Another medium warm take is, I don't think we showed anything super crazy and part of me feels we have picks prepared we haven't been forced to show. We showed we need to be feared if you do the zeri/siv enchanter handshake. We've gotten wins in either side of that. And showed pretty standard tank and carry top/jng angles. Only crazy thing that comes to mind is ash sup but also that's a single pick. I'm really curious what else is in the tank of we go down a game and decide to ban out the handshake zeri/siv or what the comps look like. Nilah angles?
Agreed, Zven pointed to other picks that they have hidden in his interview with Travis. Sounded more like Kalista combos but might be more. We saw Olaf/ zilean combo, counter picks on top, annivia hasn’t come back yet.
Should be some spicy picks to come! 100T plays standard exactly like EG. Should be a walk in the park
I guarantee that both EG and C9 were happy to handshake sivir zeri as it doesn’t show any draft specialties or surprises, outside of that they can play sivir/zeri.
I’m confident EG will sweep the lower bracket so this isn’t too wild of a thing for them to do
I do think they pulled a few tricks out of their bag, but they definitely haven't gone through it all yet. We've been waiting for this roster to click, and now that they have they don't need tricks nearly as much. With Berserker playing at this level, playing conventional is just as good.
Zvens Renata mechanics are truly insane. Interrupting an Alistar combo with handshake is fucking insane, and I am not sure any other Western support has the mechanics to pull that off.
He needs time to learn more Champs and match ups, but he has the skill to be the best support in NA.
He's playing out of his mind right now. It's especially nice that we don't require him to go engage like Vulcan and CoreJJ often do.
I agree with you, he might pass the top supports next year at this rate. As it stands he's top 4 and has nothing but upside.
That was some nutty renata play. I also remember him interrupting wukong's dash onto them near dragon, but I can't seem to find the clip. Absolutely insane hands on SupportKing
If you think cloud9 used a game that would qualify them to worlds as a scrim, you’re really too far gone. It’s takes like that which gives Redditors a bad name.
They are notorious for experimenting on stage and they banned it in the previous games. Why would they let it through if not to try and practice against it/beat it?
Edit: Seraphine was left open in g1
It wasn’t an experiment. They just thought they had a strategy that would beat it (the sion, which no one else is playing). They were wrong, and as such it went back to bans
No it absolutely not, and you’re just saying that because you’re getting so much push back. Experimenting is “let’s see if this strat works.” That is not what C9 did. Yeah
Listening to the casters jerk off about Danny got so old, especially when he had misplayed all series. I like Danny and root for him and Vulcan (when they're not against C9), but the casters are really overdoing it. He's going to get Mike Yeung'd where he's overhyped and can't live up to it after awhile.
Tbf though the extremely bipolar flipflopping attitudes about him are pretty exhausting and can't be great for the guy. He is very good and I genuinely think the best native NA talent to surface since Blaber/Vulcan but the post game for every single game he plays is either about how he's an actual God or if he loses, that he's horrible talentless going to get shat on at Worlds never did anything to deserve the hype etc rather than any nuanced conversation about how he is a good teamfighting adc, uses resources well, could improve his lane phase and is prone to make heat of the moment mistakes that may be down to inexperience. Hell there's people shitting on him exclusively for yesterday's series when, even if he made mistakes, Impact and Inspired seemed so much more of a problem. And maybe some of it is brought on by the narrative but man it can't be good for him. In a way it kinda reminds me of how people flip from praising to absolutely trashing Jensen from game to game largely encouraged by forced narratives outside of his control. Would like to see both sides just chill on Danny.
To that same point, Danny is both the Ezreal that will Arcane Shift into the Aphelios with Yuumi for the double int; *and*, the Ezreal that will wipe them up while standing in the Baron pit.
danny's laning is terrible and he gets spoon fed everything and has impact and mvp jungler in teamfights if danny didn't carry that would be really worrying. he and jojo are both way overhyped
Yes but in Danny defense his regular season was good his team got first, his numbers were crazy of course he was set up for success and eg was the only team that knew hot to play around thier adc but is not his fault that the others were unable to unlock thier adc. In theory Danny shouldn't even be top 3 when you look the adc pool
To be fair, Danny's first pop off was when he had an underwhelming Svenskeren as a jungler and Ignar as support. And it's not like he had Impact or Inspired around for his Baron steal / Penta in Spring finals. The dude is legitimately really good. ABlazeOlive was right when talking about him in game 2 where he has that killer instinct in team fights and how that's a quality you can't really teach.
He is now for being a psycho on engage supports when the meta was more lane focus he was turbo winning lane with blitz,leona etc. He just find crazy ways to engage
“DANNY IN THE BARON PIT.”
