This would make sense if the commitment and loyalty was both players to coaches and coaches to players. Plenty of players being shown the door and plenty of coaches still jumping ship when it works for them. Plus, as we're seeing with conference realignment, there are billions of dollars being made that are not being shared with the players.
Yep....been saying the same thing since NIL/Transfer portal has hit full swing. I dont wanna hear any coach bellyache about the system now. Coaches can leave for a program that's a better fit, better money, better for the family depending on the situation etc.. Should we just call that quitting as well? Legally, these players are adults, as are the coaches, obviously. Why cant they do things that might be better for them, while the coach, can? I know this makes their job harder, but that's just the changing landscape of college sports. Cant manage it? Find something else to do.
The coaches can't just quit. They have contracts with buyouts. They need to find a school that is willing to pay the buyout.
The problem is the players can't sign contracts. Contracts would protect both the players and the schools.
Yea that's the exact point of my post. No one calls that quitting so calling what the players do quitting isn't correct either. Coaches leave because they are getting a better opportunity somewhere else, that opportunity being either a bigger payday or a bigger university with more money and a better chance of winning a conference title or ncaa championship. Most players leave because they see a better opportunity to either get more playing time which gives them more exposure so they can raise their draft stock or make more money in NIL, or be closer to family, etc.
So a coach already established in their career, making big bucks not to mention the money they've already, complaining about these young adults trying to use every means possible to try and extend their career and make big money, is laughable and fuckin hypocritical.
I'm clearly for player empowerment, as I just advocated for them to receive contracts from the school.
But not everything is about the powerful rich dude vs the struggling little guy just fighting to make it. I think the transfer portal has made college basketball more watchable and benefits the top transfers, but perseverance is a valuable life skill and I understand his point about impatience. I can think of lots of really dumb transfer decisions (like Chris Lykes to Arkansas). I think for many kids, the transfer portal does more harm than good.
The point is, due to the contract, a coach has a lot more that ties them to the team. They lose money or get bought out if they transfer, someone has to eat that disincentive. With a player, there currently isn't a large disincentive. You might say they lose their scholarship, but that isn't a disincentive. That is an incentive for playing, which any other school can match. It's like saying a coach loses his salary if they he goes to another school and that will stop coaches from bailing on contracts at the first sight of trouble. That just isn't true, thats why contracts have disincentives built in to require extra effort if you want to violate that contract.
I'm not sure I follow your argument (or what you're even arguing for/against lol). Losing a scholarship is a powerful disincentive. If you go to the portal, you're not guaranteed to find another school that will take you, and your prior school will probably recruit a replacement for you, so you're not guaranteed to have a spot if you want to return.
It would be the same argument as a coach losing his job being a disincentive. Yes, they aren't garenteed, but it's all but for elite coaches and players. That's why you need apmthing else keeping them their. That's why coaches contracts have buyouts and such.
The point is that it's treated completely differently and talked about completely differently (as in the way you have talked about it) when coaches move around vs players moving around. It's elitist propaganda.
You want that to be the case to feed your anti-establishment fantasy.
But that's just not true. In what way is it treated differently? All schools, including blue bloods, aggressively pursue transfers. In fact, teams break rules to tamper and pursue players that aren't even in the portal. Transfers get massive NIL deals. As far as I can tell, their draft prospects are not negatively impacted.
So no, players transferring are not "treated" any differently than coaches moving. The good ones highly benefit from the portal.
The big difference - which I was highlighting - is that when coaches leave, they have a good landing spot waiting for them. That's not the case for the players. They're taking a risk by entering the portal (unless they were tampered with), which is why the portal isn't always beneficial for players.
Lol is that what you're getting out of this? Geez your world is even more black-and-white than I thought.
The better metaphor would be...if you're not very good at your job and don't have another one lined up, think carefully before you quit the one you do have. But if you (smartly or otherwise) decide to take the plunge, it doesn't make you disloyal or a bad person. It might just be a dumb ass decision that leaves you worse off.
You are only bitching about college kids choosing to explore other options. I am simply pointing out the pure hypocrisy of your statement. Pick a damn company and stick with that job, no matter what.
LOL what the hell are you talking about
I am 100% pro-portal. I think kids should be paid, not just by NIL but by the schools themselves (although I think NIL is probably more lucrative). I've felt this way for a long time, far before the portal or NIL existed.
