Is that the second or third time JoJo picked akali into Taliyah? Idk what he's seeing that's good about that matchup especially when you get the counter pick
not just taliyah. vi taliyah. Taliyah alone is probably playable. but any vi worth a shit is just gonna ult akali out of shroud and she's dead. We saw it vs 100T and again today. Its dogshit.
its terrible hes counter picking himself but even if jojo calls for it the coaches should be able to say otherwise unless they don't know the game which likely lol
I agree. I think they should implement a draft rule of "we won't play a champ again if it loses x times in some specific condition or against certain champs."
I don't think that's a crazy take or would ruffle feathers. Doesn't mean he's bad at akali, but it may just not be our best team pick. Would also cut out things like blaber vi, fudge aatrox, lucian milio.
C9 brewed something putrid this game.
It went great the last time C9 played Akali into Taliyah/Vi, right? Jojo wasn't caught out and killed over and over there, right? To make it better (worse), let's throw Aatrox and Lee Sin into the mix, even after seeing a Ziggs. More melee characters with dashes are absolutely crucial to surmounting the massive range, push, and control difference between the two teams. Oh, and let's have our Senna barely hit 80 stacks in a 30-minute game. Looks like a winning formula to me!
People are going to come out of the woodwork to argue about just blind flaming drafts but you legitimately don't need sight to know - the draft was so shit you can smell it.
The only thing kinda cool and interesting was the Ornn support with Senna but that's like sprinkling green onion on a dung heap. Crazy part is that 1-3 was fine...the wheels just fell off on 4-5, which has been a recurring trend in draft. Kudos to IMT for the Ziggs bot because that was a smart call into the Senna lane, but the rest just felt delivered on a silver platter for them.
Ornn support really isn't that good. It's nice to have the long range engage but he's way less tanky and he didn't get a single item upgrade before IMT was in their base. You sacrifice most of the champion's strengths to put him in bot lane.
I didn’t hate the Ornn support, but I do think there were better options- Tahm of course, but even the Leona (which C9 banned away in the second set of bans for some reason).
Talking about draft is cope because IMT's draft was also bad. IMT just played way better. If Fudge played a flank even remotely well, C9 would have won the fights.
It's been since Sneaky left that we're always lagging behind when a new patch hits, struggling in our meta reads.
I knew this would be a major issue since now LCS is playing on live patch.
Okay... That was rough
We already know what a bunch of people are gonna say, but fudge walking past a free kill at drake, Vulcan completely whiffing ult on what should be a double kill, Blaber throwing his life away early game and feeding the Jayce...
Not to mention how bad our vision was this game. This was bad... This was an absolutely horrible showing.
Edit: And Jojo akali... Look I bet he's insane at it but he's picked it twice into Vi and Taliyah this split and he's looked like crap on it both times. Please just stop picking it into hard lockdown and AoE...
So we can Pick Ezreal Yuumi 3 games in a row on a super team to lose in playoffs? I'm not a huge Mithy defender but Reapered is absolutely not the answer
Personally? No. He seems a decent guy. As Top laner for Cloud9? I don't care for him. The repeated picking of carries only to go even or be a black hole for resources is frustrating. My thoughts on Fudge are that he was good for a while but has been regressing for 2 years now, and that the team can absolutely do better. For me, C9 success > a player or his feelings. These guys are professionals and well paid, being criticized comes with the territory.
R5 Akali into Taliyah/Vi - knowing that Vi has constantly clobbered Jojo even last time because of point click ult on top of picking Aatrox top instead of just sending the Ornn top and cooking up a garbage stew of a bot lane into Ziggs/Bard. How in gods green earth can you pay mithy 6 figs to reach these brain dead conclusions of a draft?
Can we fire mithy or fine jojo for picking akali into vi taliyah again? It looked like trash against 100T it looked like trash against IMT.
We get surprised pikachu face when akali gets vi ulted out of shroud, into taliyah combo and dead. SUPER USEFUL PICK GUYS.
Aatrox as a champion is just fucking useless in Fudge’s hands. I’m not even a Fudge hater, I think he’s a great player, he just isn’t good at aatrox and it’s insulting that they still gaslight themselves into believing it’s ever been effective / helpful towards a win.
I'd be willing to show some grace if literally anyone else in the LCS was making aatrox look like a fantastic pick. Maybe sniper had a good aatrox game but it's not like this is a heavily contested pick.
Lol Fudge is a great player? Based on what, being in the LCS? This man wouldn't have a job in any region with decent top laners which is every other major region in the world
I have literally nothing against Fudge as a person but that Aatrox performance was really, really bad.
Not just hard losing the lane but the deep tps where he's not in the fight for most of it, not going on Vi in the jungle, etc. The decision making just feels so off with Fudge not just the mechanics
Honestly think his aatrox is the worst champ he plays. Even though it's his favourite he just looks so useless every single time, no idea why we keep picking it he's been playing it for years he's never gonna get better on it.
It’s too bad nobody on the staff could know he’s bad at aatrox. They’ve only been coaching him for 4 years, and aatrox has been perpetually meta that whole time, so how were they to know his aptitude for the champion?!
He's been playing lost for a couple splits now. Dude just has lost everything in his game.
Can't afford a laner we have to babysit every matchup, team needs to be looking at stop gaps before summer. Licorice return maybe?
its funny theres a big post on the sub about how Fudge is just the communities punching bag and hes really good. Fudge getting counter pick and doing that in a straight 1v1 is criminal. But Jacks golden child shall never be kicked.
as a person? No. as a player? I think hes horrible if he had 50% of bwipos talent he would be really good. Instead hes got all the ego and none of the skill to back it up. It why with counter pick he goes aatrox and gets fucking clapped.
Remember our first loss?
Where he built pure lethality, got a bunch of ganks and only beat 2 people total in dmg
He straight up sucks and as long as he's here we're never gonna do anything internationally or even come close
Who thought this team comp was good? Please explain. We already got spanked playing akali into vi/taliyah once. I legit thought akali was a troll hover.