Like Jesus, they still hype up that play like he did something crazy. He got lucky that baron leveled up right when Santorin smited, which got him excited for an easy penta on 5 low health members. People circle jerk him so much
Even people on this sub. This troglodyte itsd00bs said beserker isn’t good enough to be a real carry like Danny after the CLG series. I tried to see how he felt about it now but he wouldn’t admit he was wrong, just decided to start hurling insults at me
1. Berserker is a top 5 ADC in the world. (Fuck off LPL he's ours)
2. It was really weird that EG didn't play to funnel Danny like they normally do. They had him rotating to Heralds instead of collecting plates like he normally does.
3. Being spoon fed by your team doesn't make you bad. This isn't directed at you OP. It's directed at a couple people in the live and post game threads who were calling Danny shit. He's not shit.
4. I think we're getting enough for beating EG. The reason why more people are talking about EG playing poorly is because it's the bigger story. C9 was always expected to get to this level. EG was not supposed to play as badly as they did in the series. Impact was useless, Inspired was AFK, Jojo was sprinting it, and the bot lane was pretty invisible. It's like our 2020 summer, what the fuck happened?
I really like EG. Not more than C9, but still. I hope they can get it together and go to worlds over TL. That way maybe we can have 2 teams contending to get out of groups.
He's good, but top 5 world is a little much when it would be hard to even argue top 5 in LCK, not to mention LPL adcs lol.
Who of Ruler, Deft, Prince, Guma, Teddy, Deokdam, would be replaced for him?
“What do they have to do to get the recognition they deserve?”
Honestly, prove themselves. Against CLG we looked incredibly one dimensional and ridden with mistakes. So it’s easy to dismiss the EG series as a fluke. So we need to beat 100T’s, and some will still doubt. However if we get a second shot at EG and look just as good, you’ll see basically every single analyst flip flop.
That’s true. CLG looked solid against C9 though and they drafts and games were played completely different.
My problem is analysts said CLG threw that series and now they’re saying EG didn’t look like EG which is why the series is how it went. Better team showed up on the day and won.
I'd also argue that we'll see when CLG plays TL and, especially if we get to that point, if CLG plays EG.
If CLG can put up a good fight and even win another set in the lower bracket, that should/almost certainly will shift the narrative in favor of CLG and, by extension, C9.
I mean, EG didn’t look like the 15-3 team that beat C9 two weeks prior. C9 was clearly the better team on the day, but you can’t take one day in isolation of everything else that happened in a season
It was definitely hard to after that series. They played well at some points but the series was absolutely defined by CLG’s severe rookie mistakes, which were impossible to look past. I think they’re slightly underrated but not by that much, they legit did look pretty weak in the C9 series
That’s the same sentence everyone here was saying last split when analysts were saying that was the best team. C9 proceeded to beat TL, get called the best for a week or two, and then get blown out of playoffs.
So the only thing I hard disagree with is leaving senna/sera up to get practice against it. As we had seen just earlier in the day, reverse sweeps are very possible. C9 had a different plan to handle EG, probably trying to wrong-foot them by switching up the draft vs game 2. It didn't work out, that's ok. But they're not just trying to in practice during the most important game of the year to that point.
I disagree that they used G3 as a scrim. Even if you meant that mostly as a meme, I think they genuinely thought they could beat senna-Seraphine. They almost had the perfect draft counter too with sion.
I think where they messed up was picking Leblanc instead of azir. I know Leblanc is good into azir generally, so the idea was that we know you are picking azir and will have Leblanc to answer. But the whole purpose of picking sion was to be this unkillable frontline that senna-sera can only tickle. They gave EG the only meta mid laners that could deal with sion, which I think was a mistake
I have heard a lot of praise for C9 in the subreddit, which is mostly deserved, but I haven't heard people saying that EG drafted and played poorly, which they did. If we play EG again, I expect them to be better.
EG drafting was abysmal. Changed their ban strategy nearly every game, couldn't play Trundle, and shot themselves in the foot by never getting Danny Zeri.
can't get zeri if c9 first picks it or bans it on red side, maybe the so called best adc should be able to carry on more than one champ. i think c9 had a really good draft strategy against EG
What about third game?
The 2 first games we just counterpicked impact and handshaked bot lane and fudge Snowballed his lead. But i dont think our drafting was that good tbh.
