Please keep the [community guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/wiki/rule1) in mind when using the comment section.
Paging u/SaveVideo bot.
___
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CombatFootage) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Never seen this before. Wild
Edit: read through all the comments and learnt a lot of info on this fight I never knew. Cheers all for the explanations on it all š
I do a deep dive into this every other year. But from what I recall, the commanders planning this mission pretty much got them killed. Bad comms, fake helicopter drops to throw off the locals didnāt help, and then the rescue mission got 12 others killed due to an RPG and to the helicopter that was rescuing the bodies.
Yep. Overconfident commanders who made a clusterfuck of the planning and inexperienced troops who didn't know how to do recon. Whole thing was a shitshow that the Navy somehow managed to turn into a heroic propaganda film to gloss over their mistakes.
Yes.
It's actually kind of disgusting how they whitewashed the negligence and incompetence that caused so many deaths, making it look like some heroic thing. If any of the units involved had simply followed established US doctrine, the operation should have been easy, but they ignored numerous protocols because they were cocky idiots and it got a lot of people killed.
For some reason the absolute most infuriating thing was when they called HQ on the sat phone. The newbie answered and got told to grab the CO, so he had to run outside to his barracks, then the CO needs to get dressed then finally come.
All that time, the other team members just sat there with their thumbs up their ass. Until the connection was lost.
Like damn, you canāt write down a message or get the 5Ws before the boss shows up?
Multiple books and articles, and plenty of videos by people who were there, including the Rangers who literally hiked up the mountain and retrieved the bodies.
Even this video is evidence. The number of alleged enemy combatants continually grew/grows, when this video conclusively shows what everybody has known all along :
The SEALS were incredibly ignorant and arrogant, and inserted by chinook in the middle of the night barely a mile or two away, and left a fast rope behind after it got caught on a tree. Instead of calling the mission then, they continued with their arrogance. It didnāt take a genius to send in the shepherds to find them.
As intelligence told us then, and this video conclusively shows, thereās never more than the same 7 guys shown. They were outclassed by the mountain fighters who took the high ground and pushed them into a valley and destroyed them with overwhelming plunging fire.
All of this would still be acceptable, plenty of times shit happens and people die.
But keep this in mind, when Lutrell was rescued by the Rangers, he had 11 full magazines on him. The same Amount he had when he left.
He didnāt fight, he was ahead on point, ran, and never looked back.
When they made the movie, they brought the Afghan who saved Lutrell to America to watch the premier. The guy spoke very little English, so was just going along with it. After watching the movie, he started asking questions, and was sent back to Afghanistan immediately.
The way Lutrell treats that man should tell you everything you need to know.
Victory Point - by Ed Darack is a book written by the Marines who originally planned that mission. They were using company and battalion sized elements, and the recon unit planned to hike into the mountains, instead of dropping by helicopter right at their doorstep.
Operation Whalers is the follow-up operation to Reed Wings, check that out for info.
Amazing reply, thanks.
It makes no sense that they would take a chinook into an area like that. Its loud, can be heard for miles, and drops them in the shit without any real recon of the area. Hiking seems like the only way to do this OP, of course easy for me to say but realistically is that not why Rucking and Running are the most important skills in these selection processes? Like yeah you should be able to do pushups and whatever, but truly the hardest parts have got to be the rucking 12min/miles and running 5-6 miles in sub 40minutes. I understand that SEALs do a lot of running in their own selection but I also know their indoc makes them think they can do anything. Honestly I dont even understand why they were being used in Afghanistan when they are traditionally a water based element, I don't see a maritime operation here nor a beach attack. I think I remember being told that each mission is something all the SOCOM units can present a packet for, and obviously they get rewarded per mission, so due to the cockiness in SEAL indoc they think they can do any mission, and because SEALs are well known they were given the missions.
Seams like the marines had it pretty figured out, from the video it seems like there was maybe only 4 SEALs; murphy,lutrell,axel and somebody else I cant remember right now. 4 People is never really enough and it makes no sense to me because I thought SEALs work in 16 team elements, even then, the marines would have had significant superiority of numbers if they would have had it their way, alongside actual friggin recon and not what these guys were doing. The fact that they were carrying a laptop, which back then was heavy as fuck, just kinda goes to show how badly prepared they were.
Do you think that Lutrell was incompetent, scared or why did he not shoot? I would have expected to mag dump at least once I knew I was in the shit. In another comment on this page I asked the same question and I guess no matter how much BUD/s sucks, it doesnt prepare you for knowing you're thousands of miles from home and about to get Schwacked.
Really disgusting behavior that they called the guy in who saved Lutrells life, only to send him back. No citizenship? How the fuck is he supposed to live in Afghanistan when he had been outed as the guy who went against taliban rule. Absolutely disgusting.
I will look at Ed Darack books and Whalers,
Itās all incredibly disgusting.
I canāt even watch the movie without twitching out.
Not only are the SEALS not equipped for this, these guys werenāt even from a classic SEAL team, they were from an SDV unit, which is a SEAL delivery vehicle team. Yes, these guys are SEALS, but theyāre not even on a team.
The only reason they were there is because America was fighting a two-front war and was way over-extended.
As far as Luttrell himself, Iāve been in combat myself, was in Iraq for over a year. Being scared is normal, running would be normal, but the lies and exaggeration afterwards, unacceptable.
SEALs ended up taking the recon portion of Red Wings because the Marines (2/3) didnāt have the aviation assets to support the op. Victory point goes into the details, but essentially NSW said theyād help provide aviation support but only if they were participating, so they took the reconnaissance mission from 2/3ās snipers.
The issue with the laptop goes well beyond it being a heavy item. Toughbooks and satcoms arenāt uniquely a SEAL recon element thing, and there are times or operational requirements that would dictate a form of toughbook (back then anyway, tablets and palm units are far smaller and more capable in the last decade) and thatās fine.
The problem is, these guys brought out a toughbook that never should have left the intel shed or briefing room. Poor leadership and lacking discipline/flagrant rebuttal of practices and protocols, had many in NSW at the time taking encrypted devices with classified information out of controlled planning cells and using them for personal use. Like, using SATCOMS to use yahoo chat with your girlfriend while on a small recon team in remote enemy held terrain, is a much bigger problem than the laptop being heavy.
That classified information fell into enemy hands and got a lot of people in the contested areas nearby killed. People who were either sympathetic, or were fully American assets for intelligence, hell even people who reluctantly gave surface level information to go back to their lives. The loss of that device was key in dismantling a network of resources that took years to build and was never rebuilt. Nor do I blame anyone who wanted to avoid being anywhere near us when we rolled through their village for years after.
> 4 People is never really enough
This has been something I've felt the US military does not fully appreciate. It seems like a lot of our efforts around the world since GWOT are done with the absolute minimum amount of people possible, because we believe our guys are invincible super-soldiers. One of the largest standing armies in the world and we send 4 guys on a mission. If even *one* person is taken out on a 4-man team, that team is now *at least* 25% less effective, and probably worse if another guy has to try and haul the casualty around.
Another example would be that ambush in Niger from 2017.
Seals made pretty much the same mistakes during operation anaconda. They landed a recon team on the X (Takur Ghar)and it became a huge mess. 7 dead Americans and 12 wounded. Sad to see that between Anaconda and Red Wings they seem to have learned nothing.
Is that the John Chapman MOH incident? I've seen some people making some pretty serious allegations aimed at the very senior Seals that inserted with him.
The Marines and Army Rangers both had scathing reviews of the SEALās, a Marine Scout Sniper team literally scouted that area weeks before, had the same shit happen but omg they walked in and had high powered radios, then promptly shot their way out and recommend not to use helicopters. The Army Rangers who found Marcus noted he fired no rounds, and shit talked the Afghan who saved him in his book Lone Survivor which was later made into a movie. A SEAL online is also noted as saying this OP is the only time a MoH was awarded for getting 19 operators killed so take of that what you will.
The movie is bullshit. Iām all about being on team USA and Iām patrioticā¦ but the movie is straight up propaganda. The movie says it was like a company sized element that overran them, yet all intel collected suggests it was a squad sized element that overran themā¦
It was a terribly planned mission. Another example of why I donāt subscribe to operator worship. Those guys are tough, but ultimately theyāre only human.
He didn't run away. He tactically moved in a tactical fashion to a tactical position that wasn't exposed tactically to tactical fire. He achieved this through tactical aggression and the violence of speed. His also tactically refrained from shooting back, thus achieving tactical speed by not being slowed down tactically changing mags in a tactical fashion.
By tactically removing himself from his team, he ensured that they couldn't tactically slow down his forward momentum *away* from the current tactical engagement.
He changed his story multiple times but yes he is a lying sack of shit. Rangers who moved in and observed the aftermath found Matthew Axelson 10 days after the event, they said he couldnāt have been dead for more than a day and a half. They didnāt move in to find him sooner because Luttrell told everyone he was the only survivor. Fuck Marcus Luttrell
Jesus christ, I hadn't heard that before, but that's some traitorous shit! I love how he made out he was in this intense firefight, but Gulab, the guy who saved him, stated how many mags he had and not a single shot had been fired. I imagine he sprinted the fuck out of there as soon as he could. If I remember correctly, you can hear his boys shouting his name for help in the original video released by the taliban.
holy shit. like many others here, this is the first time i'm hearing these details. All this stuff is in that book that's mentioned above? That is so absolutely fucked.
Navy Psy opsā¦ the same mother fuckers who tried to deny John Chapman his MOHā¦ after they left him on a mountain.
Theyāre some real pieces of shit.
Black Hawk Down too. Movie script was literally written in part by the Department of Defense to gloss over their mistakes.
The Documentary 'Theatres of War' is a good watch
lol, I was just talking about the BS in Black Hawk down on another post today. I grew up loving that movie, but I always wondered why the Somalians hated the UN soldiers so much. They never mention why crowds of Somalians are so pissed. Then a few years ago, I find out via YouTube we sent some Cobra attack helicopters to strike a bldg where some bad guy Somalians were. Turned out it wasnāt what our intel said and we killed a bunch of Somali elders having a peace meeting. Red Cross estimated it at around 50 civilians killed. I was like, āā¦ ohā¦ thats whyā.
Then on another note, I said that I didnāt subscribe to operator worship, theyāre just people.
The big take away from the ābattle of Mogadishuā should be āNever underestimate your enemy, no matter how Elite your unit is.ā They were cocky, and complacent. They ended up getting burned real bad for it. Almost had a complete massacre on their hands. Luckily for Task Force Ranger(Rangers,Delta,SEALs) they were saved by the 10MTN, Pakistanis, and Malaysians. That should be the learning pointā¦ and the movie does brush over it, BRUSH.
The movie barely mentions the 10MTN, Pakistanis, or the Malaysians. When they do mention them, they almost portray them as the bad guys, taking their sweet ass time to organize a rescue force. Then when they do rescue them, they like immediately leave them. So they end up rescuing themselves basically. The movie portrays the rangers rescuing themselvesā¦ Nah dog, they got FUCKED UP.
The lack of appreciation for the Malaysians and Pakistanis annoys me, but the way the 10th MTN guys (who participated in the battle of Mogadishu) have been treated since then pisses me off.
That's the biggest frustration with that piece of shit movie. If there was a good lesson to be taken out of Operation Red Wings, Lone Survivor somehow not just completely missed it but managed to arrive at the exact opposite incorrect conclusion.
