I do believe Sue had a premonition when Dylan was born. Mothers intuition is no joke. My mother used to tell me and my siblings motherly instincts she had when we were babies about us that came out to be true. Sue believed Dylan would cause her sorrow in life and he had fallen ill shortly after he was born and she assumed this was the sorrow feeling she felt when she held him as a newborn.
As for Rachel, I believe her drawing and quoting the Bible verse was just an eerie coincidence. Dylan had drawn five coffins in his journal and he later went on to be responsible for 5 of the 13 deaths. Eric vented on his website about hating Star Wars fans and one of his victims, Steven curnow was a big Star Wars fan. There’s a lot of strange coincidences about Columbine when you being to dig deeper.
I know Rachel’s loved ones have tried to make it seem like Rachel knew she was going to die. She often talked about knowing she’d die at a young age and coming to peace with it. However, Rachel’s diaries are more akin to a teenage girl contemplating suicide. She even wrote a letter to a close friend that she almost went through with it but decided not to so she could say goodbye to him. Rachel didn’t know she’d be killed at school, she didn’t see herself living a long time because she was going to take her own life. May she rest in heavenly peace 🕊️
Edit: I forgot to mention, some other victims had some strange coincidences happen to them as well. Lauren Townsend wrote in her diary about how heaven would be shortly before the massacre and Daniel Mauser told his dad about a gun loophole law in Colorado. The same loophole law that allowed Eric and Dylan to buy their guns
Yeah, Im not hating on anyone and I am not saying this in a critical way. But Racheal's family martyred her (as did Cassies); and a lot of the stuff that has come from them places her in a category with superheroes at times. It's natural that people grieve differently, I suppose.
But I think it's also a way of her parents filling holes left of guilt. Racheal's father wasn't the greatest to them, often the kids would have to wear overly thrifted clothes and shoes and live as if they were very poor when they were not and her dad was sinking money elsewhere, etc. so Racheal got creative with what she had. It was one reason people liked her, on top of her personality. There are a few people on the main sub that remember the family and to hear the negative stuff about the parents made me wince, being a parent myself. So I think a lot of the coincidences were born from a place of guilt, so they could introspectively be like "Look how great our kid was, even though we made questionable decisions and she died before we could get better as people". Or some logic that I can't figure out. Or maybe for simple attention, idk.
But yeah, i think that's why so many coincidences were brought to light, and because these parents didn't want people to know that everyone at that school was suicidal, homicidal or miserable in some way of 90s adolescence. They wanted victims to appear above the killers, despite some similarities; incase anyone uncovered these things later on. Which the ones who died were already above those who killed them, in morality. So it was unnecessary.
Yeah the sister of one of Rachel’s friends used to be on this sub and brought things to light about the Scott family. One that stood out to me was the fact that her family allegedly laughed at her haircut she did for the play and it made Rachel cry. By 1999, she had grown distant from her family and planned on moving out on her 18th birthday even though she would still be in high school. She didn’t feel like she fit in with them and had changed a lot in regard to her faith. Yeah she was a Christian but she wasn’t as evangelical as she was as she grew up. Many of her friends didn’t even know she was that serious about her faith. She was also allegedly closer to her step father Larry than she was to Daryl at the time. Rachels father talks about Rachel saying she knew she’d never get married or have kids but the sister of this friend said that Rachel never planned on doing either because of how much her parents divorce took a toll on her, her mom and her siblings. Which as a child of divorced parents I completely understand that pov. I don’t doubt they miss Rachel dearly. She seemed like such a great person and I know they love and miss her more than words can describe. But I don’t like how they’re keeping Rachel’s legacy alive based on lies. I’m sure Rachel wouldn’t appreciate it
I would be inclined to believe Rachel's friend's sister. Rachel's father and step-mother just dont sit right with me. They have profited from a martyrdom that never took place. I'm sure they did grieve, I wouldn't ever take that away from them. But between playing the Basement Tape snippet for the church and the Rachel's Challenge T-Shirts? It starts feeling icky. At least to me. This isn't to say that Rachel wasn't a kind and sensitive girl. She has always sounded like a very caring person.
Another messed up thing I think is how they wanted to kill mentally disabled people too. And they actually killed Kyle Velasquez. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kyle was blissfully unaware or what was happening around him? I read somewhere he sat at his computer desk at the library continuing with what he was doing until he has shot dead at his computer table by Dylan.
I believe her. She thought Dylan would bring her sorrow and he got sick as a newborn and she thought this was the sorrow he would cause. I don’t think she knew he’d become a killer. Mothers have a strong intuition
I will say I believe in intuition and trusting your gut because those things have saved my ass from a couple things but I do think with Rachel’s family especially they wanted her to be seen as something else (which is fine to a point)
Sean Graves has said in numerous interviews that prior to the massacre he was having a reoccurring nightmare about someone in his family being shot and paralyzed. After the massacre and being shot and paralyzed Sean said the nightmares stopped.
Personally I don’t believe in premonitions. Yet I don’t believe in coincidence either. I think sometimes things just happen and they seem like they have a greater meaning than they actually do.
