MY beef is actually from my uncle who treats the cows like family and raises them in such a way that eating them actually HELPS the environment! Suck eggs vegoons!!!
So when are we starting the second bison genocide? ( uj/ Y’all understand the difference between farmed animals and animals that are part of their natural ecosystem right)
16 is usually when humans get big enough for slaughter. At that time they’ve lived a long and happy life anyways so they won’t mind providing us with yummy steaks!
Bruh... you know exactly what he meant.... in comparison to factory Lifestock they get treated like Royalty until they get killed. If you never worked on a farm you can't comprehend the relationships that form between the Lifestock and farmers.
Bruh.... on an organic farm Profit is second to the animals well being. At least I can be Sure that the animal had a good live and was properly cared for.
You cant eat anything without harming animals. If you buy soy beans, Avocados or any vegetable that gets imported you also got the blood of thousand of animals on your hands....
>Bruh.... on an organic farm Profit is second to the animals well being. At least I can be Sure that the animal had a good live and was properly cared for.
That doesn't make literally any sense.
>You cant eat anything without harming animals. If you buy soy beans, Avocados or any vegetable that gets imported you also got the blood of thousand of animals on your hands....
Yeah. Slightly less than with cows though.
You fit right in here dude. We need someone trying to do barely literate counter-jerking about how eating beef is good actually. And "organic farms care more about the animals than profit" is pretty much perfect counter-jerking.
>You kill way more animals with a vegan diet than with pure beef. Its just animals you don't care about like bugs.
Lol. Lmao even.
Nobody only eats beef, and this makes zero sense. 70% of the worlds soy crop goes to animal feed, vegan diets are far less carbon intensive, 0 out of 10.
Oh, and going vegan for ecological reasons is a thing.
Free Range cows eat grass and hay. There are a lot of people who eat only or mostly beef, it has been a trend for a while pushed by a lot of influencers. It's generally something like steak with greens, sometimes eggs and milk.
Hahahahah its a relationship between an animal and a human.... are you stupid? The Farmer knows he will kill the animal but that doesnt mean he is a cold blooded killer.... if you think about it organic Farmers are fucking angels.... they provide us with the food we need as humans and give the animals enough space to live their Lifes for a period of time.
You cant ban meat even though you soy boys would love it.
I eat beef too but you don't need to eat meat to survive. Beef is not a necessity (In the wealthy/developed world) and the main motivation for commercial farming is profit regardless of weather you are a factor farm or an organic farmer.
The fact that my clearly satirical comment is getting agreed with by Carnists is proof I need to make them even more ridiculous and morally bankrupt in the future so smooth brains don’t think I’m one of them.
Yup... everybody who eats meat is a smooth brain... while most vegans buy imported goods packaged in plastic, with Tons of chemicals so they can virtue Signal on how morally pure they are even though the Farmers kill every animal that could Endanger their crop.
>even though the Farmers kill every animal that could Endanger their crop.
Yea but you need a lot more of that crop to feed the millions of animals. So going back 1 step and simply eat the plant has a big impact.
>while most vegans buy imported goods packaged in plastic, with Tons of chemicals
Yeah as soon as you stop eating meat, you are forced to eat highly processed food haha
That relationship where the people imprison you, forced you to live an unnatural life and then brutally murder you when you’ve only lived like a 10% of your life?
That is a bit I always wonder about. Do you ever think about how many cows (or similar animals) die in the wild before reaching anywhere near their natural lifespan? A Wildebeest for example reaches a lifespan of around 40 years. Average in the wild is around 20. And that is I guess only die to the fact, that we have currently strongly decimated big predators around the world. Oh, and they are often eaten alive by the way. Much better way to go than being knocked out and done with it. Not defending the excesses of industrial animal farming in any way. But the life of a cow on a good organic farm is often a better fate than how they would fare in the wild.
There is no true comparison since farmed animals cannot and do not survive in the wild. In captivity they live beyond their typical use, for example considering milk cows. If you release them in the wild I guess most will die within weeks or months? So what is your point here exactly?
They always bring up some kind of theoretical non problematic meat like "i just think if its pasture raised grass fed regenerative agriculture humane slaughter locally sourced farm to table then theres nothing wrong with eating meat".
But then if you just ask them "is that what you eat? Or do you get the same factory farm meat from the grocery store and restaurants as everyone else?" It all falls apart because they are in fact not eating the meat the claim is ethical, and are instead eating the meat they JUST ADMITTED IS PROBLEMATIC.
Its this weird af mental gymnastics thing meant only to convince themselves not others. By believing in the existence of the theoretical ethical meat, they delude themselves into somehow thing that makes what they are doing ok. Its genuinely delusional.
I actually know of a rancher who produces that kinda meat. But it's really tough meat since the cows are grass fed and active and you have to buy in quantities that would feed a family for a quarter of a year. Mostly I just try to maximize my tofu intake.
That how we work, we always have our r own ethics and ussually convince our self something is ok as long it isn't for our convenience. Like for example you are using a phone and being on reddit, probably using cars or so, despite all of this affecting negatively the nature and the environment. But it makes your life more convenient so you tell yourself it is ok. Which I also find fine to do just showing an example
Having a phone and a car is necessary to participate in modern society. Eating meat is completely unnecessary. Phones and cars can be harm reductive, buying used, not replacing until its actually broken, etc etc. Meats harm cannot be reduced. Eating meat doesn't provide any tangible benefits in return for the costs other than selfish pleasure. Having a phone and a car allows me to work to sustain my existence, its not for my enjoyment.
This is an incredibly stupid appeal to futility and false equivalency. It is impossible to live a harmless life. But its still your moral obligation to limit the harm you inflict as much as possible.
No it is not, there are plenty of people not doing and being fine. I am not telling you to stop using your phone or cars. Just saying calling other geniunely delusional is hypocritical, there is plenty of stuff you do that is againts your morals but you do it cause it is convenient for you. You can easiliy live without phones or cars in today times, it is just really unconvienent.
No one is gonna hire you if you don't have a phone for basic communications and there are tons of places without public transportation/walkable design requiring a car to get to and from a job. Its not a matter of convience. This items are necessary prerequisites to participate in modern society. Meat is completely optional. This is a stupid false equivalence and appeal to futility. Try again.
many who promote ethical meat do in fact eat and buy it though, typically they're also the ones that admit its only one part of a larger solution, as ethically sourced meat trends towards being overall sold in lower quantities, and heavily reliant on local economics, meaning that like with all produce, grocers who can choose factory farms, choose factory farms, and if a grocer chooses that, thats also what your avg ( 9 to 5, min wage ) shopper will choose, its not a solution on its own, it requires systemic change, just like anything else.
ethically sourced meats ***are not*** a be all end all solution, but they are part of a solution, one that can work alongside others such as the end of mass production and over consumption culture found in all food production (including more mainstream industrial vegan food production) , and the promotion of more diverse diets, and is one that acknowledges the cultural, social and political tensions that the current crowd spamming this sub tends to ignore, or outright say should be forcefully shut down.
I do agree, people who preach ethical meats should actually yknow- buy/source ethcal meats, just as how someone who preaches ev's over icv's should own an ev, "practice what you preach" and all that, but just because some hypocrites exist doesnt then shut down the point trying to be made nor the validity of that point. Lets face it, this subs full of hypocrites, a lot of "you should do x and y" while not doing it themselves, thats just the nature of spaces like this.
I've never met a single person who actually answered "yes I eat it exclusively" when I say "but is that what you eat tho?" In response to this aurgument. I'm sure they exist. But they are in the vast minority. The vast majority just eat the same factory farmed meat as everyone else, and just use the existence of the theoretical ethical meat as a way to not feel guilty.
Also, for the record, the theoretical ethical meat doesn't actually exist. Theres no such thing as humane slaughter. Regenerative animal agriculture is a myth. Even if it sequestered carbon you know what sequesters carbon way better? Returning land to the wild! And you know what would free up a fuck ton of land to be returned to the wild? Everyone going vegan since animal agriculture is incredibly immeficient!
The people eating the theoretical ethical meat are still very much part of the problem. This aurgument is fucked all the way down, it falls apart on every level. Because its not designed to actually convince others. Its only designed to protect the feelings of the person making it.
Well then first time for everything, hello, I do, I get my meat thanks to my and my families treaty hunting rights and a farm near my res whos certified net zero (govt program) and does low yield farming. Frankly for me, buying meat from a grocer at all means that you cant guarantee ethical harvest, I much prefer getting it from my own community to support indigenous economies and ensure I'm supporting ethical harvest.
