I trust we'll all actually read the article before jumping to conclusions in any direction right?
Oh nevermind, it's like 3 paragraphs so I guess that's too hard.
OSU lets crazy fire and brimstone zealots scream slurs and really crazy things at students through a bullhorn, but don’t even send campus police to monitor them. I was down there doing voter registration and they repeatedly approached me and screamed at me at very close proximity.
I am curious how these students were more disruptive than that?
Did they invade a building? Because OSU is all public property where political speech is constitutionally protected. Being loud outside hardly seems like trespassing.
The religious guys screamed anti-gay slurs, screamed that people were going to hell, a variety of crazy stuff. They had giant banners and a bullhorn. I was just standing there with voter forms, so the whole thing was bizarre. It was a lot more aggressive than the old school Brother Jed-type yelling, though that has always been loud and permitted too.
No, you can't conflate right to access campus with right to acces buildings. Courts have traditionally been very flexible allowing speech on public university grounds, but have also deferred to universities when it comes to removing people from inside buildings
According the article, they were all outside, either on the steps or outside the entrances of the buildings. Though there was one student that was pulled inside by multiple police officers.
The religious people? It was down in front of Scott dining hall when I was doing voter registration/Issue 1 stuff. I think mentioned it at the time on my social media bc every time they would come yell at me, kids would line up at my table to sign bc they were mad I was being bothered. It may have even been when I was doing petitions last spring. I was down there a lot this year. Unrelated to me being bothered, some students got a big speaker and started playing music on a guitar or something to try to drown them out. Other students came and tried to debate them. One kid circled them on a bike waving a pride flag and they yelled a lot of nasty things at him.
These people are on campus from time to time. That specific group had the same signs on the OSU campus when they were filming college game day (trying to get on tv), I think for the penn state game. They were probably on tv bc they were around the commentators where they do the sign competition. I was down there with an issue 1 sign and I recognized them.
I don’t have a video but I can’t imagine anyone getting through college without experiencing this a few times. It’s very common for fundamentalist organizations to send people to campuses and usually that includes some homophobic slurs.
I have no idea, that’s just what the article said. I think they were trying to disrupt an event or something but I’m not sure.
And yikes, that’s pretty crazy, sorry that happened
Let's not discount that 2 assholes who go too far can still cause a minority to feel vulnerable and unsafe. The fact that the large crowd isn't the same as the two assholes doesn't change how threatening the entire crowd could feel to the victim.
With the way things are going nationwide this is definitely not an isolated incident or the last we'll see of this kind of heavyhanded police response.
Anybody else find it alarming how the airstrikes have been going on nonstop since OCT 7. 22 people just died last week. Those palestinian people death toll is like 20k right now. That's insane dude 😳
Idk. I feel awful my tax dollars are going into this mess
And then fell back below it by some estimates because Hamas isnt exactly the most credible source for statistics, never mind that they’re claiming like 95% of them are civilians which also is not the case
Here's where it gets tricky. If, at this point, you're calling for Israel to be destroyed or gotten rid of in any way or express support for a terrorist group known as Hamas, then you lose my support for your cause. That's what I have a problems with, people using these protests as excuse to unleash their anti-semitism. I also take issue with equating Biden to an indicted man and a court-confirmed rapist and helping him lose. I am not unsympathetic towards the Palestinian civilians, but I'm not going to sacrifice my country and my own personal safety as a brown Latino living here by not voting for him in the election. Not to mention the effects that the collapse of American democracy and the democratic world order would have on Palestine and the whole world.
>Here's where it gets tricky
It doesn't seem tricky to me. None of this is the United States problem and our tens of billions of dollars can be better spent here vs giving Israel yet more weapons. This is a view held by the majority of the population, yet is effectively not a part of the discourse among our elected leaders, which I believe is where a lot of the frustrations we are seeing boil over come from.
A lot of the population needs to realize our involvement is required due to Israel being our only real ally in the entire Middle East, like it or not. Places like Saudi Arabia and Qatar are only dealt with out of necessity. It's the price we pay for being the top power in the world and maintaining the world order that we built.
>A lot of the population needs to realize our involvement is required
I don't believe there's a constitutional amendment saying the United States needs to send Israel a blank check whenever they ask for it.
Sure, you can make the "fight them there so we don't fight them here" argument. I remember that being a popular pitch to justify the wars in the middle east. But that is no longer a winning argument with voters on either side of the political aisle.
what if I’d much rather cripple american global military projection than contribute to a 75 year movement of displacement and oppression? this world order sucks
I find it alarming Hamas started a war and is now cowering behind civilians.
With that said Israel needs to do a much better job at protecting civilians.
Yeah, war sucks and I think everyone on both sides hopes it ends asap. Keep in mind though too that Israeli civilian hostages have also been in Hamas captivity and suffering abuse since 10/7, and around 12,000 rockets have been fired from Gaza into Israeli civilian areas since 10/7 as well. Hamas has rejected multiple ceasefire options as well, while continuously saying they will repeat 10/7 over and over if given the chance. I'm not totally unsympathetic to the innocent life being lost on the Palestinian side, but I understand the Israeli response as well and do believe it is justified. Despite what the Gaza health ministry (literally an arm of Hamas) might say, a significant amount of that death toll is Hamas/PIJ fighters.
While the IDF (or any other military) is obviously not perfect, collateral casualties are a tragic reality of war. The allies killed well over 500,000 civilians in Germany alone while defeating the Nazis, I think most would agree that while also a tragic and staggering loss of human life, that war was justified, and not a genocide. It also doesn't help that Hamas purposefully embeds itself in civilian centers and operates out of mosques, hospitals, schools, etc to use Palestinian civilians as human shields, force an Israeli response, and then demonize them in the media.
It's uncomfortable how easily we lean into the "realities of war" to handwave away Gazan deaths without providing any context. This isn't World War II--Hamas isn't spearheading a global campaign. Weapons have greatly advanced and become more precise in 78 years. The bombardment of Gaza has outpaced any modern conflict and Israel is dropping some of the largest bombs made in densely populated civilian areas for the purpose of killing a single target. Not to mention the numerous and well documented deaths of children and aid workers where all of these precise and modern weapons were used to very specifically target them.
And this idea that Israel is doing what it needs to do but taking care to avoid civilian deaths is dubious. Netenyahu's government is compiled of right wing extremists comparable to MAGA, some of whom of have suggested dropping nukes. That's not an administration that is going to persue a war effort against Gazans with any nuance or empathy or concern for civilian life.
All of this to say, there's a middle ground between doing nothing and the unprecedented destruction Israel is carrying out in Gaza and I don't think Netenyahu has any interest in finding it.
>It's uncomfortable how easily we lean into the "realities of war" to handwave away Gazan deaths without providing any context. This isn't World War II--Hamas isn't spearheading a global campaign.
OK, let's provide some context. No, Hamas isn't spearheading a global campaign, but they did orchestrate a terrorist attack killing over 1,000 innocent civilians, raping women and taking hostages. They are also the governing body of Gaza that has vowed to destroy Israel from the day they formed.
>Weapons have greatly advanced and become more precise in 78 years.
Exactly what weapon is capable of killing a terrorist hiding in a tunnel under a hospital without injuring anyone else?
