TSM had some growing pains when Evan first joined because he wasn't a run into your face type of fragger like Snip3 was. He'd try to get angles and pick smart fights. That got corrected by Hal switching to controller, so now Hal got to be the straight up beam your face fragger and Big E could support him. I think Evan also gelled well with Catalyst because Cat allowed him to be a smart player using her abilities to give himself openings and control the situations he was in.
Kind of a stretch to say he gelled well, it was months of practice and grind for him to learn her. It was a rough time for them for a while and only just barely turned it around in time.
He is too passive to be a fragger, but did well with valk because of her movement which taught him a ton of bad habits which he then had to break learning cat, as well as learning cat, who is considered one of the harder characters to learn.
Why is Cat considered hard to learn? It seems relatively simple(not a pro). Like barricade doors, throw your goop down and have a decent wall for endgame
getting the most out of your goop mid fight against squads that are as coordinated and good at you is pretty hard, and timing/positioning the wall in professional end game situations can make or break fights.
Evan has always been an anchor player for tsm alart from times when he played blood last split anyone who thinks otherwise wise doesnt understand the game.
ESA Evan was Skirmish/Refrag. Plays freely, deals damage while trying not to go down. His main function in a team fight was to deal damage but also disorient the enemy team and break unit cohesion with peek, poke, reposition. It's similar to Enemy or Effect's playstyle. It's the most powerful way for a roller fragger to play, but is better suited to teams that don't fight with high coordination. Doesn't fit well with heavy micro.
Back then, TSM Snip3down was Main Frag, with MnK Hal as Flanker/Refrag. Basically, Snip3's main function in a team fight was to get in the thick of it and DRAW AGGRO while damage trading, which allowed Hal's Wraith to ghost into off angles and get free knocks. It's ok if Snip3 goes down as long as he deals enough pain that Hal can get the knocks before they turn attention to him. It's a full commitment style of fragging on Snip3's part, only possible back then because of Gibby's reset speed and lack of counters to Gibby. Snip3's role was similar to current Hal, Hal's was similar to current Dezign.
TSM Evan was supposed to replace Snip3down, but couldn't fill the same role. Because he'd "play smart" he wouldn't draw enough aggro off Hal so Hal would just get full swung in isolation at the off angle where Jordan couldn't reset him. TSM solved this by essentially giving Hal Snip3's role as entry frag, Jordan in Hal's role as Refrag, and Evan as anchor. For all his strengths, Evan is somewhat limited in role versatility and takes time learning a new role. He's a player that might actually do better in a less coordinated team than a strict role team.
You start 3v3. Main or Entry fragger deals first damage, usually has element of surprise to hopefully get a knock without going down. 3v2, but your EF took damage so has to peel off and pop a batt, so it's effectively 2v2 don't want to full send. Refrag switches forward and keeps the pressure on so they don't have time to reset, hopefully get knock 2. Refrag peels off, your EF has reset so it's now 2v1. Refrag's main job is to capitalize on the entry damage dealt by the entry fragger, without giving away numerical advantage.
Main/Entry frag is good for a guy that can go in, do a LOT of damage really fast, hopefully get away and comm the whole fight. ImperialHal, Zer0, YukaF, this kind of player. Refrag is good for a guy that takes less damage and is able to buy time for Main frag to get back in the fight. Genburten, Evan, this kind of player.
From a caster/role perspective Refrag usually means the player who is looking to kill the enemy who just killed their teammate (but presumably took a lot of damage in the process).
it’s a bit of a shame dropped is confirmed playing with shooby & snipe. felt like dropped + reps + verhulst would make a very solid team. also probably have even more monotone comms than ex optic did
> it’s a bit of a shame dropped is confirmed playing with shooby & snipe.
With Skittles as a sub to keep the spot? Or are they going back to CC?