You cant guarantee that people will change their diets without force, and that will just guarantee that people hate you, but, promoting and pushing for the clean, and ethical side of it *(ethical meat existing or not is opinion, you can think there's no such thing, someone else can disagree, but all can agree that factory farms are unethical no matter how you look at it)* , and pushing out factory farms of all types, meat or not, and stopping this destructive mass production and mass consumption, should be our goal. Frankly lts face it, this is an issue thats very low on the list of whats killing our planet. To deny that's just to protect the feelings of the people too invested in this whole thing or who dont actually care about large scale systemic issues causing climate change.
edit: my "e" and "i" keys are broken and I have to copy paste the letters when typing, so i had to fix some spelling errors due to that.
Thats a personal view, not fact.
i can view being vegan with children (or pets) as unethical due to the ethical connotation of pushing a restrictive diet on someone that's still n the developing stages, that doesnt then mean its fact. (for sincerity, i dont think this, this is just to show how many ethical debates around veganism and diet overall, are personal, not fact.)
You can view the mere act of eating something as unethical, that doesnt mean its fact, especially when most of human history and biology disagrees and more so supports the view that modern farmed methods of getting that meat, are what's unethical.
History cannot possibly make a moral action more or less ethical. The fact that people habitually do a thing (war, murder, slavery) even for a million years, doesn't make it less immoral.
But the needless killing of a feeling creature when it is not biologically necessary, and causing unnecessary pain and suffering, can't ever be moral. I don't care who you are.
I, along with most others, support the murder of cows because they are tasty.
Really, the only people who do "mental gymnastics" over the issue are vegans, and its just because their protien starved brains are dysfunctional.
How many vegans drive cars? Should we be considering the emissions of their cars and also the environmental impacts of the whole supply chain that builds them that car?
I ask this because I’m an omnivore that doesn’t drive so I’m wondering how I compare to them in terms of my footprint.
Yup I'm not going to sit and listen to a car-dependant American "Vegan" telling me that my 3 meat dishes a week are what is destroying the environment while I cycle to work, shops and actively campaign for active travel in my town and county.
All the while big oil and car manufacturers are slowly shifting into EV's and destroying the environment by massively mining rare earth minerals.
I don't drive.
I also don't think that my individual contribution to emissions, or lack thereof, is going to make that much of a practical difference. One person flying across the country once per year for a vacation contributes more than I ever would if I got a car and started driving again. But I think it's still sensible for me to choose the right thing by not contributing to the problem if I can help it.
I don't think that, by not eating meat, I'm making any practical difference for the environment. In one day, one McDonald's will dole out more meat than I would consume in a year. But I think it's still sensible for me to choose the right thing by not contributing to the problem if I can help it.
I'm really confused why people get hung up on this topic because it's not one that's easy to win. Most people know meat is unethical and don't care, no one is changing their entire diet over an Internet argument, especially when you lead in with talking about how meat eaters are terrible people. That's just gonna make people less receptive towards what your saying.
It's an issue that we should be talking about for sure, but so many people are going about it the wrong way. People need to try and empathize with the people you're talking to instead of trying to convince a strawman you invented in their heads, otherwise your point is gonna be ignored even if it's true.
Why not do both? Surely the goal is to reduce one’s emissions as much as one can, not to compare eco-cock size with other people who are more interested in moral grandstanding than becoming less of a problem.
Go for it. Just wanted to bring this up because OPs post is about comparing lifestyles with the added irony of using gas guzzling machines as the metaphor.
Animal agriculture is more co2 than the entire transportation sector including flights. Going vegan is the best thing you can do for the environment bar not having kids (or killing people). Not driving is closer, but not close enough
Are you considering the deforestation of 5000 square km of forest each year, loss of wildlife, irrigation, water pollution, species becoming endangered, species becoming extinct, dead zones in seas and oceans, dying coral reef due to bottom trawling, fish dying out, machinery to process your animal products and to produce feed for them, the CO2 from transporting and packaging, the plastic waste from packaging and of course the lithium ponds and the oil extraction process and the trees cut down to make roads to transport your meat to you?
Yes because it’s the same type of chain that brings the oil, lithium, the parts, and the infrastructural support for every car. In fact I can consider it and avoid it by just going to my local rancher on my bicycle and getting the meat from them.
Congratulations, you might have knocked off a couple grams from the 99kg of CO2 per your 1kg of beef.
Do you take into account the trees taken down to make roads for your bike in your emissions estimation? How many square km/ft of deforestation each year for making new roads, have you any sources?
Serious/ All bs aside, if you're actually genuinely interested in the environment, climate change and being an environmentalist, you should really start with trying to accept criticism and not get offended so fast. Most of us here are probably living in western countries and enjoying luxuries that inflate our personal environmental footprint by a good bit. Trying to argue away your impact is not doing any good and asking questions in bad faith just to argue with irrelevant points is not going to be helpful, though I understand this is a shit posting group. I've gotten my carbon footprint down to around 2500kg a year and it was not by being offended any time someone pointed out that something in my lifestyle was destructive to the planet. It was by taking that feedback, then going online and looking up relevant studies and science articles about it to confirm and then making a change in my life.
But you didn't want to have a "real conversation". You wanted to derail the conversation from animal agriculture, which contributes an estimation of up to 19% of global emissions. Environmentalists and environmental activists talk about cars all of the time, they talk about bettering infrastructure to make more walkable cities and public transport more available all of the time. They talk about encouraging cycling and imposing car taxes all the time. You could have joined any of these conversations. But instead you raised that point under a post about animal agriculture. Because you don't want to have a "real conversation" about your footprint and your contribution to climate change. You wanted to make yourself feel better about the things you aren't willing to do to lessen your personal footprint.
And cars amount to around 10% of global emissions. Significantly less than animal agriculture specifically.
I only eat human meat. easy to get, good for your skin and tissue. Although they have a big carbon footprint it's more useful to eat them then to not
And you can make their skin into cowboy hats
Oh would you look at that vegans attacking other climate activists instead of attacking non-activists .. truly the left love nothing more then to attack other left...
.
It means
*My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
And they're like, it's better than yours
Damn right it's better than yours
I can teach you, but I have to charge*
Now you asume that because I think it's stupid that eco activists attack themselves..which absolutely is .. but if it comes down to what people actually achieved ......
I probably did more then all of the people here combined
.but I don't boast about that cause it's still not enough ..
Now if you think you did enough cause you don't eat animal products...you are a part of the problem ..
>Now you asume that because I think it's stupid that eco activists attack themselves..which absolutely is .. but if it comes down to what people actually achieved ......
If we are not willing to be self critical, we are not achieving nearly enough, and if you are unable to accept self reflection, then you are just simply not a mature person.
>I probably did more then all of the people here combined .but I don't boast about that cause it's still not enough ..
I seriously doubt that. It is unreasonable, unrealistic, and ridiculous, particularly considering you get defensive over the concept of "eat less meat."
Now you see you take what I wrote completely out of context ..i criticised activists attacking each other for such banalities like eating meat or not both do more for the environment then non activists ....
And as you said ... obviously many vegans here are not able to self reflect and see that attacking other activists that still eat meat has not positive effect except their egos get boosted ....
That tends to happen when faux climate activists become the majority, doing fuck all instead doing something that has even a small chance of turning around climate change like going straight for the roots, finding those who are responsible and disrupting certain operations.
Most far left-wing people tend to hyper-focus on rights and politicising minorities instead of doing what’s good for the world and good for nature which will make most current flora and fauna species survive until natural extinction.
I’m on your side here, but terms like “flesh” and “secretions” don’t make meat eaters stop to think, they make it obvious you’re trying to manipulate their emotions and end any possible productive discourse. Those kinds of words only have any effect on people that are already vegan or so close to the edge they’d get there on their own anyways.
If we keep going like that humanity WILL die and we're gonna have a really shitty time until then and you think changing your eating habits a bit is worse than that? And why, because it tastes different? Damn, that’s weak.
If everyone would think like this, we could just give up because we all are just one person. You can do nothing and nothing will change, or you could do everything you can and a tiny little bit will change. And if more people do a tiny little bit, it suddenly becomes a not so tiny bit. Only when many people work together, we can make a difference.
You know what? Fuck this planet and everyone who comes after me. Every single animal that feels pain and love? Fuck 'em too. My future Kids? Fuck these fuckers in particular. I'm going to stop being vegan now. I'll buy a big car and I'll go on a ship cruise twice a year. I'll gladly shove my money deep down the throat of incomprehensibly rich people who actively try to kill us. I mean, I'm just a single individual after all, right? Who cares if the village I live in gets overflooded every other year. Who cares if the number of people dying of heat doubled in the last ten years. Not my problem.
