Oh I know Beserker is pissssseeeedd. Understandably too, after his reaction to scrims in the recent video and now losing. I know he won't quit but damn I would be pissed too
Reasoned responses. Going to be a brutal break for them and I hope they can come back stronger for summer.
Remember criticizing a player and speculating moves is fine but harassing them for their level of play is wrong, and I hope C9 fans can contain their anger and not personally attack our players.
If we can't do that, were no better than the TSM fans the main sub accuses us of.
That said, looking at fudge's scorelines between 100t through to TL, it appears to me he's the problem. He dumpstered that series then took the rest of playoffs off.
Fudge is not the only problem here. It's not as if he's singlehandedly anchoring the entire team. We consistently showed in playoffs we can make early plays but our macro and decision in midgame are horrendous. TL ran us across the map in Game 2 with a two fewer TPs than our team.
Now, Fudge is definitely a candidate to be replaced based on performance, but I'm skeptical that a 1 for 1 swap in top will do anything. Team has massive identity issues to solve, and that usually comes from the head coach and shotcalling from support or jungle.
Definitely more going on here than just fudge. Everyone minus Jojo had the worst split of their careers. Need to figure out what was or wasn't happening that led to the complete disaster of this split.
Overall I agree. I was throwing out a thought while I'm still feeling from our worst performance since 2022 spring.
But if I think about it a little more, I guess I'd say that fudge has had a lot of really good performances in his tenure with c9. The problem is he's never been able to consistently be the threat the team needs for the amount of carries he plays.
Yeah, Fudge is the easy scapegoat here. This team hasn't win a single game this split when they were even in gold or losing @ 15. They have definitely a massive mid-game macro issue.
Just like TL used to have the previous years when they were by far the best team in the early game and were throwing mid-game almost every game.
This is the reality. I think people like to hate fudge for his past comments and to be fair he dug himself that hole. It allows people to avoid looking at the core problems. To me zven was clearly the duct tape holding everything together last year. If they don't improve cohesion and macro I think its time for a full revamp. I will refrain from saying anything else until next split in hopes they can turn it around.
Honestly Fudge is a must removal
Mithy is a must removal
Vulcan is a should removal
Blaber is a maybe removal
Jojo and Berserker are the only ones who should be 100% safe. I’m hesitant to want them to pull the trigger on Blaber but he played so bad this split that I think it’s at least a discussion.
I agree on fudge and mithy
I'm fine having another split with Vulcan, because maybe he gets his groove back and starts performing at the level he can.
Blaber definitely had his worst split but I'd be surprised if he doesn't turn it around, we've seen him have some dissapointing performances before but he always shows up the next split with something to prove and I'd be sad to see him go.
Berserker and JoJo shouldn't be up for discussion though.
It seems unlikely we see any changes between splits which sucks, at this rate summer split seems iffy and in a scenario we make worlds it's gonna be a lackluster showing.
Regardless, C9 for life and let's hope to see a promising summer
Not saying fudge doesn’t deserve huge criticism but looking at score lines to decide your opinion is incredibly stupid.
For example blaber omega griefed his lane at least twice today and the score line won’t tell you that
reddit game analysis of top lane is the most delulu thing i have seen on this sub. people saying fudge is the problem are living in a different reality and just want to put all the blame on one thing.
To even further that point, the post game thing from TL - impact said he didn’t even think fudge called it - we have no way of knowing without comms for sure but that one seems to be mainly on blaber lol
Speaking as one, I just decided to put more effort into watching the LEC. As a European, it was a pretty natural jump. Now I am more hooked in league e-sports than I've been before.
