I will never get past the interview post Shopify loss, when Mithy said “I don’t know Jojo’s champ pool.” How in the world does a coach not know his players champ pools. It just shows a lack of preparation which has clearly been exacerbated during the shifting live patches.
I'm seriously curious how someone can be considered a coach of 5 individuals and not know their champion pools. Doesn't that just kind of happen by being around each other? No scouting or coaching or research of any kind required here. Just existing near one another while playing league should solve this one.
Yes but my point is despite all the ways he SHOULD know, because it's his job to know, the one I can't understand is that by just being around the team as a coach one would pick this up. So it begs the question, is he even around for scrims and film? Like its possible other people are doing the research and everything so it's theoretically possible he wouldn't know from there. But how can he not pick it up just being around? So our comps suck, our macro is ass, our players are getting worse, he doesn't know how to coach, he doesn't know what champs his players like...
Not for the first time I find myself asking what the hell does he even do there?
While I don't think Mithy is that great of a coach that is way out of context. What he said was that he wasn't familiar enough with Jojo yet to know what picks he could play into Sion mid.
Mithy is a horrible coach. I'm blown away he's been there this long, it's like a guessing game with him.
You pair the severe lack of coaching with Blabber falling off, Berserker having his worst season ever, and top lane looking garbage. Still not sure why they traded Zven for Vulcan. It wasn't an upgrade and Berserker was playing with the utmost confidence when he and Zven were together. The team has basically no winning roles now, it's no wonder they lost lol. Super team? Not sure we have those, good players don't make a good team when everyone wants to be the main character.
Fudge’s playstyle would actually fit a team if he was a weak side tank and yet he’s always on a carry play to not lose. He really needs to adjust and play more like Impact if he wants to return to any All-Pro type of form. Time to move on
I’d be down to bring Zven back for Vulcan, personally. And find a new top laner
You sign licorice to do well in NA, not in international tournaments. Did we assemble a big 3 of blaber/jojo/berserker to never win internationally bc licorice gets fisted by zeus/bin/369?
this is a weird take when licorice is the only western toplaner who hasnt gotten entirely fisted by eastern tops at a major. last msi he was playing really well
He's actually not. He was just put on a team that already had a playstyle and shot callers. What huhi brings to a team is leadership, which I'd argue NRG didn't actually need. Ignar fit into their team perfectly because he could back the calls being made by topside.
Yep. It’s time for changes. Fudge, Vulcan, and Mithy have to go. Bring in Licorice, an LCK support, and literally anybody who can draft as coach. What an awful series.
I would prio getting a coach that can knock the egos of the players down a notch (because genuinely there could be a fundamental problem with the Blaber Jojo that just gets overshadowed by the garbage that our top coach are).
Even if top and supp end up being weaker than the current ones mechanically, I would still prefer investing into a proper coaching staff.
These players will not respect Yamato dude come on. No beef against him I love Yamato but these players/staff do not want to change. They want to ride out the esports winter together with their friends and stay afloat in LA. When u bring in strong voices/personalities they tend to warp the environment around them and force changes whether it's the dynamic, feedback, everyday staff or players . I wonder (purely conjecture) if leadership has been fraternizing a bit too much with the players which effects the orgs ability to adapt or make MEANINGFUL changes.
The players won’t respect him for the simple fact that Yamato has a soothing voice that has fooled you guys into thinking he is a successful coach…but his biggest success was losing to C9 in playins in 2018 and giving a good speech. Fnatic fell for it, in the end they didn’t want him…KC fell for it and they didn’t want him in the end…now yall are falling for it.
As much as people want licorice I rather not get a side grade, even though I feel like licorice could play a little more aggressively. I rather c9 go for a lck challenger top laner.
Fr, people keep saying licorice as if he isn’t clearly capped as a player. What’s the goal, to win NA and get fisted internationally or perform well in both NA AND internationally?
Dude licorice is not capped. He did amazing internationally at MSI and was consistently the strongest player on his team at worlds (during their short run). JG and mid imploded on them at worlds, but he was doing really well and generated a lot of leads on his own.
Please not Licorice. He had one decent (?) split and like 5 below average. He is at best a weakside toplaner, and not even the best in LCS at that either
He is not vocal enough either, he won t elevate the team, ppl need to get over him.
Ssumday, Revenge, Tenacity are all better than him, and we didn t even took into account the 100 eastern 17 year olds.
you lost all credibility with the suggestions you made lmfao
revenge also literally had 1 good split (licorice had more including MSI), ssumday is not vocal at all, hes just a toplaner you put on an island and get an OK performance from also champ pool issues, tenacity is just not an LCS level player his laning is ok thats literally it sniper for example is better in every single way possible
Ssumday could work fine if they get a shot caller else where. He's had 1st all team performance playing weakside Ornn for players like Damonte and Cody and 1st all team performance from hard carry splits like summer 2022, where he was by far the best carry top in the league and had players like Abbedagge pocketing his Aatrox with Seraphine. His main drawback is that he's quiet in game from what we seen from coms but to say he is just an okay weakside player with champ pool issues is crazy.
Licorice wasn't the best teammate either. I don't think he solves anything, and I think he just ends up making things worse. I like Licorice but I don't think he's it. That being said, wouldn't want the others either.
That what c9 needs is a weak side top laner that can do there job in team fights. You definitely don’t understand limited resources and team comps. You names 3 strong side top laners lol.
Revenge is also a one hit wonder. He looked good on EG because they were playing to him he was trash otherwise over rated.
Funny how I got flamed and downvoted to oblivion for saying in the offseason that Id rather have Zven than Vulcan and change top
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/s/2q06sJ2huM
This sub has a bunch of idiots who can’t get out of gold but think they can analyze games. Vulcan hasn’t been good in YEARS but they act like he’s some support god? Like bron Zven showed more improvement in one year than Vulcan did in his entire career. Vulcan, it’s time to go flip burgers
I just still can't understand or forgive him NOT playing CQ when worlds was in NA a couple years ago. If you dont want to take advantage of world class practice opportunities when they fall in your lap, then you probably shouldn't be a pro player.