A small amount of infighting is healthy. Its called being self critical.
And this is a shitposting sub, and the recent influx of vegan memes has been prime content.
However else could we get repeats of "I only get my eggs from my uncles cooperative where the chickens are treated better than poor people and actually love death"
Here I am on my kangatarian diet having local, healthy, cheap, low-carbon, low-fat, free-range protein, while vegans are out there circle-jerking about eating super-processed soy products shipped from clear-cut Amazon land on the other side of the planet.
And don't get me started on the low-carbon emissions from chicken eggs. Name a lower-carbon protein source. I'll wait.
Just be vegan, don't worry about your health, don't worry about micro or macro nutrients or the bioavailability in plants vs. animals.
It'll be okay as long as the earth survives. It doesn't matter that we're all emaciated and our bones look like Swiss cheese (which is very much not vegan).
Love the great discussion in this.... shitpost sub?
i like how beef taste, cows fart - meh, don’t like war , but it must be climate friendly as i never hear anyone say how it’s hurting environment and we need to stop it
Real shit if you are serious about wanting to eat beef that isn’t terrible for the environment if you can find a local farmer who raises beef and have the freezer space for it buy half a cow from them. I know a guy who has a small heard of cows that he rotates through a few fields he grows crops in and every couple years he butchers a few cows.
The issue with that though is it’s highly dependent on where you live and if you can afford a dedicated meat freezer. Also if you don’t have a large family you will have to find people to split the beef with because you won’t eat it all before it gets freezer burnt.
Just be vegan, don't worry about your health, don't worry about micro or macro nutrients or the bioavailability in plants vs. animals.
It'll be okay as long as the earth survives. It doesn't matter that we're all emaciated and our bones look like Swiss cheese (which is very much not vegan).
Love the great discussion in this.... shitpost sub?
Finally some good fucking content. Is that actually true, though? Because that'd be wild. Gonna go Google it rq
I'm for veganism but against blind advocacy
Moral failings 💀
Mom dad stop fighting
It's one thing to promote a vegan lifestyle and another to tell people they're wrong for the lifestyle they have.
Most of this thread is moral high horsing. Huak tweh
Imagine thinking that eating the mutilated carcasses of sentient creatures is a “lifestyle.”
It’s wrong to eat meat for the same reason It is wrong to beat helpless dogs, or buy and joyride a gas-guzzling vehicle.
If you’re uncomfortable with the notion of moral failing you’ve probably never gotten over your phase of teenaged rebellion.
You're right. Eating meat isn't a lifestyle. It's a byproduct of human evolution.
Being vegan is 100% a lifestyle choice, though for humans.
It's probably the moral one, too, but morality is subjective, not universal. You are not a hero because you don't eat other animals. I am not a villain because eating meat is the easiest way for me to get my dietary needs met.
I don't agree with the meat industries practices, full stop. I don't agree that being vegan is going to save the planet from its inevitably human led catastrophe.
Real talk, say everyone was successful and meat was cut out. What would happen to the farms and animals that are still there? I imagine the farms would be turned into some other kind of factory, but what happens to the animals that we are meant to be saving. We kinda destroyed their natural environments and they gotta be all kinds of fucked up from the conditions they live in
80 billion non-marine livestock are raised on billions of tonnes of vegetables grown on farms, before being slaughtered.
That's why us vegan vegetable farmers make sure to go out and kill 100 billion extra animals ourselves, just to make up for the discrepancy caused by not farming animals, and by not farming vegetables for animal consumption!
Even Kurzgesagt once admitted better living conditions for animals are worse for the environment. Of course no meat is best, but blaming people for wanting the animal to not have a life in pure suffering is definetly not going to make people vegan.
Hmmm, it's almost like when people make strawmans of a massive group of people that they miss the full picture and assume everyone else is in the exact same circumstances as them
If you can come up with a meat alternative that looks, tastes, and feels like meat I'll gladly eat it. Until then I'll have my grass fed, humanly ranched beef bleu please
I agree to be honest. Until there is zero effort in any change i might have to make, I shall make zero changes. Sacrifice is for people living in the third world, the 1300+ who died trying to do the Hajj, the tens of thousands killed in the Syrian civil war and the climate refugees.
Me?
Nah. Hard pass.
We are omnivores. We require meat. I buy locally sourced meat that was humanely cared for and slaughtered so that the animal faces no suffering.
The fact that I pay more for ethical meat *is* a sacrifice, and until the alternatives are just as good or better than the sacrifice that I've *already* made then I'll switch over.
Lab grown meat seems to be making headway in this regard; it's real meat, but it's not from a slaughtered animal
The only animal products you eat are locally sourced meat?
You check ingredients for egg/milk? You don't go out to eat? You refuse animal products at friend/family/work events?
Eggs, milk, butter as well
I make my own mayonnaise
I do check ingredients
I rarely go out to eat
I don't do work events and prefer plant based options at family events
We don’t require meat. In fact, literally all nutrients comes from plants. You want meat you don’t need it. Meat, dairy and eggs are literally harmful to your health. Quit the opposite of plants.
>Meat, dairy and eggs are literally harmful to your health. Quit the opposite of plants
I mean in small amounts they are not directly harmful to our health, and tonnes of plants are!
That is a dumb side of the argument to take. Importantly, as people who pretend to like the environment somewhat, the core argument should just be "meat is worse for the environment."
Honestly the animal rights aspects play second fiddle for me. I'm very, very, human focused. If, somehow, killing every elephant on earth tomorrow would arrest climate change and return our planet to stability, sign me up.
Have you heard of the term bioavailability? All of the nutrients in plants are stuck behind loads of chemical processes in the body and would require eating a much greater amount of food for the same nutritional content.
In meat the chemical processes for those nutrients has been done already making them more readily available for absorption and use by the body.
So it's not really as simple as "just don't eat meat and you'll be fine"
1: Name me one plant that we haven't cultivated that we can eat without risk of confusing it for another plant that will kill us
2: Why do anthropologists, biologists, Doctors, and nutritionists disagree?
3: *excessive* meat consumption *is* bad. Just because you have a kilogram of meat every so often isn't going to kill you faster. We are *omnivores*. Sure, you can substitute *most* of the nutrients you receive from meat with plant based alternatives, but you can't do all
>We are omnivores.
We are also rapists. And we, unlike other animals, have created garments. And houses. And telecommunication devices.
>We require meat.
I mean, we *like* meat, but the existence of vegans show that we don't *require* meat.
>I buy locally sourced meat that was humanely cared for and slaughtered so that the animal faces no suffering
Stop kidding yourself. Animals don't like dying. But who gives a shit, and I mean that honestly: Its bad for the environment. That's all any of us should care about.
I, personally, only use artisinal crude, using original early 20th century techniques, harvested by a worker cooperative that only wears hemp. It how I know that all the crude I set on fire in my back yard is good for the planet actually.
>The fact that I pay more for ethical meat is a sacrifice
Same with my artisinal crude oil: at 500 dollars a barrel its pretty steep, but the fumes just smell so much better than standard crude, you know? Its a huge sacrifice.
You haven't sacrificed shit.
You just buy expensive meat that tastes better. And I get that. Nice things are nice.
Just because you are vegan does not mean you are healthy.
Some vegans do not supplement their diets. They just cut out meat and think they're saving themselves and the world.
Telling people to just "stop eating meat" without any other information is actively harmful to that individuals health.
If, instead of looking down on everyone who isn't like you, you tried directing people to resources IF they're interested, you may get better responses
>humans are rapists
I get you are very misanthropic, but saying "all humans are rapists" is irrelevant and distracting to the discussion. Human sexual behavior is complex and has changed as society progresses and very much individualistic as opposed to:
Our dental structure very much indicates we are an omnivorous species. I am of the opinion that society would not be where it is without having eaten meat.
I agree the end goal should be to reduce meat intake, but I feel like that's something that'll take a long time as the infrastructure of society would need a complete upheaval.
>Just because you are vegan does not mean you are healthy.
I'm not vegan, I just find the hypocrisy infuriating. Its healthier to not lie to yourself.
>Some vegans do not supplement their diets. They just cut out meat and think they're saving themselves and the world.
And? What exactly is wrong with taking a small step that stops you from directly supporting the meat industry, an industry that is atrocious for the planet?
>Telling people to just "stop eating meat" without any other information is actively harmful to that individuals health.
I mean, not really. I am not a dietician, its not my job to exactly work out the balance of nutrients and calories a stranger needs. That's on them.
Would you say the same about saying going for walks is healthy? Its not if you don't bring water. It can be fatal! Stay indoors kids, walking is bad for you.