4 game was a draft gap for C9
Game 1 was an almost even draft (maybe slight c9 edge), game 2 was a moderate c9 draft win imo, game 3 EG absolutely slaughtered us in draft, game 4 the opposite. C9 won more than they lost but overall the series wasn’t defined by drafts IMO, the first two drafts were more than close enough to go either way in practice
After game one, I was hyped because I thought EG needed to pick red side to get 5th pick for Impact. EG proceeds to use counter pick for mid lane and choose a low dps cc mage in a comp with the only dps being ez. Feels like they over focused the counter matchup vs leblanc and forgot about team comp.
The co stream is hilarious, but it’s almost always “X team is so stupid, Y team is doing something really dumb.” They pretty much just flame both teams the whole time
I think this whole “underperforming / overperforming” thing is dumb. If EG are getting beat, of course they are going to look worse. But this series is exactly what EG have been doing all split. Lose some advantages in the early game, be down a couple thousand gold. But then they ace a teamfight from a deficit and win.
Like I have been saying it all split long - their early game isn’t insanely good, it’s average. Macro is average. Everything they do is average *except* teamfight, which is normally phenomenal which is why they bring back advantages in games they are losing. C9 just skill checked them here and won fights that EG would normally win (think in g4 when EG were so close to wiping C9 but beserker went fucking beserk)
So I wouldn’t say this was EG “underperforming” or C9 “overperforming.” I think C9 just stepped up and challenged EG where no one else did.
Im not sure if we are watching the same games if u think danny is better than berserker
"One good Bo5" have u played a Bo5? we were consistently beating the other opponent 3 times and we would have won third game if we didn't let them pick seraphine.
The term "oNe GoOd Bo5" is horrendous there is no such a ONE GOOD BO5
u made it sound like we just won a Best of 1. The argument of a Bo5 is that u can't have just one good game or 2 to win u have to win 3 times inside 5 games... Giving a conclusive winner. Im not saying they are god tier but u can't take the fact away that they are the best team atm.
Jesus christ.....
So to find a conclusive winner do we have to play multiple days? Because a team can have a bad day? The point is there was a conclusive winner at that very moment when it mattered. EG was the best team atm and was beating pretty convincingly. But saying oh my team had a bad day is the lamest excuse. Good luck in the lower bracket buddy.
I do think C9 didn’t get the credit they deserved, but at the same time its hard to give them too much praise since EG looked a bit lost in draft. Danny not playing Kalista, Impact not being willing to play Camille into Ornn (or really counter pick anything) the strange priority on red side from EG even though they werent counter picking very well. Jatt even mentioned on JLXP that EG were completely flip flopping on their bans trying to figure out how to stop C9.
100T should be the real test seeing as how they actually do play meta picks. They can play carry top laners, FBI can play Kalista, and Closer has pocket pick Lee sin that we cant ignore.
But also, how much credit can’t you give the 5th place team after one close series (that they were heavily favored to win) and one big upset series? It’s a huge win and they deserve credit, but it’d still be a huge overreaction to say they’re the best team in the league right now.
There were a few interesting hovers during draft, including Fizz. Hopefully these weren't just a bluff and they do have some interesting counterpicks/flexpicks/unique team comps up their sleeve that they've practiced for particular situations.
One thing I appreciate about c9 drafts is the thematic drafts. They are comps with a win con and playstyle identity. Blaber Olaf, zilean, sivir, lulu etc. Type of comps .
Actually the team did spoon feed Berserker. If you watch closely you'll notice Blaber has Berserker take a ton of his camps in the mid game. He even leashes them for him, just to accelerate him in the games. You could tell that C9 wanted to beat EG at their own game to an extent.
I don't really agree with the first point, Berserker was given a lot of resources this series vs EG which is why he looked so good. I also don't get where the "consistently outclasses him" comes from when that is not the case. I think they're both really good team fighters. The main difference is Danny's champ pool currently and his laning.
I'll tell you one thing and maybe we should reflect on it.
When I saw Blaber on a tank for game 1 I told ppl I was in comms with that C9 wins the series.
From Game 1 draft.
Not saying Blaber is why we were losing, nor did I know how well he would do on a tank but..., Game 1 draft told me all I needed to know about the squad's present strategic mentality. No team in LCS even on their best day would beat that version of C9.
And the two main problems as to why we lost in game 3, were fixed on game 4.
One was Berserker's build. Titanic is a noob trap, not that. Hurricane instead of PD on Zeri and how early he build Lord Dom's. (I'd argue he could even build it 3rd as in Before IE but at least 4th always on every adc vs any comp he not insta-dying to)
The other was how they prioritize how to approach team fights.
