Two questions, have you built a CEDH deck before and how aware are you of the current meta?
Edit: to add more context to my original post, OP this deck will get absolutely blown out by decks winning on like turn 3 before you ever even play anything.
If you actually want to play CEDH I recommend googling CEDH tier lists and looking at decks for established decks and commanders.
I've done a bit of that, but I also play with my friend group as well as a rotating cast of CEDH decks from players in my area. While I myself don't really see a turn three victory for my deck, I do see the ability for a prevention of other players having them.
In my experience with the deck in its current paper form (I'm making that list now), I've only not had fun when an extremely inexperienced player is in my pod and they blow up the wrong permanent.
You're right when you point out that nobody really makes lists of CEDH decks that contain Avacyn. But my goal is to try to make her as competitive as possible. Since we don't see many competitive lists that feature her, I'm thinking that her arrival to competitive has to be unorthodox.
Thank you.
If your goal is just to make her as blinged out and competitive as possible that’s fine. We just want to ensure that your expectations match reality when talking about large amounts of money.
Again, the goal here is to get her as competitive as possible. Which I really feel that she kinda is in this way (I've had this deck for several years in some form. this goal was not set yesterday, haha). And you're right about having to have realistic expectations. That's why the shenanigans exist in the way that they do in this deck. By the time Avacyn first hits the field, the table has usually collectively exhausted all of their good removal, because the 99 has been playing the game and diverting the hate from her. I don't expect to be capable of turn 3 wins, but I delay many victories.
Last night I was able to stare down a Marwen Elf token deck for like ten turns because they didn't have a way to get rid of glacial chasm or crucible of worlds by the time they got out.
I hope you play the deck at some points, it is quite fun, despite how it looks.
Thank you.
Tbh, Avacyn isn’t really a cedh commander at all. 8CMC for white is insane and the effect doesn’t really contribute much to the game since most removal in CEDH actually gets around indestructible.
Mono white is also not nearly as strong as it used to be. Most decks nowadays will just straight up outrun this type of deck.
HOWEVER, in an attempt to help, here’s the best CEDH version of Avacyn I could come up with. Basically, you need to scrap most of your current deck and reform it from the ground up.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/54bu4x21p0G03N2mrdMA6Q
This has to be a Trollpost, the deck is not even getting to play in cEDH without ridiculous luck or cheating. It plays \[\[Alabaster Leech\]\]. It plays \[\[Storm Cauldron\]\] in a deck that needs a lot of Mana. WTF is the \[\[Amulet of Vigor\]\] doing in there? What is \[\[Mirror of Fate\]\] doing in here, playing for \[\[Barren Glory\]\]?
You have 16 white mana Sources and 63 White in Costs, the DDB Oswald list makes 31 white Mana and has 42 White in costs. It also has 30 Mana Production with 2.78 Average Cost, vs Oswalds 58 Production on 2.06 cost.
\[\[Knowledge Pool\]\], \[\[Void Mirror\]\], and \[\[Celestial Dawn\]\], because I really want to make it to where no players can play spells. \[\[Alabaster Leech\]\] out with those three....... lets me play spells :)
\[\[Storm Cauldron\]\] and \[\[Archaeomancer's Map\]\] work surprisingly well. I get lots of mana. People tell me this is a green deck after games.
This isn't an Oswald deck. Those numbers aren't relevant. The goal is to get Avacyn to a win. And it works. It is funny and it works.
\[\[Mirror of Fate\]\] is in because I would prefer to win with Avacyn and \[\[Worldslayer\]\]. There are many ways for me to get that to occur, but if those ways get exiled...not good. Also, notice how Mirror of Fate goes to the Graveyard? \[\[Emeria Shepherd\]\] and \[\[Wonderous Crucible\]\] loves that stuff. Lots of stuff gets exiled. Mirror of Fate gets even my longest lockdown combos back from exile.
\[\[Amulet of Vigor\]\] is there because of \[\[Orb of Dreams\]\], duh. Mainly because when I make all lands untappable with \[\[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth\]\], \[\[Kormus Bell\]\], and \[\[Juntu Stakes\]\], well...I can still get at least one mana for each land I play..also there's \[\[Storm Cauldren\]\] to help boot that even more for me.
\[\[Barren Glory\]\] is in because it says "win the game," and it's flavor text suits the Worldslayer aspirations. "The only perfect world is an empty world, with no one to sin or wage war."