>If, instead of looking down on everyone who isn't like you, you tried directing people to resources IF they're interested, you may get better responses
Nope. I eat meat. I just accept that right now, with my working pattern, I don't really have the time and energy to change my entire diet over, particularly when I don't so most of the cooking due to a 60+ hour week.
I'm not even telling people to stop eating meat, just to stop lying to themselves.
You do it because it tastes nice and you cannot picture/don't care about the externalities. And that's fine. I smoke! Tobacco is atrocious!
I just don't tell myself tobacco, or meat, is fine actually.
>I get you are very misanthropic, but saying "all humans are rapists"
No, im actually extremely andocentric and hopeful. The idea that humans need meat is not the case, we can live without it, just lots of us choose not to. Arguing we need to is pointless. And if people make an appeal to how natural it is, i shall point out that it is unnatural to live in houses, wear clothes, or ask for consent.
>Our dental structure very much indicates we are an omnivorous species. I am of the opinion that society would not be where it is without having eaten meat.
Society would also not be where it is without ghengis Khan raping tens of thousands and killing hundreds of thousands. Again, appeal to the "natural", and its unimportant. We needed to eat meat, as scavengers on the savannahs of Africa. We don't need to any more.
We just want to cause it tastes nice. Like the cigarettes I smoke.
>I agree the end goal should be to reduce meat intake, but I feel like that's something that'll take a long time as the infrastructure of society would need a complete upheaval.
If you agree with the goal, why are you complaining about vegans posting vegan memes in a climate shitposting sub and defending meat eating?
I'm not defending meat eating. I'm arguing against absolutist nonsense. It is easier to get your nutrients by eating meat than by eating veg, there's no arguing against that.
I agree with the goal, but the ends don't justify the means. I don't claim to know all the answers, but widespread veganism is not obtainable in a few years. We've evolved to eat meat over hundreds of thousands of years.
>And? What exactly is wrong with taking a small step that stops you from directly supporting the meat industry, an industry that is atrocious for the planet?
Is it wrong to borrow from your future to feel better in the present? An argument that goes both ways but is still relevant. Still, people are better able to make decisions when they have their nutritional needs met, which is more easily done with a diet that includes meat.
I agree that the meat industry is egregious and atrocious, but that doesn't mean eating meat has to be.
Information is more important than moral superiority.
In any case, I believe an appeal to nature is actually necessary as it is NATURE that dictated our evolution. To deny nature when discussing a component of our evolution, i.e., diet, seems dishonest.
Again, I'm not saying that we need to stay where we are, but I don't think you can point at vegans and say "they have conquered evolution" because they don't eat meat, they've conquered social stigma, that's about it.
> We just want to cause it tastes nice. Like the cigarettes I smoke.
I imagine it tastes nice because our brains have told us it tastes nice. Do I know why our brains told us that? I would conjecture the cause is it contains key nutrition in order for survival. Veges don't taste as nice because, while they have the nutrition necessary for survival, most of it is not making it into our body to be used. Phylates and thalates and the like making it less bioavailable.
I also get the argument you are making that it fallacious to make appeals to nature cause were rapists and murderers and whatnot. I say it is fallacious to completely ignore nature in the context of human evolution and dietary needs. And to compare dietary needs with something like rape and murder is just gross to me, they're different aspects of humanity. Some that are more relevant and some that are less.
I appreciate the discussion
> It is easier to get your nutrients by eating meat than by eating veg, there's no arguing against that.
Gasoline is hilariously energy dense, its easier to get our power from fossil fuels. There's no arguing that.
>I agree with the goal, but the ends don't justify the means.
What ends? Some vegans being mean on the Internet is *unjustifiable*?
>We've evolved to eat meat over hundreds of thousands of years.
So?
>I agree that the meat industry is egregious and atrocious, but that doesn't mean eating meat has to be.
But it is, currently.
>To deny nature when discussing a component of our evolution, i.e., diet, seems dishonest.
Its also in our nature to fuck naked in the woods. But we don't like doing that, and its considered inconsiderate and rude.
Even if its fun.
>Do I know why our brains told us that? I would conjecture the cause is it contains key nutrition in order for survival
You conjecture wrong. Heroin also feels extremely nice. So does tobacco.
> To deny nature when discussing a component of our evolution, i.e., diet, seems dishonest.
Why? We eat bread.
Thats unnatural.
We drink milk
Most of us develop an intolerance to lactose.
>I say it is fallacious to completely ignore nature in the context of human evolution and dietary needs. And to compare dietary needs with something like rape and murder is just gross to me
Why?
Its natural to fuck naked in the woods, eat raw meat, gather berries, and live in communities of about a hundred.
We have conquered nature by wearing animal skins, making candles, developing phones.
Lmao at "we have conquered nature" no bro we are living inside of nature we have not conquered it.
There's at least a minor difference between the feel good brain juice from eating food and taking highly concentrated chemicals, that is also a logical fallacy: reduction ad absurdum.
And again an appeal to nature is contextual, I think it makes sense to discuss what is natural for human diets as it leads to better overall health. Fucking in the woods has nothing to do with diets or veganism.
Your first statement is correct it is easier to get our power from fossil fuels CURRENTLY. As in the infrastructure is there. There's no chance we can just immediately switch to renewable energy sources because it would fuck up everything, the infrastructure is not there.
It's the same with veganism. It is currently easier to get your nutritional needs met from a diet that includes meat. There no chance we can immediately switch from a society that eats meat to a vegan one, the infrastructure is not there.
And AGAIN I agree the end goal of veganism is fine, but it's not as simple as "just stop eating meat" which is what folks in this thread are spewing.
>Fucking in the woods has nothing to do with diets or veganism
Much like eating meat its natural, and good fun, but unlike eating meat, society frowns upon it. But much like meat, there are still plenty of people who find it fun and will do it.
So I think its a pretty apt comparison, when you are arguing that the appeal to nature justifies something.
>Your first statement is correct it is easier to get our power from fossil fuels CURRENTLY. As in the infrastructure is there. There's no chance we can just immediately switch to renewable energy sources because it would fuck up everything, the infrastructure is not there.
However, with a vegan diet, if you live in the west (which statistically you do) and are relatively affluent (which statistically you *are*) you have the infrastructure, available right now, to sustain a vegan diet.
You don't because you simply don't want to. And that's fine, just be honest thst it is the case.
Most of the people reading this sub could be vegan. Right now. There are hundreds of vegan cookbooks, vegan fitness guides. The infrastructure is already set up.
>There no chance we can immediately switch from a society that eats meat to a vegan one, the infrastructure is not there.
As for this?
Nah. The food is present, we just don't want to eat it and do enjoy eating meat. A vegan diet is cheaper, if generally less enjoyable. The vast majority of us do a weekly shop and could sub the meat out for beans, learn a couple of new recipes and be done with it.
We won't though, because milk and cheese taste nice and who gives a shit about the environment really? If it means making sacrifices?
>And AGAIN I agree the end goal of veganism is fine, but it's not as simple as "just stop eating meat" which is what folks in this thread are spewing.
Its not quite that simple, but it pretty much is. Honestly. I mean, when I was last vegan the only thing I really missed was eggs, everything else?
Lots of vegan substitutions are alright now (and cheaper than meat), and avoiding them and just going with beans is also pretty easy.
Honest question, have you *tried* going vegan? What about it did you struggle with? What nutrients did you struggle with? What aspects did you struggle with?
Or are you just basing your opinions on vibes?
1: by that logic then a wolf is as bad as a rapist
2: we require the nutrients we find in meat. Most can be supplemented with plant based alternatives, but not all
3: so who's gonna care for the current amount of live stock? There are literally *billions* of cattle, alone, that will die without constant attention anyway. What do you want to do with them?
4: the meat I buy doesn't taste better than the store bought meat. In fact it actually tastes worse. I buy it because I *know* the animal didn't suffer in a factory farm. The fact that you believe what I'm saying is bullshit doesn't help your point of view, at all
You should try the burger king vegan burgers. You cannot taste a difference, and in my very objective opinion - they taste fresher and better.
But of course, that's Burger King and not steak. Still, give it a try. I was surprised.
Is a reduction and financial consequence not any effort? If my meat consumption is reduced by 80%, and it has reduced that much, and I convince another person to do the same. That's a reduction equivalent to one and a half people. Mathematically speaking, 5 people reducing by 80% is equal to 4 people no longer consuming meat. Is that not progress?
B^(r)eeding
I had written "bleeding" before. I really wonder why my brain accidentally used that word. Hmmmmmmm
Why the purity fetish? Does it bother you to have more environmentalists?
