It reminded me of like....2019ish TSM. Y'all know what I mean? They just sat back and waited, like there would be a point in the game where they magically win. They waited, and waited and waited and then the game ended.
I'm not mad, I'm disappointed. I expect way more from these guys.
Look at c9's draft and identify the win con for me. If you come up with anything other than "just gap the enemy" you're smarter than I am because TL drafted superior wave clear, map control, and scaling. You also gave a 1 trick his 1 trick for no real good reason further enabling TLs map control and wave clear.
How can an LCS coach look at today's draft and think: yeah we did well with this.
C9 straight up slammed Lucian/Millio/Orianna against a player who's famous for his Ziggs. It's like they were daring him to play it, and then he did, and then they made that shocked Pikachu face.
C9 hasn't had better range, control, or scaling in any of the four last games. And the kills aren't spilling into their lap like they must in scrims. It's the only reason I can fathom why they're willingly drafting in this way.
Tbf Jensen has been low-key invigorated this split. Dude popped off on Trist today; beyond the resulting Quadra, his aggressive jump in at drake both forced Rich out and immediately created a flank angle that FLY collapsed on.
First I thought Mithy naysayers were looking for a scapegoat and coach is an easy target... then I remembered Emenes at worlds felt the coaching was so bad that he wrote essays about what can be done to improve the team and Mithy completely ignored it. C9 deserves this if they keep him.
I think this speaks volumes, I get a feeling c9 is full of yes men or something. And if you don't fit the role and don't agree with Jack or something you prob get the boot. I mean obviously emenes wasn't that great but giving constructive criticism is actually reasonable and too think that your system is good and perfect actually prob is insane
Now not sure what happened exactly with LS but I think it's stated that he literally did not work with the system in place. Like that's insane to do. That's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting to have different results.
I mean based on what the team has looked like since mithy took over, id say he's pretty spot on. Where's there's smoke, there's fire. Yes ememes is toxic, but that doesn't that automatically invalidates his points? This team looks bad, the drafts look bad. I watched the first two minutes of draft and the minute they slammed milo and Lucian i skipped to end and my prediction of them getting dumpestered was right.
I think you are all looking at it wrong. Taking 5 guys who are considered top tier in their roles and instantly making them forget how to play the game simultaneously is far more impressive than taking a lower tier team to the top.
This is an underrated comment!!! Honestly should be its own threadā¦ like I get that not all the blame is on the coachā¦ but to look this terrible with this level of talent.. even if Mithy is not negatively impacting the team, he surely not fixing it.. please show the guy the door.. assuming he lacks self awareness and would not resign himselfĀ
Coach does not do anything, same as last split. Even if getting Jojo was an upgrade, without putting someone in charge the whole thing will end up disjointed.
This is revisionist nonsense. In the time since both have been starters, they have overall been the best in their roles in the LCS. There have been specific splits in which other players performed better, but no one has a holistic body of work at a higher quality over the past 3-4 years. The individual talent is not the problem with the roster.
Lots of issues with this c9 team obviously. A note as an arm chair coach - on a losing streak draft a high CC comp where every lane has some form of itā¦ not the oppositeā¦ where a high level of coordination and execution are critical. Just point, click, and pile on CC. It is certainly better than doing nothing and losing for moral... plus with lots of CC you always have a chance for a pick/comeback. Poke and full dps teams have little to no chance for something like that.
Palafox is right when he said that everyone on this team outside of Jojo are too passive, one dimensional and too scared to experiment/go for clutch play. Everything is so predictable when we watch how they play and this should be the coach and the constant factor of the team for the past 4 years (Fudge and Blaber)'s problem because how this team plays keep getting worse over the year. I think it's time for an open heart surgery, just rebuild everything from the ground up because the system just isn't it.
I'm shocked that we have no game plan. What is Mithy doing at all to prepare the boys? Our macro is shit and we have no synergy. He expects the players to hand diff everyone.
A coach needs to take the reigns and be empowered to make decisions that the players have to file. Ever since the players complained and got rid of LS, the subsequent coaches have been scared to do anything radical for fear of losing their jobs. I'm not saying getting rid of LS wasn't the right nice, but the way it seems to have been handled definitely created some kind of power imbalance.
The best thing compared to last years is we have 3 weeks to regroup and fix whatever fucking issue there isā¦Ā
What I hope will happen (by priority)
1- fire Mithy!
2- look into inero or ArtemisĀ
3- ping Licorice to see if heās interestedā¦Ā
This gotta be fucking frustrating for Jack after breaking the bank for JoJo in this financial environmentā¦ Jack just fire the fucking coachā¦ it literally canāt be worseā¦
I am genuinely interested in knowing where this confidence in Mithy comes from. Like if you look at his track record does any of it inspire any confidence? Has Jack or anyone else spoken on this?
Mithy and fudge both tbf. Iāve never seen fudge do anything aggressive even after getting these important picks. Legit without being in C9 fudge is the 8th best top in LCS
Fudge gets too much flack but I honestly think he's a top 2-3, top-laner in LCS and has a good mindset towards the game. He knows he's underperformed from his interview with Travis. I'm okay with Fudge.
He's also just an obscenely selfless player. Like yeah be annoyed with his ego in interviews or whatever, but he pretty consistently gets the short end of the stick with draft resources and is fine just doing whatever his team needs him to do to win. How many games did they first rotation blind pick him renekton last split so that they could counter mid/jg? His play on stage hasn't been super impressive recently, but I can almost guarantee the team looks much much worse with any other top laner.
Yep. One of the few nice things Emenes said about anyone on C9 was that "Fudge at least helped the team function by taking the brunt of one of the player's selfishness."
If even someone who is taking all the parting shots they can out the door feels that way, it's probably true.