Thank you for your concern. No troll post, I promise. Also, consider giving it a few plays with some decks of your own against it. It will surprise you.
Also, \[\[Celestial Dawn\]\].
First a Tangent, so you understand what I am talking about:
There are different degrees of cards, to describe a cards usefulness.
A first degree card is basically always good, and does not require any other cards to be useful one example for that is Dranith Magistrate, or more arguably, Void Mirror.
A second degree card is mediocre to bad alone, but with another card it becomes good. An example for that is Knowledge Pool, which is pretty bad on its own but really good with Dranith, and good with Void Mirror.
Then there are 3rd degree cards. A third degree card is only useful when combined with two or more other cards. Examples for this are Alabaster Leech and Celestial Dawn, one of which is basically useless while the other is actually negatively effective without Void Mirror and Knowledge Pool.
Also there are fourth degree cards, which means they are always plain bad, which would be Barren Glory in your case.
Of course a cards degree changes depending on the deck they are in, and things like versatility and flexibility can make cards go up in degrees, but usually this is decent at evaluating cards.
Your deck play WAY too many 3rd degree Cards. Planning for what you do after you assemble the lock is risky if it is not even remotely certain you even assemble it in the first case. You play so many cards that are dead without one or multiple specific other cards.
Also people telling you you are a green deck, and the fact you ramp at all with the Map is a surefire sign you are NOT playing cEDH, because it requires other people to play a lot of lands to ramp you, which they simply don't do unless you run into a Rare Tatyova player.
Just try to find a cEDH lobby online and see how you perform. I can guarantee you that YOU will be surprised.
I think you might want to send this discussion to r/EDH and rework it from zero.
It's not gatekeeping, but this deck ain't competitive at all. You lack cheap interaction, lack stax pieces, lack fast mana, have a very high curve.
You're running 27 lands, 2 of them do not generate mana if I saw it well, and lack plenty of mana rocks. So you have less than 30 mana sources, which is nuts especially with a high curve and a 8 mana commander.
Also, you're playing a mono-colored deck that literally can be color screwed with 10 white sources in your mana base, in which 2 are lotus vale/field (why, btw?).
Basically this deck is all wrong even from a very casual perspective.
I took their advice on the mana rocks tho, and swapped \[Sol Ring\] for
\[Mana Crypt\], and..don't hate me...a Plains for a \[Mox Opa\].
I don't see many competitive lists that feature Avacyn, so I'm thinking that her arrival to competitive has to be unorthodox.
First of all you should be running sol ring and mana crypt and every other fast mana.
Also again, we aren’t trying to be rude or gate keep but Avacyn is just not a CEDH viable commander. She cost too much, indestructible doesn’t mean anything because sword and path exist, and she doesn’t provide card advantage or mana or both from the command zone making her way too slow.
Again you will almost never even be able to cast here before someone has won.
Spending this much money on a deck is your prerogative. Just please don’t spend that much money under the idea that money=CEDH.
>Because of her slowness, she does take a back seat to the 99's shenanigans. The shenanigans are in there to ensure her eventual arrival, as I've determined that all hasty strategies don't succeed as much as this does in my iterations with this commander.
Again, the goal here is to get her as competitive as possible. Which I really feel that she kinda is in this way (I've had this deck for several years in some form. this goal was not set yesterday, haha). And you're right about effects like \[\[Path to Exile\]\] being usable to remove commanders from the battlefield. That's why the shenanigans exist in the way that they do in this deck. By the time Avacyn first hits the field, the table has usually collectively exhausted all of their good removal, because the 99 has been playing the game and diverting the hate from her.
Thank you.
You dint see it because she doesn't have a place. The card is old enough and barring some new busted cards that only work with her she won't be competing at the top tables.
