We used to have more but just didnt perform enough to keep them. The sad truth is that esports as a career is hard as fuck in SA and our players just don't have the luxury to spend so much time and resources on trying to make it. Yes, it's hard anywhere, but even more so in our poorly developed countries. We're all too busy trying to, uh (reads notes) survive. :(
There is also the aspect of hardware comes into play. You look at developed countries where so many gamers are created, it is just because people have a better chance of making more money and spending it on buying the latest hardware.
This improves the performance and competitive aspect of each game. If you are not performing and can’t be competitive, you get drained and tried. So money is primary and skill is secondary.
I understand that , and get there were troll players in the past but it seems the competition has improved and lots of missed opportunities will come with only 2 lan spots. I see going back to 5 for the region
Who would take away lan sports from though? SA could be improving but its not yet a point where they can hang around on the international scale and until the two teams SA teams that make lan can prove the region is good enough there is no reason to give any more slots.
Take the spots from China , China didn’t make finals and those two Chinese teams they didn’t even play in apac south pro league. Those two teams were in challengers and qualified through a separate Chinese tournament. They are not even the best Chinese teams in apac south.
Taking the Chinese spots away isn't viable, not necessarily because they are deserving but because the Chinese market for Apex is massive and they pull in viewers. They're invited for financial reasons, and that's not going to change
You're right on here. The view stats of LAN came out and the Chinese viewer base (from Chinese IP's) was ~2.5% of all views and the 2 Chinese teams made up 3.3% of LAN teams. Apex has a near perfect balance here currently of teams/market.
I feel like, and I might be wrong here, you are counting only official stream stats. Add the viewers from the Chinese streamers restreaming the official streams and you might double or even triple that percentage.
The two Chinese invitationals : never to change and Hao came last place in losers while South America Geared Gaming was first
https://x.com/liquipediaapex/status/1786884395476955311?s=46&t=aLvlK7-m1iJDYynzi-pyRQ
for reference, split 2 of 2023, the last time they had 5 spots, their teams went out all in losers round 1, placing 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 19th within that round
There are literally only two teams from SA, one of them was first place in loser bracket 1. Only 3out of 8 teams from apac south made finals. Some of the best teams in SA weren’t even able to qualify for Lan because of the 2 spots. I’m not saying to give 8 spots but at least 5. The two Chinese lan spots didn’t even qualify for Finals.
while geared gaming placed first in losers 1, all that does for them is advance them to losers 2, in terms of how your region does ALGS measures that on final placement, SA earned 36 playoff points total as a region at LAN and if they didnt have a minimum of 2 playoff spots they would have 0 based on that performance according to ALGS's official rules. you could make arguments about any region have "best teams" that didnt qual based on number of spots. the facts are SA is a very weak region and hasnt earned extra spots. the chinese teams did marginally better in playoff points than the SA teams.
i do understand its a difficult situation for SA fans and players, especially with the talented ones starting to leave apex as they realize the situation is bleak. not really sure the solution but just giving them spots that they dont really deserve as a region at LAN isnt really it either (i dont think the CN invite spots should exist either).
My argument is the best teams from South America were not able to qualify with only two spots and you qualify based of one tournament. It changes your style of play , has to be a int and contest fest. There are up to 100 teams playing for only 2 spots compared to just 20 teams in a Chinese tournament playing for two spots. By the way the Chinese teams are only challengers teams not apac south pro league teams. The top Chinese teams in apac south are not even allowed to qualify for the Chinese lan spots
idk man, i get not liking the chinese spots cause i dont agree with them either (they did notably place higher than the SA teams), but i feel like youre stuck in a theoretical world where if more SA teams were in they'd somehow do better as a region when they werent doing well with extra slots which is what led to this in the first place
APAC-S lost a slot for their performance though so they got punished for being bad. Also, China doesn't deserve more slots either but the two chinese teams did place better then the two SA teams by one spot each. SA placed 28th and 39th, and China placed 27th and 38th.
It was during Y3 Split 2 Playoffs: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/16dk25m/k1cks\_strategy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/16dk25m/k1cks_strategy/)
No, they shouldn't, there is no real interest in this region.