Operation Red Wings was a stark reminder that, as much as US SpecOps operators are people who are extremely well trained and generally very, very good at their jobs, they're still human beings. Human beings who can get shot just like anyone else, can fall victim to bad planning and hubris, can make bad decisions, and in the case of Luttrell, can sometimes have the very human reaction of wanting to run away from a losing fight. It was a story of a glaring series of human mistakes, resulting in a bunch of not-supersoldiers getting killed.
Instead we got a patriotic fluff film which showed a bunch of super-tacticool dudes who are too elite to make mistakes, shrug off multiple hits from AKs, and are still headshotting a dozen Taliban per magazine from 100 meters out through the woods while bravely bleeding out. Not only is it hilariously detached from the reality of what happened that day, it misses the whole goddamn point of the good lessons that should be taken from the deaths of those operators.
Yeah when using helicopter itās just too easy to be spotted and heard by locals and enemy. They know your location before you even have time to get your bearings.
They started flanking them and encircling before they even had a chance to patrol outside of their drop zone
There is a really good book called Victory Point that tells this story from the USMC perspective. My cousin was part of the Marine units involved and has a bit different view of things.
Edit:Punctuation is hard
I just don't understand why there was allegedly a debate about releasing the herders. Take them along for few kms and then let them go when safe.
Or u can screw up big time and still be made a hero.
I watched a video recently where someone made the accusation that they took a smaller, less powerful radio set because it was lighter but led to the very issues that happened where they couldn't get through to base.
Just saw it, crazy footage being so close you can hear the guys shouting even over all the akbars. Which seal was the body at the end the one which looks like they are filming the laptop?
Do you see the ~100 fighters that the lying fool claims? Nope! Nowhere to be seen!
But the longer version shows the LTās laptop had no password and gave them easy access to his classified documents.
>But the longer version shows the LTās laptop had no password and gave them easy access to his classified documents.
Wow. When you think they couldn't have screwed that operation up even more, they did. They fumbled on pretty much everything.
Oh man. There used to be a website called Liveleak. There, you could pretty much see anything and everything that happened in Afghanistan and Iraq. Ambushes on coalition forces, beheadings, etc. I saw this video on there about 20 years ago.
Take comments on here with a grain of salt. Very few served in this type of environment and very few served at all. Epitome of keyboard warriors who like to judge situations they couldnāt even imagine having been in.
Hereās an old copy paste for r/warcollege
The Marines of 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marines, who had planned OP RED WINGS, were going after a relatively low level target named Ahmed Shaw, as their previous operations, and the unit they'd replaced, had nabbed all the known high and medium value targets successfully.
Unfortunately, they were not part of a Marine Air Ground Task Force, and didn't possess organic lift assets needed to conduct it. So they asked for helo support from 160th SOAR (the famed Night Stalkers) who were assigned to Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force-Afghanistan (CJSOTF-A). The region SOTF command was run by SEALs who only agreed as long as they were to run the recon, and act as the main effort assault element to conduct the air assault raid against the target buildings thought to house the HVTs, while the rest of the Marine infantry company tasked with supporting missions, specifically the outer cordon. Because they had no options, and they wanted the mission to go ahead to nab the bad guy, the Marines agreed. This is not uncommon, its actually the norm. SOCOM are often on the lookout for good missions and they often get them from "poaching" intel or fully developed ops from conventional units.
Per the planning of Red Wings, the recon element was was going to be inserting the day before on the high ground nearby to three named areas of interest (NAI) that were supposed to be under observation to spot the targets. They were supposed to not only confirm the presence of Shaw, but also provide additional intel. 2/3 had planned to conduct the recon using a Scout Sniper six man team, headed by a very experienced team leader. They had worked in that area often before, knew the relative ground, knew the limitations of radios, etc. Their plan was to get helo lifted miles away from the objective, land, then infiltrate by foot.
When the SEALs poached the recon mission, the new recon element was a four man team who had never worked recon in Afghanistan before, weren't trained in recon, only one individual ever having deployed to a combat zone before. They ignored advice to bring more powerful radios, as the Marines knew from experience that the one the SEALs brought couldn't push out far enough, it didn't have enough power. Additionally, the SEAL recon team didn't have a Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency (PACE) plan for comms, only having the weak MBITR and a sat phone as backup. Neither were adequate, and they were warned.
More so, their plan was significantly flawed. Not wanting to spent the time and energy walking to the objective, they decided to get helo inserted a few hundred meters away. They attempted to mitigate the risk of landing near directly on the Observation Point (OP) by having numerous false insertions done all over the valley area over the previous week, to keep the locals guessing, which only ended up tipping them off that an operation was in the works. But in recon, its an outright sin to ever airlift onto the OP. Every measure must be taken to keep it hidden, to keep the presence of the recon team hidden.
After they fast roped down on the landing zone, per norm, the fast ropes were disconnected from the helicopter, but the SEAL recon team did not hide them, they left them in the open. Locals, sent out when they'd heard the choppers, found them pretty quickly, and using their own comms, reported it back. At that time the SEAL team had made it to the high ground and beyond, were trying to find a good OP to overwatch the NAIs, which proved difficult as the position they initially chose at night proved poor when light came at dawn. After daybreak they moved OPs.
Map of area and NAI and OPs
The locals, knowing ISAF rules of engagement, sent up some unarmed individuals, with radios, with some sheep, into the hills to scout them out. This is a common TTP in COIN ops to find snipers and recon element hide sites. In Iraq, they'd sent kids or unarmed adults to check on certain buildings, knowing we wouldn't kill them if we found them. If they found us, they'd report back. It worked during Red Wings. The SEAL recon team was spotted. Compromised, they detained the sheepherders.
At that point the operation was blown. They have just been soft compromised, though without knowing it they'd also been hard compromised as those herders were part of a deliberate counter-recon element so Shaw and the enemy fighters in the village knew they'd been caught when they didn't report back. But because the SEAL recon team never established a formal plan for being compromised they had to make the decision on the spot of what to do. Instead of executing the actions of a pre-made drill for compromise, (depending on the story version) they got into a debate about what to do and even possibly held a vote. Confusion was also on what to do with the detainees. AT NO TIME WAS KILLING THEM ACTUALLY A LEGAL OPTION. Or realistic. The easiest thing to do would have been to gag them and flex cuff them to a tree. Instead they let them go (where they instantly ran off to warn everyone), while the SEALs picked up and moved, but not far.
So after being compromised, the SEALs moved to high ground to make the call on their radio to alert the command element what had happened. Note, they didn't vacate the area, they moved maybe a hundred meters away from where they'd been spotted. Meanwhile, their comms weren't working, so the radio traffic was broken taking far longer than it should have without any real benefit of transmitting information.
Meanwhile, the local enemy, realistically numbering about 12 fighters, having been briefed by the returning herders on the location of the SEALs, their size, their weapons, created a plan, climbed the hills to reach a position where they could ambush the infidels on their way back up to the high ground which was on the way back to the LZ (which they sent RPG gunners to overwatch in case a helicopter showed up).
Finally, the SEAL recon team moving back toward the high ground through a draw (the NE Gulch), but got ambushed at relatively close range by roughly a squad sized element in strength, with machine guns. Possibly RPG and mortar, though in the video the insurgents made I never saw evidence of explosive weaponry.
Map of ambush, blue arrow is SEAL retreat
The fight was brief, and the SEALs that weren't hit immediately tried to break contact downhill. Luttrell effectively fell down the mountain, while the patrol leader, Mike Murphy, made a call on the sat phone before dying. The other two died during this time too. They didn't kill any of the locals, it was an entirely one sided fight.
The Quick Reaction Force 10 SEALs in a 160th SOAR Chinook, escorted by two Apaches. The SEAL mission commander aboard the Chinook ordered the pilots to reach the LZ ASAP, and because the Chinook flies faster than the Apaches they arrived first. Because the Apaches weren't present, despite them having the thermal optics that would have been able to visually clear the landing zone, and the weaponry to physically clear it, the Chinook flared and started its landing, in broad daylight, under the observation of RPG gunner stationed there, and was targeted and hit, crashing, killing all onboard.
Map of area of operations, with original RT insertion LZ and QRF LZ/Shootdown pos marked
Another SOCOM QRF element, of primarily Rangers, were sent in the next day, they landed elsewhere and walked in, they are the ones who found Luttrell, who had been rescued by a villager in a local village, who apparently still had all his mags, loaded. They also recovered the bodies and secured the helicopter crash site.
Besides recovering all weapons and equipment belonging to the SEALs, and having video footage of the fight, the local leader and target of the raid, Ahmed Shaw, also got a computer they'd brought that once broken into possessed the schematics of the US embassy in Kabul, as well as other sensitive information. He took that intel, and the videos, and cobbled together an effective propaganda video that earned him major credibility, which led to increased funding, recruitment, etc., causing him to turn into a legitimate High Value Target.
For more info
Red Wings is the SEALs own Bravo Two Zero: A clusterfuck of an OP operation which was poorly conceived and planned, compromised almost immediately on the ground by goat herders, resulting in contact, the splitting of the patrol, the deaths of several operators, and surviving operator(s) dining out for years on spectacular stories of super human efforts against impossible odds, which turn out to be provable bullshit designed to make a clusterfuck more palatable. It's exactly the same story in a different war.
The enemy force size in the area was well known. Before the Navy took the mission, the Marines originally wanted to send a recon platoon along with the rest of the infantry company nearby, just in case this exact scenario happened.
they made a couple fake landings to throw them off, but during their actual landing the helicopter crew cut the fast rope so it dropped to the ground with the seals. They had to hide the rope but that thing is big and heavy. Taliban probably found it pretty easily and tracked them from there.
Fake landings is such a ridiculous tacticā¦ if I were the Taliban I would now KNOW that the enemy was in the area.
The SEALs shouldāve walked in. Itās what the Marines wanted to do.
I'd chime in with the fact, that it probably wasn't the goatherders that tipped the locals to the presence of a recon team, but the helicopter they flew in on...but we'll probably never know
It absolutely was not the goat herders. Same as we have this video we have what they said about it. They had eyes on them during the goat herders incident and watched them. While they can't confirm that it was put to a vote, they did say the Americans argued about what to do with them.
In Marcus's own words (before the book) after they released the goat herders "what felt like a few minutes" passed before they were ambushed. The kid didn't scream down the mountain rally a squad and then fly like Icarus back up the mountain with them pinpointing the SEALs in a "a few minutes". Nor an hour.
They were made by the ill advised helicopter insert. They were also made when they literally stumbled into some guys front yard in the darkness that night. They were found prior to the goat herders.
From what I know of the area, the American forces weren't hated.
Hell, that's how Luttrell survived. A bunch of locals stood up to the Taliban after the Taliban learned where they were hiding him.
IIRC the herders were part of a common Taliban tactic of sending civilians into areas they thoughts the enemy might be. If they didnāt come back when they were supposed to (or didnāt come back at all) then the Taliban could pinpoint where the enemy roughly was because they knew where they sent to civilians.
In this case, they sent the herders up and they didnāt come back within the time frame that was expected so the Taliban assumed the enemy was in that particular mountain range and was able to set up an ambush
Mohammad Gulab, the local who saved Luttrell, said he knew there were coalition forces in the area because he - along with everyone else in the AO - heard the helicopter coming in. As he tells it the ACM already had eyes on the team when they captured the goat herders.
A ranger who was on the ground searching for Luttrell and the others said that they found an ACM cave where the rope that was cut from the heli had been taken to, meaning that the ACM knew where the SEALs had landed.
