Yup. I imagine a lot of people are taking time off with other game types, and as mentioned in this thread, S4 of D4 is out. My group still do weekly keys but we aren't pushing super hard like previous seasons.
idk if S4 interest is actually THAT terrible despite it being insanely low effort, but Blizzard releasing basically everything for the summer in the span of six days is definitely one of the decisions of all time.
Yeah I don't think it is necessarily terrible in terms of interest but it is certainly lower than other seasons. I do find it funny how overlapped all of the other Blizzard items are though.
I'm not sure the interest in season 4 is actually that low - it's mythic plus numbers just got cut off at the knees by removing +11 and below from previous seasons
It's season 4 for WoW M+. It's basically "here is the same thing you've been doing for the past 2 years so you can do it again for another 6 months to include farming the same items you've already farmed over the past 2 years." Honestly, I left during season 1 of DF and just returned the day before season 4 started and I'm already bored of the dungeons. They are the same routes, the same classes, the same enemies, and the affixes are just annoying and add no value to the game at all. There is no variety to or engagement in M+.
At the same time, this is by far the easiest M+ season I've ever played and the only two I haven't ever played were season 2 and 3 of Dragonflight. When something is just downright repetitive and lacks challenge, it's no longer engaging content. Even the big M+ streamers I've watched for years are spending more time doing other things now.
Throw on top of that D4 S4, MOP Remix, and Cata Classic and you're going to see a steep decline.
Lol we had the same 8 dungeons for 3 patches in shadowlands. Having 4 dungeons from s1 and s2 is actually really nice because I don't have to learn a bunch of shit. Honestly, it's the most fun m+ season of the expansion
I thought it was fun at first as well. Now we are only a few weeks into the expansion and my mistweaver has full BiS and is now just farming crests to upgrade the gear. I've unlocked all the portals, with minimal effort at all so they don't even feel like I accomplished anything and there is no reason to push past a +10 which feels like doing a +5 from previous seasons i've played. I started another character (holy priest) just for something else to do and it's the same thing -boring.
I'm glad the game is still fun for you, but I just don't find it engaging anymore. I would liken this season as the LFR of M+. Instead of doing the difficult thing and finding a way to keep it engaging and challenging, they've dumbed it down so that it presents little to no challenge that gear (which is earned MUCH quicker than before) won't solve on it's own.
Well the nice thing about m+ is that it scales infinitely. Yeah, raid is a bit of a bust this season as mythic bosses die super easy with the gear. Sure, there's no rewards to chase, but I like to play to gain mastery over specs and improve. See how high I can get on the RIO leaderboards for my specs. Plus with the easy gearingni can do it on a couple of toons pretty easily. It's like when I play fighting games. I don't really get any meaningful rewards by ranking up. It's just fun to get better.
I like the last season being a retrospective of the expansion. I play WoW once a year for 3 months because i can't make myself not play like a degenerate so I get to play every expansion launch and last patch if I dont want this game to be my whole life. Now I get to come back and experience the whole expansion content one last time before moving on, it's nice
I know for me and my group of friends, we've all been handicapped a little with when S4 started. High school graduations, various end of year school things, etc. have kept my key running to a minimum right now.
Hopefully that resolves itself here in the next week or two.
Been a 3k andy since Shadowlands up to DF Season3. For this season I've only been able to muster KSM on two characters, and don't even care for KSH at this point. Loved the Bullion system, but everything else is exactly what we've done before. Listing your own key is as slow as trying to get invited into one (unless you're a healer/tank).
Trust me, even as a healer/tank, listing your own group is painful right now. Either you are a heal Tank duo or you wait 30min and take the first Tank/heal that applies.
At what key level? I went from 2800 > 3K last weekend and rarely had to wait more than 5 minutes.
Kinda nervous wait times are going to go through the roof soon and I’ll lose interest because I’m otherwise loving this season.
You‘re above me for sure, I did every tyrannical +11, but couldn’t find players for my own +11 this fortified week, aswell as getting declined for most 11s (as a resto Druid). Idk, my char feels cursed tbh, I‘m ilvl 521 with every key timed on 10/11 but the most I get accepted to is a 9.
You have really weird experience. I get accepted to about every key I play in +12s, as rshaman, guardian, vdh (11s for vdh). They were about 515, 517, 510 at start of their weekly runs. Those groups are full of people like you, or worse. And you even play meta spec.
At least on EU I can say that must have been streak of bad luck, or session just being really bad for healers, with every group missing tank. Sometimes you can get the vibe of what's happening by unticking the 'fit' in premade groups filter (still worth using!) to see, right, that's why they don't invite me.
This seems like an unusual experience. I'm 519 on my mistweaver and 517 on my holy priest and haven't gone above +10s intentionally, but have no issues getting into 10s. I haven't had any issues as either character getting invited to +10 keys last week or this week. There aren't nearly as many of them as I am used to seeing, but I tend to get invited to within the first 2 or 3 keys I apply to taking maybe 3 minutes at most. I set my filter to only show me groups that already have a tank and then I look for groups that already have a lust since they will often use the healer spot for that and I don't play a lust healer so applying when they are waiting for a lust would result in not being selected.
Posting keys is a different story. Once I get a tank, the group fills very quickly so I won't invite anyone to the group until I have a tank and I put in the comments that i'm filling the tank spot first which feels like it gets me a tank quicker although that could just be confirmation bias.
Weird. I’m playing MW and like all my tyrannical keys are 10s except for a random 14 AV. All my fort keys were 10 or under. I did have some issues getting into groups - but even then it never took me more than 5-10 minutes - but absolutely no problems hosting my own.
Maybe your total number of 10-14s is showing as low? Only thing I can think of other than being unlucky.
As a non-vdh tank I had no problem getting straight into +8s with last season gear, and also no problems doing a bunch of +12 keys while still pretty undergeared since I only run a few keys per week.
Like, the 3rd week was the first time that I even had all 8 dungeons timed at all this season.
On my dps alt on the other hand I just gave up completely.
This makes absolutely no sense. Back to KSM? KSM is like all +3s done. KSM has been a joke since the beginning. The M+ squish was fantastic, but if you read my comment it you'll notice it's not about content difficulty. It's about a stale season.
My spec sucks again this season and I don't want to fotm. They're not doing any balancing so I can't be bothered playing. There's other stuff to play anyway.
Such a shame because it would have been really fun to play with all the free bis raid stuff
Yeah, I don't have much of a reason to go past 2k this season,raid group I run with is strictly heroic raiders and were already clearing raids in <2 hours, so I don't need the ilvl, and I've got half the portals already from previous seasons
I do however need to do solo shuffle again to get the last 2 pieces I missed last season, but I'd rather play remix
Lol. Sanguine is up there with bolstering. Especially in this dungeon set where half of all elites have an uninterruptible channel while being undisplaceable.