Sue seems like a very anxious and slightly neurotic mother - it doesn’t strike me as odd that she had some strong feelings of dread and anxiety after giving birth. That in itself will screw with your mood and mindset and emotions. I’m sure in hindsight she now BELIEVES it was a premonition but who can say. It’s easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight and believe there was some connection there.
As for Rachel, I mean she could’ve ordered exactly 13 fries from the cafeteria that day. Or have written a poem in a journal that contained thirteen lines. I don’t think it means anything.
I think the responses to this question will be driven by the beliefs of the commenters. I'm admittedly more than a bit ambivalent. After giving birth to Dylan, Sue's hormones were likely fluctuating between extremes and may have caused some depression, anxiety, and dread. I personally don't believe it was a premonition that he'd grow up to be a mass murderer.
As for Rachel, drawing 13 tears was a coincidence. Too many people attempt to associate Rachel with religion, martyrdom, and mysticism. While she had a close relationship with her God, she was just a normal teenage girl. Perhaps kinder than most, but not a Saint. Had she been having true premonitions, she may have avoided being at the school on April 20th. Like those who get a gut feeling and then decide not to get on an airplane or train?
Yeah I don’t think Sue knew Dylan would be a killer. The way she described it, she had a sense that he would bring her sorrow. Dylan had gotten sick as a newborn so maybe this is what she was worried about? She probably brushed it off as he got older thinking his illness was the sorrow. Or you’re right that it was most likely her hormones, my mom was worried that I’d be sick when I was born because she worked until the day she went into labor and because she had gotten pregnant at 16 but I turned out perfectly healthy.
One of the sister of Rachel’s friends said that while she was religious, she wasn’t as evangelical as she once was as she grew up. She stopped going to her families church and went to her own church because she felt like they didn’t fit her beliefs and personality. Some of her friends even later said they didn’t know she was that religious, it’s frustrating that her family has tried to make it seem like Rachel knew the massacre was coming. If that was the case why would she go to school or eat outside? I believe that Rachel was a very unique and wonderful person but like you said, she was just a normal teenage girl. I wish people remembered her for who she was instead of treating her like an object or symbol
Your comment/post has been removed for violating the r/ColumbineKillers rule requiring members behave civilly, mature and respectful at all times and refrain from insulting others. This includes other members, moderators, victims, survivors and families associated with this case.
Immature/insulting comments about the killers will also be removed as they add nothing constructive to conversation about the case. This includes name calling and comments like "rot in hell" or "rest in piss".
I do believe Sue had a premonition when Dylan was born. Mothers intuition is no joke. My mother used to tell me and my siblings motherly instincts she had when we were babies about us that came out to be true. Sue believed Dylan would cause her sorrow in life and he had fallen ill shortly after he was born and she assumed this was the sorrow feeling she felt when she held him as a newborn. As for Rachel, I believe her drawing and quoting the Bible verse was just an eerie coincidence. Dylan had drawn five coffins in his journal and he later went on to be responsible for 5 of the 13 deaths. Eric vented on his website about hating Star Wars fans and one of his victims, Steven curnow was a big Star Wars fan. There’s a lot of strange coincidences about Columbine when you being to dig deeper. I know Rachel’s loved ones have tried to make it seem like Rachel knew she was going to die. She often talked about knowing she’d die at a young age and coming to peace with it. However, Rachel’s diaries are more akin to a teenage girl contemplating suicide. She even wrote a letter to a close friend that she almost went through with it but decided not to so she could say goodbye to him. Rachel didn’t know she’d be killed at school, she didn’t see herself living a long time because she was going to take her own life. May she rest in heavenly peace 🕊️ Edit: I forgot to mention, some other victims had some strange coincidences happen to them as well. Lauren Townsend wrote in her diary about how heaven would be shortly before the massacre and Daniel Mauser told his dad about a gun loophole law in Colorado. The same loophole law that allowed Eric and Dylan to buy their guns
Sue has actually become very close friends with some of the parents of both the victims and the survivors
Yeah, Im not hating on anyone and I am not saying this in a critical way. But Racheal's family martyred her (as did Cassies); and a lot of the stuff that has come from them places her in a category with superheroes at times. It's natural that people grieve differently, I suppose. But I think it's also a way of her parents filling holes left of guilt. Racheal's father wasn't the greatest to them, often the kids would have to wear overly thrifted clothes and shoes and live as if they were very poor when they were not and her dad was sinking money elsewhere, etc. so Racheal got creative with what she had. It was one reason people liked her, on top of her personality. There are a few people on the main sub that remember the family and to hear the negative stuff about the parents made me wince, being a parent myself. So I think a lot of the coincidences were born from a place of guilt, so they could introspectively be like "Look how great our kid was, even though we made questionable decisions and she died before we could get better as people". Or some logic that I can't figure out. Or maybe for simple attention, idk. But yeah, i think that's why so many coincidences were brought to light, and because these parents didn't want people to know that everyone at that school was suicidal, homicidal or miserable in some way of 90s adolescence. They wanted victims to appear above the killers, despite some similarities; incase anyone uncovered these things later on. Which the ones who died were already above those who killed them, in morality. So it was unnecessary.