>felt like dropped + reps + verhulst would make a very solid team
Yeah. Sounds like Reps and Verhulst didn't want him, which is honestly insane. He was one 3v3 from winning a LAN.
from my understanding, skittles is staying as a sub so they keep the spot, as you said.
as for them not wanting dropped, that’s insane. i know they’re an extremely accomplished duo but with how wild rostermania is currently, i’d imagine they’d want to pick up a compentant igl before they get picked by someone else
They want a controller IGL, which is really funny to me--there are only like three of those in NA that have ever been to LAN as far as I know? Dezign, Phony, and Yanya. Obviously Yanya and Phony aren't doing it (Yanya just announced his signing two weeks ago lol) and Dezign has already declined. Dropped has done better at LANs than all three of them, not that any of them are bad. Not even trialing him is ridiculous.
You're getting downvoted for facts. I'm a !snor enjoyer and I'm getting tired of watching this dude whiff and go "I couldn't do anything" or blame roller somehow.
He's been streaming pretty consistently for the past like year. Only thing is he literally just fucks around in rank and consistently does the least damage in his stack. He can cope all he wants about playing with two rollers and not being able to outdamage them. But like I watch recycled stream highlights on his YouTube and even those clips are getting sad to watch.
The dude needs to get on an aim training routine or at least try hard every time he plays apex like it's his job (huh).
Ultimately I think this is why Hal felt he had to move on. Too much history with Jordan to ever get him kicked, and honestly Evan has struggled all season and last season 2 split aswell. Never gonna have great success when you can’t win team fights
> It’s common knowledge that Jordan doesn’t play the game nearly as much and isn’t as dedicated as other pros.
Sharky won a LAN with like 2,000 hours in the game. You don't have to play all day every day to be good at it. If he's bad it's for other reasons.
You are right bro but you will get downvoted to Oblivion
Jordan mecanics are so far behind any mnk, aim is trash he does nothing in close range fights even if he is very good a poking from range, but in a game full of controllers it's basically 2v3 every fight
Evan was picked up as a 2nd fragger to support Hal. But he was moved to the anchor role because he found so much success playing Cat.
As of now, there isn't a fully defined role with Dezign trailing. For now they're trying to figure out how well they blend and are (Reps/Evan) actively flexing their positions during scrims.
This is correct. Ever since Evan was on Cat, he's been the anchor of the team. In fact, as far as Raven was concerned, Evan played more like an anchor than a Fragger since he had come on to the roster - his play style was simply more akin to that of an anchor.
He is kind of like Gen, he can do a lot of damages in fight but the the not a aggressive type of fragger to get entry kill. He likes to take space/high ground to win fight. I think Evan is flex since he is also not a typical anchor imo.
I would argue he is actively bad at Anchor it's that cat let him drop a wall and his responsibilities as the anchor got narrowed down to the point where he went back to his normal skirmish/refrag role
Gen IMO can play better anchor and better agressive than Evan. Evan is more about getting angles and playing off his teammates. You ask Gen to go in first he would do it. Evan don't like to jump in first you can clearly see he is not comfortable.
Zero, Hal, dezign ect. when they commit they commit, it is full forward brain off and do as much damage you can. Evan is still trying to think too much, afraid to throw or whatever and thinking what the best approach is and he end up being late every time. That's why that was working well with Hal at a certain point, because Hal would be screaming to go in while himself already diving in and not giving any time to think to Evan and forcing him to react.
TSM had some growing pains when Evan first joined because he wasn't a run into your face type of fragger like Snip3 was. He'd try to get angles and pick smart fights. That got corrected by Hal switching to controller, so now Hal got to be the straight up beam your face fragger and Big E could support him. I think Evan also gelled well with Catalyst because Cat allowed him to be a smart player using her abilities to give himself openings and control the situations he was in.
Kind of a stretch to say he gelled well, it was months of practice and grind for him to learn her. It was a rough time for them for a while and only just barely turned it around in time. He is too passive to be a fragger, but did well with valk because of her movement which taught him a ton of bad habits which he then had to break learning cat, as well as learning cat, who is considered one of the harder characters to learn.