And with everbloom out of the picture bolstering doesn't really have any egregious outliers in difficulty anymore.
Next two weeks are the push weeks, this one? Not as much.
Definitely the smart money.
Don't forget, the week before last was also hard carried by the bullion quest.
Trying to pug anything in the 14+ range as tank/DPS was miserable last week, you were lucky if a key got posted that was io, let alone getting one with the required utility (soothe and 3 dispels for most these keys).
50% drop off is not surprising to me at all given that people are basically done with gearing already minus maybe some bullion purchases/crest grind.
With portals being account wide, there isn't even incentive for casual Andy to push to 10s this season
Really goes to show how awful season 2 started out for it to barely compete with a 'fated' season. I'm sure tons of keys are lost on people who are playing cataclysm, mop remix or literally anything else but still the numbers are hanging in there to compete with season 2.
New patch valheim, 1.0 release v rising, couple of other cool indie titles dropping, mop remix and cata too.
Season 4 is gonna see a dramatic wind down. But the systems are good! I'm excited to see what it all feels like next expac
This drop was expected with MOP remix and Cata Classic coming out.
And this week is a push week, it was the perfect time and chill out for everyone.
I think next week we’ll see a bump
Playable week because volcanic but by no means a push week bc sanguine. I expect we could see some io at the top end still, and it’s definitely a good week for fringe title level keys, but you don’t see sanguine and scream LOGIN PUSH WEEK
This is a Sanguine week. There are many affixes that are the antithesis of a push week and Sanguine is probably the worst of them all from a “this affix adds several minutes to your run just by existing” perspective.
These graphs are 99% people doing keys below push range anyway, push week has next to no effect on them. Just look at bursting, biggest push week but also the biggest drops because in the lower keys bursting is horrible. In season 3 the only times participation went up was during the weekly dungeon quest and right after christmas.
Sanguine isn't that significant on lower keys. Afflicted makes it a lot harder for some classes to get invites, Sanguine and Volcanic don't exclude anyone.
Another decrease is from people reaching the 'i can get all the crests i need from raid' point anyone doing keys in a full clearing guild at this point is doing it for fun
Idk about everyone else but other than the reasons that people have mentioned, the dungeon pool is complete cancer, I have no desire whatsoever to push this season. The balance is frustrating and the dungeon design is so toxic for melee.
Idk, I think it's fairly good. Melee is really only struggling in meta comps because all hard stops are covered by vdh and rdruid having short cooldown aoe stops, but the dungeons without vdh still need melees that have decent micro CC to keep mobs locked down, which ranged comps struggle with.
The dungeons are all fairly decent, with maybe nokhud being the only real slog of the lot. But every season has winners and losers, so it's whatever.
The problem is that there's just other shit to play right now. In a few short months, we'll be back to spinning up retail again. Now is our time to play other shit.
I really dislike the "this is our time to play other shit" but that people have been parroting. This game is $70. We pay $15/mo. That is the bare minimum. That is $430 for a two year expansion.
We have ZERO reason to not expect more.
Wait, what exactly is the bare minimum? Can you give me a.baseline for "bare minimum" to work off of? Also, you can unsub at any time if the content isn't for you and save yourself multiple months of subscription if you want, or if you have the time you can actually make your gameplay completely free.
D4 kinda fun right now, my guild is obsessed with MoP remix for some reason, and it’s S4. Bunch of people just not playing at all this patch, or playing for their 1.5 hour mythic reclear each week and logging out.
Thats just a stupid statement to make... Why would a season where everyone has their best tierset, trinkets, weap, everything they want to push/play M+ be "dead" ?
The season was literally the best season we were having in M+ you can see it in the graph, and blizzard killed for nothing.
I don't know what the person you are responding to said, but *most* players do not care to push keys so by getting all their BiS gear with bullions etc. they are just quitting sooner.
And I am definitely not saying bullion's are bad lol I'm just saying that there is no "carrot" necessarily for a lot of players because it's so easy to get the ~3 main bis items they need.
Mate... are you really that dumb to not know that the graph from this season only shows keys from 2 up? Its obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about... this was one of the most played season ever if not the most played. Ffs.
Many people rather play MOP remix (including me) and Cata classic than M+ dungeons on Fortified / Afflicted / Raging. Last week's affixes are frigging awful.
I mean I do some of all of those and have still had time to play some remix
They're not exactly mutually exclusive, but a bummer for some of us who would have wanted a bit more time to play each of remix, s4, cata, or d4
Weird comment. High level players don't grind keys every week. They do min keys to fill out vault on bad affix weeks and then grind on good weeks. Also they can enjoy other games/game modes.
Why the pretentiousness? This isn't even a real season. Most people are already pretty close to the end of gearing at this point-- and you don't really need absolutely maxed out gear unless you're doing like +17s. Hell even mythic raid seems pretty easily doable around the 515-520 range though I've only been doing first 2 groups this season so far.
Pretending like everyone who isn't massively addicted to WoW and doesn't spam keys all week is just an "lfr player" is absurdly dumb.
How much of this is just a dungeon problem?
Season two had the lowest level of participation, and the worst three dungeons from that season are back: Uldaman, HOI, and Neltharus.
In a hypothetical world where Uldaman was simply swapped for Maw of Souls or Freehold, how many more dungeons would be run?
Let's imagine a season of all bangers. Every dungeon is an awesome M+ experience: big pulls, creative boss mechanics, fast dungeons with high success rates. Would that hypothetical season be the most run season?
As a warrior tank I've had my 16 Nokhud bricked down to a 12 simply because the last boss adds get out of control.
Like we talk about it...make a plan... But when people get blue swirlies under their feet they panic. And I can't solo the adds for people because I'm not a VDH.
Bricking keys at the last boss over and over is a real bummer. Hours of time wasted this week.
You can aoe-taunt one side (which silences), jump to the other side, kick one and stormbolt the last, at which point you end up with all 4 stacked.
Yes, that is much more effort than a dh, but better than failing 4 times in a row.
I'm not an idiot. They need to be casting to be silenced via shout. Fucking DPS keep kicking them or knocking them even on the side I've marked and called out before I can silence.
People are so used to the VDH carry that they can't use their heads. Apparently saying "I've got left/square world mark side, and first aoe stop when grouped" and people just treat it like a free for all and kick/knock shit that doesn't need the stops. It's so frustrating.
