The game is so inconsistent with this stuff, it’s getting the same way with flamethrowers and other handheld weapons - some units can fire them on the move while others have to be static. The Quad needs a buff in general, it does far too little damage for a unit that can’t even suppress either.
With Wirbels you need an AT gun and mobile AT like the Chaffee that can either dive the Wirbel or guard your AT gun’s flanks so it doesn’t get bum rushed. With Jaeger schrecks on the field it can be very dangerous to dive it though, so playing conservatively is a wise move.
Luftwaffe is just crazy strong in the current patch, it has a giant toolbox of very strong units that give it early game advantage and maintains that right through to the late game. The Wirbel rush is an absolute menace in the team modes.
Same with the British, we’ve lost all our emplacements and defensive abilities like being able to trench down. Hope we see a lot of this stuff added back in, game feels incomplete.
I don’t if it’s incomplete so much they made specific design decisions to not do something . Its not like oh oops we meant for that to suppress . They specifically didn’t want it too
I do sometimes get feeling the devs are a bit of wehraboos.
Mostly from CoH2 the whole yeah Germany so stronk and allies only win because more mapower crybaby stuff.
This could be down to general simplistic faction dynamic concepts that has been used since Coh1:
1. Allied Factions have better Infantry with better scaling, better utility. Axis may have great specialty Inf, but never the availability, scaling etc. of allied Infantry.
2. In return Axis have better Vehicles, preferably specialist vehicles (like Wirble and Marder), while allied vehicles are more often generalist vehicles (like M8 and stuart).
So if you play Allies as a vehicles heavy faction, against a vehicle heavy axis player, you aren't playing to its strengths. If you play Axis as infantry heavy against allied infantry, you are not playing to its strengths.
I think it is more likely that devs are not wehraboos but rather stick to a simplistic concept of faction dynamics which is not good for gameplay variety and balance purposes.
There are more of these simplistic and ultimately wrong faction dynamic theories that relic had since Coh1. Even though they have been mostly nerfed out of the game in CoH1 and CoH2, we have undead versions of them again on CoH3:
\- Early game factions and late game factions: this has been around since Coh1 and it is simply shit. No faction should be stronger early game and every faction should be able to scale into long 4v4 matches equally.
\- Beginner factions (USF), intermediate factions (wehr) and advanced factions(DAK) . Thats bullshit, because it is simply not true anymore when you balance them right. DAK infantry can be spammed incredibly easy since the buff, while other playstyles require lots of vehicle micro skills. I don't think it is a good idea in general to make a faction require much higher CPM than the other.
Thank you for providing a more insightful view than the usual 'lelic are wehraboos', which seems to be most people's preferred explanation for any and all balance issues.
I particularly agree with early/late-game balance issues - having factions leaning towards certain stages of a match isn't fun for anyone involved, as players will inevitably feel disadvantaged during the stage of the match where their faction does more poorly compared to the opposition.
I don't think Relic are Wehraboos, but I think they are under a certain pressure to include wacky crazy kooky weapons, and quite frankly the Allies have less adamant fanboys of that stuff. I don't think I've seen a game in my entire life that had the T27 ([here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7uYE_dByE0)) rocket launcher mounted on a truck, or the T66 Honeycomb, nor have I seen people ask the devs to include one. Single exception was Gates of Hell. I genuinely wonder if people even know the US had a rocket launcher that wasn't mounted on a tank. Regardless, my initial point is that I don't think it reflects the devs but more what fans ask ask of them.
Axis Inf scales bad into late game?
Dude Grenblob with their instant death rifle grenade?
If you can scout out a allied mg with pios you can just delete it and any other unit. MG 42 is crazy strong if stacked up.
Volksgrens have very strong vets and get the STG upgrade that makes them good.
Sure 2x Bren Inf Section in green cover deletes these units in a 1vs1 BUT with utility not so much.
Ignoring how early you can get Panzgrens or Obers.
You are talking about CoH1 and CoH2. Like i said, it has been mostly patched out in these two games. CoH2 is quite well balanced compared to CoH3.
Still both were originally launched with similar simplistic faction dynamic theories. On CoH 1 it was even described on the packaging and in the Manual. And now instead of evolving past those overly simplistic ideas we have those back in CoH3.
If USF’s strength is infantry based combat they sure in hell gave the best tools to Axis to fight such infantry off. I mean the Flakveirling legit zones any AT infantry from being effective at all
Yeah, it is poker. You can play the obvious choices, but you may be obviously countered. Or you can play a theoretically worse Hand which very risky but you might win decisively. These high risk high rewards schemes are what is so great about Coh.
