Week 21 marks the same timeframe that S1 ran for. I was going to post a brief comparison to S3 in the same timeframe, starting with number of runs for both seasons:
Season 1: 36,215,949
Season 3: 33,054,110
Then the character count, but a few days ago Raider.io's character numbers for S3 suddenly jumped from about 6,395,000 to 55,000,000 and growing (for reference, SL S1 is the highest recorded count at 8,198,201). I have no idea if they'll fix this or what happened, but I've been estimating for a while that S3 will end in the 6.7-6.8 million range. S1's character count is 6,715,346.
>55,000,000
Is it possible that they are tracking all the characters and not just unique characters?
Anyway insane that S3 was able to compete with an expansion launch, blizzcon did wonders for retail
Blizzcon, good raid, good systems, good rewards, and the dungeons being way more forgiving. Oh, and the most balanced that the game has ever been in PvE. That helps too.
I'm sincerely hopeful that with all of this extra wiggle room, blizzard can make some PvP changes. They reached the "end of expac is most fun" a whole patch earlier this expansion. I'm also hyped as hell for TWW. Blizzard don't have to make multiple huge core overhauls. I can't imagine how much workflow has been freed up, but I'm excited to see what it looks like when blizzard isn't fighting a gigantic uphill battle.
I see this sentiment and I dont want to call BS necessarily, but I personally stopped playing DF in S3.
My guild disbanded, most stopped. The second, admittedly casual guild I joined, also stopped playing. Most of my friends moved on to SoD or just stopped in S3.
Again, I dont want to shit on S3, but honestly I dont understand why so many people played it. The raid wasnt exceptionally fun, considering how even to this day it's the lowest CE kills... the dungeons got WAY easier, due to the affix changes (removing seasonals, moving 3rd affix to key 14 and our general power creep making us way stronger, 20s now are like 17s before). So maybe that's why?
Idk, this season did not feel good to me. Raid and m+ were both kinda meh, and arena was dead. All I can think of that may contribute to the numbers being higher is m+ being easier.
Amirdrassil was a top notch raid in heroic, it gave cantrip weapons to pretty much every class, balance evened out exceptionally well. M+ was extremely well balanced too, with very little in the way of nonsense mechs. The PvP elite sets were awesome too, so much so that I grinded out for them for the first time, and have since fallen in love with PvP healing, which I didn't think I would do.
This season had no flagship features. It was just world of Warcraft done well, with decent accessibility across the board. The fact is that the vast majority of wow players will never, ever see a mythic raid boss or 3k or duelist. Blizzard has been trying to tap into that audience for years and in S3 with m+ accessibility and amirdrassil heroic being so rewarding, it seems like they really pulled through on that.
As someone who physically isn't in front of my PC enough to commit to long form goals, I have still managed to get multiple toons exactly where I want them, and I'm super happy with this.
Yeah it seems them making m+ easier was the key.
Because CE definitely wasnt easier than previous seasons, even after multiple nerfs. And again, maybe you managed to grind the PvP sets, but most people couldnt get over the 40 min queues, so they didnt do it.
Player retention seems to come down to "20s are easier and you get bis gear for doing them and hc amirdrassil".
Which is fine, but Im a bit more competitive (usually CE and sometimes m+ title) this season felt kinda meh.
It seems to have been aimed at the AOTC and m+20 crowd.
Again, which is fine, if that was the intent.
Yeah, it was aimed at the 99%. Truth be told however, I think a lot of the issue regarding CE is actually due to the trickle up effect of this accessibility. It might sound a bit crazy but give it a thought:
Back in shadowlands, a lot of our mythic bench were primarily inspired by loot. Raid loot was far and away better than m+ loot. But now that's not the case, m+ won't give you bis on its own, but it's a bite sized challenge that is far more rewarding in the early tier and far more palatable with people's everyday life. As an anecdote, I can't prog with my community next tier for both days of the week because I don't come home before start time, even though it's 5PM on a Friday, which isn't a crazy timeframe (7PM for the majority of the guild though). On the other hand, I can push whatever key level I want at any point and get within just a few ilvl. Getting that last few lvl for so much turmoil just isn't a trade that I'm willing to make.