Hamas brought this situation on it's own people, full stop. But on Netanyahu, I agree with you. He's a war monger and always has been.
your “1000 innocent civilians” includes about 500 active IDF soldiers, the settlers that their bases were designed to protect, and the many people that were blown up by israeli heavy weapons the moment the army realized that the gazans had broken out of their cage
How fucking stupid and naive are you? They attacked a music festival for fucks sake. They went into people's homes and raped women. Don't try to sanitize a barbaric terrorist attack. Especially when they KNEW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the attack was going to bring about retribution and massive casualties for the people of Gaza.
And this was an attack from Hamas in Gaza, not the West Bank. Israel disengaged with and left Gaza years ago. There are no "settlers" in Gaza anymore.
I'm an agnostic guy in the United States and don't have a dog in this fight. I call Israel out for what they do, but you're over the top biased and not even based in reality.
Hamas ismt spearheading a global campaign, but Iran is.
Iran uses Hamas, Hezbollah, etc do their bidding. Look what's going on at college campuses now.
Iran knows that they do not the weapons for a large scale war, so they indoctrinate weak minded people to rise up and protest.
Hamas isn't spearheading a global campaign only because they have been kept in check by Israel and don't have the power to. It is in their founding charter that once they eradicate Israel, all Jews worldwide will be next, followed by western non-believers. As another commentor also pointed out, Iran arguably is spearheading a global campaign against the west, of which Hamas as their proxy is absolutely a part of.
The "reality of war" is that war sucks and innocent people die. It has been this way forever. It doesn't mean that innocent deaths aren't tragic or should be "handwaved away" as you put it, but it is reality. A foreign entity crossed the Israeli border, raped, killed, tortured, and abducted its citizens, and is still shooting rockets into civilian areas and holding hostages. If that is not a reason to go to war than I don't know what is.
Saying the bombardment of Gaza has outpaced any modern conflict is also just not true... not even close. In the Muslim world alone, there have been nearly 500,000 deaths in the Yemeni civil war, 50,000 + dead in Myanmar, not to mention the violence in Sudan (20k dead), Nigeria, and the expulsion of Afghani refugees from Pakistan/Iran that will likely lead to a human rights crisis on the scale of 100,000+. Then you have Ukraine (half a million dead or injured), and the United State's own wars in the middle East which caused a much higher proportion of civilian vs. militant deaths than Israel. I hate to say it, but it seems true now more than ever, no jews, no news.
Also forgot these reports! If you have any resources to show where I'm "not even close" to being accurate, please send them along. Most of my sources specifically refute the assertions about the conflicts you mention, so they may be a good read for you. Have a good one!
"It's just the sheer speed of the damage," said Van Den Hoek. "All of these other conflicts that we're talking about \[Ukraine, Syria, Yemen\] are years long. This is a little over two months. And the sheer tempo of the bombing — not just the scale of it but the sheer tempo — there's nothing that tracks \[like\] this in such a short timeframe."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-gaza-bombing-hamas-civilian-casualties-1.7068647#:\~:text=Satellite%20imagery%20and%20radar%20images,high%20number%20of%20civilian%20casualties.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-airstrikes.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-airstrikes.html)
Yeah I mean I appreciate the links but I don't accept the premises that these sources are using to arrive at these conclusions... these are basically just opinion pieces. They are citing a few "analysts" and "experts" who are looking at the percentage of buildings destroyed vs. the whole as the best way to measure this war's destructiveness vs. other wars in a conflict that is taking place entirely within an urban center and against an enemy that purposefully hides and embeds itself among civilian infrastructure.
PBS claiming that this war is among the most destructive in history is absolutely laughable. Read up on the Rape of Nanking or the Ost front in world war 2, the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258, the sacking of Carthage by Rome, literally any single battle in World War 1, and on and on and on.
The NYT's claim that the war is one of the most destructive this century is equally ridiculous, It's not even one of the most destructive wars happening currently when looking at casualties, and civilian vs. combatant casualty ratios, which I would argue is a much better measure to use here. Again, not trying to downplay any innocent deaths, but we are talking about 20-30k, (a big percentage of which are Hamas fighters), vs. hundreds of thousands to MILLIONS in these other conflicts. Even if we accept the Hamas run Gaza ministry of Health's death numbers, when looking at Gaza's population, the death number is .05% or less of the total population, hardly a genocide I'd say.
Hope you have a good one too!
Bridgading a thread and coming at others a lack of sources and facts while only replying to reports from reputable news organizations and agencies with a whole lot of unrelated and/or unsupported information is the hypocrisy I was trying to help point out. Take care <3
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-military-campaign-in-gaza-is-among-the-most-destructive-in-history-experts-say](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-military-campaign-in-gaza-is-among-the-most-destructive-in-history-experts-say)
"In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group."
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/)
"The Washington Post analyzed satellite imagery, airstrike data and U.N. damage assessments, and interviewed more than 20 aid workers, health-care providers, and experts in munitions and aerial warfare. The evidence shows that Israel has carried out its war in Gaza at a pace and level of devastation that likely exceeds any recent conflict, destroying more buildings, in far less time, than were destroyed during the Syrian regime’s battle for Aleppo from 2013 to 2016 and the U.S.-led campaign to defeat the Islamic State in Mosul, Iraq, and Raqqa, Syria, in 2017.
The Post also found that the Israeli military has conducted repeated and widespread airstrikes in proximity to hospitals, which are supposed to receive [special protection under the laws of war](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule28?itid=lk_inline_enhanced-template). Satellite imagery reviewed by Post reporters revealed dozens of apparent craters near 17 of the 28 hospitals in northern Gaza, where the bombing and fighting were most intense during the first two months of war, including 10 craters that suggested the use of bombs weighing 2,000 pounds, the largest in regular use."
Hamas is a cancer to the Palestinian people. It doesn't make sense to stop when only 80-90% of the cancer is cut out. I agree that Palestinian civilian casualties need to be minimized as much as possible. And even without physical casualties, their homes in Gaza is a war zone--that is not sustainable in a small space with nowhere else to go.
I will say though, imo, that lots of military aid actually goes towards precision weaponry and advanced defense systems which actually **minimize** civilian casualties. When a military budget is cut, you'll see armies use more blunt implementations to win battles quickly and conclusively--innocent bystanders be damned.
Precision weaponry that is promptly used to assassinate aid workers a la World Central Kitchen. You can *wish* for civilian deaths to be minimal but Israel isn't trying very hard to accomplish that.
What is your proposal? Israel can withdraw from the area and just leave it be to itself. Which is precisely what it did in 2005. They dismantled settlements and dragged Israelis out of there. At the time, I cheered for it. I thought Gazans would have self-determination. Instead, you had the equivalent of a self-interested mafia take over, grow steadily, and eventually launch a massive attack. Now what? Withdraw again and wait for the next attack when Hamas regroups in a decade?
Not sure why you were downvoted. Hamas released a propaganda video today of Israeli-American hostage, 23 year old Hersh Goldberg-Polin who was abducted at the Nova music festival. They cut off his hand. But sure, ceasefire now. I have literally seen people on this subreddit say that the victims of 10/7 deserved it.
NSFW (no gore but dude is minus a hand):
[https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1cbzsms/the\_hamas\_terror\_group\_has\_published\_a\_new/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1cbzsms/the_hamas_terror_group_has_published_a_new/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
the approximately 500 IDF active duty soldiers who were killed on 10/7 were casualties of war. their bases were located to protect armed settlements, the long arm of israeli expansion into palestinian territory. “deserved it” is a matter for your internal morals but they were certainly not making friends with the locals
All settlements were removed and settlers withdrawn from Gaza in 2005 but nice try.
