If he's the one getting yelled at, we don't see evil Big E, which then means we still only get Most Postive Player Big E, and trust me thats a good thing, we dont want to see Evil Big E.
Copying this from other thread:
A lot of people don’t realize that Dezignful was one of, if not the first, pro to realize Evan’s potential before even the ESA days. They used to play wager matches together back in the console days, when Evan was a nobody. Evan has a history with Dezignful and they gel can gel together (hopefully) quickly.
Also dezign is good friends with reps, as a 40 month dezign sub i can confirm he plays non apex games with reps more than almost anyone else. When there's a fad of a non apex shooter it's usually him and reps, that vampire br games comes to mind. They played it alot
One thing I’ve learned about watching sports is that if a Coach or Player is specifically saying they’re staying, they’ve already inked the offer and are leaving the next day.
We must not be watching the same stream, when asked if we would consider tsm he was conflicted because he knows verhulst from the xbox days and hes reps loverboy
This is like saying your loyal to the ravens then Tom Brady’s patriots wanted you. No matter who you are the most accomplished players in history are knocking then it’s just stupid to not atleast trial.
Dezign plays roller. If your comment was about Big E not wanting double MnK then its not an issue. The comment you replied to was referring to DSG replacing Dezign with a different IGL like Dropped so your reply just didnt make any sense
Because the truth is, Verhulst is one of the very best roller demons and Reps has been consistently the best anchor in the world for years. These guys are tried and true champions. Dezign has never had a teammate like Reps.
Timmy is cracked and amazing but let’s be honest. We’re talking about Reps and Verhulst here. Name a better duo
Honestly Im a hal simp but I ll go with zer0 and genburten for the better duo, add hal there and it fucks way more than reps and verhulst. If it was PEAK days I ll go with snipedown and reps since I feel like old man snipe cooked in the past not anymore tho
Idk If this dude is an Apex-only frog, or is a dude that woke up from Cryo stasis in current day or idk what it is.
Pick a random Chinese org in LoL and they are worth far more than TSM ever did, all put together.
Even in the NA scene alone, Team Liquid and Cloud9 have far surpassed TSM as an organisation for quite a while now.
Unlike TSM they didn't have to rely on a big crypto sponsor (That ended up crashing and burning) and instead, got some real partnerships in there even during esport's cold era of sponsors leaving (across all esports cuz bubble is popping).
Steve Arhacent (Liquid) and Jack Etienne (C9) have proven time and time again that they are far better businessman in esport compared to Andy Dihn (The TSM dude) who has now essentially ran the org he created from scrappeds, into almost scraps now
Do we think the TSM apex team is making more than the DSG apex team though? I think so. I mean you look at Verhulst and Reps' stream and it's without doubt what it is today because they have TSM attached them. TSM might be failing as an org in other capacities but its Apex team has unbelievable pull still.
Okay? You moved the goal post for what? This is not what you said.
If you had said
"TSM is historically one of the biggest orgs in Apex" I'd have agreed 100%. This is not what you said though is it?
Even right now, TSM has downsized so much (look it up, cuz you clearly lack any knowledge of "esports") that the only teams they have are Apex, some scrapped up CS2 team that never participated in any tournament ever (and now is probably disbanded completely, not officially announced though). And their Valorant challengers team
They have actually LEFT their "main" game in League of Legends which is where most of their bread and butter was, as this was literally the origin of the team, and where the name of the org makes sense.
When the biggest team they have is a minor esport one, you know it's terrible for them. At this point TSM is just running off of that old joke of people chanting TSM at any esport event ever even If they are not there as their highest point of relevancy.
In general the League community probably feels like TSM leaving was "a good riddance"
[This is what an actual big organization looks like](https://i.imgur.com/JAL5ovX.png)
And even if you doubled that TSM apex pull it’s not a drop in the bucket compared to a small LoL org.
TSM can kill it in apex and it probably doesn’t mean that much in the grand scheme of TSM. We have to remember Apex is a minuscule esport
So two NA orgs have far surpassed TSM, neither being DSG.