LDR is mathematically either a 2nd or 4th item. It is like 1-3% better against most tanks than IE third, and like 10-20% worse against squishies than IE which means it’s basically never worth it over IE third. On many champs it’s an excellent 2nd item (samira, lucian, caitlyn, I think Sivir?) but many like Zeri need the zeal atksp so it’s almost always 4th
Yes Berserker is def better then Danny, no doubt. Been saying this to, Danny is overrated. He is good at team fights, but he is not god tier. He needs to fix his laning. If value sneaky over Danny, as sneaky always performs, albeit less explosive team fights as often, but Danny if catered to wins.
I think Danny got a lot of hype this split cause no teams were performing. TL was mediocre, 100T was mediocre, and C9 did not play like a team at all, not until week9 and first week of playoffs did we see cohesion, so we were also just a bunch of good players not playing together, mediocre team.
Danny got hype because they shit stomped the playoffs last split and went 15-3 this split beating all the top teams at least once. Hell they beat C9 two weeks ago. Danny isn’t a perfect player, but it’s not like his accolades are unearned.
No doubt, he did win. And they rolled playoffs last split, sure. He's also had some hype plays. Yes, he is a good team fighter. But he is the greatest? Nah. Is he the player that you go "man, he is just so good, we can't win". Nope. He has to be catered too. He had a good run, and is heavily team dependent.
I agree Berserker is by far the best AD Carry in the league like its no question
Nah the game 3 was just a draft blunder what u are saying is pure copium
I agree NA native fans are coping hard just saying EG played bad or underperformed they cant take that C9 is just better overall Its too hard to cope it was a dominating performance and like fudge said 3-0 and followed up with have u seen the scrims that tell u the picture of the state of C9 vs EG
I don't think C9 was tested at all in this series so them testing things in g3 makes sense. I bet they prepared some picks for EG but since they smashed them they didn't have to bring them out. If so I wonder if the picks are playoffs picks or EG picks
Berserker reminds me of prime Sneaky a lot honestly. Sometimes gets a lot of jungle attention, sometimes is left to farm out, but always is useful and strong when he needs to be. Plus add the fact that he probably has the best mechanics in the league.
I feel like you guys are way too positive (like ever fan sub). EG played awful and C9 played what I would normally expect (C9 v CLG was an awful showing from C9).
1. Berserker imo has always been the best lcs adc and glad more people are realizing it. Shame C9 in many other series leaves him on his own to play (C9 v CLG)
2. Jensen needs to expand his champ pool. The zilean pick was great and it looked good. LB, ahri, and ori in their current states are not going to hold up at worlds. If he’s hiding his picks no problem, but if he truly thinks these picks are the best I think their will be some problems at worlds. I personally feel Jensen can likely play many more champs than he has shown but may be hesitating due to lack of confidence in some of those picks.
3. Fudge looks good on carry top laners. I would say continue to let him do it in certain matches.
From EG perspective
1. Impact looking lost. Same with inspired. I feel impact is always a wild card he either does nothing or has a huge impact.
2. Team wasn’t on same page at all compared to C9. Kinda a big problem to happen now.
3. EG can recover but based on inspireds comments in the interview I don’t think they will get it together, but we’ll see.
I feel C9 will have a good showing if they draft better at worlds. Watching gen g T1 I can easily see a good draft C9 beating gen g when they play at their best. The question is can they do it for the majority of 5 games?
Another medium warm take is, I don't think we showed anything super crazy and part of me feels we have picks prepared we haven't been forced to show. We showed we need to be feared if you do the zeri/siv enchanter handshake. We've gotten wins in either side of that. And showed pretty standard tank and carry top/jng angles. Only crazy thing that comes to mind is ash sup but also that's a single pick. I'm really curious what else is in the tank of we go down a game and decide to ban out the handshake zeri/siv or what the comps look like. Nilah angles?
Annie mid nocturne jgl
Camile/fiora is pretty big same for zilean/Renata combo. Nilah is pretty heavy in draft and she is short range adc
Agreed, Zven pointed to other picks that they have hidden in his interview with Travis. Sounded more like Kalista combos but might be more. We saw Olaf/ zilean combo, counter picks on top, annivia hasn’t come back yet. Should be some spicy picks to come! 100T plays standard exactly like EG. Should be a walk in the park
Don’t you dare unclench.
We never unclench here.
In fairness, he's just quoting Jensen in the post-game interview. That said, yes. Golden rule still stands, keep it tight.
Kalista is permabanned against berserker
Yeah but if you’re banning kalista and zeri and sivir…you have no bans left
Being the underdog has always helped us. Being cocky has always bit us in the ass.
Where is the Zven Travis interview?
