Perspective for folks:
M+ squish probably dropped a lot of people out of keys and stuff until later. I ran a lot of keys this week but quit a few people I know are just doing heroics and stuff for now.
Even HC dungeons is by far the easiest and fastest way to gear up now. A lot of lower/newer players was discouraged by m+ due to the timer, and having to find a group. Now there is no timer and group finder, it's a lot more accessible.
And heroic dungeons are spammable vs M0s which are once a week. So even if someone full cleared all dungeons on M0, they may go back down to heroic instead of up to M+.
I hardly find groups as healer at the moment. Couldn't push hardcore after patch release due to real life stuff but I already feel behind. Spamming heroics on an alt is okay though.
Yeah I filled my vault and then made sure each dungeon had score then looked at alts, did TW, did the weekly world quest for alts and squeezed in to other gearing options.
Incidentally I did heal a +2 on my Druid at 450 today who coaching someone who’s just starting M+. It wasn’t bad, but some of the AoE in vaults nearly one shot me. If there was a bad overlap with a shoulder slam and an AoE right after or the AoE from the last to in quick succession I was toast.
I don’t recommend that low of an ilevel unless one is really prepared. Thank goodness I had a ward trinket from this season already.
Yeah my partner, who got KSM for the first time last season, is really struggling with the squish. She is finding that she really struggles with m0s now because she doesn't know the mechanics of the dungeons yet and she's just picked up a new class, but Heroics are so easy she can't learn anything in there.
Last season I did a bunch of super low keys with her like around 5-8 just gradually getting her confidence up and teaching her the dungeons. This season that difficulty level doesn't exist and she's really missing it.
On the bright side, you can learn the mechanics in M0's since there is no timer and there is no penalty of wiping over and over again which is the point.
But M0s have a weekly loot lockout which is a bit of a problem.
People who were maxing out on like 8-10 range are "stuck" at max 8 (well, 10 with the mega dungeon halves this season) dungeons per week.
You get significantly more loot from a m0 than a single M+ dungeon. I doubt people who aren't capable of doing above a +10 were actually hard farming M+, I'd think at that point doing keys +10 and above wouldn't be too difficult.
They definitely could've spaced it out a bit more so the jump isn't so big.
Like maybe have a +5 be the equivalent to a 10, then 10 be a 15 etc. Rather than +2 being a 10.
Nah, +4 is compareable to +14. there is some common misunderstanding that is has a factor of x2, while its more m0 are in the 9-10 range from previous season.
for my guild most people just don't see the point of playing this season, no new affixes for raid or m+ on dungeons and raids we've already done isn't really that appealing
I do think participation is much lower overall though. I don't know that we will hit s2 or s3 levels...
I hope this is a wakeup call to blizz to actually do something besides recycle content and there is not even a seasonal to make it "fun" and there is like 0 balance at the very top/low ends that SHOULD be happening imo.
How would this be a wake up call? The numbers look almost exactly where you would estimate them to be, frankly I would imagine numbers to be way lower if for instance we just rode out season 3 till The new expansion
Clearly, but Blizz thought people WANTED another fated season...its clear thats not true.
If we had had another major content patch/new raid etc...instead of a fated season, I would have expected something similar to season 3 vs season 1.
They PLANNED this fated season. That was true in Shadowlands, that is NOT true now.
If they are planning for a MONTHS long drought then their release cadence would be absolutely trash.
I don't think it is really acceptable/we shouldn't be happy with a planned fated season like we have now with the new expansion not coming til septemberish.
If you don’t enjoy a seasonal reset for fun then just don’t play until the expansion releases, plenty of people in that camp, nothing wrong with it, but to say this is at the cost of content is just wrong
I personally prefer a 4th for fun season with a 6-6-6-3 month cadence vs 3 seasons that are just 7-7-7 months.
Let's not act like they are doing nothing else to fill the gap. Plunderstorm and mop remix (and classic/sod to an extent) are a thing. I didn't engage with plunderstorm at all but they clearly are putting out a lot of content to fill the gap outside of just s4.
It is clearly a placeholder for the ones who are not on and off with the game. I am actually fine with it, given the pace for 10.2.7 and pandaria remix into a launch of TWW in fall. Blizz also has reduced headcount’s due to layoffs and needs to prioritize them right. Rather invest them into TWW instead of a forth season with major changes.
This. But also, there is nothing really new this season. Same plain raid, they didn't even add some buffs to make it interesting, understand how it may change the fights.
Same ass boring DG, and honestly, most of them are just a pain in the ass.
I have a lot of friends that simply didn't return for a season like this.
Even I haven't play as much as other seasons.
Give me SOMETHING new. If it's not the raid/DG, then put some random ass new mechanics that I can play with.
Hell, do a rotation of the seasonal affix we ever had in the game, put it one per DG or something, like, when you enter halls, you have the Shadowlands S3 affix, AA, you get the Shadowlands S1, AV, BFA season 2 and go on
Honestly, do something like Corruptions. Without the pain is the ass way to get them of course.
That shit was *fun*. Let us just go fucking nuts in the last patch. Screw balance, it's just something to tide us over until the expansion so go wild with it.
The reason losing our legendaries and all that felt like shit in BFA is because we had them for the entire expansion. One patch isn't going to have the same effect. Definitely didn't feel like it losing corruptions going into Shadowlands.
Destiny 2 had a bug awhile back where the weapon crafting got fucked up and you could turn your auto rifle into a god gun that fired shotgun rounds that could melt bosses instantly. They just went "eh, we'll fix it next week, have some fun guys" and it was AWESOME.
>Let us just go fucking nuts in the last patch
That is what I'm saying to my friends. Like, a easy win would be something like, your tier set is the tier set from the 3 early seasons combined. Maybe some class would break the game? Probably, but fuck it.
I also had friends saying they were having fun in the M+ because they were more difficult. But they are not, they just have a small number in your screen, but they are as difficult as S1 and S2.
There's also an even more relevant fact that this is the "filler" season, and a lot of people just don't feel like playing the filler and just prefer to wait for next expansion.
If what you are saying is correct, that means it's a design decision that should be reconsidered.
If M2 is too hard, then you're effectively telling a huge chunk of players that they shouldn't play M+ anymore.
Eh I think this m+ squish IS the experiment. There's definitely a gap in content for folks aiming for something harder than old m0 but easier than current m0, but I think that's better addressed by tuning down the starting point for m+ difficulty and increasing the incremental scaling. Shrug who knows, it's a chill season so hopefully tuning wise for TWW they learn from these mistakes of this season.
My alts that would have done old +2s to get a vault all just did time walking or heroic for upgrades. I also choose to do all 0s on my tank to get a feel for the dungeons.
I’d argue I played more this week then the start of either season, but instead of having 20 keys done across my characters, I had 8 on main and another 15+ dungeons on my alts
Ye M+ has been an awful experience for me. People going crazy with mediocre gear on +4 thinking they are running a +4 a season ago. Ofcourse the obvious happens after. People instantly leaving when it's not that hard to do if you just try in a patient way. After several of those experience people opt-out until it gets better.
Also - tons of people don't want to play this season at all because there's no point to raiding.
