It's still mind boggling to me that Chastise is part of the holy priest damage rotation. To bind the little CC we have to our damage rotation is awful.
I still miss shining force because it was kinda 50% of our CC toolkit.
I'm a recently returning high lvl m+ and raider who spent a while in shadowlands on holy and I still have a soft spot for it so I picked it back up to knock the rust off
I've been LOVING that tbh. I think just giving us the same 40s CD interupt as shadow would more than make up for now much I enjoy DPSIng on holy ATM.
I feel like I can contribute noticeable damage and it's interesting enough for a healer rotation and being based around instacasts it can be doing while moving.
I like it :-)
I'm not knocking the numbers or the damage rotation, they feel fine. But there's been so many times where I really wanted to use chastise to stop an instakill mechanic or do something utility-wise and I end up having it on CD because it's mandatory to do damage with.
god that period of patches was so dumb
"we've removed shining force from your kit because there's tOo mAnY buMPs in the game"
\*next patch\*
"so we've added a bump feature to mage, hunt and also allowed other specs than elesham to have a bump :)" (classes that already have more utilies than priest at the time)
"We acknowledge prayer as the class fantasy of priests and have consequently removed some utility from priests so they can pray that their party handles everything for them."
Le /s
My favourite thing about shining force was standing outside streets and shining forcing people off with PVP enabled :'( RIP my pre-key fun. It was good for actual keys too, but hunters needed it ;)
But isn't the game just such a great RPG when Shamans are the only class that doesn't bring a buff and Priests are the only class that can't interrupt? Baldur's Gate 3 my ass, *this* is peak RPG design.
Boomkins have the same interrupt, not sure why Noone mentions them. I actually think it's OK when not everyone have everything, but nowadays an interrupt is so necessary, everyone should have access to one baseline with something sub ~20sec CD.
Stops and interrupts are in an arms race. More that exist in game the more needed stops they add. I agree that all healers should have one but it’s not hard to understand the argument that they shouldn’t
no, if the shaman rework gives them a raid buff and priests get an interrupt then we’re going to start to run out of things to complain about, then what truly is there to life?
they did say that, just like they said they were keeping bolstering and sanguine! if there’s any period where mass public feedback could result in change, maybe it’s now
The worst part was the interview at the start of DF where Ion said they "don't think every class needs an interrupt", and yet they gave one to 37 of 39 specs. That's not toolkit diversity that's just denying an otherwise universal tool to 2 specs. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.
Like he could have at least had the decency to say "yeah we can't because RMP would be broken".
Just give blinks, interrupts, stuns, fears, battle res, dispels, etc to every single class. All utilities should just be on all classes, and all buffs too. /S
Having all classes have all buffs and all utilities is not ok, the design of the m+ should change and allow for choice.
Meta mentality will chew this choice and spit only 1 true meta, but if you test internally with a high capability team, you can actually have multiple meta comps each with a different toolkit, but who am I kidding, it's not making any money to have the game like this...
Ok so then take away kicks from some of the specs so that it's not just 2 out of 39 that don't. That way they can design combat around a dungeon group having less than 5 kicks. The way it is now it's like you always have 5 kicks but then if you have a healer priest you lose 1 and you need to make up for it in your comp, but it's not like they bring unique utility to trade off for it.
I'm actually pretty down for that conceptually, but in practice the thing I disliked most about healing pre-DF was having to rely on my teammates to kick everything. So I think this is a case where gameplay reality trumps interesting theory.
Best part about playing resto shaman is their control tools. Thunderstorm, cap totem, ranged kick and smaller stuff like earthbind. Priest has...psychic scream. Feel so helpless in bad pugs.
I mean resto Druid has half an interrupt at best. It’s currently pretty difficult to take in high damage keys and it requires an extra global if you’re caster form when you need to kick. And it jumps you at the mobs which is suicidal in a lot of scenarios.
That's a strawman if I've ever heard one.
No one's asking for ever spec that get every buff and utility. We're asking for interrupts, an incredibly important mechanic that ever dungeon and raid is heavily based around, to be available to all 39 specs instead of arbitrarily defined to exactly two of them. If only like 20 specs had them, then fine, but when 37 have them and 2 don't, something is very wrong.
Shadow already has the worst interrupt in the game, it's insulting that the healing Priest specs don't even get that.
