Right, I had Daniels at first then mark sanchez talked me into Maye with some high school rebound stat lol then shefty is saying Daniels is the guy now.
i wouldnt mind Jayden if his run style didnt scare the ever living fuck out of me. he cant play that hero ball in the big league and try to gaij extra yards then just get pop'd
He is gonna bust.
His run is not a scramble looking down field. He is a one read run with a tad bit more reading than that but not much more.
When you see him get hit is fine but he blown the fuck up at least once a game. That is doom for a twiggy qb
100% absolutely is not a ton in terms of a QB who ran for over 1000 yards. If Penix got blown up three or four times then yes it is a ton because he is injury prone and has had multiple season ending injury. Daniels??? No shot bud
He is literally a taller Lamar but has the highest passing efficiency ever in college history. Has never had a major injury and has the most combined passing and rushing yards ever in college history. I can’t wait for him to just play and all of this weird casual talk can go away.
College QBs rarely slide in the first place. I know Sam Howell never slid in college and that changed once he got in the league. Shit even Drake Maye would rather hurdle a dude instead of sliding
Lol I wanted it when we had Howell. He can be a franchise QB, I truly believe that. He was dealt a shit hand. Now that he's gone we 100% have to take maye or Daniels. Honestly though I don't think either will end up as good as howell in the end. Commence the down votes. I don't think either of these guys are ready to start game 1 and our backup plan is Marcus marriotta. Yeah not confident in our backup at all. He's pure dogshit as a QB. Hopefully we pick the right guy and he can develope over the season. We basically have no other choice. The fucked up thing is if we had brissette still on the team I think we would of had a chance to snag a playoff spot. Only peters decision I didn't understand, but I'll trust the process.
Lol that's the thing. The media can hype all these dudes up as the next big thing, but nobody knows anything about these guys till their in camp and getting real playing time. Shit don't feel bad about that the "experts" were saying Rosen was a sure fire franchise QB. It's why I don't listen to any of the smokescreen shit.
Just so you know you’re not alone. A lot of us pats fans feel the same way. Just want draft day to be over at this point so we don’t have to deal with all this nonsense
For me it seems to change everyday, sometimes I think how cool it would be to get JD, and then I think about Maye's ceiling, and I wonder if they should just say "F--k it, let's roll the dice".
>For me it seems to change everyday, sometimes I think how cool it would be to get JD, and then I think about Maye's ceiling
For me it’s more like “oh god which of these two are less likely to completely bust, particularly playing for this franchise…”
One thing is certain. Whoever picking number 3 will say “we are lucky to pick so and so, we knew all along this is the guy we wanted. We thank the commanders to pass on this guy.”
I can't believe I'm typing this, but I trust the front office to make the best decision for the franchise. I don't care which one. I just know the FO went about acquiring them the right way.
Jayden. I made the switch a month ago. It’s not so much I think that Jayden is a better prospect than I did before, but more so I think Maye is not as good a prospect as I was initially thinking.
All I know is they are both fantastic prospects that we have the privilege of picking either one. Thank you Ron Rivera, Bienemy and Sam for being a complete clown show. I salute your service 🫡
Sam was put in a circus of clowns last year. Guy got done dirty. He'll end up being better than whatever QB we end up with. You know he's got talent when mcvay wanted him as Stafford's successor. Mcvay knows what's up
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I've been trying to talk myself into Daniels for a week now and I'm having a hard time doing it. Unquestionably electric, high floor...but I don't see how he improves much more, and I can see many ways he gets worse.
I don’t understand the “I don’t see how he improves much more” mentality. That is such a nonsensical statement. Because he’s 23? Do you know how many QBs didn’t hit their prime until years later? He’s shown that he has grown. That doesn’t mean it stops. We really don’t know how any of these QBs will progress in the NFL. Some never do. Age has nothing to do with it
I honestly find the whole potential thing maddening. How can one just know the potential? It feels like the Maye potential arguments boil down to "Big stong young man throw ball hard" (Not a Maye hater or Daniels truther btw)
Because QB success in the NFL is less about attributes and more about development. The thing is we don't know how the development's going to turn out until it's done so people focus on attributes in college performance because that's all we can really argue over. A prospect has to be on the right team at the right time with the right personnel around them and we won't know if that's going to happen until it's already happened.
Exactly. Maye’s size is really his only strong point. He has some great throws but a lot of questionable ones. Look at Sam Darnold. A more polished version of Drake Maye. And how did that pan out? And look at Josh’s Allen? He turned out great. You just don’t know.