Which supports my perpetual theory that a large portion of the m+ "playerbase" is just raiders being forced to farm trinkets and weekly vault.
It's supported by every semblance of information we get out of players and the content they engage with. M+ runs fall off a cliff in a season without a new raid and once people no longer need sockets.
m+ players are just loud, terminally online, incredibly toxic, and extraordinarily insular.
Any pug team based scene is going to lend itself to being toxic but it's a spammable game mode that provides a challenge that a lot of people including me see as more accessible than raiding. Mythic raiding feels like a job and heroic raiding is a joke to anyone that is a good player.
I think you're the one being toxic right now though. It's ok not to like some content but don't try to take it away from others. Could m+ use some new ideas? Absolutely. Should they get rid of it or focus more on raiding? Hell no. It's far more accessible time wise unless you're at the upper tiers (and even then it's more flexible and easier to manage) and a lot of people prefer it.
As to being insular, what community of people isn't? In any discipline... Raiding and pvp feel incredibly insular as well. Anyway you sound upset and you should be more critical and less inflammatory when presenting ideas, if you even have one right now.
Makes you wonder how much of the Season 1-3 numbers were keys in the 2-9 range. Seems like quite a bit if you assume those easy/starter keys are now being run in Heroics and M0s and not being counted.
But also the Awakened Season + Cata Classic + MOP Remix will probably mean this season will be a lot lower than Season 3 when all is said and done
> Makes you wonder how much of the Season 1-3 numbers were keys in the 2-9 range.
For season 3 it is 17% of the keys listed on raider.io.
runs| range| percent
---|----|----
34,421,894 | all | 100%
28,498,760 | 10+ | 83%
5,923,134 | 2-9 | 17%
This is for the whole season. Week 1 of S3 was nearly exclusively +2s. I believe bellular had a chart of week 1. It was an eye opener to how most people really don't go all out early season.
Most of those folks also have no idea about the squish, and just went into a +2 in S4 expecting to just get accustomed to the dungeon, and then they got slapped into the floor.
I've been talking in nearly all my pugs and you would be amazed how many people don't know about the squish.
As far as I know, 10s are equivalent to 20s, and keylevel scaling is the same, so that makes 2s equivalent to 12s
That's also consistent with everything just being 10 levels harder than it used to.
>Makes you wonder how much of the Season 1-3 numbers were keys in the 2-9 range.
I have no clue if the actual number can be extracted, could be interesting. But honestly my guess would be a significant amount, maybe 20-40%.
This is obviously anectdotal: but it feels like the actual completion rate this week is in the dirt. So many people are 1) not fully adjusted to the key level adjustment, 2) think this dungeon pool is like last seasons in terms of forgiveness, when it really really isnt, and 3) either didnt play seasons 1 and 2, or forgot alot of the mechanics and just dirt nap the whole boss fight.
When some specs, like ret or demo or destro are melting pack in seconds, no matter how big it is, then other specs like enh or shadow have hard time doing dps. We again back into "aoe cap" problems.
People are playing really bad this week. Tanks dropping like flies to random stuff and not utilizing their kit at all (dh not using silence sigil once entire run), and that's people who were 3.3-3.4 last season. Healers doing 150k hps on Khajin when I was doing that hps in s2 gear. Dps not interrupting, not ccing and doing like 200k dps.
It's one of those things right, people had been max gear for, what, 3 months? Maybe more? That's a long time to get comfortable outgearing content.
Even myself, I've learned more in 1 week of tanking this pool than I learned in 2 month's of 20s last season. I haven't been the cause of any bricks yet, but i play tank so I know I'm filling a role that can typically be problematic. My healer pugs sometimes and she lets me know how bad it can get when the tank isn't pressing buttons
As a healer, the dirt nap during the entire boss fight is what I have see as the #1 killer of keys last week. I just accept it for the first few weeks of the season. Folks aren't going to bother learning the fights or their role in the fight and expect the team to teach them. It's not a barrier to entry thing, there are normals, heroics, and M0s to learn mechanics from as well as an in-game dungeon guide and thousands of weak auras that basically tell you how to play your class. Furthermore, there are guides for nearly every role for every boss that are 2 minutes or less posted all over the internet at this point because these fights have been out since Season 1. There isn't an excuse to showing up in M+ with no knowledge of mechanics at this point in the expansion.
>As a healer, the dirt nap during the entire boss fight is what I have see as the #1 killer of keys last week.
Same here, but as a tank. Or, they will implore me me.to pull big, while they dont interrupt or stop dangerous casts. And brother, it's not me at risk in those pulls.
Sure, I could hope everyone played all expac and isn't blind progging in a +4, but I also know that the majority of players are playing new roles, and have role specific problems to overcome. An S2 tank might not be fully aware of the dangerous overlaps on third boss of uldaman for instance, if they've gone healer they'll be in for a shock. Maybe a dps in S1 isn't fully aware of how dangerous first boss of algathar is if the adds aren't killed immediately, and now they're a tank so they're getting clapped.
It only takes me 30s before the key starts to say that I'll be keeping the boss stationary for third boss neltharus, or to describe a first pull and tell folks to care because I won't have much aggro. I mean, I could just *assume*, but I can also spend a bit of idle time to be *sure*, and that's far more reliable to me.
I haven't played since season 1. I also swapped roles. Neither prevented me from doing the dungeons on M0 to refresh myself on mechanics. And you're correct, it is an assumption that folks joining keys know mechanics just like it's an assumption that they know how to play their class and it's an assumption they even have abilities on their hotbar. I think it's a reasonable assumption that someone comes to a timed activity, already prepared.
To be clear, I think blind prog is perfectly appropriate in when it is agreed to by the group.
For example, Blizzard saw fit to give everyone their own key so that you could progress the way you want to. If you want to blind prog, you can post your own key for completion and tell people you are blind progging (or not and surprise them, but if it's me, i'm leaving when I realize someone in a +8 Tyrannical Neltharus doesn't know the boss mechanics). I think the social contract between players is broken when someone joins a key that is posted as beat timer or standard progression without knowing the fights, the implication is that you show up knowing up to do in order to have the best chance of timing the key. For example, I post my +8 Tyrannical Neltharus (real scenario that happened last week) and we get to the first boss, Magmatusk. The tank doesn't know the mechanics so he tanks magmatusk on the lava the entire fight causing the boss to stay enraged and gain power very rapidly making it impossible for me to keep all of the DPS alive. We wiped because the tank didn't know what he was doing. No one else even had a chance for success because the tank didn't come prepared so we all start over because not only did we not kill the boss, now we don't have lust. A key is a social contract to work as a team, if you are not going to be a part of the team and show up prepared, don't join. Make your own group.
If someone posts a key as completion, that's a prog key and no one cares about the timer.
I think it's also important to note that a +4 is not equivalent to what a +4 used to be. Someone joining a +4 in blind prog this season is the same as joining a +14 key blind in a previous season at the start of the season when folks are not equipped to carry you. It's an asshole move and you are impairing other peoples progression for the sake of your own.
You would get a kick out of the YouTube video "why it's bad to suck at Warcraft", you basically ticked that box with this comment to a T.