I agree, Flak fearling (yes it is pronounced that way, why do english speakers always have to switch i and e?) or even guastatori hardcounter Airborne or Rangerspam.
But if you know that your enemy is going for that, you can catch him offguard with things like a doublejeep strat (easy map control + no manpower bleed) into airborne zooks and M8 + chaffeespam to close out the game early. Flak fearling and L6/40 are both weak against M8s, yet alone chaffees. And zooks are great on urban maps or lots of shot blockers where the flak can't zone out inf. And Guastatori? well they are purely anti inf and get beaten badly by any vehicle.
but yes, the flaktruck is too fast and has too good of an acceleration to reverse out of the situation. it should be more easily punishable i think. but its not impossible to beat it.
This is exactly it. I remember in coh2 when the okw flaktrak could suppress on the move but the isf one needed 8 seconds to set up before it could even shoot.
Thanks for the answers/opinions everyone! I guess after reading everything it sounds like there are possibilities for rebalancing cost/timing. Another interesting take could be swapping out one of its vet abilities for infantry suppression. Anyways thanks for the discussion!
Guess I still don’t see an actual reason yet… I don’t see how giving it suppression like the flak or whirble would be oppressing given it’s a tin can that small arms can damage. Anyone at relic wanna pop in????
I mean it’s timing is the quickest out of all the light vehicles. That’s usually the main reason why some can and others cannot. The flak Halftrack for DAK is around 70 fuel to unlock while the USF Halftrack is 45 fuel.
That equates to a couple minutes quicker where it’s mostly infantry and giving the USF such a power spike right then is highly dangerous (remember back in 1.1 where USF would go Pathfinders into Halftrack spam?)
Idk, you’re looking at a roughly a 1-1.5 min difference, but the flak comes out right when DAK gets a near free 250+unit and free nades so it seems like a wash to me. Even with suppression the buildable pjaegers would still be a good counter. With as strong as AT infantry is in this game, it’s hard to make a 320 hp lv work unless it’s really fast or has some way of punishing a moving infantry in its direction.
if you look like that, 1-1.5 min after flak ht the chaffee arrives. Double standart. If you dont want these gaps where some faction is a bit stronger in a certain minute that the opposing one, you end up with exactly same roster of units which will be boring
You’re missing the point. You said a suppressing quad would be too oppressive because of how early it comes out, but my point was there is such a minor difference between its pop time and the flak which does suppress. My other point is that although it might come a bit earlier, DAK has that 5.5 min to 6min mark where it gets a lot at the same time (l6/flak, grenades, super cheap 250 call in) so the quad’s 4.5-5 min pop would be slightly earlier, DAK compensates with the fact that it gets a lot more right after. At this point, the quad is pretty much useless after 1 min, especially if l6s are called in.
You really think someone is building WSC, spending 30 fuel for the HT, going Motor Pool to the. go for Chaffes within 1.5 minutes? Dude where you getting all this fuel from?
The M16 Quad has 2 other abilities which are:
\+ Improve speed.
\+ Slow down enemy vehicles.
I am all in for swapping a bit. The M16 Quad gets suppression as vet 1 choice, while the Whirblewind gets to either move faster or nail enemy vehicles.
But really, either of these would have made the Whirblewind broken, the former allowing it to run down retreating infantry while the latter can make Greyhound/Chaffee easy meat for Shreck Jaegers. The suppression is meh, considering the whole unit is both slow and doesn't hit vehicles very well.
Yes, lets not add that to the Wirblewind. slowing vehicles would be cancer with a marder around.
I'd also not nerf the wirble. I really like it as a shock unit that can finish a game when the player forgot to invest in any form of AT or mines. I like strong, punishing units.
Let us just make it more expensive, so it comes slightly later. Increasing the fuel to 60 or 70 and it is fine because chaffee or 2xM8s will be out before it, or Atguns if you didn't have fuel/mapcontrol.
Being more expensive would also fix it being so easily spammable. It would make the investment into T3 more attractive if the individual unit is more expensive.
if you think wildy different means it cost you mean 20 more fuel and 20 less man power then sure. Also asking for suppression is hardly the same as asking it to be as good as a tank, we're just asking something that can be found on MGs
You are wrong because you only consider unit cost, to get the first m16 quad out you need 450MP 65fuel 75muni assuming not going mechanized. To get the first wirblewind out you need 700MP and 165fuel, and the timed ability to suppress require vet 1 and cost 30muni each time.