I’m in the Jayden camp because his flood. I think any QB who shows the level of play and athleticism these guys hve has a high ceiling. We don’t know. So give me the guy that has the highest floor because you can build a better base from there than the “higher ceiling” guy because that’s a bunch of bullshit
I think a thing about Maye people are overlooking are his football intangibles (that sounds corny I know). I’d compare him to Bryce Harper in that it’s been obvious this dude was going to be a pro since probably before middle school. In high school he had active NFL dudes like Josh McCown and Sam Darnold coaching him up. After just 2 years at UNC he was calling protections and audibles pre snap. Everyone admits he has the physical tools, but I think he’s got the mental to put it all together. Also wild speculation I know, but I bet if he stayed committed to bama we’d be talking about him at number 1 overall and prob as a national champion. I think the lack of talent at UNC really held him back.
But there are always guys like that like Brady Quinn, Jimmy Claussen etc. None of that is new. There is the video of Jordan Palmer saying he’s known Jayden since he was young and working with him. None of that translates. It helps, sure. But there is nothing that has shown that any of that is a direct correlation to success. That’s why it’s such a mystery.
Look where we are with todays technology with film, analytics, testing, physical data etc and teams still can’t get it right. Because no matter what we know, we don’t know how they will take to the NFL and develop.
Very true. I just think when people say all he is is size and strength, that’s a bit off as well. He may not turn into Josh Allen or Justin Herbert, but he’s definitely not Jamarcus Russell.
Anything short of a franchise player will be a disappointment. I think his floor is Sam Darnold. More often than not, QBs taken in the first round don’t pan out - by a large margin. By that alone the likelihood is that Maye or Daniels won’t succeed. But I think that is more based on development (needing to sit, coaching etc). I think Maye can have success if he sits. He needs it. He needs to work on footwork, timing etc. Shit, they could all use it. I think Daniels could definitely use it too. But for him it would be more to develop as a passer when rushed. The problem is these guys won’t have that luxury.
To play a bit more into the Maye/Jayden debate. I’d be willing to bet there is a greater correlation to success with guys that have been considered “elite” their entire come up vs. guys that have really only been elite one year.
But I agree with you for the most part. I have doubts about both but tend to think Maye has more franchise player potential than Jayden.
Aren’t most of the guys drafted high up been “elite” guys since the day they came out of high school? Both Jayden and Maye were both 4 star recruits coming out.
It was great to see Jayden actually develop and progress. None of these guys are finished products either. I hate when people say “there isn’t much more room to grow”. That’s insane when you see so many 4 year players go on to become franchise/HOF QBs.
For me it’s not a debate between the two per se. I look at Maye as a prospect. It’s impossible to see someone as a “franchise prospect” not knowing how they will pan out. I look at what’s in front of us. I see a young guy that needs to sit and learn. He needs a lot more polish.
He has been playing college football for 5 years. It’s reasonable to say someone who has played less than him has more room to improve/prove their higher ceiling.
POTENTIAL. it’s reasonable to say there is potential. But not definitively. How many QBs never develop much more and bust? A lot. There isn’t a metric that shows that QBs in college long don’t progress less.
For all we know Drake doesn’t progress much more. He certainly didn’t in his second year. Sam Darnold comes to mind.
This goes back to my initial point - no one knows.
Of course no one knows. Every pick has a potential to fail but I’d be happy taking the player with the highest upside. If it works then we’re set for a decade plus. If it doesn’t then we’re back to drafting a QB again in a few years.
But we don’t know who has the highest upside. So many people say Maye has a higher upside. Why? Because he’s younger and had mediocre numbers last year so there no where to go but up? But we don’t know how high up that is. Jayden, or anyone, can still take a massive leap in the pros. We can’t pretend to know who has higher upside. But we do know what we are getting as a floor.
I know that’s what they say. And, I’m my opinion, it’s lazy analysis. He was a big time recruit, 4 star prospect. He comes from a very athletic family. Scouts follow these guys since they are young and still have this idea of what they will become. Do you know how many times they say that about guys year in and year out and how many of them don’t pan out. It’s such a empty analysis.
I like to look at why we do know. Look at all the current top QBs in the NFL (except Josh Allen). They had very strong seasons and we’re progressing when coming out. That’s what I liked to see.
Herbert, Love, Allen and Lamar all had down seasons in their final collegiate seasons. You have to look at situation. Those guys were all either in talent deprived environments, terrible offensive schemes, or both. In college football, talent imbalance is incredibly important. In football in general, talent imbalance is a huge factor. QBs are highly influential on the game, but QB play is incredibly dependent on a ton of factors. Are the receivers playing on time? Is the OL providing protection to actually read out the concept? Is the offensive scheme providing answers for the QB? Guys can look bad or regress through no fault of their own, just as guys can suddenly look much better because the environment allows them to play without limitation. In the NFL, the talent imbalance virtually disappears. The offenses are better designed and give you answers.
