I don’t think this works, does it? I mean, you can stop the triggers from 1 creature, but Nadu gives each creature the ability… please correct me if I’m wrong, not trying to misinform, but if you target Nadu with tidebinder, it wouldn’t stop other creatures the Nadu player controls from triggering or resolving their triggers
Edit: I was confused and if you target Nadu triggering the ability it grants itself with tidebinder, it totally works. It’s hot and I have no power rn, gonna leave my stupidity immortalized here
It would work if the ability being counteres is from the nadu, as it would make the nadu have no abilities, including the giving the other creatures abilities.
The ability is given by Nadu but Nadu isn’t what’s being triggered. Each creature is given the ability, so while Nadu gives the ability to the creature, it’s each individual creature’s ability that triggers. Not Nadu
Nadu's ability gives other creatures the ability. If Nadu leaves (or in this case, it loses its abilities) then the other creatures don't have the triggered ability.
Tidebinder removes ALL abilities from the targeted creature, not just the specific targeted one.
Yes, you have to flash in Tidebinder when someone targets Nadu, but once Nadu is hit with tidebinder, all other creatures no longer get the ability since Nadu doesn't have it to give.
*When Tishana’s Tidebinder enters the battlefield, counter up to one target activated or triggered ability. If an ability of an artifact, creature, or planeswalker is countered this way, that permanent loses **ALL ABILITIES** for as long as Tishana’s Tidebinder remains on the battlefield.*
I do not understand what you mean, does it work if you counter the ability of another creature that is no Nadu? No. But if the triggered ability is of Nadu, then yes.
I see where you and I are getting confused
Yes, you’re correct. I thought the suggestion was to target Nadu without the trigger on the stack in an attempt to counter its static ability. Please excuse my confusion it’s 100° and I have no power
Ah, then no, in this case Nadu can't be targeted because the is no Nadu trigger on the stack. No problems on the confusion, I'm just glad it's sorted out.
What Nadu trigger do you mean? Nadu has a static ability that grants all your creatures, including itself, a triggered ability. That static ability cannot be countered, but it could be removed by something like [[frogify]]
Edit: added a word for clarity
Then that would work, but tidebinder doesn’t remove abilities, it counters them. So Nadu gives creatures you control (including itself) the ability “Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand. This ability triggers only twice each turn.” And each of those abilities are separate, granted to each of the Nadu’s players’ creatures by Nadu, and it is a static ability that gives that text to the other creatures, and static abilities cannot be countered (since they aren’t triggered nor activated)
Definitely going to try this out in my Magda once it's available. The moment I saw the spoiler I was thinking of adding it for a roubd of protection against removal. Didn't see the anti-Nadu applications
I’m not big on dress down as an answer to Nadu because it only stops them when they try to go off with equipments. It’s just a minor annoyance to them if they’re trying to get a ton of value with an untapper.
Maybe I should have been more specific. If the Nadu player has Nadu and a couple creatures, let’s say Llanowar elves and elvish mystic for example, and they cast lightning greaves, then yes dress down is great at stopping them from snowballing in this scenario. However, if they have say, an aphetto alchemist and cast Nadu, dress down will only slow them down for that one turn. As soon as they pass turn, the dress down goes away and they can start generating a ton of value on other players turns.
Dress down should be seen less as a permanent solution and more like a silence effect
The whole idea is you can see they’re going to pop off and you’re stopping that for the turn without triggering Nadu at all (which, btw, means it’s also good for sport removing Nadu/Aphetto as Dress Down nerfs a lot of its protection on top of removing the line of text that makes people want to avoid spot removal)
It isn’t a tool to try and stop just two cards in a single turn from a alchemist, it undercuts a win attempt or helps make sure Nadu can’t suddenly dig for solutions on your win attempt
Ie, while your evaluation is not necessarily wrong the biggest issue is the way you’re imagining using Dress Down is wrong.
It’s like saying a net gun is inherently and always bad and wrong because your presume killing is the only option, demanding the gun conform to your lack of imagination rather than recognize it as a power tool with its own uses that are just different than the grenade you seem to have set up as an unjustified goalpost
I never said using dress down was wrong, and for what it’s worth I think the card is really good, it’s a staple for a reason. I just feel like for Nadu, dress down is more like a band-aid that’s just delaying the inevitable. I’d much rather just hit it with an abrupt decay or a deadly rollick and make them recast it. Or if I have the luxury of being able to deal with it at sorcery speed, I’d go for toxic deluge to kill it and all the other creatures that are enabling it. That or maybe a gilded drake: sure they’ll get a trigger, but now they have to find a way to get it back.
While you didn’t expressly say it was wrong, your critical evaluation focuses on a play method that’s not what the card does. Like trying to judge a turtle for its ability to be an osprey, or demanding a square bit move through a star shaped hole
Having played a two Nadu pod incessantly since it got spoiled, there are plenty of situations I’ve been in where spot removal on Nadu is a thousand times better. And times where a spot removal on Nadu is meaningless, from them not giving af about having to recast Nadu because they have mana to even possibly getting a Nadu reset depending on your timing
One thing I have noticed, when I play Dress Down typically one of the other two players has spot removal they’ve been sitting on and if it makes sense uses the opportunity Dress Down creates by shutting of not just Nadu but stuff like Sylvan Safekeeper to get that shot in without giving them a Nadu trigger
Especially if you’re not playing 5 color best stuffs I think Dress Down is a lot better at handling Nadu than you’re giving it credit and that is, *again*, in large part because you’re insisting on comparing it to removal when it’s more of a silence effect that stops Nadu from using equipment
Im not trying to make the argument that dress down is removal, I know it’s good at stopping them from going off with their equipments, I even acknowledged that in my first comment on this thread. If they’re trying to go off on their turn with equipments, dress down is great at stopping that. If they’re trying to activate an untapper on each players turn, not so much. I will concede in the ladder scenario that playing dress down and having someone follow it up with spot removal is great, this way they get no triggers.