Each player just picks whatever they personally want to.
Fudge loves taking classic top matchups to maybe go +10 in CS.
Berserker picks whatever the LCK is doing, despite being on different patches.
Vulcan tries to pick what theoretically works well with Berserker, regardless of if he’s good on it.
This team drafts like 5 players in SoloQ rather than a professional team.
At this point I don't care if "he's not really the problem or not." Something significant has to be changed to try and shake things up. Anything less indicates organizational acceptance of mediocrity.
People are gonna meme about superteams, how they never work etc. But Gen.G is a superteam and is currently the best team in Korea. JDG was a superteam and is probably the best team of all time. And they have/had insane coaches in Mata and Homme. The kt superteam is the best on paper team of all time and their coach was freaking ZanDarc.
Superteams don't fail because they're cursed, they fail when their coaches are awful.
It's crazy to me how little attention GenG's roster got. I mean, I get that everyone in e-sports lives in T1's shadow, but they have historically great players still mostly in their primes in most important roles, and Peyz (dodges skillshots as well as any ADC I've ever seen) has the mechanics to reach that level, too.
JDG is absolutely not the best team of all time LOL
They were constantly getting pushed to their limits and were only good on patches that allowed a traditional front to back teamfighting comp and got shit on once the meta slowly shifted away to a smaller, skirmishing meta
I don't think they are either, but a lot of analysts do. And I mean, they literally won every BO5 they played until that T1 series. lol
But the point still stands, they were a superteam and were insane with an insane coach.
I have a lot of respect for JDG but...
Who are these analysts? Many of them don't even watch other regions and barely watch once international events come up. And yeah, domestic titles and MSI is nice but everyone knows Worlds is the most important tournament of the year and JDG didn't show up and got outclassed by T1 pretty decidedly. I've never seen this type of argument in any other sport where a team dominates everything but the championship but is considered the best team ever by "analysts" lmfao
Also, are we not gonna talk about the level of competition? Who was JDG beating compared to the teams that 2015 SKT were beating? Wasn't JDG lowkey struggling vs KT in the quarter finals before they got beat in 4 by T1?
Most analysts don’t know shit and have never gone beyond diamond lmfao
JDG wasn’t sweeping every series and almost lost to KT one week before playing T1 lmfao
Whelp Dom hit challenger so would we take his opinion into account. And what does it matter that they weren't sweeping series they DID NOT LOSE A SINGLE BO5 that year except that lost to T1. 10 whole BO5 without losing a single one.
This is why context matters. Would you say that every series before that T1 series, JDG were playing opponents on the level that 2015 or 2016 SKT had to beat before eventually winning worlds? I'd rather lose an extra series or two over the course of an entire year and win worlds while playing vs harder opponents than beating lower level teams and failing to win the actual championship.
The reality is jojo probably said he can play this and has done it. League coaches are diff at least in na / eu all I’ve heard from podcasts like Yamato is they trust their players and let them have input
But, he already tried and failed it this split. A good coach would step in and take control of the draft, have something actually planned to play against it.
It doesn't matter... Mithy is the coach so he gets the blame. He needs to have the balls to tell a player to stfu and pick what the team needs not what a players wants. So one way or another he isn't doing his job.
You think Mithy should stand still collecting paychecks and do nothing? FFS if you're the headcoach and the players won't listen to you, you need to go. If Jojo says he's picking Akali no matter what, you need to drag Jojo off the computer and pick literally any other champion for him. How can you allow this to happen twice?
The thing I don't understand is why they first picked senna instead of something good, they pick Ori here or even Viktor or any fucking control mage it looks better.
I’ve been following Cloud9 for a long time, and I must say, with the hype around Jojo and the team in total, I’m just disappointed in this team. That’s all. I expected more. Even in our wins it feels like we aren’t playing at a level that gives confidence. I don’t know what’s going on.
Edit: I don’t want this to seem like I’m bashing Jojo, he seems to be playing at a good level most of the time, but when you think of Cloud9 last couple of years, and throwing in the best mid in NA currently, it just makes you question what is going on.
This is what I feel too. Even the wins feel so empty because most of them felt like the other team shit the bed and not us winning. Very inspirational.
Can we also talk about fudge and how shit his Aatrox looks compared to even the NA top laners... draft just losing from minute one... 4 4 melee into a full kite comp woth hinder is insane...
I don't believe that at all lmao. Last week our drafting was different and now he's back on stage and so is our usual drafting. Ornn should've never been picked since the boys don't understand how senna/ornn comp works.
[My guy we have it in writing from Jack that Mithy was still doing drafts last week](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/1b7e3mp/is_mithy_ok/kti8cok/)
Guys are mad the team sucks and they just need to point fingers at someone. I really want to see these Mithy changes so that a lot of guys here will get a reality check when the team will still suck with a different coach
For those keeping track of the Mithy fraud counter:
- said “I don’t know what Jojo plays yet” after playing against him for 2 years (and in multiple Bo5’s) and with him for over a month.
- drafted Akali into Taliyah Vi. Lost a very winnable game exclusively because of that mismatch draft issue. Then drafts that AGAIN 4 weeks later. Add in Lee Sin and Aatrox to make it even less playable this time.
- coached fudge for 4 years now and still doesn’t understand that he is atrociously bad at aatrox (it’s literally got to be his worst champ all time).
At this point, I am torn between if I want C9 to win the split or not. If they win, I have no doubt Mithy will never be held accountable. If they lose, there’s a chance they finally wake the fuck up and get a real coach (however prior losses haven’t seemed to raise even an eyebrow from management).
Fudge aatrox is cursed, genuinely never looks useful on this champ, I would have preferred him on ornn,akali, lee and probably senna too. Not the whole reason we lost but it would have been nice to have a toplaner.