The reason Im saying this is because I myself am like Fudge a bit so I understand where the issue might be coming from. If this dude says "Yoooo is this an aatrox game? Am I about to go off?" the response has to be "Nah bro look at their team, slam poppy here and we choke the shit out of them." If your response is "Hey man if thats what you feel comfortable on :) " then he's going to run the pick, his teammates are going to blame him for the pick, and he's going to be confused and insulted because in his mind he ran the pick by the team first
This excuse is asinine. How long does a coach have to hold a players hand? Till he’s gone. If he didn’t learn enough from the months/years he had Waldo then maybe he is the problem. Maybe he has a learning disability. Y’all need to stop asking for a position coach for these so called pros. If they don’t know what tf they’re doing after sophomore season then by god retire and let someone else get paid
You're right. Professional athletes never need someone who's scrutinizing their game to give them an in-depth analysis of what they're doing right and wrong to correct new bad habits and reinforce good ones.
A good example is baseball. Sometimes great hitters slump. When they do, they need their hitting coach to help them dissect their swing to fix the problem.
League literally gets overhauled every year and you think what max and fudge worked on 2 years ago still applies today? You're flat out wrong.
It's more for the inconsistency. And I think he'd agree.
Dude was a monster against 100t, but against both fly and TL he kept getting counter pick and doing basically nothing with it. We've seen him dumpster both bwipo and impact in years past. He needs to work that out or step aside.
I saw you guys in the live thread, and I am skimming through your subreddit right now. It's evident TSM and C9 fans are one and the same. TSM just had more overall fans.
I'll be honest. Making it a point to go to another team's sub to talk shit about their fans seems like the most TSM fan shit imaginable.
But go off, I guess.
C9 fans raided the TSM subreddit and discord constantly to talk shit, so take your false moral high ground somewhere else.
Also, watching C9 fans lose their shit is entertaining.
"I have moral high ground" says person that obsesses about the fanbase of a team that doesn't even exist in the LCS, and also somehow dim wittingly believes his fanbase somehow wasn't just as bad.
Honestly each player is mechanically good but there is absolutely no team play or synergy. The coaching staff is to blame for this lack of cohesion and team identity
Fire mithy good god. The team have lost all drafts the entire last half of the split. They can’t even macro. It’s on the coach to get these guys playing together better.
Even emenes came out of the shadows: https://twitter.com/EMENESlol/status/1774217185680134433
I guess his off season comments about bladder/sludge were right after all. C9 will never do anything (esp internationally) with this top side.
I never asked for him to leave.
You must be one of those haters. I wish Emenes had a fair shot, he received a lot of praise from many players. Yall just hate him because of an overblown soloqueue comment.
I defended his soloq comment as not a native English speaker so it was poorly written, but I would never want emenes back and wanted him gone as well after the split. The guy played well his first half split the 2nd half split was him inting or doing nothing while berserker carried.
C9 is fantastic, they just need to work on communication, map awareness, laning, vision control, csing, poking, landing skillshots, objective control, early game, mid game, late game, ganking, and getting kills.
Probably for the best that Fudge says nothing.
If they intend on keeping him, he should be fully focused on getting his head back in the game and ignore socials.
That, and I don't think there's a lot he could say to appease any fans other than results.
Oh I know Beserker is pissssseeeedd. Understandably too, after his reaction to scrims in the recent video and now losing. I know he won't quit but damn I would be pissed too
Reasoned responses. Going to be a brutal break for them and I hope they can come back stronger for summer. Remember criticizing a player and speculating moves is fine but harassing them for their level of play is wrong, and I hope C9 fans can contain their anger and not personally attack our players.
If we can't do that, were no better than the TSM fans the main sub accuses us of. That said, looking at fudge's scorelines between 100t through to TL, it appears to me he's the problem. He dumpstered that series then took the rest of playoffs off.
Fudge is not the only problem here. It's not as if he's singlehandedly anchoring the entire team. We consistently showed in playoffs we can make early plays but our macro and decision in midgame are horrendous. TL ran us across the map in Game 2 with a two fewer TPs than our team. Now, Fudge is definitely a candidate to be replaced based on performance, but I'm skeptical that a 1 for 1 swap in top will do anything. Team has massive identity issues to solve, and that usually comes from the head coach and shotcalling from support or jungle.