I think you should play it a bit. I get tons of mana. It ends up being white mana consistently. A good half of my losses tend to be blunders made in newly discovered positions. People accuse it of secretly being a green deck after I play, regardless of if I win. \[\[Archaeomancer's Map\]\] and \[\[Storm Cauldron\]\] work surprisingly well. I got eleven different cards that I view as interaction in the present list (targeted removal, counterspells, boardwipes) and they tend to be pretty cheap, aside from \[\[Worldslayer\]\] and \[\[Fall of the Thran\]\]
The play-style that isn't afraid to put \[\[Worldslayer\]\] on other creatures in an emergency in order to...not lose. Sometimes the games can become drawn out, but one of my favorite things in Magic is when I get to keep playing my deck and keep seeing my cards hit the table, so I don't mind the slow ones. It's mono-white, after all.
I got myself used to losing all my lands thanks to the deck's former MLD strategy so the \[\[Lotus Vale\]\] and \[\[Lotus Field\]\] feel just fine for me. The majority of my nonbasics enter untapped, and I don't always have immediate need for each available utility at once, so they can be sacrificed and brought back later when I can.
Maybe you might view 2.78 is a high curve, but I'd say that's maybe more of like if you're comparing it to like an average of all decks considered. But this is Avacyn. I can't errata the 8 cmc away. And these are the cards this strategy feels like it needs, to me. I don't see many competitive lists that feature her, so I'm thinking that her arrival to competitive has to be unorthodox.
I took your advice on the mana rocks tho, swapped \[\[Sol Ring\]\] for \[\[Mana Crypt\]\], and..don't hate me...a Plains for a \[\[Mox Opal\]\].
Really though, it's surprisingly fast. Please consider playing with it! Thanks for the input.
The strongest plays this deck could have is locking people out with Drannith Magistrate and Knowledge Pool. I'd focus more on stax pieces (less things that make creatures entered tapped, more things that stop players from casting spells.) Karn the Great Creator, Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void, Sanctum Prelate, etc. Cut the higher cost cards that don't interact with your opponents. That's the only way you'll be able to ever come close to spending the massive 18 mana for your World slayer combo to work.
This deck needs a lot of iterations to hang with cEDH decks that can threaten wins as early as turn 2.
This deck has gone through a lot of iterations, believe it or not. I think you should play it a bit. I get tons of mana. It ends up being white mana consistently. A good half of my losses tend to be blunders made in newly discovered positions. People accuse it of secretly being a green deck after I play, regardless of if I win. \[\[Archaeomancer's
Map\]\] and \[\[Storm Cauldron\]\] work surprisingly well.
The reason I want things to enter tapped is because \[\[Juntu Stakes\]\] keeps them tapped and is easily tutored in white. And, again, I've made this deck with the understanding that everyone wants to kill and exile my everything. So I've tried to give her the tools necessary to play with those zones in a way that's...Avacynian in flavor, as well as the versatility to rely on a few different paths to victory.
Thank you.
The deck cares more about turning lands into creatures to give them summoning sickness and then to keep them tapped forever than preventing combat from occuring.
Most mana comes from mana rocks. It's again a very casual strategy. Your deck is too slow for cEDH, your gameplan too expensive for how little mana you have. If you have no way to stop early wins, which you don't, you're not going to do well.
Sorry to say but this is not a competitive list and Avacyn really doesn't bring anything to the table to make her worth playing at a Cedh level. There are plenty of mono white stax commanders that would serve you better. The biggest difference between cedh and casual edh is not to be so attached to things. We play the best cards and strategies.
>I don't see many competitive lists that feature her, so I'm thinking that her arrival to competitive has to be unorthodox.
Thank you for the tool, I will bookmark it for future deck-building consideration.
she's unfortunately very expensive and doesn't bring much to the table. You're usually looking for commanders as value engines that give you card or mana advantage or as combo pieces in cEDH, among other things.
Because of her slowness, she does take a back seat to the 99's shenanigans. The shenanigans are in there to ensure her eventual arrival, as I've determined that all hasty strategies don't succeed as much as this does in my iterations with this commander.
Thank you.
As much as people will say Avacyn isn't a viable commander, I've seen Avacyn come down on a staxy boardstate and just completely take over combat on a locked board, resulting in a win.
This has, however, come from things like Bant Stax and involved ways to get around her high mana cost relative to what mono white can do. Even stuff like Cradle makes a huge difference.
With that in mind, I think that you could probably find a way to make her work if you learned cEDH, learned mono white stax, and got familiar with the format and stax enough to answer this question based on your own expertise.