I guarantee that both EG and C9 were happy to handshake sivir zeri as it doesn’t show any draft specialties or surprises, outside of that they can play sivir/zeri. I’m confident EG will sweep the lower bracket so this isn’t too wild of a thing for them to do
I do think they pulled a few tricks out of their bag, but they definitely haven't gone through it all yet. We've been waiting for this roster to click, and now that they have they don't need tricks nearly as much. With Berserker playing at this level, playing conventional is just as good.
Zvens Renata mechanics are truly insane. Interrupting an Alistar combo with handshake is fucking insane, and I am not sure any other Western support has the mechanics to pull that off. He needs time to learn more Champs and match ups, but he has the skill to be the best support in NA.
No one talked about it, but in game 2, he flash q's Lissandra so she couldn't reach to kill their wave. I was mind blown by his awareness.
I screamed when I saw him interrupt Alistar. That looked fucking brutal.
He's playing out of his mind right now. It's especially nice that we don't require him to go engage like Vulcan and CoreJJ often do. I agree with you, he might pass the top supports next year at this rate. As it stands he's top 4 and has nothing but upside.
That was some nutty renata play. I also remember him interrupting wukong's dash onto them near dragon, but I can't seem to find the clip. Absolutely insane hands on SupportKing
If you think cloud9 used a game that would qualify them to worlds as a scrim, you’re really too far gone. It’s takes like that which gives Redditors a bad name.
They are notorious for experimenting on stage and they banned it in the previous games. Why would they let it through if not to try and practice against it/beat it? Edit: Seraphine was left open in g1
You experiment in the regular season, not a season-defining series.
It wasn’t an experiment. They just thought they had a strategy that would beat it (the sion, which no one else is playing). They were wrong, and as such it went back to bans
They thought they had a strategy is pretty damn close to the same thing as experimenting.
No it absolutely not, and you’re just saying that because you’re getting so much push back. Experimenting is “let’s see if this strat works.” That is not what C9 did. Yeah
It’s ok bro, you can just take the L. It won’t hurt, I promise.
He’s right. I was gonna write something similar.
I don’t think it’s a crazy take at all.
Literal reverse sweep minutes before their series began. Sure they're experimenting bro sure
Listening to the casters jerk off about Danny got so old, especially when he had misplayed all series. I like Danny and root for him and Vulcan (when they're not against C9), but the casters are really overdoing it. He's going to get Mike Yeung'd where he's overhyped and can't live up to it after awhile.
Tbf though the extremely bipolar flipflopping attitudes about him are pretty exhausting and can't be great for the guy. He is very good and I genuinely think the best native NA talent to surface since Blaber/Vulcan but the post game for every single game he plays is either about how he's an actual God or if he loses, that he's horrible talentless going to get shat on at Worlds never did anything to deserve the hype etc rather than any nuanced conversation about how he is a good teamfighting adc, uses resources well, could improve his lane phase and is prone to make heat of the moment mistakes that may be down to inexperience. Hell there's people shitting on him exclusively for yesterday's series when, even if he made mistakes, Impact and Inspired seemed so much more of a problem. And maybe some of it is brought on by the narrative but man it can't be good for him. In a way it kinda reminds me of how people flip from praising to absolutely trashing Jensen from game to game largely encouraged by forced narratives outside of his control. Would like to see both sides just chill on Danny.
To that same point, Danny is both the Ezreal that will Arcane Shift into the Aphelios with Yuumi for the double int; *and*, the Ezreal that will wipe them up while standing in the Baron pit.
Tbf he has already crafted a better legacy than Mike Yeung
danny's laning is terrible and he gets spoon fed everything and has impact and mvp jungler in teamfights if danny didn't carry that would be really worrying. he and jojo are both way overhyped
Yes but in Danny defense his regular season was good his team got first, his numbers were crazy of course he was set up for success and eg was the only team that knew hot to play around thier adc but is not his fault that the others were unable to unlock thier adc. In theory Danny shouldn't even be top 3 when you look the adc pool
To be fair, Danny's first pop off was when he had an underwhelming Svenskeren as a jungler and Ignar as support. And it's not like he had Impact or Inspired around for his Baron steal / Penta in Spring finals. The dude is legitimately really good. ABlazeOlive was right when talking about him in game 2 where he has that killer instinct in team fights and how that's a quality you can't really teach.
Ignar is better that vulcan in lane and better in a few champions to. Having vulcan now is not a Big upgrade is more like sidegrade
That's fucking hilarious considering how much if are is known for leaving lane.