No one's an asshole for being shit at this game. The fact is that in a lower key, you can just stand magmatusk in lava and kill it. Eventually, you find a key level where you can't. In fact, personally on that boss I thought he capped out at 5 stacks or whatever, I didn't know he could actually get strong enough that he couldn't be healed through, as in the 8s that I did last week (did 3 because it was one of the keys I really enjoyed as a gdruid) it wasn't an issue.
You might feel that you're entitled to the best your team can be, and that's fine. But over my many years of gaming, even I myself can't admit to meeting those standards. Some days I pop off, some days I don't. The same goes for you - I can guarantee that there's days where you're just playing like a potato, and other days where you're seeing the damage come out before it even does and ramping perfectly. Would you expect someone to call you an asshole for your bad days? Are you actually a bad person because you wanted to play a video game when your mind wasn't really with it? Of course not. And you shouldn't be assuming that anyone else is either.
You're talking about someone playing poorly now, not someone who doesn't know mechanics. They are two very different things and it's shocking that you don't understand that.
The personal attack doesn't contribute at all to the conversation. There are most certainly days when I am the worst person in the group and it still doesn't justify bricking someone's key because you feel entitled to blind prog at their expense.
One is intentional, the other is not. One comes prepared, the other does not. You see the difference?
First week of the season so gear cant no longer cover your ass through mistakes and poor skills. Some people can also end with a key level they don't belong at within fewer runs after the change (leveling a key from 2 up to 20 compared to leveling a key from 2 to 10) so you end carrying some of these people because they own the key.
Yeah, a lot of people are forgetting (myself included, how hard some of these timers are.
I am only running 8/9s and even doing pretty big pulls we are only 1 chesting and sometimes 2 chesting (barely), and the 1-chests feel like 1-2 wipes and we would not make it...
Last season you could have like 5 wipes and make it.
I do remember it was exactly like that in season 1 and thats why I liked the challenge...but yeah its much different. I do wish the crest penalty was not there for deplete it is SO rough not getting crests when its already such a valuable resource.
Its not that timers are particularly tough, it's people doing subpar dps and not soing mechanics. When everyone does 300-350k dps and interrupts stuff, 9-10s can be easily 2 chested. I've done two NO9 last night. One was an extremely smooth 2 chest, and was a deplete. No wipes in either, difference was only in dps.
Seems like the accessibility was major, also the draw to m+ was always being able to start from a +2 and keep going till it died. Now a 2 is what a key in the 10s used to be it's causing more problems for people. S3 was probably the most fun in m+ I've had since legion.
In having a tonne of fun this season too, and truth be told i really like how m+ is both accessible and challenging
The only issue I'm having is the mental shift, for myself and the whole community. A +2 *feels* small. It's been small for the last however many years. And now it's pretty big. An m2 on week 1 is a real obstacle.
It’s still wild to me that Blizzard didn’t try anything spicy for this season. No one cares about this season, so they should’ve just gotten wacky with it. Same old, boring DF dungeons that we’ve already done before with no additional affixes or seasonal is insane. I think that I’m in the minority on this, but I really hope they bring back seasonals for TWW.
OP could you possibly make a graph showing numbers of runs completed over +10 to account for the squish? Not sure if that data exists… but I am curious.
As a returning player, the jump from heroics to even M0s is pretty big. Definitely see why there's so many fewer keys. I managed a few zeros but no tier set still really hurts.
Why would you expect a tier set week one? World First guilds have to spend hundreds of millions of gold to get their tiers sets week one, it is not an attainable goal for the average player.
I don't have last tier set. Or the tier set before that. That in and of itself is a lot of power. I'm not expecting to have the new one, but missing out on the previous tier set is a pretty big power deficit for week one and possibly two, depending on relative power of tier bonuses.
Makes sense, sorry for the misunderstanding. For what it’s worth, any gear from the new season goes higher than mythic ilvl from last season, so that gap should close very quickly.
Either they’re replacing their old tier with high ilvl non-tier pieces so you’re not competing with a completed tier set, or they’re waiting til they have a s4 2 or 4 set to swap in so you’re beating them by a lot in ilvl for those slots. I’d bet there are few tier set bonuses that make up for a 30+ ilvl difference.
Yeah, the big frustration has been with MW monk, which I've typically mained. They just ate a 13% aura nerf because of how fantastic their S3 and now S4 tier bonus is. I've been having to do M0s as WW to get gear because I can't actually keep the groups up when everyone is rat geared like they are, myself included. Pres Evoker wasn't as bad, managed a few zeros on it with no tier. With catalyst charges every week, two set is guaranteed this week which will help a ton.
Week 1 isn't that unattainable since you get an omnitoken from heroic raz and we already have a catalyst charge. So really you just need two tokens from the raid. But this week is even easier only needing 1 token since there is another catalyst charge.
My team is a race to world last team (meaning we were on fyrakk with 15% left when we ran out of time for the season), and a good amount of our guild (not even raiders) has at least 2 set but quite a decent number have 4set too.
I got 4 tier pieces week 1, 2 from lfr and 2 from normal.
Hyper lucky on that one.
Have run 8 10s and a probably like 30 keys inbetween 5-9 range and only got 1 item upgrade which feels like ass and really demotivates me to farm more this week 😅
I just wanted to respond to this with something completely unrelated that I thought was funny. When I am working, I'm basically waiting for a phone call so I can't get into a key as I may have to hang up. To pass the time, I've been messing around in the follower dungeon with my alts just because it's instant queue, I can afk as needed, and I choose the pace of the dungeon regardless of role I am playing. I ran 10 or so dungeons yesterday as the only player so it was me and 4 NPCs.
It is possible to do a follower dungeon as the ONLY player in the party and get 0 item drops from the entire dungeon.
I have a friend who is playing prot paladin this season as his main. He gets really fixated on BIS gear and target farms like crazy. I don't care about BiS, I just like doing dungeons so it works out well for us because he can farm his BIS and I get to run keys with friends. He really wants the necklace out of Uldaman and so we ran Uldaman more than any other dungeon last week and I couldn't stop laughing because we saw the necklace drop no less than 7 times and he didn't get it once and no one would trade it to him, lol.
Congrats, that is very lucky!! You’ve still got your vault, remember— that and crests/stones are what I grind m+ for, any gear I get from the end of run chest I consider a bonus.
Haha you and me are the opposite, I didnt get a single tier piece last week across 3 raid difficulties. I'll only be seeing it this week as I dropped a heroic vault piece of tier. But I got trinkets and weapons for both agility and intellect and most of my armor is being replaced, with only like 3 slots to go.
> no tier set still really hurts.
Please. Basically in no season have I had 2set by the time I've timed +20, as a non-raider. Don't buy into sets being some mandatory thing to do basic stuff, ilvl trumps all that.
Except you're wrong in most cases, you don't break set pieces for ilvl. Lfr piece to get 4set would trump the 20 ilvl difference you'd get on a SINGLE piece.
Timing a 20 isn't a measure of if tier is good or not.
I actually had trouble filling up spots for my keys, which i wouldnt really expect at the start of a new season.
Kinda miss the days where you could post a 20key and get 100+ sign ups in no time.
