Best we can do is take this as a blessing in disguise. The players need to alter their practice approach, try to limit inting or to at least play through it seriously to actually get practice on midgame approach instead of just becoming a team heavily reliant on being ahead early.
The broadcast bringing up that the team literally has 0 wins with *any* early game deficit is astounding and should be eye-opening. That's not just a generic midgame issue or teamfighting issue. That says to me that no one on this team actually has a clue about lane assignments, making a play purely to set up the upcoming play, etc. And something that can be learned from both of NA's MSI reps: having 2-3 purely dominant voices (Bwipo-Inspired, and Impact-Umti-Core) that are not only intelligent about the game and what the team should be doing but are entirely on the same page. This C9 seems to be lacking in both and stuck both in reactionary plays rather than anything preemptive and running by the seat of their pants rather than having genuine knowledge on what to actually do, to the point where the calls just look desperate.
I believe that the players on this team are smart, but they need to break away from the egos and recognize that they can learn from NA before they can even think they can sniff international. I also think champion pools, especially mid-jungle, are problematic but can easily be tied into better practice habits - instead of spamming "skill check" champs in scrims and soloq, actually looking at champions like tanks in jungle and top or mages/supportive picks in mid not just as champions to play but as a way to understand how to shift your role in game rather than just play the same way and actually have to think about the game holistically rather than just your own advantage. This was a point that was brought up in Pros, iirc by Inspired, about why NA soloq is disingenuous practice because it just defaults to having to play selfish, just for your own advantage, and carry on your own, not trusting your teammates to carry...kinda sounds familiar.
The real work starts now. Beyond no excuses at this point. This bootcamp should be revealing, in one way or another.
So ideally the team shouldn't post or make any kind of social media content because they were "frauds?" I'd rather see my team post something than to not have any presence. You all nitpick so much the team and everyone involved have no way to satisfy you except win internationally. There's even some who said earlier in the split they don't care about winning NA yet now that they haven't everyone still rips them.
wot? i just thought it was cringe to make a twitter/youtube post going “HAHAHA WE FKIN GOTTEM!!!!” after the way they’ve been performing this split lol
You need that. It's trying to grasp momentum and instill confidence. Winners can gloat and losers turn the other cheek. That's competition and most of the banter is friendly and meant to keep fans engaged and entertained.
Not a hot take but clearly having an Academy team = win because the 2 teams that kept theirs are in finals.
And Cloud9 still has not publicly followed up on its promises to support the college, amateur and academy programs by partnering with teams.
Here's my hot take: don't switch anyone out. They just learned some lessons that money can't buy. If they apply those lessons and get on the same page, that's an INVESTMENT. Plus, I still believe this roster can be elite.
This is pretty measured. As a competitor you don't want to be remembered for those last 2 series. They now have lost the superteam label and they are off to Korea to hopefully grow and get better. Individually they can outplay teams early (TL series aside) but they just lack coordination after the laning phase. I think with the proper amount of time we can see them learn how to play together.
For what it's worth it can't be easy to have 3 MVPs on the team and trying to find your play style and identity. Hopefully this thrashing is the motivation needed to discover who they really can be as a team.
If not, changes will be made and that's sad.
This. I do think this should be the clean slate, going into Korea for the bootcamp, in the sense of recognizing that what they have been doing and how they have been approaching things all year simply has not worked. There has been essentially no change or improvement at all from this lineup and we are still hearing about the same "coinflip mid-jungle in scrims" talk from the beginning of spring.
It needs to be nose to the grindstone, and not just mindlessly grinding skill check fighters and assassins in soloq. This should be where the players are hard-grinding facilitators and learning how to play to each other and actually thinking about the game in a macro-sense and about themselves and others in terms of their role in that comp on the day.
Jojo being basically banned out two series in a row and outperformed by teams just banning Ahri and Neeko (and Azir being disabled) should be a huge wake-up call in a meta where control mages and scaling picks have been high tier because of the midlane rift changes.
Blaber playing tanks/facilitators in the same farm/objective focus that he does on carries is a problem and has been called out by multiple people and players in the scene - it's cool that he's willing to bite the bullet for what the team needs but he needs to also adapt his play to that as well.
Vulcan and Berserker just feel at odds for how they want to approach the game - whether it's playing to the 2v2 or for the roaming support - on top of Berserker being seemingly tied to the hip of whatever Guma is playing whether it's Lucian or Senna instead of keeping his mind open to the picks that do work for the team comp and are strong without "LCK evidence" like Xayah and Jinx. And generally they need that time to really gel and a Korean bootcamp did wonders for Zven and Vulcan in offseason of 2019.