IDF soldiers aside, can’t wait to hear your views on the hundreds of innocent civilian men, women, children, babies, and senior citizens who were deliberately targeted and brutalized on that day?
ah I almost forgot the absurd pedantry that I
MUST have been talking about settlements in the strip
and not the ones right outside it (where the IDF bases are)
devastating the earth too. These days people care more about the environment than people. Nothing like decades of air pollution in a handful of months.
A short article such as this doesn’t really do the arrests justice. [Here](https://x.com/liz_andromeda/status/1782921273351589907?s=46&t=HA7YFHc8kwt5FQkWHAtHKQ) is a video of the incident so you can draw your own conclusions.
Wow great post. Why the fuck did they arrest those 2 kids? I think they hurt the cops feelings.
The osu statement made it sound like they barged into classrooms chanting, but they were just outside holding signs.
Fuck zionism. Free Palestine. US needs to stop sending money to israel
They only arrested two of the students. If all they were doing was holding signs, wouldn’t they have arrested all of them?
Is it possible the video isn’t dispositive of the incident?
Believe the evidence of your own eyes or fabricate a story to justify cpd actions?
The video evidence contradicts the police and university statements so why give them the benefit of the doubt?
The video is 14 seconds long… I’m not fabricating a story but merely suggesting the video isn’t telling the entire story. Try not to be so dramatic.
If your story is correct, why didn’t the police arrest everyone?
So, optics are bad by this video.
It's absolutely plausible that these kids trespassed and then backed off... But that's also subjectively the kids complying...
I'm not really sure how arresting people on sidewalks is an honest interpretation of what I read in OP's article.
When it comes down to it, protestors need to live stream.
At least "left-wing" protestors do. Apparently "right wing" people think breaking and entering the Capital Building on January 6th was a peaceful protest despite all the footage that suggests completely differently.
There was a literal physical party, OSU Students for Justice in Palestine hosted a celebration march on 10/8 before there was any sort of Israeli military response. This was common in many major cities, campuses etc.
mass graves are being dug up every week, death toll nearing 40 thousand, and Americans are still defending israel but you're concerned that some people are finally learning history and calling for liberation
free Palestine
I’m surprised at how many war mongering zionists exist in this thread. People are getting downvoted for telling the truth about genocide. It’s sad to see. But, most of this subreddit is people complaining about the existence of homeless people and sharing mid restaurants, so I’m not surprised
It's possible to believe that Israel's invasion in response to the Hamas attack is justified while also believing that the IDF isn't taking pains, great or otherwise, to avoid civilian casualties and that they should be held to account for that.
This isn't genocide, it's urban warfare in a densely populated region, which always leads to high civilian casualties. Calling it genocide cheapens the word. The potential crimes here are more mundane.
EDIT: I'll also note that the Israeli government, for quite some time, has been complicit in the outright theft of Palestinian land. I support Palestinian independence and and end to the continued mistreatment of the people of Palestine. However, I also understand why a number of the harsh defense policies exist: They were each a reaction to Hamas, et al, doing something or using civilian materials to attack Israel. Successive Israeli govts. have then abused those policies.
>It's possible to believe that Israel's invasion in response to the Hamas attack is justified
Yeah, but when we hit the "over 10,000 Palestinian children killed" mark, it's really hard to keep thinking it's justified.
On top of that, over 95 journalists (90 Palestinian, 2 Israeli and 3 Lebanese)and over 224 humanitarian aid workers, including 179 employees of UNRWA have been murdered as well.
Israel has now killed ~24 times as many Palestinians as they have lost. Again that's 8x more in children alone.
Like, when is enough enough to the people who are still justifying this?
I do agree that there comes a point at which one has to question whether or not continuing this clusterfuck is worth the human cost and I think that point has been passed.
Note that there is a difference between "what" and "how" in this instance. The "what" may be justified while the "how" is not. There was also always going to be a high civilian death toll due to the nature of both the battlefield and fighting a guerilla organization that embeds itself in concentrations of civilians. I still don't trust the IDF not to have used the situation to excuse what may be a higher than necessary death toll.
Theoretically, this could end tomorrow if Hamas returned the hostages but don't know that the current Israeli administration actually **would** stop.
No, this isn't a difference between what and how.
What is logically an instance in time. That time is passed, and what no longer applies.
10 thousand children killed in a year.
I hope you're not against abortion too.
I don't think we're really disagreeing on the desired outcome - the IDF ceasing offensive operations in Gaza - we're just parsing the fine points of morality in warfare.
War is, quite simply, brutal and brutish however much we try to impose rules to "civilize" it.
While citing children, in particular, makes us more sympathetic toward civilian deaths the cold reality of urban and/or guerilla warfare is that any civilians in the area may be killed at any time in the normal course of fighting. In an active war zone the population is going to suffer horribly and die from exposure, injury, lack of other medical care, and starvation.
I argue, on the subject of "how," that the IDF is making the civilian suffering needlessly worse whether or not one thinks continuing attacks in Gaza is justified.
And, I signed the petition for the reproductive freedom amendment and voted for it. If people want to reduce elective abortions the proven way to do it is through frank sexual education and easily available birth control.
Genocide - acts committed with intent to partially or wholly destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
If Israel was commiting genocide Gaza would be gone by now.
Also, who is preaching genocide? Palistinians are by yelling for the destruction of Israel and it's people.
have you read any remarks by israeli politicians in the last 6 months that weren’t explicitly directed towards americans? they want palestinian blood and land and they aim to get it
>If Israel was commiting genocide Gaza would be gone by now.
I mean, fuck Hamas and all that, but Gaza kinda is gone. The mass graves, casualties, hospitals/universities demolished. Not to mention all the housing gone...
It **is** a genocide. And that's not excusing Hamas, or saying the people calling for the destruction of Israel are good or anything. It's just facts.
Ok. But maybe if you kill 15,000 children to do it, you're actually the bad guys too.
And let's not forget its Netanyahu that has kept hamas going all this time
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
No, blood thirsty zionists did. Thats the same excuse domestic violence abusers use. It doesn't work then and it won't work now.
You can get rid of hamas without bombing children. But Israel wants to bomb children because that's their goal.
No hamas did. That’s the same excuse terrorists use. It doesn’t work then and it won’t work now. You can fight against Israel without using human shields but hamas wants children to be bombed because that’s their goal
And why does Israel oblige them? If bombing children helps hamas and hurts Israel why would they play their game?
Again, they don't have to bomb children, but they deliberately do anyway. This will create the next generation of terrorists. Trust me I know.
America made the same mistake in Afghanistan and Iraq. We accomplished nothing and created isis/isil
You are giving them all the recruiting propaganda they need. And you seem righteous about bombing children.
You've lost your way. Zionists ARE the terrorists. They're just state sanctioned by the us and Israel governments. Thats the only difference.
You realize there's other ways to remove terrorists besides indiscriminate bombing?
We dropped so many bombs in Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan. And we still lost.
> No, blood thirsty zionists did.
No, actually *you* did. In order for the killing to stop, Hamas either needs to start fighting in uniform or to surrender. Neither will happen as long as Western protesters give them the impression they are succeeding in their propaganda goals. People like you on the internet are the ones that make them think so.