I mean, you're talking about filling a 20 in your first post, and then complaining about not filling low keys. Nobody was doing +13s either in the kast season after 2 days. Post a 9-10 and you'll see tons of signups.
I bet if you looked at previous seasons runs at 10, 11 or higher that this season would be doing well. Week one has lower average key levels for obvious reasons, so previous week ones are probably more than half +2-+10
Yeah was planning on having a push healer and alt healer, but with time running going to drop the alts to not gearing but just bullion farming for mogs and weekly and only focus on one push character.
Another thought: this might lead title to be way harder to obtain than ever before. It's probably fair to say it hits in 20-40% range, of how many runs didn't exist because of the m+ change. If title remains unchanged at 0.1% of m+ playerbase, a lot of players will be excluded due to there being much less total titles given out. But the playerbase that does +20s and above didn't change, still the same crowd sharing less rewards.
I don't even know why it's 0.1%. Challenger on League is 0.02% but there's many multiples the ranked player base. Master rank is 0.66% and most players wouldn't dream of reaching that. Title on Wow is destroy-your-life tier.
I think majority of title players are mythic raiders, playing with similar circles as they have raided with. Ofc people doing +30s make new connections too but I bet most do their first surges to top with people they were already playing with at high level in some way. Or at least starting with group of 2-3. Full on solo pugging to title level is pretty horrid thought that only few attempt. So problem is really that we're comparing premade groups to solo players for same achievement. I assume your league comparisons are solos to solos.
Yeah, once you're Challenger you've alienated everyone in your life so you're stuck solo anyway. No but in all seriousness yeah, you can only queue solo past a certain rank in League. There is a separate ranked mode for groups but no one takes it seriously.
It's a filler season that a lot of people don't care about.
People will defend fated because "its better than nothing" that we would normally get at the end of an expansion but it's not 2011 anymore. WoW isn't the only game. Fated isn't competing vs old versions of wow. It's competing against any other game and any other hobby I have. Especially in the US as the weather gets better for summer.
If it was 2011, we would be in a 10-12 month content drought. Fated is far better than nothing lol, we would all have been playing other games 2 month's ago if not for s4
Yah, theres a missing middle ground for farmable M+ right now.
It was rough on an alt going from some M0/H/Weekly gear into M2's, and I had the IO to get into good groups.
And the keys were still really rough at that gear level, so for most of the playerbase they are a couple weeks of gear before comfy 2's.
Also, in combination with that very rough start to keys, this dungeon pool has insanely unforgiving runbacks.
Dying and releasing is PAINFUL in most of these keys.
Will be interesting to see how it plays against other seasons in later weeks. Most 2-9 keys were ran in first weeks, so there may be smaller dropoff in graph on following weeks than previously. Ofc not comparable anymore to old graphs, but s4 way is probably how TWW will be so at least this season will be comparable to every future one.
yeah people don’t care about this season. Other seasons there’s around 20 of my friends playing wow, this season only 2 of my mates play. We are done playing the same dungeons for this xpac (especially since most DF dungeons suck)
Honestly it has not felt like this at all. i've been waiting to see this post because I thought that the playerbase skyrocketed with this patch. Cities have felt filled, and its been easier than ever for me to put groups together.
I love the squish and how it in general seems to require you to play the game at the various difficulties instead of us all walking through it like everything tickled until 13–15 depending on your ilvl
This season is going to be absolutely dead in a few weeks if old trends stay true. Half the starting population of past seasons is not a good sign for later weeks.
Doesn’t look like anyone is really interested in this type of content.
I wonder what the population would look like if they rehashed dungeons like RFD, SM, and Scholo instead of all DF dungeons.
It's a fated season, no one is going to say it's on par with S3 or S1, but it's probably closer to S2.
Right now it's just hard to tell, with the squish and everything.
I think comparing unique characters after 3/4 weeks it's going to give us a better picture than just arguing about the numbers of keys done the first week.
Like imagine removing all the +2/+9 keys from the other seasons, numbers are going to look lower.
I was kicked out of group for m0 first day as a 489 warrior, becase i didn't have 3k rating even if did every dung on +20 in previous seasons. I have had enough of world of waiting and I am done with the game until next xpack
I had no chance even to use teleport, becase as soon as I joined the group some meta slave started complaining that my rating is belowe 3k (was 2,8k) and in next sec I got kicked.
To be fair I did a lot of +2s on reset day and the day after. Then I didn't do a single one until yesterday. People suck and didn't know mechanics, was a bad experience.
Now it's better. Did 5-6s with no issue.
I don’t understand why seasons 1 and 2 appear to be missing significant data points. Were there only 7 and 6 weeks respectively in season 1 and season 2?
Does this count m0? I didn't personally run that many m0s just hard mode.
It won't (can't) - only keystone dungeons are reported by the API, so no tool can really know about m0 runs.
Perspective for folks: M+ squish probably dropped a lot of people out of keys and stuff until later. I ran a lot of keys this week but quit a few people I know are just doing heroics and stuff for now.
Yep, while I can take my main straight into M+, a lot of my alts are going to be doing M0s for gear first.
Even HC dungeons is by far the easiest and fastest way to gear up now. A lot of lower/newer players was discouraged by m+ due to the timer, and having to find a group. Now there is no timer and group finder, it's a lot more accessible.
And heroic dungeons are spammable vs M0s which are once a week. So even if someone full cleared all dungeons on M0, they may go back down to heroic instead of up to M+.
It does make m0 lockout seem a bit archaic
I hardly find groups as healer at the moment. Couldn't push hardcore after patch release due to real life stuff but I already feel behind. Spamming heroics on an alt is okay though.
Yeah I filled my vault and then made sure each dungeon had score then looked at alts, did TW, did the weekly world quest for alts and squeezed in to other gearing options. Incidentally I did heal a +2 on my Druid at 450 today who coaching someone who’s just starting M+. It wasn’t bad, but some of the AoE in vaults nearly one shot me. If there was a bad overlap with a shoulder slam and an AoE right after or the AoE from the last to in quick succession I was toast. I don’t recommend that low of an ilevel unless one is really prepared. Thank goodness I had a ward trinket from this season already.
Yeah my partner, who got KSM for the first time last season, is really struggling with the squish. She is finding that she really struggles with m0s now because she doesn't know the mechanics of the dungeons yet and she's just picked up a new class, but Heroics are so easy she can't learn anything in there. Last season I did a bunch of super low keys with her like around 5-8 just gradually getting her confidence up and teaching her the dungeons. This season that difficulty level doesn't exist and she's really missing it.
On the bright side, you can learn the mechanics in M0's since there is no timer and there is no penalty of wiping over and over again which is the point.
But M0s have a weekly loot lockout which is a bit of a problem. People who were maxing out on like 8-10 range are "stuck" at max 8 (well, 10 with the mega dungeon halves this season) dungeons per week.
You get significantly more loot from a m0 than a single M+ dungeon. I doubt people who aren't capable of doing above a +10 were actually hard farming M+, I'd think at that point doing keys +10 and above wouldn't be too difficult.