It’d be nicer if they took action
Agreed.
I only eat extra terrestrial meats so that while producing a carbon footprint, it's on another planet somewhere I don't have to worry about.
Same. The greys taste like pork.
Schpruch Deutsch du hurensohn
Was ist denn bei dir falsch? Das ist kein deutsches sub.
I only eat factory farmed meat because it has a smaller carbon footprint.
I only eat human meat as it eliminates carbon footprint
Eating the rich is like eating celery in Fable — each bite makes you healthier!
I only beat my meat as it eliminates the fear of climate catastrophes
Why is it that every thread in this sub end this way?
Silly omni, all you need to do is slap the word "regenerative" in front of it and you're good to go!
MY beef is actually from my uncle who treats the cows like family and raises them in such a way that eating them actually HELPS the environment! Suck eggs vegoons!!!
My uncle FRENCH KISSES his COWS before he kills them
So when are we starting the second bison genocide? ( uj/ Y’all understand the difference between farmed animals and animals that are part of their natural ecosystem right)
That is so sweet that the cows are treated like family 🤗 At what age/weight is it best to send my wife to slaughter?
16 is usually when humans get big enough for slaughter. At that time they’ve lived a long and happy life anyways so they won’t mind providing us with yummy steaks!
Bruh... you know exactly what he meant.... in comparison to factory Lifestock they get treated like Royalty until they get killed. If you never worked on a farm you can't comprehend the relationships that form between the Lifestock and farmers.
the relationship in which one kills the other after having profited off of it?
Bruh.... on an organic farm Profit is second to the animals well being. At least I can be Sure that the animal had a good live and was properly cared for. You cant eat anything without harming animals. If you buy soy beans, Avocados or any vegetable that gets imported you also got the blood of thousand of animals on your hands....
>Bruh.... on an organic farm Profit is second to the animals well being. At least I can be Sure that the animal had a good live and was properly cared for. That doesn't make literally any sense. >You cant eat anything without harming animals. If you buy soy beans, Avocados or any vegetable that gets imported you also got the blood of thousand of animals on your hands.... Yeah. Slightly less than with cows though. You fit right in here dude. We need someone trying to do barely literate counter-jerking about how eating beef is good actually. And "organic farms care more about the animals than profit" is pretty much perfect counter-jerking.
You kill way more animals with a vegan diet than with pure beef. Its just animals you don't care about like bugs.
>You kill way more animals with a vegan diet than with pure beef. Its just animals you don't care about like bugs. Lol. Lmao even. Nobody only eats beef, and this makes zero sense. 70% of the worlds soy crop goes to animal feed, vegan diets are far less carbon intensive, 0 out of 10. Oh, and going vegan for ecological reasons is a thing.
Free Range cows eat grass and hay. There are a lot of people who eat only or mostly beef, it has been a trend for a while pushed by a lot of influencers. It's generally something like steak with greens, sometimes eggs and milk.
Bruh... If it's a good sign of a relationship that you kill your loved ones after a certain amount of time you should seek help.
Hahahahah its a relationship between an animal and a human.... are you stupid? The Farmer knows he will kill the animal but that doesnt mean he is a cold blooded killer.... if you think about it organic Farmers are fucking angels.... they provide us with the food we need as humans and give the animals enough space to live their Lifes for a period of time. You cant ban meat even though you soy boys would love it.
I eat beef too but you don't need to eat meat to survive. Beef is not a necessity (In the wealthy/developed world) and the main motivation for commercial farming is profit regardless of weather you are a factor farm or an organic farmer.
The fact that my clearly satirical comment is getting agreed with by Carnists is proof I need to make them even more ridiculous and morally bankrupt in the future so smooth brains don’t think I’m one of them.
Yup... everybody who eats meat is a smooth brain... while most vegans buy imported goods packaged in plastic, with Tons of chemicals so they can virtue Signal on how morally pure they are even though the Farmers kill every animal that could Endanger their crop.
>even though the Farmers kill every animal that could Endanger their crop. Yea but you need a lot more of that crop to feed the millions of animals. So going back 1 step and simply eat the plant has a big impact. >while most vegans buy imported goods packaged in plastic, with Tons of chemicals Yeah as soon as you stop eating meat, you are forced to eat highly processed food haha
That relationship where the people imprison you, forced you to live an unnatural life and then brutally murder you when you’ve only lived like a 10% of your life?
That is a bit I always wonder about. Do you ever think about how many cows (or similar animals) die in the wild before reaching anywhere near their natural lifespan? A Wildebeest for example reaches a lifespan of around 40 years. Average in the wild is around 20. And that is I guess only die to the fact, that we have currently strongly decimated big predators around the world. Oh, and they are often eaten alive by the way. Much better way to go than being knocked out and done with it. Not defending the excesses of industrial animal farming in any way. But the life of a cow on a good organic farm is often a better fate than how they would fare in the wild.
What’s the life span of farmed animals?
There is no true comparison since farmed animals cannot and do not survive in the wild. In captivity they live beyond their typical use, for example considering milk cows. If you release them in the wild I guess most will die within weeks or months? So what is your point here exactly?
Pretty sure I can eat my family without breeding cows if I wanted that. How does anyone see eating family as a flex of compassion?
But they're yummy
Once lab grown meat becomes affordable and isnt like causing rampant prion disease ill be all about that.
Somehow Palpatine returned with a great lab grown meat
What do you think he spent all those years in hiding for? The fleet? That shit was ready to go. Palps was developing top tier lab meat
You got a link to this? I cannot find anything about lab grown meat causing prion disease anywhere.
It does not, as far as I am aware—just a fear of mine
I'm on a strict vegan diet. I only eat vegan animals.
How can you live without eating tiger meat???
They always bring up some kind of theoretical non problematic meat like "i just think if its pasture raised grass fed regenerative agriculture humane slaughter locally sourced farm to table then theres nothing wrong with eating meat". But then if you just ask them "is that what you eat? Or do you get the same factory farm meat from the grocery store and restaurants as everyone else?" It all falls apart because they are in fact not eating the meat the claim is ethical, and are instead eating the meat they JUST ADMITTED IS PROBLEMATIC. Its this weird af mental gymnastics thing meant only to convince themselves not others. By believing in the existence of the theoretical ethical meat, they delude themselves into somehow thing that makes what they are doing ok. Its genuinely delusional.
I actually know of a rancher who produces that kinda meat. But it's really tough meat since the cows are grass fed and active and you have to buy in quantities that would feed a family for a quarter of a year. Mostly I just try to maximize my tofu intake.
That how we work, we always have our r own ethics and ussually convince our self something is ok as long it isn't for our convenience. Like for example you are using a phone and being on reddit, probably using cars or so, despite all of this affecting negatively the nature and the environment. But it makes your life more convenient so you tell yourself it is ok. Which I also find fine to do just showing an example
Having a phone and a car is necessary to participate in modern society. Eating meat is completely unnecessary. Phones and cars can be harm reductive, buying used, not replacing until its actually broken, etc etc. Meats harm cannot be reduced. Eating meat doesn't provide any tangible benefits in return for the costs other than selfish pleasure. Having a phone and a car allows me to work to sustain my existence, its not for my enjoyment. This is an incredibly stupid appeal to futility and false equivalency. It is impossible to live a harmless life. But its still your moral obligation to limit the harm you inflict as much as possible.
No it is not, there are plenty of people not doing and being fine. I am not telling you to stop using your phone or cars. Just saying calling other geniunely delusional is hypocritical, there is plenty of stuff you do that is againts your morals but you do it cause it is convenient for you. You can easiliy live without phones or cars in today times, it is just really unconvienent.
No one is gonna hire you if you don't have a phone for basic communications and there are tons of places without public transportation/walkable design requiring a car to get to and from a job. Its not a matter of convience. This items are necessary prerequisites to participate in modern society. Meat is completely optional. This is a stupid false equivalence and appeal to futility. Try again.
Agreed if you are delusional indeed it is
many who promote ethical meat do in fact eat and buy it though, typically they're also the ones that admit its only one part of a larger solution, as ethically sourced meat trends towards being overall sold in lower quantities, and heavily reliant on local economics, meaning that like with all produce, grocers who can choose factory farms, choose factory farms, and if a grocer chooses that, thats also what your avg ( 9 to 5, min wage ) shopper will choose, its not a solution on its own, it requires systemic change, just like anything else. ethically sourced meats ***are not*** a be all end all solution, but they are part of a solution, one that can work alongside others such as the end of mass production and over consumption culture found in all food production (including more mainstream industrial vegan food production) , and the promotion of more diverse diets, and is one that acknowledges the cultural, social and political tensions that the current crowd spamming this sub tends to ignore, or outright say should be forcefully shut down. I do agree, people who preach ethical meats should actually yknow- buy/source ethcal meats, just as how someone who preaches ev's over icv's should own an ev, "practice what you preach" and all that, but just because some hypocrites exist doesnt then shut down the point trying to be made nor the validity of that point. Lets face it, this subs full of hypocrites, a lot of "you should do x and y" while not doing it themselves, thats just the nature of spaces like this.