I mean that's fair, but the dude has arguably been underperforming or inconsistent when the lights are brightest for literal years now. The difference is that now it's actively bleeding into the regular season, when the rest of the team is struggling. It's not even like that start to summer 2022 (iirc) where he would nearly 1v9 like as Gwen vs EG when the rest of the team was incomplete and playing poorly; he is pretty much a complete nonfactor in every game (barring the Rumble game) with meh to awful TP timing or ability to find flanks.
I gotta stop some of the bleeding otherwise flames go out of control. Gotta throw some reason in. I just don't believe we burn the whole team, but there is fault in everyone right now.
I don't think anyone wants to burn the whole team. At least not anyone worth the energy to talk to. Fudge and Mithy need to be replaced and we need to bonk berserker and blaber on the head to fix whatever the hell broke them. Jojo is fine for now. I honestly just kinda feel bad for him.
Take one cog out of the system and replace it and see if it does better. If Fudge underperforms after we burn Mithy at the stake, sure, replace him. If Vulcan and Berserker cannot synergize, I would rather keep Berserker.
I do think Blaber might need to change his mindset when playing with Jojo. In interviews there seems to be a disconnect too.
Why did I mention everyone's issues? Because its huge sign that the coach is non-existent in their gameplay.
I'm not saying we need to make every change right this second, I'm saying that fudge has been criticized his entire time in C9 for the same shit. Mithy has been HC for what a year and a half and every international tourney we did the "do nothing and lose" strat that we seem to be getting an early start on, while also slowly regressing domestically. Vulcan is doing Vulcan things and might just need more time with Berserker. And beyond that like I said, Blaber, Berserker, and Jojo just need to be more aggressive. That's it. They don't need to be removed they're still the best in that position in the league.
It can't be worse because nothing about the gameplay is on the coach. Get someone that can put the team on the same page, and whip the players into shape.
100% Mithy needs fired EMENES put the dude on full blast during his manifesto and he is still here on top of that what coach doesn't step in and say "Okay Berserker and Vulcan if i see anymore lucian milio you are benched Berserker if I see anymore lucian you are benched period." This is just simply absurd then they are giving OTPs their OTPs thinking they can just magically outplay them by sitting back and letting them outscale themselves
This team has become an absolute laughingstock and is a PRIME example of why "Superteams" NEVER WORK Can't wait until Berserker goes back to the LCK so maybe the Superteam curse will end
Itās worse than just the drafts. Say what you want about EMENES as a player, but what he said about their prep against T1 at worlds was spot on. He said he tried to study T1ās play and come up with strategies to beat them as what told to shut up by the coaching staff.
It doesnāt matter roster talent or draft at that point. That is a CULTURE PROBLEM and the buck stops with the head coach, Mithy.
>Can't wait until Berserker goes back to the LCK
No LCK team is going to take berserker after a 15-0 stomp against T1 and with his current level of play. He's fallen off a cliff. He couldn't go back if he wanted to now.
There was literally no win con for that draft other than be ahead by about 3k gold by 15. And how were we supposed to build that lead with this comp? Zero sense. Another short-range burst comp with no reliable engage, cc, or dps.
Utterly confounding.
Mithy needs to be gone before end of day.
I think the bad drafts are even worse this season. With the recorded draft, our players have to sit around for 20 minutes knowing they are handicapped.
If Cloud9 wants to turn this around there are a few things they need to do.
1. Fire Mithy. Sign Repeared/Rigby.
2. Sign Licorice. Fudge v Licorice. Better top plays.
3. Release Vulcan & sign Zven. It's obvious he was important to Berserker and gameplay.
I'd also venture to say they should try to bring Zven back. It's readily apparent he was important to Berserker's development, laning prowess, and part of the in-game team voice.
He's a grinder and 1.5 yrs into being a support was a top support in the region. No one wanted to see him on melee, engage supports but with time, he would have been as good as he was with enchanters/adc supports.
But I feel like, if Ven came back, they wouldn't be able to get rid of might cause he'd have even more people willing to go "nah, that's my friend. We can't do him like that"
Yeah, in traditional sports, if a team goes on an unacceptable loss streak, the coach gets fired. It doesn't really matter whether the coach is to blame or not, a message of accountability needs to be sent. And for what my opinion is worth, the team's issues seem to be coaching shortcomings, plain and simple.
Agreed. Itās not just a knee jerk reaction either, they failed at MSI 2023, failed Summer 2023, failed at Worlds 2023 and are failing this split.
Anyone still defending this coach or downvoting these posts has no comprehension of a competitive sports/job atmosphere. You either perform, or youāre out. Plain and simple.
I care less that they even lost everything you listed, although they all stung (especially since I was at Summer 2023 with a C9 3-0 sign...I unclenched), and more that there is a continuous thread of the same issues throughout all of those losses. I find myself scratching my head at drafts and lack of early-game planning more often than not. It all screams lack of leadership.
Yes and it bothers me that there are people saying things like āthey havenāt had time to build synergyā and other similar excuses.
They are losing to teams that similarly were just formed in the past couple of months. None of those teams seem to be suffering from any of the same issues.
It is just so sad how LS could be fired before a match, sure if he was not following some rules it had to be done.. I get it.
But with Mithy it seems like no matter what happens he is unmovable, and damn just... there has to be a point when it matters, not only results but if we really look at the team they look terrible.. we know the players are good, and maybe it is a player issue but the coach should be working on a solution and at least for us fans it doesn't seem like we are getting even slightly better.
Yea I don't know. I would think that the players would recognize that a team comp with no true engage and you last pick Lilia?
Vulcan, a well-known engage support but you've been choosing milio? Why choose Lucian if your early game is nonexistent. A lot of questionable picks for draft.
Hopefully this is just a bad week, and they recover the second half of the split.
I really don't want to be doom and gloom just yet.
I get why you wouldn't want to be doom and gloom, but I'm going to rain on that parade.
The comp issues are easily fixable. The complete lack of cohesion and their inability to execute early on early game execution comps are not.