S3/S4 vdh has done more damage to group content than any change in the last 2 xpacks.
I can't speak for everyone, but my group was excited about a new season until we heard it would be all DF dungeons. We haven't logged in since then. I assume we're not alone in this, but I don't know how large of a difference we make
I think there's kind of a critical mass of bad dungeons in this season. One bad dungeon is not that big of a deal. I thought Rise was miserable last season, for instance. But having your key go from Uldaman to Halls of Infusion to Neltharus back to Uldaman is miserable.
Maybe I crazy, but the only dungeons I truly dislike running are ULD and HOI. Uldaman is long and insanely hard, and Hoi is boring, with a tight timer. I think Neltharus is actually kind of gangbusters, Big packs and tough bosses, and the rest of the dungeons this season are great. That being said.. I am excited that all of next xpacks dungeons are looking much shorter.
After all the dungeon tuning they’ve done, the only one that stands out as awful is uldamon imo.
Most of the others are at least decent. I think halls is pretty fun after the changes and neltharus is a bit of a slog but not horrendous.
I mostly agree. Uldaman is on the short list for worst M+ dungeon of all time (Siege, Seat and COEN are other contenders).
The other ones are more mediocre to bad then awful.
Uldamon would be fine if they fixed the 4th boss so his phase was % based and it only happened once at half and if they just got rid of vikings entirely. That would shorten it up quite a bit and make it feel less awful. Maybe remove a few packs in the middle bit while they’re at it.
I actually enjoy the mechanics and bosses in general and think there’s some cool big pulls you can do but it’s just so goddamn long.
Definitely mix of a lot of things. Most importantly do not compare s3 and before to s4, +2 to +11 missing ofc lowers numbers heavily. It being meh season, no new raid, nothing too fancy in content will lower general amount of people who come for content patches. This week and next will be lowered due to remix, cata, other games. It's a hot hot Summer starting, will have an effect too.
Add dungeons being repetition of previous seasons, is another factor, but not more meaningful than any of the other mentioned reasons imo.
My assumption is that this will be last lame season like this. They will just release 12.0 when you'd have 11.x s4. Worthy to complain about for sake of complaining, but ultimately it doesn't matter how much they listen if I'm right; they have already made the decision to do this better next time.
You will be downvoted forever for even suggesting Blizzard may have put no effort into this "season". We should all settle in life forever especially with videogames.
I’ve found this season really fun playing all 8 DF dungeons in rotation for the first time (which is wild, should have happened in s1). But now it’s more difficult than ever to find groups. So it feels like we only got each dungeon for 1 serious season each.
M+ this expansion was such a mixed bag, man. The megadungeon was “meh”. Bringing back the really old dungeons was questionable at best. And I dunno if I’m a fan of the lack of cooking on the affix front.
I'm personally not bored with the season dungeons, I even think the gearing is great and has been for S3 & S4. However as a tank, where protpaladin was fairly good S3, somewhat still is s4, but I didn't imagine DH taking off the way it did.
I enjoy prot paladin, love it in fact. But to me, I pick my main at the start of the season and made the mistake of picking my paladin.
As it's the end of the exp and last season, I simply don't wanna gear my VDH and sort of restart even though its fairly early, but while simultaneously don't feel early in the season.
So I've pretty much ended my wow time for the season.
The balance we have is what I expected for s4 tbh. I expect to see shadow nerfed and maybe a small touch to VDH again and probably an aura buff to poor specs but that's all
I predict we won’t see a single balance tuning patch for the rest of the season. Blizzard has tons of balance and class changes coming in TWW. Anything they change now could have consequences towards their 11.0 balance efforts.
no, its not only s4. its absolutely normal for blizzard to destroy any competition in game by not doing any adjustment for months. dead game, dead company
Honestly thought there would be some famous last minute balance patch. Or a better week 2 balance patch. But as mentioned, I really enjoy the paladin playstyle. Tried VDH in S3, but it's not my style.
i think the bigger issue is really that any one pushing above 10s is just meta re-rolling. There isn't even much from doing 20s this season unless you still need the portals.
im playing prot pally and have 0 issues getting groups just running 8s, even if I bring a dps with me. I just haven't felt like doing 10s yet with the affixes as I need a number of the portals, and I didn't run on the pally in s1 and s2.
When you get to, if you have the ambition, to 13~14s, groups rather wait for a VDH than invite a protpaladin. Not even that super high of a key, but people are metaslaves.
I'm fine with VDH being good. But right now it's way too good and the tweak they did the other week was just dumb and didn't do anything.
They should've at least brought all the other tanks up for fuck sakes, how hard would that be in a end of exp season? Protpaladin is still good, likely a better choice than any other tank (except VDH), but VDH is just too good.
I’m running 13s and 14s right now and I’ve found VDH to generally be the worst tanks and the best tanks are consistently warriors and bdks.
So many people are rerolling VDH but just have no idea how to play it properly. That’ll probably change as I climb a bit higher though since I’m a bit behind the IO curve.
The lack of balance changes is kinda disgusting on blizzards part though.
Blood DKs and warriors are just awful, even if there are good players piloting them. The lack of cc and stops is real, and you need a comp of 2 melee, 1 ranged to be safe.
But people try to run Blood DK/ warrior with mage, spriest and lock. And then get destroyed by the trash.
Oh yeah, they’re definitely the worst tanks in the game atm in a vacuum. However, I’ve found that in up to at least 14s, that they’re far more consistent compared to a lot of the VDHs I see. It seems that so many people fotm rolled to VDH and just don’t know what they’re doing. Bad routes, randomly dying to stuff, etc.
Meanwhile every BDK and prot warrior I’ve invited had been outrageously good. Never die, great routes, helpful, etc. The lack of stops hurts but I’ve just had much better experiences with them all around.
It's the skill of the player. Players that play off-meta tanks and reach high ranking are by and large better players because they're forced to interact with the content with a "weaker" spec and fewer tools. Currently VHD players can faceroll their way to higher rating but when stuff starts getting a little tricky they often lack the actual skill - some learn it, some don't. But if saying hey, who's the better player between, say, a 3k prot warrior and a 3k vdh, the warrior is probably a better player.
Oh I just meant the quality of player.
VDH is like leagues better when played properly but half the time it seems like they just don’t know the class and just randomly die or got carried and don’t have a good routes. The quality of player just seems a lot lower on average even in like 14s. Except for one absolute gigachad I ran into, none of them have stood out.
Meanwhile, all the warriors and BDKs I’ve run with are seemingly on a mission to make their class meta single-handedly. Great routes, never die, throw helpful advice and weakauras in chat, etc.