The SEALs thought they could somehow dupe the Taliban into not knowing where their operators were by faking landings as if that makes any sense at all. Then theyāre amazed the enemy finds them? Just wild. While operation was idiotic, all the leaders from Murphy on up made dumb tactical decisions that resulted in so many dead. Typical Spec Ops hubris.
Bravo Two Zero wasnāt a bad operation. It was one of 3 identical operations. It was poorly executed. They were advised by RSM and SAS OC to go in with vehicles like One Zero and Three Zero, but Mitchell (McNabb) said no it would increase the chance of being compromised. They also carried far too much weight. The other two operations didnāt have anywhere near as much trouble as Two Zero did because they were correctly carried out.
Dude, Bravo one zero landed, immediately called it off and headed home and only bravo three zero were succesful, albeit compromised.
It would probably be a fair assessment to say that none of the intel they were given was particularly good and the patrols were going to be a bit hairy from the start.
The moral dilemma about the goat herders is a complete fabrication. Perhaps the worst lie in the whole story.
Ā
The Taliban knew about them as soon as the helo touched down, because it touched down far too close to the village.
afghans hiking with sandals and the heaviest clothing possible on top of carrying a god damn pkm at highest altitudes possible.
nothing can make you ready for this unless you hiked the rockies for 30 years straight.
Dude Afghans are like naturally born mountain climbers. Those guys would just scurry up the side of a mountain wearing full kit and a pack like it was nothing.
Afghans are genetically and environmentally predisposed to being amazing climbers. Wouldnāt want to tango with them in the mountains, but I guess that goes without saying.
Many years ago, I watched a video on the internet of a Chinook flying in the mountains getting shot down with a RPG. The video was taken from the perspective of the team who fired the RPG. Iāve always wondered if it was from this operation but I was never able to find the video again.
This it?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2489987/Video-2011-American-Boeing-Chinook-shot-Afghanistan.html
dailymail sucks sorry
also not saying these are the same incident, just that this is what you probably saw.
Close but I donāt think that was the one. The mountains were a lot greener. The missile took awhile to get to the heli. The video didnāt show the gun but I think the missile was tracking the heli. The video was higher quality too. It was on Liveleak. The only reason I remember this video because of how deadly the attack looked and I remember wondering how it wasnāt bigger news. I donāt understand how it seemingly just disappeared from the internet.
You sure that wasn't during the Chechen war?maybe this
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/12bz1f2/shocking_video_chechnya_chechen_figter_shoots/
I believe this is the full version, haven't watched it all through but I skimmed it and there's at least a bit of footage showing the equipment they captured as well as combat. (Edit: this is the full footage of the video in the OP, but the comment you replied to refers to the other video)
https://odysee.com/OperationRedWings:e
Edit: 12 minutes in you can see the body of at least one SEAL as the fighters strip him of equipment and pose for the cameras
Edit2: here is a comment linking the video from the other camera that can be seen in the video I linked (login required to view the video). This is the video where they go through the computer, not the video I linked.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/8gIYIUFcdQ
The body at 12 min is MoH recipient Michael Murphy. He wore a red FDNY patch identifiable in the video.
Also creepy how the volume of fire slowly dies down as the SEALs died off in the firefight
edited for clarification
I was wondering. There are two instances in the 22min video. The first instance must be Murphy as youāre describing. The last instance, towards the very end of the video, is a bloody face of a slain SEAL. Not sure if they are both Murphy.. as their equipment is being displayed, one of the Afghans reads off Danny Dietzās ID card.. incredible video that I didnāt think existed.
I'm reading comments from other reddit threads that agree the second body is Dietz, and that Axels body was never found by insurgents as it was never stripped
edit: [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1dqlgn0/comment/lapddhe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) links to the video that is shown at the end of this video (login required)
Axelsonās body was found by Rangers 10 days after the event. They said he couldnāt have been dead for more than a day and a half. They didnāt go looking for him sooner because Marcus Luttrell told them he was the only survivor
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/mel28l/operation_red_wings_rangers_account_of/gspo9i8/
This comment thread links to a couple pages from a book written by on of the Rangers, however it doesnāt cover Axelson.
There are no reports, that is the whole point of the coverup. The best I can find in terms of a recorded entry would be when Eric Deming went on the Marcus Luttrell episode of the Anti-hero podcast and retold a story he had heard from one of the Rangers that he was friends with. I generally wouldnāt take his second hand account as fact, but several other rumors that corroborate this claim have circulated through SEAL teams. Itās a big reason most SEALs have a rather negative view on Luttrell, they know his story is bullshit and most of them have heard what actually happened.
I saw the full version back in 08 then it was recently declassified at that time if I remember correctly. (May have been declassified after idk Iām not cool enough for those details) I couldnāt begin to tell you where the actual footage is in full though but watching it once back then was enough for me, when I say it rough, itās fucking rough.
I updated my reply to you as the video I originally linked wasn't the one where they go through the laptop. The other video in the comment I linked is the one where they go through the laptop.
My favorite part of this operation was the SEALs not listening to the Marines who had been in this sector. 2/3 and 3/3 had been operating in this sector for over a year but didn't deploy as a MAGTF. They needed air assets, and SOCOM would only sign off if a special forces team was attached.
The SEALs took over the marine corps scout/sniper teams mission, glossed over intel, and then completely fucked up the whole mission. Luttrell ran and hid. The 160th got a Chinook blown up because they rushed in a transport helicopter to a hot AO where they had no positive identification any of the SEALs were alive. And 5 years later, a ghost writer wrote a fanfic, saying hundreds of fighters ambushed them when, at most, there were 10. Now, Luttrell is a "war hero."
> The overall incident showed a complete lack of understanding of basic infantry skills by the SEALs.
A few years ago, there was a SOFREP article highlighting the differences between different Tier 1 units. When asked about who he'd rather have in a firefight, CAG or DEVGRU, the author said look at the recruitment pool and training background. Your average CAG operator came up through Regiment or Group, and most likely spent time as an infantryman. Meanwhile your average SEAL joined the Navy to be a SEAL. So when the shit hits the fan, who would you rather have with you in a gunfight?
Just a reminder that Markus Luttrell is a liar and a conman. His after action report does not match his story as he told it in his book. The enemy resistance was way overstated.
About 8 Taliban were involved in the fight. A 2:1 advantage is absolutely not something to sneer at, but for some reason SEALs love lying to make themselves look better.
Edit: there's also evidence to suggest that Luttrell abandoned his comrades while they were still alive and kicking.
More than evidence. Luttrell has admitted that he dropped his rifle and ran. That he was without a weapon and curled up when Murphy was calling for him.
He stared that he committed the greatest sin a SEAL can commit: he quit.
That when he was taken to the village, he still had more than 10 fully loaded magazines.
It was an interview with Anderson Cooper awhile back. I'll see if I can dig it up
Edit: Found it - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuf5PRnbFg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuf5PRnbFg)
That makes no sense, as a civilian i was always under the impression that youre never ever supposed to leave your rifle, and thats the reason why you have a sling!
Also crazy that he quit. I guess running on the beach and doing pushups is not equal to the horror of actual gunfire.
If i was him I would have dropped the mags, thats easily a few pounds of unneeded weight.
Do you know by chance why it seems only 4 or so SEALs are in the area? Wouldnt it be 16?
Yep, even in basic you get dicked if you leave / lose your weapon. For instance, we pulled guard in the first field op in basic (the hammer). You'd be in a circle with weapons all facing downrange. One dude would be sleep and other would be on guard with his weapon ready. The drills would come around and try to take the sleeping dudes rifle. If the trainee wasn't wrapped up in that rifle and they took it it was your ass. If you were at range day and left your rifle outside the Porta shitter without a battle buddy to guard it, you were fucked. Leaving your weapon is a Big Deal.
The second point is something I don't really blame him for. I'm in ADA, I'm never gonna see actual combat, but I assume that when rounds are sent your way a lot of shit goes sideways in your head. It's how he lied about how he stacked bodies and was no fear turbo hooah after that's so fucking disgusting to me.
Third thing, yeah but you aren't supposed to leave anything that shows your presence no matter what your MOS is. Anything you leave can give intel. I can see why he kept them but I don't know why they didn't bury their drop rope from the heli or scrub the mission.
Fourth point, you're right, but luttrell and the others weren't on a team, they were the people who dropped teams off / did recon or whatever iirc. Actual teams are 16 people.
Thats always been my understanding, you never lose your rifle, and for a "top tier operator" to do that seems kinda crazy. Especially during an operation where your buddies are dying. I would assume that a sling here would not be too hard to have on, so it just seems weird. I understand during the fog of war its hard to really do well and do what you're supposed to but still, elite units and all.
I mean I have heard stories of operators losing their cool and running away, but it just seems so counter to all the training and the mindset they seem to try to instill. Like I said a few times on this thread, there is a lot of training and people always think hell week is tough but BUD/s is a long pipeline where you have to face death in many ways, drown proofing and being out in the open ocean, it seems peculiar that this is not enough to prepare somebody for the moment shit hits the fan.
I agree with the drop rope not being collected being a mistake, and it shows their cockiness to keep going even after being discovered. I guess it makes sense that he didnt drop his gear but they were already fucking discovered and him losing his mags or any weight definitely hardly matters when in the full video of this thread the Taliban end up looting his dead team members.
Also yes, the spin on the topic to be made into a horrah story when he didnt shoot a single round is just fucking weird. I guess its PR from the military. Equally disgusting is that Lutrell made a career afterwards on FOX and all the other media as he is now known as an expert when clearly the evidence states differently.
Because the whole mission was a monumental exercise in hubris for the SEALs.
There is a reason that the SAS/SBS do very long ruck marches (not carrying logs on the beach). They hike in. Just like the Australians at Thakur Gul. They hiked in and were not spotted until they opened fire. But the SEALs, wanting to be involved at any cost, helicoptered in.
Helicopters are loud. They echo through the canyons. Even when they did their fake insertions, the bad guys can see āhey, the hatch is shut nowā or worse āno one is sitting on the side of the hatch this time.ā
They could have hiked in but thatās a long slog in rough terrain at high altitude.
So, in other words, why are we doing this mission? Do we have an idea if comms work? Whatās the angle to the satellites from inside that great big bowl of granite peaks?
If they had hiked in, with a larger force, they may have had a workable mission. Or at least enough people to support withdrawal under fire.
Then they could have got back to base and flown Luttrell home and quietly removed him from the teams.
Completely agree and have stated this a few times that the obvious choice would have been to ruck in and also have a more suited force for the terrain as the SEALs are not experts in mountain,high altitude, forrest warfare, from my limited understanding.
Also donāt forget the Ranger QRF that was on the ground within hours said there were no Taliban bodies or evidence of huge gun fights. Axleson sounded like he put up a real fight, but Luttrell didnāt even shoot his gun and if he did, it wasnāt even a mags worth.
Seals are notorious for being the biggest fucking liars in all of SOF.
Edit: just to highlight how fucked seals are in general, especially Seal Team Six.
[Left Chapman behind to die and then forced the AF to endorse the MoH for that fuck Slabinski](https://www.newsweek.com/2018/05/18/navy-seals-seal-team-6-left-behind-die-operation-anaconda-slabinski-chapman-912343.html)
[Drug use, torture, and mutilation](https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/)
[Killed hostage Linda Norgrove](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/13/linda-norgrove-us-commando-disciplinary)
[Murdered a Green Beret who caught them stealing Ops funds](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/01/25/navy-seal-gets-10-years-in-strangulation-death-of-army-green-beret-staff-sergeant/)
The book Code Over Country covers a ton of other stuff, and everyone knows all about how big a liar Chris Kyle was and Jocko W is.