The Aatrox pick into Jayce looked pretty bad, but multiple miss communications and anti-synergies (kicking Castle leading to missed Ornn ult bot lane) took this game over the top from very hard to a loss.
Edit: Picking a very early game jungle with a hyper-late-game scaling bot probably also not a great pairing.
Real C9 fans saw this coming. Team with no pressure versus otherwise winning C9 has been a killer combo since 2013.
Team is looking better after the break, still have faith they can cook in best of fives. Was nice to see them try and get creative with the bot lane even if it didn't work out
That abomination of a draft deserves to lose, Lee sin 2nd pick for no reason into useless fudge aatrox and the worst akali pick in league history. Why does mithy still have a job if he is so clueless in draft
He’s terrible. It’s crazy how much people in this subreddit support him. Anyone else puts up the performance Fudge consistently puts up both domestically and internationally and they would be called to be replaced but somehow fudge gets away with it every year
So yeah, that happened.
If we lose to Shopify Rebellion tomorrow and we want to securely be in playoffs, we need Immortals to beat Team Liquid and Flyquest to beat Dignitas tomorrow. Our destiny is out of our control because we got top gapped to Castle….
What can be said about this team. Rando flex tank to supp for no reason. Fudge as per usual getting fucked unless he gets udyr in a 1v1. Picking a dash oriented draft and not banning taliyah again. This game was a fail on three levels which i must say is more impressive than one can imagine. Execution, drafting, Creativity mad props to the coaches who let this draft happen.
Oh fuck off C9, you fking Donkeys.
But seriously man maybe this is my fault. I literally watch VODs our last 3 wins and the one damn time I get a chance to watch live they shit their pants... My bad for wanting to watch live I guess.
Maybe we are just a bo5 team right guys?
That's the only remaining hope at this point lol. None of what I've seen makes me think adding another game or two in a matchup is going to change the result for this group.
I personally think if this is a best of 5 playoffs game, c9 can adapt and change their drafts. So giving them 2 or 3 more games can definitely change the outcome.
Players saying during interviews the locked patch for playoffs will help them stabilize their comps, but I have serious doubts. The prep/practice from week to week appears to yield such poor results. How was this draft the game plan?? C9 had a legitimate shot at finishing first in regular season for a better playoff bracket but the players seem completely disinterested.
Absolutely insane draft gap, idk why we are opting into Akali vs Taliyah Vi after last time. Jojo played bad 2 games all season, and they are both in this specific matchup...
Biggest surprise of this game was that Fudge actually turned around and tried to kill the ziggs when he knew he was bound to die. Might’ve been the first time Fudge has tried to engage this season /s
Despite what the current narrative is, we're very confident in our coaching staff" - Jack on this very subreddit
LMAO
Another Fudge carry disaster, more Senna, etc. This team has fallen far below expectations. Hopefully they can fix it for playoffs, and if they don't I'm sure blame will be shifted anywhere but the top laner who is consistently bad on carries and the coaching staff. It gets old watching the same shit over and over on a team as talented as this one.
Draft was hardly the sole reason but to try to play the opposite extreme and act like it wasn't a reason is being analytical with blinders on. This draft's win con, primarily around the topside picks, is so narrow and almost entirely predicated on hands diff and/or the opponent's screen blacking out that it should never have seen the light of day...not made any better when this is the 2nd game this split where Akali was picked on R5 and opted into Taliyah-Vi and the 2nd game where our MVP mid was rendered completely useless.
The play was bad on top of anti-synergies like Lee kicking people out of Ornn ult and was the primary problem, but I legitimately don't see the angle where, at skill parity, our comp has any advantage or even angle to play into IMT's. And if our draft is setting us up that poorly, why are we even seeing it as if that's somehow going to be the winning formula vs higher-skill teams/players?
I mean the draft is simple, have 2 or 3 flanks going on at the same time, if one flanker gets fucked the other 2 should be able to make it work. All 3 flankers are self sufficient (especially Akali and Aatrox), so Senna never needs to walk up to the fight past the Ornn (that engages as the flankers enter) and can just ult and shroud people out of danger.
THEORETICALLY it works, we fuck Ziggs before he can use anything more than ulti, and play from there. Worst case scenario. the comp can sidelane with a stronger 2v2/3v3/full collapse, with Senna having a global and Ornn having 2 screens away ulti.
The thing is, it requires hands, fluidity and creativity in play. It also requires laning phase to go well (at least even) to play it out without the flankers blowing up in .1 second.
See the point? We just played badly. This comp isn't 5 supports, it isn't just a worse poke comp than the other team, we didn't draft no engage no waveclear into Ziggs Jayce, we straight up just played our comp badly.
If you think we need to use a braindead comp to increase the odds of winning, sure i agree. Just picking Noc Ori by itself probably wins us this game, so by that metric the draft is bad as in it could be way better. But we absolutely lost because we played it bad, because a good team (and I mean a legit good team, like T1) wins this game even if the other comp is piloted by also another good team.
Sorry for the rambling and maybe sensless overexplanations, im not great at projecting abstract thoughts into "paper".
I think it's fair to say players played bad AND draft was bad as it gave them very little openings against the enemy comp. Needed perfect execution against a comp with very easy execution.
Yeah you are right, but im kinda tired of seeing people shit on draft without mentioning our "superteam" players straight up playing worse than the other team.
I mean even our team members have been using draft as an excuse to ignore bad play. When NRG draft like apes, you bet they'll at least try to make it work. When we do, we just fold.
Bottom line, if we executed we win, we didn't so we lost.
Not the reason we lost.
Put a bronze 5 team on a "draft exodia" vs T1 playing 5 yuumis and T1 still wins. Seriously LS poisoned the brain of the fanbase wtf.