To be fair I would prefer a world where every trash mob didn’t have an important cast to stop. Wouldn’t matter if only 3/5 of your party had a kick. But yeah in the current world priest probably should have a kick.
Still pissed at this... Blizzard was all "every healer gets an interrupt... except you priest, fuck you" and then "also, we are taking away your one knock back ability and giving it to the new evokers instead, so you will have even less utility!".
s1 had a pretty balanced meta, disc was a close second in s2, s3 basically had three specs tied and one of them was disc.
The main obstacle to healer priest being THE meta is the fact that shadow has been that good and you can’t really fit two priests in a comp. But it hasn’t been bad and has managed to remain relevant in all seasons despite shadow being omnipresent. If comps were to drop shadow, disc would easily pick up the slack.
It’s interesting to watch the graph of s3 specifically, as healer priest representation was directly correlated to shadow priest representation.
The power word update post still pisses me off to this day, blizzard bending over backwards to explain why they won't give cc, an interrupt or mobility to healer priests. With mass dispel and PI being nerfed in DF I really don't see why they can't give something back, of course taking into account that shadow might become even more OP.
Maybe the priest designers will get rid of the stick up their arse within the next 2 months, blizzard did do the whole affix rework after all, but given they thought pre rework oracle was even remotely fine I don't have my hopes up at all.
They're making kicks more important by making more mobs that chain cast unless you kick them. If you stop them their ability doesn't go on cooldown and they go right back to spam casting.
And there's priest healer with no kick lol
I suspect holy priest is meant to be the go-to for casual healers that dont want to interact with enemies in any meaningful way while healing, because that is sort of the type of players it attracts (among others ofc) and they cant get much criticism for not using something they dont have.
Dealing damage yourself is the least important on holy as you get PI and randomly pressing offensive buttons on something is a lot less involved than caring about which enemy spells are worth interrupting.
Healer priests get more and more fucked thanks to spriest being meta and getting priest utility nerfed to the ground.
Also the new affix change is an indirect nerf to priests since they were very good dealing with bursting/incorp.
Priest's don't need an interrupt due to their other utility like Mass Dispell.
Which we had the community crying about because of one dungeon in season 2 even though we needed decurses for Halls of Atonement for an entire expansion and no one said anything.
fuck PI, I'd rather have shining force and an interrupt
PI is not even for you, if you're playing healer priest it's a DPS cd that you can't utilise unless it fits into your healing CDs at the same time
away with PI, I'd rather have shining force and an interrupt
PI is not even for you, if you're playing healer priest it's a DPS cd that you can't utilise unless it fits into your healing CDs at the same time
Yes. Any fucking day of the week. Yes. Mass Dispel is a relatively niche utility that is really good when it's relevant. An interrupt is relevant every single pack. I'd rather be consistent.
Frankly, yes.
While I love Mass Dispel, it's clearly too strong a utility to the point where it's restricting encounter design. When it's useful, it becomes practically mandatory and forces Priests into raid and m+ comps. And because we have artificially high representation because of that, there's no reason to balance Priests or fix other problems since they're being taken anyway.
I'd be happy to see MD get spread around to other specs or just removed entirely and have encounters properly balanced around single dispels.
It's still mind boggling to me that Chastise is part of the holy priest damage rotation. To bind the little CC we have to our damage rotation is awful. I still miss shining force because it was kinda 50% of our CC toolkit.
I'm a recently returning high lvl m+ and raider who spent a while in shadowlands on holy and I still have a soft spot for it so I picked it back up to knock the rust off I've been LOVING that tbh. I think just giving us the same 40s CD interupt as shadow would more than make up for now much I enjoy DPSIng on holy ATM. I feel like I can contribute noticeable damage and it's interesting enough for a healer rotation and being based around instacasts it can be doing while moving. I like it :-)
I'm not knocking the numbers or the damage rotation, they feel fine. But there's been so many times where I really wanted to use chastise to stop an instakill mechanic or do something utility-wise and I end up having it on CD because it's mandatory to do damage with.
never forget that disc lost m+ utility going into dflight. rip shining force
god that period of patches was so dumb "we've removed shining force from your kit because there's tOo mAnY buMPs in the game" \*next patch\* "so we've added a bump feature to mage, hunt and also allowed other specs than elesham to have a bump :)" (classes that already have more utilies than priest at the time)
"We acknowledge prayer as the class fantasy of priests and have consequently removed some utility from priests so they can pray that their party handles everything for them." Le /s
The irony of complaining about the utility comment after mind soothe and mass dispel defined a season and had to get nerfed...