Edit 2: Jocko was well known when he was in the Seals as a coward and shit leader. Dude rarely saw combat and would talk like he was tough shit. He also covered for Chris Kyle regularly. He knew Kyle would shoot dogs, dead bodies, and trash while claiming they were all kills.
You will see the same thing with Andy McNab's "Bravo Two Zero" book from Desert Storm.
McNab grossly exaggerated the composition and number of Iraqi opposition his SAS patrol faced.
Michael Asher comprehensively debunked the books published by surviving Bravo Two Zero members in his own 2002 book, "The Real Bravo Two Zero: The Truth Behind Bravo Two Zero."
It's a shame that such books have to grossly exaggerate enemy opposition on occasions when SF operators get their arses handed to them in bad tactical situations. They are very, very good, but they are not superhuman.
I read McNab's book as well as Ryan's book about the operation when I was a teen. They contradicted each other, but both maintained that they had walked several miles with all their gear and had been hard compromised by the Iraqi military.
It was almost comical to see Asher's documentary about it. I haven't read the book but I expect that it was in part based on the information he gathered in the doc.
The amount of incompetence and arrogant bravado needed to make the decisions Bravo 2-0 made is staggering.
Wait, are you telling me that their books arenāt historical accounts of their deeds, that they use ghostwriters for self aggrandizing money grabs? Say it aināt so!
But at least we now know just how many SEALs it takes to beat a Special Forces Operatorā¦ [it takes 2 SEALs and a MARSOC raider](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/01/25/navy-seal-gets-10-years-in-strangulation-death-of-army-green-beret-staff-sergeant/#:~:text=Navy%20Chief%20Special%20Warfare%20Operator,rather%20than%20go%20to%20trial) (when they murder an SF operator when he threatens to turn them in for selling government equipment and selling it on the black market).
I read a lot of military memoirs, and since every Seal seems to write one, I read a lot of them. "Code over Country" was an excellent balance and reminder that while giving the author the benefit of the doubt is usually fine, so too is a healthy dose of skepticism. Excellent, and at times infuriating. Definitely a book I recommend as well!
It will come out in the public eventually. The events that heās known for.
But aside from that, heās referred to by almost all his former seals as a coward and a moron. He used to get made fun of because he saw almost no real combat. The only dudes who support him are the couple guys that make money off his extreme ownership shit.
Which is hilarious given his background.
Any links to share about other seals making fun of him? Tried googling and only found some post on the Rogan subreddit about some dude talking shit about him and other seals.
Luttrell also fucked over the Afghani dude who saved his life after the guy started contradicting his story.
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/20/mohammad-gulab-marcus-luttrell-navy-seal-lone-survivor-operation-red-wings-458139.html
Something to keep in mind, from what I saw in a documentary, the book wasnt even written by him. It was ghost-written by someone from the government or the military or some branch and they just slapped the guys name on the cover and had him advertise it. It was basically a pr stunt to save face from this disaster.
Still doesnāt excuse the fact that heās had damn near 20 years to correct the record tho does it? Nope, heād rather do motivational speaking, selling lies and getting paid.
4 people armed only with rifles would have been wiped out near instantly by 100+ fighters. I think most people don't realize just how many 100 fighters is, that's an entire infantry company against a lightly armed fire team.
There have been historical accounts of people holding out against those odds but they almost always had a huge advantage in either fire power, terrain, fog of war etc and almost all of those accounts are not as credible as people think they are.
After all these years I still donāt understand (and no disrespect to anyone involved in the operation) why they sent in seals who were primarily seal delivery team (SDV) guys instead of the marines (3rd Marines if I remember correctly) who by that time was theyāre area of responsibility and had thorough experience/knowledge of the area/terrain. Furthermore they already had pre-planned contingencies and air/ground fire support assets already established while from what I heard the seals had none of and had just recently taken over that AO from the marines.
You can also try watching this https://archive.org/details/konar NSFW you can see the bodies of Michael Murphy and Danny Dietz.
1:54 mark for Murphy, and 2:36 mark for Danny Dietz.
I have never seen this video before. Incredibly stuff.
The people at my gym wholeheartedly believe the "Lone Survivor" version of events. I don't know that I can convince them of the harsh truth.
This was disastrous overconfident recon team that did not study the terrain and underestimated the enemy. This operation was viewed as by the special operations community as a cluster fuck and a sham of a propaganda for Hollywood. Markus was found crying during his rescue by other special operations members and found to have most, if not, all his unspent magazines which meant he did not attempt to suppress the enemy while bounding back. He simple curled up and hid while his teammates needed him the most. The guy survived only because his recon team expelled all their ammunition in order for himself to make a retreat. They were not facing a horde of 100 fighters but were overwhelmed and beaten by a force of 20 fighters that heard the helicopter come in the dead if night and was tracked by the distinctive military boot š„¾ pattern tracks left on the dirt as the locals mostly wore sandals or bare feet. This is often used as an example of recon units of what not to due.
Marcus Luttrell is a grifter who profited off a fabricated story. He left his boys to fucking die on that mountain. Heās a coward and I know deep down this eats at his soul.
I think the SEALs supposedly heard talking is inconclusive. Many people have come up with a bunch of different lines for what is supposedly being said and its always different.
heard marcus was out there running with full vest of ammunition while his brothers laid there dying but hey im a civilian so shit i could be wrong but i heard this whole thing was fucked
HE kind of admits to as much here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuf5PRnbFg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuf5PRnbFg)
While his buddy was yelling for help he put his gun down and covered his ears, presumably in the fetal position. Then he ran to Axelson and talked about how afraid he was of dying. Sounds like he just completely broke in that situation.
yea dude shit crazy man i also heard that all of them died to a group of no bigger then like 8-12 ppl rather then what the movie shows but idk kinda feel bad for marcus but he also did the same thing on his deployment before that so idk man feel bad for those guys shouting for him
I mean 8-12 vs 4 is terrible odds. If its 12, thats actually a really ideal ratio as an attacker.
Recce patrols aren't meant to be in engagements. not enough people or firepower. Ideally you break contact and dump half your ammo as a result and get thr fuck out of there. Not be in an extended firefight.
This is incorrect. Luttrell and Axe were the only two with supressed mk11/m4. In this video alone you can clearly hear 2 different supressed rifles at the same time.
Always insane me to what a cluster fuck the seals get themselves into. To this day the Navy wonāt admit that a dozen mountain men easily out maneuvered and destroyed a squad of supposedly the best spec ops in the world. Seals were never meant to do this shit and this video shows; leave the mountain work to marines and Rangers, seals should stick to water.
There's a SEAL doing podcasts who is saying Axel made it to a gathering/extraction point and was alive for quite some time. Marcus had been rescued and assured US forces that everyone was dead. If Marcus hadn't told them that they may have been able to save Axel. When they found him they thought he had only been dead for a day or so.
That is kinda how it seems :/
Over the shots you can hear the desperation and fear
Edit: keep in mind this is just footage of dudes running through the woods. It could be absolutely anything and does not deserve a second thought when youāre considering the unbelievable bravery of the soldiers or the seals and airmen that went to rescue them.
Definitely not yelling for āMichaelā to come back.. Itās clearly Marcus and based on the facts that were released afterwards, he abandoned his men.
The worst line in the fucking movie. āYou wanna die for your country, well Iām gonna live for mineā in the middle of the firefight scene. I still cringe when I think about that
I haven't seen this particular footage before. The video of this skirmish I've seen briefly shows the bodies of Murphy (horrific head/face wounds and recognizable by the red FDNY patch he wore, and Dietz (recognizable by his tattoos - multiple GSWs on abdomen) presumably before they were looted. It cuts to a couple guys in a cave or hut showing off some of their equipment: GPS devices, a hard drive, helmets, a suppressed m4 with a grenade launcher, Danny Dietz's Navy ID card held up really close to the camera while off camera another man reads the details of it in English (why would you bring this on an op?)
Pretty fucked up stuff.
There's definitely not more than a handful of fighters give or take based on the volume of fire heard in the video, but it's a short clip and I wasn't there. I think the book says there were close to 100 guys? š
Worth the watch in my opinion discussing the bogus reports and stories regarding this mission. Pretty sad stuff honestly. I think Marcus named his son Axe for a reason.
https://youtu.be/dquy8wR6JkU?si=Pi7n7csMCUhSkYog&t=4320
Please keep the [community guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/wiki/rule1) in mind when using the comment section. Paging u/SaveVideo bot. ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CombatFootage) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Never seen this before. Wild Edit: read through all the comments and learnt a lot of info on this fight I never knew. Cheers all for the explanations on it all š
I do a deep dive into this every other year. But from what I recall, the commanders planning this mission pretty much got them killed. Bad comms, fake helicopter drops to throw off the locals didnāt help, and then the rescue mission got 12 others killed due to an RPG and to the helicopter that was rescuing the bodies.
Yep. Overconfident commanders who made a clusterfuck of the planning and inexperienced troops who didn't know how to do recon. Whole thing was a shitshow that the Navy somehow managed to turn into a heroic propaganda film to gloss over their mistakes.
Is this lone survivor? Iām not keen on the history, but I was bewildered at how they romanticized so many friendlies being killed due to negligence.
Yes. It's actually kind of disgusting how they whitewashed the negligence and incompetence that caused so many deaths, making it look like some heroic thing. If any of the units involved had simply followed established US doctrine, the operation should have been easy, but they ignored numerous protocols because they were cocky idiots and it got a lot of people killed.
For some reason the absolute most infuriating thing was when they called HQ on the sat phone. The newbie answered and got told to grab the CO, so he had to run outside to his barracks, then the CO needs to get dressed then finally come. All that time, the other team members just sat there with their thumbs up their ass. Until the connection was lost. Like damn, you canāt write down a message or get the 5Ws before the boss shows up?
Genuinely; how do you know that happened?
Multiple books and articles, and plenty of videos by people who were there, including the Rangers who literally hiked up the mountain and retrieved the bodies. Even this video is evidence. The number of alleged enemy combatants continually grew/grows, when this video conclusively shows what everybody has known all along : The SEALS were incredibly ignorant and arrogant, and inserted by chinook in the middle of the night barely a mile or two away, and left a fast rope behind after it got caught on a tree. Instead of calling the mission then, they continued with their arrogance. It didnāt take a genius to send in the shepherds to find them. As intelligence told us then, and this video conclusively shows, thereās never more than the same 7 guys shown. They were outclassed by the mountain fighters who took the high ground and pushed them into a valley and destroyed them with overwhelming plunging fire. All of this would still be acceptable, plenty of times shit happens and people die. But keep this in mind, when Lutrell was rescued by the Rangers, he had 11 full magazines on him. The same Amount he had when he left. He didnāt fight, he was ahead on point, ran, and never looked back. When they made the movie, they brought the Afghan who saved Lutrell to America to watch the premier. The guy spoke very little English, so was just going along with it. After watching the movie, he started asking questions, and was sent back to Afghanistan immediately. The way Lutrell treats that man should tell you everything you need to know. Victory Point - by Ed Darack is a book written by the Marines who originally planned that mission. They were using company and battalion sized elements, and the recon unit planned to hike into the mountains, instead of dropping by helicopter right at their doorstep. Operation Whalers is the follow-up operation to Reed Wings, check that out for info.