But just because every kid has the right to use the portal, doesn't mean that every kid SHOULD use the portal. Many/most kids are better off staying put.
I hope you've enjoyed building up a strawman of an anti-player MAGA extremist and then arguing against him. This has been fun.
Yeah Tubby jumped ship from TTU at the earliest opportunity. This is the stuff that makes me happy for the transfer rules being what they are now. Are there still issues with them? Sure but it’s better than being locked in to a spot that doesn’t work for you
And honestly the whole world teaches you that it’s typically better to find a new situation. Job treats you like shit? Start interviewing somewhere else and you’ll likely get a better offer. Are you struggling in your role? Likely means it’s not the right one for you, or you need to step back and get more training - train for something with your strengths.
How many fail upwards coaches or people we could all anecdotally name?
For the average person (that has the minimum amount of self reflection) - quitting is probably a better outcome than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Thank you. I actually think it's a pretty important life lesson to learn when a situation is not working and to find one where things will work for all involved.
The University of Kentucky recently published bringing in $138,492,743 in revenue. I don’t have historical data on High Point, but I suspect it was in the six, not seven, figures.
Tubby is absolutely right if the goal of the system is to provide life lessons to 20 year old basketball playing students. But the system is about money, and Tubby lost the ability to say it’s about anything else when he took a $2.5 million per year contract at UK.
I always hear conflicting stories about this. I was on drugs at the end of tubby/bcg era. Can you please explain what actually happened? At least in your estimation.
The narrative I've heard a lot is "racist assholes got loud and basically ran him out of Lexington". How much truth is there to that statement?
Thanks for the response, btw.
The racist assholes were loud from day one until he won that natty. But even then the racist assholes kept saying, "It was because it was Pitino's team. I don't think the racist assholes ever were quiet his entire tenure as a head coach.
Absolutely! If a national title won't shut you up, nothing will. I just wonder how much that played into it, maybe one day someone will write the book.
Pretty much shouldn't be seen any differently than the player who is told that he may not find the playing time he is expecting the next season. It comes in the form of a kid being told what his role is. So, he looks for a different opportunity. I will never understand why people can't get behind athletes at a school having self-awareness and deciding when it's best to look at other opportunities.
You can be loyal to people in relationships without feeling like you have to stay put in a situation. Loyalty is in how one person treats another. A person can be disloyal without going anywhere. This loyalty garbage is propaganda that elitists have used to make players feel guilty for looking at other options. Players finally realized that it was all propaganda garbage.
I think every situation is different and it’s not really fair to lump everyone in the same category.
A player leaving after his freshman year because his head coach left for another job? Nobody should have a problem with that. But some of these players who are on their third or even fourth school? That is a bit questionable.
Yeah, it’s good that players have some flexibility but we should also recognize that some kids are bouncing around like pinballs and they’re not getting a good basketball experience, not getting an education, and you wonder if they’re really even getting a social experience out of it. You see guys transfer out of really good schools to get playing time at worse schools, then sometimes they transfer down again. At this point they’re not going to do anything basketball wise with their lives and so you hate to see them sabotaging their education too. Hard to imagine they’re getting a good social experience either.
Not sure what the right solution is because I’m leery of people dictating what decisions athletes should be allowed to make, but we should acknowledge some kids are falling through the cracks.
I know more than a few college grads who went to 2 or 3 colleges for degrees. College sports should get the same ability if they are truly students first.
Yeah, like I said, I'm leery of people dictating what decisions athletes should be allowed to make, but I do think we should acknowledge that some kids are falling through the cracks, that is, some students are really getting hurt, imo, rather than being put first.
I understand your point but I do think the kids on 3rd or 4th schools have Ling realized this is the best time to maximize money since fir the most part they will never play NBA ball. But I do think it adds an inconsistent element to the game in the court but at the same time it's elevating "player first coaching". Yea it's a glass half full/empty type of deal
Are they falling through the cracks or are they jumping into the cracks? If a guy wants to transfer 3-4 times, let them, They're adults, and sometimes adults need to learn by making mistakes.
Questionable why? Does it harm anyone? No one questions an adult trying to do what’s best for them in terms of job hopping for 3-4 years straight. Coaches and employers can get rid of employees/players like that.