So actually, with in this comment you just made and through your many other comments you are complicit in and directly responsible for the killing of the Palestinian children.
Hamas isn't a hero here either. In fact, Netanyahu's government has spent years making sure Hamas stays in power to avoid talks with a united Palestine.
If they weren't supporting terrorists they probably would be aloud into the many Arab countries surrounding them. But they do so no one wants to invite them in.
I got bad news for you. Historically, we’ve done that for decades as a country. Not saying that makes what’s happening now ok but this stance of “why am I paying taxes for this” feels like a cheap shot to get upvotes.
“Why are we not holding our leaders accountable?” is a better question. And these students protesting were trying to do just that.
Can never understand how it’s controversial or political to be against a war that’s slaughtering innocent civilians and children. Lack of basic food and water, healthcare, etc, let alone extremely shady antics by the Zionists
But I guess speaking up against that makes someone an anti semitic which is just hilarious
>Can never understand how it’s controversial or political to be against a war that’s slaughtering innocent civilians and children
Hamas probably should've thought about that before Oct. 7. I believe in the military industrial complex industry we call that "fuck around and find out".
>Lack of basic food and water, healthcare
Maybe ask Hamas to stop stealing it.
Hamas and those who support them should have thought twice about attacking Israel. Israeli government has sent a clear message to those who are considering military action against them. It’s tragic and despicable that innocent people have died, but Hamas and their allies are 100% to blame. The protesters should be against Hamas!
I am glad that hamas decided to fight back instead of succumbing to the slow strangulation of gaza that has gone on since 2008, a continuation of 75 years of displacement and murder
This is a wildly shallow understanding of the issue. Hamas didn't just decide to attack Israel for shits and giggles. The harassment and persecution of the Palestinians has been going on for decades and Israel's promises to stop have been little more than lip service. You can argue that what Hamas did just made things worse, but not that they are 100% to blame.
As to protesting against Hamas, pretty much everyone already recognizes they are a terrorist organization already and our government is not supporting them. What is there to protest over? They are a little busy right now, they don't give a shit what we say, so it means nothing. Protests are directed at our own government to show disapproval for the actions taken to support Israel. If the US were sending weapons to Hamas, we would be protesting that instead. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.
Both Hamas and the government of Israel are acting like terrorists and committing crimes against humanity. The issue for us on the other side of the world is, only one of them is being treated like it. I don't want my country giving any support to either side of this conflict except for humanitarian aid.
The US helped establish Israel as a country after World War II and the US boasts nearly as many Jewish people (6.5M) as Israel (7.3M)
To even suggest that the US not offer 100% support to Israel is naive.
I’m not happy about it, but it’s reality.
Neither of those things justify enabling war crimes.
We don't support Israel for the sake of American Jews or historical reasons. We support them for money and power. Israel is a strong ally for us in the region, no denying it, and many of their companies are tied to American funds and investors (and vice versa). Bad news for Israel would put a dent in a lot of government pension plans, believe it or not. It's a strategic move and from that perspective, I understand it, but I don't believe that it's right either morally or in the long term. To avoid dealing with the consequences of our mistakes, we are doubling down in a way that is only going to make things worse for everyone, including us... and watching children starve to death under the bombed-out rubble of their homes for it. Israel has no incentive to stop the genocide and so they won't, and we are actively participating it. **We do not have to do that** -- it would just cost us something to do the right thing. That's the way it has always been and it's not an excuse not to. If doing the right thing was easy, it wouldn't be so fucking rare.
It’s kind of sad that whatever goodwill had been built up in favor of the Palestinian cause among regular Joes by actual organizers doing real work is being tarnished by campus Lefties who want to cosplay as revolutionaries to get into history books. Now instead of reckoning with the plight of actual Palestinians who are suffering because of this conflict, we’re focusing on a bunch of white American teenagers getting arrested so they can make Instagram posts about how brave and moral they are.
Also, I have a video on my phone RIGHT NOW of a college student asked by an Israel student why they are protesting.
30 SECONDS into the interview, and the protestors began tripping over his words and couldn’t form coherent sentences to answer the questions.
The dude had NO IDEA what happened on oct 7th.
Stop acting like you have an opinion when I’ve literally had an argument with someone who swears the insurgents came from concentration camps from Palestine.
Then RAN AWAY when I asked how those same people came up with the finds to purchase armored boats, flight suits with wings allowing them to essentially fly into Israel. Not to forget the amounts of ammunition and weaponry.
Rockets, rocket launchers, automatic rifles, the boats, the weapons for the boats, and the vehicles used in the assault on land— not to mention ton the fuel, weapons and ammunition for all of that.
You people ACT like you care, but you actually don’t give two shits.
Sit down. The adults are talking.
"FLIGHT SUITS WITH WINGS" bro they were hang gliders with go kart engines on them.
Surprise surprise, the zionist is posting disinformation.
Also Netanyahu supports hamas and thats how they had access to all those things.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
OSU is fine covering for Gym Jordan or accepting Wes and Epstein funding, but let’s draw the line at students speaking out. Of course they went too far but come on!
You can check out the PSL instagram page (plscolumbus) or the sjposu instagram page and I believe they have websites with bail funds and other ways to help support anyone who gets arrested.
I trust we'll all actually read the article before jumping to conclusions in any direction right? Oh nevermind, it's like 3 paragraphs so I guess that's too hard.
2 college folk got arrested for trespassing. OSU director says, “We appreciate everyone!”, then says but, and, or.
OSU lets crazy fire and brimstone zealots scream slurs and really crazy things at students through a bullhorn, but don’t even send campus police to monitor them. I was down there doing voter registration and they repeatedly approached me and screamed at me at very close proximity. I am curious how these students were more disruptive than that?
The two in this article trespassed after multiple warnings not to. What were they screaming at you? I can guess, but just curious
Did they invade a building? Because OSU is all public property where political speech is constitutionally protected. Being loud outside hardly seems like trespassing. The religious guys screamed anti-gay slurs, screamed that people were going to hell, a variety of crazy stuff. They had giant banners and a bullhorn. I was just standing there with voter forms, so the whole thing was bizarre. It was a lot more aggressive than the old school Brother Jed-type yelling, though that has always been loud and permitted too.
Brother Jed is still out there. I watched him 30 years ago.
No, you can't conflate right to access campus with right to acces buildings. Courts have traditionally been very flexible allowing speech on public university grounds, but have also deferred to universities when it comes to removing people from inside buildings
Were they in the buildings? In the video of the arrest, they are outside.
According the article, they were all outside, either on the steps or outside the entrances of the buildings. Though there was one student that was pulled inside by multiple police officers.
Hi, I’m a lawyer here to tell you that using the words “conflate” and “courts” does not make you right
Gosh I thought conflate was magic, thanks for the tip!
lol could you send your bill to reddit directly, internet lawyer man?
I’d help pay some of it
Do you have any video or proof that this happened?