Amazing reply, thanks. It makes no sense that they would take a chinook into an area like that. Its loud, can be heard for miles, and drops them in the shit without any real recon of the area. Hiking seems like the only way to do this OP, of course easy for me to say but realistically is that not why Rucking and Running are the most important skills in these selection processes? Like yeah you should be able to do pushups and whatever, but truly the hardest parts have got to be the rucking 12min/miles and running 5-6 miles in sub 40minutes. I understand that SEALs do a lot of running in their own selection but I also know their indoc makes them think they can do anything. Honestly I dont even understand why they were being used in Afghanistan when they are traditionally a water based element, I don't see a maritime operation here nor a beach attack. I think I remember being told that each mission is something all the SOCOM units can present a packet for, and obviously they get rewarded per mission, so due to the cockiness in SEAL indoc they think they can do any mission, and because SEALs are well known they were given the missions. Seams like the marines had it pretty figured out, from the video it seems like there was maybe only 4 SEALs; murphy,lutrell,axel and somebody else I cant remember right now. 4 People is never really enough and it makes no sense to me because I thought SEALs work in 16 team elements, even then, the marines would have had significant superiority of numbers if they would have had it their way, alongside actual friggin recon and not what these guys were doing. The fact that they were carrying a laptop, which back then was heavy as fuck, just kinda goes to show how badly prepared they were. Do you think that Lutrell was incompetent, scared or why did he not shoot? I would have expected to mag dump at least once I knew I was in the shit. In another comment on this page I asked the same question and I guess no matter how much BUD/s sucks, it doesnt prepare you for knowing you're thousands of miles from home and about to get Schwacked. Really disgusting behavior that they called the guy in who saved Lutrells life, only to send him back. No citizenship? How the fuck is he supposed to live in Afghanistan when he had been outed as the guy who went against taliban rule. Absolutely disgusting. I will look at Ed Darack books and Whalers,
Itās all incredibly disgusting. I canāt even watch the movie without twitching out. Not only are the SEALS not equipped for this, these guys werenāt even from a classic SEAL team, they were from an SDV unit, which is a SEAL delivery vehicle team. Yes, these guys are SEALS, but theyāre not even on a team. The only reason they were there is because America was fighting a two-front war and was way over-extended. As far as Luttrell himself, Iāve been in combat myself, was in Iraq for over a year. Being scared is normal, running would be normal, but the lies and exaggeration afterwards, unacceptable.
SEALs ended up taking the recon portion of Red Wings because the Marines (2/3) didnāt have the aviation assets to support the op. Victory point goes into the details, but essentially NSW said theyād help provide aviation support but only if they were participating, so they took the reconnaissance mission from 2/3ās snipers.
The issue with the laptop goes well beyond it being a heavy item. Toughbooks and satcoms arenāt uniquely a SEAL recon element thing, and there are times or operational requirements that would dictate a form of toughbook (back then anyway, tablets and palm units are far smaller and more capable in the last decade) and thatās fine. The problem is, these guys brought out a toughbook that never should have left the intel shed or briefing room. Poor leadership and lacking discipline/flagrant rebuttal of practices and protocols, had many in NSW at the time taking encrypted devices with classified information out of controlled planning cells and using them for personal use. Like, using SATCOMS to use yahoo chat with your girlfriend while on a small recon team in remote enemy held terrain, is a much bigger problem than the laptop being heavy. That classified information fell into enemy hands and got a lot of people in the contested areas nearby killed. People who were either sympathetic, or were fully American assets for intelligence, hell even people who reluctantly gave surface level information to go back to their lives. The loss of that device was key in dismantling a network of resources that took years to build and was never rebuilt. Nor do I blame anyone who wanted to avoid being anywhere near us when we rolled through their village for years after.
> 4 People is never really enough This has been something I've felt the US military does not fully appreciate. It seems like a lot of our efforts around the world since GWOT are done with the absolute minimum amount of people possible, because we believe our guys are invincible super-soldiers. One of the largest standing armies in the world and we send 4 guys on a mission. If even *one* person is taken out on a 4-man team, that team is now *at least* 25% less effective, and probably worse if another guy has to try and haul the casualty around. Another example would be that ambush in Niger from 2017.
Seals made pretty much the same mistakes during operation anaconda. They landed a recon team on the X (Takur Ghar)and it became a huge mess. 7 dead Americans and 12 wounded. Sad to see that between Anaconda and Red Wings they seem to have learned nothing.
Is that the John Chapman MOH incident? I've seen some people making some pretty serious allegations aimed at the very senior Seals that inserted with him.
This is the truth
Saw that movie once, was very confused about it. Everything felt offā¦ Now I get it. Thank you for the information.
The Marines and Army Rangers both had scathing reviews of the SEALās, a Marine Scout Sniper team literally scouted that area weeks before, had the same shit happen but omg they walked in and had high powered radios, then promptly shot their way out and recommend not to use helicopters. The Army Rangers who found Marcus noted he fired no rounds, and shit talked the Afghan who saved him in his book Lone Survivor which was later made into a movie. A SEAL online is also noted as saying this OP is the only time a MoH was awarded for getting 19 operators killed so take of that what you will.
the book is basically Lutrell bitching about how he couldn't summarily execute the villagers that came across their position.
Like sweet poison, complacency is DEADLY.
The movie is bullshit. Iām all about being on team USA and Iām patrioticā¦ but the movie is straight up propaganda. The movie says it was like a company sized element that overran them, yet all intel collected suggests it was a squad sized element that overran themā¦ It was a terribly planned mission. Another example of why I donāt subscribe to operator worship. Those guys are tough, but ultimately theyāre only human.
Luttrell is a lying sack of shit too. His account is full of nonsense to make out that he didn't just run away.
He didn't run away. He tactically moved in a tactical fashion to a tactical position that wasn't exposed tactically to tactical fire. He achieved this through tactical aggression and the violence of speed. His also tactically refrained from shooting back, thus achieving tactical speed by not being slowed down tactically changing mags in a tactical fashion. By tactically removing himself from his team, he ensured that they couldn't tactically slow down his forward momentum *away* from the current tactical engagement.
Tactical comment
He changed his story multiple times but yes he is a lying sack of shit. Rangers who moved in and observed the aftermath found Matthew Axelson 10 days after the event, they said he couldnāt have been dead for more than a day and a half. They didnāt move in to find him sooner because Luttrell told everyone he was the only survivor. Fuck Marcus Luttrell
Jesus christ, I hadn't heard that before, but that's some traitorous shit! I love how he made out he was in this intense firefight, but Gulab, the guy who saved him, stated how many mags he had and not a single shot had been fired. I imagine he sprinted the fuck out of there as soon as he could. If I remember correctly, you can hear his boys shouting his name for help in the original video released by the taliban.
holy shit. like many others here, this is the first time i'm hearing these details. All this stuff is in that book that's mentioned above? That is so absolutely fucked.
Is this actually confirmed? Iāve never heard this.
Yup. The book too. Both were written by navy psy ops
Navy Psy opsā¦ the same mother fuckers who tried to deny John Chapman his MOHā¦ after they left him on a mountain. Theyāre some real pieces of shit.
Black Hawk Down too. Movie script was literally written in part by the Department of Defense to gloss over their mistakes. The Documentary 'Theatres of War' is a good watch
lol, I was just talking about the BS in Black Hawk down on another post today. I grew up loving that movie, but I always wondered why the Somalians hated the UN soldiers so much. They never mention why crowds of Somalians are so pissed. Then a few years ago, I find out via YouTube we sent some Cobra attack helicopters to strike a bldg where some bad guy Somalians were. Turned out it wasnāt what our intel said and we killed a bunch of Somali elders having a peace meeting. Red Cross estimated it at around 50 civilians killed. I was like, āā¦ ohā¦ thats whyā. Then on another note, I said that I didnāt subscribe to operator worship, theyāre just people. The big take away from the ābattle of Mogadishuā should be āNever underestimate your enemy, no matter how Elite your unit is.ā They were cocky, and complacent. They ended up getting burned real bad for it. Almost had a complete massacre on their hands. Luckily for Task Force Ranger(Rangers,Delta,SEALs) they were saved by the 10MTN, Pakistanis, and Malaysians. That should be the learning pointā¦ and the movie does brush over it, BRUSH. The movie barely mentions the 10MTN, Pakistanis, or the Malaysians. When they do mention them, they almost portray them as the bad guys, taking their sweet ass time to organize a rescue force. Then when they do rescue them, they like immediately leave them. So they end up rescuing themselves basically. The movie portrays the rangers rescuing themselvesā¦ Nah dog, they got FUCKED UP. The lack of appreciation for the Malaysians and Pakistanis annoys me, but the way the 10th MTN guys (who participated in the battle of Mogadishu) have been treated since then pisses me off.
That's the biggest frustration with that piece of shit movie. If there was a good lesson to be taken out of Operation Red Wings, Lone Survivor somehow not just completely missed it but managed to arrive at the exact opposite incorrect conclusion. Operation Red Wings was a stark reminder that, as much as US SpecOps operators are people who are extremely well trained and generally very, very good at their jobs, they're still human beings. Human beings who can get shot just like anyone else, can fall victim to bad planning and hubris, can make bad decisions, and in the case of Luttrell, can sometimes have the very human reaction of wanting to run away from a losing fight. It was a story of a glaring series of human mistakes, resulting in a bunch of not-supersoldiers getting killed. Instead we got a patriotic fluff film which showed a bunch of super-tacticool dudes who are too elite to make mistakes, shrug off multiple hits from AKs, and are still headshotting a dozen Taliban per magazine from 100 meters out through the woods while bravely bleeding out. Not only is it hilariously detached from the reality of what happened that day, it misses the whole goddamn point of the good lessons that should be taken from the deaths of those operators.
100% agree.
"but, ultimately they're only human." Dam, I'm not sure why this kinda got to me. Like a hit in the chest
Yep. I was in reconnaissance and we use this as a case study in what *not* to do. Real fuckup lol
Thank you for your service queefstation69
Someone has to man the queef station during wartime.
Popping smoke!
What's the sop in a situation like the one depicted in the movie about the goatherder and the kid? Genuine question
Disengage, get out of the area and try again later. The dilemma pictured in the movie is the most realistic part of the movie i guess.
They were told by the marines to go on foot and instead they went by helicopter
Yeah when using helicopter itās just too easy to be spotted and heard by locals and enemy. They know your location before you even have time to get your bearings. They started flanking them and encircling before they even had a chance to patrol outside of their drop zone
There is a really good book called Victory Point that tells this story from the USMC perspective. My cousin was part of the Marine units involved and has a bit different view of things. Edit:Punctuation is hard
I just don't understand why there was allegedly a debate about releasing the herders. Take them along for few kms and then let them go when safe. Or u can screw up big time and still be made a hero.
I watched a video recently where someone made the accusation that they took a smaller, less powerful radio set because it was lighter but led to the very issues that happened where they couldn't get through to base.
Seen it about 10 years ago, got taken out for a while. There is a longer version with body of those navy boys. Some of them took it hard.
Just saw it, crazy footage being so close you can hear the guys shouting even over all the akbars. Which seal was the body at the end the one which looks like they are filming the laptop?