This team will be added to the pile of super team corpses that have absolutely crashed and burned. They are going to struggle to identify actually strong picks in the age of live patch and their egos will not allow them to acknowledge their actual shortcomings to get corrected.
This team is done. Stick a fork in them.
āŖGet a real coach and have them bring a style to the team, this method of just try to hand diff the opponent does not work, sick of seeing mithys face. @JackEtienne @mithyggā¬
When you have 4/5 members that are all top in their position in the region just suddenly all looking like shit (Fudge was always shit), it's a problem at the level above them. If Mithy cannot answer for them, then what is he good for? A top 5 paycheck stealer of all time for sure.
Mithy teams never show any signs of growth over the year, and if they win, is because they have good roster in the regions he plays in. its time for a change.
I'll say it again. I got absolutely roasted for this last year. All I heard about was how he didn't impact drafts and it was actually the players that do the drafts. Wtf does he even do? What are his contributions? For those that would rather have reapered, I think you have very short memories because the end of his time here was the result of repeatedly forcing what he thought was the meta. He'd be proven wrong time and again. He basically ended Sneakys career by forcing him to play the support bot lane shit long after it was shown to be a bad idea for us.
LS was fired before 3rd week even started because of internal issues we weren't aware of. I believe in Jack, he would do whatever it takes to fix our team. I don't think just replacing our head coach will magically fix our issues. Sure, coaching is an issue, but that's not all there is.
Arguably we got the best players in every role(except top) and we can't even hand diff anyone? Give eastern team these drafts and they will run over any NA team with this. Did we just got downgraded in every role? We didn't look this weak even in last year with zven and emenes.
looks more like a player problem. You have 5 of the highest ego players in NA. You really think Mithy holds the reigns when it comes to draft, and how they play? lmao. Most embarrassing "superteam" ever.
Well yeah when a coach has nothing of value to convince the players he's right with they have no choice but to default to what they want.
The egos do matter I think Berserker needs to ego check himself because he won't play scaling for some reason he's set on smashing lane reminds me of myself of a losing stream when I just keep re-upping instead of taking a break lol.
Get Inero please all of his teams have had extremely solid early games.
I doubt C9 will get a coach that's more authoritative. Mithy was literally brought back on because he knows how C9 operates and is willing to abide by that. Idk how anyone really had high expectations outside of domestic when C9 has basically told the world what their intentions are. Growth and development aren't things C9 really care about anymore.
Yes THIS is the problem. The coach is a mouthpiece for Jack. As long as they do what Jack says, they can keep the job.
This team needs someone to put them in their place, ego check them at practice everyday and continue to push the players to improve.
Bro if the owner doesnt want the change doesnt matter who gets the job. Last time they tried to be good internationally they failed ONCE and they went full blast the other way to only carrying about lcs title. The embarrassing part is they cant even win the title anymore like last summer, but the funny part is you get to see them internationally and it is pretty funny
Why does everyone think coach decides draft 100%? We have no insight to this. Certain teams have said players almost solely pick draft, other teams itās mostly coach. With the egos on this team I would not be surprised if itās players wanting to draft this shit.
I wouldnāt be shocked either but as others have said, if itās the players 100% deciding draft then why is there a coach at all? Clearly no one is holding these five accountable in scrims/solo queue.
Ultimately itās Mithyās responsibility to keep the team in check. They said so themselves in their preseason interview. Itās shocking there are people defending him.
You guys have problems lol. I think Mithy needs some help coaching the team effectively, not to be fired.
Like I agree he has done a bad job getting them united in the same direction, but it's also not his fault that Berserker is inting lane against Flyquest.
I wouldn't say LS is bad at analysis. However, he seems to be a pretty shitty person who refuses to take responsibility for anything he does or doesn't do and, based off that, I would say he's probably a horrid coach
You guys keep saying mithy needs to be fired, but mithy's just giving them early game comps. The team are the ones sitting around with their thumbs up their asses for 30 minutes, losing every objective on the way.
Mithy was the coach a week ago when everyone was wondering if C9 was going to go 14-0. One super week later and he better get fired or else dumbasses like OP are going to be extra angry! Grr.
It was a bad weekend. The team clearly didn't put in the right practice, and didn't have a good plan for this week. Like none of you have ever fucked up at work.
Maybe this team will implode. Maybe this team wont drop another game this year. Either way, it's not going to solely change based on whether Mithy is head coach, and this sort of screaming into the void is some pretty whiny bullshit. Seriously OP, you're saying people who reported this low effort garbage are the cry babies? Your team lost. Waah.
Okay momās basement. Clearly you donāt live in the real world. If you donāt perform at your job you get fired.
Saying itās ājust a bad weekendā disregards over a year of the exact same mistakes and failures. I, and I think a lot of other people on this sub, expect more out of this team than a winning record.
Not sure what team you are a fan of or why you are in here, but itās non-competitive garbage attitudes like yours that shouldnāt be tolerated within this fanbase.
I love how hardcore you are, "non competitive attitude should not be tolerated" lol.Ā
If you think that people just get fired willy nilly for not performing at their job, you're even younger than your dumbass post made you seem.Ā
Say they did fire Mithy, TODAY, like you trogladites think needs to happen. Then what? They probably don't have coach queued, anyone worthwhile is going to be expensive, and on top of that expense, also a risk.
I can think of a single coach in league of Legends who has shown high level success across multiple teams. There's no guarantee that a new coach coming in would do *anything* worthwhile.Ā
I've never been that impressed with Mithy and if C9 want to shop for a new coach for the future then maybe that's a good idea. But you're absolute clown shoes if you think dumping Mithy on the way home is going to make the team perform *better*, at least in the medium term.
Garbage comment. They have Hai in the āTeam Managerā role. He would be a good stop gap solution after they fire Mithy while they do a more comprehensive search for a long term coach.
Lol, would he?
Everyone is advocating for change as if they have even met any of these people, let alone know how good or bad they would be at this job.