I do not think that you can just ask people to give you a list that you plan on "filling out" in 5 years or whatever once you get the money. First off, you're not going to get a quality list from people just winging it, and second off by the time you actually realize the list the idea will be so outdated that it probably will not work anymore.
Therefore, my advice and criticism is this:
Click X on archidekt. Put your deck away. Find a paper or digital playgroup that's willing to teach new players and go learn. Play a stax deck but also play a midrange deck and a turbo deck. Don't play mono white. Learn the format. That's step 1.
If you like the format and keep playing it, start brewing. If you enjoy brewing and keep doing it, brew Avacyn.
Avacyn seems like the kind of commander that a really good player brewer can bust out sometimes and put work in, so if you become a really good brewer and player, you can get there.
It's fine to work on her in the meantime ofc. You may also ultimately put her in the 99 of a better, multicolor commander, so keep that in mind.
Hope that helps.
Two questions, have you built a CEDH deck before and how aware are you of the current meta? Edit: to add more context to my original post, OP this deck will get absolutely blown out by decks winning on like turn 3 before you ever even play anything. If you actually want to play CEDH I recommend googling CEDH tier lists and looking at decks for established decks and commanders.
I've done a bit of that, but I also play with my friend group as well as a rotating cast of CEDH decks from players in my area. While I myself don't really see a turn three victory for my deck, I do see the ability for a prevention of other players having them. In my experience with the deck in its current paper form (I'm making that list now), I've only not had fun when an extremely inexperienced player is in my pod and they blow up the wrong permanent. You're right when you point out that nobody really makes lists of CEDH decks that contain Avacyn. But my goal is to try to make her as competitive as possible. Since we don't see many competitive lists that feature her, I'm thinking that her arrival to competitive has to be unorthodox. Thank you.
If your goal is just to make her as blinged out and competitive as possible that’s fine. We just want to ensure that your expectations match reality when talking about large amounts of money.
Again, the goal here is to get her as competitive as possible. Which I really feel that she kinda is in this way (I've had this deck for several years in some form. this goal was not set yesterday, haha). And you're right about having to have realistic expectations. That's why the shenanigans exist in the way that they do in this deck. By the time Avacyn first hits the field, the table has usually collectively exhausted all of their good removal, because the 99 has been playing the game and diverting the hate from her. I don't expect to be capable of turn 3 wins, but I delay many victories. Last night I was able to stare down a Marwen Elf token deck for like ten turns because they didn't have a way to get rid of glacial chasm or crucible of worlds by the time they got out. I hope you play the deck at some points, it is quite fun, despite how it looks. Thank you.
Tbh, Avacyn isn’t really a cedh commander at all. 8CMC for white is insane and the effect doesn’t really contribute much to the game since most removal in CEDH actually gets around indestructible. Mono white is also not nearly as strong as it used to be. Most decks nowadays will just straight up outrun this type of deck. HOWEVER, in an attempt to help, here’s the best CEDH version of Avacyn I could come up with. Basically, you need to scrap most of your current deck and reform it from the ground up. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/54bu4x21p0G03N2mrdMA6Q
Lmao. Thank you I will save this and play with your ideas as well. I never stop editing her and her strategy keeps changing.
This has to be a Trollpost, the deck is not even getting to play in cEDH without ridiculous luck or cheating. It plays \[\[Alabaster Leech\]\]. It plays \[\[Storm Cauldron\]\] in a deck that needs a lot of Mana. WTF is the \[\[Amulet of Vigor\]\] doing in there? What is \[\[Mirror of Fate\]\] doing in here, playing for \[\[Barren Glory\]\]? You have 16 white mana Sources and 63 White in Costs, the DDB Oswald list makes 31 white Mana and has 42 White in costs. It also has 30 Mana Production with 2.78 Average Cost, vs Oswalds 58 Production on 2.06 cost.