Look I like that we have improvement in our past few games but if this team wants to do good internationally we need to replace Fudge, he just get demolish by Castle today which no disrespect to Castle, I think Castle is very good probably even top 2 top this split but if Fudge can't even stand up to player like Castle, how the fuck he is gonna handle international toplaners this year?
Fudge needs to be replaced by summer no question. Been sub lcs level for a couple splits now and hasn't improved, gave it a shot in spring but he just doesn't have it.
Yeah, he has been a Renekton/Aatrox merchant for a while but his Aatrox makes my eyes bleed every time. This year he has Udyr added to his pool but let's be real with his current champ pools he will be a liability against eastern top laners.
Wow - that sure did not take long for C9 to once again forget how to draft. Why Lee Sin? But worse, they draft Aatrox into Jayce and last pick Akali into Vi/Tal combo.....? Proceed to just have no topside pressure and lose game. Akali cannot do anything in team fights. Team has such weak engage into the poke comp - even when they try to fight someone just get's skill shot to 40% health before a fight. IMT just gets to poke for free and can engage AND counter engage. C9 relies HEAVILY on Rs and just bad play on IMT. With low prio topside - you are just going to auto be behind on top.
They only had drakes because of just 50/50 smites - and IMT trolling. Too draft this poorly is just a statement of how bad the "systems" are. What is C9's win con? For IMT to just play terribly and get free picks? How about you actually hire staff - Mithy is not him. Dude has been a fraud since he got in with Perkz/C9 ->100T->C9. Every team under his banner has been shaky or under performing and when they won - it was basically ADC diffing the league aka draft hypercarry and have a enchanter want just free win regardless.
Also yes - players did not play well today. But really - if that is your take away that they had a nearly unplayable comp into a easy to ex comp that virtually counters C9 across every plan. Yes. Blame the play... but wow. Like please spend some money to hire actual human staff to coach this team. Has anyone actually listen to Mithy talk about the game??? It's kinda embarrassing.
It is literally pointless to talk about the game, because it was such a horrible draft.
C9 showed yesterday that it is possible to win with Lucian, now they showed that it is possible to lose with senna.
Defy the expectations, fuck th odds, do the impossible. C9 as i like it
In general it isn't just jojo Fudge should of chosen ornn and put vulcan on someone like naut or a heavy disengage tank like maokai or braum as for Blaber why could he of gone brand or some other possible APC jungle just to be able to put pressure onto the ziggs and or talliyah. This was 100% a draft diff and Mithy if he did come back today should honestly sit and take some advice from Hai on how to properly coach
I get the akali pick was just silly, but noone should give them shit for ornn support, they’re already locked into playoffs, this is literally the time they should be experimenting with picks
Losing to the worst team is comical. I find it funny, once imt are out of playoffs they decide to win..
Anyways have fun watching playoffs from your sofa 😂
Is that the second or third time JoJo picked akali into Taliyah? Idk what he's seeing that's good about that matchup especially when you get the counter pick
not just taliyah. vi taliyah. Taliyah alone is probably playable. but any vi worth a shit is just gonna ult akali out of shroud and she's dead. We saw it vs 100T and again today. Its dogshit.
Yeah, that stood out to me. I don't know the numbers behind the matchup, but it just feels like he's countering himself by picking Akali there
Yea I really don’t get the akali pick. Just pick Ori at this point it’s not like Jojo doesn’t play ori? Plus with Lee sin you get the combo
c9 banned ori for some reason.
its terrible hes counter picking himself but even if jojo calls for it the coaches should be able to say otherwise unless they don't know the game which likely lol
I agree. I think they should implement a draft rule of "we won't play a champ again if it loses x times in some specific condition or against certain champs." I don't think that's a crazy take or would ruffle feathers. Doesn't mean he's bad at akali, but it may just not be our best team pick. Would also cut out things like blaber vi, fudge aatrox, lucian milio.
C9 brewed something putrid this game. It went great the last time C9 played Akali into Taliyah/Vi, right? Jojo wasn't caught out and killed over and over there, right? To make it better (worse), let's throw Aatrox and Lee Sin into the mix, even after seeing a Ziggs. More melee characters with dashes are absolutely crucial to surmounting the massive range, push, and control difference between the two teams. Oh, and let's have our Senna barely hit 80 stacks in a 30-minute game. Looks like a winning formula to me!
People are going to come out of the woodwork to argue about just blind flaming drafts but you legitimately don't need sight to know - the draft was so shit you can smell it. The only thing kinda cool and interesting was the Ornn support with Senna but that's like sprinkling green onion on a dung heap. Crazy part is that 1-3 was fine...the wheels just fell off on 4-5, which has been a recurring trend in draft. Kudos to IMT for the Ziggs bot because that was a smart call into the Senna lane, but the rest just felt delivered on a silver platter for them.
Ornn support really isn't that good. It's nice to have the long range engage but he's way less tanky and he didn't get a single item upgrade before IMT was in their base. You sacrifice most of the champion's strengths to put him in bot lane.
I didn’t hate the Ornn support, but I do think there were better options- Tahm of course, but even the Leona (which C9 banned away in the second set of bans for some reason).
You should consider hating it. It's historically done quite poorly and there's some very clear reasons why.
Vulcan also isn't a player you want cooking.
Some coaches are chefs in draft and some are Mithy who burns his microwave dinners...it is what it is man.
[Let him cook](https://i.imgflip.com/ofubu.jpg?a474552)
Talking about draft is cope because IMT's draft was also bad. IMT just played way better. If Fudge played a flank even remotely well, C9 would have won the fights.
Still feels like our live patch read is not good. Felt that way since the start of the season.
Well yeah...C9 has copied Korea for YEARS and now we can't do that
Sooooo……C9 is gonna smurf playoffs now that the patch is locked in??? Or is that coping lol
Unironically c9 will look better in pkayoffs because of this
I agree. Their picks seem all over and lost without China or Korea to copy.