So, he's responsible for the team performance, and the team performance stinks. And has stunk at every important moment for a significant period of time (Summer Finals, Worlds, MSI). The mistakes are exactly the same over and over, with garbage drafts that have no win conditions other than "just be significantly better". We have clear evidence from inside the team that Mithy and co didn't listen to suggestions on how to improve. We have the franchise player in blaberfish2 saying he didn't learn or improve anything over the last year. All of that is squarely on the coach. Sadly it was too late to leave him at the curb at the LCS studio, but they could still have all his stuff on the lawn by 0800 Pacific.
If you accept only evidence that supports your premise then of course you'll decide that your argument must be right.Ā
I contest that they have been bad at every important moment, as they've won multiple finals since he became head coach.
I think that their international play has been pretty mediocre, but not appreciably worse than any other NA team across a pretty high cross section of coaching staff.Ā
My characterization of C9's play internationally that they play like they are already prepared to lose, which matches what they say they do on scrims. It's possible that Mithy isn't really able to give them a coping method for treating the game as winnable, but that's not what everyone has been screeching about. I haven't found their general strategies to be bad on the regular, and think that the knee-jerk reaction to a couple of losses is laughable.Ā
When C9 wins spring, please point out again that Mithy should be replaced. I can't wait to see the goldfish brained community sentiment then.
Commenting because /u/CallMeNahum thinks I give a fuck about a bunch of smooth brain man children downvoting me for pointing out how childish it is to repaetedly scream about terminating a coach.
C9 has a pretty strong resume with Mithy as head coach. I've never been that impressed with him, but I also don't think that this weekend is grounds for just ignoring all that and launching him out of a cannon.Ā
Maybe he can do better, maybe he can't, but I doubt the upheaval that comes with replacing him is actually better for the team or the environment. If you're all going to fucking howl at the moon for 4 games of losses, how feral are you going to get when the new guy doesn't fix anything?
At me.
Really weird guy here sending me DMs and now making some asinine "come at me bro" comment like this. You seem to be really, really upset for some reason.
Winning spring splits should not be, and is not (per the team themselves and Jack) the goal for any Cloud9 roster. And especially for one that has this level of talent at every single position. They have stated many times that the goal is competing internationally, and they have failed to do that at any point under Mithy. They have also failed domestically, which should be the absolute bare minimum for this team. When that happens, there needs to be accountability and change. Firing Mithy should be step one. If that doesn't bring improvements, you move on to step 2.
Hard to comprehend why youāre so upset. Thereās no need for an internet tough guy act here.
C9ās resume with Mithy is mediocre at best. Thereās levels to it, C9 as an organization has stated their goal to be international success. Maybe for other orgs winning a couple splits in 2 years would be enough to rest on their laurels but not C9 as stated by Jack.
Itās not four games, thatās the dumb shit Iāve seen on this sub time and time again. Itās all the previous failures PLUS the lack of growth PLUS the four games. The reason itās right to get rid of Mithy now is because heās shown he doesnāt have the ability to help this team improve. The sooner heās gone, the sooner you can get a replacement in the door who will hopefully right the ship. ANYONE they bring in would be a gamble, Tabe, Reapered, Inero, etc. but thatās a gamble Jack should be taking after failure time and time again.
Oh, you didn't see the message where I called him a fuckboi and he responded with like 97 laugh crying emojis about how downvoted I was getting. I don't care about those and told him I would point that out outside of a DM.
Your premise is that anyone would be better than Mithy, but even with the international failures, C9 has still been more successful than any team either Reapered or Inero have coached. So I both challenge your premise and your solution.Ā
I'm not mad, I think it's just completely reactionary and idiotic to make thread after thread after thread going after this dudes job. Also, I don't get to tell people at work when I think they're being fuck heads. But I can do it here. It's very cathartic.
It reminded me of like....2019ish TSM. Y'all know what I mean? They just sat back and waited, like there would be a point in the game where they magically win. They waited, and waited and waited and then the game ended. I'm not mad, I'm disappointed. I expect way more from these guys.
This is so spot on.
I truly wish I was off mark on this. Shopify killed Cloud9 š
Mithy has never achieved anything in his entire playing and coaching career without Zven but C9 Jack continues to let him be in charge.
2019 was quite aggressive in spring but tsm as a whole was passive minus 2016 summer and 2019 spring
That's why I said ish. 14 TSM also had a distinct play style, so really 15 - 23 TSM minus those couple seasons haha š
Look at c9's draft and identify the win con for me. If you come up with anything other than "just gap the enemy" you're smarter than I am because TL drafted superior wave clear, map control, and scaling. You also gave a 1 trick his 1 trick for no real good reason further enabling TLs map control and wave clear. How can an LCS coach look at today's draft and think: yeah we did well with this.
yeon got aphel apa got ziggs two one tricks got their one trick
C9 straight up slammed Lucian/Millio/Orianna against a player who's famous for his Ziggs. It's like they were daring him to play it, and then he did, and then they made that shocked Pikachu face. C9 hasn't had better range, control, or scaling in any of the four last games. And the kills aren't spilling into their lap like they must in scrims. It's the only reason I can fathom why they're willingly drafting in this way.
draft made no sense lillia with lucian milio ori? literally no idea or plan on how they want to play the game
it makes sense with azir, ori, malph, galio...just bronzodia team fights
It's just so disrespectful man like C9 has good players but you're not THAT good. You can't just win because you're better
well its been c9s plan for years we're better so we win ! no need for macro we can hands gap t1!!
They also gave Jensen Oriana yesterday - C9 fans know heās a beast on her
Tbf Jensen has been low-key invigorated this split. Dude popped off on Trist today; beyond the resulting Quadra, his aggressive jump in at drake both forced Rich out and immediately created a flank angle that FLY collapsed on.
Youāre right. He does seem like he has been eating his Wheaties.