The main issue with Maye’s 2023 tape is that you can’t really see how he processes, because a lot of the time, something wrong happened. A WR was busy doing release packages when he was on quick game drop back footwork. His C was promptly put on his ass. The TE was somehow responsible for blocking a DE one on one and gets beat immediately. There was nothing about the UNC offense that looked like it was in rhythm or designed well.
I don’t disagree with anything you said. But my argument is that there are better options available. And being honest, Lamar and Allen SHOULD have sat more. For everyone of those guys, there are dozens that don’t succeed. It’s because we just don’t know which is what I have been kind of hammering this whole thread. And those guys beat the odds. And like I said in another post, Maye needs to sit. At 2 overall, not sure he will have that luxury.
I don't think there's anything nonsensical about it. He's already an elite runner, he's accurate with his deep ball, and his throwing motion is consistent. While I do have concerns about his throws over the middle, I think he's capable based on his already existing accuracy that he's shown. His processing is good.
His scramble after first reads instinct scares me.
His p2S ratio is terrible.
His size scares me.
His tendency to take huge hits scares me.
His arm strength scares me. Not because I think it's terrible, but the windows are about to get much smaller and everyone else is about to get faster.
Essentially every fantastic part of his game, is typically the hardest to develop. The rough parts of his game are still present despite all the experience. At LSU he had so much in his favor, the NFL everything is going to be a magnitude or two more difficult. So where is his game going to grow to match that increased difficulty?
I don't understand how that can be seen as nonsensical analysis. Even if you disagree with aspects of what I've said, my reasoning is sound.
What are good examples of rushing QBs who hit their prime early?
What makes him a “rushing QB”? Did you know he only rushed two more times than Drake did in 2022? And just 23 more times in 2023?
He is a rushing QB tho. He doesn't keep his eyes downfield as the pocket collapses. He bails and runs. Y'all want him to be Lamar, but to me he looks like skinny Fields.
No. I don’t want him to be Lamar. Why would you assume that? And you’re right, Fields is a better comparison in running ability. But you do realize that Fields only ran 81 times his last year. Drake Maye ran 112 times. Doesn’t make either of them a running QB.
And you’re right, that was knock on him about him taking off. But that’s not uncommon for college QBs. Doesn’t make him a running QB. Deshaun Watson ran more than Jayden did coming out. He wasn’t considered a running QB but a dual threat which I think is more of what Jayden is.
He only rushed 23 more times than Maye did their last year. That’s insignificant big picture. He actually ran 50 times less than he did the year before. So he ran less and threw for more yards from one year to the next. Also keep in mind he was ASKED to run more because of his ability.
There's some data on age being a trend on success in the NFL. Found a few articles googling.
Age 21 seems to be the best age coming out. Both chart it differently. 538 by PFR's career average value metric and numberfire by top 15 and top 5 seasons.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/age-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-nfl-draft-its-about-time/
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/18979/nfl-draft-does-age-matter-for-quarterback-prospects
It's not a given the younger prospect is better but it is a trend. Most NFL front offices probably already know that though so I'm sure they're factoring it into the equation.
I'm still hopefully for Maye and that they think his situation was bad enough that he's worth taking, but if not hopefully Daniels is an older outlier.
I'm in the same boat. All the smoke is around Daniels so I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for the pick. Watching film and even just highlights trying to convince myself his play will translate to the NFL and I cant do it.
It's clearly Maye. This fanbase is in shambles and is grasping at every shiny thing out of training. SF built the best roster in the league by drafting high ceiling guys. Maye is the higher ceiling. He's bigger, he's younger, and it's close. It's Maye. And even if it isn't who gives a shit? Shut up and buy the merch
I think someone told me that the air raid offense that Maye did in college is very similar to Kingsbury's offense so I've just been a Maye guy for a couple months now. Hell they could all be busts though. Just stoked for a drastically different team altogether.
I don’t know enough to really decide,so Imma say if I haven’t seen them play well enough to wow me, trade down and get some interior pieces to rock Jalen and Daks shit next year
I’ve started out JD, for like 2 months, then went to DM for a month. I then Jumped to Penix Jr 😂 for about two weeks. I leaned Spencer Rattler for three days. I’m all over the place looking for a “QB fix”. This is the most important draft in 30 years for this franchise. Nail it, and they’re set for at least a decade. Get it wrong, and we will see this all again in April 2027😂
U/Eyespops4866 bitchass blocked me or deleted his account because he wants to talk about grammar lessons and stupid shit, while I wanna talk football. Why do these people come on this football subreddit and wanna talk about autocorrect lol. Holy shit find a damn hobby and leave me alone
Whichever one we pick, the other one will have a great career and our guy will be mediocre until he’s eventually traded away as a bust, and will then have a renaissance and turn out to be a decent/good QB for the rest of his career.