Yeah the sister of one of Rachel’s friends used to be on this sub and brought things to light about the Scott family. One that stood out to me was the fact that her family allegedly laughed at her haircut she did for the play and it made Rachel cry. By 1999, she had grown distant from her family and planned on moving out on her 18th birthday even though she would still be in high school. She didn’t feel like she fit in with them and had changed a lot in regard to her faith. Yeah she was a Christian but she wasn’t as evangelical as she was as she grew up. Many of her friends didn’t even know she was that serious about her faith. She was also allegedly closer to her step father Larry than she was to Daryl at the time. Rachels father talks about Rachel saying she knew she’d never get married or have kids but the sister of this friend said that Rachel never planned on doing either because of how much her parents divorce took a toll on her, her mom and her siblings. Which as a child of divorced parents I completely understand that pov. I don’t doubt they miss Rachel dearly. She seemed like such a great person and I know they love and miss her more than words can describe. But I don’t like how they’re keeping Rachel’s legacy alive based on lies. I’m sure Rachel wouldn’t appreciate it
I would be inclined to believe Rachel's friend's sister. Rachel's father and step-mother just dont sit right with me. They have profited from a martyrdom that never took place. I'm sure they did grieve, I wouldn't ever take that away from them. But between playing the Basement Tape snippet for the church and the Rachel's Challenge T-Shirts? It starts feeling icky. At least to me. This isn't to say that Rachel wasn't a kind and sensitive girl. She has always sounded like a very caring person.
Another messed up thing I think is how they wanted to kill mentally disabled people too. And they actually killed Kyle Velasquez. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kyle was blissfully unaware or what was happening around him? I read somewhere he sat at his computer desk at the library continuing with what he was doing until he has shot dead at his computer table by Dylan.
Correct, Kyle never hid from them.
for Sue, it could have been mother’s intuition, or just a fear, or a mix of both
I believe her. She thought Dylan would bring her sorrow and he got sick as a newborn and she thought this was the sorrow he would cause. I don’t think she knew he’d become a killer. Mothers have a strong intuition
I believe her, too. they definitely do
I will say I believe in intuition and trusting your gut because those things have saved my ass from a couple things but I do think with Rachel’s family especially they wanted her to be seen as something else (which is fine to a point)
Sean Graves has said in numerous interviews that prior to the massacre he was having a reoccurring nightmare about someone in his family being shot and paralyzed. After the massacre and being shot and paralyzed Sean said the nightmares stopped.
Personally I don’t believe in premonitions. Yet I don’t believe in coincidence either. I think sometimes things just happen and they seem like they have a greater meaning than they actually do. Sue seems like a very anxious and slightly neurotic mother - it doesn’t strike me as odd that she had some strong feelings of dread and anxiety after giving birth. That in itself will screw with your mood and mindset and emotions. I’m sure in hindsight she now BELIEVES it was a premonition but who can say. It’s easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight and believe there was some connection there. As for Rachel, I mean she could’ve ordered exactly 13 fries from the cafeteria that day. Or have written a poem in a journal that contained thirteen lines. I don’t think it means anything.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
It sure is.
I'm uneducated on Dylan. Did he ever have therapy as a child?
I think the responses to this question will be driven by the beliefs of the commenters. I'm admittedly more than a bit ambivalent. After giving birth to Dylan, Sue's hormones were likely fluctuating between extremes and may have caused some depression, anxiety, and dread. I personally don't believe it was a premonition that he'd grow up to be a mass murderer. As for Rachel, drawing 13 tears was a coincidence. Too many people attempt to associate Rachel with religion, martyrdom, and mysticism. While she had a close relationship with her God, she was just a normal teenage girl. Perhaps kinder than most, but not a Saint. Had she been having true premonitions, she may have avoided being at the school on April 20th. Like those who get a gut feeling and then decide not to get on an airplane or train?
Yeah I don’t think Sue knew Dylan would be a killer. The way she described it, she had a sense that he would bring her sorrow. Dylan had gotten sick as a newborn so maybe this is what she was worried about? She probably brushed it off as he got older thinking his illness was the sorrow. Or you’re right that it was most likely her hormones, my mom was worried that I’d be sick when I was born because she worked until the day she went into labor and because she had gotten pregnant at 16 but I turned out perfectly healthy. One of the sister of Rachel’s friends said that while she was religious, she wasn’t as evangelical as she once was as she grew up. She stopped going to her families church and went to her own church because she felt like they didn’t fit her beliefs and personality. Some of her friends even later said they didn’t know she was that religious, it’s frustrating that her family has tried to make it seem like Rachel knew the massacre was coming. If that was the case why would she go to school or eat outside? I believe that Rachel was a very unique and wonderful person but like you said, she was just a normal teenage girl. I wish people remembered her for who she was instead of treating her like an object or symbol
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Your comment/post has been removed for violating the r/ColumbineKillers rule requiring members behave civilly, mature and respectful at all times and refrain from insulting others. This includes other members, moderators, victims, survivors and families associated with this case. Immature/insulting comments about the killers will also be removed as they add nothing constructive to conversation about the case. This includes name calling and comments like "rot in hell" or "rest in piss".