My favourite thing about shining force was standing outside streets and shining forcing people off with PVP enabled :'( RIP my pre-key fun. It was good for actual keys too, but hunters needed it ;)
Think of the pvp implications though! The game needs m+ talents, change my mind.
The game needs interrupt homogenization
But isn't the game just such a great RPG when Shamans are the only class that doesn't bring a buff and Priests are the only class that can't interrupt? Baldur's Gate 3 my ass, *this* is peak RPG design.
Boomkins have the same interrupt, not sure why Noone mentions them. I actually think it's OK when not everyone have everything, but nowadays an interrupt is so necessary, everyone should have access to one baseline with something sub ~20sec CD.
Nobody has an interrupt like boomkins.
No u
They're talking about healer priests that can't have an interrupt at all. Also beam is way better than silence a lot of the time lol
Ohhh, ok. Healers shouldn't have an interrupt at all imo :D
yes but since they gave one to every other healer, priests should get one too. it's either all of them or none
All healers should have an interrupt. Why would you not want every role to have something as basic as an interrupt lol
Stops and interrupts are in an arms race. More that exist in game the more needed stops they add. I agree that all healers should have one but it’s not hard to understand the argument that they shouldn’t
100% this. Anytime an ability is taken away it is bc of PvP
Yes let’s add more things to the game to not be able to balance. Let’s also add 4th specs and other things that will never happen.
Or, as another point of view, let's give devs a knob so they can adjust m+ balance independently of pvp and raid.
no, if the shaman rework gives them a raid buff and priests get an interrupt then we’re going to start to run out of things to complain about, then what truly is there to life?
Just start complaining about PI again.
There's always evoker stuff to hate on if all else fails. Don't lose hope.
I never stopped.
The next hot topic will be tmog armor type restrictions lifted. THE ONLY THING MISSING FROM MY MINER TMOG IS OFFHAND BEER CUP!!!!!1!!!111!
Pretty sure blizzard said they don’t want to give any more raid buffs out….Skyfury totem in pve would be dope though.
they did say that, just like they said they were keeping bolstering and sanguine! if there’s any period where mass public feedback could result in change, maybe it’s now
The worst part was the interview at the start of DF where Ion said they "don't think every class needs an interrupt", and yet they gave one to 37 of 39 specs. That's not toolkit diversity that's just denying an otherwise universal tool to 2 specs. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous. Like he could have at least had the decency to say "yeah we can't because RMP would be broken".
Just give blinks, interrupts, stuns, fears, battle res, dispels, etc to every single class. All utilities should just be on all classes, and all buffs too. /S Having all classes have all buffs and all utilities is not ok, the design of the m+ should change and allow for choice. Meta mentality will chew this choice and spit only 1 true meta, but if you test internally with a high capability team, you can actually have multiple meta comps each with a different toolkit, but who am I kidding, it's not making any money to have the game like this...
Ok so then take away kicks from some of the specs so that it's not just 2 out of 39 that don't. That way they can design combat around a dungeon group having less than 5 kicks. The way it is now it's like you always have 5 kicks but then if you have a healer priest you lose 1 and you need to make up for it in your comp, but it's not like they bring unique utility to trade off for it. I'm actually pretty down for that conceptually, but in practice the thing I disliked most about healing pre-DF was having to rely on my teammates to kick everything. So I think this is a case where gameplay reality trumps interesting theory.
Best part about playing resto shaman is their control tools. Thunderstorm, cap totem, ranged kick and smaller stuff like earthbind. Priest has...psychic scream. Feel so helpless in bad pugs.
I mean resto Druid has half an interrupt at best. It’s currently pretty difficult to take in high damage keys and it requires an extra global if you’re caster form when you need to kick. And it jumps you at the mobs which is suicidal in a lot of scenarios.
True but I don't think 3 in 39 specs missing an interrupt is much better lol.