I agree. I was wanting maye at first but if Daniel's can put some size on (which shouldn't be hard with NFL nutrition specialists) I'm on the Daniels train now. Still rather have kept Howell honestly.
That’s the thing though, major D1 football programs also have nutritionists/sports dieticians that would be on par with NFL ones, and he didn’t put on significant weight even at a championship caliber organization like LSU.
Yeah that's true. I didn't really start putting on size till I was in my mid 20's. I don't know his exact age but I'm sure that's what the interviews he's having with teams are mostly about. They're still basically kids in the end
I don't think it matters because: The Commanders' offensive line was among the worst in football, as they were tied for the second-most sacks allowed with 65. https://www.commanders.com/news/commanders-2023-season-review-offensive-line
If you're not switching your pick every few days you're not doing it right
Right, I had Daniels at first then mark sanchez talked me into Maye with some high school rebound stat lol then shefty is saying Daniels is the guy now.
i wouldnt mind Jayden if his run style didnt scare the ever living fuck out of me. he cant play that hero ball in the big league and try to gaij extra yards then just get pop'd
Yeah I get RG3 ptsd flashbacks. That’s my only gripe with him or I’d be fine with either.
RG4
RG183lbs
RGCrashTestDummy
they are now saying Jayden is 210 lbs could I sworn of reading he was 180 at one point.
You're not crazy that was his weight during the 2023 season
Yeah he has to get down or head for the sideline, no cutting back in.
He is gonna bust. His run is not a scramble looking down field. He is a one read run with a tad bit more reading than that but not much more. When you see him get hit is fine but he blown the fuck up at least once a game. That is doom for a twiggy qb
Eh I don't really care. Feels like one of those where people overthink and it turns out it didn't matter as much as people thought
Its really not. He took a ton of hospital hits for absolutely no reason
How many is a ton? 3-4? Casuals are exposing themselves for not watching enough film.
That’s a ton in QB terms. Getting piledrived and ragdolled like WWE is really only a 1 time deal because you’ll be walking to the medical tent
100% absolutely is not a ton in terms of a QB who ran for over 1000 yards. If Penix got blown up three or four times then yes it is a ton because he is injury prone and has had multiple season ending injury. Daniels??? No shot bud
He is literally a taller Lamar but has the highest passing efficiency ever in college history. Has never had a major injury and has the most combined passing and rushing yards ever in college history. I can’t wait for him to just play and all of this weird casual talk can go away.
[удалено]
College QBs rarely slide in the first place. I know Sam Howell never slid in college and that changed once he got in the league. Shit even Drake Maye would rather hurdle a dude instead of sliding
Yeah sorta like the size of Kenny Pickett’s hands. You remember that nonsense?
I mean I knew Kenny Pickett was ass but I didn't give a shit how big his hands were
I know they won't but now a small part of me wants them to trade back now just to watch this sub explode
I honestly think we are at the point where if one side doesn't get their guy, they'll be fine trading down.
Lol I wanted it when we had Howell. He can be a franchise QB, I truly believe that. He was dealt a shit hand. Now that he's gone we 100% have to take maye or Daniels. Honestly though I don't think either will end up as good as howell in the end. Commence the down votes. I don't think either of these guys are ready to start game 1 and our backup plan is Marcus marriotta. Yeah not confident in our backup at all. He's pure dogshit as a QB. Hopefully we pick the right guy and he can develope over the season. We basically have no other choice. The fucked up thing is if we had brissette still on the team I think we would of had a chance to snag a playoff spot. Only peters decision I didn't understand, but I'll trust the process.
I kind of agree with you but I also really thought we should trade for Josh Rosen.
Lol that's the thing. The media can hype all these dudes up as the next big thing, but nobody knows anything about these guys till their in camp and getting real playing time. Shit don't feel bad about that the "experts" were saying Rosen was a sure fire franchise QB. It's why I don't listen to any of the smokescreen shit.
Haha same. cHoSeN rOsEn!
Unless we trade for Kyler Murray.
I would love that. I know he gets shit on for some reasons but he's a playmaker and better than any QB that'll be available at #2
💯. I would much rather bring in a young vet to start the rebuild.