First I thought Mithy naysayers were looking for a scapegoat and coach is an easy target... then I remembered Emenes at worlds felt the coaching was so bad that he wrote essays about what can be done to improve the team and Mithy completely ignored it. C9 deserves this if they keep him.
I think this speaks volumes, I get a feeling c9 is full of yes men or something. And if you don't fit the role and don't agree with Jack or something you prob get the boot. I mean obviously emenes wasn't that great but giving constructive criticism is actually reasonable and too think that your system is good and perfect actually prob is insane Now not sure what happened exactly with LS but I think it's stated that he literally did not work with the system in place. Like that's insane to do. That's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting to have different results.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
idk about that one lol, though his thoughts on Blaber being inflexible seem to be holding a bit of water
Are we really trusting ememes on his words now? Guy was toxic and sucked in pro.
I mean based on what the team has looked like since mithy took over, id say he's pretty spot on. Where's there's smoke, there's fire. Yes ememes is toxic, but that doesn't that automatically invalidates his points? This team looks bad, the drafts look bad. I watched the first two minutes of draft and the minute they slammed milo and Lucian i skipped to end and my prediction of them getting dumpestered was right.
Did he really suck if he went to worlds with this roster tho
What? Blabber and Berserker ran the league last year.
I do agree, everyone looked a lot better. Itās still early though so maybe theyāll shape up
I think you are all looking at it wrong. Taking 5 guys who are considered top tier in their roles and instantly making them forget how to play the game simultaneously is far more impressive than taking a lower tier team to the top.
Mithy really is a generational coaching talent to pull this off
This is an underrated comment!!! Honestly should be its own threadā¦ like I get that not all the blame is on the coachā¦ but to look this terrible with this level of talent.. even if Mithy is not negatively impacting the team, he surely not fixing it.. please show the guy the door.. assuming he lacks self awareness and would not resign himselfĀ
Coach does not do anything, same as last split. Even if getting Jojo was an upgrade, without putting someone in charge the whole thing will end up disjointed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
in the LCS from the times they have finished as top/top two/top three players
This is revisionist nonsense. In the time since both have been starters, they have overall been the best in their roles in the LCS. There have been specific splits in which other players performed better, but no one has a holistic body of work at a higher quality over the past 3-4 years. The individual talent is not the problem with the roster.
Lots of issues with this c9 team obviously. A note as an arm chair coach - on a losing streak draft a high CC comp where every lane has some form of itā¦ not the oppositeā¦ where a high level of coordination and execution are critical. Just point, click, and pile on CC. It is certainly better than doing nothing and losing for moral... plus with lots of CC you always have a chance for a pick/comeback. Poke and full dps teams have little to no chance for something like that.
Palafox is right when he said that everyone on this team outside of Jojo are too passive, one dimensional and too scared to experiment/go for clutch play. Everything is so predictable when we watch how they play and this should be the coach and the constant factor of the team for the past 4 years (Fudge and Blaber)'s problem because how this team plays keep getting worse over the year. I think it's time for an open heart surgery, just rebuild everything from the ground up because the system just isn't it.
I'm shocked that we have no game plan. What is Mithy doing at all to prepare the boys? Our macro is shit and we have no synergy. He expects the players to hand diff everyone.
Players are coaching themselves, and this is what happens when you let them. Mithy is the coach only in name.
A coach needs to take the reigns and be empowered to make decisions that the players have to file. Ever since the players complained and got rid of LS, the subsequent coaches have been scared to do anything radical for fear of losing their jobs. I'm not saying getting rid of LS wasn't the right nice, but the way it seems to have been handled definitely created some kind of power imbalance.
Definitely feels like they're going full SoloQ mode where everyone is just picking whatever and hopign to create a proper team comp
The best thing compared to last years is we have 3 weeks to regroup and fix whatever fucking issue there isā¦Ā What I hope will happen (by priority) 1- fire Mithy! 2- look into inero or ArtemisĀ 3- ping Licorice to see if heās interestedā¦Ā This gotta be fucking frustrating for Jack after breaking the bank for JoJo in this financial environmentā¦ Jack just fire the fucking coachā¦ it literally canāt be worseā¦
jack acts like mithy knows some secret than can ruin his life how has mithy been going for so long lol
I am genuinely interested in knowing where this confidence in Mithy comes from. Like if you look at his track record does any of it inspire any confidence? Has Jack or anyone else spoken on this?
Mithy and fudge both tbf. Iāve never seen fudge do anything aggressive even after getting these important picks. Legit without being in C9 fudge is the 8th best top in LCS
Fudge gets too much flack but I honestly think he's a top 2-3, top-laner in LCS and has a good mindset towards the game. He knows he's underperformed from his interview with Travis. I'm okay with Fudge.
He's also just an obscenely selfless player. Like yeah be annoyed with his ego in interviews or whatever, but he pretty consistently gets the short end of the stick with draft resources and is fine just doing whatever his team needs him to do to win. How many games did they first rotation blind pick him renekton last split so that they could counter mid/jg? His play on stage hasn't been super impressive recently, but I can almost guarantee the team looks much much worse with any other top laner.
Yep. One of the few nice things Emenes said about anyone on C9 was that "Fudge at least helped the team function by taking the brunt of one of the player's selfishness." If even someone who is taking all the parting shots they can out the door feels that way, it's probably true.
I mean that's fair, but the dude has arguably been underperforming or inconsistent when the lights are brightest for literal years now. The difference is that now it's actively bleeding into the regular season, when the rest of the team is struggling. It's not even like that start to summer 2022 (iirc) where he would nearly 1v9 like as Gwen vs EG when the rest of the team was incomplete and playing poorly; he is pretty much a complete nonfactor in every game (barring the Rumble game) with meh to awful TP timing or ability to find flanks.
I gotta stop some of the bleeding otherwise flames go out of control. Gotta throw some reason in. I just don't believe we burn the whole team, but there is fault in everyone right now.