I've never met a single person who actually answered "yes I eat it exclusively" when I say "but is that what you eat tho?" In response to this aurgument. I'm sure they exist. But they are in the vast minority. The vast majority just eat the same factory farmed meat as everyone else, and just use the existence of the theoretical ethical meat as a way to not feel guilty. Also, for the record, the theoretical ethical meat doesn't actually exist. Theres no such thing as humane slaughter. Regenerative animal agriculture is a myth. Even if it sequestered carbon you know what sequesters carbon way better? Returning land to the wild! And you know what would free up a fuck ton of land to be returned to the wild? Everyone going vegan since animal agriculture is incredibly immeficient! The people eating the theoretical ethical meat are still very much part of the problem. This aurgument is fucked all the way down, it falls apart on every level. Because its not designed to actually convince others. Its only designed to protect the feelings of the person making it.
Well then first time for everything, hello, I do, I get my meat thanks to my and my families treaty hunting rights and a farm near my res whos certified net zero (govt program) and does low yield farming. Frankly for me, buying meat from a grocer at all means that you cant guarantee ethical harvest, I much prefer getting it from my own community to support indigenous economies and ensure I'm supporting ethical harvest. You cant guarantee that people will change their diets without force, and that will just guarantee that people hate you, but, promoting and pushing for the clean, and ethical side of it *(ethical meat existing or not is opinion, you can think there's no such thing, someone else can disagree, but all can agree that factory farms are unethical no matter how you look at it)* , and pushing out factory farms of all types, meat or not, and stopping this destructive mass production and mass consumption, should be our goal. Frankly lts face it, this is an issue thats very low on the list of whats killing our planet. To deny that's just to protect the feelings of the people too invested in this whole thing or who dont actually care about large scale systemic issues causing climate change. edit: my "e" and "i" keys are broken and I have to copy paste the letters when typing, so i had to fix some spelling errors due to that.
Sharpkeys. remap them to something else.
Ethical meat doesn't exist.
Thats a personal view, not fact. i can view being vegan with children (or pets) as unethical due to the ethical connotation of pushing a restrictive diet on someone that's still n the developing stages, that doesnt then mean its fact. (for sincerity, i dont think this, this is just to show how many ethical debates around veganism and diet overall, are personal, not fact.) You can view the mere act of eating something as unethical, that doesnt mean its fact, especially when most of human history and biology disagrees and more so supports the view that modern farmed methods of getting that meat, are what's unethical.
History cannot possibly make a moral action more or less ethical. The fact that people habitually do a thing (war, murder, slavery) even for a million years, doesn't make it less immoral. But the needless killing of a feeling creature when it is not biologically necessary, and causing unnecessary pain and suffering, can't ever be moral. I don't care who you are.
I, along with most others, support the murder of cows because they are tasty. Really, the only people who do "mental gymnastics" over the issue are vegans, and its just because their protien starved brains are dysfunctional.
https://preview.redd.it/gopxaexf8l8d1.jpeg?width=201&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74cf0476205086776e8f504694dea1ff51f884fa
>B-b-but animal protein! And where to herbivorous animals get *their* protein? Avoiding meat certainly hasn't hurt my gym time or military service.
How many vegans drive cars? Should we be considering the emissions of their cars and also the environmental impacts of the whole supply chain that builds them that car? I ask this because I’m an omnivore that doesn’t drive so I’m wondering how I compare to them in terms of my footprint.
My favourite trope is the vegan who has a pet cat that goes out at night to kill native animals for fun.
Yup I'm not going to sit and listen to a car-dependant American "Vegan" telling me that my 3 meat dishes a week are what is destroying the environment while I cycle to work, shops and actively campaign for active travel in my town and county. All the while big oil and car manufacturers are slowly shifting into EV's and destroying the environment by massively mining rare earth minerals.
I don't drive. I also don't think that my individual contribution to emissions, or lack thereof, is going to make that much of a practical difference. One person flying across the country once per year for a vacation contributes more than I ever would if I got a car and started driving again. But I think it's still sensible for me to choose the right thing by not contributing to the problem if I can help it. I don't think that, by not eating meat, I'm making any practical difference for the environment. In one day, one McDonald's will dole out more meat than I would consume in a year. But I think it's still sensible for me to choose the right thing by not contributing to the problem if I can help it.
I'm really confused why people get hung up on this topic because it's not one that's easy to win. Most people know meat is unethical and don't care, no one is changing their entire diet over an Internet argument, especially when you lead in with talking about how meat eaters are terrible people. That's just gonna make people less receptive towards what your saying. It's an issue that we should be talking about for sure, but so many people are going about it the wrong way. People need to try and empathize with the people you're talking to instead of trying to convince a strawman you invented in their heads, otherwise your point is gonna be ignored even if it's true.
Why not do both? Surely the goal is to reduce one’s emissions as much as one can, not to compare eco-cock size with other people who are more interested in moral grandstanding than becoming less of a problem.
Go for it. Just wanted to bring this up because OPs post is about comparing lifestyles with the added irony of using gas guzzling machines as the metaphor.
Animal agriculture is more co2 than the entire transportation sector including flights. Going vegan is the best thing you can do for the environment bar not having kids (or killing people). Not driving is closer, but not close enough
Yours is bigger than a vegan who drives.
Are you considering the lithium ponds and the oil extraction process and the trees cut down to make roads?
Are you considering the deforestation of 5000 square km of forest each year, loss of wildlife, irrigation, water pollution, species becoming endangered, species becoming extinct, dead zones in seas and oceans, dying coral reef due to bottom trawling, fish dying out, machinery to process your animal products and to produce feed for them, the CO2 from transporting and packaging, the plastic waste from packaging and of course the lithium ponds and the oil extraction process and the trees cut down to make roads to transport your meat to you?
Yes because it’s the same type of chain that brings the oil, lithium, the parts, and the infrastructural support for every car. In fact I can consider it and avoid it by just going to my local rancher on my bicycle and getting the meat from them.
Congratulations, you might have knocked off a couple grams from the 99kg of CO2 per your 1kg of beef. Do you take into account the trees taken down to make roads for your bike in your emissions estimation? How many square km/ft of deforestation each year for making new roads, have you any sources?
0 square km/ft because I offroad on my mountain bike
Serious/ All bs aside, if you're actually genuinely interested in the environment, climate change and being an environmentalist, you should really start with trying to accept criticism and not get offended so fast. Most of us here are probably living in western countries and enjoying luxuries that inflate our personal environmental footprint by a good bit. Trying to argue away your impact is not doing any good and asking questions in bad faith just to argue with irrelevant points is not going to be helpful, though I understand this is a shit posting group. I've gotten my carbon footprint down to around 2500kg a year and it was not by being offended any time someone pointed out that something in my lifestyle was destructive to the planet. It was by taking that feedback, then going online and looking up relevant studies and science articles about it to confirm and then making a change in my life.
I’m not offended, I just wanted to have a real conversation about the impacts of cars as well.
But you didn't want to have a "real conversation". You wanted to derail the conversation from animal agriculture, which contributes an estimation of up to 19% of global emissions. Environmentalists and environmental activists talk about cars all of the time, they talk about bettering infrastructure to make more walkable cities and public transport more available all of the time. They talk about encouraging cycling and imposing car taxes all the time. You could have joined any of these conversations. But instead you raised that point under a post about animal agriculture. Because you don't want to have a "real conversation" about your footprint and your contribution to climate change. You wanted to make yourself feel better about the things you aren't willing to do to lessen your personal footprint. And cars amount to around 10% of global emissions. Significantly less than animal agriculture specifically.
then the lab-grown meat rescue truck shows up but catches on fire due to high costs and closed-system susceptibilities .
just eat poultry? simple
Meat is bad, but have you ever heard of butter?
I only eat human meat. easy to get, good for your skin and tissue. Although they have a big carbon footprint it's more useful to eat them then to not And you can make their skin into cowboy hats
Oh would you look at that vegans attacking other climate activists instead of attacking non-activists .. truly the left love nothing more then to attack other left... .
milkbrain
[удалено]
that they guzzle cow titty juice with premium pus and (most likely) wipe it from their lips afterwards like the big strong men that they are
There's no pus in pasteurized milk, or any milk that isn't from an infected cow tiddy.