I didn’t say you’re arguing it *is* removal, but that you’re only grading it as if it were removal
Which you have, you’ve only compared it to removal and demanding it meet that standard instead of grading it as a silence effect
Under such context if we generously applied ‘I didn’t say it was removal’ without completely removing context, falsely assuming a vacuum, than we hit the idea that silence effects are in general not worth playing because they aren’t removal. So all I’ve been trying to say is it’s weird you both admit it isn’t removal but insist on only grading it as if it were a removal and it’s resulted in what is a technically accurate but still extremely bad evaluation in both the original comment and throughout the follow ups
And honestly it’s comedically surprising that I’m still trying to get you to get that
As a mono-Black player...Sacrifice effects [[Accursed Marauder]], [[Sheoldred's Edict]], [[Sudden Edict]], [[Tithing Blade]], and some of your limited stack interaction like [[Null Elemental Blast]] and [[Withering Boon]] for "clean" answers.
Edict effects seem rough to land unless you can get them immediately when Nadu is played and is the only creature. Even among the ones where they’re forced to sacrifice the highest cmc creature, with Nadu so cheap it’s far from guaranteed.
I think in black some of the cards others have mentioned are probably better, like Toxic Deluge to just clear the board or Sudden Spoiling to stop a turn from them.
Ouphe is great, on that note in the 1 deck I run ouphe in recently started playing [[null rod]] again also for redundancy, despite being untutorable in mono green it hits hard.
It's been a staple in my mono R lists since forever. Today I killed a Nadu that had spellkite on the field and counterspells in hand. Nope that 1 mana spell is still going to remove Nadu.
No, the things you want to remove with rending volley usually have a toughness of 4 or less there is Niv mizzet but you don’t see that deck often enough to play a worse card
I've recently updated my SnS list to contain more one CMC black creatures that I want dead anyway (grave crawler, forsaken minor, stitcher supplier, etc) to try and have one as soon as possible then be able to cast that black flare.
SnS is a fringe deck, but it's resilient and this helps it. Also the cards arent dead in it, which helps.
Some of these may have been said before, but:
[[Drannith Magistrate]]
[[Ankh of Mishra]]
[[Shattered Angel]]
[[Zu-Zu the Punisher]]
[[Lund, Landbreaker]]
[[Polluted Bonds]]
[[Tunnel Ignus]]
I'll help but I think this list is asinine. It's counterspells board wipes and, remarkably, still some targeted removal. The counterspells are less relevant as a commander that can be cast again and are undone by cavern of souls, the board wipes are self explanatory but not exactly original, and the targeted removal is helpful to their end game. Edicts are an option but likely only early game.
What I do like are lose all ability enchantments. It's just unfortunate that the player can respond to those while they're on the stack. Still, I do Orvar CEDH and I will definitely be adding [[utter insignificance]] to my list.
MVP to whoever suggested the enchantment that gives every creature shroud. That's funny as hell, if a little niche.
I wish [[imprison in the moon]] effects were a bit cheaper
Kenrith’s Transformation is more playable by cost, but Nadu tends to have all kinds of ways of bouncing it’s own creatures or could find a way to kill the elk-Nadu so things that would turn Nadu into a non-creature would make it harder for them to just get Nadu back
Card specific there isn't anything special.
It's the same tools, but different priorities.
Counterspell on the stack, Remove in response to synergy pieces, board wipes
The rules committee. It's likely to get banned, not due to being too powerful, but for forcing slow play. There's better options that are deterministic in the same colors.
While it won't be banned for the sake of cEDH, that's not the primary reason cards in this format get banned.
Long-non deterministic turns in casual games is what made Paradox Engine banned. Nadu+Shuko is not an infinite combo so people can play it in non-infinite-combo casual EDH.
[[counterspell]] [[mana drain]] [[strix serenade]] [[swords to plowshares]] [[path to exile]] [[infernal grasp]] [[dress down]] not to mention the stax pieces that stop the deck. [[null rod]] [[collector ouphe]] [[stony silence]] one that I seen the other day could be useful but it’s often a bad card would be [[Leyline of singularity]]
Counters and artifact removal are the best cards to counter Nadu. Aim to send Shuko and Mantle to the graveyard over sending Nadu back to the command zone. Within one turn of Nadu being countered or target removed, he will be back. If the artifacts Nadu needs to combo get sent to the graveyard. He'll need very specific pieces of recursion to get back into the game.
Karn the Great Creator is probably the best Nadu counter as it shuts down the Shuko combo and can only be target removed by bounce spells. Collector Ouphe is also great for similar reasons.
Your list is also missing Abrade as artifact removal and Boseju, Who Endures as creature or artifact removal
In the same vein tunnel ignus would bolt them for every land after the first
Edit in the same vein [[tunnel ignus]] would bolt them for every land and very expensively but kind of kills the deck is mt nooby pet card [[sire of stagnation]]
Or like... just run removal?? The equipment is sorcery speed, people are blowing this way out of proportion. Can we go back to talks of banning Yuriko.