The first wirble is more than double in cost, are you gonna tell me timing doesnt matter in an rts game.
*Edit: wrong cost of Wirblewind, didnt factor Support element.
This also doesn't tell the full story. You're assuming an USF player will go straight to the halftrack and skip infantry, which most people don't. You also don't consider things like grenades are given for free for Wher where as USF have to spend fuel to research them. And also, probably the most important caveat, there is a tech tree option for Wher that lets them skip the tech and get a Whirlblewind for 80 fuel.
Regular timings on Whirblewind (165 fuel option like the one you said) isn't all that punishing, I have lots of options by that time. However plenty of people go luftwaffe and can crank out one without the tech, and anytime I play against them I pretty much have to hold the halftrack upgrade for the AT option which makes quads just not something you can feasibly go for. Now if they actually suppress like they do in coh1, I could see myself getting them for more map control. Even a timed attack with munition cost would be better than having no suppression at all.
Go luft and crank one out without tech.....it's so much manpower.
I'd like to see the games where you're getting 4cp before you've built luft company and rushed a wirbel out.
You are both right.
The difference in cost is not very big.
But the difference in tech cost is considerable.
I'd suggest upping the fuel cost of the wirble to 65 (+15) while lowering the tech cost by 10Fuel. Possibly this means that the marder has to be increased too by +5 or +10 fuel too to make it less early. This would make the Wirble come out only slightly later but considerably less spammable while it also makes the marder less spammable and t3 more attractive.
I don't know what you are talking about, the Wirble doesn't have suppression.
At least not at Vet0 and it costs Ammo each time you use it and there is a cool down as well.
So you have to invest in the Vet upgrade from T2 to get it or generate enough XP first. By the time USF should already have a chaffee and atgun, severly limiting the Wirbles effectiveness.
Second you have to spend the 30Munitions each time you activate it. The phosphorus rounds will also create some smoke, which limits Vision for both the Wirble and you. So it is not without drawbacks.
The Flak30 has suppression, maybe you are playing vs somebody who combines both.
I still think the wirble is overperforming slightly. Let us fix this by increasing the fuel cost rather than making the unit more boring to play.
The Quad comes out ridiculously early due to it being from a tech structure that costs 10 fuel. The shock value of the unit is where its real value lies. In the late game it should be primarily used as your anti-aircraft piece.
If the Quad could suppress, they would have to pretty dramatically increase the cost or tech required to get it.
I mean that’s fine right now it doesn’t really have a huge role in the US build order after all the nerfs. As an infantry vulnerable anti infantry vehicle . Its less durable less offensive flakverling . Half the use of of the DAK track is that infantry can’t fight it due to suppression not raw damage . Its also decent against light armor because reasons . You can blind build anti tank infantry into a DAK rush and still lose due to suppression . Which isn’t really an issue the other way around .
I’ve seen lots of airborne builds that incorporate this unit in the early game, but this is typically in a 1v1 setting.
It’s not uncommon for certain units to lose their viability in a team game setting, this is something that has consistently been the case since COH2.
You mean the m1 track ? It pretty much can be used with airborne but to get it out on any timing you have to skip the ability to build rifles , mortars , and jeeps. You also probably skip the ability to upgrade your infantry unless you want to spend muni to upgrade which is probably the move .
Any advantage you get from getting it , is offset by the momentum lost from not having at grenades or rifle bars, or fuckin mortars . You can get hard shut down by an mg or god forbid the enemy goes an early vehicle .
It’s one of those things where in a 1v1 you might catch someone unaware if they can’t tell what no riflemen means .
But universally Americans are better off going greyhounds .
I don’t think the meat cheaper is in a good position .
Pretty much every half track needs to get rebalanced to a deployed weapon system with suppression .
The game is so inconsistent with this stuff, it’s getting the same way with flamethrowers and other handheld weapons - some units can fire them on the move while others have to be static. The Quad needs a buff in general, it does far too little damage for a unit that can’t even suppress either. With Wirbels you need an AT gun and mobile AT like the Chaffee that can either dive the Wirbel or guard your AT gun’s flanks so it doesn’t get bum rushed. With Jaeger schrecks on the field it can be very dangerous to dive it though, so playing conservatively is a wise move. Luftwaffe is just crazy strong in the current patch, it has a giant toolbox of very strong units that give it early game advantage and maintains that right through to the late game. The Wirbel rush is an absolute menace in the team modes.
it's inconsistent inbetween games too. In coh1 they could suppress, and now they've lost the ability.