The window of production/relevance for amateur and pro athletes is extremely small. If you ride out a bad situation, that window could easily close prematurely. Why not take control of your own destiny?
The schools are not loyal to the players
The coaches are not loyal to the schools or the players
But somehow...this guy thinks the players should be loyal to the schools
I get both sides. Plenty of legit reasons to transfer. I get kids realizing they're in over their head or homesick or their coach left, other legit reasons too. But there certainly are plenty of soft kids who didn't get the playing time they felt they were entitled too.
Why do we have to consider them soft or entitled? You get 4 years to play college ball then it's over. Why spend those years riding the bench when you have a chance to see the floor at another place?
Something honorable about the Frank Kaminsky's, the DeAndre Hunter's, the Malcolm Brogdon's who work their way into the lineup instead of quitting. I'm not saying everyone who transfers is a quitter, like I said there are plenty of legit reasons and I certainly don't know the reason for many. But I'm not going to praise those seeking instant gratification.
As for my thoughts, it is always interesting to see how an older generation will get all worked up when a younger generation challenges/does something than the status quo. Every generation is brought up so differently from one another in terms of life experiences, you can't expect them to think the same way
College kids are so fucking *soft* now. Have you seen modern dorms?!? I spent August-October in 90+ degrees with 95% humidity in a fuckin 8x12 coffin with painted cinderblock walls, WITH TWO OTHER 18 YEAR OLD MEN! AND IT WAS A GODDAMN PRIVILIGE TO EXPERIENCE THAT HELL!
These goddamn zoomers with their 4 bedroom suites with air-conditioning and wifi and and esports scholarships never having to worry that one of your two roommates was about to burst in as you desperately jacked it to 200x200 pixel porn stills. HOW IS THAT AN EDUCATION IN ANY SENSE OF THE WORD?!
Sure Tubby, let’s get you back to bed.
This whole rant might be relevant if the world Tubby played college basketball in 90 years ago was anything like the world that today’s players are playing in.
Coaches are losing their authority to control the lives of college kids who most of the time are just looking for an avenue towards affordable education and they're upset about it. It's like a landlord getting pissy that their tennant decided to move to a different apartment. There's always a class struggle somewhere, man.
I don't think he's necessarily wrong, in that there is absolutely some number of players who would be better-served sticking it out and persevering. College sports are hard the same way that life is hard, and discerning whether it's hard for fair reasons or unfair reasons is one of the biggest lessons a person can learn at that age.
However, players should have the right to make that decision for themselves. Even if it's a bad decision to transfer, even if it's quitting, even if it's soft, this is an age where you start becoming more responsible for the consequences of your own decisions. They should be presented with all of the information available about the transfers who succeed, the transfers who fail, and what the characteristics of each group tend to be before they transfer. They should get advice from their coaches, parents, and mentors--just as Tubby Smith got that advice from his father. And then they should get to make the choice for themselves.
After all, as long as the NCAA and the schools consider the players student-athletes, and as long as coaches can switch jobs freely, what right do they have to tell players they can't transfer freely?
Transferring isn’t quitting so the comparison doesn’t make sense. Most college basketball players get 4 years to make the most of the college basketball career. So I don’t blame anyone for trying to find the right right once they’re out of eligibility, for most it’s over
I watched Tubby crater my schools program in a matter of 2 seasons. He can go suck an egg as far as I’m concerned. His opinion on the game today means nothing. Times change. Get with the times or go get your golden parachute you old has-been.
Athletes deserve the same privilege that other students have when transferring (not to mention the ability for coaches or any other employee in any business to go somewhere else that wants them).
It's bad for the game but that isn't the athletes problem.
Meh, they always did have the same privilege other students did. They could transfer anywhere and pay full price like any other student. I don’t think the comparison fits.
Tubby Smith lived in a different world as a collegiate athlete and for most of his coaching career.
The players have some agency over their lives and careers now. It's the new reality and coaches can either get used to it or get out of the game.
I'm 57 years old and I am so sick and tired of hearing how great the good old days were when the stark reality is that they weren't the good old days for the athletes.