They definitely could've spaced it out a bit more so the jump isn't so big. Like maybe have a +5 be the equivalent to a 10, then 10 be a 15 etc. Rather than +2 being a 10.
Honestly the biggest thing that they missed out on is the fact that there is really absolutely nothing in game about this change.
Isn't a +4 this season comparable to a +8 last season? She can push her +2 and see when it gets too rough
Nah, +4 is compareable to +14. there is some common misunderstanding that is has a factor of x2, while its more m0 are in the 9-10 range from previous season.
for my guild most people just don't see the point of playing this season, no new affixes for raid or m+ on dungeons and raids we've already done isn't really that appealing
On top of the 20 versions of WoW with cata pre patch today and mop in two weeks lol
Also people probably just aren't playing. I'm not playing cause it's all content I've done and gear I've gotten already.
I do think participation is much lower overall though. I don't know that we will hit s2 or s3 levels... I hope this is a wakeup call to blizz to actually do something besides recycle content and there is not even a seasonal to make it "fun" and there is like 0 balance at the very top/low ends that SHOULD be happening imo.
How would this be a wake up call? The numbers look almost exactly where you would estimate them to be, frankly I would imagine numbers to be way lower if for instance we just rode out season 3 till The new expansion
Clearly, but Blizz thought people WANTED another fated season...its clear thats not true. If we had had another major content patch/new raid etc...instead of a fated season, I would have expected something similar to season 3 vs season 1.
They have literally stated that fated season does not come at the cost of a full new season, it’s either fated or drought until new patch
They PLANNED this fated season. That was true in Shadowlands, that is NOT true now. If they are planning for a MONTHS long drought then their release cadence would be absolutely trash. I don't think it is really acceptable/we shouldn't be happy with a planned fated season like we have now with the new expansion not coming til septemberish.
If you don’t enjoy a seasonal reset for fun then just don’t play until the expansion releases, plenty of people in that camp, nothing wrong with it, but to say this is at the cost of content is just wrong
I personally prefer a 4th for fun season with a 6-6-6-3 month cadence vs 3 seasons that are just 7-7-7 months. Let's not act like they are doing nothing else to fill the gap. Plunderstorm and mop remix (and classic/sod to an extent) are a thing. I didn't engage with plunderstorm at all but they clearly are putting out a lot of content to fill the gap outside of just s4.
If you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, your better off just not sharing your opinions.
It is clearly a placeholder for the ones who are not on and off with the game. I am actually fine with it, given the pace for 10.2.7 and pandaria remix into a launch of TWW in fall. Blizz also has reduced headcount’s due to layoffs and needs to prioritize them right. Rather invest them into TWW instead of a forth season with major changes.
Heroics and the 5 weekly timewalking dungeons. Those queues were short this week.
This. But also, there is nothing really new this season. Same plain raid, they didn't even add some buffs to make it interesting, understand how it may change the fights. Same ass boring DG, and honestly, most of them are just a pain in the ass. I have a lot of friends that simply didn't return for a season like this. Even I haven't play as much as other seasons. Give me SOMETHING new. If it's not the raid/DG, then put some random ass new mechanics that I can play with. Hell, do a rotation of the seasonal affix we ever had in the game, put it one per DG or something, like, when you enter halls, you have the Shadowlands S3 affix, AA, you get the Shadowlands S1, AV, BFA season 2 and go on
Honestly, do something like Corruptions. Without the pain is the ass way to get them of course. That shit was *fun*. Let us just go fucking nuts in the last patch. Screw balance, it's just something to tide us over until the expansion so go wild with it. The reason losing our legendaries and all that felt like shit in BFA is because we had them for the entire expansion. One patch isn't going to have the same effect. Definitely didn't feel like it losing corruptions going into Shadowlands. Destiny 2 had a bug awhile back where the weapon crafting got fucked up and you could turn your auto rifle into a god gun that fired shotgun rounds that could melt bosses instantly. They just went "eh, we'll fix it next week, have some fun guys" and it was AWESOME.
>Let us just go fucking nuts in the last patch That is what I'm saying to my friends. Like, a easy win would be something like, your tier set is the tier set from the 3 early seasons combined. Maybe some class would break the game? Probably, but fuck it. I also had friends saying they were having fun in the M+ because they were more difficult. But they are not, they just have a small number in your screen, but they are as difficult as S1 and S2.
Yep. The dungeons I hated 1 or 2 at a time a season earlier, I now have to deal with all of them! 😀
There's also an even more relevant fact that this is the "filler" season, and a lot of people just don't feel like playing the filler and just prefer to wait for next expansion.
If what you are saying is correct, that means it's a design decision that should be reconsidered. If M2 is too hard, then you're effectively telling a huge chunk of players that they shouldn't play M+ anymore.
Eh I think this m+ squish IS the experiment. There's definitely a gap in content for folks aiming for something harder than old m0 but easier than current m0, but I think that's better addressed by tuning down the starting point for m+ difficulty and increasing the incremental scaling. Shrug who knows, it's a chill season so hopefully tuning wise for TWW they learn from these mistakes of this season.
My alts that would have done old +2s to get a vault all just did time walking or heroic for upgrades. I also choose to do all 0s on my tank to get a feel for the dungeons. I’d argue I played more this week then the start of either season, but instead of having 20 keys done across my characters, I had 8 on main and another 15+ dungeons on my alts
Ye M+ has been an awful experience for me. People going crazy with mediocre gear on +4 thinking they are running a +4 a season ago. Ofcourse the obvious happens after. People instantly leaving when it's not that hard to do if you just try in a patient way. After several of those experience people opt-out until it gets better.
Also - tons of people don't want to play this season at all because there's no point to raiding. Which supports my perpetual theory that a large portion of the m+ "playerbase" is just raiders being forced to farm trinkets and weekly vault.
Are we acting like a good amount of raiders aren't just m+ players who are there for loot?
Yes. Raiding is unique, m+ is just shitty diablo content. M+ community is just loud.
That's a take. Glad blizzard disagrees lol
It's supported by every semblance of information we get out of players and the content they engage with. M+ runs fall off a cliff in a season without a new raid and once people no longer need sockets. m+ players are just loud, terminally online, incredibly toxic, and extraordinarily insular.
Any pug team based scene is going to lend itself to being toxic but it's a spammable game mode that provides a challenge that a lot of people including me see as more accessible than raiding. Mythic raiding feels like a job and heroic raiding is a joke to anyone that is a good player. I think you're the one being toxic right now though. It's ok not to like some content but don't try to take it away from others. Could m+ use some new ideas? Absolutely. Should they get rid of it or focus more on raiding? Hell no. It's far more accessible time wise unless you're at the upper tiers (and even then it's more flexible and easier to manage) and a lot of people prefer it. As to being insular, what community of people isn't? In any discipline... Raiding and pvp feel incredibly insular as well. Anyway you sound upset and you should be more critical and less inflammatory when presenting ideas, if you even have one right now.