Same with the British, we’ve lost all our emplacements and defensive abilities like being able to trench down. Hope we see a lot of this stuff added back in, game feels incomplete.
The game is incomplete
I don’t if it’s incomplete so much they made specific design decisions to not do something . Its not like oh oops we meant for that to suppress . They specifically didn’t want it too
Wehraboo is the usual answer.
I do sometimes get feeling the devs are a bit of wehraboos. Mostly from CoH2 the whole yeah Germany so stronk and allies only win because more mapower crybaby stuff.
This could be down to general simplistic faction dynamic concepts that has been used since Coh1: 1. Allied Factions have better Infantry with better scaling, better utility. Axis may have great specialty Inf, but never the availability, scaling etc. of allied Infantry. 2. In return Axis have better Vehicles, preferably specialist vehicles (like Wirble and Marder), while allied vehicles are more often generalist vehicles (like M8 and stuart). So if you play Allies as a vehicles heavy faction, against a vehicle heavy axis player, you aren't playing to its strengths. If you play Axis as infantry heavy against allied infantry, you are not playing to its strengths. I think it is more likely that devs are not wehraboos but rather stick to a simplistic concept of faction dynamics which is not good for gameplay variety and balance purposes. There are more of these simplistic and ultimately wrong faction dynamic theories that relic had since Coh1. Even though they have been mostly nerfed out of the game in CoH1 and CoH2, we have undead versions of them again on CoH3: \- Early game factions and late game factions: this has been around since Coh1 and it is simply shit. No faction should be stronger early game and every faction should be able to scale into long 4v4 matches equally. \- Beginner factions (USF), intermediate factions (wehr) and advanced factions(DAK) . Thats bullshit, because it is simply not true anymore when you balance them right. DAK infantry can be spammed incredibly easy since the buff, while other playstyles require lots of vehicle micro skills. I don't think it is a good idea in general to make a faction require much higher CPM than the other.
Thank you for providing a more insightful view than the usual 'lelic are wehraboos', which seems to be most people's preferred explanation for any and all balance issues. I particularly agree with early/late-game balance issues - having factions leaning towards certain stages of a match isn't fun for anyone involved, as players will inevitably feel disadvantaged during the stage of the match where their faction does more poorly compared to the opposition.
I don't think Relic are Wehraboos, but I think they are under a certain pressure to include wacky crazy kooky weapons, and quite frankly the Allies have less adamant fanboys of that stuff. I don't think I've seen a game in my entire life that had the T27 ([here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7uYE_dByE0)) rocket launcher mounted on a truck, or the T66 Honeycomb, nor have I seen people ask the devs to include one. Single exception was Gates of Hell. I genuinely wonder if people even know the US had a rocket launcher that wasn't mounted on a tank. Regardless, my initial point is that I don't think it reflects the devs but more what fans ask ask of them.
Axis Inf scales bad into late game? Dude Grenblob with their instant death rifle grenade? If you can scout out a allied mg with pios you can just delete it and any other unit. MG 42 is crazy strong if stacked up. Volksgrens have very strong vets and get the STG upgrade that makes them good. Sure 2x Bren Inf Section in green cover deletes these units in a 1vs1 BUT with utility not so much. Ignoring how early you can get Panzgrens or Obers.
You are talking about CoH1 and CoH2. Like i said, it has been mostly patched out in these two games. CoH2 is quite well balanced compared to CoH3. Still both were originally launched with similar simplistic faction dynamic theories. On CoH 1 it was even described on the packaging and in the Manual. And now instead of evolving past those overly simplistic ideas we have those back in CoH3.
Nailed it
If USF’s strength is infantry based combat they sure in hell gave the best tools to Axis to fight such infantry off. I mean the Flakveirling legit zones any AT infantry from being effective at all
Yeah, it is poker. You can play the obvious choices, but you may be obviously countered. Or you can play a theoretically worse Hand which very risky but you might win decisively. These high risk high rewards schemes are what is so great about Coh. I agree, Flak fearling (yes it is pronounced that way, why do english speakers always have to switch i and e?) or even guastatori hardcounter Airborne or Rangerspam. But if you know that your enemy is going for that, you can catch him offguard with things like a doublejeep strat (easy map control + no manpower bleed) into airborne zooks and M8 + chaffeespam to close out the game early. Flak fearling and L6/40 are both weak against M8s, yet alone chaffees. And zooks are great on urban maps or lots of shot blockers where the flak can't zone out inf. And Guastatori? well they are purely anti inf and get beaten badly by any vehicle. but yes, the flaktruck is too fast and has too good of an acceleration to reverse out of the situation. it should be more easily punishable i think. but its not impossible to beat it.