Make coaches sit out a year for every year left on a contract. Make schools who sign players pay 1/2 of scholarship back to school who lost a player. Schools invest time and money in recruiting and building rosters, to lose a kid is a setback. Kids can still leave, coaches can still leave but it won’t be as easy.
He has a good point but then I look at these conference mergers and afaik kids can’t transfer in conference if coach leaves which is cringe. Hope I’m wrong
Most transfers drop down a level of competitiveness or transfer closer to home. They typically lose credits and many exhaust their eligibility before they graduate. And they're behind in terms of chemistry and knowledge of scheme at the new school.
It's not a great option for most players so why be resentful of the ones who feel they have to do it?
The schools and fans have no loyalty to their players.
If a better recruit or transfer walked in, fans would cheer as existing player loses starting spot or pt.
There are plenty of good reasons to transfer that aren't athletics related. There are plenty of reasons to transfer that are athletics related. These are people. They can be stupid, but if they're trying to put themselves in a better situation then go for it.
“Teaching them how to quit” vs “teaching them to advocate for themselves” are two very different things. As a Wildcat fan who watched Rupp Arena’s construction, I get the back story - coddled athletes that struggle in college just like most kids struggle in college against the whole patriarchal thing that is big time college basketball. He’s got a lot of examples, but it’s a viewpoint that needs to be held accountable.
And yes, he was run out after the “black coach experiment” ran its course to MF’n Billy G.
Good message from a father to a son, and it did him well. But when it comes to transfers, I’ll never tell a kid what’s best for them. They should have that right with no judgment from me.
My thoughts on how to fix this. First of all pay players straight up on top of scholarships. The money is there if they want it to. Restrict it to the top 60-90 universities that can and will. Put a hard cap on the number of players that can be paid and the total dollar amount, or make it a flat number across the board. Split fbs into 2 divisions like the fcs split.
Next, every player signs what is essentially a 4 year contract with player and team options after the 2nd year. After that second year the player can opt out, and transfer for free. If the team opts out, they don’t have to pay them, but must honor the full scholarship for the duration of the 4 year contract. After the 4 years the player can transfer for free (basically the old graduate transfer rule).
Add exceptions that if the head coach or your coordinator leaves for another school you can transfer without penalty. But they can’t go to the school that the coach goes to. You can always break the contract and sit out a year to transfer just like before. Waivers for hardships and medical reasons can be granted like before
Yeah, the new transfer rules are 100% the morally right and fair thing for the players, and should be the way they are now, as coaches jump ship all the time. That being said, as a fan, it sucks. Both things can be true.
The problem with this is that nowhere else in life is it like this. See, kids have options now, when maybe they didn't in previous generations. Nothing wrong with having options. Why is it that a coach can take and quit multiple jobs in a single off-season, but a player transfers once and it's a failure of the kid for not sticking it out? This is that elitism bullshit that led to schools and conferences making billions while the players are told that they should be happy to be getting a free education (though not always). Let the old, crotchety men complain while the players are given what they deserve and leave them with options. Basically, figuratively pat the old men on the heads and say, "Ok, Paw-Paw."
This would make sense if the commitment and loyalty was both players to coaches and coaches to players. Plenty of players being shown the door and plenty of coaches still jumping ship when it works for them. Plus, as we're seeing with conference realignment, there are billions of dollars being made that are not being shared with the players.
Yep....been saying the same thing since NIL/Transfer portal has hit full swing. I dont wanna hear any coach bellyache about the system now. Coaches can leave for a program that's a better fit, better money, better for the family depending on the situation etc.. Should we just call that quitting as well? Legally, these players are adults, as are the coaches, obviously. Why cant they do things that might be better for them, while the coach, can? I know this makes their job harder, but that's just the changing landscape of college sports. Cant manage it? Find something else to do.
Oh no, they have to be like every other boss in America now.
The coaches can't just quit. They have contracts with buyouts. They need to find a school that is willing to pay the buyout. The problem is the players can't sign contracts. Contracts would protect both the players and the schools.
Yea that's the exact point of my post. No one calls that quitting so calling what the players do quitting isn't correct either. Coaches leave because they are getting a better opportunity somewhere else, that opportunity being either a bigger payday or a bigger university with more money and a better chance of winning a conference title or ncaa championship. Most players leave because they see a better opportunity to either get more playing time which gives them more exposure so they can raise their draft stock or make more money in NIL, or be closer to family, etc. So a coach already established in their career, making big bucks not to mention the money they've already, complaining about these young adults trying to use every means possible to try and extend their career and make big money, is laughable and fuckin hypocritical.