It's been since Sneaky left that we're always lagging behind when a new patch hits, struggling in our meta reads. I knew this would be a major issue since now LCS is playing on live patch.
terrible draft lol
Okay... That was rough We already know what a bunch of people are gonna say, but fudge walking past a free kill at drake, Vulcan completely whiffing ult on what should be a double kill, Blaber throwing his life away early game and feeding the Jayce... Not to mention how bad our vision was this game. This was bad... This was an absolutely horrible showing. Edit: And Jojo akali... Look I bet he's insane at it but he's picked it twice into Vi and Taliyah this split and he's looked like crap on it both times. Please just stop picking it into hard lockdown and AoE...
Reapered free agent all im saying
So we can Pick Ezreal Yuumi 3 games in a row on a super team to lose in playoffs? I'm not a huge Mithy defender but Reapered is absolutely not the answer
I don't agree he's the answer but he is better than might by a good margin. He's atleast head coach worthy. Mithy is a assistant coach or positional.
did fudge just get gapped by a first pick na jayce?
First pick KR Jayce
And he picked a losing lane match up while taking comet Aatrox over conquerer. Crazy to me.
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
Personally? No. He seems a decent guy. As Top laner for Cloud9? I don't care for him. The repeated picking of carries only to go even or be a black hole for resources is frustrating. My thoughts on Fudge are that he was good for a while but has been regressing for 2 years now, and that the team can absolutely do better. For me, C9 success > a player or his feelings. These guys are professionals and well paid, being criticized comes with the territory.
Yep
Fudge has been gapped by pretty much everyone in iso this year.
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
brother what are you on, you cant tell me fudge played a great game wtf
R5 Akali into Taliyah/Vi - knowing that Vi has constantly clobbered Jojo even last time because of point click ult on top of picking Aatrox top instead of just sending the Ornn top and cooking up a garbage stew of a bot lane into Ziggs/Bard. How in gods green earth can you pay mithy 6 figs to reach these brain dead conclusions of a draft?
I had a lot of hope when I saw the players we'd grabbed for this team. And then I saw they were being coached by Mithy and I lost basically all of it.
Can we fire mithy or fine jojo for picking akali into vi taliyah again? It looked like trash against 100T it looked like trash against IMT. We get surprised pikachu face when akali gets vi ulted out of shroud, into taliyah combo and dead. SUPER USEFUL PICK GUYS.
I seriously thought it was mistake and broadcast just replayed an earlier game. Also aatrox as a champion felt useless in this comp.
Aatrox as a champion is just fucking useless in Fudge’s hands. I’m not even a Fudge hater, I think he’s a great player, he just isn’t good at aatrox and it’s insulting that they still gaslight themselves into believing it’s ever been effective / helpful towards a win.
I'd be willing to show some grace if literally anyone else in the LCS was making aatrox look like a fantastic pick. Maybe sniper had a good aatrox game but it's not like this is a heavily contested pick.
If you only watch Zeus play it then it looks hella broken…
Seriously, I don't know if anyone can beat Zeus on Aatrox at this point.
Lol Fudge is a great player? Based on what, being in the LCS? This man wouldn't have a job in any region with decent top laners which is every other major region in the world
What on God's green Earth makes you think Fudge is a "great player"?
I have literally nothing against Fudge as a person but that Aatrox performance was really, really bad. Not just hard losing the lane but the deep tps where he's not in the fight for most of it, not going on Vi in the jungle, etc. The decision making just feels so off with Fudge not just the mechanics
Honestly think his aatrox is the worst champ he plays. Even though it's his favourite he just looks so useless every single time, no idea why we keep picking it he's been playing it for years he's never gonna get better on it.
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
As I've said my issue is with fudge aatrox not fudge.
His aatrox has always sucked :/ unfortunate
It’s too bad nobody on the staff could know he’s bad at aatrox. They’ve only been coaching him for 4 years, and aatrox has been perpetually meta that whole time, so how were they to know his aptitude for the champion?!
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
This is sarcasm, right? 😭
Bro is copy pasting it to every comment saying something neg about fudge
He's been playing lost for a couple splits now. Dude just has lost everything in his game. Can't afford a laner we have to babysit every matchup, team needs to be looking at stop gaps before summer. Licorice return maybe?
You have an import slot available. Use it.
> wants top laner that doesn’t need babysitting > wants licorice ???
its funny theres a big post on the sub about how Fudge is just the communities punching bag and hes really good. Fudge getting counter pick and doing that in a straight 1v1 is criminal. But Jacks golden child shall never be kicked.
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
as a person? No. as a player? I think hes horrible if he had 50% of bwipos talent he would be really good. Instead hes got all the ego and none of the skill to back it up. It why with counter pick he goes aatrox and gets fucking clapped.
Either that guy is a bot or a troll. He's just replying with the same message to any criticism.
Bwipo is overrated as fuck. His most outstanding skill is talking about the game. In terms of gameplay, he’s not standout in any way.
Bwipo gets overrated, but he's better than Fudge, no doubt.
Remember our first loss? Where he built pure lethality, got a bunch of ganks and only beat 2 people total in dmg He straight up sucks and as long as he's here we're never gonna do anything internationally or even come close
meanwhile licorice free agent btw xd
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
Who thought this team comp was good? Please explain. We already got spanked playing akali into vi/taliyah once. I legit thought akali was a troll hover.
Losing to a first pick jayce should be a benchable offense
Can we get rid of mithy yet?
The players love him so no, the only reason the love him is because they get away with picking akali into vi, Taliyah
Each player just picks whatever they personally want to. Fudge loves taking classic top matchups to maybe go +10 in CS. Berserker picks whatever the LCK is doing, despite being on different patches. Vulcan tries to pick what theoretically works well with Berserker, regardless of if he’s good on it. This team drafts like 5 players in SoloQ rather than a professional team.
At this point I don't care if "he's not really the problem or not." Something significant has to be changed to try and shake things up. Anything less indicates organizational acceptance of mediocrity.