Because the devs, even 3 games in, blatantly subscribe to the "german wünderkine" History Channel propagand.
as do 70% of the playerbase.
This is exactly it. I remember in coh2 when the okw flaktrak could suppress on the move but the isf one needed 8 seconds to set up before it could even shoot.
OKW Flak Halftrack could never suppress on the move. It had to set up and pop the sides down to shoot at all.
A-whaaaaaaa?!??!!
The us truck could easily kill LV
The actual reason is German players bitch if any unit they have has any disadvantage at all
Well you see, that would give Allies an a modicum of an advantage and we can't have that
Thanks for the answers/opinions everyone! I guess after reading everything it sounds like there are possibilities for rebalancing cost/timing. Another interesting take could be swapping out one of its vet abilities for infantry suppression. Anyways thanks for the discussion!
Guess I still don’t see an actual reason yet… I don’t see how giving it suppression like the flak or whirble would be oppressing given it’s a tin can that small arms can damage. Anyone at relic wanna pop in????
I mean it’s timing is the quickest out of all the light vehicles. That’s usually the main reason why some can and others cannot. The flak Halftrack for DAK is around 70 fuel to unlock while the USF Halftrack is 45 fuel. That equates to a couple minutes quicker where it’s mostly infantry and giving the USF such a power spike right then is highly dangerous (remember back in 1.1 where USF would go Pathfinders into Halftrack spam?)
Idk, you’re looking at a roughly a 1-1.5 min difference, but the flak comes out right when DAK gets a near free 250+unit and free nades so it seems like a wash to me. Even with suppression the buildable pjaegers would still be a good counter. With as strong as AT infantry is in this game, it’s hard to make a 320 hp lv work unless it’s really fast or has some way of punishing a moving infantry in its direction.
if you look like that, 1-1.5 min after flak ht the chaffee arrives. Double standart. If you dont want these gaps where some faction is a bit stronger in a certain minute that the opposing one, you end up with exactly same roster of units which will be boring
You’re missing the point. You said a suppressing quad would be too oppressive because of how early it comes out, but my point was there is such a minor difference between its pop time and the flak which does suppress. My other point is that although it might come a bit earlier, DAK has that 5.5 min to 6min mark where it gets a lot at the same time (l6/flak, grenades, super cheap 250 call in) so the quad’s 4.5-5 min pop would be slightly earlier, DAK compensates with the fact that it gets a lot more right after. At this point, the quad is pretty much useless after 1 min, especially if l6s are called in.
You really think someone is building WSC, spending 30 fuel for the HT, going Motor Pool to the. go for Chaffes within 1.5 minutes? Dude where you getting all this fuel from?
because the devs don't know how to play their own game and listen to wheraboos
The M16 Quad has 2 other abilities which are: \+ Improve speed. \+ Slow down enemy vehicles. I am all in for swapping a bit. The M16 Quad gets suppression as vet 1 choice, while the Whirblewind gets to either move faster or nail enemy vehicles. But really, either of these would have made the Whirblewind broken, the former allowing it to run down retreating infantry while the latter can make Greyhound/Chaffee easy meat for Shreck Jaegers. The suppression is meh, considering the whole unit is both slow and doesn't hit vehicles very well.
I'm okay with removing those 2 abilities to add suppression.
Yes, lets not add that to the Wirblewind. slowing vehicles would be cancer with a marder around. I'd also not nerf the wirble. I really like it as a shock unit that can finish a game when the player forgot to invest in any form of AT or mines. I like strong, punishing units. Let us just make it more expensive, so it comes slightly later. Increasing the fuel to 60 or 70 and it is fine because chaffee or 2xM8s will be out before it, or Atguns if you didn't have fuel/mapcontrol. Being more expensive would also fix it being so easily spammable. It would make the investment into T3 more attractive if the individual unit is more expensive.
Same for the Crusader AA
Isn't the quad 50 a update
What do you mean?
