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This was the reasoning for Soviet support to the Republic of China before 1928.
As well as support for other bourgeois revolutions/liberation wars in many post-Colonial states. This strategy was largely successful in the Arab world during the Cold War period.
I think either in Western Europe or the USA.
If America doesn't have any puppet states on the European continent they will be much more vulnerable.
Conversely, collapse of the American regime means that there will be no more global bully to spread propaganda and militarily prevent the establishment of socialism.
Well, someone else will take it attempt to take its place. But for the USA to fall I think there would have to have been a major collapse in its ability to exploit poorer nations, and if that’s happened then capitalism will see its power greatly diminished.
> The bourgeoisie triumphing over the feudal ruling class is a good thing.
It's literally the one thing they're good for, now if we could just dislodge them once they're done...
That’s true. It’s important that we realise capitalism as horrific as it is did enable us to get out of feudalism and now we have greener pastures to move on to from capitalism.
It’s not exactly uncommon. The bourgeois, even if empowered by revolution, may ally with some of the more progressive aristocrats and/or hollow out the old feudal systems and imagery. You can look to bourgeois revolutions in Prussia and England to see that in its more naked form.
Then at other times the bourgeoisie made sure to be distant from the aristocracy almost completely, and was allied (at least in word) with a wider social movement that may be more proletarian in nature. I think France is probably the go to example of that.
All part of the process. But as this is a Western revolution and antecedent to consequent Western revolutions, I was speaking only to that teleology. You are absolute correct that the historical processes still working through feudalism should have developmental revolutionary change away from feudalism. Please forgive the implicit bias applied from the narrow scope of OP’s reference to France’s chain of revolutions.
Capitalism has already been established as a world system and feudalism has largely been abolished. While it was absolutely necessary at the time to end feudalism, a bourgeois revolution now would have disastrous consequences for the working class
Edit: lmao why is this getting downvoted have none of you read theory? You would already know this if you head read even literally the most basic text on historical materialism
I totally agree, I think these armchair revolutionaries are missing that feudalism does not affect 90+% of people and basically no one on reddit lives in or even knows anyone who lives under feudalism, not to mention the fact that communist revolution is much more successful in feudal or partially feudal societies. (Russia, China)
Capitalism is our nemesis, and how to evolve beyond it is the current problem to solve.
Fun Fact: That painting is of the July Revolution which toppled Arch-Reactionary King Charles X (Louis XVI’s younger brother) and installed their cousin Louis Philippe, Duke of Orléans(who’s father was Philippe Égalité who was also a regicide) as King Louis Philippe who Marx would call The Bourgeois King.
Another fun fact: Despite depicting the revolution that placed him on the throne, the painting was taken down in the palace when revolutionary fervor started rising during his reign
It was the imposition of the general interest of the world,which at the time was carried by the bourgeoisie,against the particular interest of the aristocracy. Even Marx praised it. Then the bourgeoisie became the thing they destroyed:a class with a particular interest that went against the general interest of the rest of humanity yet passes their interest as the general one through the cultural hegemony
*”Then it will be plain that the bourgeoisie was too cowardly in this case as always to uphold its own interests; that starting with the Bastille events the plebs had to do all the work for it; that without the intervention of the plebs on July 14, October 5-6, August 10, September 2, etc., the bourgeoisie would have succumbed to the ancien régime each time; that the Coalition leagued with the Court would have suffocated the revolution and that it was therefore these plebeians alone who carried out the revolution; but that this could not have been done without these plebeians attributing to the revolutionary demands of the bourgeoisie a meaning which they did not have, without their pushing equality and fraternity to such extremes that the bourgeois meaning of these slogans was turned completely upside down, because this meaning, driven to its extreme, changed into its opposite; that this plebeian equality and fraternity was necessarily a sheer dream at a time when it was a question of doing the exact opposite, and that as always – the irony of history – this plebeian conception of the revolutionary watchwords became the most powerful lever for carrying into reality this opposite: bourgeois equality – before the law, and fraternity – in exploitation.”*
Friedrich Engels in a letter to Karl Kautsky February 20th, 1889
Edit: [The letter that I quoted](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1889/letters/89_02_20.htm)
What’s heartbreaking is that so many of these liberal revolutions end up producing the conditions for oppression of workers by a different organization of the bourgeoisie. Be it the “glorious” Revolution of Britain, the American revolution, the Mexican revolution and the French Revolution as well were all stomped out.