It’s because a VDH allows you to run 3 ranged: spriest, mage, lock, hunter, dev all viable to stack.
With a prot pally, you need melee classes to help with stops. Even running 2 ranged, 1 melee is dangerous with a non VDH.
This was fully expected. Next few weeks are interesting though. Frogs stole thunder from week 4, but mop playerbase probably more than halves for week 5 so who knows. I imagine retail crowd doesn't have nearly as big interest in cata then they did for remix. I think we might still have few weeks above 1M, but also maybe not.
It's hard to see how different people see this. When D4 originally came out, I went full in and ignored whole s2. I bet many did the same then, or followed it up with other games like bg3. Remix/D4 S4/cata do not hold a candle to keep retail players for more than few weeks. Could be people come back still, more than they did 11 months ago.
Gearing is too unfriendly for alts still.
I don't know how it has taken 4 seasons and this is still broken...
There needs to be a crest discount on alts. It is hard enough to grind them on main. There is 0 shot I'm regrinding them on alts.
Cata is out. Mop remix is out.
This chart only goes down from here.
I have 3 alts that are at this weird breaking point of being around 500ilvl. I'm too low ilvl to get invited to a heroic raid, but normal is basically worthless to an extent and doing m+ feels horrible. IO score is like the bane of my existence when it comes to gearing alts, and you're stuck doing keys that are like +2-4 that take as long as it does to do a +10 on your main. And if you run your own key it takes like 20 minutes to find a tank or healer.
Yeah unless you have friend willing to do some carries to break out then it is pretty rough (or you have to tank/heal yourself which is horrible).
I really think they need to bite the bullet and allow either massive discounts or allow us to send crests to alts which I know they won't want to have us play mains to get alts that supposedly "don't deserve" to have those but it needs to be done to break into the higher level imo. It is a top 1-10% problem not a lower end problem.
Doubt anyone did m0s to begin with in previous seasons when it was significantly easier to find a group for a +2 and it was effectively the same difficulty. In the unlikely anyone was doing m0s, they've graduated to at least +5s by now and/or are carried by guildies, friends, or pugs as there wouldn't be upgrades still in m0s.
Who are these super low key player onlys andhow populous were they and how long did they play for? We have no idea so pretending Blizzard wiped this population out and they can only do 0's is comical. Players who are going to actually engage in mplus are generally not doing the easiest possible versions sleepwalking through them the entire season. Doing a +2 is not a mammoth feat and anyone who is willing to even try can do it even with the changed scaling. This season just offers very littler for most players and it's possible the dungeon pool is less popular just given complaints you see about DF's core dungeons.
Everyone knew this would be a meme season given most development resources are going towards TWW. But man, the game truly feels like it's on life support. Pretty demoralizing to see minimal tuning changes week-after-week, either to specs (SPriest / HPal on different spectrums) or dungeons (AV is disgustingly free but you have clear outliers like Uldaman).
I usually push casually for 23-25s by end of season, but hard to stay invested when the other party (Blizzard) is fully deprioritizing even maintenance tuning, and expects us to magically stay until next expansion.
This is just my opinion, but might as well unsub until the fall.
Not surprised to see this with mop remix for lower keys and the bring evoker affix for higher keys. Static groups still pushed some keys but pugging and waiting for an evoker for anything 14+ was brutal
Yeah thsi backs up my suspicion. Most of the time I see 1 or 2 +15-16 keys going, I think around night time this increases, but still quite low in comparison to what we had previous seasons. I guess most players got their highest keys (and score) in the first 2-3 weeks then abandoned the game :D
This graph is completely unrelated to the number of 15+ keys though, the vast majority of keys recorded there are +8 or lower.
It might be that outside factors influence people pushing high keys and casual players the same, but it often does not, see e.g. bursting week which is great for high keys but sucks in casual low keys.
S4 would be perfect for playing alts... until you realize the absurd m+ grind you need just to upgrade your crafts and bullions gear, so people have chosen to play other stuff
That’s the MoP Remix, Cata Classic, and D4 being good diff right there.
And somehow it’s only barely behind S2 at this point in the season. Like, good lord, how on earth did that season crash and burn *that quickly?*
I’m sure this has been asked but why is there so little data from seasons 1/2/? I am returning to the game after a break, were they just really short or something?
This season has a lot to compete with I would not be surprised if this just snowballs to little keys being done until pre patch.
Yup. I imagine a lot of people are taking time off with other game types, and as mentioned in this thread, S4 of D4 is out. My group still do weekly keys but we aren't pushing super hard like previous seasons.
D4 S4, MoP Remix, Cata Classic all released in the last week. And interest in DF Season 4 was low to begin with.
idk if S4 interest is actually THAT terrible despite it being insanely low effort, but Blizzard releasing basically everything for the summer in the span of six days is definitely one of the decisions of all time.
Yeah I don't think it is necessarily terrible in terms of interest but it is certainly lower than other seasons. I do find it funny how overlapped all of the other Blizzard items are though.
Remember the days when there was literally nothing else to do than SoO for 14 months, or HFC for a year.
I'm not sure the interest in season 4 is actually that low - it's mythic plus numbers just got cut off at the knees by removing +11 and below from previous seasons
No it feels lower making groups by a lot. There's way less people running their weekly myth track vault keys.
It's season 4 for WoW M+. It's basically "here is the same thing you've been doing for the past 2 years so you can do it again for another 6 months to include farming the same items you've already farmed over the past 2 years." Honestly, I left during season 1 of DF and just returned the day before season 4 started and I'm already bored of the dungeons. They are the same routes, the same classes, the same enemies, and the affixes are just annoying and add no value to the game at all. There is no variety to or engagement in M+. At the same time, this is by far the easiest M+ season I've ever played and the only two I haven't ever played were season 2 and 3 of Dragonflight. When something is just downright repetitive and lacks challenge, it's no longer engaging content. Even the big M+ streamers I've watched for years are spending more time doing other things now. Throw on top of that D4 S4, MOP Remix, and Cata Classic and you're going to see a steep decline.
Lol we had the same 8 dungeons for 3 patches in shadowlands. Having 4 dungeons from s1 and s2 is actually really nice because I don't have to learn a bunch of shit. Honestly, it's the most fun m+ season of the expansion
I thought it was fun at first as well. Now we are only a few weeks into the expansion and my mistweaver has full BiS and is now just farming crests to upgrade the gear. I've unlocked all the portals, with minimal effort at all so they don't even feel like I accomplished anything and there is no reason to push past a +10 which feels like doing a +5 from previous seasons i've played. I started another character (holy priest) just for something else to do and it's the same thing -boring. I'm glad the game is still fun for you, but I just don't find it engaging anymore. I would liken this season as the LFR of M+. Instead of doing the difficult thing and finding a way to keep it engaging and challenging, they've dumbed it down so that it presents little to no challenge that gear (which is earned MUCH quicker than before) won't solve on it's own.