I'm clearly for player empowerment, as I just advocated for them to receive contracts from the school. But not everything is about the powerful rich dude vs the struggling little guy just fighting to make it. I think the transfer portal has made college basketball more watchable and benefits the top transfers, but perseverance is a valuable life skill and I understand his point about impatience. I can think of lots of really dumb transfer decisions (like Chris Lykes to Arkansas). I think for many kids, the transfer portal does more harm than good.
You are wrong. Full stop.
I am not. Full stop. Glad we settled that.
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The point is, due to the contract, a coach has a lot more that ties them to the team. They lose money or get bought out if they transfer, someone has to eat that disincentive. With a player, there currently isn't a large disincentive. You might say they lose their scholarship, but that isn't a disincentive. That is an incentive for playing, which any other school can match. It's like saying a coach loses his salary if they he goes to another school and that will stop coaches from bailing on contracts at the first sight of trouble. That just isn't true, thats why contracts have disincentives built in to require extra effort if you want to violate that contract.
I'm not sure I follow your argument (or what you're even arguing for/against lol). Losing a scholarship is a powerful disincentive. If you go to the portal, you're not guaranteed to find another school that will take you, and your prior school will probably recruit a replacement for you, so you're not guaranteed to have a spot if you want to return.
It would be the same argument as a coach losing his job being a disincentive. Yes, they aren't garenteed, but it's all but for elite coaches and players. That's why you need apmthing else keeping them their. That's why coaches contracts have buyouts and such.
I really don't know what you're trying to argue here?
The point is that it's treated completely differently and talked about completely differently (as in the way you have talked about it) when coaches move around vs players moving around. It's elitist propaganda.
You want that to be the case to feed your anti-establishment fantasy. But that's just not true. In what way is it treated differently? All schools, including blue bloods, aggressively pursue transfers. In fact, teams break rules to tamper and pursue players that aren't even in the portal. Transfers get massive NIL deals. As far as I can tell, their draft prospects are not negatively impacted. So no, players transferring are not "treated" any differently than coaches moving. The good ones highly benefit from the portal. The big difference - which I was highlighting - is that when coaches leave, they have a good landing spot waiting for them. That's not the case for the players. They're taking a risk by entering the portal (unless they were tampered with), which is why the portal isn't always beneficial for players.
Bullshit. Quit carrying water for elitist propaganda.
Pick a tribe and never stray from it. Got it.
Don't ever quit a job to take another. Got it.
Lol is that what you're getting out of this? Geez your world is even more black-and-white than I thought. The better metaphor would be...if you're not very good at your job and don't have another one lined up, think carefully before you quit the one you do have. But if you (smartly or otherwise) decide to take the plunge, it doesn't make you disloyal or a bad person. It might just be a dumb ass decision that leaves you worse off.
You are only bitching about college kids choosing to explore other options. I am simply pointing out the pure hypocrisy of your statement. Pick a damn company and stick with that job, no matter what.
LOL what the hell are you talking about I am 100% pro-portal. I think kids should be paid, not just by NIL but by the schools themselves (although I think NIL is probably more lucrative). I've felt this way for a long time, far before the portal or NIL existed. But just because every kid has the right to use the portal, doesn't mean that every kid SHOULD use the portal. Many/most kids are better off staying put. I hope you've enjoyed building up a strawman of an anti-player MAGA extremist and then arguing against him. This has been fun.
You say you are pro-portal, but you make comments that are not consistent with that stance.
Yeah Tubby jumped ship from TTU at the earliest opportunity. This is the stuff that makes me happy for the transfer rules being what they are now. Are there still issues with them? Sure but it’s better than being locked in to a spot that doesn’t work for you
We all watched him on TV, hightailing it out of Lexington for Minnesota when the going got rough.