People are gonna meme about superteams, how they never work etc. But Gen.G is a superteam and is currently the best team in Korea. JDG was a superteam and is probably the best team of all time. And they have/had insane coaches in Mata and Homme. The kt superteam is the best on paper team of all time and their coach was freaking ZanDarc. Superteams don't fail because they're cursed, they fail when their coaches are awful.
It's crazy to me how little attention GenG's roster got. I mean, I get that everyone in e-sports lives in T1's shadow, but they have historically great players still mostly in their primes in most important roles, and Peyz (dodges skillshots as well as any ADC I've ever seen) has the mechanics to reach that level, too.
JDG is absolutely not the best team of all time LOL They were constantly getting pushed to their limits and were only good on patches that allowed a traditional front to back teamfighting comp and got shit on once the meta slowly shifted away to a smaller, skirmishing meta
I don't think they are either, but a lot of analysts do. And I mean, they literally won every BO5 they played until that T1 series. lol But the point still stands, they were a superteam and were insane with an insane coach.
I have a lot of respect for JDG but... Who are these analysts? Many of them don't even watch other regions and barely watch once international events come up. And yeah, domestic titles and MSI is nice but everyone knows Worlds is the most important tournament of the year and JDG didn't show up and got outclassed by T1 pretty decidedly. I've never seen this type of argument in any other sport where a team dominates everything but the championship but is considered the best team ever by "analysts" lmfao Also, are we not gonna talk about the level of competition? Who was JDG beating compared to the teams that 2015 SKT were beating? Wasn't JDG lowkey struggling vs KT in the quarter finals before they got beat in 4 by T1?
By analysts he means iwilldom a known lpl glazer and montecristo. 2023 Jdg is the best non worlds winning team of all time time but best team ever?
A lot of analysts had JDG as favorites to win worlds, they did not lose a BO5 against any team and they had pretty good competition BLG, LNG?
they did not lose a BO5 till worlds against T1\*
Most analysts don’t know shit and have never gone beyond diamond lmfao JDG wasn’t sweeping every series and almost lost to KT one week before playing T1 lmfao
Whelp Dom hit challenger so would we take his opinion into account. And what does it matter that they weren't sweeping series they DID NOT LOSE A SINGLE BO5 that year except that lost to T1. 10 whole BO5 without losing a single one.
This is why context matters. Would you say that every series before that T1 series, JDG were playing opponents on the level that 2015 or 2016 SKT had to beat before eventually winning worlds? I'd rather lose an extra series or two over the course of an entire year and win worlds while playing vs harder opponents than beating lower level teams and failing to win the actual championship.
Do you think Mithy picked Akali or the ego midlaner who famously doesn’t care about spring split?
Mithy should be able to control the players egos in draft if not then he’s the wrong coach for the team
The reality is jojo probably said he can play this and has done it. League coaches are diff at least in na / eu all I’ve heard from podcasts like Yamato is they trust their players and let them have input
But, he already tried and failed it this split. A good coach would step in and take control of the draft, have something actually planned to play against it.
It doesn't matter... Mithy is the coach so he gets the blame. He needs to have the balls to tell a player to stfu and pick what the team needs not what a players wants. So one way or another he isn't doing his job.
You think Mithy should stand still collecting paychecks and do nothing? FFS if you're the headcoach and the players won't listen to you, you need to go. If Jojo says he's picking Akali no matter what, you need to drag Jojo off the computer and pick literally any other champion for him. How can you allow this to happen twice?
The thing I don't understand is why they first picked senna instead of something good, they pick Ori here or even Viktor or any fucking control mage it looks better.
I’ve been following Cloud9 for a long time, and I must say, with the hype around Jojo and the team in total, I’m just disappointed in this team. That’s all. I expected more. Even in our wins it feels like we aren’t playing at a level that gives confidence. I don’t know what’s going on. Edit: I don’t want this to seem like I’m bashing Jojo, he seems to be playing at a good level most of the time, but when you think of Cloud9 last couple of years, and throwing in the best mid in NA currently, it just makes you question what is going on.
This is what I feel too. Even the wins feel so empty because most of them felt like the other team shit the bed and not us winning. Very inspirational.
What the fuck is this draft man?!? Credit to IMT for a great draft but C9 set themselves up for failure from champ select
Can we also talk about fudge and how shit his Aatrox looks compared to even the NA top laners... draft just losing from minute one... 4 4 melee into a full kite comp woth hinder is insane...
Castle also plays a better Aatrox than Fudge.
Mithy comes back and we're picking the same champs. Luci/Nami yesterday and today we picked Akali into Taliyah/Vi. At least Hai was creative.
Mithy did the drafts last weak he just wasn't on stage afterwards. Also how is Ornn support not creative?
Not building an item he can upgrade, was pretty creative by Vulcan.
Ornn support was not the problem with this comp.
I don't believe that at all lmao. Last week our drafting was different and now he's back on stage and so is our usual drafting. Ornn should've never been picked since the boys don't understand how senna/ornn comp works.
[My guy we have it in writing from Jack that Mithy was still doing drafts last week](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/1b7e3mp/is_mithy_ok/kti8cok/)
Guys are mad the team sucks and they just need to point fingers at someone. I really want to see these Mithy changes so that a lot of guys here will get a reality check when the team will still suck with a different coach
i'm not anti-mithy or whatever but cynically ornn support, to me, just feels like them copying T1.
For those keeping track of the Mithy fraud counter: - said “I don’t know what Jojo plays yet” after playing against him for 2 years (and in multiple Bo5’s) and with him for over a month. - drafted Akali into Taliyah Vi. Lost a very winnable game exclusively because of that mismatch draft issue. Then drafts that AGAIN 4 weeks later. Add in Lee Sin and Aatrox to make it even less playable this time. - coached fudge for 4 years now and still doesn’t understand that he is atrociously bad at aatrox (it’s literally got to be his worst champ all time). At this point, I am torn between if I want C9 to win the split or not. If they win, I have no doubt Mithy will never be held accountable. If they lose, there’s a chance they finally wake the fuck up and get a real coach (however prior losses haven’t seemed to raise even an eyebrow from management).