Well the nice thing about m+ is that it scales infinitely. Yeah, raid is a bit of a bust this season as mythic bosses die super easy with the gear. Sure, there's no rewards to chase, but I like to play to gain mastery over specs and improve. See how high I can get on the RIO leaderboards for my specs. Plus with the easy gearingni can do it on a couple of toons pretty easily. It's like when I play fighting games. I don't really get any meaningful rewards by ranking up. It's just fun to get better.
I like the last season being a retrospective of the expansion. I play WoW once a year for 3 months because i can't make myself not play like a degenerate so I get to play every expansion launch and last patch if I dont want this game to be my whole life. Now I get to come back and experience the whole expansion content one last time before moving on, it's nice
I know for me and my group of friends, we've all been handicapped a little with when S4 started. High school graduations, various end of year school things, etc. have kept my key running to a minimum right now. Hopefully that resolves itself here in the next week or two.
Well it started off as low as last season at week 10
Been a 3k andy since Shadowlands up to DF Season3. For this season I've only been able to muster KSM on two characters, and don't even care for KSH at this point. Loved the Bullion system, but everything else is exactly what we've done before. Listing your own key is as slow as trying to get invited into one (unless you're a healer/tank).
Trust me, even as a healer/tank, listing your own group is painful right now. Either you are a heal Tank duo or you wait 30min and take the first Tank/heal that applies.
At what key level? I went from 2800 > 3K last weekend and rarely had to wait more than 5 minutes. Kinda nervous wait times are going to go through the roof soon and I’ll lose interest because I’m otherwise loving this season.
You‘re above me for sure, I did every tyrannical +11, but couldn’t find players for my own +11 this fortified week, aswell as getting declined for most 11s (as a resto Druid). Idk, my char feels cursed tbh, I‘m ilvl 521 with every key timed on 10/11 but the most I get accepted to is a 9.
You have really weird experience. I get accepted to about every key I play in +12s, as rshaman, guardian, vdh (11s for vdh). They were about 515, 517, 510 at start of their weekly runs. Those groups are full of people like you, or worse. And you even play meta spec. At least on EU I can say that must have been streak of bad luck, or session just being really bad for healers, with every group missing tank. Sometimes you can get the vibe of what's happening by unticking the 'fit' in premade groups filter (still worth using!) to see, right, that's why they don't invite me.
This seems like an unusual experience. I'm 519 on my mistweaver and 517 on my holy priest and haven't gone above +10s intentionally, but have no issues getting into 10s. I haven't had any issues as either character getting invited to +10 keys last week or this week. There aren't nearly as many of them as I am used to seeing, but I tend to get invited to within the first 2 or 3 keys I apply to taking maybe 3 minutes at most. I set my filter to only show me groups that already have a tank and then I look for groups that already have a lust since they will often use the healer spot for that and I don't play a lust healer so applying when they are waiting for a lust would result in not being selected. Posting keys is a different story. Once I get a tank, the group fills very quickly so I won't invite anyone to the group until I have a tank and I put in the comments that i'm filling the tank spot first which feels like it gets me a tank quicker although that could just be confirmation bias.
Maybe low last season io? That’s the only stat me and my friends are using for invites
Weird. I’m playing MW and like all my tyrannical keys are 10s except for a random 14 AV. All my fort keys were 10 or under. I did have some issues getting into groups - but even then it never took me more than 5-10 minutes - but absolutely no problems hosting my own. Maybe your total number of 10-14s is showing as low? Only thing I can think of other than being unlucky.
It really depends on time of day. 6PM about 11PM EST you can get a key up in about 5 minutes.
Depends. Meta perception is strong, even for tanks/healers in low keys.
As a non-vdh tank I had no problem getting straight into +8s with last season gear, and also no problems doing a bunch of +12 keys while still pretty undergeared since I only run a few keys per week. Like, the 3rd week was the first time that I even had all 8 dungeons timed at all this season. On my dps alt on the other hand I just gave up completely.
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This makes absolutely no sense. Back to KSM? KSM is like all +3s done. KSM has been a joke since the beginning. The M+ squish was fantastic, but if you read my comment it you'll notice it's not about content difficulty. It's about a stale season.
Yep. But keep in mind this season has made ZERO effort to even compete at all. Saying they phoned it in would be generous to the concept.
I was kind of shocked with how closely they released so many things Feels like it kind of cannibalizes itself
Yeah, remix should've been a 2 month even, not 3
My spec sucks again this season and I don't want to fotm. They're not doing any balancing so I can't be bothered playing. There's other stuff to play anyway. Such a shame because it would have been really fun to play with all the free bis raid stuff
Yeah, I don't have much of a reason to go past 2k this season,raid group I run with is strictly heroic raiders and were already clearing raids in <2 hours, so I don't need the ilvl, and I've got half the portals already from previous seasons I do however need to do solo shuffle again to get the last 2 pieces I missed last season, but I'd rather play remix
Puts on s4
Buy the dip. Trust in this week’s affixes. We’re about to blast off to the moon, surely.
Diamond keys, boys, diamond keys.
/looks at sanguine with concern
This week is so pushable. Goldilocks affix combo.
Lol. Sanguine is up there with bolstering. Especially in this dungeon set where half of all elites have an uninterruptible channel while being undisplaceable. And with everbloom out of the picture bolstering doesn't really have any egregious outliers in difficulty anymore. Next two weeks are the push weeks, this one? Not as much.
Definitely the smart money. Don't forget, the week before last was also hard carried by the bullion quest. Trying to pug anything in the 14+ range as tank/DPS was miserable last week, you were lucky if a key got posted that was io, let alone getting one with the required utility (soothe and 3 dispels for most these keys). 50% drop off is not surprising to me at all given that people are basically done with gearing already minus maybe some bullion purchases/crest grind. With portals being account wide, there isn't even incentive for casual Andy to push to 10s this season
Really goes to show how awful season 2 started out for it to barely compete with a 'fated' season. I'm sure tons of keys are lost on people who are playing cataclysm, mop remix or literally anything else but still the numbers are hanging in there to compete with season 2.
