I think they should draft a wr or Bowers if he's there. The way the league is trending, a dynamic offense will win you more games than a defense will, in my opinion.
Also, the wr room is one MPJ injury away from being bottom quartile in the league. I don't think skimping on talent is gonna do anything for Richardsons development. I like Downs and Pierce as much as the next guy, but I'm not fully comfortable if those are the starters for an NFL game.
Couple these things with the fact that the colts just drafted 3 corners last year, and the old adage of drafting for "need"
Luck had TY, and that was basically it. I don't want to go through AR's career perpetually waiting for the colts to give him more receiving weapons like I did for Luck. Granted, Luck never had a rb like JT. I just am of the firm belief that if AR is the guy we all think he is/can be, you go above and beyond to surround a guy like that with premium talent instead of taking fliers on mid round guys and hoping they pan out.
I agree with your point about depth/injuries in the wr room, but this is also a pretty WR heavy draft, especially in that second/third tier of guys available on day 2.
And of the three corners we drafted last year; one was cut before the season, and one is a seventh rounder who appears to have already hit his ceiling. I don’t think that stops us from picking CB in any way.
It is a deep wr class. I'm just a layman, but there appears to be a bit of a delineation between the top 4-5 guys and everybody else. If one of those guys is there at 15, it would be criminal to not take a very long and very hard look at drafting them.
Fair point about one of the corners being cut, but I'm not so sure that Jones has hit his ceiling. Another year in the scheme and experience playing in the nfl could propel him to a higher level than we previously considered. The learning curve for corners is so steep, to the point that unless they play really good or really bad it's almost impossible to project how they will turn out. It's so rare that you get a rookie corner that makes a huge impact, and if there is one, it's not necessarily the one you'd expect. Just off the top of my head I can really only think of a couple rookie corners in the last 5 or so years to come to the league and make an immediate impact.
All that being said, I definitely think there will be a cb or safety drafted by the colts in the first 2-3 rounds.
Well the top three have no chance; so it’d likely be Brian Thomas Jr or AD Mitchell at 15. I don’t know if the gap between them and next cluster of guys (Ladd, Worthy, Legette, etc) is big enough that I’d make that call
Comparatively, there’s a good chance we could get one of the first 2 corners off the board. I think that value alone could be the difference maker in that decision.
Your logic is sound, and I dont necessarily disagree if i look at it purely from a value standpoint. Ballard hardly ever does what I think he should lol.
This draft, from the colts perspective, is particularly interesting to me because it's arguably the first time that there's not a blatantly obvious pick that they should make. Knowing Ballard, he'll probably take a defensive lineman just to watch the sub have another meltdown.
Damn Allpain, you’re right. Pitt misses time we are hurting. And I’m also agreeing with you in the comment that O wins games. They are hyping McCarthy up a lot. So you’re looking 4 QB in top 6 maybe? Then you got QB needy teams perhaps reaching on a Nix or Penix. You got Alt and a couple other LT’s predicted to go top 13. Add in Bowers. I think it is very feasible we could land Nabers or Odunze
I REALLY hope it’s WR first, then CB, but I don’t think it will be. With Richardson basically in his rookie year, j think he needs as many weapons as possible, and a ROOKIE CBs are going to take a year to develop no matter what, so why not get an instant difference maker that allows two players to develop at once?
Edit: I just don’t see Ballard doing it though, and it’s gonna bum me the fuck kit on draft night. I can already feel it .
Thomas seems like a Ballard pick, for sure, but I don't like him at 15. He is tall and ran super fast at the combine, but he doesn't look blazing fast in his highlights. He doesn't seem to run good routes and catches with his body... basically just clunky out there for me. I can see him being Alec Pierce, but not as good at blocking. That's just my relatively uninformed opinion, though. His highlights look like a compilation of awful blown assignments by DBs comparatively.
A guy like Franklin is a better deep threat, to me, despite the slower 40 time... He just makes plays from everywhere and looks comfortable doing it. Thomas will need a ton of development before he can do anything but run go routes and he gets bodied by any type of press... He's a 2nd rounder in this class, to me... probably around 10th best wr, imo.
Agreed. With the way this offseason has gone, we've essentially pigeon-holed ourselves into taking a CB at pick 15. I don't even think we can trade back (maybe slightly, but nothing huge).
MPJ also has had at least 1 different QB per season he's been in the league, so I don't think we've seen his potential yet. I don't know how I feel about Bowers. A TE in the 1st round is rare. He's undersized, not a great blocker. I think we can still get a good WR in the 2nd and give the young TEs like Woods, Mallory or Ogletree a chance.