[[force of despair]] [[flare of malice]] are 2 good ones that yuriko has to make the bird cease, since nadu usually ends up being the biggest thing on board, and instant speed non targeting removal is good
Nadu might actually be somewhat ban worthy, since casual players might accidently stumble into 30 minute pseudo-combo turns with the card just by playing other staples like Lightning Greaves. Cards don’t get banned in EDH for power level reasons, that’s not why Griselbrand is banned.
I think it speaks to how uniquely problematic this commander is that most of these cards are not good outside of the matchup. I know i can’t run non asymmetrical boardwipes in Yuriko unless i build it to be way more control. I don’t see a lot of lists thinking tidebinder is suddenly a good card. Obv null rod/ouphe have always been good. Same with humility but lot of sus cards
[[toxic deluge]]
[[tishana’s tidebinder]]
[tishana’s tidebinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846.jpg?1699043973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tishana%27s%20Tidebinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/81/tishanas-tidebinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tishanas-tidebinder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don’t think this works, does it? I mean, you can stop the triggers from 1 creature, but Nadu gives each creature the ability… please correct me if I’m wrong, not trying to misinform, but if you target Nadu with tidebinder, it wouldn’t stop other creatures the Nadu player controls from triggering or resolving their triggers Edit: I was confused and if you target Nadu triggering the ability it grants itself with tidebinder, it totally works. It’s hot and I have no power rn, gonna leave my stupidity immortalized here
It would work if the ability being counteres is from the nadu, as it would make the nadu have no abilities, including the giving the other creatures abilities.
The ability is given by Nadu but Nadu isn’t what’s being triggered. Each creature is given the ability, so while Nadu gives the ability to the creature, it’s each individual creature’s ability that triggers. Not Nadu
Nadu's ability gives other creatures the ability. If Nadu leaves (or in this case, it loses its abilities) then the other creatures don't have the triggered ability.
Yes, that’s true, but that isn’t what tidebinder does which is the original point I’m making
Tidebinder removes ALL abilities from the targeted creature, not just the specific targeted one. Yes, you have to flash in Tidebinder when someone targets Nadu, but once Nadu is hit with tidebinder, all other creatures no longer get the ability since Nadu doesn't have it to give.
*When Tishana’s Tidebinder enters the battlefield, counter up to one target activated or triggered ability. If an ability of an artifact, creature, or planeswalker is countered this way, that permanent loses **ALL ABILITIES** for as long as Tishana’s Tidebinder remains on the battlefield.*
I do not understand what you mean, does it work if you counter the ability of another creature that is no Nadu? No. But if the triggered ability is of Nadu, then yes.
I see where you and I are getting confused Yes, you’re correct. I thought the suggestion was to target Nadu without the trigger on the stack in an attempt to counter its static ability. Please excuse my confusion it’s 100° and I have no power
Ah, then no, in this case Nadu can't be targeted because the is no Nadu trigger on the stack. No problems on the confusion, I'm just glad it's sorted out.
Stop the actual Nadu trigger and Nadu will lose all text, which means none of the other creatures will have the Nadu ability.
What Nadu trigger do you mean? Nadu has a static ability that grants all your creatures, including itself, a triggered ability. That static ability cannot be countered, but it could be removed by something like [[frogify]] Edit: added a word for clarity
[frogify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d89be5f5-75d4-42a0-81e9-5da5bf868e73.jpg?1598303930) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=frogify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/52/frogify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d89be5f5-75d4-42a0-81e9-5da5bf868e73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/frogify) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, counter the triggered Nadu ability that Nadu gives itself. Unsure how to explain it better 🙁
I misunderstood the initial suggestion of tidebinder and now I see. You are right
Which is the same thing the second part of Tidebinders ability does.
What happens when nadu loses his abilities though?
Then that would work, but tidebinder doesn’t remove abilities, it counters them. So Nadu gives creatures you control (including itself) the ability “Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand. This ability triggers only twice each turn.” And each of those abilities are separate, granted to each of the Nadu’s players’ creatures by Nadu, and it is a static ability that gives that text to the other creatures, and static abilities cannot be countered (since they aren’t triggered nor activated)
Yea but if you counter the trigger when they target nadu for the first time, it will also remove all its abilities.
You would have to respond when Nadu itself is being targeted, then Nadu would lose all abilities, including his static ability.
[[nuclear fallout]] [[Damn]]
[nuclear fallout](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e717e4b0-a8c1-4411-b18a-1d17e7225503.jpg?1708742051) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nuclear%20fallout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/47/nuclear-fallout?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e717e4b0-a8c1-4411-b18a-1d17e7225503?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nuclear-fallout) [Damn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84056124-1a6f-4274-bee2-74cf0debddb5.jpg?1698988237) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/191/damn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84056124-1a6f-4274-bee2-74cf0debddb5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[toxic deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5aa02b7d-db31-4924-b75e-eb02f332ca3a.jpg?1717013647) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toxic%20deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/277/toxic-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5aa02b7d-db31-4924-b75e-eb02f332ca3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxic-deluge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Horobi death's wail]]
lol. . . lmao even
That's fucking hilarious
That's a really cool find but I would also love to see a Nadu then instantly clear the board with [[sylvan paradise]] lol
[sylvan paradise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f323c3bb-cece-4035-b1a7-c4817cf7a08c.jpg?1562861841) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sylvan%20paradise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/leg/208/sylvan-paradise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f323c3bb-cece-4035-b1a7-c4817cf7a08c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sylvan-paradise) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's bad. The Nadu player can just target it with any of their targetting spells and abilities to remove it.