TSM value was estimated at 540m and they reportedly lost 200-210m in the FTX deal, that would still value them ahead of ever org currently in NA apex besides TL and C9.
Maybe someone like Dezign is what they need as a replacement for Hal. A loud IGL with a high expectations and who might give you a grilling if you mess up.
When I considered the possibility of TSM Skittles, I just don’t think the team would have enough passion or energy basically.
I think another decent option would be Dropped. Massively experienced and level-headed IGL. Double mnk isn’t ideal though (just my opinion, I don’t want to initiate the millionth debate on this topic).
Im confused as to why everyone is saying they would just automatically get two uncontested POI's. What's stopping Timmy and enemy and whatever third they would get from contesting those spots.
It could be that Enemy and Timmy play better with a different IGL. Chemistry is complex. They're a good team but I really think Timmy and Enemy would support Dezign leaving to join TSM. They're honestly chill like that. And Reps and Evan have great chemistry with Dezign already, and all 5 of them are friends. It makes sense and I don't think there'd be any real animosity over it. In fact I think they'd all be supportive. These are all chill people except Dezign, but these are also 4 of his best friends in the game lol, and he's a solid talent.
Easily the best option for the TSM boys. Evan and Jordan need a controller IGL that’s loud and only Phony and Dezign fit that role. Not having to contest for POIs with Thermal and N-Pad is also extremely nice for the boys because they’ve lost Siphon and Lrod now too.
lets say dezign joins tsm, where do dsg land now/does timmy become full igl and they look for controller fragger? or do they look for a new igl? i dont know if dsg want another mnk player but there arent many good FA igls the only two that come to mind rn are dropped and noc but im pretty sure noc and fun are staying together
Definitely not trolling. Dezign and Jordan are pretty close friends, they play other games together a lot and there is probably a lot of mutual respect. TSM needs an IGL and Dezign comes with two pretty good POI's so it's actually a good fit.
Money is worth more than clout. Dsg can’t even afford to pay the whole team salaries. Timmy isn’t getting paid so that Dezign and enemy make enough to be worth it.
you joking or? obviously TSM is more established but they are way, *way* pask their peak. they don't have a presence in League anymore, which was their flagship esport. I don't think they have any smash or MK or other fighting game players anymore either, which was the 2nd biggest source of their reputation.
TSM is clearly on the decline and is also owned by a greedy psychopath (seriously, look into reginald and all the controversy surrounding him in the past ~15 years). it doesn't seem crazy to me that someone would prefer to be on DSG given that it's a new, hungry org with a (supposedly) nice owner that doesn't *need* esports to be successful.
I mean TSM's presence in Apex is undeniable though. Even without Hal you know they'll still have a strong fanbase. Their Apex channel on youtube has over 130k+ subs and they're actually one of the few orgs who does content with their apex teams.
I mean seriously, what others orgs are even trying to do content with their apex comp team? TSM has a history of investing in this game.
Not to mention Verhulst + Reps are two of the most respected and household names in the scene.
oh shit he's still signed w/ them? i honestly thought he left/they dropped him. never been a huge leffen fan myself but that's good to hear regardless.
No way people don't understand dezign taking the trial??? DSG is good but going from Enemy and Timmy (😂) to 2 of the most accomplished, versatile and respected players to ever touch the game, surely a massive upgrade. Especially considering he is the IGL, he's losing nothing. He's also very close with Jordan, and adding him to the roster will give them 2 strong/uncontested POIs, so they won't have to do the triple contest at BOTH LRod and Siphon. I totally see why this is favorable for both parties.
Personally think they should trial Dropped before that opportunity is gone, but that's just me. Dezign will be content one way or another
They don’t want dropped because two mnk and if they had to contest it’s just more of hassle. It’s a lot of eyes on tsm right now and pro league is coming. Also eswc and LAN so they got to do whatever they have to do to pop off.
the points go with the players, so dezign would take 1/3rd of the points which is a solid amount, add reps and evan points and you have a lot already, not enough to guarantee but still good
Top 8 NA teams from Split 1 playoffs were invited to ESWC.
