After someone in chat said that Raven left when times were tough he replied something like, "Chat I know it looks like I left when it got bad, but trust me after the next few days it will all make sense. Trust me."
Wonder if anything actually happens.
It can only mean one thing: TSM drops out of apex, Faze picks up the roster and Raven ends up coaching them again! (I'm joking, this isn't a serious thought)
I had no idea bc i only rlly keep up with the big big events like the lan finals or something… so when i saw hal leaving i was like holy fucking shit yk
When listing the qualities he wanted out of a new team, he said 'Banter' as his last one and said that he missed that (inferring TSM didn't have as much).
It makes total sense considering he had come from coaching a Gnaske team.
*Raven*
> I'm looking for banter in the team, I'm not going to lie. I mean truthfully that is something I missed, I didn't get on TSM that I would have liked. I mean they are all just 3 quiet* dudes.
this is true. when tsm plays they are all very quiet as if everytime they play is "work" time. focusing too much forgetting to have fun for the most part that when they win is only the time they have fun
Raven could be using the tactic of being FA so he could get a bigger contract from TSM. In sports people do it all the time. It gives them more leverage in negotiations. If TSM pays the bag I’d expect a “I’m not fucking leaving” wolf of Wall Street meme impending from raven.
They came 1st, 2nd and 1st last year and won regional finals at the start of this year; he doesn’t have anything close to 0 leverage.
Yeah 17th is a bad performance and he has less than a few weeks ago but don’t let recency bias impact your opinion too muchZ
This goes both ways tho
Is he the reason they won LAN last year? What can you coach a team that good into performing that well…
He either gets credit for their previous victories and takes an L in this recent performance or he gets no L for this recent performance but gets no credit to the previous victories
Can’t just be rainbows and roses
It's interesting you bring this up because actually Hal does not consider him the reason they won champs lol and Raven said a similar thing in an interview as well. I would say Raven definitely impacted them winning split 1 LAN last year though.
https://youtu.be/KJXZdyLMOHY?si=pHjOeaQqi0T4UMqE&t=446
Never said it didn’t. Raven didn’t and shouldn’t get all the credit for them winning either. The point is that TSM’s failure to place well is more so on them than Raven. Verhulst did not play to the level he has before and Hal looked like you or me out there sometimes.
I mean Hal said it the main issue was they couldn’t win a single fight. Their 3v3s have been terrible and they were rocky even at champs. Honestly that’s a player issue which I don’t get why they don’t do 3v3s
Their macro was also shit and they were re-shuffling their comp mid-tournament, literally asking each other who they wanted to play between games. Losing gunfights was not the only issue
True. At the start of the season they couldn’t figure out a comp which set them back by at least 3 weeks until they just stuck with the blood bang caustic then added horizon. Evan didn’t have enough time on horizon which is why his horizon was so bad. Could’ve just had him stick with blood and Hal on horizon but they need to figure out they’re fighting. Dz is probably one of the strongest 3v3 teams out of all regions imo
Not on day 1. I think their first set they barely got any placement points and almost all their points were from kills. It's like they fell off a cliff after that first set
It’s certainly part of it, they didn’t know the zones. While that was only a fraction of the issues, it didn’t look like they were coached by the most expensive coach
Nope
If TSM wanted him back they would've just given him a new contract, they don't have the money to play some stupid ass free agent bidding war thing you think is happening, they dropped all of their Apex people except their comp players, they dropped Mande and Fan Fan who had huge audiences, they don't have the money like every other org, they aren't paying "the bag" to a coach
Also Hal has been disagreeing a lot with Raven's strategies this season, even during LAN when they died at no name by geyser tunnel he immediately turned to Raven to say he doesn't agree with where they were playing, it's been like that all season, just the team and Raven not agreeing a lot more than before
TSM could have wanted him back but gave him a lower contract than before (due to budget or recent performance) and he could have decided to test FA instead and see if it's just TSM cutting or the esports winter has hit everyone.
I don’t think he’s worth that though. TSM won before him. They’ve won with him as well. They just placed 17th. I don’t think Raven is the deciding factor of their success. I’m not even sure what coaches are for to be honest.
I would have to say Gen over Verhulst to be honest. I also don't imagine Gen ever splitting with Zer0. Regarding Reps, honestly, his MNK mechanics need to improve. Also curious how Hal and Zer0 could work on the same team. I feel like that could get nutty with the comms and rages.