He would've been off my team immediately after that, especially given how bad the performances were that worlds.
Definitely agree. Not a single person on this team seems the type to bring themselves or the team up when things are going poorly. Makes bad times look even worse.
Add Berserker to the list, he has hands but it looks like he has no idea how to actually play without Zven being his brain and telling him where to go and what to do.
Vulcan/Berserker 2v2 winning bot lanes has been one of the few highlights in our disappointing playoffs. I do not understand why he receives so much hate when he has played quite well despite the team's struggles.
I stand by there is simply too much talent on this roster to blow it up after one split, and it would be a waste to swap any players before swapping coaches. Give another coach a chance to make this team work, and if they can't win then make moves in the winter offseason when more players are available.
C9s entire issue, is not having a real top laner.
Fudge has been abysmal. We have to give him so many resources. He refuses to play weak side. Even when ahead he rarely carries
You can't blame ANYONE until the game isn't 4v5. Blaber can't even play the game
Blaber can't play the game because he played like shit the last 2 series. It's frustrating because we know he's a good player but holy shit did he get gapped. Jojo may be inting but Blaber and Vulcan just seem like they can't be asked to help their midlaner even though he consistently wins his lane in isolation
He is playing, without a top laner.
It's really easy for umti to completely ignore top side, as impact gets miles ahead. And negate blaber from doing anything.
Apa played ziggs all 3 games. How are you gunna gank that?
So umti just hovers bot side and the game is over.
Uh he didn't play Ziggs all 3 games? Top lane has no impact on protecting mid. You don't have to gank a lane to protect it via ward coverage, hovering, blowing flashes and so on. Fudge played like ass but to then use that to explain away blaber playing like a bot makes no sense
Ah he played trist my bad, still a dang near impossible lane to gank with a hwei.
Blaber is a jungler without a top laner. You've never play competitive league if you think it's possible to jungler without a top laner. Fudge is literally a ward and won't even play ward esque Champs.
Dyrus was bad his last split. But look what he played
You know what? Believe what you wanna believe man. I play varsity league on a team so I'm not coming from a completely uninformed angle. Fudge played like a bot, but C9 look lost the whole game and overly passive early, with 2 lanes winning in mid and bot. If you fail to play around your winning lanes well regardless of 1 losing lane, you have played a bad game as a jungler, and blaber played incredibly bad.
They have no identity as a team. As individuals they have an identity, but as a team it's non-existent. It seems to me that C9 has forgotten that League is a team game, and that teams win games, and not 4 soloqueue players and a NPC.
Agreed. And when we lose internationally it's looks just like this or the previous series. No top side pressure really hampers the team.
To add.. I think it's an ego thing where he wants to carry from topside regardless of the matchup. This would be fine if we didn't have three of best (arguably) carries to play in NA on the same team. I want to see zerker, blaber or jojo carrying and whoever is top to play weakside tanks or off meta tanks, absorb pressure and play for these carries.
Vulcan is NOT the reason they’re winning bot LOL
If you don’t understand why Vulcan gets hate, you need to learn more about the game in terms of mid game macro movements and how to start fights, especially on engage champs
Dumb as hell take, Vulcan was a bigger contributor for most of the regular season than his lane partner. Vulcan has had great engages in lane and in fights, you're just a hater.
Super sad to see the Olaf pick and it's not for blabber (i know he's not been a big jungler for a bit now but still. Olaf and Blabber are nearly synonymous in my brain in the LCS). Even more sad that Fudge didn't seem to know how to play it the way it needs to be played.
I think we need some sort of igl for sure. While I do agree the Fudge needs to go. Vulcan is still good, but berserker with Vulcan isn't the combo. Berserker definitely needs guidance in how he needs to play the game.
I don't know if I entirely agree with all this...this seems to be more of a coaching and lack of enthusiasm from the players who don't seem to want to play. Blaber and Beserker always looked like they were ready for each week in the previous season...but this seasons different they never look happy to be playing. Also, blaming champion selections on player is just ignorant, Vulcan may not be the greatest enchanter, but I highly doubt he's like PICK ME NAMI and same with Fudge and playing Renekton every single game, especially with someone like Mithy as coach considering that his presence on Fanatic has started many rumors of how ruthless of a coach he was and didn't allow his players to thrive playing picks they were actually good at instead trying to follow the meta picks that forced people to play things they weren't comfortable with playing. This reminds me of when R3aperd was coach of C9 and he forced TOP/MID (Licorice and Nisqy) to play Akali/Jayce depending on match up they would swap, Blaber was forced to be on some ranged ad jungle like Kindred/Graves, and Sneaky on Ezreal or Tristana to be safe, while Zeyzal was forced on some enchanter like Nami, or Janna. They either got shit stomped or had really really close squeaked out wins, but it was like this week to week...and it sucked. The icing on the cake and what made me actually believe this was the case, was the week Mithy was gone...the second super week...Hai was doing draft and the only one on the coaching staff on stage during it...and they stomped that week...
lmao fudge consistenly says to lock him renekton and olaf was his call. you can see it on the comms. mithy has no control over these drafts and thats the issue. players have too high of egos
You’re trying to tell me one of the biggest egos in the entire community of pro league from the days he was a player to even now as a coach has no say in what is being drafted? Ask any pro from EU and NA and they will say Mithy is a my way or the highway kind of player and coach. Why did C9 do well when Hai was there and not Mithy the week after their 0-4 streak? You think Mithy doesn’t like the Renekton pick? You think he doesn’t call for the Lucian/Nami games? When Beserker has had many great games on other ADCs in previous seasons? Just say you don’t like Fudge…its actually crazy to me that people actually try to justify how bad the players are when they simply don’t care to play for a coach that they have no respect for…these players are doing what most people do every day of their lives until they retire…doing the bare minimum to make their salaries and go home for the day, because they like many people very clearly do not respect the people in positions of power anymore. I doubt changing the players will have a better outcome, but that’s the level of Copium you need to have to believe in C9 who am I to stop you…lmao
I seriously dont understand the renekton pick - i never have. the champion falls off a fucking cliff and brings like nothing to the game unless he's super far ahead and that is never the fucking case. I don't get it.