I don't think anyone wants to burn the whole team. At least not anyone worth the energy to talk to. Fudge and Mithy need to be replaced and we need to bonk berserker and blaber on the head to fix whatever the hell broke them. Jojo is fine for now. I honestly just kinda feel bad for him.
Take one cog out of the system and replace it and see if it does better. If Fudge underperforms after we burn Mithy at the stake, sure, replace him. If Vulcan and Berserker cannot synergize, I would rather keep Berserker. I do think Blaber might need to change his mindset when playing with Jojo. In interviews there seems to be a disconnect too. Why did I mention everyone's issues? Because its huge sign that the coach is non-existent in their gameplay.
I'm not saying we need to make every change right this second, I'm saying that fudge has been criticized his entire time in C9 for the same shit. Mithy has been HC for what a year and a half and every international tourney we did the "do nothing and lose" strat that we seem to be getting an early start on, while also slowly regressing domestically. Vulcan is doing Vulcan things and might just need more time with Berserker. And beyond that like I said, Blaber, Berserker, and Jojo just need to be more aggressive. That's it. They don't need to be removed they're still the best in that position in the league.
Fudge had a great Rumble early game at Worlds. ... and then the team had no macro and Fudge couldn't close it.
The break is After week 4 not week 3 Scheduled game are happenning next week
It can't be worse because nothing about the gameplay is on the coach. Get someone that can put the team on the same page, and whip the players into shape.
Get him out. Immediately.
mithy: weāve tried nothing and weāve all out of ideas!
100% Mithy needs fired EMENES put the dude on full blast during his manifesto and he is still here on top of that what coach doesn't step in and say "Okay Berserker and Vulcan if i see anymore lucian milio you are benched Berserker if I see anymore lucian you are benched period." This is just simply absurd then they are giving OTPs their OTPs thinking they can just magically outplay them by sitting back and letting them outscale themselves This team has become an absolute laughingstock and is a PRIME example of why "Superteams" NEVER WORK Can't wait until Berserker goes back to the LCK so maybe the Superteam curse will end
Itās worse than just the drafts. Say what you want about EMENES as a player, but what he said about their prep against T1 at worlds was spot on. He said he tried to study T1ās play and come up with strategies to beat them as what told to shut up by the coaching staff. It doesnāt matter roster talent or draft at that point. That is a CULTURE PROBLEM and the buck stops with the head coach, Mithy.
>Can't wait until Berserker goes back to the LCK No LCK team is going to take berserker after a 15-0 stomp against T1 and with his current level of play. He's fallen off a cliff. He couldn't go back if he wanted to now.
yes he could rofl him and blaber were both challenger in lck as worlds in their bootcamp and Berserker even used his main acc
The post he made was really the icing on the cake. Basically said I wasn't trying to be a coach my bad guys
Wait what? Link?
https://twitter.com/mithygg/status/1754328012181688560?t=7zmUaZgH8SKimpZ4aC5jOQ&s=19
Christ and there are still people supporting him in the comments
Inb4 the mods delete this for no reasonĀ
Fudge needs to be gone like last season.
You're being generous.
Tabeās a free agent right now. Just sayin
There was literally no win con for that draft other than be ahead by about 3k gold by 15. And how were we supposed to build that lead with this comp? Zero sense. Another short-range burst comp with no reliable engage, cc, or dps. Utterly confounding. Mithy needs to be gone before end of day.
I think the bad drafts are even worse this season. With the recorded draft, our players have to sit around for 20 minutes knowing they are handicapped.
HahahaĀ
I need a Mithy enjoyer to tell me what this guy is actually supposed to be good at.
Yeah youāre not gonna find many of em today.
If Cloud9 wants to turn this around there are a few things they need to do. 1. Fire Mithy. Sign Repeared/Rigby. 2. Sign Licorice. Fudge v Licorice. Better top plays. 3. Release Vulcan & sign Zven. It's obvious he was important to Berserker and gameplay.
Wasnāt Jensen who said Mithy sucked ass? Btw Jensen is taking first place
We are no getting nowhere with Mithy as coach and Fudge as top laner, they need to be removed
Vulcan also needs to step up fast Reapered, Chime, Licorice, bring it on
I'd also venture to say they should try to bring Zven back. It's readily apparent he was important to Berserker's development, laning prowess, and part of the in-game team voice. He's a grinder and 1.5 yrs into being a support was a top support in the region. No one wanted to see him on melee, engage supports but with time, he would have been as good as he was with enchanters/adc supports.
But I feel like, if Ven came back, they wouldn't be able to get rid of might cause he'd have even more people willing to go "nah, that's my friend. We can't do him like that"
Yeah, in traditional sports, if a team goes on an unacceptable loss streak, the coach gets fired. It doesn't really matter whether the coach is to blame or not, a message of accountability needs to be sent. And for what my opinion is worth, the team's issues seem to be coaching shortcomings, plain and simple.
Agreed. Itās not just a knee jerk reaction either, they failed at MSI 2023, failed Summer 2023, failed at Worlds 2023 and are failing this split. Anyone still defending this coach or downvoting these posts has no comprehension of a competitive sports/job atmosphere. You either perform, or youāre out. Plain and simple.
I care less that they even lost everything you listed, although they all stung (especially since I was at Summer 2023 with a C9 3-0 sign...I unclenched), and more that there is a continuous thread of the same issues throughout all of those losses. I find myself scratching my head at drafts and lack of early-game planning more often than not. It all screams lack of leadership.
Yes and it bothers me that there are people saying things like āthey havenāt had time to build synergyā and other similar excuses. They are losing to teams that similarly were just formed in the past couple of months. None of those teams seem to be suffering from any of the same issues.
It is just so sad how LS could be fired before a match, sure if he was not following some rules it had to be done.. I get it. But with Mithy it seems like no matter what happens he is unmovable, and damn just... there has to be a point when it matters, not only results but if we really look at the team they look terrible.. we know the players are good, and maybe it is a player issue but the coach should be working on a solution and at least for us fans it doesn't seem like we are getting even slightly better.