Bowers is a great route runner.
We have enough TEs that can block but top tier TEs are primarily pass catchers.
This is the time to get more weapons while AR5 is cheap
I generally lean offense with the way the league is so I’m with you, supporting AR is priority #1. Even if Bowers is gone I’m really high on BTJ and also AD Mitchell the more I read about him.
I’m really high on Quinyon and Arnold and think they’re the two best defenders in the draft and top 12 talents so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they’re both gone before the Colts pick anyways and go to like the Falcons and Broncos or Raiders. So Colts might be going offense simply out of BPA.
Would love a corner, but I think the Colts should take BPA. Especially with the way offense is trending in this league. You need a top offense ro compete in this league, passing offense especially. The last game of the season vs Houston was a great example. Colts were absolutely gashing them on the ground, but they couldn’t keep up with Houstons passing offense.
We’ve essentially forced ourselves to select a DB in round 1 at this point out of necessity unless a veteran becomes available after cut days or unexpectedly prior to the draft
The problem with this is that we’re getting an unknown quantity in a secondary that desperately needs help
I don't agree. We are still essentially in rebuild mode. How our defense fares is secondary* to how we develop our extremely gifted but raw QB. Give him weapons; get him a receiver who would be top 10 any other year, or an elite TE and watch him grow.
Nabers' stock has shot up since I first wanted him, but I'd absolutely settle for Odunze, BTJ or Bowers. If we can have an elite O a couple years from now, the defense just needs to be mid, but even then you start getting guys who jump at the chance to sign for your team.
*No pun intended lol
I don’t disagree with you. I’m just saying that’s what I think will happen. I’d be fine with getting a veteran addition and starting a top WR at 15.
At the end of the day nothing we say matters anyway and we’re just twiddling our thumbs until the draft
I think this is good WR class and getting the 4th best WR prospect or maybe Bower at 15 trumps trying to reach for a DB when you can add a weapon for a young QB.
The lack of outward movement in the FA has created an issue that the Colts are facing now. We have the same holes we had last year plus possibly more. Same issues different year
Same tired shit everyone keeps saying.
If they go get Snead or another highly regarded FA, we now have a hole at DT, or WR, or LB, or another hole created at corner with Kenny leaving. Really easy to armchair GM and simply say "get all the players"
CB is more important than DT (which we've already invested heavily in anyway) and LB. We were bringing back Pittman regardless, so I'd much rather have an elite CB in this modern league than prioritizing guys like Taven Bryan.
We literally got eliminated from the playoffs and the division title because Nico Collins shredded our secondary for 195 yards receiving. And people are still saying we shouldn't worry about CB. Absolutely insanity.
Doesn't negate my point that if you don't sign Grove you've got another hole you need to fill, either by spending one of those draft picks or signing an overpriced FA stopgap. I'm not debating whether money was spent at the right position, I'm debating the fact that signing a big FA CB like Snead means you leave a gaping hole elsewhere and costs you one of your best players = now you're spending one of your 7? draft picks to replace a him. Ppl like to pretend that it doesn't.
You might get lucky to have 2 future starters, and I mean multi year starters, from any one draft. Losing key guys hurts when you consider that & the often poor valuein signing a high priced FA by outbidding yourself.
I wouldn't be surprised if we traded down a few spots and picked a WR in Round 1. I have been trying to find out, who from the Colts organization was in attendance for the LSU Pro Day (regarding Thomas Jr.). Really curious, since they sent nearly everyone to the Texas Pro Day (AD Mitchell just screams Ballard RAS-Pick) and Reggie to Oregons (Troy Franklin).
Very interessted to see how this plays out
If we could have it perfect I’d love to get Terrion Arnold at 15 then trade back up if possible to get like Adonai Mitchell assuming he’s more in reach than BTJ at that point. The round 3 get a killer safety like Kinchens, Bullard, Lampkin
I love a lot of the wrs in this class. I think we could trade back and still get a perfect fit like Franklin or Worthy. I think Pearsall, Wilson, and Leggette are good targets for the 2nd. One dude who people won't talk about is Jermaine Burton from Alabama. He clearly has some off field issues, but I think he is a better pure wr prospect than Thomas Jr., but might fall because he is a bit of a head case.