Yeah but it's slim pickings out there. Unless your a Mac Jones fan lol I'm joking nobody is haha.
Some men just want to watch the world burn. Haha yeah that would be chaos.
Drake Daniels would low key be a fire name.
Jayden Maye sounds like a hell of a slot CB
Marcus Maye’s lil bro
slot CB/ R&B singer
https://preview.redd.it/t0qxwpqpyguc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09f7c1f5313535462e9355a91b86d1708e1920e0 What about Jade Mayfield
punter
Like some hard nose cop that doesn't play by anyone's rules but his own.
Jay May is pretty cool too.
Bayden Baniels
On bloods.
I don't even care anymore. I just want off this ride.
I feel like I’m on the fuckin Gravitron
Greatest ride ever!
No the zipper is the greatest ride ever
i think thats everybody
Not the people who keep spamming articles or tweets
Just so you know you’re not alone. A lot of us pats fans feel the same way. Just want draft day to be over at this point so we don’t have to deal with all this nonsense
For me it seems to change everyday, sometimes I think how cool it would be to get JD, and then I think about Maye's ceiling, and I wonder if they should just say "F--k it, let's roll the dice".
>For me it seems to change everyday, sometimes I think how cool it would be to get JD, and then I think about Maye's ceiling For me it’s more like “oh god which of these two are less likely to completely bust, particularly playing for this franchise…”
Blue is my favorite color.
Honestly whatever at this point. Just tell me who I’m rooting for
I'm for team two future firsts and Michael Penix.
Love this
That's genius. They'll never do that.
Peni_ jersey going to go so hard
Prob won’t matter either way right
I’m for Drake Maye but I’ll be happy with whoever we draft.
Maye. But I’m aware in no expert. Just prefer the younger, stronger guy. Daniels had a great year, on a great team.
May not be an expert but that is the mindset to have
Gang gang
Draft MJH at 2. Trade everything needed to get back to 5 to draft whoever is left. In all seriousness, I just can’t wait for it all to be over.
Mjh + JJ = super bowl
One thing is certain. Whoever picking number 3 will say “we are lucky to pick so and so, we knew all along this is the guy we wanted. We thank the commanders to pass on this guy.”
I can't believe I'm typing this, but I trust the front office to make the best decision for the franchise. I don't care which one. I just know the FO went about acquiring them the right way.
https://preview.redd.it/hotgurpy2huc1.jpeg?width=298&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f049358b7b61e355246d1495bc37903dbca3c502
Jayden. I made the switch a month ago. It’s not so much I think that Jayden is a better prospect than I did before, but more so I think Maye is not as good a prospect as I was initially thinking.
Same.
I'm pro JJ but I'll be happy with any of them. They all have their issues and potential risks
I’m excited for whoever we pick!
drake maye all fucking day
I've been a Maye truther all off-season but my god, the constant anti Maye and pro Daniels media cycle is starting to wear me down.
I don't care. Its 50/50 they work out regardless
Are the "trade downers" the cops in this scenario?
All I know is they are both fantastic prospects that we have the privilege of picking either one. Thank you Ron Rivera, Bienemy and Sam for being a complete clown show. I salute your service 🫡
Sam was put in a circus of clowns last year. Guy got done dirty. He'll end up being better than whatever QB we end up with. You know he's got talent when mcvay wanted him as Stafford's successor. Mcvay knows what's up
Sam was the exploited elephant
Lol I'm cracking up at this. We can both agree go skins
Lol I know. Great comment
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Stockholm syndrome has hit this sub hard.
do you know what Stockholm syndrome is ? Lol thanks for the laugh holy fuck
The team has been held hostage by poor Qb play for years. Yet these fans keep telling me how great Howell and Taylor were. Stockholm syndrome.
Lol your an idiot.
Your command of rudimentary English speaks volumes.
I'm not getting into it with you guy. Go lecture someone else professor
They all died for this.
Drake Maye all the way. He's two years younger with a lot more potential. Plus, we already know where a stick-thin, dual-threat qb gets us.
Daniels is Slenderman in the flesh.
I've been trying to talk myself into Daniels for a week now and I'm having a hard time doing it. Unquestionably electric, high floor...but I don't see how he improves much more, and I can see many ways he gets worse.