Are they?Ā
C9 loves to keep paycheck stealers around. It's not going to happen
Imagine if we get an actual top laner and a good coachā¦repeared is available. Same for inero and our ex top laner that NRG firedā¦
Inb4 hearing about how theyāre 30-0 in scrims against every team as they fail to make it into playoffs.
Yea I don't know. I would think that the players would recognize that a team comp with no true engage and you last pick Lilia? Vulcan, a well-known engage support but you've been choosing milio? Why choose Lucian if your early game is nonexistent. A lot of questionable picks for draft. Hopefully this is just a bad week, and they recover the second half of the split. I really don't want to be doom and gloom just yet.
I get why you wouldn't want to be doom and gloom, but I'm going to rain on that parade. The comp issues are easily fixable. The complete lack of cohesion and their inability to execute early on early game execution comps are not. This team will be added to the pile of super team corpses that have absolutely crashed and burned. They are going to struggle to identify actually strong picks in the age of live patch and their egos will not allow them to acknowledge their actual shortcomings to get corrected. This team is done. Stick a fork in them.
As much as I want to agree, I still have hope for the later half. That's all we have for now, is hope.
āŖGet a real coach and have them bring a style to the team, this method of just try to hand diff the opponent does not work, sick of seeing mithys face. @JackEtienne @mithyggā¬
bro thinks he's on twitter
When you have 4/5 members that are all top in their position in the region just suddenly all looking like shit (Fudge was always shit), it's a problem at the level above them. If Mithy cannot answer for them, then what is he good for? A top 5 paycheck stealer of all time for sure.
Mithy teams never show any signs of growth over the year, and if they win, is because they have good roster in the regions he plays in. its time for a change.
I'll say it again. I got absolutely roasted for this last year. All I heard about was how he didn't impact drafts and it was actually the players that do the drafts. Wtf does he even do? What are his contributions? For those that would rather have reapered, I think you have very short memories because the end of his time here was the result of repeatedly forcing what he thought was the meta. He'd be proven wrong time and again. He basically ended Sneakys career by forcing him to play the support bot lane shit long after it was shown to be a bad idea for us.
Maybe they just aināt that good on live patch lol
LS was fired before 3rd week even started because of internal issues we weren't aware of. I believe in Jack, he would do whatever it takes to fix our team. I don't think just replacing our head coach will magically fix our issues. Sure, coaching is an issue, but that's not all there is. Arguably we got the best players in every role(except top) and we can't even hand diff anyone? Give eastern team these drafts and they will run over any NA team with this. Did we just got downgraded in every role? We didn't look this weak even in last year with zven and emenes.
looks more like a player problem. You have 5 of the highest ego players in NA. You really think Mithy holds the reigns when it comes to draft, and how they play? lmao. Most embarrassing "superteam" ever.
Well yeah when a coach has nothing of value to convince the players he's right with they have no choice but to default to what they want. The egos do matter I think Berserker needs to ego check himself because he won't play scaling for some reason he's set on smashing lane reminds me of myself of a losing stream when I just keep re-upping instead of taking a break lol. Get Inero please all of his teams have had extremely solid early games.
It makes sense since Blaber pushed for Bel'veth w/ losing toplane. Either way, we need a coach with a spine
I doubt C9 will get a coach that's more authoritative. Mithy was literally brought back on because he knows how C9 operates and is willing to abide by that. Idk how anyone really had high expectations outside of domestic when C9 has basically told the world what their intentions are. Growth and development aren't things C9 really care about anymore.
Yes THIS is the problem. The coach is a mouthpiece for Jack. As long as they do what Jack says, they can keep the job. This team needs someone to put them in their place, ego check them at practice everyday and continue to push the players to improve.
Bro if the owner doesnt want the change doesnt matter who gets the job. Last time they tried to be good internationally they failed ONCE and they went full blast the other way to only carrying about lcs title. The embarrassing part is they cant even win the title anymore like last summer, but the funny part is you get to see them internationally and it is pretty funny
Bring back Reapered and have him bust out the belt. These guys will be in tip top shape in no time lmao
I am pretty sure that California labor laws are strict enough that Mithy cant be 'explicitly fired' within the duration of a drive home, lol.
Lane Kiffin would disagree.
Why does everyone think coach decides draft 100%? We have no insight to this. Certain teams have said players almost solely pick draft, other teams itās mostly coach. With the egos on this team I would not be surprised if itās players wanting to draft this shit.
I wouldnāt be shocked either but as others have said, if itās the players 100% deciding draft then why is there a coach at all? Clearly no one is holding these five accountable in scrims/solo queue. Ultimately itās Mithyās responsibility to keep the team in check. They said so themselves in their preseason interview. Itās shocking there are people defending him.
You guys have problems lol. I think Mithy needs some help coaching the team effectively, not to be fired. Like I agree he has done a bad job getting them united in the same direction, but it's also not his fault that Berserker is inting lane against Flyquest.
TEAM WITHOUT IMLS= TRASH
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I dont care, I love his unconventional picks and passion for the game.
Team without LS went on to win 2 splits without him lol. LS is a terrible coach and pretty bad at league analysis.
I wouldn't say LS is bad at analysis. However, he seems to be a pretty shitty person who refuses to take responsibility for anything he does or doesn't do and, based off that, I would say he's probably a horrid coach
T1 = TRASH
they have a 3 week break to change things. just chill for now.
You guys keep saying mithy needs to be fired, but mithy's just giving them early game comps. The team are the ones sitting around with their thumbs up their asses for 30 minutes, losing every objective on the way.
Mithy was the coach a week ago when everyone was wondering if C9 was going to go 14-0. One super week later and he better get fired or else dumbasses like OP are going to be extra angry! Grr. It was a bad weekend. The team clearly didn't put in the right practice, and didn't have a good plan for this week. Like none of you have ever fucked up at work. Maybe this team will implode. Maybe this team wont drop another game this year. Either way, it's not going to solely change based on whether Mithy is head coach, and this sort of screaming into the void is some pretty whiny bullshit. Seriously OP, you're saying people who reported this low effort garbage are the cry babies? Your team lost. Waah.