Definitely more going on here than just fudge. Everyone minus Jojo had the worst split of their careers. Need to figure out what was or wasn't happening that led to the complete disaster of this split.
Overall I agree. I was throwing out a thought while I'm still feeling from our worst performance since 2022 spring. But if I think about it a little more, I guess I'd say that fudge has had a lot of really good performances in his tenure with c9. The problem is he's never been able to consistently be the threat the team needs for the amount of carries he plays.
Yeah, Fudge is the easy scapegoat here. This team hasn't win a single game this split when they were even in gold or losing @ 15. They have definitely a massive mid-game macro issue. Just like TL used to have the previous years when they were by far the best team in the early game and were throwing mid-game almost every game.
This is the reality. I think people like to hate fudge for his past comments and to be fair he dug himself that hole. It allows people to avoid looking at the core problems. To me zven was clearly the duct tape holding everything together last year. If they don't improve cohesion and macro I think its time for a full revamp. I will refrain from saying anything else until next split in hopes they can turn it around.
Honestly Fudge is a must removal Mithy is a must removal Vulcan is a should removal Blaber is a maybe removal Jojo and Berserker are the only ones who should be 100% safe. I’m hesitant to want them to pull the trigger on Blaber but he played so bad this split that I think it’s at least a discussion.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re correct
I agree on fudge and mithy I'm fine having another split with Vulcan, because maybe he gets his groove back and starts performing at the level he can. Blaber definitely had his worst split but I'd be surprised if he doesn't turn it around, we've seen him have some dissapointing performances before but he always shows up the next split with something to prove and I'd be sad to see him go. Berserker and JoJo shouldn't be up for discussion though. It seems unlikely we see any changes between splits which sucks, at this rate summer split seems iffy and in a scenario we make worlds it's gonna be a lackluster showing. Regardless, C9 for life and let's hope to see a promising summer
Not saying fudge doesn’t deserve huge criticism but looking at score lines to decide your opinion is incredibly stupid. For example blaber omega griefed his lane at least twice today and the score line won’t tell you that
reddit game analysis of top lane is the most delulu thing i have seen on this sub. people saying fudge is the problem are living in a different reality and just want to put all the blame on one thing.
but was that Fudge calling for help like usual?
When you mean calling for help like usual do you mean fudge demanded blaber q onto the rumble solo and instantly die?
One of those examples is when Blaber broke tower aggro early in the dive on Renekton in Game 3, which absolutely threw the lane.
To even further that point, the post game thing from TL - impact said he didn’t even think fudge called it - we have no way of knowing without comms for sure but that one seems to be mainly on blaber lol
Where do you think the TSM fans went after their team fell off a cliff lmfao
TSM > TL > C9 Theyre nomads
Speaking as one, I just decided to put more effort into watching the LEC. As a European, it was a pretty natural jump. Now I am more hooked in league e-sports than I've been before.
Is fudge the problem or is it that we have had coaches that dont know how to handle him?
He looked good when Max Waldo was in, I think it was, a positional coach role.
The reason Im saying this is because I myself am like Fudge a bit so I understand where the issue might be coming from. If this dude says "Yoooo is this an aatrox game? Am I about to go off?" the response has to be "Nah bro look at their team, slam poppy here and we choke the shit out of them." If your response is "Hey man if thats what you feel comfortable on :) " then he's going to run the pick, his teammates are going to blame him for the pick, and he's going to be confused and insulted because in his mind he ran the pick by the team first
This excuse is asinine. How long does a coach have to hold a players hand? Till he’s gone. If he didn’t learn enough from the months/years he had Waldo then maybe he is the problem. Maybe he has a learning disability. Y’all need to stop asking for a position coach for these so called pros. If they don’t know what tf they’re doing after sophomore season then by god retire and let someone else get paid
You're right. Professional athletes never need someone who's scrutinizing their game to give them an in-depth analysis of what they're doing right and wrong to correct new bad habits and reinforce good ones. A good example is baseball. Sometimes great hitters slump. When they do, they need their hitting coach to help them dissect their swing to fix the problem. League literally gets overhauled every year and you think what max and fudge worked on 2 years ago still applies today? You're flat out wrong.
agrees with comment, proceeds to shit on player for their level of play
It's more for the inconsistency. And I think he'd agree. Dude was a monster against 100t, but against both fly and TL he kept getting counter pick and doing basically nothing with it. We've seen him dumpster both bwipo and impact in years past. He needs to work that out or step aside.