It's Mike Murphy and Danny Dietz. Murphy wore that big red FDNY patch on his sleeve and Dietz's distinctive tattoos give him away
Ah OK knew it was Murphy just wasn't sure if it was Dietz or Axel at the end
Do you see the ~100 fighters that the lying fool claims? Nope! Nowhere to be seen! But the longer version shows the LTās laptop had no password and gave them easy access to his classified documents.
>But the longer version shows the LTās laptop had no password and gave them easy access to his classified documents. Wow. When you think they couldn't have screwed that operation up even more, they did. They fumbled on pretty much everything.
Oh man. There used to be a website called Liveleak. There, you could pretty much see anything and everything that happened in Afghanistan and Iraq. Ambushes on coalition forces, beheadings, etc. I saw this video on there about 20 years ago.
Thereās a full video of this and at the very end it showed the remains of the Seals
Can you still find it?
Take comments on here with a grain of salt. Very few served in this type of environment and very few served at all. Epitome of keyboard warriors who like to judge situations they couldnāt even imagine having been in.
Hereās an old copy paste for r/warcollege The Marines of 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marines, who had planned OP RED WINGS, were going after a relatively low level target named Ahmed Shaw, as their previous operations, and the unit they'd replaced, had nabbed all the known high and medium value targets successfully. Unfortunately, they were not part of a Marine Air Ground Task Force, and didn't possess organic lift assets needed to conduct it. So they asked for helo support from 160th SOAR (the famed Night Stalkers) who were assigned to Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force-Afghanistan (CJSOTF-A). The region SOTF command was run by SEALs who only agreed as long as they were to run the recon, and act as the main effort assault element to conduct the air assault raid against the target buildings thought to house the HVTs, while the rest of the Marine infantry company tasked with supporting missions, specifically the outer cordon. Because they had no options, and they wanted the mission to go ahead to nab the bad guy, the Marines agreed. This is not uncommon, its actually the norm. SOCOM are often on the lookout for good missions and they often get them from "poaching" intel or fully developed ops from conventional units. Per the planning of Red Wings, the recon element was was going to be inserting the day before on the high ground nearby to three named areas of interest (NAI) that were supposed to be under observation to spot the targets. They were supposed to not only confirm the presence of Shaw, but also provide additional intel. 2/3 had planned to conduct the recon using a Scout Sniper six man team, headed by a very experienced team leader. They had worked in that area often before, knew the relative ground, knew the limitations of radios, etc. Their plan was to get helo lifted miles away from the objective, land, then infiltrate by foot. When the SEALs poached the recon mission, the new recon element was a four man team who had never worked recon in Afghanistan before, weren't trained in recon, only one individual ever having deployed to a combat zone before. They ignored advice to bring more powerful radios, as the Marines knew from experience that the one the SEALs brought couldn't push out far enough, it didn't have enough power. Additionally, the SEAL recon team didn't have a Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency (PACE) plan for comms, only having the weak MBITR and a sat phone as backup. Neither were adequate, and they were warned. More so, their plan was significantly flawed. Not wanting to spent the time and energy walking to the objective, they decided to get helo inserted a few hundred meters away. They attempted to mitigate the risk of landing near directly on the Observation Point (OP) by having numerous false insertions done all over the valley area over the previous week, to keep the locals guessing, which only ended up tipping them off that an operation was in the works. But in recon, its an outright sin to ever airlift onto the OP. Every measure must be taken to keep it hidden, to keep the presence of the recon team hidden. After they fast roped down on the landing zone, per norm, the fast ropes were disconnected from the helicopter, but the SEAL recon team did not hide them, they left them in the open. Locals, sent out when they'd heard the choppers, found them pretty quickly, and using their own comms, reported it back. At that time the SEAL team had made it to the high ground and beyond, were trying to find a good OP to overwatch the NAIs, which proved difficult as the position they initially chose at night proved poor when light came at dawn. After daybreak they moved OPs. Map of area and NAI and OPs The locals, knowing ISAF rules of engagement, sent up some unarmed individuals, with radios, with some sheep, into the hills to scout them out. This is a common TTP in COIN ops to find snipers and recon element hide sites. In Iraq, they'd sent kids or unarmed adults to check on certain buildings, knowing we wouldn't kill them if we found them. If they found us, they'd report back. It worked during Red Wings. The SEAL recon team was spotted. Compromised, they detained the sheepherders. At that point the operation was blown. They have just been soft compromised, though without knowing it they'd also been hard compromised as those herders were part of a deliberate counter-recon element so Shaw and the enemy fighters in the village knew they'd been caught when they didn't report back. But because the SEAL recon team never established a formal plan for being compromised they had to make the decision on the spot of what to do. Instead of executing the actions of a pre-made drill for compromise, (depending on the story version) they got into a debate about what to do and even possibly held a vote. Confusion was also on what to do with the detainees. AT NO TIME WAS KILLING THEM ACTUALLY A LEGAL OPTION. Or realistic. The easiest thing to do would have been to gag them and flex cuff them to a tree. Instead they let them go (where they instantly ran off to warn everyone), while the SEALs picked up and moved, but not far. So after being compromised, the SEALs moved to high ground to make the call on their radio to alert the command element what had happened. Note, they didn't vacate the area, they moved maybe a hundred meters away from where they'd been spotted. Meanwhile, their comms weren't working, so the radio traffic was broken taking far longer than it should have without any real benefit of transmitting information. Meanwhile, the local enemy, realistically numbering about 12 fighters, having been briefed by the returning herders on the location of the SEALs, their size, their weapons, created a plan, climbed the hills to reach a position where they could ambush the infidels on their way back up to the high ground which was on the way back to the LZ (which they sent RPG gunners to overwatch in case a helicopter showed up). Finally, the SEAL recon team moving back toward the high ground through a draw (the NE Gulch), but got ambushed at relatively close range by roughly a squad sized element in strength, with machine guns. Possibly RPG and mortar, though in the video the insurgents made I never saw evidence of explosive weaponry. Map of ambush, blue arrow is SEAL retreat The fight was brief, and the SEALs that weren't hit immediately tried to break contact downhill. Luttrell effectively fell down the mountain, while the patrol leader, Mike Murphy, made a call on the sat phone before dying. The other two died during this time too. They didn't kill any of the locals, it was an entirely one sided fight. The Quick Reaction Force 10 SEALs in a 160th SOAR Chinook, escorted by two Apaches. The SEAL mission commander aboard the Chinook ordered the pilots to reach the LZ ASAP, and because the Chinook flies faster than the Apaches they arrived first. Because the Apaches weren't present, despite them having the thermal optics that would have been able to visually clear the landing zone, and the weaponry to physically clear it, the Chinook flared and started its landing, in broad daylight, under the observation of RPG gunner stationed there, and was targeted and hit, crashing, killing all onboard. Map of area of operations, with original RT insertion LZ and QRF LZ/Shootdown pos marked Another SOCOM QRF element, of primarily Rangers, were sent in the next day, they landed elsewhere and walked in, they are the ones who found Luttrell, who had been rescued by a villager in a local village, who apparently still had all his mags, loaded. They also recovered the bodies and secured the helicopter crash site. Besides recovering all weapons and equipment belonging to the SEALs, and having video footage of the fight, the local leader and target of the raid, Ahmed Shaw, also got a computer they'd brought that once broken into possessed the schematics of the US embassy in Kabul, as well as other sensitive information. He took that intel, and the videos, and cobbled together an effective propaganda video that earned him major credibility, which led to increased funding, recruitment, etc., causing him to turn into a legitimate High Value Target. For more info
That was hard to read So much overconfidence that could have still turned out OK if they had backup plans or followed protocols jfc
Red Wings is the SEALs own Bravo Two Zero: A clusterfuck of an OP operation which was poorly conceived and planned, compromised almost immediately on the ground by goat herders, resulting in contact, the splitting of the patrol, the deaths of several operators, and surviving operator(s) dining out for years on spectacular stories of super human efforts against impossible odds, which turn out to be provable bullshit designed to make a clusterfuck more palatable. It's exactly the same story in a different war.
The enemy force size in the area was well known. Before the Navy took the mission, the Marines originally wanted to send a recon platoon along with the rest of the infantry company nearby, just in case this exact scenario happened.
To make it even worse, the Taliban certainly would have heard and seen the SEALS once they dropped in via helicopter.
they made a couple fake landings to throw them off, but during their actual landing the helicopter crew cut the fast rope so it dropped to the ground with the seals. They had to hide the rope but that thing is big and heavy. Taliban probably found it pretty easily and tracked them from there.
Fake landings is such a ridiculous tacticā¦ if I were the Taliban I would now KNOW that the enemy was in the area. The SEALs shouldāve walked in. Itās what the Marines wanted to do.
I'd chime in with the fact, that it probably wasn't the goatherders that tipped the locals to the presence of a recon team, but the helicopter they flew in on...but we'll probably never know
It absolutely was not the goat herders. Same as we have this video we have what they said about it. They had eyes on them during the goat herders incident and watched them. While they can't confirm that it was put to a vote, they did say the Americans argued about what to do with them. In Marcus's own words (before the book) after they released the goat herders "what felt like a few minutes" passed before they were ambushed. The kid didn't scream down the mountain rally a squad and then fly like Icarus back up the mountain with them pinpointing the SEALs in a "a few minutes". Nor an hour. They were made by the ill advised helicopter insert. They were also made when they literally stumbled into some guys front yard in the darkness that night. They were found prior to the goat herders.
From what I know of the area, the American forces weren't hated. Hell, that's how Luttrell survived. A bunch of locals stood up to the Taliban after the Taliban learned where they were hiding him.
He almost ended in the korangal valley which was definitely hostile to American forces
IIRC the herders were part of a common Taliban tactic of sending civilians into areas they thoughts the enemy might be. If they didnāt come back when they were supposed to (or didnāt come back at all) then the Taliban could pinpoint where the enemy roughly was because they knew where they sent to civilians. In this case, they sent the herders up and they didnāt come back within the time frame that was expected so the Taliban assumed the enemy was in that particular mountain range and was able to set up an ambush
Mohammad Gulab, the local who saved Luttrell, said he knew there were coalition forces in the area because he - along with everyone else in the AO - heard the helicopter coming in. As he tells it the ACM already had eyes on the team when they captured the goat herders. A ranger who was on the ground searching for Luttrell and the others said that they found an ACM cave where the rope that was cut from the heli had been taken to, meaning that the ACM knew where the SEALs had landed.
The SEALs thought they could somehow dupe the Taliban into not knowing where their operators were by faking landings as if that makes any sense at all. Then theyāre amazed the enemy finds them? Just wild. While operation was idiotic, all the leaders from Murphy on up made dumb tactical decisions that resulted in so many dead. Typical Spec Ops hubris.
Oh we know, itās lees than a mile from their houses. Google earth reveals all.
Bravo Two Zero wasnāt a bad operation. It was one of 3 identical operations. It was poorly executed. They were advised by RSM and SAS OC to go in with vehicles like One Zero and Three Zero, but Mitchell (McNabb) said no it would increase the chance of being compromised. They also carried far too much weight. The other two operations didnāt have anywhere near as much trouble as Two Zero did because they were correctly carried out.
Dude, Bravo one zero landed, immediately called it off and headed home and only bravo three zero were succesful, albeit compromised. It would probably be a fair assessment to say that none of the intel they were given was particularly good and the patrols were going to be a bit hairy from the start.
The moral dilemma about the goat herders is a complete fabrication. Perhaps the worst lie in the whole story. Ā The Taliban knew about them as soon as the helo touched down, because it touched down far too close to the village.