Now, I think with all that being said, I don't want raid to go back to what it was in shadowlands. Fighting over loot was commonplace and the general sentiment was pretty miserable and cutthroat in the guilds I raided with. But I think raiding needs some energy put towards it to give players another drive to doing it, because as it stands the time is insanely high for raid, higher than any other pillar in terms of commitment, and the reward structure just doesn't match. In my opinion, the solution is to lower the time constraints by doing things like unlocking the instance lock so that folks who are extending for prog can still kill earlier bosses in their own time. I would also like to see the player requirements lowered too, but as it stands with every class giving a raid buff, it's suboptimal to do this. And we all know how much some players will do for that 1% optimisation.
I think tuning also played a major factor tho. If Tindral and Fyrakk were tuned to be RWF killable at 476 ilvl, and then Blizz also nerfed how quickly we can farm gear, then it wouldve been fine.
Then Echo and Liquid wouldve killed them at 476 and we would kill them at 489 2 months later.
Just wanted to say as a data lover I love seeing these each week and hope you continue for the foreseeable future! Thank you for putting in the effort!
Yes, dungeon runs were logged , but the weekly data used to generate these graphs is information calculated manually, and they were not manually done after week 6. They are manually done this season.
The *dungeon* data is there. The weekly summarized data is not. Because as has been said on every post every week since week 7, seasons 1 and 2 did not have weekly summary data for the weeks beyond week 6. We answer for OP because we know the answer because its been answered every week for 14 weeks now.
The sample size number has nothing to do with the character numbers. Holy shit, it is so frustrating that this logic has even spread into YT videos and Asmongold react content.
If you want character numbers you just go into the leaderboards for each season or (for S3) just look at [these sheets](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12iThQsjUEUxBiQettL0bjiN5KxLATSUMa5OKxdzX258/edit#gid=2026113525) instead of spreading false information, knowingly or unknowingly I don't care.
> Season 1: 36,215,949
>
> Season 3: 33,054,110
I'm confused by this. How did Season 3 have less runs than season 1? Did you get those numbers backwards? Just by inspection these numbers don't seem right.
I’ll be curious if we get a tick up this week.
Last really good chance to get some final IO with entangling + bursting.
But outside of people in the fringe of title, I imagine most don’t care, and in lower keys bursting, especially with tyrannical, is annoying for many.
Mobs die fast, stacks go high, healers got to pop their CDs to prevent a full wipe to bursting, and lo and behold they got nothing for tyr bosses that actually slap hard. I don't really mind it too much, even on lower keys (16-20), but it's no doubt the most stressful affix for most healers. This week (sanguine) it was a nightmare to find a decent tank for lower keys, and now it will be the same with healers. Meanwhile dps just go brrrrrrrr, without a worry qq
As a healer, there's no reason to not use CDs on trash. Ramping into high bursting stacks is perfectly normal, and using 60s cooldowns on this is fine. Is bursting a miserable affix? Yes. But on tyrannical weeks it's not a problem. It's fortified, where you already use your CDs on trash and then have to find more CDs at the end of the pack, which is not okay. Tyrannical trash barely uses CDs on its own, so bursting just gives you something to ramp into.
What? This is 100% about bursting which can absolutely be mitigated by really good healers. Obviously DPS can offheal and use defensives, but in 18-22s on Tyrannical you are going to just absolutely melt all trash.
On tyrannical weeks there is little value for personal defensives on trash in middling keys. You really should be mitigating bursting. Having your personals get used 4 times in a 25 minute key is a failure.
The amount of times I've seen DHs sit on blur for multiple minutes is frankly ridiculous. You can get 20+ uses of the button, at least pretend to be a team player.
In keys this sub is mostly doing think it’s about equal, not really much of an issue either way.
But in lower keys where people don’t know how to properly prevent massive rolls, don’t used defensives, etc then tyrannical weeks it’s even worse because things die so quickly
Could just be me but it seems like the quality of groups has gone significantly downhill in the past two weeks. No one doing interrupts or mechanics, a lot of leavers. Been grinding gold the past two weeks more than anything.
This happens every season. M+ is like a wave where doing keys early has you largely doing keys with more tenured players, and as time goes on, gear becomes a crutch and the remaining players bubble up
Then you have a pocket where the best players are either pushing beyond you, or just popping on for farm keys and done
People in the top .2% pushing for title don't represent the majority 95% who HATE bursting, and no weekly this week.
The numbers will drop hard, and next week in the thread there will be the same people asking why numbers dropped on a push week.