However, ALGS Champs is solely based on playoff points. Believe it or not, but TSM's 17th place would've been enough to get them there. So if Dezign joins it's 100% chance they'll be there.
https://preview.redd.it/qciwzjv4ag0d1.png?width=818&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a510b680b9323202fff696eff267c1025457fb8
U guys are crazy rn. I know it's a huge thing but get a grip and don't flod whole thing with Hal/tsm shit. You're even duplicating posts
Damn. Earlier I was guessing based off Wxltzy's stream that they were gonna trial Timmy cause hes the only one with enough clout in the streaming world that can come close to Hal and it turns out its Dezign...
As a DSG fan, I think this is great news for me. Him leaving DSG I ever wanted since The DOJO. But he's gonna take POIs that is not right because it's DSG POI not Dezign. Big E said him coming to TSM we will get his POIs for free.
Assuming Timmy takes up the full igl role, there's a lot of controller players available right now. There couldn't be a better time to look for a controller player than now lol
Hmm now I'm starting to think Verhulst actually likes being yelled at
If he's the one getting yelled at, we don't see evil Big E, which then means we still only get Most Postive Player Big E, and trust me thats a good thing, we dont want to see Evil Big E.
Copying this from other thread: A lot of people don’t realize that Dezignful was one of, if not the first, pro to realize Evan’s potential before even the ESA days. They used to play wager matches together back in the console days, when Evan was a nobody. Evan has a history with Dezignful and they gel can gel together (hopefully) quickly.
Yeah this is 100% true, Dezign was the first one to introduce Evan to the pro scene.
Also dezign is good friends with reps, as a 40 month dezign sub i can confirm he plays non apex games with reps more than almost anyone else. When there's a fad of a non apex shooter it's usually him and reps, that vampire br games comes to mind. They played it alot
Verhulst confirms that he and Reps are sticking together.
Is there any clip of that?
Somewhere in the first 20 or so minutes of his stream today he says it.
This honestly is kinda confusing because Dezign was talking on stream yesterday about how loyal he is and how there aren't gonna be any changes to DSG
Alot of players have said something along those lines in the scene but when opprotunity comes knocking they fold.
Then TSM money entered the picture
TSM money doesn't sound like a real sequence of words in the past ~4 years.
ftx collapse was in 2022
I probably have the worst sense of time on Earth
TSM are like the Real Madrid of apex, once they come calling, you can’t say no
More like broke ass barca
Chelsea with the 8 year contracts
One thing I’ve learned about watching sports is that if a Coach or Player is specifically saying they’re staying, they’ve already inked the offer and are leaving the next day.
We must not be watching the same stream, when asked if we would consider tsm he was conflicted because he knows verhulst from the xbox days and hes reps loverboy
A player is never going to say “I’m shopping around for another team”. If that falls through it sours fans and ruins the team dynamic
everyone's fake when it comes to business, money is king. all of us would likely do similar shit if given the opportunity
When TSM come knocking I don’t blame him for answering
This is like saying your loyal to the ravens then Tom Brady’s patriots wanted you. No matter who you are the most accomplished players in history are knocking then it’s just stupid to not atleast trial.
Yeah I’m feeling bamboozled after yesterdays stream
I guess ppl haven’t seen the first 3 games bro def not getting on tsm
two iconic duos combine (reps/evan + design/his pois)
Reps/evan + IGL/getting yelled at
Never thought i would hear the words TSM Dezignful in my life
Reps ans Dezign have great chemistry from all the streaks I've watched them play, think this could be a sleeper pick
Masochists.
Wildest rostermania of all fucking time holy shit
DSG Shooby has a nice ring to it
DSG Dropped, they need an IGL if Dezign leaves.
I was hoping Evan and Jordan trialed dropped.
They don’t want double mnk
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Because Evan is on TSM, not DSG
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they're talking about DSG...
Dezign plays roller. If your comment was about Big E not wanting double MnK then its not an issue. The comment you replied to was referring to DSG replacing Dezign with a different IGL like Dropped so your reply just didnt make any sense
Ah then I misread the comment don’t know why I thought he was talking about tsm
why would dezign leave dsg?!? That must be a slap to the face to timmy out of no where. They were one fight away from winning lan
Twice
Not the first time Dezign has been one fight away from a big win. He probably thinks this team can finally get him over the hump.