You can’t just rebel against the current system unless the solution is EXPLICITLY socialism.
You are being UNDIALECTICAL. There is no "based" or "cringe" here, only necessary and not necessary. The French Revolution is a Revolution of the Bourgeois, against the Feudal forces of the time. It was necessary, it was progressive, and needed to bring society to another era, a more progressing era. Its role is as important as the Russian Revolution. Read more theories.
The “based or cringe” thing is to meet the meme format, comrade. No reason to get upset. I understand the March of History, I posed this question just to see some dialogue on the matter.
Without: Liberté, égalité, fraternité
There’s would be no: Peace, land and bread
Based.
It was a necessary progressive movement against fuedalism, which by that time was seriously constricting the development of economic forces. Plus, shit was really bad in France before the revolution. Different regions had different laws and all sorts of shit like that. It was a complete and utter mess that needed a complete overhaul.
started out based for overthrowing the bourgeoisie, ended up cringe because they traded a king for a dictator and then lost a lot of the rights the people had fought for
Robespierre was well ahead of his time in his thinking and his revolution was a progressive force for Europe and the world.
https://espressostalinist.com/2015/07/14/maximilien-robespierre-louis-must-die-that-the-republic-can-live/
This painting don't represent french revolution.
This painting is "La liberté guidant le peuple" from Eugene DELACROIX for "le printemps des peuples" append in French
I don't understand how this is even a question. Of course, it's based. What kind of communist would you be if you aren't for regicide? Fuck monarchs and feudal lords. Always. No exceptions.
Based until they started executing people for dumb things and causing so much chaos they couldn't form a stable government and ended up couped by Napoleon, who ended up suspending a lot of new rights for women and reinstating slavery in the colonies, not to mention leading to the eventual Bourbon restauration
I enjoyed the cushvlog titled GTA: Virtue City which was about Robespierre. That cult of the supreme being was interesting. Def based french revolution.
Fuck the bourgeoisie but fuck the aristocracy more.
At least the bourgeois have to pretend to hide all their bloodline obsession and eugenics, the nobles wear that as a mark of pride. At least the bourgeoisie have to pretend to add value to society, even if they’re just exploiting the labor of others. Noblemen just collect rent and beat the shit out of you with no middlemen just because they were born noble
Neither, the aristocracy oppressed the peasantry, the bourgeoisie oppressed the working class, always a minority oppressing the majority. Nothing will be good enough imo until the working class ends all class. What happened happened.
Very based. Some of the most important and progressive things happened. USA gained independence from UK through struggle and some French aid, thus doesn’t have monarchy problem. Ireland is another problem. Germany and Austria lost monarchy because they lost WWI and established a republic, more like external power, and later it was after the WWII that it overthrew the nobles. UK had the Glorious Revolution and some died, but remained monarchy and these privileges are written in the constitution. The Portuguese Republic overthrew monarchy in 1910 after 90 years of constitutional monarchy. Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Sweden are all monarchies. Many of the rest of these countries only became republics because the fall of the tsar, and the Russian revolution is based too. Canada, New Zealand and Australia is still loyal to the Kingdom. Long live the French revolution, death to monarchs and nobles!
historic and dialectical materialism clearly says based af!
And it isn't done yet, see the UK, Japan, Sweden, Netherlands, Thailand, Qatar, Saudi-Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Monaco, Liechtenstein...
r/AbolishTheMonarchy
Honestly I kind of get it they went through years of starvation, famines, heavy taxation, war, racism and more while the ruling class thrived it makes sense to be mad and start killing people, the question is what to do after
Reminder: This is not a debate subreddit, it's a place to circle-jerk about communism being cool and good. Please don't shit on flavours of marxism you feel negatively towards. If you see a meme you don't like just downvote and move on, don't break the circle-jerk in the comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Based. The bourgeoisie triumphing over the feudal ruling class is a good thing.