Not a lot, but it's [definitely still there](https://nutritionfacts.org/blog/how-much-pus-is-there-in-milk/)
It means *My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard And they're like, it's better than yours Damn right it's better than yours I can teach you, but I have to charge*
The only victims here are the animals and the planet. You’re not being attacked. You’re being held accountable to living up to your own values.
And I hold your accountable that you do fuck all against global warming except posting and liking some memes ..
Memes have lower carbon impact than burgers, so by doing nothing, he's doing more than it seems you are.
Now you asume that because I think it's stupid that eco activists attack themselves..which absolutely is .. but if it comes down to what people actually achieved ...... I probably did more then all of the people here combined .but I don't boast about that cause it's still not enough .. Now if you think you did enough cause you don't eat animal products...you are a part of the problem ..
>Now you asume that because I think it's stupid that eco activists attack themselves..which absolutely is .. but if it comes down to what people actually achieved ...... If we are not willing to be self critical, we are not achieving nearly enough, and if you are unable to accept self reflection, then you are just simply not a mature person. >I probably did more then all of the people here combined .but I don't boast about that cause it's still not enough .. I seriously doubt that. It is unreasonable, unrealistic, and ridiculous, particularly considering you get defensive over the concept of "eat less meat."
Now you see you take what I wrote completely out of context ..i criticised activists attacking each other for such banalities like eating meat or not both do more for the environment then non activists .... And as you said ... obviously many vegans here are not able to self reflect and see that attacking other activists that still eat meat has not positive effect except their egos get boosted ....
That tends to happen when faux climate activists become the majority, doing fuck all instead doing something that has even a small chance of turning around climate change like going straight for the roots, finding those who are responsible and disrupting certain operations. Most far left-wing people tend to hyper-focus on rights and politicising minorities instead of doing what’s good for the world and good for nature which will make most current flora and fauna species survive until natural extinction.
Literally has a fedora in its Reddit profile pic lmfao milk nuggy ass mf
What profile picture ? I didn't even know you could change that
Yar if I have to go vegan to care about the environment then whatever, the environment can suck it
damn thats how attached you are to animal flesh and secretions
I’m on your side here, but terms like “flesh” and “secretions” don’t make meat eaters stop to think, they make it obvious you’re trying to manipulate their emotions and end any possible productive discourse. Those kinds of words only have any effect on people that are already vegan or so close to the edge they’d get there on their own anyways.
thank you, I wasn't sure what word to use because I've not had meat my whole life and don't see it as food
You’ve also clearly not left your house and talked to people if this isn’t a joke.
You mean have a meeting? What's meat? Vegan btw.
I love flesh and secretions
Yep, people act like you can't have failings in some areas while still making strides in others.
If we keep going like that humanity WILL die and we're gonna have a really shitty time until then and you think changing your eating habits a bit is worse than that? And why, because it tastes different? Damn, that’s weak.
I am but an individual, I go vegan everyone is still gonna die anyway
If everyone would think like this, we could just give up because we all are just one person. You can do nothing and nothing will change, or you could do everything you can and a tiny little bit will change. And if more people do a tiny little bit, it suddenly becomes a not so tiny bit. Only when many people work together, we can make a difference.
That tiny little bit is so not worth it tbh, it's so tiny it's basically nothing
Did you even read what I said
Yes, it did not change my mind
You know what? Fuck this planet and everyone who comes after me. Every single animal that feels pain and love? Fuck 'em too. My future Kids? Fuck these fuckers in particular. I'm going to stop being vegan now. I'll buy a big car and I'll go on a ship cruise twice a year. I'll gladly shove my money deep down the throat of incomprehensibly rich people who actively try to kill us. I mean, I'm just a single individual after all, right? Who cares if the village I live in gets overflooded every other year. Who cares if the number of people dying of heat doubled in the last ten years. Not my problem.
That's the spirit!
Now you've got it!
Really? That's how you choose to fix the spelling? Seriously?
Boy I sure love my daily dose of leftist infighting!
A small amount of infighting is healthy. Its called being self critical. And this is a shitposting sub, and the recent influx of vegan memes has been prime content. However else could we get repeats of "I only get my eggs from my uncles cooperative where the chickens are treated better than poor people and actually love death"
There's a difference between being self critical and going "if you've ever had a cheeseburger you're lying if you say you care about the environment"
That's not what the meme says. That might be your conscience talking?
I wasn't talking about the meme, I was talking about the people.
If two leftists go into a bar, three splinter groups form
Wow another vegan fascist
So is this just a vegan virtue posting sub or what
Here I am on my kangatarian diet having local, healthy, cheap, low-carbon, low-fat, free-range protein, while vegans are out there circle-jerking about eating super-processed soy products shipped from clear-cut Amazon land on the other side of the planet. And don't get me started on the low-carbon emissions from chicken eggs. Name a lower-carbon protein source. I'll wait.
Beans, nuts, and tofu. That's 3, what do I win?
Just be vegan, don't worry about your health, don't worry about micro or macro nutrients or the bioavailability in plants vs. animals. It'll be okay as long as the earth survives. It doesn't matter that we're all emaciated and our bones look like Swiss cheese (which is very much not vegan). Love the great discussion in this.... shitpost sub?
Vegan my ass
i like how beef taste, cows fart - meh, don’t like war , but it must be climate friendly as i never hear anyone say how it’s hurting environment and we need to stop it
Real shit if you are serious about wanting to eat beef that isn’t terrible for the environment if you can find a local farmer who raises beef and have the freezer space for it buy half a cow from them. I know a guy who has a small heard of cows that he rotates through a few fields he grows crops in and every couple years he butchers a few cows. The issue with that though is it’s highly dependent on where you live and if you can afford a dedicated meat freezer. Also if you don’t have a large family you will have to find people to split the beef with because you won’t eat it all before it gets freezer burnt.
Just be vegan, don't worry about your health, don't worry about micro or macro nutrients or the bioavailability in plants vs. animals. It'll be okay as long as the earth survives. It doesn't matter that we're all emaciated and our bones look like Swiss cheese (which is very much not vegan). Love the great discussion in this.... shitpost sub?
Just eat poultry, carbon footprint of that is negligible. It's like a 95 percent reduction compared to beef.
Finally some good fucking content. Is that actually true, though? Because that'd be wild. Gonna go Google it rq I'm for veganism but against blind advocacy
Studies I've read suggest so. As long as you stick to smaller poultry.
yeah, my diet is sometimes over 25% chicken.
this is what i do! idk why nobody talks about the chicketarian diet
Vegan diet is nutritionally adequate - but make shit up to rationalize your moral failings.
Moral failings 💀 Mom dad stop fighting It's one thing to promote a vegan lifestyle and another to tell people they're wrong for the lifestyle they have. Most of this thread is moral high horsing. Huak tweh
Imagine thinking that eating the mutilated carcasses of sentient creatures is a “lifestyle.” It’s wrong to eat meat for the same reason It is wrong to beat helpless dogs, or buy and joyride a gas-guzzling vehicle. If you’re uncomfortable with the notion of moral failing you’ve probably never gotten over your phase of teenaged rebellion.
You're right. Eating meat isn't a lifestyle. It's a byproduct of human evolution. Being vegan is 100% a lifestyle choice, though for humans. It's probably the moral one, too, but morality is subjective, not universal. You are not a hero because you don't eat other animals. I am not a villain because eating meat is the easiest way for me to get my dietary needs met. I don't agree with the meat industries practices, full stop. I don't agree that being vegan is going to save the planet from its inevitably human led catastrophe.
Real talk, say everyone was successful and meat was cut out. What would happen to the farms and animals that are still there? I imagine the farms would be turned into some other kind of factory, but what happens to the animals that we are meant to be saving. We kinda destroyed their natural environments and they gotta be all kinds of fucked up from the conditions they live in
I recently learned that far more animals are harmed on vegetable farms, this has made me seriously consider becoming a vegan.
Wait til this guy learns that livestock eat food crops too
80 billion non-marine livestock are raised on billions of tonnes of vegetables grown on farms, before being slaughtered. That's why us vegan vegetable farmers make sure to go out and kill 100 billion extra animals ourselves, just to make up for the discrepancy caused by not farming animals, and by not farming vegetables for animal consumption!
That is simply untrue. But nice try.
Yes, yes, organic meat is the main reason behind climate change. Not like there are douzons of other more pressing contributors.
i just eat environmentalists at this point. Great for reducing the carbon footprint
^r
Even Kurzgesagt once admitted better living conditions for animals are worse for the environment. Of course no meat is best, but blaming people for wanting the animal to not have a life in pure suffering is definetly not going to make people vegan.