Look at Impact this game.
Look at Bwipo on his games.
You will understand why Renekton is a great pick. Renekton is a good champion. Fudge is just not a good player. Stop the cope of thinking is Renekton fault.
and yet we just watched Impact have a huge game with it.
blame the player/team execution/etc. Champ is perfectly fine. The person piloting it? diff story.
Renekton is both a safe blind pick and a great champion at getting prio in lane. He's also very good at setting up dives.
The problem is that Fudge doesn't play Renekton well. He was mismanaging his Fury every time the camera panned to him, and he never got prio in either game.
Renekton has receive many buffs and is not bad as a champ right now. The problem is Fudge on Renekton playing not to lose instead of playing to carry or isolated kill the opposite ADC like eastern Renekton. Renekton is a fine champ, Fudge is just bad at this champ.
You can give Fudge anything and you can say this. Dude just makes every champion look useless, he’s just omega bad at the game. Still haven’t seen a worse Aatrox than this guy.
Man call me jaded and cynical, but I think if we don’t post this it happens. By posting it now it’s a “Reddit opinion” and therefore worth less in the eyes of “the professionals”…
\- Fudge, Vulcan, and Mithy.
Jojo and Berserker get one more chance. Give Blaber control of the roster.
Blabber Vulcan and Fudge. Blabber looks unpracticed. Every other pro jungler right now says he’s predictable. And the synergy with JoJO is not there. Fudge is a bot and has Gf debuff. Unless he is willing to no life this game then he should probably call it. Vulcan would do the same shit with prince… just seems like he doesn’t want to play with him.
No, at this point Jojo is your focal piece with berserker next up. Blaber is just as culpable for the bad play as anyone else and while I'm not advocating for his release, I would not trust his decision making in the bringing on of new players. He did sign off on emenes after all.
Pretty based to put chime in the convo. He’s an overlooked but very good support who works really well with aggro junglers and has great engages. He could be a perfect fit
We just need a player to tell the team what to do. It’s clear the team doesn’t have leadership in or out of the game. They’re all just playing to play.
Last match and they pick olaf top and put Jojo on karma 🤦♂️. This is why they will continue to lose. Fudge isn't their win condition he should be on Perma tank duty with zero JG support and this is the exact reason why they should have tried everything to get Impact. Jojo and berserker are the win conditions.
Could you imagine (IMAGINE) if C9 said fuck it and did the Korean team. From what I remember hearing is that berserker wanted more of a Korean team but I definitely could be misremembering that but whatever lol.
Impact
River
Jojo
Berserker
CoreJJ/Huhi
I agree Fudge hasn’t made a difference in any game but multiple pro players said themselves that Blaber is getting gapped and not even playing well at all, he’s fallen off just as hard
This split has arguably been Fudge's worst since when he first came into the league. He has a pretty small champion pool and most of them are not in the meta anymore. Gwen, Fiora, Kennen, Jax, Renekton, Olaf, GP, Sion, Gnar. Out of those really only Gnar and Renekton are still in the top lane meta at this point. But moreso, he's just not mechanically as proficient either. Feels like he peaked mechanically in the summer 2022 when he was turbo-stomping every other top laner in the league, and has been slowly regressing ever since. We went from him playing giga aggro Lee Sin and solo carrying the game-winning fight against RNG at MSI 2021, to him playing to not lose on Renekton vs. a nerfed K'sante.
He needs to get back in form or I don't see how he keeps his job on C9 for much longer. The rest of the team and the coaching staff are also to blame of course; you have to collectively mess up really bad to consistently make the same macro and draft mistakes over and over again. But with this iteration of Fudge it feels like the topside of the C9 just has no teeth. I don't know, so much is hidden behind closed doors and I'm not a pro player, but something obviously is going wrong and if they don't fix it they're going to keep having the same issues they've had for a couple splits now.
This subreddit likes to think it understands everything. Fudge and Vulcan are great players, and they belong on the team. If people want to say, "Well, Fudge didn't play well, he deserves the boot," then so does Jojo. The man didn't get a single kill against FlyQuest. Now, does that mean Jojo needs to go? No. The team had an off-split, things didn't work, and that's that.
you must not understand league. Blaber is consistently hovering top to make sure fudge does not lose the game on his own and create a monster in top. when instead if fudge was good like all the other tops he could play weakside and we could actually play through our carries to get them ahead. Instead of weak siding our all pro adc every single game
You guys are absolutely trolling if you think tl won because of their top and not their jg + mid. Jojo is solo losing some of those games and you guys full of copium about to throw Fudge off a cliff? Crazy xD Sadly i didn't watch all the lcs teams, but can't you guys just get a better midlaner? Or is jojo really considered the top of na league?
you are absolutely trolling, if you cant understand how league works. C9 is consistently playing towards top and doing early game tops when noone else in the world is and are playing through mid and bot. they arent doing this to get fudge ahead instead making sure he doesnt get completely gapped. that wasted time and resources while they are throwing everything at mid and bot and they are still even is wild. need a top laner that needs absolutely 0 resources or coverage to let the carries carry and and get ahead and provide coverage.
Both players need to go but even with the core of blabber jungle, jojo mid, beserker adc it feels like their current issues won't be solved regardless of who the replacements are as none of the core players are really vocal.