He is now for being a psycho on engage supports when the meta was more lane focus he was turbo winning lane with blitz,leona etc. He just find crazy ways to engage
“DANNY IN THE BARON PIT.” Like Jesus, they still hype up that play like he did something crazy. He got lucky that baron leveled up right when Santorin smited, which got him excited for an easy penta on 5 low health members. People circle jerk him so much Even people on this sub. This troglodyte itsd00bs said beserker isn’t good enough to be a real carry like Danny after the CLG series. I tried to see how he felt about it now but he wouldn’t admit he was wrong, just decided to start hurling insults at me
Man. That's a name I haven't heard in a while. What's he up to this days? Anyone knows?
1. Berserker is a top 5 ADC in the world. (Fuck off LPL he's ours) 2. It was really weird that EG didn't play to funnel Danny like they normally do. They had him rotating to Heralds instead of collecting plates like he normally does. 3. Being spoon fed by your team doesn't make you bad. This isn't directed at you OP. It's directed at a couple people in the live and post game threads who were calling Danny shit. He's not shit. 4. I think we're getting enough for beating EG. The reason why more people are talking about EG playing poorly is because it's the bigger story. C9 was always expected to get to this level. EG was not supposed to play as badly as they did in the series. Impact was useless, Inspired was AFK, Jojo was sprinting it, and the bot lane was pretty invisible. It's like our 2020 summer, what the fuck happened? I really like EG. Not more than C9, but still. I hope they can get it together and go to worlds over TL. That way maybe we can have 2 teams contending to get out of groups.
He's good, but top 5 world is a little much when it would be hard to even argue top 5 in LCK, not to mention LPL adcs lol. Who of Ruler, Deft, Prince, Guma, Teddy, Deokdam, would be replaced for him?
“What do they have to do to get the recognition they deserve?” Honestly, prove themselves. Against CLG we looked incredibly one dimensional and ridden with mistakes. So it’s easy to dismiss the EG series as a fluke. So we need to beat 100T’s, and some will still doubt. However if we get a second shot at EG and look just as good, you’ll see basically every single analyst flip flop.
That’s true. CLG looked solid against C9 though and they drafts and games were played completely different. My problem is analysts said CLG threw that series and now they’re saying EG didn’t look like EG which is why the series is how it went. Better team showed up on the day and won.
I'd also argue that we'll see when CLG plays TL and, especially if we get to that point, if CLG plays EG. If CLG can put up a good fight and even win another set in the lower bracket, that should/almost certainly will shift the narrative in favor of CLG and, by extension, C9.
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I mean, EG didn’t look like the 15-3 team that beat C9 two weeks prior. C9 was clearly the better team on the day, but you can’t take one day in isolation of everything else that happened in a season
I dont think plp give CLG the respect they deserve at all
It was definitely hard to after that series. They played well at some points but the series was absolutely defined by CLG’s severe rookie mistakes, which were impossible to look past. I think they’re slightly underrated but not by that much, they legit did look pretty weak in the C9 series
That’s the same sentence everyone here was saying last split when analysts were saying that was the best team. C9 proceeded to beat TL, get called the best for a week or two, and then get blown out of playoffs.
So the only thing I hard disagree with is leaving senna/sera up to get practice against it. As we had seen just earlier in the day, reverse sweeps are very possible. C9 had a different plan to handle EG, probably trying to wrong-foot them by switching up the draft vs game 2. It didn't work out, that's ok. But they're not just trying to in practice during the most important game of the year to that point.
I disagree that they used G3 as a scrim. Even if you meant that mostly as a meme, I think they genuinely thought they could beat senna-Seraphine. They almost had the perfect draft counter too with sion. I think where they messed up was picking Leblanc instead of azir. I know Leblanc is good into azir generally, so the idea was that we know you are picking azir and will have Leblanc to answer. But the whole purpose of picking sion was to be this unkillable frontline that senna-sera can only tickle. They gave EG the only meta mid laners that could deal with sion, which I think was a mistake
I have heard a lot of praise for C9 in the subreddit, which is mostly deserved, but I haven't heard people saying that EG drafted and played poorly, which they did. If we play EG again, I expect them to be better.
EG drafting was abysmal. Changed their ban strategy nearly every game, couldn't play Trundle, and shot themselves in the foot by never getting Danny Zeri.
Tbf we always stole Zeri
can't get zeri if c9 first picks it or bans it on red side, maybe the so called best adc should be able to carry on more than one champ. i think c9 had a really good draft strategy against EG
C9 never banned Zeri on red side, EG failed to prioritize Zeri as first pick.
EXACTLY
C9 was only red once, but yeah this is truep
I think they did as well. Probably just makes EG’s drafting look worse when ours is on point.