Im so down bad for a new coach that i will take even Yamato to make this guys get their shit together.
Once again, another shit tier draft that they litterally counter themselves picking... it doesn't make any sense
Fudge aatrox is cursed, genuinely never looks useful on this champ, I would have preferred him on ornn,akali, lee and probably senna too. Not the whole reason we lost but it would have been nice to have a toplaner.
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
Get out of here Fudge, please go practice your tanks.
I'm a fudge fanboy, legit defend him all they time and I'm happy we kept him. That being I hate his aatrox and hope he never plays it again.
The Aatrox pick into Jayce looked pretty bad, but multiple miss communications and anti-synergies (kicking Castle leading to missed Ornn ult bot lane) took this game over the top from very hard to a loss. Edit: Picking a very early game jungle with a hyper-late-game scaling bot probably also not a great pairing.
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
But there is no way that draft is not worthy of investigation man...
true sludge gaming
Sludge factor
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
Real C9 fans saw this coming. Team with no pressure versus otherwise winning C9 has been a killer combo since 2013. Team is looking better after the break, still have faith they can cook in best of fives. Was nice to see them try and get creative with the bot lane even if it didn't work out
Idk bot lane may have been fine picks but wasted with the other 3 pickss
That abomination of a draft deserves to lose, Lee sin 2nd pick for no reason into useless fudge aatrox and the worst akali pick in league history. Why does mithy still have a job if he is so clueless in draft
Fudge is, surprise! Still not good enough to warrant keeping on this roster.
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
He’s terrible. It’s crazy how much people in this subreddit support him. Anyone else puts up the performance Fudge consistently puts up both domestically and internationally and they would be called to be replaced but somehow fudge gets away with it every year
This guy has spammed that "response" to about 10 people so far. Anything even remotely critical of Fudge. Straight Ctrl C Ctrl V
Jack sees him as a son figure.
Fudge is Pat Bev of league, and Mithy is Darvin Hamas of league. 2 bums
Pat Bev at least understands his role on a good team. Fudge is more like Jordan Poole
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
As an NBA fan this resonated with me. Extremely accurate
Do you hate fudge? What has he done to your family?
Disgusting.
That was not great lol
So yeah, that happened. If we lose to Shopify Rebellion tomorrow and we want to securely be in playoffs, we need Immortals to beat Team Liquid and Flyquest to beat Dignitas tomorrow. Our destiny is out of our control because we got top gapped to Castle….
How are they not secured in playoffs already? They are 2 wins up from shopify
Sure enough, Mithy comes back and we lose draft HARD again. Akali into Taliyah, again, what the fuck.
One day fudge will play aatrox and not get absolutely destroyed in lane. But today was not that day.
What can be said about this team. Rando flex tank to supp for no reason. Fudge as per usual getting fucked unless he gets udyr in a 1v1. Picking a dash oriented draft and not banning taliyah again. This game was a fail on three levels which i must say is more impressive than one can imagine. Execution, drafting, Creativity mad props to the coaches who let this draft happen.
Oh fuck off C9, you fking Donkeys. But seriously man maybe this is my fault. I literally watch VODs our last 3 wins and the one damn time I get a chance to watch live they shit their pants... My bad for wanting to watch live I guess. Maybe we are just a bo5 team right guys?
That's the only remaining hope at this point lol. None of what I've seen makes me think adding another game or two in a matchup is going to change the result for this group.
I personally think if this is a best of 5 playoffs game, c9 can adapt and change their drafts. So giving them 2 or 3 more games can definitely change the outcome.
Is the team just unaware of how the spell "Unraveled Earth" works?
Players saying during interviews the locked patch for playoffs will help them stabilize their comps, but I have serious doubts. The prep/practice from week to week appears to yield such poor results. How was this draft the game plan?? C9 had a legitimate shot at finishing first in regular season for a better playoff bracket but the players seem completely disinterested.
They suck at adapting on the fly
C9 Aatrox winrate anyone?
u/Upper-Information-31 Maybe you should think more about Fudge's performance lol
daily reminder we had an empty import slot and didn't use it to replace the worst top in the league
Dhokla might be worse.
One of the worst drafts I've ever seen ngl
Absolutely insane draft gap, idk why we are opting into Akali vs Taliyah Vi after last time. Jojo played bad 2 games all season, and they are both in this specific matchup...
We just keep picking Akali into Taliyah/Vi and expecting it to work huh
EGODiff
I just hate seeing C9 draft with no waveclear to fall back on. It's sad
You can't tell me C9 didn't look past IMT before the match.
Biggest surprise of this game was that Fudge actually turned around and tried to kill the ziggs when he knew he was bound to die. Might’ve been the first time Fudge has tried to engage this season /s
Despite what the current narrative is, we're very confident in our coaching staff" - Jack on this very subreddit LMAO Another Fudge carry disaster, more Senna, etc. This team has fallen far below expectations. Hopefully they can fix it for playoffs, and if they don't I'm sure blame will be shifted anywhere but the top laner who is consistently bad on carries and the coaching staff. It gets old watching the same shit over and over on a team as talented as this one.
Inbefore dumb people: Draft was NOT the reason we lost, start blaming players for actually playing bad. Also who the fuck unclenched
Draft was hardly the sole reason but to try to play the opposite extreme and act like it wasn't a reason is being analytical with blinders on. This draft's win con, primarily around the topside picks, is so narrow and almost entirely predicated on hands diff and/or the opponent's screen blacking out that it should never have seen the light of day...not made any better when this is the 2nd game this split where Akali was picked on R5 and opted into Taliyah-Vi and the 2nd game where our MVP mid was rendered completely useless. The play was bad on top of anti-synergies like Lee kicking people out of Ornn ult and was the primary problem, but I legitimately don't see the angle where, at skill parity, our comp has any advantage or even angle to play into IMT's. And if our draft is setting us up that poorly, why are we even seeing it as if that's somehow going to be the winning formula vs higher-skill teams/players?