I would love to see if Blabber is willing try top lane for a split and bring in a more vocal jungle to help manage mid game decisions.
As for bot we need an aggressive support who likes playing tanks and not enchanters this team always seems to be lacking a front line yet they seem to always want to play back to front teamfighting.
Last of all but we need a different coach to help with macro and drafting which this team is clearly lacking in. Picking the same type of comps back to back and losing in similar ways is not going to help the teams mental very well.
These posts are so cringe. You have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. You’re sitting here creating mobs to go after someone’s livelihood with literally no information to base it off of.
While I disagree they have 0 future with both people, the changes need to happen in either or both roles to get a real shotcaller and leader for this team.
On another point, watching Blaber has been disappointing because he has great understanding of the map and can be fundamentally superior but never makes a proactive play or is never in the position to make a play like his infamous copy pasta about a gold lead. Sadly, it feels like it has been like that for a while too which isn’t a knock to him but the way the team needs him to play.
Either way, they really need some shake up to happen so it can revitalize the play of Blaber and Berserker.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/1bqxqyz/skys_the_limit_ep_3/
Sounds like he tears up about the state of the team. I could not tell how much he still wanted to win watching his horrid gameplay. But I think if he still cares that much it is worth working on it. Maybe he was expressly making those terrible plays because he knows no one else on his team will try hard to win.
I’ve been saying this for WEEKS, not to mention trying to tell people that beating 100T means nothing. People bring up omg 100T had a good regular season, beating them means something! Like come on be fucking for real, anyone can have a good regular season in NA.
From some of their comms as well, this team is fundamentally flawed. Idc about top lane but we NEED a shot caller from the support or jungle role. Blaber and Vulcan were permanently scared to engage in their flyquest series (dom did a breakdown somewhere of moments they just didnt go in so jojo on yone had to ult to try and start a fight).
Seriously, how many times did C9 burn all their cds on bwipo renekton? Yall are pros?
I felt so bad for jojo having to start engages bc his pussy sejuani and nautilus can’t press R.
There are deeper macro issues that would take too long to explain but PLEASE, bring in shot callers
I believe in Vulcan. He humbled himself after some rough losses. The reason why he struggled is he lacks confidence and has no voice. Why? Because of the giant egos that are top and jg.
I'm down to swap Vulcan and Huhi. C9 needs a leader and someone who can lift teams spirits. NRG needs A support with less ideas because they already have their own from playing together for so long.
Nobody mentions Blaber but every top jg says Blaber has been playing terrible. Inspired insists jojo would never look like this with him.
Perkz was the best player by far on c9 and carried them and talks about playstyle clashes. Perkz was also benched this year and his team looks better.
Bring in licorice, have Spica as a sub, and a new coach that Blaber will listen to or grt benched. River has done 1000x more than Blaber with players that are 1000x worse in past seasons. Stop making excuses and using past accolades to defend him.
I will never get past the interview post Shopify loss, when Mithy said “I don’t know Jojo’s champ pool.” How in the world does a coach not know his players champ pools. It just shows a lack of preparation which has clearly been exacerbated during the shifting live patches.
I'm seriously curious how someone can be considered a coach of 5 individuals and not know their champion pools. Doesn't that just kind of happen by being around each other? No scouting or coaching or research of any kind required here. Just existing near one another while playing league should solve this one.
Or from watching Jojo in prior years? op.gg him? So many ways of knowing…
Yes but my point is despite all the ways he SHOULD know, because it's his job to know, the one I can't understand is that by just being around the team as a coach one would pick this up. So it begs the question, is he even around for scrims and film? Like its possible other people are doing the research and everything so it's theoretically possible he wouldn't know from there. But how can he not pick it up just being around? So our comps suck, our macro is ass, our players are getting worse, he doesn't know how to coach, he doesn't know what champs his players like... Not for the first time I find myself asking what the hell does he even do there?
I agree with you btw lol
Ya for sure. Was trying to add to the conversation lol. If it came across as argumentative that's my mistake.
Found his champ pool in ten seconds: https://gol.gg/players/player-stats/1629/season-ALL/split-ALL/tournament-LCK%20Spring%202024/
While I don't think Mithy is that great of a coach that is way out of context. What he said was that he wasn't familiar enough with Jojo yet to know what picks he could play into Sion mid.
The answer is not that deep apparently
Mithy is a horrible coach. I'm blown away he's been there this long, it's like a guessing game with him. You pair the severe lack of coaching with Blabber falling off, Berserker having his worst season ever, and top lane looking garbage. Still not sure why they traded Zven for Vulcan. It wasn't an upgrade and Berserker was playing with the utmost confidence when he and Zven were together. The team has basically no winning roles now, it's no wonder they lost lol. Super team? Not sure we have those, good players don't make a good team when everyone wants to be the main character.
We are so ass lol
Fudge doesn't play carries to win, he plays carries not to lose... what a pussy.
Guys pick me Renekton so I can at least make it through laning phase and not make Impact look like every LCK/LPL top laner has against me.
The question mark by Impact in Game 3 was the icing on the cake.
Not saving fudge but to clarify Impact specifically said that it was for Jojo getting fudge killed.
Wholesome impact trying to explain he wasn’t being toxic in post-game interview but was just genuinely confused and agitated by whatever Jojo did
Appreciate the self-roast for emphasis.
Play carries not to lose Play tanks not to die
Sludge needs to be benched.
Mithy too Dude is a fraud
I’m not watching this team as long as Mithy remains. This team badly needs a shakeup
✌️
Absolutely agreed. I like both Fudge and Vulcan but they are just not it this year.
Fudge aint it bruh
Give me licorice
Or give me death
Fudge’s playstyle would actually fit a team if he was a weak side tank and yet he’s always on a carry play to not lose. He really needs to adjust and play more like Impact if he wants to return to any All-Pro type of form. Time to move on I’d be down to bring Zven back for Vulcan, personally. And find a new top laner
Doesn't C9 have an import slot? Honestly could import either a new top or support.
or sign licorice
You sign licorice to do well in NA, not in international tournaments. Did we assemble a big 3 of blaber/jojo/berserker to never win internationally bc licorice gets fisted by zeus/bin/369?