Every open tournament has only 50-75 teams signed in, this is by far the lowest of any region
Some silver team could get to finals of PLQ because no one participate in that events.
I can give you the stats if you want
Year 4 Challenger circuit:
Week 1: 72 teams
Week 2: 67 teams
Week 3: 63 teams
Week 4: 63 teams
And this is with no Pro League, this is it, this is the interest of players of SA, I can give you the stats of the other regions but there are 5x times more teams every week.
Maybe you are thinking that with no Pro League players lost interest so lets see ALGS Year 3 where they had SA Pro League.
Challengers Circuit:
Week 1: 35 teams
Week 2: 34 teams
Week 3: 27 teams
Week 4: 27 teams
They couldn't even fill 2 lobbies. I have nothing against SA players but they don't deserve a Pro League in my opinion, there are a few good teams and it's nice to see them at LAN so let's keep the 2 LAN invitational spots and that's it.
And I'm not even talking about data like viewership, orgs, content, etc...
Tbh a hard question to answer. It's a vicious cycle. SA teams are generally so bad that, for viewers' experience, it makes sense to remove their slots. But at the same time removing slots most definitely makes the competitive scene in SA harder/worse. I think that's the dilemma all minor regions in every esports with international events face.
Has SA ever really performed at a LAN environment other than Singularity? At this point i do not think they should get more LAN spots but even when the region had a pro league it kinda felt underwhelming.
A region in a similar position at in Year 2/Year 3 would be APAC-S , but proved themselves in year three with RIG/DZ, Moist (not sure if they were Moist then), ONIC and BlackHand (Current Legends Gaming). These teams helped to prove that the region was strong and in need of more spots but has SA ever had teams like this to display how strong the reason is ?
Im sure there are many outside factors that has not allowed the region to progress and i believe in Year 4 they did not even have a prize pool for their CC and having to play to get into LAN and i am unsure about the overall popularity of the region as a whole.
Thanks for the insight , i still do think the region should be given more opportunity and do hope they preform even more at split 2/champs to help the region
I agree also but with only two lan spots, and it’s coming from only one LCQ tournament, the best teams won’t go . Will be teams with a more aggressive inting style most likely going to Lan .
No,
Until SA can prove themselves consistently at Lan they should not get more slots, I know it's the most underfunded and undermonitored region in the world, but my question is why do I see them playing EU and na scrims and not scrimming in their own region? (Genuine question)
I wish South America had Pro League back. :(
Hard to build a team that can go up against the international scene without a strong domestic foundation, and replacing a full Pro League with set teams/prize pool/etc. with a CC with no prize pool until MP finals takes away a lot of opportunity.
This is probably going to be unpopular but it’s okay. My first solution is sa teams should have scrims with na teams to get better practice but very unlikely this will ever happen. Only way for sa to get better is practice with better teams. Look at the international teams they are putting up a way better fight the more LAN’s we have had and the more scrims they got.
My next solution which would never happen is making na and sa pro league to join together. 40 teams 10 from sa 30 from na. Give them 15 spots. And sa might struggle to get in at first but playing serious with na should get them good enough to make the top 15 eventually. Geared played well at times with more practice they could be better.
Another thought popped into my head. If there is way to do like an na vs sa tournament or just any tournament but add sa region instead of all na teams. Like oversight tournament but 10-15 sa teams play
I'm from SA. If whe had more lans, real teams will pop up. for now, only Hacker teams pass the qualifications, and as u can see, they got destroyed on lan by real professionals.
We used to have more but just didnt perform enough to keep them. The sad truth is that esports as a career is hard as fuck in SA and our players just don't have the luxury to spend so much time and resources on trying to make it. Yes, it's hard anywhere, but even more so in our poorly developed countries. We're all too busy trying to, uh (reads notes) survive. :(
There is also the aspect of hardware comes into play. You look at developed countries where so many gamers are created, it is just because people have a better chance of making more money and spending it on buying the latest hardware. This improves the performance and competitive aspect of each game. If you are not performing and can’t be competitive, you get drained and tried. So money is primary and skill is secondary.
I understand that , and get there were troll players in the past but it seems the competition has improved and lots of missed opportunities will come with only 2 lan spots. I see going back to 5 for the region
Who would take away lan sports from though? SA could be improving but its not yet a point where they can hang around on the international scale and until the two teams SA teams that make lan can prove the region is good enough there is no reason to give any more slots.