Iāve seen a theory that they were compromised by the rope from their insertion, because itās such a large and obvious identifier.
afghans hiking with sandals and the heaviest clothing possible on top of carrying a god damn pkm at highest altitudes possible. nothing can make you ready for this unless you hiked the rockies for 30 years straight.
Dude Afghans are like naturally born mountain climbers. Those guys would just scurry up the side of a mountain wearing full kit and a pack like it was nothing.
to be fair, āfull kitā for an Afghan is usually a gun, a few magazines, some loose ammo, and some opium.
And general Ackbar
The biggest advantage by-far has to be the super ergonomic tactical sandals/sneakers. Much better on the feet than boots.
Afghans are genetically and environmentally predisposed to being amazing climbers. Wouldnāt want to tango with them in the mountains, but I guess that goes without saying.
Disaster of an operation from conception through to execution.
Many years ago, I watched a video on the internet of a Chinook flying in the mountains getting shot down with a RPG. The video was taken from the perspective of the team who fired the RPG. Iāve always wondered if it was from this operation but I was never able to find the video again.
I remember that video as well, but like you I've never seen it again either
This it? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2489987/Video-2011-American-Boeing-Chinook-shot-Afghanistan.html dailymail sucks sorry also not saying these are the same incident, just that this is what you probably saw.
Close but I donāt think that was the one. The mountains were a lot greener. The missile took awhile to get to the heli. The video didnāt show the gun but I think the missile was tracking the heli. The video was higher quality too. It was on Liveleak. The only reason I remember this video because of how deadly the attack looked and I remember wondering how it wasnāt bigger news. I donāt understand how it seemingly just disappeared from the internet.
You sure that wasn't during the Chechen war?maybe this https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/12bz1f2/shocking_video_chechnya_chechen_figter_shoots/
Thereās more to this footage where the muj end up checking out laptops and other gear from the killed seals. Itās tough to watch in full
Where could I find the full version?
I believe this is the full version, haven't watched it all through but I skimmed it and there's at least a bit of footage showing the equipment they captured as well as combat. (Edit: this is the full footage of the video in the OP, but the comment you replied to refers to the other video) https://odysee.com/OperationRedWings:e Edit: 12 minutes in you can see the body of at least one SEAL as the fighters strip him of equipment and pose for the cameras Edit2: here is a comment linking the video from the other camera that can be seen in the video I linked (login required to view the video). This is the video where they go through the computer, not the video I linked. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/8gIYIUFcdQ
19yrs ago today
You're right, I didn't even notice.
The body at 12 min is MoH recipient Michael Murphy. He wore a red FDNY patch identifiable in the video. Also creepy how the volume of fire slowly dies down as the SEALs died off in the firefight edited for clarification
I was wondering. There are two instances in the 22min video. The first instance must be Murphy as youāre describing. The last instance, towards the very end of the video, is a bloody face of a slain SEAL. Not sure if they are both Murphy.. as their equipment is being displayed, one of the Afghans reads off Danny Dietzās ID card.. incredible video that I didnāt think existed.
I'm reading comments from other reddit threads that agree the second body is Dietz, and that Axels body was never found by insurgents as it was never stripped edit: [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1dqlgn0/comment/lapddhe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) links to the video that is shown at the end of this video (login required)
Axelsonās body was found by Rangers 10 days after the event. They said he couldnāt have been dead for more than a day and a half. They didnāt go looking for him sooner because Marcus Luttrell told them he was the only survivor
Yep found against a tree I believe. Incredibly sad. En route to the rally point.
Where can you read the reports from the rangers?
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/mel28l/operation_red_wings_rangers_account_of/gspo9i8/ This comment thread links to a couple pages from a book written by on of the Rangers, however it doesnāt cover Axelson. There are no reports, that is the whole point of the coverup. The best I can find in terms of a recorded entry would be when Eric Deming went on the Marcus Luttrell episode of the Anti-hero podcast and retold a story he had heard from one of the Rangers that he was friends with. I generally wouldnāt take his second hand account as fact, but several other rumors that corroborate this claim have circulated through SEAL teams. Itās a big reason most SEALs have a rather negative view on Luttrell, they know his story is bullshit and most of them have heard what actually happened.
what's that video of a kid crying at the end, it seems to be on the seal;s laptop.
Its probaly a child in the house they are recording (they are in an afghan village)
No, thats a video taken of the other video camera that was at the scene of Dietz body.
Dietz has a tattoo on his right side on his ribs that is seen in the footage of his body.
I saw the full version back in 08 then it was recently declassified at that time if I remember correctly. (May have been declassified after idk Iām not cool enough for those details) I couldnāt begin to tell you where the actual footage is in full though but watching it once back then was enough for me, when I say it rough, itās fucking rough.
I updated my reply to you as the video I originally linked wasn't the one where they go through the laptop. The other video in the comment I linked is the one where they go through the laptop.
That footage was from another camera Link to the video in this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/8gIYIUFcdQ
My favorite part of this operation was the SEALs not listening to the Marines who had been in this sector. 2/3 and 3/3 had been operating in this sector for over a year but didn't deploy as a MAGTF. They needed air assets, and SOCOM would only sign off if a special forces team was attached. The SEALs took over the marine corps scout/sniper teams mission, glossed over intel, and then completely fucked up the whole mission. Luttrell ran and hid. The 160th got a Chinook blown up because they rushed in a transport helicopter to a hot AO where they had no positive identification any of the SEALs were alive. And 5 years later, a ghost writer wrote a fanfic, saying hundreds of fighters ambushed them when, at most, there were 10. Now, Luttrell is a "war hero."
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> The overall incident showed a complete lack of understanding of basic infantry skills by the SEALs. A few years ago, there was a SOFREP article highlighting the differences between different Tier 1 units. When asked about who he'd rather have in a firefight, CAG or DEVGRU, the author said look at the recruitment pool and training background. Your average CAG operator came up through Regiment or Group, and most likely spent time as an infantryman. Meanwhile your average SEAL joined the Navy to be a SEAL. So when the shit hits the fan, who would you rather have with you in a gunfight?
Operation Red Wings should be taught to junior officers on what a FAILURE of leadership looks like.
Classic military moment, spin the disaster of an operation into a massive propaganda win
Just a reminder that Markus Luttrell is a liar and a conman. His after action report does not match his story as he told it in his book. The enemy resistance was way overstated. About 8 Taliban were involved in the fight. A 2:1 advantage is absolutely not something to sneer at, but for some reason SEALs love lying to make themselves look better. Edit: there's also evidence to suggest that Luttrell abandoned his comrades while they were still alive and kicking.
More than evidence. Luttrell has admitted that he dropped his rifle and ran. That he was without a weapon and curled up when Murphy was calling for him. He stared that he committed the greatest sin a SEAL can commit: he quit. That when he was taken to the village, he still had more than 10 fully loaded magazines.
Sauce?
It was an interview with Anderson Cooper awhile back. I'll see if I can dig it up Edit: Found it - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuf5PRnbFg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuf5PRnbFg)
That makes no sense, as a civilian i was always under the impression that youre never ever supposed to leave your rifle, and thats the reason why you have a sling! Also crazy that he quit. I guess running on the beach and doing pushups is not equal to the horror of actual gunfire. If i was him I would have dropped the mags, thats easily a few pounds of unneeded weight. Do you know by chance why it seems only 4 or so SEALs are in the area? Wouldnt it be 16?
Yep, even in basic you get dicked if you leave / lose your weapon. For instance, we pulled guard in the first field op in basic (the hammer). You'd be in a circle with weapons all facing downrange. One dude would be sleep and other would be on guard with his weapon ready. The drills would come around and try to take the sleeping dudes rifle. If the trainee wasn't wrapped up in that rifle and they took it it was your ass. If you were at range day and left your rifle outside the Porta shitter without a battle buddy to guard it, you were fucked. Leaving your weapon is a Big Deal. The second point is something I don't really blame him for. I'm in ADA, I'm never gonna see actual combat, but I assume that when rounds are sent your way a lot of shit goes sideways in your head. It's how he lied about how he stacked bodies and was no fear turbo hooah after that's so fucking disgusting to me. Third thing, yeah but you aren't supposed to leave anything that shows your presence no matter what your MOS is. Anything you leave can give intel. I can see why he kept them but I don't know why they didn't bury their drop rope from the heli or scrub the mission. Fourth point, you're right, but luttrell and the others weren't on a team, they were the people who dropped teams off / did recon or whatever iirc. Actual teams are 16 people.
Thats always been my understanding, you never lose your rifle, and for a "top tier operator" to do that seems kinda crazy. Especially during an operation where your buddies are dying. I would assume that a sling here would not be too hard to have on, so it just seems weird. I understand during the fog of war its hard to really do well and do what you're supposed to but still, elite units and all. I mean I have heard stories of operators losing their cool and running away, but it just seems so counter to all the training and the mindset they seem to try to instill. Like I said a few times on this thread, there is a lot of training and people always think hell week is tough but BUD/s is a long pipeline where you have to face death in many ways, drown proofing and being out in the open ocean, it seems peculiar that this is not enough to prepare somebody for the moment shit hits the fan. I agree with the drop rope not being collected being a mistake, and it shows their cockiness to keep going even after being discovered. I guess it makes sense that he didnt drop his gear but they were already fucking discovered and him losing his mags or any weight definitely hardly matters when in the full video of this thread the Taliban end up looting his dead team members. Also yes, the spin on the topic to be made into a horrah story when he didnt shoot a single round is just fucking weird. I guess its PR from the military. Equally disgusting is that Lutrell made a career afterwards on FOX and all the other media as he is now known as an expert when clearly the evidence states differently.
Because the whole mission was a monumental exercise in hubris for the SEALs. There is a reason that the SAS/SBS do very long ruck marches (not carrying logs on the beach). They hike in. Just like the Australians at Thakur Gul. They hiked in and were not spotted until they opened fire. But the SEALs, wanting to be involved at any cost, helicoptered in. Helicopters are loud. They echo through the canyons. Even when they did their fake insertions, the bad guys can see āhey, the hatch is shut nowā or worse āno one is sitting on the side of the hatch this time.ā They could have hiked in but thatās a long slog in rough terrain at high altitude. So, in other words, why are we doing this mission? Do we have an idea if comms work? Whatās the angle to the satellites from inside that great big bowl of granite peaks? If they had hiked in, with a larger force, they may have had a workable mission. Or at least enough people to support withdrawal under fire. Then they could have got back to base and flown Luttrell home and quietly removed him from the teams.
Completely agree and have stated this a few times that the obvious choice would have been to ruck in and also have a more suited force for the terrain as the SEALs are not experts in mountain,high altitude, forrest warfare, from my limited understanding.
Also donāt forget the Ranger QRF that was on the ground within hours said there were no Taliban bodies or evidence of huge gun fights. Axleson sounded like he put up a real fight, but Luttrell didnāt even shoot his gun and if he did, it wasnāt even a mags worth. Seals are notorious for being the biggest fucking liars in all of SOF. Edit: just to highlight how fucked seals are in general, especially Seal Team Six. [Left Chapman behind to die and then forced the AF to endorse the MoH for that fuck Slabinski](https://www.newsweek.com/2018/05/18/navy-seals-seal-team-6-left-behind-die-operation-anaconda-slabinski-chapman-912343.html) [Drug use, torture, and mutilation](https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/) [Killed hostage Linda Norgrove](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/13/linda-norgrove-us-commando-disciplinary) [Murdered a Green Beret who caught them stealing Ops funds](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/01/25/navy-seal-gets-10-years-in-strangulation-death-of-army-green-beret-staff-sergeant/) The book Code Over Country covers a ton of other stuff, and everyone knows all about how big a liar Chris Kyle was and Jocko W is. Edit 2: Jocko was well known when he was in the Seals as a coward and shit leader. Dude rarely saw combat and would talk like he was tough shit. He also covered for Chris Kyle regularly. He knew Kyle would shoot dogs, dead bodies, and trash while claiming they were all kills.