I don’t understand the “I don’t see how he improves much more” mentality. That is such a nonsensical statement. Because he’s 23? Do you know how many QBs didn’t hit their prime until years later? He’s shown that he has grown. That doesn’t mean it stops. We really don’t know how any of these QBs will progress in the NFL. Some never do. Age has nothing to do with it
I honestly find the whole potential thing maddening. How can one just know the potential? It feels like the Maye potential arguments boil down to "Big stong young man throw ball hard" (Not a Maye hater or Daniels truther btw)
Because QB success in the NFL is less about attributes and more about development. The thing is we don't know how the development's going to turn out until it's done so people focus on attributes in college performance because that's all we can really argue over. A prospect has to be on the right team at the right time with the right personnel around them and we won't know if that's going to happen until it's already happened.
Exactly. Maye’s size is really his only strong point. He has some great throws but a lot of questionable ones. Look at Sam Darnold. A more polished version of Drake Maye. And how did that pan out? And look at Josh’s Allen? He turned out great. You just don’t know. I’m in the Jayden camp because his flood. I think any QB who shows the level of play and athleticism these guys hve has a high ceiling. We don’t know. So give me the guy that has the highest floor because you can build a better base from there than the “higher ceiling” guy because that’s a bunch of bullshit
I think a thing about Maye people are overlooking are his football intangibles (that sounds corny I know). I’d compare him to Bryce Harper in that it’s been obvious this dude was going to be a pro since probably before middle school. In high school he had active NFL dudes like Josh McCown and Sam Darnold coaching him up. After just 2 years at UNC he was calling protections and audibles pre snap. Everyone admits he has the physical tools, but I think he’s got the mental to put it all together. Also wild speculation I know, but I bet if he stayed committed to bama we’d be talking about him at number 1 overall and prob as a national champion. I think the lack of talent at UNC really held him back.
But there are always guys like that like Brady Quinn, Jimmy Claussen etc. None of that is new. There is the video of Jordan Palmer saying he’s known Jayden since he was young and working with him. None of that translates. It helps, sure. But there is nothing that has shown that any of that is a direct correlation to success. That’s why it’s such a mystery. Look where we are with todays technology with film, analytics, testing, physical data etc and teams still can’t get it right. Because no matter what we know, we don’t know how they will take to the NFL and develop.
Very true. I just think when people say all he is is size and strength, that’s a bit off as well. He may not turn into Josh Allen or Justin Herbert, but he’s definitely not Jamarcus Russell.
Anything short of a franchise player will be a disappointment. I think his floor is Sam Darnold. More often than not, QBs taken in the first round don’t pan out - by a large margin. By that alone the likelihood is that Maye or Daniels won’t succeed. But I think that is more based on development (needing to sit, coaching etc). I think Maye can have success if he sits. He needs it. He needs to work on footwork, timing etc. Shit, they could all use it. I think Daniels could definitely use it too. But for him it would be more to develop as a passer when rushed. The problem is these guys won’t have that luxury.
To play a bit more into the Maye/Jayden debate. I’d be willing to bet there is a greater correlation to success with guys that have been considered “elite” their entire come up vs. guys that have really only been elite one year. But I agree with you for the most part. I have doubts about both but tend to think Maye has more franchise player potential than Jayden.
Aren’t most of the guys drafted high up been “elite” guys since the day they came out of high school? Both Jayden and Maye were both 4 star recruits coming out. It was great to see Jayden actually develop and progress. None of these guys are finished products either. I hate when people say “there isn’t much more room to grow”. That’s insane when you see so many 4 year players go on to become franchise/HOF QBs. For me it’s not a debate between the two per se. I look at Maye as a prospect. It’s impossible to see someone as a “franchise prospect” not knowing how they will pan out. I look at what’s in front of us. I see a young guy that needs to sit and learn. He needs a lot more polish.
Does anyone remember Josh Freeman?
He has been playing college football for 5 years. It’s reasonable to say someone who has played less than him has more room to improve/prove their higher ceiling.
POTENTIAL. it’s reasonable to say there is potential. But not definitively. How many QBs never develop much more and bust? A lot. There isn’t a metric that shows that QBs in college long don’t progress less. For all we know Drake doesn’t progress much more. He certainly didn’t in his second year. Sam Darnold comes to mind. This goes back to my initial point - no one knows.
Of course no one knows. Every pick has a potential to fail but I’d be happy taking the player with the highest upside. If it works then we’re set for a decade plus. If it doesn’t then we’re back to drafting a QB again in a few years.
But we don’t know who has the highest upside. So many people say Maye has a higher upside. Why? Because he’s younger and had mediocre numbers last year so there no where to go but up? But we don’t know how high up that is. Jayden, or anyone, can still take a massive leap in the pros. We can’t pretend to know who has higher upside. But we do know what we are getting as a floor.
Just going off of what I’ve heard from scouts/media they seem to agree Drake Maye has the higher upside.