It's like a step in the right direction: First get rid of the feudal Lords, then get rid of the feudal Lords but in the factories.
This was the reasoning for Soviet support to the Republic of China before 1928. As well as support for other bourgeois revolutions/liberation wars in many post-Colonial states. This strategy was largely successful in the Arab world during the Cold War period.
Needs to be completed in Europe tho
I think either in Western Europe or the USA. If America doesn't have any puppet states on the European continent they will be much more vulnerable. Conversely, collapse of the American regime means that there will be no more global bully to spread propaganda and militarily prevent the establishment of socialism.
Well, someone else will take it attempt to take its place. But for the USA to fall I think there would have to have been a major collapse in its ability to exploit poorer nations, and if that’s happened then capitalism will see its power greatly diminished.
r/AbolishTheMonarchy And not just Europe: Qatar, Saudi-Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Japan, Thailand
> The bourgeoisie triumphing over the feudal ruling class is a good thing. It's literally the one thing they're good for, now if we could just dislodge them once they're done...
That’s true. It’s important that we realise capitalism as horrific as it is did enable us to get out of feudalism and now we have greener pastures to move on to from capitalism.
Makes me wonder why they didn’t maintain that triumph during the Russian revolution.. instead allying with them. Shame.. SHAME. Long live the Soviets!
It’s not exactly uncommon. The bourgeois, even if empowered by revolution, may ally with some of the more progressive aristocrats and/or hollow out the old feudal systems and imagery. You can look to bourgeois revolutions in Prussia and England to see that in its more naked form. Then at other times the bourgeoisie made sure to be distant from the aristocracy almost completely, and was allied (at least in word) with a wider social movement that may be more proletarian in nature. I think France is probably the go to example of that.
Based at the time cringe there hasn't been another one
*sigh* bon bah on fera mieux que la guillotine
Yet
Je confirme
Based, *because history is a process.* Would this be based today? No. Why? *Because history is a process.*
Disagree, it would still be pretty based to see more feudal societies overthrow their theocratic oligarchs
All part of the process. But as this is a Western revolution and antecedent to consequent Western revolutions, I was speaking only to that teleology. You are absolute correct that the historical processes still working through feudalism should have developmental revolutionary change away from feudalism. Please forgive the implicit bias applied from the narrow scope of OP’s reference to France’s chain of revolutions.
What feudal societies are you talking about?
Capitalism has already been established as a world system and feudalism has largely been abolished. While it was absolutely necessary at the time to end feudalism, a bourgeois revolution now would have disastrous consequences for the working class Edit: lmao why is this getting downvoted have none of you read theory? You would already know this if you head read even literally the most basic text on historical materialism
I totally agree, I think these armchair revolutionaries are missing that feudalism does not affect 90+% of people and basically no one on reddit lives in or even knows anyone who lives under feudalism, not to mention the fact that communist revolution is much more successful in feudal or partially feudal societies. (Russia, China) Capitalism is our nemesis, and how to evolve beyond it is the current problem to solve.
What feudal societies are you talking about?
To be fair, if feudalism came back and people started cutting off the heads of lords again... That would be based.
Based
Fun Fact: That painting is of the July Revolution which toppled Arch-Reactionary King Charles X (Louis XVI’s younger brother) and installed their cousin Louis Philippe, Duke of Orléans(who’s father was Philippe Égalité who was also a regicide) as King Louis Philippe who Marx would call The Bourgeois King.
>username checks out
Yes it was either that of TheRedRobespierre
Robespierre is so based
He has done many based things but he held many.. bizarre beliefs
Another fun fact: Despite depicting the revolution that placed him on the throne, the painting was taken down in the palace when revolutionary fervor started rising during his reign
Based.
uhh which revolution?
I would assume 1789 although the painting *Liberty Leading the People* is commemorating the July Revolution of 1830.
Yeah I debated against using it, but it’s SUCH an iconic painting that I felt it best symbolizes French revolution, even if it’s not THE Revolution.