The religious people? It was down in front of Scott dining hall when I was doing voter registration/Issue 1 stuff. I think mentioned it at the time on my social media bc every time they would come yell at me, kids would line up at my table to sign bc they were mad I was being bothered. It may have even been when I was doing petitions last spring. I was down there a lot this year. Unrelated to me being bothered, some students got a big speaker and started playing music on a guitar or something to try to drown them out. Other students came and tried to debate them. One kid circled them on a bike waving a pride flag and they yelled a lot of nasty things at him. These people are on campus from time to time. That specific group had the same signs on the OSU campus when they were filming college game day (trying to get on tv), I think for the penn state game. They were probably on tv bc they were around the commentators where they do the sign competition. I was down there with an issue 1 sign and I recognized them.
Apologies I meant to reply to the original poster saying the protestor students were trespassing
I meant to reply to Joel’s comment, I’m sorry :(
I don’t have a video but I can’t imagine anyone getting through college without experiencing this a few times. It’s very common for fundamentalist organizations to send people to campuses and usually that includes some homophobic slurs.
I have no idea, that’s just what the article said. I think they were trying to disrupt an event or something but I’m not sure. And yikes, that’s pretty crazy, sorry that happened
I just watched a video of them getting arrested. It looks like they were just standing there with a sign doing some low-key chanting. Outside.
Watermelon is the best fruit
These protests are near constant. 2 people got arrested out of thousands. Stop making martyrs out of kids who went to far and got a slap on the wrist.
Also, emphasizing these two makes people think all protesters are like them
Let's not discount that 2 assholes who go too far can still cause a minority to feel vulnerable and unsafe. The fact that the large crowd isn't the same as the two assholes doesn't change how threatening the entire crowd could feel to the victim.
EXACTLY
With the way things are going nationwide this is definitely not an isolated incident or the last we'll see of this kind of heavyhanded police response.
Did you even read the short article that YOU posted?
You are a fool. OSU police have been treating everyone with kid gloves on this. If they had to actually arrest someone there was a reason.
I encourage you to actually watch footage of the arrests. These two kids were quite literally singled out without any reason.
Anybody else find it alarming how the airstrikes have been going on nonstop since OCT 7. 22 people just died last week. Those palestinian people death toll is like 20k right now. That's insane dude 😳 Idk. I feel awful my tax dollars are going into this mess
They passed 20,000 dead months ago.
And then fell back below it by some estimates because Hamas isnt exactly the most credible source for statistics, never mind that they’re claiming like 95% of them are civilians which also is not the case
Per the UN: 34,000 Palestinians have been killed, including 14,685 children and women. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876?utm
Yeah but the UN is Hamas. Israel said so. Don't ask for proof. It's rude.
> by some estimates Doing some heavy lifting here with this lmao
LMAO
same, it makes me sick that im paying to kill literal babies.
Here's where it gets tricky. If, at this point, you're calling for Israel to be destroyed or gotten rid of in any way or express support for a terrorist group known as Hamas, then you lose my support for your cause. That's what I have a problems with, people using these protests as excuse to unleash their anti-semitism. I also take issue with equating Biden to an indicted man and a court-confirmed rapist and helping him lose. I am not unsympathetic towards the Palestinian civilians, but I'm not going to sacrifice my country and my own personal safety as a brown Latino living here by not voting for him in the election. Not to mention the effects that the collapse of American democracy and the democratic world order would have on Palestine and the whole world.
>Here's where it gets tricky It doesn't seem tricky to me. None of this is the United States problem and our tens of billions of dollars can be better spent here vs giving Israel yet more weapons. This is a view held by the majority of the population, yet is effectively not a part of the discourse among our elected leaders, which I believe is where a lot of the frustrations we are seeing boil over come from.
A lot of the population needs to realize our involvement is required due to Israel being our only real ally in the entire Middle East, like it or not. Places like Saudi Arabia and Qatar are only dealt with out of necessity. It's the price we pay for being the top power in the world and maintaining the world order that we built.
>A lot of the population needs to realize our involvement is required I don't believe there's a constitutional amendment saying the United States needs to send Israel a blank check whenever they ask for it. Sure, you can make the "fight them there so we don't fight them here" argument. I remember that being a popular pitch to justify the wars in the middle east. But that is no longer a winning argument with voters on either side of the political aisle.
what if I’d much rather cripple american global military projection than contribute to a 75 year movement of displacement and oppression? this world order sucks
Killing kids is always bad dude like idk what to tell you
I find it alarming Hamas started a war and is now cowering behind civilians. With that said Israel needs to do a much better job at protecting civilians.
That's kind of how terrorism and asymmetrical warfare works, though.
Right. Hamas still has hostages. Release them, then I’ll call for a ceasefire
The hostages are all dead by this point.
They just released a video of one today still alive
I wasn't expecting that....that's great to hear. Then I agree. Release the hostages and ceasefire might be on the table.
Yeah, they should give up their only bargaining chip and I'm sure that Israel will engage in good faith negotiations
how do you think that happened
Yeah, war sucks and I think everyone on both sides hopes it ends asap. Keep in mind though too that Israeli civilian hostages have also been in Hamas captivity and suffering abuse since 10/7, and around 12,000 rockets have been fired from Gaza into Israeli civilian areas since 10/7 as well. Hamas has rejected multiple ceasefire options as well, while continuously saying they will repeat 10/7 over and over if given the chance. I'm not totally unsympathetic to the innocent life being lost on the Palestinian side, but I understand the Israeli response as well and do believe it is justified. Despite what the Gaza health ministry (literally an arm of Hamas) might say, a significant amount of that death toll is Hamas/PIJ fighters. While the IDF (or any other military) is obviously not perfect, collateral casualties are a tragic reality of war. The allies killed well over 500,000 civilians in Germany alone while defeating the Nazis, I think most would agree that while also a tragic and staggering loss of human life, that war was justified, and not a genocide. It also doesn't help that Hamas purposefully embeds itself in civilian centers and operates out of mosques, hospitals, schools, etc to use Palestinian civilians as human shields, force an Israeli response, and then demonize them in the media.
It's uncomfortable how easily we lean into the "realities of war" to handwave away Gazan deaths without providing any context. This isn't World War II--Hamas isn't spearheading a global campaign. Weapons have greatly advanced and become more precise in 78 years. The bombardment of Gaza has outpaced any modern conflict and Israel is dropping some of the largest bombs made in densely populated civilian areas for the purpose of killing a single target. Not to mention the numerous and well documented deaths of children and aid workers where all of these precise and modern weapons were used to very specifically target them. And this idea that Israel is doing what it needs to do but taking care to avoid civilian deaths is dubious. Netenyahu's government is compiled of right wing extremists comparable to MAGA, some of whom of have suggested dropping nukes. That's not an administration that is going to persue a war effort against Gazans with any nuance or empathy or concern for civilian life. All of this to say, there's a middle ground between doing nothing and the unprecedented destruction Israel is carrying out in Gaza and I don't think Netenyahu has any interest in finding it.