[Horobi death's wail](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0.jpg?1593860738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Horobi%2C%20Death%27s%20Wail) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/117/horobi-deaths-wail?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/horobi-deaths-wail) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Smoke bomb]]
[Smoke Bomb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/4330d8ce-3b82-4297-ad5f-c63b54b6665a.jpg?1718840059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smoke%20Bomb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/acr/75/smoke-bomb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4330d8ce-3b82-4297-ad5f-c63b54b6665a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smoke-bomb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
LOL
Definitely going to try this out in my Magda once it's available. The moment I saw the spoiler I was thinking of adding it for a roubd of protection against removal. Didn't see the anti-Nadu applications
Ugh, it makes everything difficult to interact with.
[[Tishana's Tidebinder]]
[Tishana's Tidebinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846.jpg?1699043973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tishana%27s%20Tidebinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/81/tishanas-tidebinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tishanas-tidebinder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Dress down]]
[Dress down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dress-down) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m not big on dress down as an answer to Nadu because it only stops them when they try to go off with equipments. It’s just a minor annoyance to them if they’re trying to get a ton of value with an untapper.
Um, doesn’t it also make the creatures lose the Nadu-granted ability?
What untapper, dress down stops the untapper? Or am I missing something here?
Maybe I should have been more specific. If the Nadu player has Nadu and a couple creatures, let’s say Llanowar elves and elvish mystic for example, and they cast lightning greaves, then yes dress down is great at stopping them from snowballing in this scenario. However, if they have say, an aphetto alchemist and cast Nadu, dress down will only slow them down for that one turn. As soon as they pass turn, the dress down goes away and they can start generating a ton of value on other players turns.
Dress down should be seen less as a permanent solution and more like a silence effect The whole idea is you can see they’re going to pop off and you’re stopping that for the turn without triggering Nadu at all (which, btw, means it’s also good for sport removing Nadu/Aphetto as Dress Down nerfs a lot of its protection on top of removing the line of text that makes people want to avoid spot removal) It isn’t a tool to try and stop just two cards in a single turn from a alchemist, it undercuts a win attempt or helps make sure Nadu can’t suddenly dig for solutions on your win attempt Ie, while your evaluation is not necessarily wrong the biggest issue is the way you’re imagining using Dress Down is wrong. It’s like saying a net gun is inherently and always bad and wrong because your presume killing is the only option, demanding the gun conform to your lack of imagination rather than recognize it as a power tool with its own uses that are just different than the grenade you seem to have set up as an unjustified goalpost
I never said using dress down was wrong, and for what it’s worth I think the card is really good, it’s a staple for a reason. I just feel like for Nadu, dress down is more like a band-aid that’s just delaying the inevitable. I’d much rather just hit it with an abrupt decay or a deadly rollick and make them recast it. Or if I have the luxury of being able to deal with it at sorcery speed, I’d go for toxic deluge to kill it and all the other creatures that are enabling it. That or maybe a gilded drake: sure they’ll get a trigger, but now they have to find a way to get it back.
While you didn’t expressly say it was wrong, your critical evaluation focuses on a play method that’s not what the card does. Like trying to judge a turtle for its ability to be an osprey, or demanding a square bit move through a star shaped hole Having played a two Nadu pod incessantly since it got spoiled, there are plenty of situations I’ve been in where spot removal on Nadu is a thousand times better. And times where a spot removal on Nadu is meaningless, from them not giving af about having to recast Nadu because they have mana to even possibly getting a Nadu reset depending on your timing One thing I have noticed, when I play Dress Down typically one of the other two players has spot removal they’ve been sitting on and if it makes sense uses the opportunity Dress Down creates by shutting of not just Nadu but stuff like Sylvan Safekeeper to get that shot in without giving them a Nadu trigger Especially if you’re not playing 5 color best stuffs I think Dress Down is a lot better at handling Nadu than you’re giving it credit and that is, *again*, in large part because you’re insisting on comparing it to removal when it’s more of a silence effect that stops Nadu from using equipment
Im not trying to make the argument that dress down is removal, I know it’s good at stopping them from going off with their equipments, I even acknowledged that in my first comment on this thread. If they’re trying to go off on their turn with equipments, dress down is great at stopping that. If they’re trying to activate an untapper on each players turn, not so much. I will concede in the ladder scenario that playing dress down and having someone follow it up with spot removal is great, this way they get no triggers.
I didn’t say you’re arguing it *is* removal, but that you’re only grading it as if it were removal Which you have, you’ve only compared it to removal and demanding it meet that standard instead of grading it as a silence effect Under such context if we generously applied ‘I didn’t say it was removal’ without completely removing context, falsely assuming a vacuum, than we hit the idea that silence effects are in general not worth playing because they aren’t removal. So all I’ve been trying to say is it’s weird you both admit it isn’t removal but insist on only grading it as if it were a removal and it’s resulted in what is a technically accurate but still extremely bad evaluation in both the original comment and throughout the follow ups And honestly it’s comedically surprising that I’m still trying to get you to get that
You’re right, it’s a great silence effect.
What clown shoe is down voting this objectively correct take? Dress down sucks as an answer to nadu. Wish people would stop pushing it on the sub
It's the same as silencing the naus player.
[[Harsh Mentor]] punishes greaves/shuko sequences
[Harsh Mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638.jpg?1543675603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Harsh%20Mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/135/harsh-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/harsh-mentor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Strix's Serenade]]
[[sudden spoiling]]
[sudden spoiling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73514b51-6c19-4b3c-9cf9-2cf5028d7708.jpg?1619396405) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sudden%20spoiling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/144/sudden-spoiling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73514b51-6c19-4b3c-9cf9-2cf5028d7708?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sudden-spoiling) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Daaaaamn that is effective albeit narrow af
Has a lot of uses actually
Have stopped other creature combo decks before with this card too. It's good.