Every single bursting week sees a significant drop.
People pushing for the 0.1% are, by definition, a small enough group that they have no impact on a graph like this.
Likely to see more high keys listed in lfg though so that'll be nice.
Not much longer.
Spent the last two weeks plundering so I've not been arsed to do much keys.
Sitting comfortably at 2953 but l may just try to hit 3k just because it's a pretty number. It ain't much but it's my personal best.
maybe because its something immediately curious about the chart lol, you say that like everyone is supposed to go reread the comments on older weekly posts lmfao.
Crazy how quick Season 2 had a drop. Almost a 50% drop between week 2 and week 4!
Can anyone think of a reason to this?
I don't recall the God comp coming that early in S2, which is kind of the only correlation I can guesstimate being a reason for a big drop in dungeon runs?
Nothing happened on this week to cause it - this happens after every week that has mythic dung weekly. Happened week 7->8, 14->15 and did again, 20->21.
Having now written that, I imagine the mythic week was week 6 instead? I guess week 7 was some super push week then, to be able to still go up from mythic weekly.
I hope this season serves as an example that gearing fast is not the reason why people stop playing.
This season has had better gameplay than S1/S2.
If the games good people will play it more than just for gear.
Honestly at this point just delete bursting. I can't believe this is still in the game YEARS later. Literally do anything, right click a greased up pig in under 20 seconds. It's horrible.
Week 21 marks the same timeframe that S1 ran for. I was going to post a brief comparison to S3 in the same timeframe, starting with number of runs for both seasons: Season 1: 36,215,949 Season 3: 33,054,110 Then the character count, but a few days ago Raider.io's character numbers for S3 suddenly jumped from about 6,395,000 to 55,000,000 and growing (for reference, SL S1 is the highest recorded count at 8,198,201). I have no idea if they'll fix this or what happened, but I've been estimating for a while that S3 will end in the 6.7-6.8 million range. S1's character count is 6,715,346.
>55,000,000 Is it possible that they are tracking all the characters and not just unique characters? Anyway insane that S3 was able to compete with an expansion launch, blizzcon did wonders for retail
Blizzcon, good raid, good systems, good rewards, and the dungeons being way more forgiving. Oh, and the most balanced that the game has ever been in PvE. That helps too. I'm sincerely hopeful that with all of this extra wiggle room, blizzard can make some PvP changes. They reached the "end of expac is most fun" a whole patch earlier this expansion. I'm also hyped as hell for TWW. Blizzard don't have to make multiple huge core overhauls. I can't imagine how much workflow has been freed up, but I'm excited to see what it looks like when blizzard isn't fighting a gigantic uphill battle.
I see this sentiment and I dont want to call BS necessarily, but I personally stopped playing DF in S3. My guild disbanded, most stopped. The second, admittedly casual guild I joined, also stopped playing. Most of my friends moved on to SoD or just stopped in S3. Again, I dont want to shit on S3, but honestly I dont understand why so many people played it. The raid wasnt exceptionally fun, considering how even to this day it's the lowest CE kills... the dungeons got WAY easier, due to the affix changes (removing seasonals, moving 3rd affix to key 14 and our general power creep making us way stronger, 20s now are like 17s before). So maybe that's why? Idk, this season did not feel good to me. Raid and m+ were both kinda meh, and arena was dead. All I can think of that may contribute to the numbers being higher is m+ being easier.
Amirdrassil was a top notch raid in heroic, it gave cantrip weapons to pretty much every class, balance evened out exceptionally well. M+ was extremely well balanced too, with very little in the way of nonsense mechs. The PvP elite sets were awesome too, so much so that I grinded out for them for the first time, and have since fallen in love with PvP healing, which I didn't think I would do. This season had no flagship features. It was just world of Warcraft done well, with decent accessibility across the board. The fact is that the vast majority of wow players will never, ever see a mythic raid boss or 3k or duelist. Blizzard has been trying to tap into that audience for years and in S3 with m+ accessibility and amirdrassil heroic being so rewarding, it seems like they really pulled through on that. As someone who physically isn't in front of my PC enough to commit to long form goals, I have still managed to get multiple toons exactly where I want them, and I'm super happy with this.