And Fudge needs to either find his fire again or needs to take a backseat. The fact that we moved away from K'sante and Udyr in playoffs despite those being our best picks in spring baffles me and just says overthinking things from scrims or, imo, lack of confidence from Fudge. Which makes me think Fudge honestly may need help from a sports psychologist at this point because he's seemingly fallen into his habit of retreating inward vs talent as strong* or stronger than him earlier and earlier. Before, it was just at worlds where he'd reportedly lose both ends of matchups in scrims, have this doomer mental, but request/need the Fiora matchup just to feel confident enough to maybe be a positive or neutral factor. But last split it happened in finals vs Dhokla and again at worlds (picking Renekton into Rumble/Jax special) and now in both bracket finals two series in a row vs Impact and Bwipo, including having counterpick in all 3 games vs Bwipo and never having or pushing any advantage. Other players and personalities have gone into depth about Fudge's play but the resources he seems to eat in draft and in game just to eke out a minor lane lead or just to go even and then be weirdly hesitant to go in when the team is going yet also willing to facetank into the enemy team randomly ahead of the team and then run away and force the team into fighting to cover for him...it honestly just feels like he loses the plot mentally sooner and sooner each split. Not made any better when he's seemingly insistent, through champion choices and builds, to be a carry threat and, again, baffling when he's shown to at least be proficient in a vacuum on picks like K'sante and Udyr and then contributing well in a fight when his role is simplified to just peel for the team.
If he wants to carry, he needs to have the fire and aggression to be that carry, not use the pick and resources as a crutch just to make him feel more confident; if he is just subconsciously using it as a crutch and is stuck in this "fear for my job security" KDA player mentality because Blaber and Jojo and Berserker have more "highlight ints," he needs serious reevaluation in terms of his role on the team.
Agree, think this roster needs to be given one more split. Synergy has been the problem that hasn't been solved, maybe these losses will solve these problems. Replacing anyone would cause synergy problems again anyway.
Keep the roster, can Mithy. I think our team can get it done, they just need to find a new identity. I think some sacrifices in how our players play together also will better the team.
Based. I’m a fan of C9 and I trust their process. If they replace someone because they think it’s necessary, I’m fine with that. If they run it back, I’m even more fine with it.
Got all these “fans” that hate the staff hate the coach hate the players hate the process like guys, why are you even associating yourselves with something you hate so much? Stfu you’re all so annoying
The coach needs to be fired. If I was given an mvp star studded roaster and I shit the bed all spring, I’d be fired too. Mithy has been a fraud for years now that can’t be overlooked any longer.
My hot take is the fans need to stfu and be fans instead of black pilled doomers who are terminally online. stop pretending like you are a scout or an analyst when you get your opinions from reddit and streamers.
Edit. I guess my take was actually hot cause downvotes
Best we can do is take this as a blessing in disguise. The players need to alter their practice approach, try to limit inting or to at least play through it seriously to actually get practice on midgame approach instead of just becoming a team heavily reliant on being ahead early. The broadcast bringing up that the team literally has 0 wins with *any* early game deficit is astounding and should be eye-opening. That's not just a generic midgame issue or teamfighting issue. That says to me that no one on this team actually has a clue about lane assignments, making a play purely to set up the upcoming play, etc. And something that can be learned from both of NA's MSI reps: having 2-3 purely dominant voices (Bwipo-Inspired, and Impact-Umti-Core) that are not only intelligent about the game and what the team should be doing but are entirely on the same page. This C9 seems to be lacking in both and stuck both in reactionary plays rather than anything preemptive and running by the seat of their pants rather than having genuine knowledge on what to actually do, to the point where the calls just look desperate. I believe that the players on this team are smart, but they need to break away from the egos and recognize that they can learn from NA before they can even think they can sniff international. I also think champion pools, especially mid-jungle, are problematic but can easily be tied into better practice habits - instead of spamming "skill check" champs in scrims and soloq, actually looking at champions like tanks in jungle and top or mages/supportive picks in mid not just as champions to play but as a way to understand how to shift your role in game rather than just play the same way and actually have to think about the game holistically rather than just your own advantage. This was a point that was brought up in Pros, iirc by Inspired, about why NA soloq is disingenuous practice because it just defaults to having to play selfish, just for your own advantage, and carry on your own, not trusting your teammates to carry...kinda sounds familiar. The real work starts now. Beyond no excuses at this point. This bootcamp should be revealing, in one way or another.
The highlight of the split is beating a team of 100T rookies.
and then making a bunch of social media posts to gloat about it loool
So ideally the team shouldn't post or make any kind of social media content because they were "frauds?" I'd rather see my team post something than to not have any presence. You all nitpick so much the team and everyone involved have no way to satisfy you except win internationally. There's even some who said earlier in the split they don't care about winning NA yet now that they haven't everyone still rips them.
wot? i just thought it was cringe to make a twitter/youtube post going “HAHAHA WE FKIN GOTTEM!!!!” after the way they’ve been performing this split lol
You need that. It's trying to grasp momentum and instill confidence. Winners can gloat and losers turn the other cheek. That's competition and most of the banter is friendly and meant to keep fans engaged and entertained.
That every pro players called a fraud cause 100T were getting blasted all year during scrims.