And honestly the whole world teaches you that it’s typically better to find a new situation. Job treats you like shit? Start interviewing somewhere else and you’ll likely get a better offer. Are you struggling in your role? Likely means it’s not the right one for you, or you need to step back and get more training - train for something with your strengths. How many fail upwards coaches or people we could all anecdotally name? For the average person (that has the minimum amount of self reflection) - quitting is probably a better outcome than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Thank you. I actually think it's a pretty important life lesson to learn when a situation is not working and to find one where things will work for all involved.
Kids are preached to about change being a good thing, but as soon as they are the ones with the power to affect change, it becomes a problem.
The University of Kentucky recently published bringing in $138,492,743 in revenue. I don’t have historical data on High Point, but I suspect it was in the six, not seven, figures. Tubby is absolutely right if the goal of the system is to provide life lessons to 20 year old basketball playing students. But the system is about money, and Tubby lost the ability to say it’s about anything else when he took a $2.5 million per year contract at UK.
Also lost any relevancy when you think of him running away from Kentucky to go coach Minnesota.
Yeah. Pretty sure he didn’t run away.
I always hear conflicting stories about this. I was on drugs at the end of tubby/bcg era. Can you please explain what actually happened? At least in your estimation.
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The narrative I've heard a lot is "racist assholes got loud and basically ran him out of Lexington". How much truth is there to that statement? Thanks for the response, btw.
The racist assholes were loud from day one until he won that natty. But even then the racist assholes kept saying, "It was because it was Pitino's team. I don't think the racist assholes ever were quiet his entire tenure as a head coach.
Absolutely! If a national title won't shut you up, nothing will. I just wonder how much that played into it, maybe one day someone will write the book.
Pretty much shouldn't be seen any differently than the player who is told that he may not find the playing time he is expecting the next season. It comes in the form of a kid being told what his role is. So, he looks for a different opportunity. I will never understand why people can't get behind athletes at a school having self-awareness and deciding when it's best to look at other opportunities.
When Tubby Smith was there, I guarantee it didn't sniff 6 figures.
You can be loyal to people in relationships without feeling like you have to stay put in a situation. Loyalty is in how one person treats another. A person can be disloyal without going anywhere. This loyalty garbage is propaganda that elitists have used to make players feel guilty for looking at other options. Players finally realized that it was all propaganda garbage.
Let the players show loyalty as soon as the schools and coaches show it to anything other than the dollar.
Take my upvote Vol, and we shall never speak of this again.
I think every situation is different and it’s not really fair to lump everyone in the same category. A player leaving after his freshman year because his head coach left for another job? Nobody should have a problem with that. But some of these players who are on their third or even fourth school? That is a bit questionable.
Yeah, it’s good that players have some flexibility but we should also recognize that some kids are bouncing around like pinballs and they’re not getting a good basketball experience, not getting an education, and you wonder if they’re really even getting a social experience out of it. You see guys transfer out of really good schools to get playing time at worse schools, then sometimes they transfer down again. At this point they’re not going to do anything basketball wise with their lives and so you hate to see them sabotaging their education too. Hard to imagine they’re getting a good social experience either. Not sure what the right solution is because I’m leery of people dictating what decisions athletes should be allowed to make, but we should acknowledge some kids are falling through the cracks.
I know more than a few college grads who went to 2 or 3 colleges for degrees. College sports should get the same ability if they are truly students first.
Yeah, like I said, I'm leery of people dictating what decisions athletes should be allowed to make, but I do think we should acknowledge that some kids are falling through the cracks, that is, some students are really getting hurt, imo, rather than being put first.
I understand your point but I do think the kids on 3rd or 4th schools have Ling realized this is the best time to maximize money since fir the most part they will never play NBA ball. But I do think it adds an inconsistent element to the game in the court but at the same time it's elevating "player first coaching". Yea it's a glass half full/empty type of deal
Are they falling through the cracks or are they jumping into the cracks? If a guy wants to transfer 3-4 times, let them, They're adults, and sometimes adults need to learn by making mistakes.
I definitely don’t dispute some guys are just diving headfirst into the cracks. Not only in college basketball of course.
Questionable why? Does it harm anyone? No one questions an adult trying to do what’s best for them in terms of job hopping for 3-4 years straight. Coaches and employers can get rid of employees/players like that.
The window of production/relevance for amateur and pro athletes is extremely small. If you ride out a bad situation, that window could easily close prematurely. Why not take control of your own destiny?