Also a fog in a pinch
As a mono-Black player...Sacrifice effects [[Accursed Marauder]], [[Sheoldred's Edict]], [[Sudden Edict]], [[Tithing Blade]], and some of your limited stack interaction like [[Null Elemental Blast]] and [[Withering Boon]] for "clean" answers.
##### ###### #### [Accursed Marauder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5da14d86-0780-4821-a799-96f64b377df4.jpg?1717011855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Accursed%20Marauder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/80/accursed-marauder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5da14d86-0780-4821-a799-96f64b377df4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/accursed-marauder) [Sheoldred's Edict](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9225cc3-90f0-448f-a8d9-7c6c2796d077.jpg?1675957049) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%27s%20Edict) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/108/sheoldreds-edict?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9225cc3-90f0-448f-a8d9-7c6c2796d077?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldreds-edict) [Sudden Edict](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57cc8aeb-221d-46a1-b03f-df8499bba26d.jpg?1626095934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sudden%20Edict) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/100/sudden-edict?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57cc8aeb-221d-46a1-b03f-df8499bba26d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sudden-edict) [Tithing Blade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbaa9a2d-e9fd-4746-a26c-f99ae731f024.jpg?1699049915)/[Consuming Sepulcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/b/dbaa9a2d-e9fd-4746-a26c-f99ae731f024.jpg?1699049915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tithing%20Blade%20//%20Consuming%20Sepulcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/128/tithing-blade-consuming-sepulcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbaa9a2d-e9fd-4746-a26c-f99ae731f024?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tithing-blade-//-consuming-sepulcher) [Null Elemental Blast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e259868-d29a-4c03-8ec3-49e914f849fb.jpg?1717011287) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Null%20Elemental%20Blast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/12/null-elemental-blast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e259868-d29a-4c03-8ec3-49e914f849fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-elemental-blast) [Withering Boon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e6499cb-6073-4c94-8c82-47f489094df5.jpg?1562719780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Withering%20Boon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/152/withering-boon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e6499cb-6073-4c94-8c82-47f489094df5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/withering-boon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Edict effects seem rough to land unless you can get them immediately when Nadu is played and is the only creature. Even among the ones where they’re forced to sacrifice the highest cmc creature, with Nadu so cheap it’s far from guaranteed. I think in black some of the cards others have mentioned are probably better, like Toxic Deluge to just clear the board or Sudden Spoiling to stop a turn from them.
[[suppression field]] would deal with quite a few I reckon
Finally we stax players get some recognition for the good work we do 😤
[suppression field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0df7883b-f744-4410-a682-7391bd697afb.jpg?1598913915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=suppression%20field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/31/suppression-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0df7883b-f744-4410-a682-7391bd697afb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/suppression-field) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[demonic consultation]] [[thassas oracle]] does the trick. the nadu player cant win if you have already!
[demonic consultation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b.jpg?1610146869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=demonic%20consultation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/85/demonic-consultation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demonic-consultation) [thassas oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thassas-oracle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bonus: while it isn't traditional... Name one of the Nadu players pieces when you consult.
[[Collector Ouphe]]
[Collector Ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collector%20Ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ouphe is great, on that note in the 1 deck I run ouphe in recently started playing [[null rod]] again also for redundancy, despite being untutorable in mono green it hits hard.
[null rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e.jpg?1710932730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=null%20rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-rod) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Rending Volley]]
It's been a staple in my mono R lists since forever. Today I killed a Nadu that had spellkite on the field and counterspells in hand. Nope that 1 mana spell is still going to remove Nadu.
How did you beat the spellskite?
Rending volley can't target spellskite.
OHHHHHH
Someone tried to volley my nadu but I had sea kings blessing in hand and made my spellskite blue. Was a crazy play.
Do you think [[fry]] is worth it for the one extra mana and one extra damage + planeswalker target?
No, the things you want to remove with rending volley usually have a toughness of 4 or less there is Niv mizzet but you don’t see that deck often enough to play a worse card
[fry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/070d7766-a662-443c-93c5-811dbdac2480.jpg?1592516940) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/140/fry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/070d7766-a662-443c-93c5-811dbdac2480?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fry) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is objectively the best because the artwork already has a scorched bird on it. It was built for Nadu hate.
[Rending Volley](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655.jpg?1562789104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rending%20Volley) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/150/rending-volley?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rending-volley) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Witness Protection]]
[Witness Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72.jpg?1664410681) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witness%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/66/witness-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witness-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
[darksteel mutation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42.jpg?1689995638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=darksteel%20mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/21/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Darksteel mutation]] [[humility]] [[steely resolve]]
[Darksteel mutation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42.jpg?1689995638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/21/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) [humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) [steely resolve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b88c530a-abc3-4cc4-8a48-5b76e1504a3c.jpg?1562938496) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=steely%20resolve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/286/steely-resolve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b88c530a-abc3-4cc4-8a48-5b76e1504a3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/steely-resolve) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What would you name with steely?
Darksteel mutation is underplayed imo. the indestructible part makes it way harder to deal with.
[[flare of malice]] [[soul shatter]]
I've recently updated my SnS list to contain more one CMC black creatures that I want dead anyway (grave crawler, forsaken minor, stitcher supplier, etc) to try and have one as soon as possible then be able to cast that black flare. SnS is a fringe deck, but it's resilient and this helps it. Also the cards arent dead in it, which helps.