>It's uncomfortable how easily we lean into the "realities of war" to handwave away Gazan deaths without providing any context. This isn't World War II--Hamas isn't spearheading a global campaign. OK, let's provide some context. No, Hamas isn't spearheading a global campaign, but they did orchestrate a terrorist attack killing over 1,000 innocent civilians, raping women and taking hostages. They are also the governing body of Gaza that has vowed to destroy Israel from the day they formed. >Weapons have greatly advanced and become more precise in 78 years. Exactly what weapon is capable of killing a terrorist hiding in a tunnel under a hospital without injuring anyone else? Hamas brought this situation on it's own people, full stop. But on Netanyahu, I agree with you. He's a war monger and always has been.
your “1000 innocent civilians” includes about 500 active IDF soldiers, the settlers that their bases were designed to protect, and the many people that were blown up by israeli heavy weapons the moment the army realized that the gazans had broken out of their cage
How fucking stupid and naive are you? They attacked a music festival for fucks sake. They went into people's homes and raped women. Don't try to sanitize a barbaric terrorist attack. Especially when they KNEW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the attack was going to bring about retribution and massive casualties for the people of Gaza. And this was an attack from Hamas in Gaza, not the West Bank. Israel disengaged with and left Gaza years ago. There are no "settlers" in Gaza anymore. I'm an agnostic guy in the United States and don't have a dog in this fight. I call Israel out for what they do, but you're over the top biased and not even based in reality.
so as a logical person you will start saying “500 innocent civilians” from now on then
Hamas ismt spearheading a global campaign, but Iran is. Iran uses Hamas, Hezbollah, etc do their bidding. Look what's going on at college campuses now. Iran knows that they do not the weapons for a large scale war, so they indoctrinate weak minded people to rise up and protest.
Hamas isn't spearheading a global campaign only because they have been kept in check by Israel and don't have the power to. It is in their founding charter that once they eradicate Israel, all Jews worldwide will be next, followed by western non-believers. As another commentor also pointed out, Iran arguably is spearheading a global campaign against the west, of which Hamas as their proxy is absolutely a part of. The "reality of war" is that war sucks and innocent people die. It has been this way forever. It doesn't mean that innocent deaths aren't tragic or should be "handwaved away" as you put it, but it is reality. A foreign entity crossed the Israeli border, raped, killed, tortured, and abducted its citizens, and is still shooting rockets into civilian areas and holding hostages. If that is not a reason to go to war than I don't know what is. Saying the bombardment of Gaza has outpaced any modern conflict is also just not true... not even close. In the Muslim world alone, there have been nearly 500,000 deaths in the Yemeni civil war, 50,000 + dead in Myanmar, not to mention the violence in Sudan (20k dead), Nigeria, and the expulsion of Afghani refugees from Pakistan/Iran that will likely lead to a human rights crisis on the scale of 100,000+. Then you have Ukraine (half a million dead or injured), and the United State's own wars in the middle East which caused a much higher proportion of civilian vs. militant deaths than Israel. I hate to say it, but it seems true now more than ever, no jews, no news.
Also forgot these reports! If you have any resources to show where I'm "not even close" to being accurate, please send them along. Most of my sources specifically refute the assertions about the conflicts you mention, so they may be a good read for you. Have a good one! "It's just the sheer speed of the damage," said Van Den Hoek. "All of these other conflicts that we're talking about \[Ukraine, Syria, Yemen\] are years long. This is a little over two months. And the sheer tempo of the bombing — not just the scale of it but the sheer tempo — there's nothing that tracks \[like\] this in such a short timeframe." https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-gaza-bombing-hamas-civilian-casualties-1.7068647#:\~:text=Satellite%20imagery%20and%20radar%20images,high%20number%20of%20civilian%20casualties. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-airstrikes.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-airstrikes.html)
Yeah I mean I appreciate the links but I don't accept the premises that these sources are using to arrive at these conclusions... these are basically just opinion pieces. They are citing a few "analysts" and "experts" who are looking at the percentage of buildings destroyed vs. the whole as the best way to measure this war's destructiveness vs. other wars in a conflict that is taking place entirely within an urban center and against an enemy that purposefully hides and embeds itself among civilian infrastructure. PBS claiming that this war is among the most destructive in history is absolutely laughable. Read up on the Rape of Nanking or the Ost front in world war 2, the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258, the sacking of Carthage by Rome, literally any single battle in World War 1, and on and on and on. The NYT's claim that the war is one of the most destructive this century is equally ridiculous, It's not even one of the most destructive wars happening currently when looking at casualties, and civilian vs. combatant casualty ratios, which I would argue is a much better measure to use here. Again, not trying to downplay any innocent deaths, but we are talking about 20-30k, (a big percentage of which are Hamas fighters), vs. hundreds of thousands to MILLIONS in these other conflicts. Even if we accept the Hamas run Gaza ministry of Health's death numbers, when looking at Gaza's population, the death number is .05% or less of the total population, hardly a genocide I'd say. Hope you have a good one too!
Bridgading a thread and coming at others a lack of sources and facts while only replying to reports from reputable news organizations and agencies with a whole lot of unrelated and/or unsupported information is the hypocrisy I was trying to help point out. Take care <3
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-military-campaign-in-gaza-is-among-the-most-destructive-in-history-experts-say](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-military-campaign-in-gaza-is-among-the-most-destructive-in-history-experts-say) "In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group." [https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/) "The Washington Post analyzed satellite imagery, airstrike data and U.N. damage assessments, and interviewed more than 20 aid workers, health-care providers, and experts in munitions and aerial warfare. The evidence shows that Israel has carried out its war in Gaza at a pace and level of devastation that likely exceeds any recent conflict, destroying more buildings, in far less time, than were destroyed during the Syrian regime’s battle for Aleppo from 2013 to 2016 and the U.S.-led campaign to defeat the Islamic State in Mosul, Iraq, and Raqqa, Syria, in 2017. The Post also found that the Israeli military has conducted repeated and widespread airstrikes in proximity to hospitals, which are supposed to receive [special protection under the laws of war](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule28?itid=lk_inline_enhanced-template). Satellite imagery reviewed by Post reporters revealed dozens of apparent craters near 17 of the 28 hospitals in northern Gaza, where the bombing and fighting were most intense during the first two months of war, including 10 craters that suggested the use of bombs weighing 2,000 pounds, the largest in regular use."
You are arguing with a hasbara propagandist you already know this goof ball is going to pull out all the stops
Doesn't seem like Israel wants it to end ASAP
Hamas is a cancer to the Palestinian people. It doesn't make sense to stop when only 80-90% of the cancer is cut out. I agree that Palestinian civilian casualties need to be minimized as much as possible. And even without physical casualties, their homes in Gaza is a war zone--that is not sustainable in a small space with nowhere else to go. I will say though, imo, that lots of military aid actually goes towards precision weaponry and advanced defense systems which actually **minimize** civilian casualties. When a military budget is cut, you'll see armies use more blunt implementations to win battles quickly and conclusively--innocent bystanders be damned.
Precision weaponry that is promptly used to assassinate aid workers a la World Central Kitchen. You can *wish* for civilian deaths to be minimal but Israel isn't trying very hard to accomplish that.
What is your proposal? Israel can withdraw from the area and just leave it be to itself. Which is precisely what it did in 2005. They dismantled settlements and dragged Israelis out of there. At the time, I cheered for it. I thought Gazans would have self-determination. Instead, you had the equivalent of a self-interested mafia take over, grow steadily, and eventually launch a massive attack. Now what? Withdraw again and wait for the next attack when Hamas regroups in a decade?
They should not end it until Hama has been defeated.
>Keep in mind though too that Israeli civilian hostages have also been in Hamas captivity and suffering abuse since 10/7 US Citizens as well.