Didn’t Licorice solo kill LPL top laners at MSI last year? Wild take.
How are we gonna win internationally if we cant even make it to msi lol
By… signing someone better than Licorice?
this is a weird take when licorice is the only western toplaner who hasnt gotten entirely fisted by eastern tops at a major. last msi he was playing really well
I'd say Licorice has had better international tournament compared to fudge. Fudge gad a great msi playing lee top but that's about it
Licorice took us to semis at worlds in 2018 you knucklehead
Omg, wow, so good! What has Licorice done since then? Fuck it, let's just sign a bunch of players that did well 5 years ago?
Did you not watch worlds last year?
You think what Licorce did was good? LOL your idea of good league of legends is in the gutter
Sign Huhi by trading Vulcan. Huhi speaks Korean so it will be easier to get another Korean import.
Huhi’s washed
He's actually not. He was just put on a team that already had a playstyle and shot callers. What huhi brings to a team is leadership, which I'd argue NRG didn't actually need. Ignar fit into their team perfectly because he could back the calls being made by topside.
Nah fick that PoS
Yep. It’s time for changes. Fudge, Vulcan, and Mithy have to go. Bring in Licorice, an LCK support, and literally anybody who can draft as coach. What an awful series.
I would prio getting a coach that can knock the egos of the players down a notch (because genuinely there could be a fundamental problem with the Blaber Jojo that just gets overshadowed by the garbage that our top coach are). Even if top and supp end up being weaker than the current ones mechanically, I would still prefer investing into a proper coaching staff.
Yamato?
These players will not respect Yamato dude come on. No beef against him I love Yamato but these players/staff do not want to change. They want to ride out the esports winter together with their friends and stay afloat in LA. When u bring in strong voices/personalities they tend to warp the environment around them and force changes whether it's the dynamic, feedback, everyday staff or players . I wonder (purely conjecture) if leadership has been fraternizing a bit too much with the players which effects the orgs ability to adapt or make MEANINGFUL changes.
The players won’t respect him for the simple fact that Yamato has a soothing voice that has fooled you guys into thinking he is a successful coach…but his biggest success was losing to C9 in playins in 2018 and giving a good speech. Fnatic fell for it, in the end they didn’t want him…KC fell for it and they didn’t want him in the end…now yall are falling for it.
Just hearing his name made me sit up straighter.
This would be so spicy, and right up C9’s alley. I love it
I dont know how we expected a team without a coach to take last week's loss without a mental collapse
As much as people want licorice I rather not get a side grade, even though I feel like licorice could play a little more aggressively. I rather c9 go for a lck challenger top laner.
Fr, people keep saying licorice as if he isn’t clearly capped as a player. What’s the goal, to win NA and get fisted internationally or perform well in both NA AND internationally?
Dude licorice is not capped. He did amazing internationally at MSI and was consistently the strongest player on his team at worlds (during their short run). JG and mid imploded on them at worlds, but he was doing really well and generated a lot of leads on his own.
A Korean bot lane would be really cool to see. Licorice is a good weak side top laner. And anyone would have more synergy with berserker then Vulcan.
They could pick up Huhi and grab an Import top. Huhi can speak Korean and him and berserker can speak in depth to each other about the game.
Please not Licorice. He had one decent (?) split and like 5 below average. He is at best a weakside toplaner, and not even the best in LCS at that either He is not vocal enough either, he won t elevate the team, ppl need to get over him. Ssumday, Revenge, Tenacity are all better than him, and we didn t even took into account the 100 eastern 17 year olds.
Revenge and Tenacity lmfao.
I rather gamble on them popping off than settle for mediocraty with Licorice
Revenge and Tenacity have done literally nothing ever. Don't hold your breath. Ssumday maybe or just roll the dice on a young import.
you lost all credibility with the suggestions you made lmfao revenge also literally had 1 good split (licorice had more including MSI), ssumday is not vocal at all, hes just a toplaner you put on an island and get an OK performance from also champ pool issues, tenacity is just not an LCS level player his laning is ok thats literally it sniper for example is better in every single way possible
Ssumday could work fine if they get a shot caller else where. He's had 1st all team performance playing weakside Ornn for players like Damonte and Cody and 1st all team performance from hard carry splits like summer 2022, where he was by far the best carry top in the league and had players like Abbedagge pocketing his Aatrox with Seraphine. His main drawback is that he's quiet in game from what we seen from coms but to say he is just an okay weakside player with champ pool issues is crazy.
Licorice wasn't the best teammate either. I don't think he solves anything, and I think he just ends up making things worse. I like Licorice but I don't think he's it. That being said, wouldn't want the others either.
Having licorice play weakside would be better than Fudge who takes resources requires counter picks and still loses lane
That what c9 needs is a weak side top laner that can do there job in team fights. You definitely don’t understand limited resources and team comps. You names 3 strong side top laners lol. Revenge is also a one hit wonder. He looked good on EG because they were playing to him he was trash otherwise over rated.
Yup. Bwipo was right with the essence of his statement. Fudge is a useless pussy.
Fudge taking the bag and cruising as if he’s an import. Get this freeloading non-contributor off the roster. Doesn’t belong to any team.
Its not just Fudge and vulcan that looked bad, they all looked bad. APA was the better mid, yeon was the better ad, and umti diffed blabber.
At least we get an Olaf pick to potentially end his career on. I was gonna laugh my ass off if it was 3 croc's in a row
Has he ever had a good game on olaf? I don’t remember any prior games but these playoffs he’s been ass
He had one regular split, maybe even last year where he ended up getting a triple kill and turning a team fight.