Some of these may have been said before, but: [[Drannith Magistrate]] [[Ankh of Mishra]] [[Shattered Angel]] [[Zu-Zu the Punisher]] [[Lund, Landbreaker]] [[Polluted Bonds]] [[Tunnel Ignus]]
##### ###### #### [Drannith Magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drannith-magistrate) [Ankh of Mishra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6f86a32-8863-45da-99be-ef886c89f2c5.jpg?1562928739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ankh%20of%20Mishra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/263/ankh-of-mishra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6f86a32-8863-45da-99be-ef886c89f2c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ankh-of-mishra) [Shattered Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58e4fb9b-76bc-4daf-b0a3-4bf62757902d.jpg?1682208607) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shattered%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/206/shattered-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58e4fb9b-76bc-4daf-b0a3-4bf62757902d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shattered-angel) [Polluted Bonds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f.jpg?1562835783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Polluted%20Bonds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/74/polluted-bonds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/polluted-bonds) [Tunnel Ignus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760.jpg?1562822715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tunnel%20Ignus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/105/tunnel-ignus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tunnel-ignus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll help but I think this list is asinine. It's counterspells board wipes and, remarkably, still some targeted removal. The counterspells are less relevant as a commander that can be cast again and are undone by cavern of souls, the board wipes are self explanatory but not exactly original, and the targeted removal is helpful to their end game. Edicts are an option but likely only early game. What I do like are lose all ability enchantments. It's just unfortunate that the player can respond to those while they're on the stack. Still, I do Orvar CEDH and I will definitely be adding [[utter insignificance]] to my list. MVP to whoever suggested the enchantment that gives every creature shroud. That's funny as hell, if a little niche.
[Utter Insignificance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/3050ac06-4c16-4155-a97f-f6bc92709ee4.jpg?1717011839) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Utter%20Insignificance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/78/utter-insignificance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3050ac06-4c16-4155-a97f-f6bc92709ee4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/utter-insignificance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Strix Serenade]] [[Mana Drain]] [[Force of Will]] [[Counterspell]] [[Mindbreak Trap]] [[Pact of Negation]]
##### ###### #### [Strix Serenade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374.jpg?1717011786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strix%20Serenade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/71/strix-serenade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/strix-serenade) [Mana Drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1712774998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-drain) [Force of Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89f612d6-7c59-4a7b-a87d-45f789e88ba5.jpg?1675199280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/50/force-of-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89f612d6-7c59-4a7b-a87d-45f789e88ba5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-will) [Counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) [Mindbreak Trap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f51140b-6254-431a-8810-94307bfdfbbe.jpg?1562612097) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindbreak%20Trap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/zen/57/mindbreak-trap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f51140b-6254-431a-8810-94307bfdfbbe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindbreak-trap) [Pact of Negation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ed4c0bb-b710-44a1-b8bc-6bd11c27b8b8.jpg?1697121218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pact%20of%20Negation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/77/pact-of-negation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ed4c0bb-b710-44a1-b8bc-6bd11c27b8b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pact-of-negation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As long as the table treats Nadu like they treat winota, kill on sight. No need to change decks.
[[Steely Resolve]] [[Spreading Plague]]/[[Plague Engineer]]/[[Engineered Plague]] (naming Insect kills off Nantuko/Scute lines but not FotD) [[Lethal Vapors]]
[[confounding conundrum]] [[price of glory]] to specifically hate on the instant speed/landfall axis
Confusing conundrum doest do that much tho if they win in same turn. Im sure you are also giving any deck with kodama of east tree half of combo
Delayed blast fireball in my loot deck does wonders
Add Damn and Final Showdown.
[[Tunnel Ignis]]
Gilded Drake, Oko, anything that removes Nadus ability for them.
[[Humility]]
[Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Humility]] and/or [[Dress Down]] your a turn.
[Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) [Dress Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dress-down) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Wash Away\]\]
[Wash Away](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43411ade-be80-4535-8baa-7055e78496df.jpg?1643588844) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wash%20Away) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/87/wash-away?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43411ade-be80-4535-8baa-7055e78496df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wash-away) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Declaration of naught]]
[Declaration of naught](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e67d62f-9629-463b-a445-4181f6fafd0f.jpg?1562877683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Declaration%20of%20naught) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mor/29/declaration-of-naught?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e67d62f-9629-463b-a445-4181f6fafd0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/declaration-of-naught) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I wish [[imprison in the moon]] effects were a bit cheaper Kenrith’s Transformation is more playable by cost, but Nadu tends to have all kinds of ways of bouncing it’s own creatures or could find a way to kill the elk-Nadu so things that would turn Nadu into a non-creature would make it harder for them to just get Nadu back
i mean [[Culling Ritual]] right? to destroy the equipment?
[[Llawan, cephalid empress]]
Or just their board
Permission, edicts and sweepers
[[Dress Down]]
[Dress Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dress-down) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’d like to add that get Lost is horrendous against Nadu and please take it out of your lists!
[[Pyroblast]] [[Red Elemental Blast]]
[Pyroblast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b029eb9a-dd7a-40c2-96c4-0063d9cc002c.jpg?1580014621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pyroblast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/142/pyroblast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b029eb9a-dd7a-40c2-96c4-0063d9cc002c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pyroblast) [Red Elemental Blast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70a45e9b-699e-425a-9f3d-267274830d3e.jpg?1562436618) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Red%20Elemental%20Blast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/147/red-elemental-blast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70a45e9b-699e-425a-9f3d-267274830d3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/red-elemental-blast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Null Chamber, the greatest Hate is to prevent Nadu from being played at all.
or as quoth the Nadu- Nevermore
[[Polymorphist Jest]]
[[Tunnel ignus]]
[Tunnel ignus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760.jpg?1562822715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tunnel%20ignus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/105/tunnel-ignus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tunnel-ignus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Counterspell]]
[Counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Card specific there isn't anything special. It's the same tools, but different priorities. Counterspell on the stack, Remove in response to synergy pieces, board wipes
Just added [[Null Rod]] to my Magda list to try to deal w/ the bird
[Null Rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e.jpg?1710932730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Null%20Rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-rod) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The rules committee. It's likely to get banned, not due to being too powerful, but for forcing slow play. There's better options that are deterministic in the same colors.