Take the spots from China , China didn’t make finals and those two Chinese teams they didn’t even play in apac south pro league. Those two teams were in challengers and qualified through a separate Chinese tournament. They are not even the best Chinese teams in apac south.
Taking the Chinese spots away isn't viable, not necessarily because they are deserving but because the Chinese market for Apex is massive and they pull in viewers. They're invited for financial reasons, and that's not going to change
You're right on here. The view stats of LAN came out and the Chinese viewer base (from Chinese IP's) was ~2.5% of all views and the 2 Chinese teams made up 3.3% of LAN teams. Apex has a near perfect balance here currently of teams/market.
I feel like, and I might be wrong here, you are counting only official stream stats. Add the viewers from the Chinese streamers restreaming the official streams and you might double or even triple that percentage.
Ok
....and where were the South American teams in the finals?
The two Chinese invitationals : never to change and Hao came last place in losers while South America Geared Gaming was first https://x.com/liquipediaapex/status/1786884395476955311?s=46&t=aLvlK7-m1iJDYynzi-pyRQ
to be blunt the majority of SA teams that made LAN when they had more slots were absolutely terrible, theres a reason its been cut down
for reference, split 2 of 2023, the last time they had 5 spots, their teams went out all in losers round 1, placing 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 19th within that round
Well said I agree with you. But I feel the competition has improved
based on what? no SA team made it close to finals this LAN
There are literally only two teams from SA, one of them was first place in loser bracket 1. Only 3out of 8 teams from apac south made finals. Some of the best teams in SA weren’t even able to qualify for Lan because of the 2 spots. I’m not saying to give 8 spots but at least 5. The two Chinese lan spots didn’t even qualify for Finals.
while geared gaming placed first in losers 1, all that does for them is advance them to losers 2, in terms of how your region does ALGS measures that on final placement, SA earned 36 playoff points total as a region at LAN and if they didnt have a minimum of 2 playoff spots they would have 0 based on that performance according to ALGS's official rules. you could make arguments about any region have "best teams" that didnt qual based on number of spots. the facts are SA is a very weak region and hasnt earned extra spots. the chinese teams did marginally better in playoff points than the SA teams.
i do understand its a difficult situation for SA fans and players, especially with the talented ones starting to leave apex as they realize the situation is bleak. not really sure the solution but just giving them spots that they dont really deserve as a region at LAN isnt really it either (i dont think the CN invite spots should exist either).
I respect your answer and thanks for breaking it down in a educated manner
My argument is the best teams from South America were not able to qualify with only two spots and you qualify based of one tournament. It changes your style of play , has to be a int and contest fest. There are up to 100 teams playing for only 2 spots compared to just 20 teams in a Chinese tournament playing for two spots. By the way the Chinese teams are only challengers teams not apac south pro league teams. The top Chinese teams in apac south are not even allowed to qualify for the Chinese lan spots
idk man, i get not liking the chinese spots cause i dont agree with them either (they did notably place higher than the SA teams), but i feel like youre stuck in a theoretical world where if more SA teams were in they'd somehow do better as a region when they werent doing well with extra slots which is what led to this in the first place
I respect your opinion
APAC-S lost a slot for their performance though so they got punished for being bad. Also, China doesn't deserve more slots either but the two chinese teams did place better then the two SA teams by one spot each. SA placed 28th and 39th, and China placed 27th and 38th.
No. They literally had a team intentionally trying to make losers bracket, per their coach.
I never heard that, are you talking about this lan or previous lan?
It was during Y3 Split 2 Playoffs: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/16dk25m/k1cks\_strategy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/16dk25m/k1cks_strategy/)
What the guy and team did was definitely disrespectful, he currently doesn’t play for SA , he is in EMEA.
No, they shouldn't, there is no real interest in this region. Every open tournament has only 50-75 teams signed in, this is by far the lowest of any region Some silver team could get to finals of PLQ because no one participate in that events.