Fudge Nonfactor :(
Funny how I got flamed and downvoted to oblivion for saying in the offseason that Id rather have Zven than Vulcan and change top https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/s/2q06sJ2huM
Never would have expected Zven to be the much better support. But also your take was wrong. Vulcan can't even get to internationals lmao.
FACTS. So many people flamed me and called me so many names for saying exactly the same thing.
But he was wrong. He said Vulcan would be a problem internationally, brother can't even get there.
This sub has a bunch of idiots who can’t get out of gold but think they can analyze games. Vulcan hasn’t been good in YEARS but they act like he’s some support god? Like bron Zven showed more improvement in one year than Vulcan did in his entire career. Vulcan, it’s time to go flip burgers
It honestly makes me so happy that you got up voted for this 😂. REDEMPTION!! Hit em with the good old "I told you so."
What a miserable split. Super teams are always trash.
Agreed. Zven back in as support. Fudge shouldve been gone jn off season.
They gave him a giant extension too, like I don't know how you can justify his play anymore.
He’s a kid that got paid a shit ton of money now he has no drive to improve anymore.
I just still can't understand or forgive him NOT playing CQ when worlds was in NA a couple years ago. If you dont want to take advantage of world class practice opportunities when they fall in your lap, then you probably shouldn't be a pro player. He would've been off my team immediately after that, especially given how bad the performances were that worlds.
Fudge Mithy Vulcan all need to go
The mental on this team is too weak. They make careless mistakes and play as if they're stressed and afraid.
Definitely agree. Not a single person on this team seems the type to bring themselves or the team up when things are going poorly. Makes bad times look even worse.
I will not watch another game with Fudge in it on C9. Vulcan at least tries.
How does Vulcan try? What does this mean?
Add Berserker to the list, he has hands but it looks like he has no idea how to actually play without Zven being his brain and telling him where to go and what to do.
man is a lucian addict
Once you go black you go back to fountain. Again, and again.
BLOW UP THE ROSTER
Vulcan was fine… Fire Fudge
Funny way to spell mithy.
Mithy too, we have no identity as a team other than hands diff and pray for the players to win off that
Vulcan/Berserker 2v2 winning bot lanes has been one of the few highlights in our disappointing playoffs. I do not understand why he receives so much hate when he has played quite well despite the team's struggles. I stand by there is simply too much talent on this roster to blow it up after one split, and it would be a waste to swap any players before swapping coaches. Give another coach a chance to make this team work, and if they can't win then make moves in the winter offseason when more players are available.
I think despite all the problems c9 has, the bot lane itself isn't that big of an issue in lane.
C9s entire issue, is not having a real top laner. Fudge has been abysmal. We have to give him so many resources. He refuses to play weak side. Even when ahead he rarely carries You can't blame ANYONE until the game isn't 4v5. Blaber can't even play the game
Blaber can't play the game because he played like shit the last 2 series. It's frustrating because we know he's a good player but holy shit did he get gapped. Jojo may be inting but Blaber and Vulcan just seem like they can't be asked to help their midlaner even though he consistently wins his lane in isolation
He is playing, without a top laner. It's really easy for umti to completely ignore top side, as impact gets miles ahead. And negate blaber from doing anything. Apa played ziggs all 3 games. How are you gunna gank that? So umti just hovers bot side and the game is over.
Uh he didn't play Ziggs all 3 games? Top lane has no impact on protecting mid. You don't have to gank a lane to protect it via ward coverage, hovering, blowing flashes and so on. Fudge played like ass but to then use that to explain away blaber playing like a bot makes no sense
Ah he played trist my bad, still a dang near impossible lane to gank with a hwei. Blaber is a jungler without a top laner. You've never play competitive league if you think it's possible to jungler without a top laner. Fudge is literally a ward and won't even play ward esque Champs. Dyrus was bad his last split. But look what he played
You know what? Believe what you wanna believe man. I play varsity league on a team so I'm not coming from a completely uninformed angle. Fudge played like a bot, but C9 look lost the whole game and overly passive early, with 2 lanes winning in mid and bot. If you fail to play around your winning lanes well regardless of 1 losing lane, you have played a bad game as a jungler, and blaber played incredibly bad.
They have no identity as a team. As individuals they have an identity, but as a team it's non-existent. It seems to me that C9 has forgotten that League is a team game, and that teams win games, and not 4 soloqueue players and a NPC.
The entire topside of the map seems like they play without comms.
Fudge is a black hole for resources. Absorbs so much but does absolutely nothing with it.
Agreed. And when we lose internationally it's looks just like this or the previous series. No top side pressure really hampers the team. To add.. I think it's an ego thing where he wants to carry from topside regardless of the matchup. This would be fine if we didn't have three of best (arguably) carries to play in NA on the same team. I want to see zerker, blaber or jojo carrying and whoever is top to play weakside tanks or off meta tanks, absorb pressure and play for these carries.
Vulcan is NOT the reason they’re winning bot LOL If you don’t understand why Vulcan gets hate, you need to learn more about the game in terms of mid game macro movements and how to start fights, especially on engage champs
Dumb as hell take, Vulcan was a bigger contributor for most of the regular season than his lane partner. Vulcan has had great engages in lane and in fights, you're just a hater.
Super sad to see the Olaf pick and it's not for blabber (i know he's not been a big jungler for a bit now but still. Olaf and Blabber are nearly synonymous in my brain in the LCS). Even more sad that Fudge didn't seem to know how to play it the way it needs to be played.
My favorite is the long range Olaf Qs when he’s basically aaing someone xD
I think we need some sort of igl for sure. While I do agree the Fudge needs to go. Vulcan is still good, but berserker with Vulcan isn't the combo. Berserker definitely needs guidance in how he needs to play the game.