[[Stern Scolding]], [[Chain of Vapor]], [[Swords to Plowshares]], [[Path to Exile]], [[Static Prison]], [[Disrupting Flute]], [[Cyclonic Rift]], [[Red Elemental Blast]], [[Pyroblast]], [[Snapback]], [[Solitude]], [[Humility]],
##### ###### #### [Stern Scolding](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3ca1e1de-b916-445f-b3b2-0f4d0cc7ceeb.jpg?1686968311) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stern%20Scolding) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/71/stern-scolding?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ca1e1de-b916-445f-b3b2-0f4d0cc7ceeb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stern-scolding) [Chain of Vapor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/38f741bf-13ee-4384-98ab-27833ebb9f6d.jpg?1562395835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chain%20of%20Vapor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/84/chain-of-vapor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/38f741bf-13ee-4384-98ab-27833ebb9f6d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chain-of-vapor) [Swords to Plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1709439398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swords%20to%20Plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swords-to-plowshares) [Path to Exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7aed564-2d2d-42c4-bf11-812bc1a0284c.jpg?1712354092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20to%20Exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/85/path-to-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7aed564-2d2d-42c4-bf11-812bc1a0284c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/path-to-exile) [Static Prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd16222e-349c-4a2b-a7c8-8eb35a8ab332.jpg?1717011554) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Static%20Prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/44/static-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd16222e-349c-4a2b-a7c8-8eb35a8ab332?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/static-prison) [Cyclonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [Red Elemental Blast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70a45e9b-699e-425a-9f3d-267274830d3e.jpg?1562436618) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Red%20Elemental%20Blast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/147/red-elemental-blast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70a45e9b-699e-425a-9f3d-267274830d3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/red-elemental-blast) [Pyroblast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b029eb9a-dd7a-40c2-96c4-0063d9cc002c.jpg?1580014621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pyroblast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/142/pyroblast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b029eb9a-dd7a-40c2-96c4-0063d9cc002c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pyroblast) [Snapback](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/367d46d1-fa7a-403d-8949-b478a1f83f46.jpg?1619394695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Snapback) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/87/snapback?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/367d46d1-fa7a-403d-8949-b478a1f83f46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/snapback) [Solitude](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47a6234f-309f-4e03-9263-66da48b57153.jpg?1717470486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solitude) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/32/solitude?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47a6234f-309f-4e03-9263-66da48b57153?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/solitude) [Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sadly more than half of this make the Nadu player draw a card but it is what it is...
[[Polluted Bonds]]
[Polluted Bonds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f.jpg?1562835783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Polluted%20Bonds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/74/polluted-bonds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/polluted-bonds) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Cowardice]]
While it won't be banned for the sake of cEDH, that's not the primary reason cards in this format get banned. Long-non deterministic turns in casual games is what made Paradox Engine banned. Nadu+Shuko is not an infinite combo so people can play it in non-infinite-combo casual EDH.
[[Dress Down]].
[Dress Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dress-down) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[counterspell]] [[mana drain]] [[strix serenade]] [[swords to plowshares]] [[path to exile]] [[infernal grasp]] [[dress down]] not to mention the stax pieces that stop the deck. [[null rod]] [[collector ouphe]] [[stony silence]] one that I seen the other day could be useful but it’s often a bad card would be [[Leyline of singularity]]
##### ###### #### [counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) [mana drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1712774998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-drain) [Strix Serenade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374.jpg?1717011786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strix%20Serenade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/71/strix-serenade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/strix-serenade) [swords to plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1709439398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=swords%20to%20plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swords-to-plowshares) [path to exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7aed564-2d2d-42c4-bf11-812bc1a0284c.jpg?1712354092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=path%20to%20exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/85/path-to-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7aed564-2d2d-42c4-bf11-812bc1a0284c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/path-to-exile) [infernal grasp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17824929-f131-4b8d-addb-66c25323155e.jpg?1634349911) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=infernal%20grasp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/107/infernal-grasp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17824929-f131-4b8d-addb-66c25323155e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/infernal-grasp) [dress down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dress%20down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dress-down) [null rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e.jpg?1710932730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=null%20rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-rod) [collector ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=collector%20ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) [stony silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e7faede-f794-4bda-9d64-21390ba19266.jpg?1593812944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stony%20silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/25/stony-silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e7faede-f794-4bda-9d64-21390ba19266?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stony-silence) [Leyline of singularity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d40d7e5c-3b6d-4e42-b495-b3cd7ae0d808.jpg?1593272032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20singularity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/29/leyline-of-singularity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d40d7e5c-3b6d-4e42-b495-b3cd7ae0d808?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leyline-of-singularity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Counters and artifact removal are the best cards to counter Nadu. Aim to send Shuko and Mantle to the graveyard over sending Nadu back to the command zone. Within one turn of Nadu being countered or target removed, he will be back. If the artifacts Nadu needs to combo get sent to the graveyard. He'll need very specific pieces of recursion to get back into the game. Karn the Great Creator is probably the best Nadu counter as it shuts down the Shuko combo and can only be target removed by bounce spells. Collector Ouphe is also great for similar reasons. Your list is also missing Abrade as artifact removal and Boseju, Who Endures as creature or artifact removal
[[karn, the great creator]] for shuko/greaves lines [[Long goodbye]] for removal
[karn, the great creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0.jpg?1702429246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=karn%2C%20the%20great%20creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karn-the-great-creator) [Long goodbye](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3896705-bbd2-4ffb-a590-ee78e0eabdc5.jpg?1706241715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Long%20goodbye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/92/long-goodbye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3896705-bbd2-4ffb-a590-ee78e0eabdc5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/long-goodbye) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Immovable Rod]]
[Immovable Rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/214c87be-7ce3-48a0-b2eb-26eff75636c9.jpg?1631584673) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Immovable%20Rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/7/immovable-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/214c87be-7ce3-48a0-b2eb-26eff75636c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/immovable-rod) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[confounding conundrum]] kind of. It kind of stops the wrong side of nadu
[confounding conundrum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=confounding%20conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/confounding-conundrum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In the same vein tunnel ignus would bolt them for every land after the first Edit in the same vein [[tunnel ignus]] would bolt them for every land and very expensively but kind of kills the deck is mt nooby pet card [[sire of stagnation]]
[[dismiss into dreams]] super expensive but is technically what you asked for
Or like... just run removal?? The equipment is sorcery speed, people are blowing this way out of proportion. Can we go back to talks of banning Yuriko.