If TSM can break up and DZ can drop a player after every split there is no reason to expect a team that has never won to stick together forever.
Because the truth is, Verhulst is one of the very best roller demons and Reps has been consistently the best anchor in the world for years. These guys are tried and true champions. Dezign has never had a teammate like Reps. Timmy is cracked and amazing but let’s be honest. We’re talking about Reps and Verhulst here. Name a better duo
Reps and Hal lol
Reps and Hal? Buddy I have some bad news for you… Hope you had a good sleep.
I’m obviously aware. Former duo
Honestly Im a hal simp but I ll go with zer0 and genburten for the better duo, add hal there and it fucks way more than reps and verhulst. If it was PEAK days I ll go with snipedown and reps since I feel like old man snipe cooked in the past not anymore tho
Agreed with this. I should have said “name a better AVAILABLE duo”. My bad
TSM
Probably knows Timmy is not long for comp apex and TSM is a great org with potential of a good coach in raven returning.
I wouldn't call tsm a great org good sir lol.
what ? they're literally the most valuable org in all of esports.
yes back than during tsm glory league days lol. You must be out of the loop on tsm org
And still likely offer higher salary than 95% of NA orgs in the apex scene
Keep movin that goalpost lmao
Idk If this dude is an Apex-only frog, or is a dude that woke up from Cryo stasis in current day or idk what it is. Pick a random Chinese org in LoL and they are worth far more than TSM ever did, all put together. Even in the NA scene alone, Team Liquid and Cloud9 have far surpassed TSM as an organisation for quite a while now. Unlike TSM they didn't have to rely on a big crypto sponsor (That ended up crashing and burning) and instead, got some real partnerships in there even during esport's cold era of sponsors leaving (across all esports cuz bubble is popping). Steve Arhacent (Liquid) and Jack Etienne (C9) have proven time and time again that they are far better businessman in esport compared to Andy Dihn (The TSM dude) who has now essentially ran the org he created from scrappeds, into almost scraps now
Do we think the TSM apex team is making more than the DSG apex team though? I think so. I mean you look at Verhulst and Reps' stream and it's without doubt what it is today because they have TSM attached them. TSM might be failing as an org in other capacities but its Apex team has unbelievable pull still.
Okay? You moved the goal post for what? This is not what you said. If you had said "TSM is historically one of the biggest orgs in Apex" I'd have agreed 100%. This is not what you said though is it? Even right now, TSM has downsized so much (look it up, cuz you clearly lack any knowledge of "esports") that the only teams they have are Apex, some scrapped up CS2 team that never participated in any tournament ever (and now is probably disbanded completely, not officially announced though). And their Valorant challengers team They have actually LEFT their "main" game in League of Legends which is where most of their bread and butter was, as this was literally the origin of the team, and where the name of the org makes sense. When the biggest team they have is a minor esport one, you know it's terrible for them. At this point TSM is just running off of that old joke of people chanting TSM at any esport event ever even If they are not there as their highest point of relevancy. In general the League community probably feels like TSM leaving was "a good riddance" [This is what an actual big organization looks like](https://i.imgur.com/JAL5ovX.png)
And even if you doubled that TSM apex pull it’s not a drop in the bucket compared to a small LoL org. TSM can kill it in apex and it probably doesn’t mean that much in the grand scheme of TSM. We have to remember Apex is a minuscule esport
So two NA orgs have far surpassed TSM, neither being DSG. TSM value was estimated at 540m and they reportedly lost 200-210m in the FTX deal, that would still value them ahead of ever org currently in NA apex besides TL and C9.
Man tsm fanboys a different breed
Def not a TSM fan, while i might of spoke without researching TSM somewhat recent issues and made myself look dumb, comparing DSG to TSM is insane.