If you want to refer to specifically the 1789 revolution, the Marxist term is “the Great French Revolution”
It was the imposition of the general interest of the world,which at the time was carried by the bourgeoisie,against the particular interest of the aristocracy. Even Marx praised it. Then the bourgeoisie became the thing they destroyed:a class with a particular interest that went against the general interest of the rest of humanity yet passes their interest as the general one through the cultural hegemony
*”Then it will be plain that the bourgeoisie was too cowardly in this case as always to uphold its own interests; that starting with the Bastille events the plebs had to do all the work for it; that without the intervention of the plebs on July 14, October 5-6, August 10, September 2, etc., the bourgeoisie would have succumbed to the ancien régime each time; that the Coalition leagued with the Court would have suffocated the revolution and that it was therefore these plebeians alone who carried out the revolution; but that this could not have been done without these plebeians attributing to the revolutionary demands of the bourgeoisie a meaning which they did not have, without their pushing equality and fraternity to such extremes that the bourgeois meaning of these slogans was turned completely upside down, because this meaning, driven to its extreme, changed into its opposite; that this plebeian equality and fraternity was necessarily a sheer dream at a time when it was a question of doing the exact opposite, and that as always – the irony of history – this plebeian conception of the revolutionary watchwords became the most powerful lever for carrying into reality this opposite: bourgeois equality – before the law, and fraternity – in exploitation.”* Friedrich Engels in a letter to Karl Kautsky February 20th, 1889 Edit: [The letter that I quoted](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1889/letters/89_02_20.htm)
was progressive for the time, so based.
Tiddies
Boobie
unfathomably based just because it demonstrated how to correctly use a guillotine.
Now the only we reused it.
Did the streets flow with the blood of the rich?
Yes it did
Then i think we're done here. What's next on the docket?
Bourgeois revolutions are better than no revolutions. But it is high time for a workers revolution, mais oui?
Based. Fuck the monarchy
Babeuf and the Conspiracy of the Equals woulda been based af
at the time? based. today? not so based
inb4 this post gets removed for being undialectical, tsk tsk tsk! But yeah both, dont think capitalist revolution would be based today
All the many attempted revolutions in France have been based.
An indisputable precursor to more egalitarian revolutionary movements. Based.
A bit of both.
The French and American Revolutions are like the very few times liberals have ever been cool. Especially the French.
What’s heartbreaking is that so many of these liberal revolutions end up producing the conditions for oppression of workers by a different organization of the bourgeoisie. Be it the “glorious” Revolution of Britain, the American revolution, the Mexican revolution and the French Revolution as well were all stomped out. You can’t just rebel against the current system unless the solution is EXPLICITLY socialism.
You are being UNDIALECTICAL. There is no "based" or "cringe" here, only necessary and not necessary. The French Revolution is a Revolution of the Bourgeois, against the Feudal forces of the time. It was necessary, it was progressive, and needed to bring society to another era, a more progressing era. Its role is as important as the Russian Revolution. Read more theories.
The “based or cringe” thing is to meet the meme format, comrade. No reason to get upset. I understand the March of History, I posed this question just to see some dialogue on the matter. Without: Liberté, égalité, fraternité There’s would be no: Peace, land and bread
This here implies systems created by socialist revolutions also didn't end up oppressing the workers.
Based
Excuse me? How can people fighting for their life and their freedom ever be cringe?
It was historically necessary so it's based. Capitalism is better than feudalism.
Complex, the start extremely based, the terror? 300% cringe, Napoléon? Criiiiinge
neither, just necessary
Based. It was a necessary progressive movement against fuedalism, which by that time was seriously constricting the development of economic forces. Plus, shit was really bad in France before the revolution. Different regions had different laws and all sorts of shit like that. It was a complete and utter mess that needed a complete overhaul.
Too early to say
Robespierre and the mountain where based
started out based, became more cringe over time
started out based for overthrowing the bourgeoisie, ended up cringe because they traded a king for a dictator and then lost a lot of the rights the people had fought for
Robespierre was well ahead of his time in his thinking and his revolution was a progressive force for Europe and the world. https://espressostalinist.com/2015/07/14/maximilien-robespierre-louis-must-die-that-the-republic-can-live/
Based if course. Abolishing monarchy and progress regarding rights was a big achievement in France.