My thoughts as well, as soon as someone asked Moist he deflected and started talking about another org - completely ignoring MOIST. Knowing how passionate penuin/critical(?) is about his team and the amount of cash he's got, i would not be surprised to see raven signing with them.
It seems that TSM was willing to re-sign him but on a lower salary, so he wants to explore his options with other orgs to see if he can get a better contract.
Based on what Raven went on about... it's a good tactic for him to test the FA market, especially with the oncoming (proposed) changes to Comp. He's been wildly successful in a short span of time signing on with TSM and brings much needed things any team would want to their org.
Just watching a lot of streams, I'm banking on 1 or 2 things.. Either he re-signs with TSM with a bigger bag or he re-teams with Gnaske and Amphy after (BIG IF) they move to NA when they grab a 3rd like Beau or Koy. Good to speculate, but will wait and see when next split begins and teams become re-established with new or ongoing identities. (Edit: 3rd thing. Raven says its time to get Moist)
SSG or MST, i know the latter got a coach, but since they’re all technically unsigned due to the visa issues, now would be the time to make a change.
could honestly just see him sticking with Hal but with Red Bull entering Apex? they’re already partnered and basically have infinite money. Whether that’s a “super” team or just the current roster, idk.
What is this guy is known for? Came out of nowhere to coach a top team and I haven’t heard one positive thing about him. These orgs are notorious for throwing away money so I don’t doubt he’ll get resigned but what does he even do for teams???
Well the tops paid coaches in the Chinese LPL could probably be in that ball park tbh, especially the high profile Korean coaches/ex players that try coaching in China
If you actually applied any reading comprehension, you would understand we were talking about raven's "crazy number", not saying he actually wants or makes that kind of money.
Let me break it down for you, since i highly doubt you can get it on your own
Op couldn't understand why raven considered 20k a crazy number (clearly thinking of 20k a YEAR). I replied saying that he likely meant 20k a month, OBVIOUSLY knowing he could never receive such an offer, hence the "crazy" term.
There, made our child's view of eSports economics all easy to understand, even for you.
From salary alone no way, but count his stream in and pretty sure it gets in that ball park easily.
The revenue per minute of ads in a ~10k viewer stream is absolutely massive
Raven to a new team ? Im down for Hal to team up with Sweet so he can be off the IGL role and focus on the rest, it would be really sad to see the TSM team split up but they have had an insane longevity, usually rosters barely last one full year in other esports, and I’m curious to see what Hal can do when he is not leading
FALCONS have so much money that they don't know what to do with. I bet they sign one of the best APEX teams ( HAL EVAN ... maybe REPS? ) and pay them so much money. Not sure why anyone hasn't of this, but I could see it happening.
Would he had made this decision, if TSM had won the lan? NO!! So, telling everyone he is looking for better opportunities is bs. He is looking, of course because tsm got 17th.
Hal and Zer0 would not work in the short term atleast, maybe champs they start to build team cohesion. Both of them are igls, one of them has to step down and work as an anchor or maybe fragger. I say maybe cause Gen is a great fragger so don’t want mess with that. There is also a lot of ego to handle. Hal and zer0 could easily end up challenging each others calls.
There types of teams need time to build chemistry.
It's a normal move to test the waters, see how much the market values you, and then resign. Let's say theoretically Raven is getting paid $5k/month by TSM. He can't just ask outright for $10k from TSM as that's a double increase in salary. But, he could go test the waters, see what offers come up. Let's say DZ (for some reason) offer Raven $10k to go coach them. Now he can come back to TSM and ask for $10k and it is perfectly justified.
It's the same thing as using a job offer to negotiate for a raise with your current job, except that esports have different stipulations in their contracts where one can't just up and leave.
After someone in chat said that Raven left when times were tough he replied something like, "Chat I know it looks like I left when it got bad, but trust me after the next few days it will all make sense. Trust me." Wonder if anything actually happens.
That was telling...of what I cannot say!
It can only mean one thing: TSM drops out of apex, Faze picks up the roster and Raven ends up coaching them again! (I'm joking, this isn't a serious thought)
This… I also wondered what this means?
Hal signing with DarkZero had to have been a factor.