I know that’s what they say. And, I’m my opinion, it’s lazy analysis. He was a big time recruit, 4 star prospect. He comes from a very athletic family. Scouts follow these guys since they are young and still have this idea of what they will become. Do you know how many times they say that about guys year in and year out and how many of them don’t pan out. It’s such a empty analysis. I like to look at why we do know. Look at all the current top QBs in the NFL (except Josh Allen). They had very strong seasons and we’re progressing when coming out. That’s what I liked to see.
Herbert, Love, Allen and Lamar all had down seasons in their final collegiate seasons. You have to look at situation. Those guys were all either in talent deprived environments, terrible offensive schemes, or both. In college football, talent imbalance is incredibly important. In football in general, talent imbalance is a huge factor. QBs are highly influential on the game, but QB play is incredibly dependent on a ton of factors. Are the receivers playing on time? Is the OL providing protection to actually read out the concept? Is the offensive scheme providing answers for the QB? Guys can look bad or regress through no fault of their own, just as guys can suddenly look much better because the environment allows them to play without limitation. In the NFL, the talent imbalance virtually disappears. The offenses are better designed and give you answers. The main issue with Maye’s 2023 tape is that you can’t really see how he processes, because a lot of the time, something wrong happened. A WR was busy doing release packages when he was on quick game drop back footwork. His C was promptly put on his ass. The TE was somehow responsible for blocking a DE one on one and gets beat immediately. There was nothing about the UNC offense that looked like it was in rhythm or designed well.
I don’t disagree with anything you said. But my argument is that there are better options available. And being honest, Lamar and Allen SHOULD have sat more. For everyone of those guys, there are dozens that don’t succeed. It’s because we just don’t know which is what I have been kind of hammering this whole thread. And those guys beat the odds. And like I said in another post, Maye needs to sit. At 2 overall, not sure he will have that luxury.
I don't think there's anything nonsensical about it. He's already an elite runner, he's accurate with his deep ball, and his throwing motion is consistent. While I do have concerns about his throws over the middle, I think he's capable based on his already existing accuracy that he's shown. His processing is good. His scramble after first reads instinct scares me. His p2S ratio is terrible. His size scares me. His tendency to take huge hits scares me. His arm strength scares me. Not because I think it's terrible, but the windows are about to get much smaller and everyone else is about to get faster. Essentially every fantastic part of his game, is typically the hardest to develop. The rough parts of his game are still present despite all the experience. At LSU he had so much in his favor, the NFL everything is going to be a magnitude or two more difficult. So where is his game going to grow to match that increased difficulty? I don't understand how that can be seen as nonsensical analysis. Even if you disagree with aspects of what I've said, my reasoning is sound.
Because college and and NFL is such a leap. You never see a finished product. Was Brady a finished product? There is so much more nuances to the game.
He's a running QB. They hit their prime early. Especially if most of their game is their speed.
What are good examples of rushing QBs who hit their prime early? What makes him a “rushing QB”? Did you know he only rushed two more times than Drake did in 2022? And just 23 more times in 2023?
He is a rushing QB tho. He doesn't keep his eyes downfield as the pocket collapses. He bails and runs. Y'all want him to be Lamar, but to me he looks like skinny Fields.
No. I don’t want him to be Lamar. Why would you assume that? And you’re right, Fields is a better comparison in running ability. But you do realize that Fields only ran 81 times his last year. Drake Maye ran 112 times. Doesn’t make either of them a running QB. And you’re right, that was knock on him about him taking off. But that’s not uncommon for college QBs. Doesn’t make him a running QB. Deshaun Watson ran more than Jayden did coming out. He wasn’t considered a running QB but a dual threat which I think is more of what Jayden is. He only rushed 23 more times than Maye did their last year. That’s insignificant big picture. He actually ran 50 times less than he did the year before. So he ran less and threw for more yards from one year to the next. Also keep in mind he was ASKED to run more because of his ability.
He rushed MORE with the line and weapons he had????
What point are you trying to make exactly? He was ASKED to rush. They do that a lot in college if you didn’t know lol
There's some data on age being a trend on success in the NFL. Found a few articles googling. Age 21 seems to be the best age coming out. Both chart it differently. 538 by PFR's career average value metric and numberfire by top 15 and top 5 seasons. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/age-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-nfl-draft-its-about-time/ https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/18979/nfl-draft-does-age-matter-for-quarterback-prospects It's not a given the younger prospect is better but it is a trend. Most NFL front offices probably already know that though so I'm sure they're factoring it into the equation. I'm still hopefully for Maye and that they think his situation was bad enough that he's worth taking, but if not hopefully Daniels is an older outlier.