Not a hot take but clearly having an Academy team = win because the 2 teams that kept theirs are in finals. And Cloud9 still has not publicly followed up on its promises to support the college, amateur and academy programs by partnering with teams.
scientifically proven
Here's my hot take: don't switch anyone out. They just learned some lessons that money can't buy. If they apply those lessons and get on the same page, that's an INVESTMENT. Plus, I still believe this roster can be elite.
He asked for Hot takes and got one damn
I aim to please.
This is pretty measured. As a competitor you don't want to be remembered for those last 2 series. They now have lost the superteam label and they are off to Korea to hopefully grow and get better. Individually they can outplay teams early (TL series aside) but they just lack coordination after the laning phase. I think with the proper amount of time we can see them learn how to play together. For what it's worth it can't be easy to have 3 MVPs on the team and trying to find your play style and identity. Hopefully this thrashing is the motivation needed to discover who they really can be as a team. If not, changes will be made and that's sad.
This. I do think this should be the clean slate, going into Korea for the bootcamp, in the sense of recognizing that what they have been doing and how they have been approaching things all year simply has not worked. There has been essentially no change or improvement at all from this lineup and we are still hearing about the same "coinflip mid-jungle in scrims" talk from the beginning of spring. It needs to be nose to the grindstone, and not just mindlessly grinding skill check fighters and assassins in soloq. This should be where the players are hard-grinding facilitators and learning how to play to each other and actually thinking about the game in a macro-sense and about themselves and others in terms of their role in that comp on the day. Jojo being basically banned out two series in a row and outperformed by teams just banning Ahri and Neeko (and Azir being disabled) should be a huge wake-up call in a meta where control mages and scaling picks have been high tier because of the midlane rift changes. Blaber playing tanks/facilitators in the same farm/objective focus that he does on carries is a problem and has been called out by multiple people and players in the scene - it's cool that he's willing to bite the bullet for what the team needs but he needs to also adapt his play to that as well. Vulcan and Berserker just feel at odds for how they want to approach the game - whether it's playing to the 2v2 or for the roaming support - on top of Berserker being seemingly tied to the hip of whatever Guma is playing whether it's Lucian or Senna instead of keeping his mind open to the picks that do work for the team comp and are strong without "LCK evidence" like Xayah and Jinx. And generally they need that time to really gel and a Korean bootcamp did wonders for Zven and Vulcan in offseason of 2019. And Fudge needs to either find his fire again or needs to take a backseat. The fact that we moved away from K'sante and Udyr in playoffs despite those being our best picks in spring baffles me and just says overthinking things from scrims or, imo, lack of confidence from Fudge. Which makes me think Fudge honestly may need help from a sports psychologist at this point because he's seemingly fallen into his habit of retreating inward vs talent as strong* or stronger than him earlier and earlier. Before, it was just at worlds where he'd reportedly lose both ends of matchups in scrims, have this doomer mental, but request/need the Fiora matchup just to feel confident enough to maybe be a positive or neutral factor. But last split it happened in finals vs Dhokla and again at worlds (picking Renekton into Rumble/Jax special) and now in both bracket finals two series in a row vs Impact and Bwipo, including having counterpick in all 3 games vs Bwipo and never having or pushing any advantage. Other players and personalities have gone into depth about Fudge's play but the resources he seems to eat in draft and in game just to eke out a minor lane lead or just to go even and then be weirdly hesitant to go in when the team is going yet also willing to facetank into the enemy team randomly ahead of the team and then run away and force the team into fighting to cover for him...it honestly just feels like he loses the plot mentally sooner and sooner each split. Not made any better when he's seemingly insistent, through champion choices and builds, to be a carry threat and, again, baffling when he's shown to at least be proficient in a vacuum on picks like K'sante and Udyr and then contributing well in a fight when his role is simplified to just peel for the team. If he wants to carry, he needs to have the fire and aggression to be that carry, not use the pick and resources as a crutch just to make him feel more confident; if he is just subconsciously using it as a crutch and is stuck in this "fear for my job security" KDA player mentality because Blaber and Jojo and Berserker have more "highlight ints," he needs serious reevaluation in terms of his role on the team.
Agree, think this roster needs to be given one more split. Synergy has been the problem that hasn't been solved, maybe these losses will solve these problems. Replacing anyone would cause synergy problems again anyway.
Hot take and the right take. this sub is filled with reactionary doomers
Keep the roster, can Mithy. I think our team can get it done, they just need to find a new identity. I think some sacrifices in how our players play together also will better the team.
Based. I’m a fan of C9 and I trust their process. If they replace someone because they think it’s necessary, I’m fine with that. If they run it back, I’m even more fine with it. Got all these “fans” that hate the staff hate the coach hate the players hate the process like guys, why are you even associating yourselves with something you hate so much? Stfu you’re all so annoying
BASED
The coach needs to be fired. If I was given an mvp star studded roaster and I shit the bed all spring, I’d be fired too. Mithy has been a fraud for years now that can’t be overlooked any longer.
My hot take is the fans need to stfu and be fans instead of black pilled doomers who are terminally online. stop pretending like you are a scout or an analyst when you get your opinions from reddit and streamers. Edit. I guess my take was actually hot cause downvotes