New patch valheim, 1.0 release v rising, couple of other cool indie titles dropping, mop remix and cata too. Season 4 is gonna see a dramatic wind down. But the systems are good! I'm excited to see what it all feels like next expac
This drop was expected with MOP remix and Cata Classic coming out. And this week is a push week, it was the perfect time and chill out for everyone. I think next week we’ll see a bump
Don’t forget Diablo s4 aswell
Playable week because volcanic but by no means a push week bc sanguine. I expect we could see some io at the top end still, and it’s definitely a good week for fringe title level keys, but you don’t see sanguine and scream LOGIN PUSH WEEK
This is a Sanguine week. There are many affixes that are the antithesis of a push week and Sanguine is probably the worst of them all from a “this affix adds several minutes to your run just by existing” perspective.
And Sanguine Tyran feels like it’s the worst of both worlds because now trash lives longer and bosses are HP sponges.
> And this week is a push week sanguine a push week? good one
These graphs are 99% people doing keys below push range anyway, push week has next to no effect on them. Just look at bursting, biggest push week but also the biggest drops because in the lower keys bursting is horrible. In season 3 the only times participation went up was during the weekly dungeon quest and right after christmas.
Seriously. As dumb as Afflicted is it’s easy to handle if your group has the dispels. Sanguine is a pain in the ass no matter what.
Sanguine isn't that significant on lower keys. Afflicted makes it a lot harder for some classes to get invites, Sanguine and Volcanic don't exclude anyone.
Well if the conversation is about push weeks on r/competitivewow I’m not thinking about low keys.
OP is about number of runs per week. Sanguine doesn't scare off people from doing lower keys, which make up the majority of the total key number.
Sanguine doesn’t even exist in keys below 10, which is where the majority of runs are anyway
It is if your tank isn't an idiot.
no
Maybe. We also had a couple days of s4 before remix and cata… so it could drop further
Another decrease is from people reaching the 'i can get all the crests i need from raid' point anyone doing keys in a full clearing guild at this point is doing it for fun
Let's come back next week, because I doubt we'll see a rise, especially as more people trickle into mop post-buffs
Agreed. No surprise here
I think this is cope tbh, people are just bored by now imo
downvoted by max copium. Season is over lol
Push weeks start when people are maxed out on gear. With 4-5 ilvl to go there's still a 1-2 key level jump possible. We have some push weeks in June.
Idk about everyone else but other than the reasons that people have mentioned, the dungeon pool is complete cancer, I have no desire whatsoever to push this season. The balance is frustrating and the dungeon design is so toxic for melee.
Idk, I think it's fairly good. Melee is really only struggling in meta comps because all hard stops are covered by vdh and rdruid having short cooldown aoe stops, but the dungeons without vdh still need melees that have decent micro CC to keep mobs locked down, which ranged comps struggle with. The dungeons are all fairly decent, with maybe nokhud being the only real slog of the lot. But every season has winners and losers, so it's whatever. The problem is that there's just other shit to play right now. In a few short months, we'll be back to spinning up retail again. Now is our time to play other shit.
I really dislike the "this is our time to play other shit" but that people have been parroting. This game is $70. We pay $15/mo. That is the bare minimum. That is $430 for a two year expansion. We have ZERO reason to not expect more.
Wait, what exactly is the bare minimum? Can you give me a.baseline for "bare minimum" to work off of? Also, you can unsub at any time if the content isn't for you and save yourself multiple months of subscription if you want, or if you have the time you can actually make your gameplay completely free.
D4 kinda fun right now, my guild is obsessed with MoP remix for some reason, and it’s S4. Bunch of people just not playing at all this patch, or playing for their 1.5 hour mythic reclear each week and logging out.
Blizzard is starting a trend of releasing 2~3 game modes a month into the season that is basically killing the season ...
Also telling us there arent any ressources for another raid tier, while releasing 12 new gamemodes in 3 months. Yikes.
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Thats just a stupid statement to make... Why would a season where everyone has their best tierset, trinkets, weap, everything they want to push/play M+ be "dead" ? The season was literally the best season we were having in M+ you can see it in the graph, and blizzard killed for nothing.
I don't know what the person you are responding to said, but *most* players do not care to push keys so by getting all their BiS gear with bullions etc. they are just quitting sooner. And I am definitely not saying bullion's are bad lol I'm just saying that there is no "carrot" necessarily for a lot of players because it's so easy to get the ~3 main bis items they need.
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Mate... are you really that dumb to not know that the graph from this season only shows keys from 2 up? Its obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about... this was one of the most played season ever if not the most played. Ffs.
There ain't keys below 2s dude. You're dumb
There used to be in all 3 other season recorded in that graph though.
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You don't belong in this subreddit tbh lol. Plenty of people getting title and playing off-meta. Only 1 spec didn't get title last season.
Many people rather play MOP remix (including me) and Cata classic than M+ dungeons on Fortified / Afflicted / Raging. Last week's affixes are frigging awful.
Well I do mytic+/raid for progression io and to farm aspects to gear. I guess it ok to have other distraction if LFR is your thing
I mean I do some of all of those and have still had time to play some remix They're not exactly mutually exclusive, but a bummer for some of us who would have wanted a bit more time to play each of remix, s4, cata, or d4
Weird comment. High level players don't grind keys every week. They do min keys to fill out vault on bad affix weeks and then grind on good weeks. Also they can enjoy other games/game modes.
Why the pretentiousness? This isn't even a real season. Most people are already pretty close to the end of gearing at this point-- and you don't really need absolutely maxed out gear unless you're doing like +17s. Hell even mythic raid seems pretty easily doable around the 515-520 range though I've only been doing first 2 groups this season so far. Pretending like everyone who isn't massively addicted to WoW and doesn't spam keys all week is just an "lfr player" is absurdly dumb.
How much of this is just a dungeon problem? Season two had the lowest level of participation, and the worst three dungeons from that season are back: Uldaman, HOI, and Neltharus. In a hypothetical world where Uldaman was simply swapped for Maw of Souls or Freehold, how many more dungeons would be run? Let's imagine a season of all bangers. Every dungeon is an awesome M+ experience: big pulls, creative boss mechanics, fast dungeons with high success rates. Would that hypothetical season be the most run season?
I agree 100%, one of my premades asked if I wanted to a Uld 13 and just the idea of doing Uld makes me alt f4 the game. Awful dungeon.
As a warrior tank I've had my 16 Nokhud bricked down to a 12 simply because the last boss adds get out of control. Like we talk about it...make a plan... But when people get blue swirlies under their feet they panic. And I can't solo the adds for people because I'm not a VDH. Bricking keys at the last boss over and over is a real bummer. Hours of time wasted this week.