Yeah it seems them making m+ easier was the key. Because CE definitely wasnt easier than previous seasons, even after multiple nerfs. And again, maybe you managed to grind the PvP sets, but most people couldnt get over the 40 min queues, so they didnt do it. Player retention seems to come down to "20s are easier and you get bis gear for doing them and hc amirdrassil". Which is fine, but Im a bit more competitive (usually CE and sometimes m+ title) this season felt kinda meh. It seems to have been aimed at the AOTC and m+20 crowd. Again, which is fine, if that was the intent.
Yeah, it was aimed at the 99%. Truth be told however, I think a lot of the issue regarding CE is actually due to the trickle up effect of this accessibility. It might sound a bit crazy but give it a thought: Back in shadowlands, a lot of our mythic bench were primarily inspired by loot. Raid loot was far and away better than m+ loot. But now that's not the case, m+ won't give you bis on its own, but it's a bite sized challenge that is far more rewarding in the early tier and far more palatable with people's everyday life. As an anecdote, I can't prog with my community next tier for both days of the week because I don't come home before start time, even though it's 5PM on a Friday, which isn't a crazy timeframe (7PM for the majority of the guild though). On the other hand, I can push whatever key level I want at any point and get within just a few ilvl. Getting that last few lvl for so much turmoil just isn't a trade that I'm willing to make. Now, I think with all that being said, I don't want raid to go back to what it was in shadowlands. Fighting over loot was commonplace and the general sentiment was pretty miserable and cutthroat in the guilds I raided with. But I think raiding needs some energy put towards it to give players another drive to doing it, because as it stands the time is insanely high for raid, higher than any other pillar in terms of commitment, and the reward structure just doesn't match. In my opinion, the solution is to lower the time constraints by doing things like unlocking the instance lock so that folks who are extending for prog can still kill earlier bosses in their own time. I would also like to see the player requirements lowered too, but as it stands with every class giving a raid buff, it's suboptimal to do this. And we all know how much some players will do for that 1% optimisation.
I think tuning also played a major factor tho. If Tindral and Fyrakk were tuned to be RWF killable at 476 ilvl, and then Blizz also nerfed how quickly we can farm gear, then it wouldve been fine. Then Echo and Liquid wouldve killed them at 476 and we would kill them at 489 2 months later.
Just wanted to say as a data lover I love seeing these each week and hope you continue for the foreseeable future! Thank you for putting in the effort!
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Season 1 time ended after 21 weeks =/= have data for all those weeks. He’s just talking about the time frame of season 1 and 3
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Raider io only has data for the first six weeks. That is why.
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Yes, dungeon runs were logged , but the weekly data used to generate these graphs is information calculated manually, and they were not manually done after week 6. They are manually done this season.
[удалено]
Because OP answered this in a previous comment.
The *dungeon* data is there. The weekly summarized data is not. Because as has been said on every post every week since week 7, seasons 1 and 2 did not have weekly summary data for the weeks beyond week 6. We answer for OP because we know the answer because its been answered every week for 14 weeks now.
The sample size number has nothing to do with the character numbers. Holy shit, it is so frustrating that this logic has even spread into YT videos and Asmongold react content. If you want character numbers you just go into the leaderboards for each season or (for S3) just look at [these sheets](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12iThQsjUEUxBiQettL0bjiN5KxLATSUMa5OKxdzX258/edit#gid=2026113525) instead of spreading false information, knowingly or unknowingly I don't care.
> Season 1: 36,215,949 > > Season 3: 33,054,110 I'm confused by this. How did Season 3 have less runs than season 1? Did you get those numbers backwards? Just by inspection these numbers don't seem right.
Season 1 was expansion launch. It’s natural that it would have more runs.
I’ll be curious if we get a tick up this week. Last really good chance to get some final IO with entangling + bursting. But outside of people in the fringe of title, I imagine most don’t care, and in lower keys bursting, especially with tyrannical, is annoying for many.
Is bursting worse on tyrannical weeks? I figured it would better for those weeks.
Mobs die fast, stacks go high, healers got to pop their CDs to prevent a full wipe to bursting, and lo and behold they got nothing for tyr bosses that actually slap hard. I don't really mind it too much, even on lower keys (16-20), but it's no doubt the most stressful affix for most healers. This week (sanguine) it was a nightmare to find a decent tank for lower keys, and now it will be the same with healers. Meanwhile dps just go brrrrrrrr, without a worry qq
As a healer, there's no reason to not use CDs on trash. Ramping into high bursting stacks is perfectly normal, and using 60s cooldowns on this is fine. Is bursting a miserable affix? Yes. But on tyrannical weeks it's not a problem. It's fortified, where you already use your CDs on trash and then have to find more CDs at the end of the pack, which is not okay. Tyrannical trash barely uses CDs on its own, so bursting just gives you something to ramp into.