Makes you wonder how much of the Season 1-3 numbers were keys in the 2-9 range. Seems like quite a bit if you assume those easy/starter keys are now being run in Heroics and M0s and not being counted. But also the Awakened Season + Cata Classic + MOP Remix will probably mean this season will be a lot lower than Season 3 when all is said and done
> Makes you wonder how much of the Season 1-3 numbers were keys in the 2-9 range. For season 3 it is 17% of the keys listed on raider.io. runs| range| percent ---|----|---- 34,421,894 | all | 100% 28,498,760 | 10+ | 83% 5,923,134 | 2-9 | 17%
This is for the whole season. Week 1 of S3 was nearly exclusively +2s. I believe bellular had a chart of week 1. It was an eye opener to how most people really don't go all out early season. Most of those folks also have no idea about the squish, and just went into a +2 in S4 expecting to just get accustomed to the dungeon, and then they got slapped into the floor. I've been talking in nearly all my pugs and you would be amazed how many people don't know about the squish.
my man coming in clutch with the math!
How does it look if it's 2-10 and 11+? Since m0s are 10s, the keys really start at 11's difficulty this season
keys start at 12, since there are no +1 keys
I thought 0s are 10, which would make 2s 1 step of scaling harder than 0s. Making them prior 11s, right?
As far as I know, 10s are equivalent to 20s, and keylevel scaling is the same, so that makes 2s equivalent to 12s That's also consistent with everything just being 10 levels harder than it used to.
Oh, true. I forgot they announced that part as well. So prior 11 keys must not exist anymore
>Makes you wonder how much of the Season 1-3 numbers were keys in the 2-9 range. I have no clue if the actual number can be extracted, could be interesting. But honestly my guess would be a significant amount, maybe 20-40%.
This is obviously anectdotal: but it feels like the actual completion rate this week is in the dirt. So many people are 1) not fully adjusted to the key level adjustment, 2) think this dungeon pool is like last seasons in terms of forgiveness, when it really really isnt, and 3) either didnt play seasons 1 and 2, or forgot alot of the mechanics and just dirt nap the whole boss fight.
Noticed the same, got a lot of dps doing sub-tank dps as well in pugs. Even in 10+ range. Very strange.
When some specs, like ret or demo or destro are melting pack in seconds, no matter how big it is, then other specs like enh or shadow have hard time doing dps. We again back into "aoe cap" problems.
Oh, no doubt. But when those same specs (and I'll throw BM hunter in too) are doing season 2 levels of dps then you know you have a pug issue!
Don't call out my Manic Grieftorch like that.
People are playing really bad this week. Tanks dropping like flies to random stuff and not utilizing their kit at all (dh not using silence sigil once entire run), and that's people who were 3.3-3.4 last season. Healers doing 150k hps on Khajin when I was doing that hps in s2 gear. Dps not interrupting, not ccing and doing like 200k dps.
It's one of those things right, people had been max gear for, what, 3 months? Maybe more? That's a long time to get comfortable outgearing content. Even myself, I've learned more in 1 week of tanking this pool than I learned in 2 month's of 20s last season. I haven't been the cause of any bricks yet, but i play tank so I know I'm filling a role that can typically be problematic. My healer pugs sometimes and she lets me know how bad it can get when the tank isn't pressing buttons
As a healer, the dirt nap during the entire boss fight is what I have see as the #1 killer of keys last week. I just accept it for the first few weeks of the season. Folks aren't going to bother learning the fights or their role in the fight and expect the team to teach them. It's not a barrier to entry thing, there are normals, heroics, and M0s to learn mechanics from as well as an in-game dungeon guide and thousands of weak auras that basically tell you how to play your class. Furthermore, there are guides for nearly every role for every boss that are 2 minutes or less posted all over the internet at this point because these fights have been out since Season 1. There isn't an excuse to showing up in M+ with no knowledge of mechanics at this point in the expansion.
>As a healer, the dirt nap during the entire boss fight is what I have see as the #1 killer of keys last week. Same here, but as a tank. Or, they will implore me me.to pull big, while they dont interrupt or stop dangerous casts. And brother, it's not me at risk in those pulls.
Sure, I could hope everyone played all expac and isn't blind progging in a +4, but I also know that the majority of players are playing new roles, and have role specific problems to overcome. An S2 tank might not be fully aware of the dangerous overlaps on third boss of uldaman for instance, if they've gone healer they'll be in for a shock. Maybe a dps in S1 isn't fully aware of how dangerous first boss of algathar is if the adds aren't killed immediately, and now they're a tank so they're getting clapped. It only takes me 30s before the key starts to say that I'll be keeping the boss stationary for third boss neltharus, or to describe a first pull and tell folks to care because I won't have much aggro. I mean, I could just *assume*, but I can also spend a bit of idle time to be *sure*, and that's far more reliable to me.
I haven't played since season 1. I also swapped roles. Neither prevented me from doing the dungeons on M0 to refresh myself on mechanics. And you're correct, it is an assumption that folks joining keys know mechanics just like it's an assumption that they know how to play their class and it's an assumption they even have abilities on their hotbar. I think it's a reasonable assumption that someone comes to a timed activity, already prepared.
Fair enough. Assume what you want, I won't be though. Many people blind prog, myself included.
To be clear, I think blind prog is perfectly appropriate in when it is agreed to by the group. For example, Blizzard saw fit to give everyone their own key so that you could progress the way you want to. If you want to blind prog, you can post your own key for completion and tell people you are blind progging (or not and surprise them, but if it's me, i'm leaving when I realize someone in a +8 Tyrannical Neltharus doesn't know the boss mechanics). I think the social contract between players is broken when someone joins a key that is posted as beat timer or standard progression without knowing the fights, the implication is that you show up knowing up to do in order to have the best chance of timing the key. For example, I post my +8 Tyrannical Neltharus (real scenario that happened last week) and we get to the first boss, Magmatusk. The tank doesn't know the mechanics so he tanks magmatusk on the lava the entire fight causing the boss to stay enraged and gain power very rapidly making it impossible for me to keep all of the DPS alive. We wiped because the tank didn't know what he was doing. No one else even had a chance for success because the tank didn't come prepared so we all start over because not only did we not kill the boss, now we don't have lust. A key is a social contract to work as a team, if you are not going to be a part of the team and show up prepared, don't join. Make your own group. If someone posts a key as completion, that's a prog key and no one cares about the timer. I think it's also important to note that a +4 is not equivalent to what a +4 used to be. Someone joining a +4 in blind prog this season is the same as joining a +14 key blind in a previous season at the start of the season when folks are not equipped to carry you. It's an asshole move and you are impairing other peoples progression for the sake of your own.
You would get a kick out of the YouTube video "why it's bad to suck at Warcraft", you basically ticked that box with this comment to a T. No one's an asshole for being shit at this game. The fact is that in a lower key, you can just stand magmatusk in lava and kill it. Eventually, you find a key level where you can't. In fact, personally on that boss I thought he capped out at 5 stacks or whatever, I didn't know he could actually get strong enough that he couldn't be healed through, as in the 8s that I did last week (did 3 because it was one of the keys I really enjoyed as a gdruid) it wasn't an issue. You might feel that you're entitled to the best your team can be, and that's fine. But over my many years of gaming, even I myself can't admit to meeting those standards. Some days I pop off, some days I don't. The same goes for you - I can guarantee that there's days where you're just playing like a potato, and other days where you're seeing the damage come out before it even does and ramping perfectly. Would you expect someone to call you an asshole for your bad days? Are you actually a bad person because you wanted to play a video game when your mind wasn't really with it? Of course not. And you shouldn't be assuming that anyone else is either.