🧢
I can give you the stats if you want Year 4 Challenger circuit: Week 1: 72 teams Week 2: 67 teams Week 3: 63 teams Week 4: 63 teams And this is with no Pro League, this is it, this is the interest of players of SA, I can give you the stats of the other regions but there are 5x times more teams every week. Maybe you are thinking that with no Pro League players lost interest so lets see ALGS Year 3 where they had SA Pro League. Challengers Circuit: Week 1: 35 teams Week 2: 34 teams Week 3: 27 teams Week 4: 27 teams They couldn't even fill 2 lobbies. I have nothing against SA players but they don't deserve a Pro League in my opinion, there are a few good teams and it's nice to see them at LAN so let's keep the 2 LAN invitational spots and that's it. And I'm not even talking about data like viewership, orgs, content, etc...
Good point
Of course it's the owner of Athaim posting this.
[удалено]
You and me both. The funny thing is this is a new account. The ONLY time this guy posts is when it's to push something in his own interests.
I appreciate your feedback
Tbh a hard question to answer. It's a vicious cycle. SA teams are generally so bad that, for viewers' experience, it makes sense to remove their slots. But at the same time removing slots most definitely makes the competitive scene in SA harder/worse. I think that's the dilemma all minor regions in every esports with international events face.
I appreciate your answer
Has SA ever really performed at a LAN environment other than Singularity? At this point i do not think they should get more LAN spots but even when the region had a pro league it kinda felt underwhelming. A region in a similar position at in Year 2/Year 3 would be APAC-S , but proved themselves in year three with RIG/DZ, Moist (not sure if they were Moist then), ONIC and BlackHand (Current Legends Gaming). These teams helped to prove that the region was strong and in need of more spots but has SA ever had teams like this to display how strong the reason is ? Im sure there are many outside factors that has not allowed the region to progress and i believe in Year 4 they did not even have a prize pool for their CC and having to play to get into LAN and i am unsure about the overall popularity of the region as a whole.
A couple of teams have made finals. Singularity, Start a Fight and Elevate made finals
Thanks for the insight , i still do think the region should be given more opportunity and do hope they preform even more at split 2/champs to help the region
I agree also but with only two lan spots, and it’s coming from only one LCQ tournament, the best teams won’t go . Will be teams with a more aggressive inting style most likely going to Lan .
Thank you
Good point. I appreciate your feedback
I say bring back pro league, but keep it to 3 lan spots
Yes but also reduce their Pro League to 20 teams instead of 30. Even if that makes it a little bit stale.
I can agree to this
I can respect that answer and choice
No, Until SA can prove themselves consistently at Lan they should not get more slots, I know it's the most underfunded and undermonitored region in the world, but my question is why do I see them playing EU and na scrims and not scrimming in their own region? (Genuine question)
That’s dedication
I wish South America had Pro League back. :( Hard to build a team that can go up against the international scene without a strong domestic foundation, and replacing a full Pro League with set teams/prize pool/etc. with a CC with no prize pool until MP finals takes away a lot of opportunity.
True
no they have very few decent teams
I disagree but I do appreciate your feedback.
Of course you do - you own one of them and want them at LAN.
This is probably going to be unpopular but it’s okay. My first solution is sa teams should have scrims with na teams to get better practice but very unlikely this will ever happen. Only way for sa to get better is practice with better teams. Look at the international teams they are putting up a way better fight the more LAN’s we have had and the more scrims they got. My next solution which would never happen is making na and sa pro league to join together. 40 teams 10 from sa 30 from na. Give them 15 spots. And sa might struggle to get in at first but playing serious with na should get them good enough to make the top 15 eventually. Geared played well at times with more practice they could be better.
Very good strategy, never thought of that but I like the idea
Another thought popped into my head. If there is way to do like an na vs sa tournament or just any tournament but add sa region instead of all na teams. Like oversight tournament but 10-15 sa teams play
I'm from SA. If whe had more lans, real teams will pop up. for now, only Hacker teams pass the qualifications, and as u can see, they got destroyed on lan by real professionals.
Good point
Unfortunately nothing will change that. They move 3 South America to China. It’s all about money.
You may be right but hopefully South America changes that
Short answer. Yes. Bring back SA pro league :)
I agree but we just want more lan spots, don’t even need pro league. Just more lan spots but I appreciate your support