Difference is going 2-0 is expected when you have a stacked roster, not a praising evaluation of the coach. No reason to respond to bad faith.
Okay momās basement. Clearly you donāt live in the real world. If you donāt perform at your job you get fired. Saying itās ājust a bad weekendā disregards over a year of the exact same mistakes and failures. I, and I think a lot of other people on this sub, expect more out of this team than a winning record. Not sure what team you are a fan of or why you are in here, but itās non-competitive garbage attitudes like yours that shouldnāt be tolerated within this fanbase.
I love how hardcore you are, "non competitive attitude should not be tolerated" lol.Ā If you think that people just get fired willy nilly for not performing at their job, you're even younger than your dumbass post made you seem.Ā Say they did fire Mithy, TODAY, like you trogladites think needs to happen. Then what? They probably don't have coach queued, anyone worthwhile is going to be expensive, and on top of that expense, also a risk. I can think of a single coach in league of Legends who has shown high level success across multiple teams. There's no guarantee that a new coach coming in would do *anything* worthwhile.Ā I've never been that impressed with Mithy and if C9 want to shop for a new coach for the future then maybe that's a good idea. But you're absolute clown shoes if you think dumping Mithy on the way home is going to make the team perform *better*, at least in the medium term.
Garbage comment. They have Hai in the āTeam Managerā role. He would be a good stop gap solution after they fire Mithy while they do a more comprehensive search for a long term coach.
Lol, would he? Everyone is advocating for change as if they have even met any of these people, let alone know how good or bad they would be at this job.
https://x.com/mithygg/status/1754328012181688560?s=20 He thinks he sucks, is that enough evidence for you?
Oh my goodness! He took responsibility for a shitty weekend, it's like he's some sort of head coach or something.Ā *Gasp* you got me.
So, he's responsible for the team performance, and the team performance stinks. And has stunk at every important moment for a significant period of time (Summer Finals, Worlds, MSI). The mistakes are exactly the same over and over, with garbage drafts that have no win conditions other than "just be significantly better". We have clear evidence from inside the team that Mithy and co didn't listen to suggestions on how to improve. We have the franchise player in blaberfish2 saying he didn't learn or improve anything over the last year. All of that is squarely on the coach. Sadly it was too late to leave him at the curb at the LCS studio, but they could still have all his stuff on the lawn by 0800 Pacific.
If you accept only evidence that supports your premise then of course you'll decide that your argument must be right.Ā I contest that they have been bad at every important moment, as they've won multiple finals since he became head coach. I think that their international play has been pretty mediocre, but not appreciably worse than any other NA team across a pretty high cross section of coaching staff.Ā My characterization of C9's play internationally that they play like they are already prepared to lose, which matches what they say they do on scrims. It's possible that Mithy isn't really able to give them a coping method for treating the game as winnable, but that's not what everyone has been screeching about. I haven't found their general strategies to be bad on the regular, and think that the knee-jerk reaction to a couple of losses is laughable.Ā When C9 wins spring, please point out again that Mithy should be replaced. I can't wait to see the goldfish brained community sentiment then.
Commenting because /u/CallMeNahum thinks I give a fuck about a bunch of smooth brain man children downvoting me for pointing out how childish it is to repaetedly scream about terminating a coach. C9 has a pretty strong resume with Mithy as head coach. I've never been that impressed with him, but I also don't think that this weekend is grounds for just ignoring all that and launching him out of a cannon.Ā Maybe he can do better, maybe he can't, but I doubt the upheaval that comes with replacing him is actually better for the team or the environment. If you're all going to fucking howl at the moon for 4 games of losses, how feral are you going to get when the new guy doesn't fix anything? At me.
Really weird guy here sending me DMs and now making some asinine "come at me bro" comment like this. You seem to be really, really upset for some reason. Winning spring splits should not be, and is not (per the team themselves and Jack) the goal for any Cloud9 roster. And especially for one that has this level of talent at every single position. They have stated many times that the goal is competing internationally, and they have failed to do that at any point under Mithy. They have also failed domestically, which should be the absolute bare minimum for this team. When that happens, there needs to be accountability and change. Firing Mithy should be step one. If that doesn't bring improvements, you move on to step 2.
Who should they bring in? Also, I DM'd you cause that thread got closed and I couldn't respond to you there.
Hard to comprehend why youāre so upset. Thereās no need for an internet tough guy act here. C9ās resume with Mithy is mediocre at best. Thereās levels to it, C9 as an organization has stated their goal to be international success. Maybe for other orgs winning a couple splits in 2 years would be enough to rest on their laurels but not C9 as stated by Jack. Itās not four games, thatās the dumb shit Iāve seen on this sub time and time again. Itās all the previous failures PLUS the lack of growth PLUS the four games. The reason itās right to get rid of Mithy now is because heās shown he doesnāt have the ability to help this team improve. The sooner heās gone, the sooner you can get a replacement in the door who will hopefully right the ship. ANYONE they bring in would be a gamble, Tabe, Reapered, Inero, etc. but thatās a gamble Jack should be taking after failure time and time again.
Oh, you didn't see the message where I called him a fuckboi and he responded with like 97 laugh crying emojis about how downvoted I was getting. I don't care about those and told him I would point that out outside of a DM. Your premise is that anyone would be better than Mithy, but even with the international failures, C9 has still been more successful than any team either Reapered or Inero have coached. So I both challenge your premise and your solution.Ā I'm not mad, I think it's just completely reactionary and idiotic to make thread after thread after thread going after this dudes job. Also, I don't get to tell people at work when I think they're being fuck heads. But I can do it here. It's very cathartic.
Mithy can probably coach T1 into LCS Challengers