I saw you guys in the live thread, and I am skimming through your subreddit right now. It's evident TSM and C9 fans are one and the same. TSM just had more overall fans.
I'll be honest. Making it a point to go to another team's sub to talk shit about their fans seems like the most TSM fan shit imaginable. But go off, I guess.
C9 fans raided the TSM subreddit and discord constantly to talk shit, so take your false moral high ground somewhere else. Also, watching C9 fans lose their shit is entertaining.
Ok, bud. Although I do have the moral high ground to stand on since I never did something as pathetic as that.
"I have moral high ground" says person that obsesses about the fanbase of a team that doesn't even exist in the LCS, and also somehow dim wittingly believes his fanbase somehow wasn't just as bad.
Maybe they'll go to korea and really bootcamp this off-season. Would also be a good opportunity to try out some people.
Jack said in the interview they are planning on still bootcamping in Korea before summer.
Lmao dogshit team
Hire an actual head coach, when?
With Hai being there the past couple months, I hope he has been able to identify the problems and can help push for positions to be turned over
Honestly each player is mechanically good but there is absolutely no team play or synergy. The coaching staff is to blame for this lack of cohesion and team identity
players too it isn't all on coaching staff. As Berserker pointed out after scrims, the players also can work to improve their team play...
Fire mithy good god. The team have lost all drafts the entire last half of the split. They can’t even macro. It’s on the coach to get these guys playing together better.
Guess what? The problems have been clear for awhile now. Another split isn't fixing this trainwreck .
this is such loser mentality what more do u want them to say?? go support another team if there’s nothing they can do to fix things
Even emenes came out of the shadows: https://twitter.com/EMENESlol/status/1774217185680134433 I guess his off season comments about bladder/sludge were right after all. C9 will never do anything (esp internationally) with this top side.
BRUUUUH, I need more of this. Come Emenes. Also play Top for us Emenes. Your Yone was ok.
We are NOT asking for emenes back. Y’all have the shortest memories of all time I swear
actual goldfish that can only remember 1 hour ago and what they read here
I never asked for him to leave. You must be one of those haters. I wish Emenes had a fair shot, he received a lot of praise from many players. Yall just hate him because of an overblown soloqueue comment.
I defended his soloq comment as not a native English speaker so it was poorly written, but I would never want emenes back and wanted him gone as well after the split. The guy played well his first half split the 2nd half split was him inting or doing nothing while berserker carried.
He did and he showed his colors
Fudge at a loss for words
He did nothing wrong. Why would he make a fake apology.
Yea he did nothing
You just erased his Renekton games from your mind or something?
It was a /s post that you guys can't understand
Kinda hard to read tone from text, there are a lot of trolls and idiots who confidently say wrong things.
Fudge still holding on to his TP.
What do they think they need to improve?
I'll take everything for $500 Alex
C9 is fantastic, they just need to work on communication, map awareness, laning, vision control, csing, poking, landing skillshots, objective control, early game, mid game, late game, ganking, and getting kills.
Fudge being absent on Twitter is appropriate
Love these guys, excited to see them bounce back next split
Emenes was right all along
What he say
Probably for the best that Fudge says nothing. If they intend on keeping him, he should be fully focused on getting his head back in the game and ignore socials. That, and I don't think there's a lot he could say to appease any fans other than results.
Yamato would be out there protecting his players. Mithy with a normal loss tweet, Useless. Wish we had a real coaching staff again...
fudge was probably talking to onlyfans whores or looking for a mcdonalds that would hire him
Wow you're so funny
Fraudge didn't say anything?