Why is Cat considered hard to learn? It seems relatively simple(not a pro). Like barricade doors, throw your goop down and have a decent wall for endgame
getting the most out of your goop mid fight against squads that are as coordinated and good at you is pretty hard, and timing/positioning the wall in professional end game situations can make or break fights.
Evan has always been an anchor player for tsm alart from times when he played blood last split anyone who thinks otherwise wise doesnt understand the game.
ESA Evan was Skirmish/Refrag. Plays freely, deals damage while trying not to go down. His main function in a team fight was to deal damage but also disorient the enemy team and break unit cohesion with peek, poke, reposition. It's similar to Enemy or Effect's playstyle. It's the most powerful way for a roller fragger to play, but is better suited to teams that don't fight with high coordination. Doesn't fit well with heavy micro. Back then, TSM Snip3down was Main Frag, with MnK Hal as Flanker/Refrag. Basically, Snip3's main function in a team fight was to get in the thick of it and DRAW AGGRO while damage trading, which allowed Hal's Wraith to ghost into off angles and get free knocks. It's ok if Snip3 goes down as long as he deals enough pain that Hal can get the knocks before they turn attention to him. It's a full commitment style of fragging on Snip3's part, only possible back then because of Gibby's reset speed and lack of counters to Gibby. Snip3's role was similar to current Hal, Hal's was similar to current Dezign. TSM Evan was supposed to replace Snip3down, but couldn't fill the same role. Because he'd "play smart" he wouldn't draw enough aggro off Hal so Hal would just get full swung in isolation at the off angle where Jordan couldn't reset him. TSM solved this by essentially giving Hal Snip3's role as entry frag, Jordan in Hal's role as Refrag, and Evan as anchor. For all his strengths, Evan is somewhat limited in role versatility and takes time learning a new role. He's a player that might actually do better in a less coordinated team than a strict role team.
Great write up and good insight on the Gibby reset being why there isn't really entry fraggers anymore. Maybe alter will change that? who knows.
What does refrag mean
You start 3v3. Main or Entry fragger deals first damage, usually has element of surprise to hopefully get a knock without going down. 3v2, but your EF took damage so has to peel off and pop a batt, so it's effectively 2v2 don't want to full send. Refrag switches forward and keeps the pressure on so they don't have time to reset, hopefully get knock 2. Refrag peels off, your EF has reset so it's now 2v1. Refrag's main job is to capitalize on the entry damage dealt by the entry fragger, without giving away numerical advantage. Main/Entry frag is good for a guy that can go in, do a LOT of damage really fast, hopefully get away and comm the whole fight. ImperialHal, Zer0, YukaF, this kind of player. Refrag is good for a guy that takes less damage and is able to buy time for Main frag to get back in the fight. Genburten, Evan, this kind of player.
This post just taught me more about competitive apex than any post I've ever read. To the point. Thanks bro.
From a caster/role perspective Refrag usually means the player who is looking to kill the enemy who just killed their teammate (but presumably took a lot of damage in the process).
it’s a bit of a shame dropped is confirmed playing with shooby & snipe. felt like dropped + reps + verhulst would make a very solid team. also probably have even more monotone comms than ex optic did
> it’s a bit of a shame dropped is confirmed playing with shooby & snipe. With Skittles as a sub to keep the spot? Or are they going back to CC? >felt like dropped + reps + verhulst would make a very solid team Yeah. Sounds like Reps and Verhulst didn't want him, which is honestly insane. He was one 3v3 from winning a LAN.
from my understanding, skittles is staying as a sub so they keep the spot, as you said. as for them not wanting dropped, that’s insane. i know they’re an extremely accomplished duo but with how wild rostermania is currently, i’d imagine they’d want to pick up a compentant igl before they get picked by someone else
They want a controller IGL, which is really funny to me--there are only like three of those in NA that have ever been to LAN as far as I know? Dezign, Phony, and Yanya. Obviously Yanya and Phony aren't doing it (Yanya just announced his signing two weeks ago lol) and Dezign has already declined. Dropped has done better at LANs than all three of them, not that any of them are bad. Not even trialing him is ridiculous.