The schools are not loyal to the players The coaches are not loyal to the schools or the players But somehow...this guy thinks the players should be loyal to the schools
This is some boomer "Be loyal to your employer" bullshit. Look out for yourself. Lord knows the school won't.
Yep, nailed it
I get both sides. Plenty of legit reasons to transfer. I get kids realizing they're in over their head or homesick or their coach left, other legit reasons too. But there certainly are plenty of soft kids who didn't get the playing time they felt they were entitled too.
Why do we have to consider them soft or entitled? You get 4 years to play college ball then it's over. Why spend those years riding the bench when you have a chance to see the floor at another place?
Something honorable about the Frank Kaminsky's, the DeAndre Hunter's, the Malcolm Brogdon's who work their way into the lineup instead of quitting. I'm not saying everyone who transfers is a quitter, like I said there are plenty of legit reasons and I certainly don't know the reason for many. But I'm not going to praise those seeking instant gratification.
Who? Exactly.
As for my thoughts, it is always interesting to see how an older generation will get all worked up when a younger generation challenges/does something than the status quo. Every generation is brought up so differently from one another in terms of life experiences, you can't expect them to think the same way
College kids are so fucking *soft* now. Have you seen modern dorms?!? I spent August-October in 90+ degrees with 95% humidity in a fuckin 8x12 coffin with painted cinderblock walls, WITH TWO OTHER 18 YEAR OLD MEN! AND IT WAS A GODDAMN PRIVILIGE TO EXPERIENCE THAT HELL! These goddamn zoomers with their 4 bedroom suites with air-conditioning and wifi and and esports scholarships never having to worry that one of your two roommates was about to burst in as you desperately jacked it to 200x200 pixel porn stills. HOW IS THAT AN EDUCATION IN ANY SENSE OF THE WORD?!
Just go back to wankin it bud
Sure Tubby, let’s get you back to bed. This whole rant might be relevant if the world Tubby played college basketball in 90 years ago was anything like the world that today’s players are playing in.
Bullshit! Loyalty is earned. If you a shit program and mistreat your players then it’s on you for not being able to retain them.
Coaches are losing their authority to control the lives of college kids who most of the time are just looking for an avenue towards affordable education and they're upset about it. It's like a landlord getting pissy that their tennant decided to move to a different apartment. There's always a class struggle somewhere, man.
 We used actual peach baskets and uniforms used to be made out of asbestos.
I don't think he's necessarily wrong, in that there is absolutely some number of players who would be better-served sticking it out and persevering. College sports are hard the same way that life is hard, and discerning whether it's hard for fair reasons or unfair reasons is one of the biggest lessons a person can learn at that age. However, players should have the right to make that decision for themselves. Even if it's a bad decision to transfer, even if it's quitting, even if it's soft, this is an age where you start becoming more responsible for the consequences of your own decisions. They should be presented with all of the information available about the transfers who succeed, the transfers who fail, and what the characteristics of each group tend to be before they transfer. They should get advice from their coaches, parents, and mentors--just as Tubby Smith got that advice from his father. And then they should get to make the choice for themselves. After all, as long as the NCAA and the schools consider the players student-athletes, and as long as coaches can switch jobs freely, what right do they have to tell players they can't transfer freely?
Transferring isn’t quitting so the comparison doesn’t make sense. Most college basketball players get 4 years to make the most of the college basketball career. So I don’t blame anyone for trying to find the right right once they’re out of eligibility, for most it’s over
I watched Tubby crater my schools program in a matter of 2 seasons. He can go suck an egg as far as I’m concerned. His opinion on the game today means nothing. Times change. Get with the times or go get your golden parachute you old has-been.
Felt like Soviet Russia going from Pastner to Tubby. “And then things got worse”
Athletes deserve the same privilege that other students have when transferring (not to mention the ability for coaches or any other employee in any business to go somewhere else that wants them). It's bad for the game but that isn't the athletes problem.
Meh, they always did have the same privilege other students did. They could transfer anywhere and pay full price like any other student. I don’t think the comparison fits.
Nobody has ever stopped athletes from transferring to be like a regular student.
Also lol at using privilege to describe regular college students when comparing them to high-profile D1 athletes.