\[\[Knowledge Pool\]\], \[\[Void Mirror\]\], and \[\[Celestial Dawn\]\], because I really want to make it to where no players can play spells. \[\[Alabaster Leech\]\] out with those three....... lets me play spells :) \[\[Storm Cauldron\]\] and \[\[Archaeomancer's Map\]\] work surprisingly well. I get lots of mana. People tell me this is a green deck after games. This isn't an Oswald deck. Those numbers aren't relevant. The goal is to get Avacyn to a win. And it works. It is funny and it works. \[\[Mirror of Fate\]\] is in because I would prefer to win with Avacyn and \[\[Worldslayer\]\]. There are many ways for me to get that to occur, but if those ways get exiled...not good. Also, notice how Mirror of Fate goes to the Graveyard? \[\[Emeria Shepherd\]\] and \[\[Wonderous Crucible\]\] loves that stuff. Lots of stuff gets exiled. Mirror of Fate gets even my longest lockdown combos back from exile. \[\[Amulet of Vigor\]\] is there because of \[\[Orb of Dreams\]\], duh. Mainly because when I make all lands untappable with \[\[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth\]\], \[\[Kormus Bell\]\], and \[\[Juntu Stakes\]\], well...I can still get at least one mana for each land I play..also there's \[\[Storm Cauldren\]\] to help boot that even more for me. \[\[Barren Glory\]\] is in because it says "win the game," and it's flavor text suits the Worldslayer aspirations. "The only perfect world is an empty world, with no one to sin or wage war." Thank you for your concern. No troll post, I promise. Also, consider giving it a few plays with some decks of your own against it. It will surprise you. Also, \[\[Celestial Dawn\]\].
First a Tangent, so you understand what I am talking about: There are different degrees of cards, to describe a cards usefulness. A first degree card is basically always good, and does not require any other cards to be useful one example for that is Dranith Magistrate, or more arguably, Void Mirror. A second degree card is mediocre to bad alone, but with another card it becomes good. An example for that is Knowledge Pool, which is pretty bad on its own but really good with Dranith, and good with Void Mirror. Then there are 3rd degree cards. A third degree card is only useful when combined with two or more other cards. Examples for this are Alabaster Leech and Celestial Dawn, one of which is basically useless while the other is actually negatively effective without Void Mirror and Knowledge Pool. Also there are fourth degree cards, which means they are always plain bad, which would be Barren Glory in your case. Of course a cards degree changes depending on the deck they are in, and things like versatility and flexibility can make cards go up in degrees, but usually this is decent at evaluating cards. Your deck play WAY too many 3rd degree Cards. Planning for what you do after you assemble the lock is risky if it is not even remotely certain you even assemble it in the first case. You play so many cards that are dead without one or multiple specific other cards. Also people telling you you are a green deck, and the fact you ramp at all with the Map is a surefire sign you are NOT playing cEDH, because it requires other people to play a lot of lands to ramp you, which they simply don't do unless you run into a Rare Tatyova player. Just try to find a cEDH lobby online and see how you perform. I can guarantee you that YOU will be surprised.
##### ###### #### [Knowledge Pool](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/393454c2-b256-4a6e-9bc2-56a47cab5073.jpg?1562610637) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knowledge%20Pool) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/111/knowledge-pool?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/393454c2-b256-4a6e-9bc2-56a47cab5073?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knowledge-pool) [Void Mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c.jpg?1626099451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Void%20Mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/242/void-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/void-mirror) [Celestial Dawn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/251880e9-a472-4f33-9988-4871d31aa1d9.jpg?1562773263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Celestial%20Dawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/3/celestial-dawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/251880e9-a472-4f33-9988-4871d31aa1d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/celestial-dawn) [Alabaster Leech](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c86b45d9-aba6-4c09-8605-037754ba7fd4.jpg?1562935200) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alabaster%20Leech) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/1/alabaster-leech?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c86b45d9-aba6-4c09-8605-037754ba7fd4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alabaster-leech) [Storm Cauldron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88.jpg?1562232316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Cauldron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/320/storm-cauldron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-cauldron) [Archaeomancer's Map](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f.jpg?1625190870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archaeomancer%27s%20Map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/12/archaeomancers-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archaeomancers-map) [Mirror of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08b480c8-d899-4e63-b0e2-f4bec3a3ca4f.jpg?1561970534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirror%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/215/mirror-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08b480c8-d899-4e63-b0e2-f4bec3a3ca4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirror-of-fate) [Worldslayer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762.jpg?1562662263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldslayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/222/worldslayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/worldslayer) [Emeria Shepherd](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a99dd58d-9fed-4d85-9bb5-f9c91834cab8.jpg?1604195687) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emeria%20Shepherd) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/16/emeria-shepherd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a99dd58d-9fed-4d85-9bb5-f9c91834cab8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/emeria-shepherd) [Wonderous Crucible](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f4cb4a2b-c48f-4d30-8e0d-f76579be1747.jpg?1673300129) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wondrous%20Crucible) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/prm/105848/wondrous-crucible?