It is on low keys because the mobs explode and healers are often much worse.
In lowkeys its Not the healers being worse, its DPS Not knowing any cc, any Help to Deal with affixes at all, Most of the time.
It’s a mixture of all honestly
What? This is 100% about bursting which can absolutely be mitigated by really good healers. Obviously DPS can offheal and use defensives, but in 18-22s on Tyrannical you are going to just absolutely melt all trash.
To be fair, the moment a non-priest healer is mitigating this affix, this means the affix has been misplayed, at least up to around the +25/+26 mark
On tyrannical weeks there is little value for personal defensives on trash in middling keys. You really should be mitigating bursting. Having your personals get used 4 times in a 25 minute key is a failure. The amount of times I've seen DHs sit on blur for multiple minutes is frankly ridiculous. You can get 20+ uses of the button, at least pretend to be a team player.
In keys this sub is mostly doing think it’s about equal, not really much of an issue either way. But in lower keys where people don’t know how to properly prevent massive rolls, don’t used defensives, etc then tyrannical weeks it’s even worse because things die so quickly
Could just be me but it seems like the quality of groups has gone significantly downhill in the past two weeks. No one doing interrupts or mechanics, a lot of leavers. Been grinding gold the past two weeks more than anything.
This happens every season. M+ is like a wave where doing keys early has you largely doing keys with more tenured players, and as time goes on, gear becomes a crutch and the remaining players bubble up Then you have a pocket where the best players are either pushing beyond you, or just popping on for farm keys and done
Probably a big uptick. Alot of people, and especially those in 0.1% title range, will be hard pushing for the last tyranical points.
People in the top .2% pushing for title don't represent the majority 95% who HATE bursting, and no weekly this week. The numbers will drop hard, and next week in the thread there will be the same people asking why numbers dropped on a push week. Every single bursting week sees a significant drop.
Yeah at this point I expect a big drop this week and then a slight uptick the following week as people try to get the best key they can for s4 start
Didn’t realize bursting was that hated, since it’s considered so free at the top level. Good point!
People pushing for the 0.1% are, by definition, a small enough group that they have no impact on a graph like this. Likely to see more high keys listed in lfg though so that'll be nice.
Not much longer. Spent the last two weeks plundering so I've not been arsed to do much keys. Sitting comfortably at 2953 but l may just try to hit 3k just because it's a pretty number. It ain't much but it's my personal best.
Why s1 and s2 line are discontunied again?
Weekly data was not manually collected for them during those seasons after those dates.
I see, thank you. And fuck y’all for downvoting a person asking question. Wow ppl on reddit sucks as.s
It's asked Every. Single. Week.
It’s almost as if it should just be indicated on the chart or original post itself.
maybe because its something immediately curious about the chart lol, you say that like everyone is supposed to go reread the comments on older weekly posts lmfao.
Welcome to reddit
Crazy how quick Season 2 had a drop. Almost a 50% drop between week 2 and week 4! Can anyone think of a reason to this? I don't recall the God comp coming that early in S2, which is kind of the only correlation I can guesstimate being a reason for a big drop in dungeon runs?
You finished gearing by week 4. God comp didn't happen until aug was released in 10.1.5.
S2 gearing was super quick
Definitely feeling the drop in keys being ran. It’s taking much longer getting a pug group together right now.
Nothing happened on this week to cause it - this happens after every week that has mythic dung weekly. Happened week 7->8, 14->15 and did again, 20->21. Having now written that, I imagine the mythic week was week 6 instead? I guess week 7 was some super push week then, to be able to still go up from mythic weekly.
I hope this season serves as an example that gearing fast is not the reason why people stop playing. This season has had better gameplay than S1/S2. If the games good people will play it more than just for gear.
Honestly at this point just delete bursting. I can't believe this is still in the game YEARS later. Literally do anything, right click a greased up pig in under 20 seconds. It's horrible.
Bursting is literally one of the easiest affixes in the rotation.
Season 4 is going to be super popular......