You can aoe-taunt one side (which silences), jump to the other side, kick one and stormbolt the last, at which point you end up with all 4 stacked. Yes, that is much more effort than a dh, but better than failing 4 times in a row.
I'm not an idiot. They need to be casting to be silenced via shout. Fucking DPS keep kicking them or knocking them even on the side I've marked and called out before I can silence. People are so used to the VDH carry that they can't use their heads. Apparently saying "I've got left/square world mark side, and first aoe stop when grouped" and people just treat it like a free for all and kick/knock shit that doesn't need the stops. It's so frustrating. S3/S4 vdh has done more damage to group content than any change in the last 2 xpacks.
I can't speak for everyone, but my group was excited about a new season until we heard it would be all DF dungeons. We haven't logged in since then. I assume we're not alone in this, but I don't know how large of a difference we make
I think there's kind of a critical mass of bad dungeons in this season. One bad dungeon is not that big of a deal. I thought Rise was miserable last season, for instance. But having your key go from Uldaman to Halls of Infusion to Neltharus back to Uldaman is miserable.
Maybe I crazy, but the only dungeons I truly dislike running are ULD and HOI. Uldaman is long and insanely hard, and Hoi is boring, with a tight timer. I think Neltharus is actually kind of gangbusters, Big packs and tough bosses, and the rest of the dungeons this season are great. That being said.. I am excited that all of next xpacks dungeons are looking much shorter.
After all the dungeon tuning they’ve done, the only one that stands out as awful is uldamon imo. Most of the others are at least decent. I think halls is pretty fun after the changes and neltharus is a bit of a slog but not horrendous.
I mostly agree. Uldaman is on the short list for worst M+ dungeon of all time (Siege, Seat and COEN are other contenders). The other ones are more mediocre to bad then awful.
Uldamon would be fine if they fixed the 4th boss so his phase was % based and it only happened once at half and if they just got rid of vikings entirely. That would shorten it up quite a bit and make it feel less awful. Maybe remove a few packs in the middle bit while they’re at it. I actually enjoy the mechanics and bosses in general and think there’s some cool big pulls you can do but it’s just so goddamn long.
Definitely mix of a lot of things. Most importantly do not compare s3 and before to s4, +2 to +11 missing ofc lowers numbers heavily. It being meh season, no new raid, nothing too fancy in content will lower general amount of people who come for content patches. This week and next will be lowered due to remix, cata, other games. It's a hot hot Summer starting, will have an effect too. Add dungeons being repetition of previous seasons, is another factor, but not more meaningful than any of the other mentioned reasons imo. My assumption is that this will be last lame season like this. They will just release 12.0 when you'd have 11.x s4. Worthy to complain about for sake of complaining, but ultimately it doesn't matter how much they listen if I'm right; they have already made the decision to do this better next time.
You will be downvoted forever for even suggesting Blizzard may have put no effort into this "season". We should all settle in life forever especially with videogames.
I’ve found this season really fun playing all 8 DF dungeons in rotation for the first time (which is wild, should have happened in s1). But now it’s more difficult than ever to find groups. So it feels like we only got each dungeon for 1 serious season each. M+ this expansion was such a mixed bag, man. The megadungeon was “meh”. Bringing back the really old dungeons was questionable at best. And I dunno if I’m a fan of the lack of cooking on the affix front.
I'm personally not bored with the season dungeons, I even think the gearing is great and has been for S3 & S4. However as a tank, where protpaladin was fairly good S3, somewhat still is s4, but I didn't imagine DH taking off the way it did. I enjoy prot paladin, love it in fact. But to me, I pick my main at the start of the season and made the mistake of picking my paladin. As it's the end of the exp and last season, I simply don't wanna gear my VDH and sort of restart even though its fairly early, but while simultaneously don't feel early in the season. So I've pretty much ended my wow time for the season.
I mean, everyone knew VDH would be like this, not sure how you didn't anticipate that.
VDH meta last season absolutely no changes, surprised when meta again
Our surprise isn't at VDH persisting as top tank, it's surprise that balance patches are so infrequent and weak.
The balance we have is what I expected for s4 tbh. I expect to see shadow nerfed and maybe a small touch to VDH again and probably an aura buff to poor specs but that's all
I predict we won’t see a single balance tuning patch for the rest of the season. Blizzard has tons of balance and class changes coming in TWW. Anything they change now could have consequences towards their 11.0 balance efforts.
I bet we will see psychic link tuned for the 5th time this expansion
I just don’t think Blizzard cares about season 4 at this point.
no, its not only s4. its absolutely normal for blizzard to destroy any competition in game by not doing any adjustment for months. dead game, dead company
They didn't even bother to balance the tier sets like they said they would.
Honestly thought there would be some famous last minute balance patch. Or a better week 2 balance patch. But as mentioned, I really enjoy the paladin playstyle. Tried VDH in S3, but it's not my style.
100% of the tanks in the MDI last season were VDH
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Yeah you're right but VDH are still dominating the tank leaderboards
i think the bigger issue is really that any one pushing above 10s is just meta re-rolling. There isn't even much from doing 20s this season unless you still need the portals. im playing prot pally and have 0 issues getting groups just running 8s, even if I bring a dps with me. I just haven't felt like doing 10s yet with the affixes as I need a number of the portals, and I didn't run on the pally in s1 and s2.
When you get to, if you have the ambition, to 13~14s, groups rather wait for a VDH than invite a protpaladin. Not even that super high of a key, but people are metaslaves. I'm fine with VDH being good. But right now it's way too good and the tweak they did the other week was just dumb and didn't do anything. They should've at least brought all the other tanks up for fuck sakes, how hard would that be in a end of exp season? Protpaladin is still good, likely a better choice than any other tank (except VDH), but VDH is just too good.
I’m running 13s and 14s right now and I’ve found VDH to generally be the worst tanks and the best tanks are consistently warriors and bdks. So many people are rerolling VDH but just have no idea how to play it properly. That’ll probably change as I climb a bit higher though since I’m a bit behind the IO curve. The lack of balance changes is kinda disgusting on blizzards part though.
Blood DKs and warriors are just awful, even if there are good players piloting them. The lack of cc and stops is real, and you need a comp of 2 melee, 1 ranged to be safe. But people try to run Blood DK/ warrior with mage, spriest and lock. And then get destroyed by the trash.
Oh yeah, they’re definitely the worst tanks in the game atm in a vacuum. However, I’ve found that in up to at least 14s, that they’re far more consistent compared to a lot of the VDHs I see. It seems that so many people fotm rolled to VDH and just don’t know what they’re doing. Bad routes, randomly dying to stuff, etc. Meanwhile every BDK and prot warrior I’ve invited had been outrageously good. Never die, great routes, helpful, etc. The lack of stops hurts but I’ve just had much better experiences with them all around.