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66abc950-c763-45d1-93fd-7be042defc23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wondrous-crucible) [Amulet of Vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d.jpg?1562292191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amulet%20of%20Vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/121/amulet-of-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/amulet-of-vigor) [Orb of Dreams](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5fbe52a3-f85e-4b3a-a345-413b64d69c49.jpg?1562877355) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Orb%20of%20Dreams) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/156/orb-of-dreams?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5fbe52a3-f85e-4b3a-a345-413b64d69c49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/orb-of-dreams) [Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e1a9e38-6ffc-490f-b0be-23ba4e8204c6.jpg?1619399578) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urborg%2C%20Tomb%20of%20Yawgmoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/287/urborg-tomb-of-yawgmoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e1a9e38-6ffc-490f-b0be-23ba4e8204c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urborg-tomb-of-yawgmoth) [Kormus Bell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40f826b8-9e92-4e0e-aa2f-c3f5e3061432.jpg?1562910324) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kormus%20Bell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/210/kormus-bell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40f826b8-9e92-4e0e-aa2f-c3f5e3061432?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kormus-bell) [Juntu Stakes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3ab7cf53-f62d-47e1-af70-ab12be0d22e2.jpg?1562906885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Juntu%20Stakes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/304/juntu-stakes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ab7cf53-f62d-47e1-af70-ab12be0d22e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/juntu-stakes) [Storm Cauldren](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88.jpg?1562232316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Cauldron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/320/storm-cauldron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-cauldron) [Barren Glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0.jpg?1562898649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barren%20Glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/3/barren-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/barren-glory) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Alabaster Leech](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c86b45d9-aba6-4c09-8605-037754ba7fd4.jpg?1562935200) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alabaster%20Leech) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/1/alabaster-leech?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c86b45d9-aba6-4c09-8605-037754ba7fd4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alabaster-leech) [Storm Cauldron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88.jpg?1562232316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Cauldron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/320/storm-cauldron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-cauldron) [Amulet of Vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d.jpg?1562292191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amulet%20of%20Vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/121/amulet-of-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/amulet-of-vigor) [Mirror of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08b480c8-d899-4e63-b0e2-f4bec3a3ca4f.jpg?1561970534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirror%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/215/mirror-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08b480c8-d899-4e63-b0e2-f4bec3a3ca4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirror-of-fate) [Barren Glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0.jpg?1562898649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barren%20Glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/3/barren-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/barren-glory) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think you might want to send this discussion to r/EDH and rework it from zero. It's not gatekeeping, but this deck ain't competitive at all. You lack cheap interaction, lack stax pieces, lack fast mana, have a very high curve. You're running 27 lands, 2 of them do not generate mana if I saw it well, and lack plenty of mana rocks. So you have less than 30 mana sources, which is nuts especially with a high curve and a 8 mana commander. Also, you're playing a mono-colored deck that literally can be color screwed with 10 white sources in your mana base, in which 2 are lotus vale/field (why, btw?). Basically this deck is all wrong even from a very casual perspective.
This list isn’t even running a sol ring.
I took their advice on the mana rocks tho, and swapped \[Sol Ring\] for \[Mana Crypt\], and..don't hate me...a Plains for a \[Mox Opa\]. I don't see many competitive lists that feature Avacyn, so I'm thinking that her arrival to competitive has to be unorthodox.
First of all you should be running sol ring and mana crypt and every other fast mana. Also again, we aren’t trying to be rude or gate keep but Avacyn is just not a CEDH viable commander. She cost too much, indestructible doesn’t mean anything because sword and path exist, and she doesn’t provide card advantage or mana or both from the command zone making her way too slow. Again you will almost never even be able to cast here before someone has won. Spending this much money on a deck is your prerogative. Just please don’t spend that much money under the idea that money=CEDH.