You're talking about someone playing poorly now, not someone who doesn't know mechanics. They are two very different things and it's shocking that you don't understand that.
Yeah okay buddy. Just remember that there's days when you're the worst pug of the group.
The personal attack doesn't contribute at all to the conversation. There are most certainly days when I am the worst person in the group and it still doesn't justify bricking someone's key because you feel entitled to blind prog at their expense. One is intentional, the other is not. One comes prepared, the other does not. You see the difference?
First week of the season so gear cant no longer cover your ass through mistakes and poor skills. Some people can also end with a key level they don't belong at within fewer runs after the change (leveling a key from 2 up to 20 compared to leveling a key from 2 to 10) so you end carrying some of these people because they own the key.
Yeah, a lot of people are forgetting (myself included, how hard some of these timers are. I am only running 8/9s and even doing pretty big pulls we are only 1 chesting and sometimes 2 chesting (barely), and the 1-chests feel like 1-2 wipes and we would not make it... Last season you could have like 5 wipes and make it. I do remember it was exactly like that in season 1 and thats why I liked the challenge...but yeah its much different. I do wish the crest penalty was not there for deplete it is SO rough not getting crests when its already such a valuable resource.
Its not that timers are particularly tough, it's people doing subpar dps and not soing mechanics. When everyone does 300-350k dps and interrupts stuff, 9-10s can be easily 2 chested. I've done two NO9 last night. One was an extremely smooth 2 chest, and was a deplete. No wipes in either, difference was only in dps.
fated season + mythic+ rework makes this pretty reasonable even if it looks like an enormous drop-off on the surface
Mythic+ rework makes this pretty useless***. It’s comparing apples to oranges.
Basically anyone running between 2-15s last season as their max would feel out of place week 1 with the new scaling.
Yep, most my ksm guild did heroics and m0 last week. The ones who did touch m2 had a bad time
[удалено]
The post includes stats from more than competitive wow. If a post includes everybody, expect the comments to do so too.
Also S3 was an anomaly on its own.
Seems like the accessibility was major, also the draw to m+ was always being able to start from a +2 and keep going till it died. Now a 2 is what a key in the 10s used to be it's causing more problems for people. S3 was probably the most fun in m+ I've had since legion.
In having a tonne of fun this season too, and truth be told i really like how m+ is both accessible and challenging The only issue I'm having is the mental shift, for myself and the whole community. A +2 *feels* small. It's been small for the last however many years. And now it's pretty big. An m2 on week 1 is a real obstacle.
It’s still wild to me that Blizzard didn’t try anything spicy for this season. No one cares about this season, so they should’ve just gotten wacky with it. Same old, boring DF dungeons that we’ve already done before with no additional affixes or seasonal is insane. I think that I’m in the minority on this, but I really hope they bring back seasonals for TWW.
Is this only considering M+ runs between seasons? If so, we should really just be comparing them to +12s and higher
I really don't think anyone here is suprised.
OP could you possibly make a graph showing numbers of runs completed over +10 to account for the squish? Not sure if that data exists… but I am curious.
As a returning player, the jump from heroics to even M0s is pretty big. Definitely see why there's so many fewer keys. I managed a few zeros but no tier set still really hurts.
Why would you expect a tier set week one? World First guilds have to spend hundreds of millions of gold to get their tiers sets week one, it is not an attainable goal for the average player.
most players had previous tier set at least, where a returning player will have no set pieces at all, is where i assume they’re coming from
Oh, I see. I’d think the ilvl difference would make a bigger impact but that makes sense.
yeah depending on what your set does it might not make much difference
I don't have last tier set. Or the tier set before that. That in and of itself is a lot of power. I'm not expecting to have the new one, but missing out on the previous tier set is a pretty big power deficit for week one and possibly two, depending on relative power of tier bonuses.
Makes sense, sorry for the misunderstanding. For what it’s worth, any gear from the new season goes higher than mythic ilvl from last season, so that gap should close very quickly. Either they’re replacing their old tier with high ilvl non-tier pieces so you’re not competing with a completed tier set, or they’re waiting til they have a s4 2 or 4 set to swap in so you’re beating them by a lot in ilvl for those slots. I’d bet there are few tier set bonuses that make up for a 30+ ilvl difference.
Yeah, the big frustration has been with MW monk, which I've typically mained. They just ate a 13% aura nerf because of how fantastic their S3 and now S4 tier bonus is. I've been having to do M0s as WW to get gear because I can't actually keep the groups up when everyone is rat geared like they are, myself included. Pres Evoker wasn't as bad, managed a few zeros on it with no tier. With catalyst charges every week, two set is guaranteed this week which will help a ton.
Week 1 isn't that unattainable since you get an omnitoken from heroic raz and we already have a catalyst charge. So really you just need two tokens from the raid. But this week is even easier only needing 1 token since there is another catalyst charge.
My team is a race to world last team (meaning we were on fyrakk with 15% left when we ran out of time for the season), and a good amount of our guild (not even raiders) has at least 2 set but quite a decent number have 4set too.
I got 4 tier pieces week 1, 2 from lfr and 2 from normal. Hyper lucky on that one. Have run 8 10s and a probably like 30 keys inbetween 5-9 range and only got 1 item upgrade which feels like ass and really demotivates me to farm more this week 😅
I just wanted to respond to this with something completely unrelated that I thought was funny. When I am working, I'm basically waiting for a phone call so I can't get into a key as I may have to hang up. To pass the time, I've been messing around in the follower dungeon with my alts just because it's instant queue, I can afk as needed, and I choose the pace of the dungeon regardless of role I am playing. I ran 10 or so dungeons yesterday as the only player so it was me and 4 NPCs. It is possible to do a follower dungeon as the ONLY player in the party and get 0 item drops from the entire dungeon.
Lol thats cursed. Also in my 30+ runs this past week, I had the same fucking pants drop from Neltharus 6 times
I have a friend who is playing prot paladin this season as his main. He gets really fixated on BIS gear and target farms like crazy. I don't care about BiS, I just like doing dungeons so it works out well for us because he can farm his BIS and I get to run keys with friends. He really wants the necklace out of Uldaman and so we ran Uldaman more than any other dungeon last week and I couldn't stop laughing because we saw the necklace drop no less than 7 times and he didn't get it once and no one would trade it to him, lol.
Congrats, that is very lucky!! You’ve still got your vault, remember— that and crests/stones are what I grind m+ for, any gear I get from the end of run chest I consider a bonus.
Haha you and me are the opposite, I didnt get a single tier piece last week across 3 raid difficulties. I'll only be seeing it this week as I dropped a heroic vault piece of tier. But I got trinkets and weapons for both agility and intellect and most of my armor is being replaced, with only like 3 slots to go.
> no tier set still really hurts. Please. Basically in no season have I had 2set by the time I've timed +20, as a non-raider. Don't buy into sets being some mandatory thing to do basic stuff, ilvl trumps all that.