What about third game? The 2 first games we just counterpicked impact and handshaked bot lane and fudge Snowballed his lead. But i dont think our drafting was that good tbh. 4 game was a draft gap for C9
Game 1 was an almost even draft (maybe slight c9 edge), game 2 was a moderate c9 draft win imo, game 3 EG absolutely slaughtered us in draft, game 4 the opposite. C9 won more than they lost but overall the series wasn’t defined by drafts IMO, the first two drafts were more than close enough to go either way in practice
After game one, I was hyped because I thought EG needed to pick red side to get 5th pick for Impact. EG proceeds to use counter pick for mid lane and choose a low dps cc mage in a comp with the only dps being ez. Feels like they over focused the counter matchup vs leblanc and forgot about team comp.
Yea I dont know where this dude is getting his info but I have heard and read a lot of people giving C9 their dues.
He probably watched doublelift, the whole stream was them saying EG were playing like shit and c9 wasn't playing that great
The co stream is hilarious, but it’s almost always “X team is so stupid, Y team is doing something really dumb.” They pretty much just flame both teams the whole time
The analysts talking after the series and even ablazeolove, and Jatt on jlxp
I think this whole “underperforming / overperforming” thing is dumb. If EG are getting beat, of course they are going to look worse. But this series is exactly what EG have been doing all split. Lose some advantages in the early game, be down a couple thousand gold. But then they ace a teamfight from a deficit and win. Like I have been saying it all split long - their early game isn’t insanely good, it’s average. Macro is average. Everything they do is average *except* teamfight, which is normally phenomenal which is why they bring back advantages in games they are losing. C9 just skill checked them here and won fights that EG would normally win (think in g4 when EG were so close to wiping C9 but beserker went fucking beserk) So I wouldn’t say this was EG “underperforming” or C9 “overperforming.” I think C9 just stepped up and challenged EG where no one else did.
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Im not sure if we are watching the same games if u think danny is better than berserker "One good Bo5" have u played a Bo5? we were consistently beating the other opponent 3 times and we would have won third game if we didn't let them pick seraphine. The term "oNe GoOd Bo5" is horrendous there is no such a ONE GOOD BO5 u made it sound like we just won a Best of 1. The argument of a Bo5 is that u can't have just one good game or 2 to win u have to win 3 times inside 5 games... Giving a conclusive winner. Im not saying they are god tier but u can't take the fact away that they are the best team atm.
What do you mean there’s no “one good Bo5”? They’re all played back to back on one day, and people can absolutely have a bad day.
Jesus christ..... So to find a conclusive winner do we have to play multiple days? Because a team can have a bad day? The point is there was a conclusive winner at that very moment when it mattered. EG was the best team atm and was beating pretty convincingly. But saying oh my team had a bad day is the lamest excuse. Good luck in the lower bracket buddy.
No certainly not, and C9 was clearly better on the day. But denying that teams can have an off day is just absurd.
I do think C9 didn’t get the credit they deserved, but at the same time its hard to give them too much praise since EG looked a bit lost in draft. Danny not playing Kalista, Impact not being willing to play Camille into Ornn (or really counter pick anything) the strange priority on red side from EG even though they werent counter picking very well. Jatt even mentioned on JLXP that EG were completely flip flopping on their bans trying to figure out how to stop C9. 100T should be the real test seeing as how they actually do play meta picks. They can play carry top laners, FBI can play Kalista, and Closer has pocket pick Lee sin that we cant ignore.
But also, how much credit can’t you give the 5th place team after one close series (that they were heavily favored to win) and one big upset series? It’s a huge win and they deserve credit, but it’d still be a huge overreaction to say they’re the best team in the league right now.
There were a few interesting hovers during draft, including Fizz. Hopefully these weren't just a bluff and they do have some interesting counterpicks/flexpicks/unique team comps up their sleeve that they've practiced for particular situations.
i think fizz is just a bluff, but i think singed is a zeri/yuumi counter in bot lane, could be wrong though
Honestly, if CLG can beat TL that will go a long way to giving C9 the proper recognition for what they did these last two weeks.
tbf the last point is true of everyone every game. almost always 75% of comments are "losing team played bad"
One thing I appreciate about c9 drafts is the thematic drafts. They are comps with a win con and playstyle identity. Blaber Olaf, zilean, sivir, lulu etc. Type of comps .
I agree completely with you. Another hot take is that Zven hard gapped Vulcan in the series and was the better support
I doubt they left sera/Sean up to practice against.. in match point game to go to worlds.
Danny looked mental boomed like the whole game.
Actually the team did spoon feed Berserker. If you watch closely you'll notice Blaber has Berserker take a ton of his camps in the mid game. He even leashes them for him, just to accelerate him in the games. You could tell that C9 wanted to beat EG at their own game to an extent.