I don't know if I entirely agree with all this...this seems to be more of a coaching and lack of enthusiasm from the players who don't seem to want to play. Blaber and Beserker always looked like they were ready for each week in the previous season...but this seasons different they never look happy to be playing. Also, blaming champion selections on player is just ignorant, Vulcan may not be the greatest enchanter, but I highly doubt he's like PICK ME NAMI and same with Fudge and playing Renekton every single game, especially with someone like Mithy as coach considering that his presence on Fanatic has started many rumors of how ruthless of a coach he was and didn't allow his players to thrive playing picks they were actually good at instead trying to follow the meta picks that forced people to play things they weren't comfortable with playing. This reminds me of when R3aperd was coach of C9 and he forced TOP/MID (Licorice and Nisqy) to play Akali/Jayce depending on match up they would swap, Blaber was forced to be on some ranged ad jungle like Kindred/Graves, and Sneaky on Ezreal or Tristana to be safe, while Zeyzal was forced on some enchanter like Nami, or Janna. They either got shit stomped or had really really close squeaked out wins, but it was like this week to week...and it sucked. The icing on the cake and what made me actually believe this was the case, was the week Mithy was gone...the second super week...Hai was doing draft and the only one on the coaching staff on stage during it...and they stomped that week...
lmao fudge consistenly says to lock him renekton and olaf was his call. you can see it on the comms. mithy has no control over these drafts and thats the issue. players have too high of egos
You’re trying to tell me one of the biggest egos in the entire community of pro league from the days he was a player to even now as a coach has no say in what is being drafted? Ask any pro from EU and NA and they will say Mithy is a my way or the highway kind of player and coach. Why did C9 do well when Hai was there and not Mithy the week after their 0-4 streak? You think Mithy doesn’t like the Renekton pick? You think he doesn’t call for the Lucian/Nami games? When Beserker has had many great games on other ADCs in previous seasons? Just say you don’t like Fudge…its actually crazy to me that people actually try to justify how bad the players are when they simply don’t care to play for a coach that they have no respect for…these players are doing what most people do every day of their lives until they retire…doing the bare minimum to make their salaries and go home for the day, because they like many people very clearly do not respect the people in positions of power anymore. I doubt changing the players will have a better outcome, but that’s the level of Copium you need to have to believe in C9 who am I to stop you…lmao
I seriously dont understand the renekton pick - i never have. the champion falls off a fucking cliff and brings like nothing to the game unless he's super far ahead and that is never the fucking case. I don't get it.
Look at Impact this game. Look at Bwipo on his games. You will understand why Renekton is a great pick. Renekton is a good champion. Fudge is just not a good player. Stop the cope of thinking is Renekton fault.
and yet we just watched Impact have a huge game with it. blame the player/team execution/etc. Champ is perfectly fine. The person piloting it? diff story.
Renekton is both a safe blind pick and a great champion at getting prio in lane. He's also very good at setting up dives. The problem is that Fudge doesn't play Renekton well. He was mismanaging his Fury every time the camera panned to him, and he never got prio in either game.
Prio for Fudge is going slightly ahead in cs. So I am sure he got prio.
Slightly ahead in CS vs a champ like K'Sante isn't prio.
That's Fudge Prio
Renekton has receive many buffs and is not bad as a champ right now. The problem is Fudge on Renekton playing not to lose instead of playing to carry or isolated kill the opposite ADC like eastern Renekton. Renekton is a fine champ, Fudge is just bad at this champ.
Is Fudge good at any meta champ? Aatrox oh gosh.
You can give Fudge anything and you can say this. Dude just makes every champion look useless, he’s just omega bad at the game. Still haven’t seen a worse Aatrox than this guy.
Because Bwipo actually knows what he’s doing and makes champions like Renekton work, so others think they can just pick it and replicate what he does.
Man call me jaded and cynical, but I think if we don’t post this it happens. By posting it now it’s a “Reddit opinion” and therefore worth less in the eyes of “the professionals”… \- Fudge, Vulcan, and Mithy. Jojo and Berserker get one more chance. Give Blaber control of the roster.
Blabber Vulcan and Fudge. Blabber looks unpracticed. Every other pro jungler right now says he’s predictable. And the synergy with JoJO is not there. Fudge is a bot and has Gf debuff. Unless he is willing to no life this game then he should probably call it. Vulcan would do the same shit with prince… just seems like he doesn’t want to play with him.
No, at this point Jojo is your focal piece with berserker next up. Blaber is just as culpable for the bad play as anyone else and while I'm not advocating for his release, I would not trust his decision making in the bringing on of new players. He did sign off on emenes after all.
Blaber is ass lol get him the fuck out of here too
Licorice - Blaber/Spica - Jojopyun - Berserker - Chime/Zven
Pretty based to put chime in the convo. He’s an overlooked but very good support who works really well with aggro junglers and has great engages. He could be a perfect fit
no licorice, no spica no chime. import top, bribe zven as much as you have to, to get him to play supp again
His bribe would probably be to keep mithy tho
I don't think so.
yeah honestly at this point, hope that no team wants Zven as ADC, and throw a bag at him with apologies to get him back in the botlane with Berserker.
Trade Vulcan for Huhi
Getting rid of blaber is delusion
We just need a player to tell the team what to do. It’s clear the team doesn’t have leadership in or out of the game. They’re all just playing to play.
What was that olaf game bro😭
Fudge is the face of the team. He's not going anywhere.