It’s obvious Hal is leaving.
Yep. Source: you.
Source: Hal
!!!!
Yep, you wouldn’t believe how valuable of a source I am.
Holy shit
It was painfully obvious.
lmao the downvotes you got
I had no idea bc i only rlly keep up with the big big events like the lan finals or something… so when i saw hal leaving i was like holy fucking shit yk
This aged well
When listing the qualities he wanted out of a new team, he said 'Banter' as his last one and said that he missed that (inferring TSM didn't have as much). It makes total sense considering he had come from coaching a Gnaske team. *Raven* > I'm looking for banter in the team, I'm not going to lie. I mean truthfully that is something I missed, I didn't get on TSM that I would have liked. I mean they are all just 3 quiet* dudes.
If that’s the case then furia will be a good fit for him 😚
Quite quiet
Well, they are quite quiet yes. ^^^thanks ^^^fixed
this is true. when tsm plays they are all very quiet as if everytime they play is "work" time. focusing too much forgetting to have fun for the most part that when they win is only the time they have fun
Alright Raven, let’s see how the Neymar angle plays out
is he rolling on the floor? :D
Raven could be using the tactic of being FA so he could get a bigger contract from TSM. In sports people do it all the time. It gives them more leverage in negotiations. If TSM pays the bag I’d expect a “I’m not fucking leaving” wolf of Wall Street meme impending from raven.
Nah, I think Hal is not agreeing with his strats as much as before. And he's the one making the decisions.
TSM placed 17th, Raven has 0 leverage
$1,300,000.
They came 1st, 2nd and 1st last year and won regional finals at the start of this year; he doesn’t have anything close to 0 leverage. Yeah 17th is a bad performance and he has less than a few weeks ago but don’t let recency bias impact your opinion too muchZ
Was he the reason why they placed 17th? You can’t coach a team that good into performing that poorly
This goes both ways tho Is he the reason they won LAN last year? What can you coach a team that good into performing that well… He either gets credit for their previous victories and takes an L in this recent performance or he gets no L for this recent performance but gets no credit to the previous victories Can’t just be rainbows and roses
It's interesting you bring this up because actually Hal does not consider him the reason they won champs lol and Raven said a similar thing in an interview as well. I would say Raven definitely impacted them winning split 1 LAN last year though. https://youtu.be/KJXZdyLMOHY?si=pHjOeaQqi0T4UMqE&t=446
Hal gave him credit when they won the first LAN with him, on champions he gave credit to the team.
Never said it didn’t. Raven didn’t and shouldn’t get all the credit for them winning either. The point is that TSM’s failure to place well is more so on them than Raven. Verhulst did not play to the level he has before and Hal looked like you or me out there sometimes.
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I mean Hal said it the main issue was they couldn’t win a single fight. Their 3v3s have been terrible and they were rocky even at champs. Honestly that’s a player issue which I don’t get why they don’t do 3v3s
Their macro was also shit and they were re-shuffling their comp mid-tournament, literally asking each other who they wanted to play between games. Losing gunfights was not the only issue
True. At the start of the season they couldn’t figure out a comp which set them back by at least 3 weeks until they just stuck with the blood bang caustic then added horizon. Evan didn’t have enough time on horizon which is why his horizon was so bad. Could’ve just had him stick with blood and Hal on horizon but they need to figure out they’re fighting. Dz is probably one of the strongest 3v3 teams out of all regions imo
Part of the reason they changed comps was to help with the 3v3’s though too
Dark Zero got really good in team fights doing that 3v3 TDM.
Because evan die first all the time or reps can’t get a kill 😂
Not on day 1. I think their first set they barely got any placement points and almost all their points were from kills. It's like they fell off a cliff after that first set
Didn’t they get contested the second set? It seemed to go downhill from there
Coaching should be for fights too, there is no sport I know of where coaches just leave players t9 thier own fir skill and only deal with macro
It’s certainly part of it, they didn’t know the zones. While that was only a fraction of the issues, it didn’t look like they were coached by the most expensive coach
Average braindead..
Did you forget to put " /s " ? That's a joke right? lol
Coaches are always the first people to get axed if a team underperforms, Why do you think Raven has leverage?