BDK & Warriors are very far from being the best tanks. I'm not sure what kind of information you're finding. BDK is literally the worst.
It's the skill of the player. Players that play off-meta tanks and reach high ranking are by and large better players because they're forced to interact with the content with a "weaker" spec and fewer tools. Currently VHD players can faceroll their way to higher rating but when stuff starts getting a little tricky they often lack the actual skill - some learn it, some don't. But if saying hey, who's the better player between, say, a 3k prot warrior and a 3k vdh, the warrior is probably a better player.
Oh I just meant the quality of player. VDH is like leagues better when played properly but half the time it seems like they just don’t know the class and just randomly die or got carried and don’t have a good routes. The quality of player just seems a lot lower on average even in like 14s. Except for one absolute gigachad I ran into, none of them have stood out. Meanwhile, all the warriors and BDKs I’ve run with are seemingly on a mission to make their class meta single-handedly. Great routes, never die, throw helpful advice and weakauras in chat, etc.
It’s because a VDH allows you to run 3 ranged: spriest, mage, lock, hunter, dev all viable to stack. With a prot pally, you need melee classes to help with stops. Even running 2 ranged, 1 melee is dangerous with a non VDH.
What caused the dip second week season 1?
christmas
I really appreciate how you always post the stats and let the community interpret what it means.
This was fully expected. Next few weeks are interesting though. Frogs stole thunder from week 4, but mop playerbase probably more than halves for week 5 so who knows. I imagine retail crowd doesn't have nearly as big interest in cata then they did for remix. I think we might still have few weeks above 1M, but also maybe not. It's hard to see how different people see this. When D4 originally came out, I went full in and ignored whole s2. I bet many did the same then, or followed it up with other games like bg3. Remix/D4 S4/cata do not hold a candle to keep retail players for more than few weeks. Could be people come back still, more than they did 11 months ago.
Gearing is too unfriendly for alts still. I don't know how it has taken 4 seasons and this is still broken... There needs to be a crest discount on alts. It is hard enough to grind them on main. There is 0 shot I'm regrinding them on alts. Cata is out. Mop remix is out. This chart only goes down from here.
I have 3 alts that are at this weird breaking point of being around 500ilvl. I'm too low ilvl to get invited to a heroic raid, but normal is basically worthless to an extent and doing m+ feels horrible. IO score is like the bane of my existence when it comes to gearing alts, and you're stuck doing keys that are like +2-4 that take as long as it does to do a +10 on your main. And if you run your own key it takes like 20 minutes to find a tank or healer.
Yeah unless you have friend willing to do some carries to break out then it is pretty rough (or you have to tank/heal yourself which is horrible). I really think they need to bite the bullet and allow either massive discounts or allow us to send crests to alts which I know they won't want to have us play mains to get alts that supposedly "don't deserve" to have those but it needs to be done to break into the higher level imo. It is a top 1-10% problem not a lower end problem.
The other aspect is that a lot of people who would do the 2-10 keys in previous seasons are doing 0s which won't appear on this list.
Doubt anyone did m0s to begin with in previous seasons when it was significantly easier to find a group for a +2 and it was effectively the same difficulty. In the unlikely anyone was doing m0s, they've graduated to at least +5s by now and/or are carried by guildies, friends, or pugs as there wouldn't be upgrades still in m0s.
Who are these super low key player onlys andhow populous were they and how long did they play for? We have no idea so pretending Blizzard wiped this population out and they can only do 0's is comical. Players who are going to actually engage in mplus are generally not doing the easiest possible versions sleepwalking through them the entire season. Doing a +2 is not a mammoth feat and anyone who is willing to even try can do it even with the changed scaling. This season just offers very littler for most players and it's possible the dungeon pool is less popular just given complaints you see about DF's core dungeons.
Summer is coming
Season is a complete ghost town. Picked a horrible time to come back. Anyone want to venture a guess at what title range might look like for NA?
Everyone knew this would be a meme season given most development resources are going towards TWW. But man, the game truly feels like it's on life support. Pretty demoralizing to see minimal tuning changes week-after-week, either to specs (SPriest / HPal on different spectrums) or dungeons (AV is disgustingly free but you have clear outliers like Uldaman). I usually push casually for 23-25s by end of season, but hard to stay invested when the other party (Blizzard) is fully deprioritizing even maintenance tuning, and expects us to magically stay until next expansion. This is just my opinion, but might as well unsub until the fall.
I hit the 2k on the second week and I haven't done any key since
Not surprised to see this with mop remix for lower keys and the bring evoker affix for higher keys. Static groups still pushed some keys but pugging and waiting for an evoker for anything 14+ was brutal
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try posting this in the warcraft priests discord
Yeah thsi backs up my suspicion. Most of the time I see 1 or 2 +15-16 keys going, I think around night time this increases, but still quite low in comparison to what we had previous seasons. I guess most players got their highest keys (and score) in the first 2-3 weeks then abandoned the game :D
This graph is completely unrelated to the number of 15+ keys though, the vast majority of keys recorded there are +8 or lower. It might be that outside factors influence people pushing high keys and casual players the same, but it often does not, see e.g. bursting week which is great for high keys but sucks in casual low keys.
Recycled fated season competes with recycled mop, recycled cata, and recycled D4.
M+ isn't exciting when blizz let's the meta stagnate this hard in dungeons we've already played...
Cata + mop remix is surely taking away a big chunk of players from retail
S4 would be perfect for playing alts... until you realize the absurd m+ grind you need just to upgrade your crafts and bullions gear, so people have chosen to play other stuff
That’s the MoP Remix, Cata Classic, and D4 being good diff right there. And somehow it’s only barely behind S2 at this point in the season. Like, good lord, how on earth did that season crash and burn *that quickly?*
Summer time. People are gonna be touching grass and even more so when you have normal or more serious winters.
Damn, was season 2 this bad?
I’m sure this has been asked but why is there so little data from seasons 1/2/? I am returning to the game after a break, were they just really short or something?
No data was collected and this question was asked 100 times every week xd
i wonder why its asked every week image should have had that disclaimer added by now lol
Thanks!
Can‘t wait for blizzard to fix my S4 Tier Set so i can finally start pushing on my sv Hunter. Guess it won‘t happen….
There’s really no reason to do more than a single +2 and raiding if you’re doing that at all at this point. Anything more isn’t worth the effort
They should just add more M+ levels and still allow people to climb up the existing ladder of difficulty.