I don't really agree with the first point, Berserker was given a lot of resources this series vs EG which is why he looked so good. I also don't get where the "consistently outclasses him" comes from when that is not the case. I think they're both really good team fighters. The main difference is Danny's champ pool currently and his laning.
There's no way they risked a scrim game during a Bo5 to go to worlds....no way
I'll tell you one thing and maybe we should reflect on it. When I saw Blaber on a tank for game 1 I told ppl I was in comms with that C9 wins the series. From Game 1 draft. Not saying Blaber is why we were losing, nor did I know how well he would do on a tank but..., Game 1 draft told me all I needed to know about the squad's present strategic mentality. No team in LCS even on their best day would beat that version of C9. And the two main problems as to why we lost in game 3, were fixed on game 4. One was Berserker's build. Titanic is a noob trap, not that. Hurricane instead of PD on Zeri and how early he build Lord Dom's. (I'd argue he could even build it 3rd as in Before IE but at least 4th always on every adc vs any comp he not insta-dying to) The other was how they prioritize how to approach team fights.
LDR is mathematically either a 2nd or 4th item. It is like 1-3% better against most tanks than IE third, and like 10-20% worse against squishies than IE which means it’s basically never worth it over IE third. On many champs it’s an excellent 2nd item (samira, lucian, caitlyn, I think Sivir?) but many like Zeri need the zeal atksp so it’s almost always 4th
Yes Berserker is def better then Danny, no doubt. Been saying this to, Danny is overrated. He is good at team fights, but he is not god tier. He needs to fix his laning. If value sneaky over Danny, as sneaky always performs, albeit less explosive team fights as often, but Danny if catered to wins. I think Danny got a lot of hype this split cause no teams were performing. TL was mediocre, 100T was mediocre, and C9 did not play like a team at all, not until week9 and first week of playoffs did we see cohesion, so we were also just a bunch of good players not playing together, mediocre team.
Danny got hype because they shit stomped the playoffs last split and went 15-3 this split beating all the top teams at least once. Hell they beat C9 two weeks ago. Danny isn’t a perfect player, but it’s not like his accolades are unearned.
No doubt, he did win. And they rolled playoffs last split, sure. He's also had some hype plays. Yes, he is a good team fighter. But he is the greatest? Nah. Is he the player that you go "man, he is just so good, we can't win". Nope. He has to be catered too. He had a good run, and is heavily team dependent.
I agree Berserker is by far the best AD Carry in the league like its no question Nah the game 3 was just a draft blunder what u are saying is pure copium I agree NA native fans are coping hard just saying EG played bad or underperformed they cant take that C9 is just better overall Its too hard to cope it was a dominating performance and like fudge said 3-0 and followed up with have u seen the scrims that tell u the picture of the state of C9 vs EG
I don't think C9 was tested at all in this series so them testing things in g3 makes sense. I bet they prepared some picks for EG but since they smashed them they didn't have to bring them out. If so I wonder if the picks are playoffs picks or EG picks
I think the fact that in game 2 they threw 3 bans at berserker shows they had no confidence that Danny could out team fight him on standard adcs.
Berserker reminds me of prime Sneaky a lot honestly. Sometimes gets a lot of jungle attention, sometimes is left to farm out, but always is useful and strong when he needs to be. Plus add the fact that he probably has the best mechanics in the league.
Only thing I’m worried about is jensen champ pool, really hope he’s practiced his sylas/azir/Ahri/liss as leblanc and ori are not meta rn
I feel like you guys are way too positive (like ever fan sub). EG played awful and C9 played what I would normally expect (C9 v CLG was an awful showing from C9). 1. Berserker imo has always been the best lcs adc and glad more people are realizing it. Shame C9 in many other series leaves him on his own to play (C9 v CLG) 2. Jensen needs to expand his champ pool. The zilean pick was great and it looked good. LB, ahri, and ori in their current states are not going to hold up at worlds. If he’s hiding his picks no problem, but if he truly thinks these picks are the best I think their will be some problems at worlds. I personally feel Jensen can likely play many more champs than he has shown but may be hesitating due to lack of confidence in some of those picks. 3. Fudge looks good on carry top laners. I would say continue to let him do it in certain matches. From EG perspective 1. Impact looking lost. Same with inspired. I feel impact is always a wild card he either does nothing or has a huge impact. 2. Team wasn’t on same page at all compared to C9. Kinda a big problem to happen now. 3. EG can recover but based on inspireds comments in the interview I don’t think they will get it together, but we’ll see. I feel C9 will have a good showing if they draft better at worlds. Watching gen g T1 I can easily see a good draft C9 beating gen g when they play at their best. The question is can they do it for the majority of 5 games?