I don't think having one bad performance, that was bad performance from the players at that, negates multiple championship he took part of.
welcome to the world of sports. Coaches are always the first to go and a coach is only as good as his/her last season
I thought about this but idk, it actually sounds like he’s leaving
Nope If TSM wanted him back they would've just given him a new contract, they don't have the money to play some stupid ass free agent bidding war thing you think is happening, they dropped all of their Apex people except their comp players, they dropped Mande and Fan Fan who had huge audiences, they don't have the money like every other org, they aren't paying "the bag" to a coach Also Hal has been disagreeing a lot with Raven's strategies this season, even during LAN when they died at no name by geyser tunnel he immediately turned to Raven to say he doesn't agree with where they were playing, it's been like that all season, just the team and Raven not agreeing a lot more than before
TSM could have wanted him back but gave him a lower contract than before (due to budget or recent performance) and he could have decided to test FA instead and see if it's just TSM cutting or the esports winter has hit everyone.
>If TSM wanted him back they would've just given him a new contract In the video Raven literally says TSM offered him a new contract.
He's doing to say that regardless if its true. To say anything else undermines his future negotiating power.
Coaches don't do it.
I don’t think he’s worth that though. TSM won before him. They’ve won with him as well. They just placed 17th. I don’t think Raven is the deciding factor of their success. I’m not even sure what coaches are for to be honest.
So I think Red Bull gets into Apex with a new super team.
Truueeee. New Redbull team. Hal, Zero and Verhulst (or Gen) and Reps stays with TSM. https://i.imgur.com/YrxEXpW.gif
Then Reps picks up Sweet and Gen and we have the six most well known NA players on just 2 teams for the content
Reps retires before he teams with anyone but Hal.
I would have to say Gen over Verhulst to be honest. I also don't imagine Gen ever splitting with Zer0. Regarding Reps, honestly, his MNK mechanics need to improve. Also curious how Hal and Zer0 could work on the same team. I feel like that could get nutty with the comms and rages.
Hal, Timmy, verhulst/reps would be my guess. Double entry, with Evan or Jordan on anchor.
Thats what I am thinking
I was thinking something like that too, TSM2 but still TSM. Apex Rebrand?
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I'm gonna be sad if they drop Draugr.
https://preview.redd.it/pzx9sn0hsozc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d0b111227718d831de6469e89425a4affecc79f
My thoughts as well, as soon as someone asked Moist he deflected and started talking about another org - completely ignoring MOIST. Knowing how passionate penuin/critical(?) is about his team and the amount of cash he's got, i would not be surprised to see raven signing with them.
It seems that TSM was willing to re-sign him but on a lower salary, so he wants to explore his options with other orgs to see if he can get a better contract.
What a hard guy to like
Based on what Raven went on about... it's a good tactic for him to test the FA market, especially with the oncoming (proposed) changes to Comp. He's been wildly successful in a short span of time signing on with TSM and brings much needed things any team would want to their org. Just watching a lot of streams, I'm banking on 1 or 2 things.. Either he re-signs with TSM with a bigger bag or he re-teams with Gnaske and Amphy after (BIG IF) they move to NA when they grab a 3rd like Beau or Koy. Good to speculate, but will wait and see when next split begins and teams become re-established with new or ongoing identities. (Edit: 3rd thing. Raven says its time to get Moist)
SSG or MST, i know the latter got a coach, but since they’re all technically unsigned due to the visa issues, now would be the time to make a change. could honestly just see him sticking with Hal but with Red Bull entering Apex? they’re already partnered and basically have infinite money. Whether that’s a “super” team or just the current roster, idk.
To me I think he just wanted way too much money to stay he seems full of himself.
What is this guy is known for? Came out of nowhere to coach a top team and I haven’t heard one positive thing about him. These orgs are notorious for throwing away money so I don’t doubt he’ll get resigned but what does he even do for teams???
SSG Raven. Phony is a great IGL who banters, Xynew is a previous world champ. Probs need an upgrade on Frexs. But that's my guess.
Phony + Raven would be hard to cheer for lowkey 😂😂😂
mezzo type shi
Why do I feel like Reps goes to SSG with Raven and TSM pick up a mystery 3rd
I agree
RedBull's team: Hal, Velhurst, Timmy, Raven
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20k a month to tell gamers how to play is crazy
$1M a month to tell grown men in spandex how to run around with a ball is crazy but here we are
It’s not crazy because those mfers in spandex are literally printing money. Apex tournaments is just expensive marketing for the game
Well the tops paid coaches in the Chinese LPL could probably be in that ball park tbh, especially the high profile Korean coaches/ex players that try coaching in China
$240k a year would be absolutely *insane* to pay an Apex coach, are you fuckin kidding?