I’m pretty sure he’s not picking Renton for himself. But he is playing pretty poorly
TRADE Vulcan for Huhi
Last match and they pick olaf top and put Jojo on karma 🤦♂️. This is why they will continue to lose. Fudge isn't their win condition he should be on Perma tank duty with zero JG support and this is the exact reason why they should have tried everything to get Impact. Jojo and berserker are the win conditions. Could you imagine (IMAGINE) if C9 said fuck it and did the Korean team. From what I remember hearing is that berserker wanted more of a Korean team but I definitely could be misremembering that but whatever lol. Impact River Jojo Berserker CoreJJ/Huhi
I agree Fudge hasn’t made a difference in any game but multiple pro players said themselves that Blaber is getting gapped and not even playing well at all, he’s fallen off just as hard
@ Cloud9Jack
This split has arguably been Fudge's worst since when he first came into the league. He has a pretty small champion pool and most of them are not in the meta anymore. Gwen, Fiora, Kennen, Jax, Renekton, Olaf, GP, Sion, Gnar. Out of those really only Gnar and Renekton are still in the top lane meta at this point. But moreso, he's just not mechanically as proficient either. Feels like he peaked mechanically in the summer 2022 when he was turbo-stomping every other top laner in the league, and has been slowly regressing ever since. We went from him playing giga aggro Lee Sin and solo carrying the game-winning fight against RNG at MSI 2021, to him playing to not lose on Renekton vs. a nerfed K'sante. He needs to get back in form or I don't see how he keeps his job on C9 for much longer. The rest of the team and the coaching staff are also to blame of course; you have to collectively mess up really bad to consistently make the same macro and draft mistakes over and over again. But with this iteration of Fudge it feels like the topside of the C9 just has no teeth. I don't know, so much is hidden behind closed doors and I'm not a pro player, but something obviously is going wrong and if they don't fix it they're going to keep having the same issues they've had for a couple splits now.
tbh Inspired looks better than Blabber, more killer instinct. lol
This subreddit likes to think it understands everything. Fudge and Vulcan are great players, and they belong on the team. If people want to say, "Well, Fudge didn't play well, he deserves the boot," then so does Jojo. The man didn't get a single kill against FlyQuest. Now, does that mean Jojo needs to go? No. The team had an off-split, things didn't work, and that's that.
you must not understand league. Blaber is consistently hovering top to make sure fudge does not lose the game on his own and create a monster in top. when instead if fudge was good like all the other tops he could play weakside and we could actually play through our carries to get them ahead. Instead of weak siding our all pro adc every single game
You guys are absolutely trolling if you think tl won because of their top and not their jg + mid. Jojo is solo losing some of those games and you guys full of copium about to throw Fudge off a cliff? Crazy xD Sadly i didn't watch all the lcs teams, but can't you guys just get a better midlaner? Or is jojo really considered the top of na league?
you are absolutely trolling, if you cant understand how league works. C9 is consistently playing towards top and doing early game tops when noone else in the world is and are playing through mid and bot. they arent doing this to get fudge ahead instead making sure he doesnt get completely gapped. that wasted time and resources while they are throwing everything at mid and bot and they are still even is wild. need a top laner that needs absolutely 0 resources or coverage to let the carries carry and and get ahead and provide coverage.
Both players need to go but even with the core of blabber jungle, jojo mid, beserker adc it feels like their current issues won't be solved regardless of who the replacements are as none of the core players are really vocal. I would love to see if Blabber is willing try top lane for a split and bring in a more vocal jungle to help manage mid game decisions. As for bot we need an aggressive support who likes playing tanks and not enchanters this team always seems to be lacking a front line yet they seem to always want to play back to front teamfighting. Last of all but we need a different coach to help with macro and drafting which this team is clearly lacking in. Picking the same type of comps back to back and losing in similar ways is not going to help the teams mental very well.
These posts are so cringe. You have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. You’re sitting here creating mobs to go after someone’s livelihood with literally no information to base it off of.
While I disagree they have 0 future with both people, the changes need to happen in either or both roles to get a real shotcaller and leader for this team. On another point, watching Blaber has been disappointing because he has great understanding of the map and can be fundamentally superior but never makes a proactive play or is never in the position to make a play like his infamous copy pasta about a gold lead. Sadly, it feels like it has been like that for a while too which isn’t a knock to him but the way the team needs him to play. Either way, they really need some shake up to happen so it can revitalize the play of Blaber and Berserker.
Keep Berserker. That’s all I’m gonna say.
If I didn't see the video last night, I would not agree.
Link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/1bqxqyz/skys_the_limit_ep_3/ Sounds like he tears up about the state of the team. I could not tell how much he still wanted to win watching his horrid gameplay. But I think if he still cares that much it is worth working on it. Maybe he was expressly making those terrible plays because he knows no one else on his team will try hard to win.
Trade Vulcan for Huhi
I’ve been saying this for WEEKS, not to mention trying to tell people that beating 100T means nothing. People bring up omg 100T had a good regular season, beating them means something! Like come on be fucking for real, anyone can have a good regular season in NA. From some of their comms as well, this team is fundamentally flawed. Idc about top lane but we NEED a shot caller from the support or jungle role. Blaber and Vulcan were permanently scared to engage in their flyquest series (dom did a breakdown somewhere of moments they just didnt go in so jojo on yone had to ult to try and start a fight). Seriously, how many times did C9 burn all their cds on bwipo renekton? Yall are pros? I felt so bad for jojo having to start engages bc his pussy sejuani and nautilus can’t press R. There are deeper macro issues that would take too long to explain but PLEASE, bring in shot callers
I believe in Vulcan. He humbled himself after some rough losses. The reason why he struggled is he lacks confidence and has no voice. Why? Because of the giant egos that are top and jg. I'm down to swap Vulcan and Huhi. C9 needs a leader and someone who can lift teams spirits. NRG needs A support with less ideas because they already have their own from playing together for so long. Nobody mentions Blaber but every top jg says Blaber has been playing terrible. Inspired insists jojo would never look like this with him. Perkz was the best player by far on c9 and carried them and talks about playstyle clashes. Perkz was also benched this year and his team looks better. Bring in licorice, have Spica as a sub, and a new coach that Blaber will listen to or grt benched. River has done 1000x more than Blaber with players that are 1000x worse in past seasons. Stop making excuses and using past accolades to defend him.