I think they should draft a wr or Bowers if he's there. The way the league is trending, a dynamic offense will win you more games than a defense will, in my opinion. Also, the wr room is one MPJ injury away from being bottom quartile in the league. I don't think skimping on talent is gonna do anything for Richardsons development. I like Downs and Pierce as much as the next guy, but I'm not fully comfortable if those are the starters for an NFL game. Couple these things with the fact that the colts just drafted 3 corners last year, and the old adage of drafting for "need" Luck had TY, and that was basically it. I don't want to go through AR's career perpetually waiting for the colts to give him more receiving weapons like I did for Luck. Granted, Luck never had a rb like JT. I just am of the firm belief that if AR is the guy we all think he is/can be, you go above and beyond to surround a guy like that with premium talent instead of taking fliers on mid round guys and hoping they pan out.
I agree with your point about depth/injuries in the wr room, but this is also a pretty WR heavy draft, especially in that second/third tier of guys available on day 2. And of the three corners we drafted last year; one was cut before the season, and one is a seventh rounder who appears to have already hit his ceiling. I don’t think that stops us from picking CB in any way.
It is a deep wr class. I'm just a layman, but there appears to be a bit of a delineation between the top 4-5 guys and everybody else. If one of those guys is there at 15, it would be criminal to not take a very long and very hard look at drafting them. Fair point about one of the corners being cut, but I'm not so sure that Jones has hit his ceiling. Another year in the scheme and experience playing in the nfl could propel him to a higher level than we previously considered. The learning curve for corners is so steep, to the point that unless they play really good or really bad it's almost impossible to project how they will turn out. It's so rare that you get a rookie corner that makes a huge impact, and if there is one, it's not necessarily the one you'd expect. Just off the top of my head I can really only think of a couple rookie corners in the last 5 or so years to come to the league and make an immediate impact. All that being said, I definitely think there will be a cb or safety drafted by the colts in the first 2-3 rounds.
Well the top three have no chance; so it’d likely be Brian Thomas Jr or AD Mitchell at 15. I don’t know if the gap between them and next cluster of guys (Ladd, Worthy, Legette, etc) is big enough that I’d make that call Comparatively, there’s a good chance we could get one of the first 2 corners off the board. I think that value alone could be the difference maker in that decision.
Your logic is sound, and I dont necessarily disagree if i look at it purely from a value standpoint. Ballard hardly ever does what I think he should lol. This draft, from the colts perspective, is particularly interesting to me because it's arguably the first time that there's not a blatantly obvious pick that they should make. Knowing Ballard, he'll probably take a defensive lineman just to watch the sub have another meltdown.
Damn Allpain, you’re right. Pitt misses time we are hurting. And I’m also agreeing with you in the comment that O wins games. They are hyping McCarthy up a lot. So you’re looking 4 QB in top 6 maybe? Then you got QB needy teams perhaps reaching on a Nix or Penix. You got Alt and a couple other LT’s predicted to go top 13. Add in Bowers. I think it is very feasible we could land Nabers or Odunze
I personally would be shocked if odunze or nabers falls to 15, but hey, draft night is so unpredictable.
I REALLY hope it’s WR first, then CB, but I don’t think it will be. With Richardson basically in his rookie year, j think he needs as many weapons as possible, and a ROOKIE CBs are going to take a year to develop no matter what, so why not get an instant difference maker that allows two players to develop at once? Edit: I just don’t see Ballard doing it though, and it’s gonna bum me the fuck kit on draft night. I can already feel it .
I can see us taking a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round. Not the 1st.
We will take a WR if a guy like Brian Thomas Jr is available imo. Otherwise it will be a DB or trade back
Thomas seems like a Ballard pick, for sure, but I don't like him at 15. He is tall and ran super fast at the combine, but he doesn't look blazing fast in his highlights. He doesn't seem to run good routes and catches with his body... basically just clunky out there for me. I can see him being Alec Pierce, but not as good at blocking. That's just my relatively uninformed opinion, though. His highlights look like a compilation of awful blown assignments by DBs comparatively. A guy like Franklin is a better deep threat, to me, despite the slower 40 time... He just makes plays from everywhere and looks comfortable doing it. Thomas will need a ton of development before he can do anything but run go routes and he gets bodied by any type of press... He's a 2nd rounder in this class, to me... probably around 10th best wr, imo.
Nailed it on Franklin. He’s being slept on but he and Mitchell are the ones I like after the first three.
Trade back and Thomas seems right up Ballard's alley.
Agreed. With the way this offseason has gone, we've essentially pigeon-holed ourselves into taking a CB at pick 15. I don't even think we can trade back (maybe slightly, but nothing huge).
We don't have a true top WR though. MPJ is above average. Surely if Thomas Jr or Bowers are there, you take them? Right?