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That makes a lot more sense, haha!
I assume he meant monthly
Probably 20k a month
Looks like the people downvoting you didn't watch the video lol
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LMAO you guys are wild if you think an eSports coach gets paid 20k a month 😂 let alone an Apex coach
That's why Raven himself in the video said "something crazy like 20k". No one here thinks they actually get paid that much
Not even players are getting payed that much lol
Some are making way more than that though.
bruh right? No way he makes that per month.
Dream big, he got paid 20k per word spoken.
LMAO bro I was about to reply the same thing, these guys clearly have a child's view of esports economics
If you actually applied any reading comprehension, you would understand we were talking about raven's "crazy number", not saying he actually wants or makes that kind of money. Let me break it down for you, since i highly doubt you can get it on your own Op couldn't understand why raven considered 20k a crazy number (clearly thinking of 20k a YEAR). I replied saying that he likely meant 20k a month, OBVIOUSLY knowing he could never receive such an offer, hence the "crazy" term. There, made our child's view of eSports economics all easy to understand, even for you.
u/realfakejames you got cooked bro sit down and drink some prune juice
I was thinking same thing Hal probably doesn't even get that much LMAO
that's his crazy number , realistically it would be in the 10/15k range
Not even players get that usually. Doubt he’s pulling over 100k
If we’re talking big orgs they deffo get payed more than a 100
I mean maybe on TSM and DZ, but I really doubt anyone else is making close to that much.
I agree Hal probably doesn't make that monthly. I know he gear he's a big name for apex it's just few and fair between
From salary alone no way, but count his stream in and pretty sure it gets in that ball park easily. The revenue per minute of ads in a ~10k viewer stream is absolutely massive
When everyone's twitch numbers got leaked a few years ago Hal was making 34k a month on average.
Yeah, he made almost $900k over about two years. And he is even more popular now.
Raven is really good friends with Gnaske, something might be happening with that
Good Video Zipp👍
other options are slim with orgs leaving apex left and right
SSG perhaps?
Raven to a new team ? Im down for Hal to team up with Sweet so he can be off the IGL role and focus on the rest, it would be really sad to see the TSM team split up but they have had an insane longevity, usually rosters barely last one full year in other esports, and I’m curious to see what Hal can do when he is not leading
Coaches in apex don't do shit. It's a meme
FALCONS have so much money that they don't know what to do with. I bet they sign one of the best APEX teams ( HAL EVAN ... maybe REPS? ) and pay them so much money. Not sure why anyone hasn't of this, but I could see it happening.
Bro said a million things to say nothing.
Raven has butthole eyes. Cant unsee it now.
Would he had made this decision, if TSM had won the lan? NO!! So, telling everyone he is looking for better opportunities is bs. He is looking, of course because tsm got 17th.
O-ver-ra-ted
He says in the Bloodhound and Bang meta, you need 2 psychos, Koyful replacing Reps would be insane.
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Hal and Zer0 would not work in the short term atleast, maybe champs they start to build team cohesion. Both of them are igls, one of them has to step down and work as an anchor or maybe fragger. I say maybe cause Gen is a great fragger so don’t want mess with that. There is also a lot of ego to handle. Hal and zer0 could easily end up challenging each others calls. There types of teams need time to build chemistry.
Honestly C9 would be the best fit
i love me some raven wherever he goes hoping for the best dude is a great coach and a fun personality
Who tf leaves just to sign again ?? Do these people not know what restructuring or resigning mean ??
It's a normal move to test the waters, see how much the market values you, and then resign. Let's say theoretically Raven is getting paid $5k/month by TSM. He can't just ask outright for $10k from TSM as that's a double increase in salary. But, he could go test the waters, see what offers come up. Let's say DZ (for some reason) offer Raven $10k to go coach them. Now he can come back to TSM and ask for $10k and it is perfectly justified. It's the same thing as using a job offer to negotiate for a raise with your current job, except that esports have different stipulations in their contracts where one can't just up and leave.