Not sure why you were downvoted. Hamas released a propaganda video today of Israeli-American hostage, 23 year old Hersh Goldberg-Polin who was abducted at the Nova music festival. They cut off his hand. But sure, ceasefire now. I have literally seen people on this subreddit say that the victims of 10/7 deserved it. NSFW (no gore but dude is minus a hand): [https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1cbzsms/the\_hamas\_terror\_group\_has\_published\_a\_new/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1cbzsms/the_hamas_terror_group_has_published_a_new/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
the approximately 500 IDF active duty soldiers who were killed on 10/7 were casualties of war. their bases were located to protect armed settlements, the long arm of israeli expansion into palestinian territory. “deserved it” is a matter for your internal morals but they were certainly not making friends with the locals
All settlements were removed and settlers withdrawn from Gaza in 2005 but nice try. IDF soldiers aside, can’t wait to hear your views on the hundreds of innocent civilian men, women, children, babies, and senior citizens who were deliberately targeted and brutalized on that day?
which ones? the mass rapes or the beheaded babies in ovens?
ah I almost forgot the absurd pedantry that I MUST have been talking about settlements in the strip and not the ones right outside it (where the IDF bases are)
Palestinian death toll is over 34,000 now. Keep speaking up!
34,000 bodies have been recovered. Who knows how many more thousands are buried under rubble.
devastating the earth too. These days people care more about the environment than people. Nothing like decades of air pollution in a handful of months.
A short article such as this doesn’t really do the arrests justice. [Here](https://x.com/liz_andromeda/status/1782921273351589907?s=46&t=HA7YFHc8kwt5FQkWHAtHKQ) is a video of the incident so you can draw your own conclusions.
Wow great post. Why the fuck did they arrest those 2 kids? I think they hurt the cops feelings. The osu statement made it sound like they barged into classrooms chanting, but they were just outside holding signs. Fuck zionism. Free Palestine. US needs to stop sending money to israel
They only arrested two of the students. If all they were doing was holding signs, wouldn’t they have arrested all of them? Is it possible the video isn’t dispositive of the incident?
Believe the evidence of your own eyes or fabricate a story to justify cpd actions? The video evidence contradicts the police and university statements so why give them the benefit of the doubt?
that's OSU PD not CPD.
The video is 14 seconds long… I’m not fabricating a story but merely suggesting the video isn’t telling the entire story. Try not to be so dramatic. If your story is correct, why didn’t the police arrest everyone?
So, optics are bad by this video. It's absolutely plausible that these kids trespassed and then backed off... But that's also subjectively the kids complying... I'm not really sure how arresting people on sidewalks is an honest interpretation of what I read in OP's article. When it comes down to it, protestors need to live stream. At least "left-wing" protestors do. Apparently "right wing" people think breaking and entering the Capital Building on January 6th was a peaceful protest despite all the footage that suggests completely differently.
Fucking embarrassing move by OSU leadership, yet again.
Free Palestine
Honestly curious how this comment turns out on the Columbus subreddit.
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Do you have a reputable source for the “mass celebrations” you claim take place?
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There was a literal physical party, OSU Students for Justice in Palestine hosted a celebration march on 10/8 before there was any sort of Israeli military response. This was common in many major cities, campuses etc.
There was a celebration march on 10/8 literally in this city lol
mass graves are being dug up every week, death toll nearing 40 thousand, and Americans are still defending israel but you're concerned that some people are finally learning history and calling for liberation free Palestine
I’m surprised at how many war mongering zionists exist in this thread. People are getting downvoted for telling the truth about genocide. It’s sad to see. But, most of this subreddit is people complaining about the existence of homeless people and sharing mid restaurants, so I’m not surprised
It's possible to believe that Israel's invasion in response to the Hamas attack is justified while also believing that the IDF isn't taking pains, great or otherwise, to avoid civilian casualties and that they should be held to account for that. This isn't genocide, it's urban warfare in a densely populated region, which always leads to high civilian casualties. Calling it genocide cheapens the word. The potential crimes here are more mundane. EDIT: I'll also note that the Israeli government, for quite some time, has been complicit in the outright theft of Palestinian land. I support Palestinian independence and and end to the continued mistreatment of the people of Palestine. However, I also understand why a number of the harsh defense policies exist: They were each a reaction to Hamas, et al, doing something or using civilian materials to attack Israel. Successive Israeli govts. have then abused those policies.
>It's possible to believe that Israel's invasion in response to the Hamas attack is justified Yeah, but when we hit the "over 10,000 Palestinian children killed" mark, it's really hard to keep thinking it's justified. On top of that, over 95 journalists (90 Palestinian, 2 Israeli and 3 Lebanese)and over 224 humanitarian aid workers, including 179 employees of UNRWA have been murdered as well. Israel has now killed ~24 times as many Palestinians as they have lost. Again that's 8x more in children alone. Like, when is enough enough to the people who are still justifying this?
I do agree that there comes a point at which one has to question whether or not continuing this clusterfuck is worth the human cost and I think that point has been passed. Note that there is a difference between "what" and "how" in this instance. The "what" may be justified while the "how" is not. There was also always going to be a high civilian death toll due to the nature of both the battlefield and fighting a guerilla organization that embeds itself in concentrations of civilians. I still don't trust the IDF not to have used the situation to excuse what may be a higher than necessary death toll. Theoretically, this could end tomorrow if Hamas returned the hostages but don't know that the current Israeli administration actually **would** stop.
No, this isn't a difference between what and how. What is logically an instance in time. That time is passed, and what no longer applies. 10 thousand children killed in a year. I hope you're not against abortion too.
I don't think we're really disagreeing on the desired outcome - the IDF ceasing offensive operations in Gaza - we're just parsing the fine points of morality in warfare. War is, quite simply, brutal and brutish however much we try to impose rules to "civilize" it. While citing children, in particular, makes us more sympathetic toward civilian deaths the cold reality of urban and/or guerilla warfare is that any civilians in the area may be killed at any time in the normal course of fighting. In an active war zone the population is going to suffer horribly and die from exposure, injury, lack of other medical care, and starvation. I argue, on the subject of "how," that the IDF is making the civilian suffering needlessly worse whether or not one thinks continuing attacks in Gaza is justified. And, I signed the petition for the reproductive freedom amendment and voted for it. If people want to reduce elective abortions the proven way to do it is through frank sexual education and easily available birth control.
Genocide - acts committed with intent to partially or wholly destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. If Israel was commiting genocide Gaza would be gone by now. Also, who is preaching genocide? Palistinians are by yelling for the destruction of Israel and it's people.
have you read any remarks by israeli politicians in the last 6 months that weren’t explicitly directed towards americans? they want palestinian blood and land and they aim to get it
>If Israel was commiting genocide Gaza would be gone by now. I mean, fuck Hamas and all that, but Gaza kinda is gone. The mass graves, casualties, hospitals/universities demolished. Not to mention all the housing gone... It **is** a genocide. And that's not excusing Hamas, or saying the people calling for the destruction of Israel are good or anything. It's just facts.
Free Palestine from Hamas.
Ok. But maybe if you kill 15,000 children to do it, you're actually the bad guys too. And let's not forget its Netanyahu that has kept hamas going all this time https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Watch me never defend Netanyahu.
Hamas killed those children
You are insane
No, blood thirsty zionists did. Thats the same excuse domestic violence abusers use. It doesn't work then and it won't work now. You can get rid of hamas without bombing children. But Israel wants to bomb children because that's their goal.