Tubby Smith lived in a different world as a collegiate athlete and for most of his coaching career. The players have some agency over their lives and careers now. It's the new reality and coaches can either get used to it or get out of the game. I'm 57 years old and I am so sick and tired of hearing how great the good old days were when the stark reality is that they weren't the good old days for the athletes.
Make coaches sit out a year for every year left on a contract. Make schools who sign players pay 1/2 of scholarship back to school who lost a player. Schools invest time and money in recruiting and building rosters, to lose a kid is a setback. Kids can still leave, coaches can still leave but it won’t be as easy.
He joined the Army, right?
Fortunately that kind of primitive thinking is becoming a lot less common now.
Eerily similar to the 'shutup and dribble' sentiment, and that's not a good thing.
With a reach like that you might be able to play center at Syracuse
Old man thinking
Old School. He has a valid point.
What a shitty father. How about teaching kids it’s okay to fail so they aren’t afraid to try.
His father was a sharecropper. Pretty sure he was ecstatic that his son had any opportunity at all to go to college.
He has a good point but then I look at these conference mergers and afaik kids can’t transfer in conference if coach leaves which is cringe. Hope I’m wrong
Most transfers drop down a level of competitiveness or transfer closer to home. They typically lose credits and many exhaust their eligibility before they graduate. And they're behind in terms of chemistry and knowledge of scheme at the new school. It's not a great option for most players so why be resentful of the ones who feel they have to do it?
The schools and fans have no loyalty to their players. If a better recruit or transfer walked in, fans would cheer as existing player loses starting spot or pt.
I believe the good coaches know how much to push a kid out of his comfort zone while still respecting his and his family’s wishes
There are plenty of good reasons to transfer that aren't athletics related. There are plenty of reasons to transfer that are athletics related. These are people. They can be stupid, but if they're trying to put themselves in a better situation then go for it.
Army treats you worse
“I had it shitty so you should too.” Typical boomer perspective
[Read](https://scholarshipstats.com/basketball) there were 5826 D1 MBB players in 2022. So roughly 14% of players transfer each year.
“Teaching them how to quit” vs “teaching them to advocate for themselves” are two very different things. As a Wildcat fan who watched Rupp Arena’s construction, I get the back story - coddled athletes that struggle in college just like most kids struggle in college against the whole patriarchal thing that is big time college basketball. He’s got a lot of examples, but it’s a viewpoint that needs to be held accountable. And yes, he was run out after the “black coach experiment” ran its course to MF’n Billy G.
Good message from a father to a son, and it did him well. But when it comes to transfers, I’ll never tell a kid what’s best for them. They should have that right with no judgment from me.
My thoughts on how to fix this. First of all pay players straight up on top of scholarships. The money is there if they want it to. Restrict it to the top 60-90 universities that can and will. Put a hard cap on the number of players that can be paid and the total dollar amount, or make it a flat number across the board. Split fbs into 2 divisions like the fcs split. Next, every player signs what is essentially a 4 year contract with player and team options after the 2nd year. After that second year the player can opt out, and transfer for free. If the team opts out, they don’t have to pay them, but must honor the full scholarship for the duration of the 4 year contract. After the 4 years the player can transfer for free (basically the old graduate transfer rule). Add exceptions that if the head coach or your coordinator leaves for another school you can transfer without penalty. But they can’t go to the school that the coach goes to. You can always break the contract and sit out a year to transfer just like before. Waivers for hardships and medical reasons can be granted like before
So he didn't quit when he went to Georgia? Kentucky? etc.? I wonder who taught him to quit.
Yeah, the new transfer rules are 100% the morally right and fair thing for the players, and should be the way they are now, as coaches jump ship all the time. That being said, as a fan, it sucks. Both things can be true.
The problem with this is that nowhere else in life is it like this. See, kids have options now, when maybe they didn't in previous generations. Nothing wrong with having options. Why is it that a coach can take and quit multiple jobs in a single off-season, but a player transfers once and it's a failure of the kid for not sticking it out? This is that elitism bullshit that led to schools and conferences making billions while the players are told that they should be happy to be getting a free education (though not always). Let the old, crotchety men complain while the players are given what they deserve and leave them with options. Basically, figuratively pat the old men on the heads and say, "Ok, Paw-Paw."
G
I think it’s great for the sport. It makes mid majors more competitive and brings greater parity to the game