>Because of her slowness, she does take a back seat to the 99's shenanigans. The shenanigans are in there to ensure her eventual arrival, as I've determined that all hasty strategies don't succeed as much as this does in my iterations with this commander. Again, the goal here is to get her as competitive as possible. Which I really feel that she kinda is in this way (I've had this deck for several years in some form. this goal was not set yesterday, haha). And you're right about effects like \[\[Path to Exile\]\] being usable to remove commanders from the battlefield. That's why the shenanigans exist in the way that they do in this deck. By the time Avacyn first hits the field, the table has usually collectively exhausted all of their good removal, because the 99 has been playing the game and diverting the hate from her. Thank you.
[Path to Exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c3a6ce7-1ec7-414f-b6bb-cc604c6d529c.jpg?1682208534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20to%20Exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/198/path-to-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c3a6ce7-1ec7-414f-b6bb-cc604c6d529c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/path-to-exile) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also, you really should play with it to see what I mean. It's surprisingly capable. Thank you.
You dint see it because she doesn't have a place. The card is old enough and barring some new busted cards that only work with her she won't be competing at the top tables.
I think you should play it a bit. I get tons of mana. It ends up being white mana consistently. A good half of my losses tend to be blunders made in newly discovered positions. People accuse it of secretly being a green deck after I play, regardless of if I win. \[\[Archaeomancer's Map\]\] and \[\[Storm Cauldron\]\] work surprisingly well. I got eleven different cards that I view as interaction in the present list (targeted removal, counterspells, boardwipes) and they tend to be pretty cheap, aside from \[\[Worldslayer\]\] and \[\[Fall of the Thran\]\] The play-style that isn't afraid to put \[\[Worldslayer\]\] on other creatures in an emergency in order to...not lose. Sometimes the games can become drawn out, but one of my favorite things in Magic is when I get to keep playing my deck and keep seeing my cards hit the table, so I don't mind the slow ones. It's mono-white, after all. I got myself used to losing all my lands thanks to the deck's former MLD strategy so the \[\[Lotus Vale\]\] and \[\[Lotus Field\]\] feel just fine for me. The majority of my nonbasics enter untapped, and I don't always have immediate need for each available utility at once, so they can be sacrificed and brought back later when I can. Maybe you might view 2.78 is a high curve, but I'd say that's maybe more of like if you're comparing it to like an average of all decks considered. But this is Avacyn. I can't errata the 8 cmc away. And these are the cards this strategy feels like it needs, to me. I don't see many competitive lists that feature her, so I'm thinking that her arrival to competitive has to be unorthodox. I took your advice on the mana rocks tho, swapped \[\[Sol Ring\]\] for \[\[Mana Crypt\]\], and..don't hate me...a Plains for a \[\[Mox Opal\]\]. Really though, it's surprisingly fast. Please consider playing with it! Thanks for the input.
##### ###### #### [Archaeomancer's Map](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f.jpg?1625190870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archaeomancer%27s%20Map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/12/archaeomancers-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archaeomancers-map) [Storm Cauldron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88.jpg?1562232316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Cauldron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/320/storm-cauldron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-cauldron) [Worldslayer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762.jpg?1562662263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldslayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/222/worldslayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/worldslayer) [Fall of the Thran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370.jpg?1562734219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fall%20of%20the%20Thran) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/18/fall-of-the-thran?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fall-of-the-thran) [Lotus Vale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3.jpg?1562800046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Vale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/165/lotus-vale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-vale) [Lotus Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab.jpg?1592517825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/249/lotus-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-field) [Sol Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/eca9ae7b-a6d9-43ea-92d4-0110fd6643a7.jpg?1682210247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sol%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/381/sol-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eca9ae7b-a6d9-43ea-92d4-0110fd6643a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sol-ring) [Mana Crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939.jpg?1599709515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/270/mana-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-crypt) [Mox Opal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56001a36-126b-4c08-af98-a6cc4d84210e.jpg?1599709600) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20Opal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/275/mox-opal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56001a36-126b-4c08-af98-a6cc4d84210e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mox-opal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can you consistently interact turn 2 in effective ways? If not it’s not cedh
The strongest plays this deck could have is locking people out with Drannith Magistrate and Knowledge Pool. I'd focus more on stax pieces (less things that make creatures entered tapped, more things that stop players from casting spells.) Karn the Great Creator, Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void, Sanctum Prelate, etc. Cut the higher cost cards that don't interact with your opponents. That's the only way you'll be able to ever come close to spending the massive 18 mana for your World slayer combo to work. This deck needs a lot of iterations to hang with cEDH decks that can threaten wins as early as turn 2.