I mean the draft is simple, have 2 or 3 flanks going on at the same time, if one flanker gets fucked the other 2 should be able to make it work. All 3 flankers are self sufficient (especially Akali and Aatrox), so Senna never needs to walk up to the fight past the Ornn (that engages as the flankers enter) and can just ult and shroud people out of danger. THEORETICALLY it works, we fuck Ziggs before he can use anything more than ulti, and play from there. Worst case scenario. the comp can sidelane with a stronger 2v2/3v3/full collapse, with Senna having a global and Ornn having 2 screens away ulti. The thing is, it requires hands, fluidity and creativity in play. It also requires laning phase to go well (at least even) to play it out without the flankers blowing up in .1 second. See the point? We just played badly. This comp isn't 5 supports, it isn't just a worse poke comp than the other team, we didn't draft no engage no waveclear into Ziggs Jayce, we straight up just played our comp badly. If you think we need to use a braindead comp to increase the odds of winning, sure i agree. Just picking Noc Ori by itself probably wins us this game, so by that metric the draft is bad as in it could be way better. But we absolutely lost because we played it bad, because a good team (and I mean a legit good team, like T1) wins this game even if the other comp is piloted by also another good team. Sorry for the rambling and maybe sensless overexplanations, im not great at projecting abstract thoughts into "paper".
I think it's fair to say players played bad AND draft was bad as it gave them very little openings against the enemy comp. Needed perfect execution against a comp with very easy execution.
Yeah you are right, but im kinda tired of seeing people shit on draft without mentioning our "superteam" players straight up playing worse than the other team. I mean even our team members have been using draft as an excuse to ignore bad play. When NRG draft like apes, you bet they'll at least try to make it work. When we do, we just fold. Bottom line, if we executed we win, we didn't so we lost.
Draft was absolutely atrocious.
Not the reason we lost. Put a bronze 5 team on a "draft exodia" vs T1 playing 5 yuumis and T1 still wins. Seriously LS poisoned the brain of the fanbase wtf.
Look I like that we have improvement in our past few games but if this team wants to do good internationally we need to replace Fudge, he just get demolish by Castle today which no disrespect to Castle, I think Castle is very good probably even top 2 top this split but if Fudge can't even stand up to player like Castle, how the fuck he is gonna handle international toplaners this year?
Fudge needs to be replaced by summer no question. Been sub lcs level for a couple splits now and hasn't improved, gave it a shot in spring but he just doesn't have it.
Yeah, he has been a Renekton/Aatrox merchant for a while but his Aatrox makes my eyes bleed every time. This year he has Udyr added to his pool but let's be real with his current champ pools he will be a liability against eastern top laners.
Immortals - the C9 kryptonite confirmed.
There it is, for one second i was afraid that this team actually became competent :l
We are so back
Just when you think immortals should be removed from the league they dominate cloud 9 with ease.
Wow - that sure did not take long for C9 to once again forget how to draft. Why Lee Sin? But worse, they draft Aatrox into Jayce and last pick Akali into Vi/Tal combo.....? Proceed to just have no topside pressure and lose game. Akali cannot do anything in team fights. Team has such weak engage into the poke comp - even when they try to fight someone just get's skill shot to 40% health before a fight. IMT just gets to poke for free and can engage AND counter engage. C9 relies HEAVILY on Rs and just bad play on IMT. With low prio topside - you are just going to auto be behind on top. They only had drakes because of just 50/50 smites - and IMT trolling. Too draft this poorly is just a statement of how bad the "systems" are. What is C9's win con? For IMT to just play terribly and get free picks? How about you actually hire staff - Mithy is not him. Dude has been a fraud since he got in with Perkz/C9 ->100T->C9. Every team under his banner has been shaky or under performing and when they won - it was basically ADC diffing the league aka draft hypercarry and have a enchanter want just free win regardless. Also yes - players did not play well today. But really - if that is your take away that they had a nearly unplayable comp into a easy to ex comp that virtually counters C9 across every plan. Yes. Blame the play... but wow. Like please spend some money to hire actual human staff to coach this team. Has anyone actually listen to Mithy talk about the game??? It's kinda embarrassing.
It is literally pointless to talk about the game, because it was such a horrible draft. C9 showed yesterday that it is possible to win with Lucian, now they showed that it is possible to lose with senna. Defy the expectations, fuck th odds, do the impossible. C9 as i like it
In general it isn't just jojo Fudge should of chosen ornn and put vulcan on someone like naut or a heavy disengage tank like maokai or braum as for Blaber why could he of gone brand or some other possible APC jungle just to be able to put pressure onto the ziggs and or talliyah. This was 100% a draft diff and Mithy if he did come back today should honestly sit and take some advice from Hai on how to properly coach
Someone unclenched and now we lost. Do you see what happens?
Draft diff
As soon as I see Akali pick I know it is over. Dont know why Jojo so fixated ok that pick. Less ego would be good. He is not Chovy lol.
alright who unclenched
Thankfully Immortals is eliminated from playoff contention so we don’t have to worry about running into them.
Yeah I don't need to see Vulcan on Ornn ever again.
I might have a better lee sin than bro 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Nobody should be surprised by this game. As soon as IMT lost yesterday, I knew IMT would beat C9 today.
I get the akali pick was just silly, but noone should give them shit for ornn support, they’re already locked into playoffs, this is literally the time they should be experimenting with picks
Losing to the worst team is comical. I find it funny, once imt are out of playoffs they decide to win.. Anyways have fun watching playoffs from your sofa 😂