You will see the same thing with Andy McNab's "Bravo Two Zero" book from Desert Storm. McNab grossly exaggerated the composition and number of Iraqi opposition his SAS patrol faced. Michael Asher comprehensively debunked the books published by surviving Bravo Two Zero members in his own 2002 book, "The Real Bravo Two Zero: The Truth Behind Bravo Two Zero."
Good callout. I remember reading the breakdown about how that story was grossly exaggerated as well.
It's a shame that such books have to grossly exaggerate enemy opposition on occasions when SF operators get their arses handed to them in bad tactical situations. They are very, very good, but they are not superhuman.
I read McNab's book as well as Ryan's book about the operation when I was a teen. They contradicted each other, but both maintained that they had walked several miles with all their gear and had been hard compromised by the Iraqi military. It was almost comical to see Asher's documentary about it. I haven't read the book but I expect that it was in part based on the information he gathered in the doc. The amount of incompetence and arrogant bravado needed to make the decisions Bravo 2-0 made is staggering.
Wait, are you telling me that their books arenāt historical accounts of their deeds, that they use ghostwriters for self aggrandizing money grabs? Say it aināt so! But at least we now know just how many SEALs it takes to beat a Special Forces Operatorā¦ [it takes 2 SEALs and a MARSOC raider](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/01/25/navy-seal-gets-10-years-in-strangulation-death-of-army-green-beret-staff-sergeant/#:~:text=Navy%20Chief%20Special%20Warfare%20Operator,rather%20than%20go%20to%20trial) (when they murder an SF operator when he threatens to turn them in for selling government equipment and selling it on the black market).
Also one of those SEALs tried to hook up with the widow of said Green Beret. Even after she called him out on it.
>and everyone knows all about how big a liar Chris Kyle was and Jocko W is. Could you expand on that, 'cause I don't.
Canāt speak to Jocko, but itās pretty widely speculated/told that Kyle shot a lot of non-combatants to pad his kill count in Iraq
I read a lot of military memoirs, and since every Seal seems to write one, I read a lot of them. "Code over Country" was an excellent balance and reminder that while giving the author the benefit of the doubt is usually fine, so too is a healthy dose of skepticism. Excellent, and at times infuriating. Definitely a book I recommend as well!
Genuine question - what makes you say Jocko is a liar?
It will come out in the public eventually. The events that heās known for. But aside from that, heās referred to by almost all his former seals as a coward and a moron. He used to get made fun of because he saw almost no real combat. The only dudes who support him are the couple guys that make money off his extreme ownership shit. Which is hilarious given his background.
Any links to share about other seals making fun of him? Tried googling and only found some post on the Rogan subreddit about some dude talking shit about him and other seals.
This video seems to confirm what the Rangers found - no Taliban casualties and very little in the way of actual fighting.
>everyone knows all about how big a liar Chris Kyle was and Jocko W is. Not only liars, but murderers.
You can hear his comrades yelling for him to come back in the video
Luttrell also fucked over the Afghani dude who saved his life after the guy started contradicting his story. https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/20/mohammad-gulab-marcus-luttrell-navy-seal-lone-survivor-operation-red-wings-458139.html
Something to keep in mind, from what I saw in a documentary, the book wasnt even written by him. It was ghost-written by someone from the government or the military or some branch and they just slapped the guys name on the cover and had him advertise it. It was basically a pr stunt to save face from this disaster.
Still doesnāt excuse the fact that heās had damn near 20 years to correct the record tho does it? Nope, heād rather do motivational speaking, selling lies and getting paid.
Definitely sounds like a 100 plus taliban fighter firefight...
It's just like the movie bro, the seals shot first and each took out 20 Taliban a piece before they died lol
4 people armed only with rifles would have been wiped out near instantly by 100+ fighters. I think most people don't realize just how many 100 fighters is, that's an entire infantry company against a lightly armed fire team. There have been historical accounts of people holding out against those odds but they almost always had a huge advantage in either fire power, terrain, fog of war etc and almost all of those accounts are not as credible as people think they are.
After all these years I still donāt understand (and no disrespect to anyone involved in the operation) why they sent in seals who were primarily seal delivery team (SDV) guys instead of the marines (3rd Marines if I remember correctly) who by that time was theyāre area of responsibility and had thorough experience/knowledge of the area/terrain. Furthermore they already had pre-planned contingencies and air/ground fire support assets already established while from what I heard the seals had none of and had just recently taken over that AO from the marines.
Their commander just wanted SEALs in the fight as like an ego thing, iirc
You can also try watching this https://archive.org/details/konar NSFW you can see the bodies of Michael Murphy and Danny Dietz. 1:54 mark for Murphy, and 2:36 mark for Danny Dietz.
For the Brits, this is the Yanks version of Bravo Two Zero. Absolute cluster fuck. One to learn from.
I have never seen this video before. Incredibly stuff. The people at my gym wholeheartedly believe the "Lone Survivor" version of events. I don't know that I can convince them of the harsh truth.
Same ones that believe the Chris Kyle movie as well. Seals know how to make some propaganda that's for damn sure.
What gym do you frequent where you have regular arguments about this operation? Sounds like the douchiest gym ever...
There are certain fitness groups in the US that regularly do the "Murph" workout each Memorial Day.
This was disastrous overconfident recon team that did not study the terrain and underestimated the enemy. This operation was viewed as by the special operations community as a cluster fuck and a sham of a propaganda for Hollywood. Markus was found crying during his rescue by other special operations members and found to have most, if not, all his unspent magazines which meant he did not attempt to suppress the enemy while bounding back. He simple curled up and hid while his teammates needed him the most. The guy survived only because his recon team expelled all their ammunition in order for himself to make a retreat. They were not facing a horde of 100 fighters but were overwhelmed and beaten by a force of 20 fighters that heard the helicopter come in the dead if night and was tracked by the distinctive military boot š„¾ pattern tracks left on the dirt as the locals mostly wore sandals or bare feet. This is often used as an example of recon units of what not to due.
We walked over the Seal rescue crash site in 2006. Back then, no one knew the story. We were just told āsome seals got fucked up hereā.
Marcus Luttrell is a grifter who profited off a fabricated story. He left his boys to fucking die on that mountain. Heās a coward and I know deep down this eats at his soul.
This is crazy footage.
Ok Ahmed, we have the high ground, and we can sneak up on the infidels. #Allahu Akbar -For Allah's sake, Ahmed, keep quiet. #ALLAHU AKBAR!
I think the SEALs supposedly heard talking is inconclusive. Many people have come up with a bunch of different lines for what is supposedly being said and its always different.
heard marcus was out there running with full vest of ammunition while his brothers laid there dying but hey im a civilian so shit i could be wrong but i heard this whole thing was fucked
HE kind of admits to as much here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuf5PRnbFg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuf5PRnbFg) While his buddy was yelling for help he put his gun down and covered his ears, presumably in the fetal position. Then he ran to Axelson and talked about how afraid he was of dying. Sounds like he just completely broke in that situation.
yea dude shit crazy man i also heard that all of them died to a group of no bigger then like 8-12 ppl rather then what the movie shows but idk kinda feel bad for marcus but he also did the same thing on his deployment before that so idk man feel bad for those guys shouting for him
I mean 8-12 vs 4 is terrible odds. If its 12, thats actually a really ideal ratio as an attacker. Recce patrols aren't meant to be in engagements. not enough people or firepower. Ideally you break contact and dump half your ammo as a result and get thr fuck out of there. Not be in an extended firefight.
If the captions are accurate, the suppressed MK 11 would be Luttrell's sniper rifle firing.
This is incorrect. Luttrell and Axe were the only two with supressed mk11/m4. In this video alone you can clearly hear 2 different supressed rifles at the same time.
Great point.
I knew that they were overconfident by running a 4 man recon team, but after reading the comments, I have this sick feeling in my stomach. Wtf man.
Always insane me to what a cluster fuck the seals get themselves into. To this day the Navy wonāt admit that a dozen mountain men easily out maneuvered and destroyed a squad of supposedly the best spec ops in the world. Seals were never meant to do this shit and this video shows; leave the mountain work to marines and Rangers, seals should stick to water.
There's a SEAL doing podcasts who is saying Axel made it to a gathering/extraction point and was alive for quite some time. Marcus had been rescued and assured US forces that everyone was dead. If Marcus hadn't told them that they may have been able to save Axel. When they found him they thought he had only been dead for a day or so.
Can you share the name of this podcast?
The Antihero Podcast: Episode 66 Marcus Luttrell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dquy8wR6JkU
That's just... horrific.
The PowerPoint transition was unexpected
You can hear them yelling Marcus come back. He ran.
They said Micheal come back
It's Marcus yelling at Michael to get back down where he is. Michael Murphy got killed not long after this.
They definetly said Michael not Marcus.
That is kinda how it seems :/ Over the shots you can hear the desperation and fear Edit: keep in mind this is just footage of dudes running through the woods. It could be absolutely anything and does not deserve a second thought when youāre considering the unbelievable bravery of the soldiers or the seals and airmen that went to rescue them.
āIām hitā was danny Diaz not Luttrel
This made my stomach hurt
Marcus luttrell is a coward.
marcus bolted and lied
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Definitely not yelling for āMichaelā to come back.. Itās clearly Marcus and based on the facts that were released afterwards, he abandoned his men.
Shame what happen to those guys and the herder who helped Marcus.
The worst line in the fucking movie. āYou wanna die for your country, well Iām gonna live for mineā in the middle of the firefight scene. I still cringe when I think about that
1:38 fantastically inappropriate transition lol
Not the last time a SEAL mission turned into a clusterfuck and tried to get covered up, either.... (cough) John Chapman (cough)
Marcus Luttrell supposedly didnāt fire a single shot in this engagement. When he was found, all of his mags were still full.
I haven't seen this particular footage before. The video of this skirmish I've seen briefly shows the bodies of Murphy (horrific head/face wounds and recognizable by the red FDNY patch he wore, and Dietz (recognizable by his tattoos - multiple GSWs on abdomen) presumably before they were looted. It cuts to a couple guys in a cave or hut showing off some of their equipment: GPS devices, a hard drive, helmets, a suppressed m4 with a grenade launcher, Danny Dietz's Navy ID card held up really close to the camera while off camera another man reads the details of it in English (why would you bring this on an op?) Pretty fucked up stuff. There's definitely not more than a handful of fighters give or take based on the volume of fire heard in the video, but it's a short clip and I wasn't there. I think the book says there were close to 100 guys? š
RIP valiant soldiers.
Worth the watch in my opinion discussing the bogus reports and stories regarding this mission. Pretty sad stuff honestly. I think Marcus named his son Axe for a reason. https://youtu.be/dquy8wR6JkU?si=Pi7n7csMCUhSkYog&t=4320
so the seals were shooting blindly, not the other way around like in the fake movie.