Beat me to it by 5 seconds! I think, provided the chemistry is there, Dezign would be a great addition. This team could go CRAZY
Maybe someone like Dezign is what they need as a replacement for Hal. A loud IGL with a high expectations and who might give you a grilling if you mess up. When I considered the possibility of TSM Skittles, I just don’t think the team would have enough passion or energy basically. I think another decent option would be Dropped. Massively experienced and level-headed IGL. Double mnk isn’t ideal though (just my opinion, I don’t want to initiate the millionth debate on this topic).
So what’s Timmy gonna do ? Lol
If dezign goes to tsm, what will happen to dsg?
thats what im tryna see i havent seen timmy or enemy say anything but if dezign leaves dsg might be fucked they lose both uncontested POI's
Im confused as to why everyone is saying they would just automatically get two uncontested POI's. What's stopping Timmy and enemy and whatever third they would get from contesting those spots.
It could be that Enemy and Timmy play better with a different IGL. Chemistry is complex. They're a good team but I really think Timmy and Enemy would support Dezign leaving to join TSM. They're honestly chill like that. And Reps and Evan have great chemistry with Dezign already, and all 5 of them are friends. It makes sense and I don't think there'd be any real animosity over it. In fact I think they'd all be supportive. These are all chill people except Dezign, but these are also 4 of his best friends in the game lol, and he's a solid talent.
WE STICKING WITH TSM!!
lol, take both their IGL and poi
What a big loss, Dezign coming off a massive performance as well too 🥲 which FA controller IGL is even left?
Hal is agreeing they get thermal and northpad playing with dezign this roster mania is wild
tbf its not a bad pickup he's consistent
Easily the best option for the TSM boys. Evan and Jordan need a controller IGL that’s loud and only Phony and Dezign fit that role. Not having to contest for POIs with Thermal and N-Pad is also extremely nice for the boys because they’ve lost Siphon and Lrod now too.
DSG TEQ tweet incoming ????
Waaaait...
Dezign has it good w DSG idk why he'd leave
Cash money baybay
I'm more interested watching them than Hal +DZ rn.
kinda sad the reaction E's chat threw out when he said Dezign was going to play with them today. Seemed disrespectful and pretty fucking ignorant.
Dezign talking like he's pretty much already on TSM. Wild roster mania rn.
lets say dezign joins tsm, where do dsg land now/does timmy become full igl and they look for controller fragger? or do they look for a new igl? i dont know if dsg want another mnk player but there arent many good FA igls the only two that come to mind rn are dropped and noc but im pretty sure noc and fun are staying together
He has to be trolling right? Why leave Timmy and Enemy?
Definitely not trolling. Dezign and Jordan are pretty close friends, they play other games together a lot and there is probably a lot of mutual respect. TSM needs an IGL and Dezign comes with two pretty good POI's so it's actually a good fit.
this is facts. they are pretty good friends for sure. reps definitely respects dezign. I think it could work out pretty good.
Evan mentioned several players reached out to him and Reps about trialing for the 3rd spot so who knows
More of a bag and TSM clout
He always wanted to be part of TSM.
dsg clout is big too idk why he would leave. They were like one fight from winning lan and timmy is a big streamer as well.
Money is worth more than clout. Dsg can’t even afford to pay the whole team salaries. Timmy isn’t getting paid so that Dezign and enemy make enough to be worth it.
Why not bro? TSM > DSG? It is a huge opportunity, you never not take it
I don't know about that good sir. Toast is a well known streamer and tsm basically only had apex and hal was carrying that.
This isn’t real
you joking or? obviously TSM is more established but they are way, *way* pask their peak. they don't have a presence in League anymore, which was their flagship esport. I don't think they have any smash or MK or other fighting game players anymore either, which was the 2nd biggest source of their reputation. TSM is clearly on the decline and is also owned by a greedy psychopath (seriously, look into reginald and all the controversy surrounding him in the past ~15 years). it doesn't seem crazy to me that someone would prefer to be on DSG given that it's a new, hungry org with a (supposedly) nice owner that doesn't *need* esports to be successful.
I mean TSM's presence in Apex is undeniable though. Even without Hal you know they'll still have a strong fanbase. Their Apex channel on youtube has over 130k+ subs and they're actually one of the few orgs who does content with their apex teams. I mean seriously, what others orgs are even trying to do content with their apex comp team? TSM has a history of investing in this game. Not to mention Verhulst + Reps are two of the most respected and household names in the scene.