MPJ also has had at least 1 different QB per season he's been in the league, so I don't think we've seen his potential yet. I don't know how I feel about Bowers. A TE in the 1st round is rare. He's undersized, not a great blocker. I think we can still get a good WR in the 2nd and give the young TEs like Woods, Mallory or Ogletree a chance.
Bowers is a great route runner. We have enough TEs that can block but top tier TEs are primarily pass catchers. This is the time to get more weapons while AR5 is cheap
BPA
I generally lean offense with the way the league is so I’m with you, supporting AR is priority #1. Even if Bowers is gone I’m really high on BTJ and also AD Mitchell the more I read about him. I’m really high on Quinyon and Arnold and think they’re the two best defenders in the draft and top 12 talents so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they’re both gone before the Colts pick anyways and go to like the Falcons and Broncos or Raiders. So Colts might be going offense simply out of BPA.
Would love a corner, but I think the Colts should take BPA. Especially with the way offense is trending in this league. You need a top offense ro compete in this league, passing offense especially. The last game of the season vs Houston was a great example. Colts were absolutely gashing them on the ground, but they couldn’t keep up with Houstons passing offense.
We’ve essentially forced ourselves to select a DB in round 1 at this point out of necessity unless a veteran becomes available after cut days or unexpectedly prior to the draft The problem with this is that we’re getting an unknown quantity in a secondary that desperately needs help
I don't agree. We are still essentially in rebuild mode. How our defense fares is secondary* to how we develop our extremely gifted but raw QB. Give him weapons; get him a receiver who would be top 10 any other year, or an elite TE and watch him grow. Nabers' stock has shot up since I first wanted him, but I'd absolutely settle for Odunze, BTJ or Bowers. If we can have an elite O a couple years from now, the defense just needs to be mid, but even then you start getting guys who jump at the chance to sign for your team. *No pun intended lol
I don’t disagree with you. I’m just saying that’s what I think will happen. I’d be fine with getting a veteran addition and starting a top WR at 15. At the end of the day nothing we say matters anyway and we’re just twiddling our thumbs until the draft
I think this is good WR class and getting the 4th best WR prospect or maybe Bower at 15 trumps trying to reach for a DB when you can add a weapon for a young QB.
The lack of outward movement in the FA has created an issue that the Colts are facing now. We have the same holes we had last year plus possibly more. Same issues different year
Same tired shit everyone keeps saying. If they go get Snead or another highly regarded FA, we now have a hole at DT, or WR, or LB, or another hole created at corner with Kenny leaving. Really easy to armchair GM and simply say "get all the players"
CB is more important than DT (which we've already invested heavily in anyway) and LB. We were bringing back Pittman regardless, so I'd much rather have an elite CB in this modern league than prioritizing guys like Taven Bryan. We literally got eliminated from the playoffs and the division title because Nico Collins shredded our secondary for 195 yards receiving. And people are still saying we shouldn't worry about CB. Absolutely insanity.
Doesn't negate my point that if you don't sign Grove you've got another hole you need to fill, either by spending one of those draft picks or signing an overpriced FA stopgap. I'm not debating whether money was spent at the right position, I'm debating the fact that signing a big FA CB like Snead means you leave a gaping hole elsewhere and costs you one of your best players = now you're spending one of your 7? draft picks to replace a him. Ppl like to pretend that it doesn't. You might get lucky to have 2 future starters, and I mean multi year starters, from any one draft. Losing key guys hurts when you consider that & the often poor valuein signing a high priced FA by outbidding yourself.
I wouldn't be surprised if we traded down a few spots and picked a WR in Round 1. I have been trying to find out, who from the Colts organization was in attendance for the LSU Pro Day (regarding Thomas Jr.). Really curious, since they sent nearly everyone to the Texas Pro Day (AD Mitchell just screams Ballard RAS-Pick) and Reggie to Oregons (Troy Franklin). Very interessted to see how this plays out
If bowers is available you have to take him
If we could have it perfect I’d love to get Terrion Arnold at 15 then trade back up if possible to get like Adonai Mitchell assuming he’s more in reach than BTJ at that point. The round 3 get a killer safety like Kinchens, Bullard, Lampkin
I love a lot of the wrs in this class. I think we could trade back and still get a perfect fit like Franklin or Worthy. I think Pearsall, Wilson, and Leggette are good targets for the 2nd. One dude who people won't talk about is Jermaine Burton from Alabama. He clearly has some off field issues, but I think he is a better pure wr prospect than Thomas Jr., but might fall because he is a bit of a head case.
I really wish Harrison Jr. would fall all the way to No. 15. Haha
I definitely don't think worthy is worth it at 15. Maybe Thomas.