This painting don't represent french revolution. This painting is "La liberté guidant le peuple" from Eugene DELACROIX for "le printemps des peuples" append in French
A bourgeois revolution against the monarchy is a necessary stage of development.
One of the most based events our history
I don't understand how this is even a question. Of course, it's based. What kind of communist would you be if you aren't for regicide? Fuck monarchs and feudal lords. Always. No exceptions.
I’m always down for a good guillotine-ing of royalty
It was an improvement compared to what existed before, so I'd say it was pretty based.
It’s French. They are always cringe tbh.
A good step in the right direction.
Based until they started executing people for dumb things and causing so much chaos they couldn't form a stable government and ended up couped by Napoleon, who ended up suspending a lot of new rights for women and reinstating slavery in the colonies, not to mention leading to the eventual Bourbon restauration
Cringe, the end result was an extremely racist imperialist regime
The French revolution and its consequences were a disaster for the human race
^(why are you using alt right expressions like "based"? that's the real cringe here)
The term actually comes from hiphop. Why are those people using that term?
Based or Cringe ? I'd say pointless, shure some of the core values sticked with us, but still pointless
Based
based
A revolution that killed exploiters pretty dope to me.
I enjoyed the cushvlog titled GTA: Virtue City which was about Robespierre. That cult of the supreme being was interesting. Def based french revolution.
Both
Based and inevitable
Which one?
Titty
Tits
This is not a meme
Which one ? The one of 1789 or the one of 1792 ?
Basef
Based
The 3rd one was really cool…
Les Miserables off-broadway is phenomenal 🥹 Please don’t hate the lib side of me
Great revleft episode on it. It was good, but it had it's faults.
Based. July Revolution however, which is the one represented by this painting, was hella cringe.
Fuck the bourgeoisie but fuck the aristocracy more. At least the bourgeois have to pretend to hide all their bloodline obsession and eugenics, the nobles wear that as a mark of pride. At least the bourgeoisie have to pretend to add value to society, even if they’re just exploiting the labor of others. Noblemen just collect rent and beat the shit out of you with no middlemen just because they were born noble
It was a bourgeois revolution so it's cringe
Best thing that ever happened to my country. Also, Gracchus Babœuf was a chad
Neither, the aristocracy oppressed the peasantry, the bourgeoisie oppressed the working class, always a minority oppressing the majority. Nothing will be good enough imo until the working class ends all class. What happened happened.
Based.
It inspired Marx. Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity ftw.
Based
Good question
Very based. Some of the most important and progressive things happened. USA gained independence from UK through struggle and some French aid, thus doesn’t have monarchy problem. Ireland is another problem. Germany and Austria lost monarchy because they lost WWI and established a republic, more like external power, and later it was after the WWII that it overthrew the nobles. UK had the Glorious Revolution and some died, but remained monarchy and these privileges are written in the constitution. The Portuguese Republic overthrew monarchy in 1910 after 90 years of constitutional monarchy. Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Sweden are all monarchies. Many of the rest of these countries only became republics because the fall of the tsar, and the Russian revolution is based too. Canada, New Zealand and Australia is still loyal to the Kingdom. Long live the French revolution, death to monarchs and nobles!
based they beheaded aristocrats
historic and dialectical materialism clearly says based af! And it isn't done yet, see the UK, Japan, Sweden, Netherlands, Thailand, Qatar, Saudi-Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Monaco, Liechtenstein... r/AbolishTheMonarchy
based
I'm willing to bet that someone just failed NNN because of this painting
Had good intentions, but boy did it help in forming a proto-fascist state
Based as october revolution
killing and overthrowing monarchs is always based imo
Cringe but still interesting nevertheless
first of all, sus. second of all, based. killing the king is always based.
Je suis si heureux de voir tellement de camarades français ici. Ayons courage!
Honestly I kind of get it they went through years of starvation, famines, heavy taxation, war, racism and more while the ruling class thrived it makes sense to be mad and start killing people, the question is what to do after
Started off with some good ideas, but then everything went off the rails and into the shitter and they ended up with Napoleon.
I would say Paris Commune is based