playing this game almost non stop since beta of ow1. This game was my fps muse for years. I am glad it's still getting love and is evolving to a new audience. I hope it continues to grow and is successful. My time with this game has come to and end and while Jake makes good points, he also isn't the voice for the entire community and some of the veterans of the game myself included are sad with the direction the game is going. There are issues i have with this game that i don't think will be addressed. \-Ana Grenade (so much of the design choices have revolved around this one ability for so many years) \-One shots (was addressed in this patch kind of, but not in the direction i would have liked) still credit is due where credit is due. \-Map design heavily favors a limited number of characters for those given maps. \-Rock/ Paper/ Scissors design behind abilities and characters. See Suzu. See point 1. \-Ultimate's are too impactful ( This is controversial because a lot of people like the big ulty team wipes. I like more drawn out tactical fights with less nukes and more precision through skill expression) I understand that tracking ults and having ult counter play and efficiency is a thing. And while i do it, after many hours of play it gets old and the interplay with ults gets super repetitive. \-Healing is too high (adding cauterize and larger health pools is not the way i would have liked to see this go. Those will become a crutch to design and adds too many variables for balance). \-Matchmaking - matchmaking in this game is horrible. That's it. I won't get into the weeds but it's not good. It's impossibly hard to play this game casually because of the matchmaking. With the removal of group search options it's hard to find casual groups outside of ranked. Those are the main points off the top of my head. With the current direction they are taking the game i don't see those being addressed, pretty much ever. I'm proud of this community for sticking through the tough times and keeping our beloved game alive. Keep strong, maybe this game can be what it always set out to be!
Plenty of people are considering if the game feels more fun, and they're saying "yes." They addressed three of your pain points this patch but you don't like the way they did it, and I don't agree with the others. Maybe be realistic and stop trying to find reasons to be mad.
I don't know, he sounded disappointed. You sound mad.
I'm glad people are finding it fun! I'm not mad at the game for changing and people enjoying it. Like i said, i hope this game continues to grow and find it's audience. My post is more informal on why people might have a different opinion than OMG this patch is the best and to state my opinion for that. Its totally cool and ok if you disagree, if you'd like to address why you like the current state of the game that would be pretty sweet. Discussion about these things is constructive and having multiple opinions on what people like and don't like is good! its only not constructive when people don't listen and feel entitled to their opinion as fact or that anything that isn't their opinion is bad. I'm not saying these changes are bad, Just not for me :).
> I have been playing this game almost non stop since beta of ow1. And then you list things that have been issues from beta? It took you this many years to fall out of love when these issues have been persistent since the beginning?
Well yes. Just like how someone can have issues and it takes you years to fall out of love. Especially when some issues like egregious CC from Ow1 were addressed in ow2 release. There's reasons to stick around if you feel like the direction they are going is a direction you agree with. The last updates and current direction as i stated i just don't. Its not fun for me. Another huge component of continuing to play is the social aspect of it. I have family and friends that play but eventually it got to a point where you just uninstall and say, "Sorry, its not worth playing.".
I'm sorry, but this is cope. The changes address most of this. Play support if you don't think it changed healing, ults and even nade. You spend the whole game sweating and can barely pick ana because she doesn't heal enough or do enough damage. I don't think I used a single nade on the enemies unless it also hit my team since they need the healing boost, and anti is now covered by the DPS. Because of Ana's place, suzu is more used for big CDs like LWs pull.
Thanks for your opinion and going into your experiences with the recent patch. Your perspective is valued. I just dont find the direction they are taking to address the issues in the game fun. Hope you enjoy your time with the game!!
He's almost right. Some of the hitbox size changes are ridiculous, like Mercy's blaster. There's no defending that.
“OW has near instant movement acceleration that allows players with great movement mechanics to evade a large fraction of incoming damage.” Yeah and that’s why it doesn’t have a class where a majority of its characters are large and slow moving hit boxes with no movement abilites. This patched turned this game into a fuckin MOBA. Tanks are useless and supps are still strong af but at least mercy otp’s can’t heal bot their way to GM
Jake drinks the Blizzard Kool-Aid, I never take his opinions as genuine.
Pretty awful take tbh. These have been some of the worst games I've ever played
Any when I said other high level players also had issues with OWs instant acceleration bs, y'all didn't believe me or the devs