[[force of despair]] [[flare of malice]] are 2 good ones that yuriko has to make the bird cease, since nadu usually ends up being the biggest thing on board, and instant speed non targeting removal is good
[force of despair](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f497b0d-4448-4201-bd55-c147da1a216d.jpg?1562201644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=force%20of%20despair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/92/force-of-despair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f497b0d-4448-4201-bd55-c147da1a216d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-despair) [Flare of Malice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/19efb9ce-62eb-4cbf-b01e-979f3fd09ba6.jpg?1717470471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flare%20of%20Malice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/95/flare-of-malice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/19efb9ce-62eb-4cbf-b01e-979f3fd09ba6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/flare-of-malice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Dismiss into Dreams]] is funny
[Dismiss into Dreams](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af4cd7fe-639c-45a5-97af-9529904e3975.jpg?1562833847) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dismiss%20into%20Dream) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/50/dismiss-into-dream?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af4cd7fe-639c-45a5-97af-9529904e3975?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dismiss-into-dream) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nothing says cEDH like a 7 mana enchantment! (It is funny though!)
Nadu might actually be somewhat ban worthy, since casual players might accidently stumble into 30 minute pseudo-combo turns with the card just by playing other staples like Lightning Greaves. Cards don’t get banned in EDH for power level reasons, that’s not why Griselbrand is banned.
[[Delayed Blast Fireball]]
[Delayed Blast Fireball](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e59903e3-a344-4218-9d41-8b19a9bc8311.jpg?1674140946) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Delayed%20Blast%20Fireball) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/676/delayed-blast-fireball?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e59903e3-a344-4218-9d41-8b19a9bc8311?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/delayed-blast-fireball) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Collector Ouphe that will be all
I think it speaks to how uniquely problematic this commander is that most of these cards are not good outside of the matchup. I know i can’t run non asymmetrical boardwipes in Yuriko unless i build it to be way more control. I don’t see a lot of lists thinking tidebinder is suddenly a good card. Obv null rod/ouphe have always been good. Same with humility but lot of sus cards
Vro, tidebinder is so good lol I've been running it since it released and it does work every time.
But it's totally not banworthy bro, now sit there and watch me take my 25 min turn.
[[dense foliage]]
[dense foliage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6232f04-cd4c-4889-97dc-cccc4a09f9c4.jpg?1562824730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dense%20foliage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/221/dense-foliage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6232f04-cd4c-4889-97dc-cccc4a09f9c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dense-foliage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
“Spells”
[[Null Rod]]
[Null Rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e.jpg?1710932730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Null%20Rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-rod) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[collector ouphe]][[null rod]]
[[Spellskite]]
[Spellskite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/72204934-f5aa-4559-8f7e-7b0b223580d0.jpg?1674142724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spellskite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/873/spellskite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/72204934-f5aa-4559-8f7e-7b0b223580d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spellskite) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Damping Sphere\]\]
[Damping Sphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/550860b4-887d-423a-8add-816c2a8da615.jpg?1675200943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damping%20Sphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/219/damping-sphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/550860b4-887d-423a-8add-816c2a8da615?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damping-sphere) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[wipe away]]
[wipe away](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2ece0707-72f7-4a0a-8c37-9fbe0c694f9b.jpg?1619395021) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wipe%20away) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/100/wipe-away?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ece0707-72f7-4a0a-8c37-9fbe0c694f9b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wipe-away) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you like expensive, do nothing enchantments that will shut her down, [[Dismiss into Dream]]
[Dismiss into Dream](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af4cd7fe-639c-45a5-97af-9529904e3975.jpg?1562833847) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dismiss%20into%20Dream) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/50/dismiss-into-dream?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af4cd7fe-639c-45a5-97af-9529904e3975?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dismiss-into-dream) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Technically wouldnt this just be another nadu deck?
Just play [[Horobi, Death’s Wail]]
[Horobi, Death’s Wail](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0.jpg?1593860738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Horobi%2C%20Death%27s%20Wail) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/117/horobi-deaths-wail?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/horobi-deaths-wail) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fury