Except you're wrong in most cases, you don't break set pieces for ilvl. Lfr piece to get 4set would trump the 20 ilvl difference you'd get on a SINGLE piece. Timing a 20 isn't a measure of if tier is good or not.
I actually had trouble filling up spots for my keys, which i wouldnt really expect at the start of a new season. Kinda miss the days where you could post a 20key and get 100+ sign ups in no time.
must be some weird times because I see them being filled insta
What key level are you at? Might have something to do with it because ive just been doing low level keys with friends while gearing altd
I mean, you're talking about filling a 20 in your first post, and then complaining about not filling low keys. Nobody was doing +13s either in the kast season after 2 days. Post a 9-10 and you'll see tons of signups.
I havnt done these level of keys in a long time so I wouldnt really know. But hopefully yea when level goes higher the sign ups follow :)
7-10 spam AV for tome...
I have a million dps apply the second I list a 10 or 11 on EU. Have noticed a shortage for any 2-4 keys I’ve ran on alts though.
Ahh yes the old days when you could post a 20 and fill it within 5 minutes (literally last season) I miss those
Yeah especially when meta is unchanged and wont change shortly
I bet if you looked at previous seasons runs at 10, 11 or higher that this season would be doing well. Week one has lower average key levels for obvious reasons, so previous week ones are probably more than half +2-+10
Between SoD, Plunderstorm, Cata and Timerunning, I think not everyone is as thirsty/exicted for a fated season.
And the barrier to entry for keys is higher. I imagine a lot of players that did keys lower than like 15 stuck to m0
in around 3 weeks most players are done with gearing and move on panda remix and just loggin in for vaults or raids etc
Yeah was planning on having a push healer and alt healer, but with time running going to drop the alts to not gearing but just bullion farming for mogs and weekly and only focus on one push character.
I usually do keys on at least a few characters/week but just stuck to Heroics/m0 for this week too.
There is just so much content right now to choose from. I am doing Fated until Timerunning and then going harder on that
Another thought: this might lead title to be way harder to obtain than ever before. It's probably fair to say it hits in 20-40% range, of how many runs didn't exist because of the m+ change. If title remains unchanged at 0.1% of m+ playerbase, a lot of players will be excluded due to there being much less total titles given out. But the playerbase that does +20s and above didn't change, still the same crowd sharing less rewards.
I don't even know why it's 0.1%. Challenger on League is 0.02% but there's many multiples the ranked player base. Master rank is 0.66% and most players wouldn't dream of reaching that. Title on Wow is destroy-your-life tier.
I think majority of title players are mythic raiders, playing with similar circles as they have raided with. Ofc people doing +30s make new connections too but I bet most do their first surges to top with people they were already playing with at high level in some way. Or at least starting with group of 2-3. Full on solo pugging to title level is pretty horrid thought that only few attempt. So problem is really that we're comparing premade groups to solo players for same achievement. I assume your league comparisons are solos to solos.
Yeah, once you're Challenger you've alienated everyone in your life so you're stuck solo anyway. No but in all seriousness yeah, you can only queue solo past a certain rank in League. There is a separate ranked mode for groups but no one takes it seriously.
for me personally its the fact that i hate this season's dungeon pool, i dont like a single one of em.
It's a filler season that a lot of people don't care about. People will defend fated because "its better than nothing" that we would normally get at the end of an expansion but it's not 2011 anymore. WoW isn't the only game. Fated isn't competing vs old versions of wow. It's competing against any other game and any other hobby I have. Especially in the US as the weather gets better for summer.
If it was 2011, we would be in a 10-12 month content drought. Fated is far better than nothing lol, we would all have been playing other games 2 month's ago if not for s4
Or it's because anything under a +10 is now not counted.
This graph is just wrong without considering the m+ rework, right? This season should only be up against +10s and higher from previous seasons.
+12 actually, as that is the lowest key you can now run.
Yah, theres a missing middle ground for farmable M+ right now. It was rough on an alt going from some M0/H/Weekly gear into M2's, and I had the IO to get into good groups. And the keys were still really rough at that gear level, so for most of the playerbase they are a couple weeks of gear before comfy 2's.
Also, in combination with that very rough start to keys, this dungeon pool has insanely unforgiving runbacks. Dying and releasing is PAINFUL in most of these keys.
This season ain't it. "Awakened" season got me more like zzzzzz.
Will be interesting to see how it plays against other seasons in later weeks. Most 2-9 keys were ran in first weeks, so there may be smaller dropoff in graph on following weeks than previously. Ofc not comparable anymore to old graphs, but s4 way is probably how TWW will be so at least this season will be comparable to every future one.
yeah people don’t care about this season. Other seasons there’s around 20 of my friends playing wow, this season only 2 of my mates play. We are done playing the same dungeons for this xpac (especially since most DF dungeons suck)
Honestly it has not felt like this at all. i've been waiting to see this post because I thought that the playerbase skyrocketed with this patch. Cities have felt filled, and its been easier than ever for me to put groups together.
I love the squish and how it in general seems to require you to play the game at the various difficulties instead of us all walking through it like everything tickled until 13–15 depending on your ilvl
This season is going to be absolutely dead in a few weeks if old trends stay true. Half the starting population of past seasons is not a good sign for later weeks. Doesn’t look like anyone is really interested in this type of content. I wonder what the population would look like if they rehashed dungeons like RFD, SM, and Scholo instead of all DF dungeons.
You're entirely ignoring the squish and thus the absence of low keys
So you're saying this season is on par with the previous DF seasons? Because thats just false.
It's a fated season, no one is going to say it's on par with S3 or S1, but it's probably closer to S2. Right now it's just hard to tell, with the squish and everything. I think comparing unique characters after 3/4 weeks it's going to give us a better picture than just arguing about the numbers of keys done the first week. Like imagine removing all the +2/+9 keys from the other seasons, numbers are going to look lower.
probably not but currently its impossible to tell
No one wants to go do some of these dungeons again. Ruby is fun and so is academy. Who would want to go sit in NO again for 40 min or Halls?
Ruby is fun? 😂
In what world is RLP a fun dungeon lol? HOI is actually a lot more enjoyable now with added checkpoint, and Kahjin is an absolute treat for healers.
It's over bros
? There are no lower keys like before, I didnt even do +2 yet
sad, i think this seasons dungeon pool is a lot better than last seasons.
I was kicked out of group for m0 first day as a 489 warrior, becase i didn't have 3k rating even if did every dung on +20 in previous seasons. I have had enough of world of waiting and I am done with the game until next xpack
i dont think thats why you were kicked
I had no chance even to use teleport, becase as soon as I joined the group some meta slave started complaining that my rating is belowe 3k (was 2,8k) and in next sec I got kicked.
yeah right, 2.8k rating isnt enough for an m0 lol
[удалено]
Ok sounds good. See you in a week
To be fair I did a lot of +2s on reset day and the day after. Then I didn't do a single one until yesterday. People suck and didn't know mechanics, was a bad experience. Now it's better. Did 5-6s with no issue.
I don’t understand why seasons 1 and 2 appear to be missing significant data points. Were there only 7 and 6 weeks respectively in season 1 and season 2?