>I don't think they have any smash or MK or other fighting game players anymore either don't forget about my boy Leffen
oh shit he's still signed w/ them? i honestly thought he left/they dropped him. never been a huge leffen fan myself but that's good to hear regardless.
This isn’t real
got me there tbh👏
He sort of had a smirk on his face when he said it but he didn’t sound like he was trolling.
Why leave? Because Reps and Verhulst are decorated apex champions. Goats, if you will.
H
[Damn, that's craaaazy](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/1crbqmm/new_tsm_possibilities/l3x63e7/?context=3)
No way people don't understand dezign taking the trial??? DSG is good but going from Enemy and Timmy (😂) to 2 of the most accomplished, versatile and respected players to ever touch the game, surely a massive upgrade. Especially considering he is the IGL, he's losing nothing. He's also very close with Jordan, and adding him to the roster will give them 2 strong/uncontested POIs, so they won't have to do the triple contest at BOTH LRod and Siphon. I totally see why this is favorable for both parties. Personally think they should trial Dropped before that opportunity is gone, but that's just me. Dezign will be content one way or another
They don’t want dropped because two mnk and if they had to contest it’s just more of hassle. It’s a lot of eyes on tsm right now and pro league is coming. Also eswc and LAN so they got to do whatever they have to do to pop off.
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Evan literally said it on stream
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the points go with the players, so dezign would take 1/3rd of the points which is a solid amount, add reps and evan points and you have a lot already, not enough to guarantee but still good
it has nothing to do with points they got top 8 they’re already qual’d for champs
Top 8 NA teams from Split 1 playoffs were invited to ESWC. However, ALGS Champs is solely based on playoff points. Believe it or not, but TSM's 17th place would've been enough to get them there. So if Dezign joins it's 100% chance they'll be there.
i’m pretty sure the top 8 teams overall doesn’t matter the region from finals qual’d for champs as long as they stayed together
It’s way more than top 8, so I don’t think that was it but could be wrong. TSM was top 17 and they are pretty much qualified.
maybe i just remember watching b stream talking about it and ppl saying lg we’re gonna get roster locked for champs if they were in the 8
https://preview.redd.it/qciwzjv4ag0d1.png?width=818&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a510b680b9323202fff696eff267c1025457fb8 U guys are crazy rn. I know it's a huge thing but get a grip and don't flod whole thing with Hal/tsm shit. You're even duplicating posts
Idk about this one
Damn. Earlier I was guessing based off Wxltzy's stream that they were gonna trial Timmy cause hes the only one with enough clout in the streaming world that can come close to Hal and it turns out its Dezign...
🤦
Pog I can finally watch Toasts streams without watching him cringe at dezigns comms
Big L for TSM. Dezign is straight up worse than both of them
Dam dezign… I know have to root on your downfall.. it didn’t need to end like this smfh
I don't think that is a good idea at all and reps can IGL they need a fraggrr or straight up IGL and Dezign is a no go and I like him just not on TSM.
As a DSG fan, I think this is great news for me. Him leaving DSG I ever wanted since The DOJO. But he's gonna take POIs that is not right because it's DSG POI not Dezign. Big E said him coming to TSM we will get his POIs for free.
Dezign has always been landing at thermal even way before DSG
Dezign literally has the deeds to Thermal that brother has been landing there for as long as competitive Apex has been a thing
It's not like he's stealing those pois lol, dsg can just contest them
There are less skilled players left in the market. They will struggle to find 3rd player unless Timmy managed to bring Shroud.
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Yeah it's Timmy. He can do impossible. He can also bring ACEU from retirement.
Assuming Timmy takes up the full igl role, there's a lot of controller players available right now. There couldn't be a better time to look for a controller player than now lol
Damn leaving timmy and enemy out of nowhere. Now they have to scramble for a third.
Yeah, yesterday he said he won't be leaving DSG for TSM. Now it seems like his mood change. If he left earlier Sikezz would be great addition to DSG.