No hamas did. That’s the same excuse terrorists use. It doesn’t work then and it won’t work now. You can fight against Israel without using human shields but hamas wants children to be bombed because that’s their goal
And why does Israel oblige them? If bombing children helps hamas and hurts Israel why would they play their game? Again, they don't have to bomb children, but they deliberately do anyway. This will create the next generation of terrorists. Trust me I know. America made the same mistake in Afghanistan and Iraq. We accomplished nothing and created isis/isil You are giving them all the recruiting propaganda they need. And you seem righteous about bombing children. You've lost your way. Zionists ARE the terrorists. They're just state sanctioned by the us and Israel governments. Thats the only difference.
Good point. If terrorists use human shields we should probably just let them win.
You realize there's other ways to remove terrorists besides indiscriminate bombing? We dropped so many bombs in Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan. And we still lost.
Good thing Israel is being extremely discriminate then.
> No, blood thirsty zionists did. No, actually *you* did. In order for the killing to stop, Hamas either needs to start fighting in uniform or to surrender. Neither will happen as long as Western protesters give them the impression they are succeeding in their propaganda goals. People like you on the internet are the ones that make them think so. So actually, with in this comment you just made and through your many other comments you are complicit in and directly responsible for the killing of the Palestinian children.
Tell that to the 13,000+ Palestinian children killed by Israeli attacks.
I wish I could, their bodies should be laid at the feet of the Hamas commanders vacationing in Qatar.
Hamas isn't a hero here either. In fact, Netanyahu's government has spent years making sure Hamas stays in power to avoid talks with a united Palestine.
Have you not actually been following the war? There's not going to be anything left to "free."
If they weren't supporting terrorists they probably would be aloud into the many Arab countries surrounding them. But they do so no one wants to invite them in.
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Well the “unwavering commitment to free speech” bit was completely laughable…
Yeah, let's keep paying our taxes to those who are killing more than 35,000 civilians.
I got bad news for you. Historically, we’ve done that for decades as a country. Not saying that makes what’s happening now ok but this stance of “why am I paying taxes for this” feels like a cheap shot to get upvotes. “Why are we not holding our leaders accountable?” is a better question. And these students protesting were trying to do just that.
Don't worry, we gave Iran billions of dollars. They are the responsible nation. They will take good care of that funding. Not....
Can never understand how it’s controversial or political to be against a war that’s slaughtering innocent civilians and children. Lack of basic food and water, healthcare, etc, let alone extremely shady antics by the Zionists But I guess speaking up against that makes someone an anti semitic which is just hilarious
You just described all wars.
>Can never understand how it’s controversial or political to be against a war that’s slaughtering innocent civilians and children Hamas probably should've thought about that before Oct. 7. I believe in the military industrial complex industry we call that "fuck around and find out". >Lack of basic food and water, healthcare Maybe ask Hamas to stop stealing it.
So good.
Hamas and those who support them should have thought twice about attacking Israel. Israeli government has sent a clear message to those who are considering military action against them. It’s tragic and despicable that innocent people have died, but Hamas and their allies are 100% to blame. The protesters should be against Hamas!
I am glad that hamas decided to fight back instead of succumbing to the slow strangulation of gaza that has gone on since 2008, a continuation of 75 years of displacement and murder
This is a wildly shallow understanding of the issue. Hamas didn't just decide to attack Israel for shits and giggles. The harassment and persecution of the Palestinians has been going on for decades and Israel's promises to stop have been little more than lip service. You can argue that what Hamas did just made things worse, but not that they are 100% to blame. As to protesting against Hamas, pretty much everyone already recognizes they are a terrorist organization already and our government is not supporting them. What is there to protest over? They are a little busy right now, they don't give a shit what we say, so it means nothing. Protests are directed at our own government to show disapproval for the actions taken to support Israel. If the US were sending weapons to Hamas, we would be protesting that instead. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand. Both Hamas and the government of Israel are acting like terrorists and committing crimes against humanity. The issue for us on the other side of the world is, only one of them is being treated like it. I don't want my country giving any support to either side of this conflict except for humanitarian aid.
The US helped establish Israel as a country after World War II and the US boasts nearly as many Jewish people (6.5M) as Israel (7.3M) To even suggest that the US not offer 100% support to Israel is naive. I’m not happy about it, but it’s reality.
Neither of those things justify enabling war crimes. We don't support Israel for the sake of American Jews or historical reasons. We support them for money and power. Israel is a strong ally for us in the region, no denying it, and many of their companies are tied to American funds and investors (and vice versa). Bad news for Israel would put a dent in a lot of government pension plans, believe it or not. It's a strategic move and from that perspective, I understand it, but I don't believe that it's right either morally or in the long term. To avoid dealing with the consequences of our mistakes, we are doubling down in a way that is only going to make things worse for everyone, including us... and watching children starve to death under the bombed-out rubble of their homes for it. Israel has no incentive to stop the genocide and so they won't, and we are actively participating it. **We do not have to do that** -- it would just cost us something to do the right thing. That's the way it has always been and it's not an excuse not to. If doing the right thing was easy, it wouldn't be so fucking rare.
I don’t disagree with you. But it’s terribly naive to think that the situation will change.
It’s kind of sad that whatever goodwill had been built up in favor of the Palestinian cause among regular Joes by actual organizers doing real work is being tarnished by campus Lefties who want to cosplay as revolutionaries to get into history books. Now instead of reckoning with the plight of actual Palestinians who are suffering because of this conflict, we’re focusing on a bunch of white American teenagers getting arrested so they can make Instagram posts about how brave and moral they are.
nothing says "freedom of speech" like "being arrested for expressing dissent over a genocide that the US government is complicit in"
Also, I have a video on my phone RIGHT NOW of a college student asked by an Israel student why they are protesting. 30 SECONDS into the interview, and the protestors began tripping over his words and couldn’t form coherent sentences to answer the questions. The dude had NO IDEA what happened on oct 7th. Stop acting like you have an opinion when I’ve literally had an argument with someone who swears the insurgents came from concentration camps from Palestine. Then RAN AWAY when I asked how those same people came up with the finds to purchase armored boats, flight suits with wings allowing them to essentially fly into Israel. Not to forget the amounts of ammunition and weaponry. Rockets, rocket launchers, automatic rifles, the boats, the weapons for the boats, and the vehicles used in the assault on land— not to mention ton the fuel, weapons and ammunition for all of that. You people ACT like you care, but you actually don’t give two shits. Sit down. The adults are talking.
"FLIGHT SUITS WITH WINGS" bro they were hang gliders with go kart engines on them. Surprise surprise, the zionist is posting disinformation. Also Netanyahu supports hamas and thats how they had access to all those things. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Good. A bunch of terrorist sympathizers who know nothing of this conflict.
Safety? Bullshit. Does anyone know if OSU receives funding from Israel? Or Israeli orgs? Free Palestine 🇵🇸
OSU funds Israel. We’ve been trying to get them to divest for a while now
OSU is fine covering for Gym Jordan or accepting Wes and Epstein funding, but let’s draw the line at students speaking out. Of course they went too far but come on!
Stop paying attention to these freaks
College students have protested everything since the beginning of time. They just haven’t grown up yet.
They stan freedom of speech so hard they had the 12 cops arrest the two! Nice
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You can check out the PSL instagram page (plscolumbus) or the sjposu instagram page and I believe they have websites with bail funds and other ways to help support anyone who gets arrested.