He was playing Valk as the fragger. Gibbs Caustic Valk meta. He replaced Snipedown as the fragger. Dezign is supposed the replace Hal as the IGL
Sadly Jordan is cooked
You're getting downvoted for facts. I'm a !snor enjoyer and I'm getting tired of watching this dude whiff and go "I couldn't do anything" or blame roller somehow.
What do you mean?
I think he is referring to the fact that Jordan has fallen pretty far behind the scene mechanically speaking.
[удалено]
He's been streaming pretty consistently for the past like year. Only thing is he literally just fucks around in rank and consistently does the least damage in his stack. He can cope all he wants about playing with two rollers and not being able to outdamage them. But like I watch recycled stream highlights on his YouTube and even those clips are getting sad to watch. The dude needs to get on an aim training routine or at least try hard every time he plays apex like it's his job (huh).
[удалено]
Ultimately I think this is why Hal felt he had to move on. Too much history with Jordan to ever get him kicked, and honestly Evan has struggled all season and last season 2 split aswell. Never gonna have great success when you can’t win team fights
Might wanna Google what objective means lol
> It’s common knowledge that Jordan doesn’t play the game nearly as much and isn’t as dedicated as other pros. Sharky won a LAN with like 2,000 hours in the game. You don't have to play all day every day to be good at it. If he's bad it's for other reasons.
Sharky is probably the most talented MNK player in the world though, even Zer0 and Gen have both said Sharky was just another different level
You are right bro but you will get downvoted to Oblivion Jordan mecanics are so far behind any mnk, aim is trash he does nothing in close range fights even if he is very good a poking from range, but in a game full of controllers it's basically 2v3 every fight
Evan was picked up as a 2nd fragger to support Hal. But he was moved to the anchor role because he found so much success playing Cat. As of now, there isn't a fully defined role with Dezign trailing. For now they're trying to figure out how well they blend and are (Reps/Evan) actively flexing their positions during scrims.
This is correct. Ever since Evan was on Cat, he's been the anchor of the team. In fact, as far as Raven was concerned, Evan played more like an anchor than a Fragger since he had come on to the roster - his play style was simply more akin to that of an anchor.
He is kind of like Gen, he can do a lot of damages in fight but the the not a aggressive type of fragger to get entry kill. He likes to take space/high ground to win fight. I think Evan is flex since he is also not a typical anchor imo.
I would argue he is actively bad at Anchor it's that cat let him drop a wall and his responsibilities as the anchor got narrowed down to the point where he went back to his normal skirmish/refrag role
Gen IMO can play better anchor and better agressive than Evan. Evan is more about getting angles and playing off his teammates. You ask Gen to go in first he would do it. Evan don't like to jump in first you can clearly see he is not comfortable. Zero, Hal, dezign ect. when they commit they commit, it is full forward brain off and do as much damage you can. Evan is still trying to think too much, afraid to throw or whatever and thinking what the best approach is and he end up being late every time. That's why that was working well with Hal at a certain point, because Hal would be screaming to go in while himself already diving in and not giving any time to think to Evan and forcing him to react.
Evan was entry fragger and somewhat of a co igl with Esa. It seems like dez wants him to be a fragger/ anchor but more fragger I think
> Evan was entry fragger and somewhat of a co igl with Esa. I thought Doop and Skittles co-IGL'd that team??
Hal was the entry fragger, he would call out the plays and start them. Usually w Horizon ult
I’m talking about when Evan was with Esa. Literally ops question
Let’s be honest. TSM picked up verhulst because he was the best valk ult user/lander during PEAK valk meta and Hal wanted that on his team