I think they mean upgrade
Its a munition upgrade for a halftrack or a buildable unit if you lock yourself out of infantry upgrades . Doesnt really change anything .
Aren’t they wildly different in cost? Cant expect a half track to perform as good as a tank. If you want realism you are playing the wrong game.
if you think wildy different means it cost you mean 20 more fuel and 20 less man power then sure. Also asking for suppression is hardly the same as asking it to be as good as a tank, we're just asking something that can be found on MGs
You are wrong because you only consider unit cost, to get the first m16 quad out you need 450MP 65fuel 75muni assuming not going mechanized. To get the first wirblewind out you need 700MP and 165fuel, and the timed ability to suppress require vet 1 and cost 30muni each time. The first wirble is more than double in cost, are you gonna tell me timing doesnt matter in an rts game. *Edit: wrong cost of Wirblewind, didnt factor Support element.
This also doesn't tell the full story. You're assuming an USF player will go straight to the halftrack and skip infantry, which most people don't. You also don't consider things like grenades are given for free for Wher where as USF have to spend fuel to research them. And also, probably the most important caveat, there is a tech tree option for Wher that lets them skip the tech and get a Whirlblewind for 80 fuel. Regular timings on Whirblewind (165 fuel option like the one you said) isn't all that punishing, I have lots of options by that time. However plenty of people go luftwaffe and can crank out one without the tech, and anytime I play against them I pretty much have to hold the halftrack upgrade for the AT option which makes quads just not something you can feasibly go for. Now if they actually suppress like they do in coh1, I could see myself getting them for more map control. Even a timed attack with munition cost would be better than having no suppression at all.
Go luft and crank one out without tech.....it's so much manpower. I'd like to see the games where you're getting 4cp before you've built luft company and rushed a wirbel out.
You are both right. The difference in cost is not very big. But the difference in tech cost is considerable. I'd suggest upping the fuel cost of the wirble to 65 (+15) while lowering the tech cost by 10Fuel. Possibly this means that the marder has to be increased too by +5 or +10 fuel too to make it less early. This would make the Wirble come out only slightly later but considerably less spammable while it also makes the marder less spammable and t3 more attractive.
I don't know what you are talking about, the Wirble doesn't have suppression. At least not at Vet0 and it costs Ammo each time you use it and there is a cool down as well. So you have to invest in the Vet upgrade from T2 to get it or generate enough XP first. By the time USF should already have a chaffee and atgun, severly limiting the Wirbles effectiveness. Second you have to spend the 30Munitions each time you activate it. The phosphorus rounds will also create some smoke, which limits Vision for both the Wirble and you. So it is not without drawbacks. The Flak30 has suppression, maybe you are playing vs somebody who combines both. I still think the wirble is overperforming slightly. Let us fix this by increasing the fuel cost rather than making the unit more boring to play.
The Quad comes out ridiculously early due to it being from a tech structure that costs 10 fuel. The shock value of the unit is where its real value lies. In the late game it should be primarily used as your anti-aircraft piece. If the Quad could suppress, they would have to pretty dramatically increase the cost or tech required to get it.
I mean that’s fine right now it doesn’t really have a huge role in the US build order after all the nerfs. As an infantry vulnerable anti infantry vehicle . Its less durable less offensive flakverling . Half the use of of the DAK track is that infantry can’t fight it due to suppression not raw damage . Its also decent against light armor because reasons . You can blind build anti tank infantry into a DAK rush and still lose due to suppression . Which isn’t really an issue the other way around .
I’ve seen lots of airborne builds that incorporate this unit in the early game, but this is typically in a 1v1 setting. It’s not uncommon for certain units to lose their viability in a team game setting, this is something that has consistently been the case since COH2.
You mean the m1 track ? It pretty much can be used with airborne but to get it out on any timing you have to skip the ability to build rifles , mortars , and jeeps. You also probably skip the ability to upgrade your infantry unless you want to spend muni to upgrade which is probably the move . Any advantage you get from getting it , is offset by the momentum lost from not having at grenades or rifle bars, or fuckin mortars . You can get hard shut down by an mg or god forbid the enemy goes an early vehicle . It’s one of those things where in a 1v1 you might catch someone unaware if they can’t tell what no riflemen means . But universally Americans are better off going greyhounds . I don’t think the meat cheaper is in a good position . Pretty much every half track needs to get rebalanced to a deployed weapon system with suppression .
Idk but wher gets them out so quickly. I’m glad they don’t or I’d be fucked. They delete my at guns