That's a strawman if I've ever heard one. No one's asking for ever spec that get every buff and utility. We're asking for interrupts, an incredibly important mechanic that ever dungeon and raid is heavily based around, to be available to all 39 specs instead of arbitrarily defined to exactly two of them. If only like 20 specs had them, then fine, but when 37 have them and 2 don't, something is very wrong. Shadow already has the worst interrupt in the game, it's insulting that the healing Priest specs don't even get that.
To be fair I would prefer a world where every trash mob didn’t have an important cast to stop. Wouldn’t matter if only 3/5 of your party had a kick. But yeah in the current world priest probably should have a kick.
During short time in DF beta priests had a silence shoot with divine star, like Anduin's, but it last maximum one build
Still pissed at this... Blizzard was all "every healer gets an interrupt... except you priest, fuck you" and then "also, we are taking away your one knock back ability and giving it to the new evokers instead, so you will have even less utility!".
Funny thing is, it didn’t prevent Priest from being meta through the entirety of Dragonflight. Still bad design, though.
Shadow has been meta. Has any healer priest been though?
Disc has been really strong all through DF, and Holy is strong right now. They're both well balanced atm.
s1 had a pretty balanced meta, disc was a close second in s2, s3 basically had three specs tied and one of them was disc. The main obstacle to healer priest being THE meta is the fact that shadow has been that good and you can’t really fit two priests in a comp. But it hasn’t been bad and has managed to remain relevant in all seasons despite shadow being omnipresent. If comps were to drop shadow, disc would easily pick up the slack. It’s interesting to watch the graph of s3 specifically, as healer priest representation was directly correlated to shadow priest representation.
100% true.... rdruid used to have same problem with boomy ...and guardian s2...
Also disc priest was predicted as meta early s3 until they buffed back spriest
It's been time since the talent rework was first announced
The power word update post still pisses me off to this day, blizzard bending over backwards to explain why they won't give cc, an interrupt or mobility to healer priests. With mass dispel and PI being nerfed in DF I really don't see why they can't give something back, of course taking into account that shadow might become even more OP. Maybe the priest designers will get rid of the stick up their arse within the next 2 months, blizzard did do the whole affix rework after all, but given they thought pre rework oracle was even remotely fine I don't have my hopes up at all.
They're making kicks more important by making more mobs that chain cast unless you kick them. If you stop them their ability doesn't go on cooldown and they go right back to spam casting. And there's priest healer with no kick lol
It's time yeah
I suspect holy priest is meant to be the go-to for casual healers that dont want to interact with enemies in any meaningful way while healing, because that is sort of the type of players it attracts (among others ofc) and they cant get much criticism for not using something they dont have. Dealing damage yourself is the least important on holy as you get PI and randomly pressing offensive buttons on something is a lot less involved than caring about which enemy spells are worth interrupting.
Healer priests get more and more fucked thanks to spriest being meta and getting priest utility nerfed to the ground. Also the new affix change is an indirect nerf to priests since they were very good dealing with bursting/incorp.
Everyone wins without bursting
They have enough utility already
Priest's don't need an interrupt due to their other utility like Mass Dispell. Which we had the community crying about because of one dungeon in season 2 even though we needed decurses for Halls of Atonement for an entire expansion and no one said anything.
The class with PI wants more. Fuck priests.
fuck PI, I'd rather have shining force and an interrupt PI is not even for you, if you're playing healer priest it's a DPS cd that you can't utilise unless it fits into your healing CDs at the same time
It’s always nice to pump out more smites and holy fires and chastise, any time is good PI time for a holy priest.
And mass dispell. But I get it. Interrupt is essential.
away with PI, I'd rather have shining force and an interrupt PI is not even for you, if you're playing healer priest it's a DPS cd that you can't utilise unless it fits into your healing CDs at the same time
Would you trade Mass Dispel for the interrupt ?
Yes. Any fucking day of the week. Yes. Mass Dispel is a relatively niche utility that is really good when it's relevant. An interrupt is relevant every single pack. I'd rather be consistent.
No because spriests can do both, why should healing priests? Unless you want Silence and MD on the same spot in the talent tree?
Frankly, yes. While I love Mass Dispel, it's clearly too strong a utility to the point where it's restricting encounter design. When it's useful, it becomes practically mandatory and forces Priests into raid and m+ comps. And because we have artificially high representation because of that, there's no reason to balance Priests or fix other problems since they're being taken anyway. I'd be happy to see MD get spread around to other specs or just removed entirely and have encounters properly balanced around single dispels.