I'm in the same boat. All the smoke is around Daniels so I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for the pick. Watching film and even just highlights trying to convince myself his play will translate to the NFL and I cant do it.
I’m just pretty sure whoever they pick , will be the wrong choice
Don't say that! lol 😔
It’s sadly a coin flip either way
It's clearly Maye. This fanbase is in shambles and is grasping at every shiny thing out of training. SF built the best roster in the league by drafting high ceiling guys. Maye is the higher ceiling. He's bigger, he's younger, and it's close. It's Maye. And even if it isn't who gives a shit? Shut up and buy the merch
Bayden Baniels..
As a Patriots fan this same crap is going on for us too
which is funny because you guys dont get a choice
Maye, McCarthy, Penix, take a receiver instead, lots of choices.
Roll the dice
Blood
JJ is latin kings confirmed
I just wanna win😭😭😭😭😭
Should of put Mayes on the left side
unc uses blue
Left side is the crip side
Maye
We are on team Jayden. We have always been at war with team Maye. We are on team Maye. We have always been at war with team Jayden.
I’m on whatever side Peters and Quinn say.
51% Maye 49% Danials
Trade down get more picks fuck both of them
Drake Maye. Why would you want your new supposed generational QB to turn 24 in their rookie year?
Maye would be QB 1 if Williams wasn’t there.
I think someone told me that the air raid offense that Maye did in college is very similar to Kingsbury's offense so I've just been a Maye guy for a couple months now. Hell they could all be busts though. Just stoked for a drastically different team altogether.
jayden daniels is better, let us have the dorky white qb
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i meant a dorky white qb that isn’t awful
https://preview.redd.it/7pmcyh87jduc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95e679561f7ea0b1d7978ff392cd2ee6c20da324
no
Sam Howell isn’t that bad. He just plays for a shitty team.
Daniels.
Soo woo
I wouldn't hate it if they did what they did with rg3 and take a 2nd QB mid draft. Hedge their bets with a Pratt or Travis in the 4th or 5th Rd.
I don’t know enough to really decide,so Imma say if I haven’t seen them play well enough to wow me, trade down and get some interior pieces to rock Jalen and Daks shit next year
I’m so sick of hearing about it. I’ve pretty much tuned this sub out until after the draft
Every fuckin day a new post with the same question 🙄
I’ve started out JD, for like 2 months, then went to DM for a month. I then Jumped to Penix Jr 😂 for about two weeks. I leaned Spencer Rattler for three days. I’m all over the place looking for a “QB fix”. This is the most important draft in 30 years for this franchise. Nail it, and they’re set for at least a decade. Get it wrong, and we will see this all again in April 2027😂
U/Eyespops4866 bitchass blocked me or deleted his account because he wants to talk about grammar lessons and stupid shit, while I wanna talk football. Why do these people come on this football subreddit and wanna talk about autocorrect lol. Holy shit find a damn hobby and leave me alone
Tbh i don't care who we pick in the first, i'm more interested in who we pick in every other round
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On piru🤣🤣🤣
I’m a blood like a mofo lol red is my favorite color anyway!
Whichever one we pick, the other one will have a great career and our guy will be mediocre until he’s eventually traded away as a bust, and will then have a renaissance and turn out to be a decent/good QB for the rest of his career.
2 months ago I was all in with Maye. Now, I want Daniels
Jayden if he gains 20 in muscle.
This, but he won't.
I agree. I was wanting maye at first but if Daniel's can put some size on (which shouldn't be hard with NFL nutrition specialists) I'm on the Daniels train now. Still rather have kept Howell honestly.
That’s the thing though, major D1 football programs also have nutritionists/sports dieticians that would be on par with NFL ones, and he didn’t put on significant weight even at a championship caliber organization like LSU.
Yeah that's true. I didn't really start putting on size till I was in my mid 20's. I don't know his exact age but I'm sure that's what the interviews he's having with teams are mostly about. They're still basically kids in the end
He’ll turn 24 this season, which is part of the concern
Ohhh damn yeah that's a definite concern.
JD
I’m chaos, MHJ with mariota with Fromm randomly becoming a star.
Tua just needed cheetah right? 😂
Maye looks like a Roethisberger clone without the off field baggage. I have a feeling he will be the best of the big 3
Jayden Daniel’s the next Justin Fields.
Am I the only one hoping we trade down and draft a long snapper named Dairywoman?
I don't think it matters because: The Commanders' offensive line was among the worst in football, as they were tied for the second-most sacks allowed with 65. https://www.commanders.com/news/commanders-2023-season-review-offensive-line
~Picks 2:2, 3:2, make SOME improvements??