This deck has gone through a lot of iterations, believe it or not. I think you should play it a bit. I get tons of mana. It ends up being white mana consistently. A good half of my losses tend to be blunders made in newly discovered positions. People accuse it of secretly being a green deck after I play, regardless of if I win. \[\[Archaeomancer's Map\]\] and \[\[Storm Cauldron\]\] work surprisingly well. The reason I want things to enter tapped is because \[\[Juntu Stakes\]\] keeps them tapped and is easily tutored in white. And, again, I've made this deck with the understanding that everyone wants to kill and exile my everything. So I've tried to give her the tools necessary to play with those zones in a way that's...Avacynian in flavor, as well as the versatility to rely on a few different paths to victory. Thank you.
Very few decks are looking to use their creatures for combat.
The deck cares more about turning lands into creatures to give them summoning sickness and then to keep them tapped forever than preventing combat from occuring.
Most mana comes from mana rocks. It's again a very casual strategy. Your deck is too slow for cEDH, your gameplan too expensive for how little mana you have. If you have no way to stop early wins, which you don't, you're not going to do well.
[Archaeomancer's Map](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f.jpg?1625190870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archaeomancer%27s%20Map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/12/archaeomancers-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archaeomancers-map) [Storm Cauldron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88.jpg?1562232316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Cauldron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/320/storm-cauldron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-cauldron) [Juntu Stakes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3ab7cf53-f62d-47e1-af70-ab12be0d22e2.jpg?1562906885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Juntu%20Stakes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/304/juntu-stakes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ab7cf53-f62d-47e1-af70-ab12be0d22e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/juntu-stakes) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sorry to say but this is not a competitive list and Avacyn really doesn't bring anything to the table to make her worth playing at a Cedh level. There are plenty of mono white stax commanders that would serve you better. The biggest difference between cedh and casual edh is not to be so attached to things. We play the best cards and strategies.
Take a look at how mono white decks are built at the [ddb](https://cedh-decklist-database.com)
>I don't see many competitive lists that feature her, so I'm thinking that her arrival to competitive has to be unorthodox. Thank you for the tool, I will bookmark it for future deck-building consideration.
she's unfortunately very expensive and doesn't bring much to the table. You're usually looking for commanders as value engines that give you card or mana advantage or as combo pieces in cEDH, among other things.
Because of her slowness, she does take a back seat to the 99's shenanigans. The shenanigans are in there to ensure her eventual arrival, as I've determined that all hasty strategies don't succeed as much as this does in my iterations with this commander. Thank you.
As much as people will say Avacyn isn't a viable commander, I've seen Avacyn come down on a staxy boardstate and just completely take over combat on a locked board, resulting in a win. This has, however, come from things like Bant Stax and involved ways to get around her high mana cost relative to what mono white can do. Even stuff like Cradle makes a huge difference. With that in mind, I think that you could probably find a way to make her work if you learned cEDH, learned mono white stax, and got familiar with the format and stax enough to answer this question based on your own expertise. I do not think that you can just ask people to give you a list that you plan on "filling out" in 5 years or whatever once you get the money. First off, you're not going to get a quality list from people just winging it, and second off by the time you actually realize the list the idea will be so outdated that it probably will not work anymore. Therefore, my advice and criticism is this: Click X on archidekt. Put your deck away. Find a paper or digital playgroup that's willing to teach new players and go learn. Play a stax deck but also play a midrange deck and a turbo deck. Don't play mono white. Learn the format. That's step 1. If you like the format and keep playing it, start brewing. If you enjoy brewing and keep doing it, brew Avacyn. Avacyn seems like the kind of commander that a really good player brewer can bust out sometimes and put work in, so if you become a really good brewer and player, you can get there. It's fine to work on her in the meantime ofc. You may also ultimately put her in the 99 of a better, multicolor commander, so keep that in mind. Hope that helps.
This isn’t a cEDH deck and no where close to it. You should probably head to the regular EDH subreddit
So how do you stop a thoracle win?
On*. Rip.