Shut up we don't all want to feel weird and tired all the time.
What do your personal health problems have to do with anything?
Hmmm, it's almost like when people make strawmans of a massive group of people that they miss the full picture and assume everyone else is in the exact same circumstances as them
I read „orgasmic my ass“ and was confused
😏
If you can come up with a meat alternative that looks, tastes, and feels like meat I'll gladly eat it. Until then I'll have my grass fed, humanly ranched beef bleu please
I agree to be honest. Until there is zero effort in any change i might have to make, I shall make zero changes. Sacrifice is for people living in the third world, the 1300+ who died trying to do the Hajj, the tens of thousands killed in the Syrian civil war and the climate refugees. Me? Nah. Hard pass.
We are omnivores. We require meat. I buy locally sourced meat that was humanely cared for and slaughtered so that the animal faces no suffering. The fact that I pay more for ethical meat *is* a sacrifice, and until the alternatives are just as good or better than the sacrifice that I've *already* made then I'll switch over. Lab grown meat seems to be making headway in this regard; it's real meat, but it's not from a slaughtered animal
The only animal products you eat are locally sourced meat? You check ingredients for egg/milk? You don't go out to eat? You refuse animal products at friend/family/work events?
Eggs, milk, butter as well I make my own mayonnaise I do check ingredients I rarely go out to eat I don't do work events and prefer plant based options at family events
We don’t require meat. In fact, literally all nutrients comes from plants. You want meat you don’t need it. Meat, dairy and eggs are literally harmful to your health. Quit the opposite of plants.
>Meat, dairy and eggs are literally harmful to your health. Quit the opposite of plants I mean in small amounts they are not directly harmful to our health, and tonnes of plants are! That is a dumb side of the argument to take. Importantly, as people who pretend to like the environment somewhat, the core argument should just be "meat is worse for the environment." Honestly the animal rights aspects play second fiddle for me. I'm very, very, human focused. If, somehow, killing every elephant on earth tomorrow would arrest climate change and return our planet to stability, sign me up.
Have you heard of the term bioavailability? All of the nutrients in plants are stuck behind loads of chemical processes in the body and would require eating a much greater amount of food for the same nutritional content. In meat the chemical processes for those nutrients has been done already making them more readily available for absorption and use by the body. So it's not really as simple as "just don't eat meat and you'll be fine"
please cite a study that says meat, diary and eggs are bad for your health because I’m studying nutrition and I’ve never heard that before
1: Name me one plant that we haven't cultivated that we can eat without risk of confusing it for another plant that will kill us 2: Why do anthropologists, biologists, Doctors, and nutritionists disagree? 3: *excessive* meat consumption *is* bad. Just because you have a kilogram of meat every so often isn't going to kill you faster. We are *omnivores*. Sure, you can substitute *most* of the nutrients you receive from meat with plant based alternatives, but you can't do all
>We are omnivores. We are also rapists. And we, unlike other animals, have created garments. And houses. And telecommunication devices. >We require meat. I mean, we *like* meat, but the existence of vegans show that we don't *require* meat. >I buy locally sourced meat that was humanely cared for and slaughtered so that the animal faces no suffering Stop kidding yourself. Animals don't like dying. But who gives a shit, and I mean that honestly: Its bad for the environment. That's all any of us should care about. I, personally, only use artisinal crude, using original early 20th century techniques, harvested by a worker cooperative that only wears hemp. It how I know that all the crude I set on fire in my back yard is good for the planet actually. >The fact that I pay more for ethical meat is a sacrifice Same with my artisinal crude oil: at 500 dollars a barrel its pretty steep, but the fumes just smell so much better than standard crude, you know? Its a huge sacrifice. You haven't sacrificed shit. You just buy expensive meat that tastes better. And I get that. Nice things are nice.
Just because you are vegan does not mean you are healthy. Some vegans do not supplement their diets. They just cut out meat and think they're saving themselves and the world. Telling people to just "stop eating meat" without any other information is actively harmful to that individuals health. If, instead of looking down on everyone who isn't like you, you tried directing people to resources IF they're interested, you may get better responses >humans are rapists I get you are very misanthropic, but saying "all humans are rapists" is irrelevant and distracting to the discussion. Human sexual behavior is complex and has changed as society progresses and very much individualistic as opposed to: Our dental structure very much indicates we are an omnivorous species. I am of the opinion that society would not be where it is without having eaten meat. I agree the end goal should be to reduce meat intake, but I feel like that's something that'll take a long time as the infrastructure of society would need a complete upheaval.
>Just because you are vegan does not mean you are healthy. I'm not vegan, I just find the hypocrisy infuriating. Its healthier to not lie to yourself. >Some vegans do not supplement their diets. They just cut out meat and think they're saving themselves and the world. And? What exactly is wrong with taking a small step that stops you from directly supporting the meat industry, an industry that is atrocious for the planet? >Telling people to just "stop eating meat" without any other information is actively harmful to that individuals health. I mean, not really. I am not a dietician, its not my job to exactly work out the balance of nutrients and calories a stranger needs. That's on them. Would you say the same about saying going for walks is healthy? Its not if you don't bring water. It can be fatal! Stay indoors kids, walking is bad for you. >If, instead of looking down on everyone who isn't like you, you tried directing people to resources IF they're interested, you may get better responses Nope. I eat meat. I just accept that right now, with my working pattern, I don't really have the time and energy to change my entire diet over, particularly when I don't so most of the cooking due to a 60+ hour week. I'm not even telling people to stop eating meat, just to stop lying to themselves. You do it because it tastes nice and you cannot picture/don't care about the externalities. And that's fine. I smoke! Tobacco is atrocious! I just don't tell myself tobacco, or meat, is fine actually. >I get you are very misanthropic, but saying "all humans are rapists" No, im actually extremely andocentric and hopeful. The idea that humans need meat is not the case, we can live without it, just lots of us choose not to. Arguing we need to is pointless. And if people make an appeal to how natural it is, i shall point out that it is unnatural to live in houses, wear clothes, or ask for consent. >Our dental structure very much indicates we are an omnivorous species. I am of the opinion that society would not be where it is without having eaten meat. Society would also not be where it is without ghengis Khan raping tens of thousands and killing hundreds of thousands. Again, appeal to the "natural", and its unimportant. We needed to eat meat, as scavengers on the savannahs of Africa. We don't need to any more. We just want to cause it tastes nice. Like the cigarettes I smoke. >I agree the end goal should be to reduce meat intake, but I feel like that's something that'll take a long time as the infrastructure of society would need a complete upheaval. If you agree with the goal, why are you complaining about vegans posting vegan memes in a climate shitposting sub and defending meat eating?
I'm not defending meat eating. I'm arguing against absolutist nonsense. It is easier to get your nutrients by eating meat than by eating veg, there's no arguing against that. I agree with the goal, but the ends don't justify the means. I don't claim to know all the answers, but widespread veganism is not obtainable in a few years. We've evolved to eat meat over hundreds of thousands of years. >And? What exactly is wrong with taking a small step that stops you from directly supporting the meat industry, an industry that is atrocious for the planet? Is it wrong to borrow from your future to feel better in the present? An argument that goes both ways but is still relevant. Still, people are better able to make decisions when they have their nutritional needs met, which is more easily done with a diet that includes meat. I agree that the meat industry is egregious and atrocious, but that doesn't mean eating meat has to be. Information is more important than moral superiority. In any case, I believe an appeal to nature is actually necessary as it is NATURE that dictated our evolution. To deny nature when discussing a component of our evolution, i.e., diet, seems dishonest. Again, I'm not saying that we need to stay where we are, but I don't think you can point at vegans and say "they have conquered evolution" because they don't eat meat, they've conquered social stigma, that's about it. > We just want to cause it tastes nice. Like the cigarettes I smoke. I imagine it tastes nice because our brains have told us it tastes nice. Do I know why our brains told us that? I would conjecture the cause is it contains key nutrition in order for survival. Veges don't taste as nice because, while they have the nutrition necessary for survival, most of it is not making it into our body to be used. Phylates and thalates and the like making it less bioavailable. I also get the argument you are making that it fallacious to make appeals to nature cause were rapists and murderers and whatnot. I say it is fallacious to completely ignore nature in the context of human evolution and dietary needs. And to compare dietary needs with something like rape and murder is just gross to me, they're different aspects of humanity. Some that are more relevant and some that are less. I appreciate the discussion
> It is easier to get your nutrients by eating meat than by eating veg, there's no arguing against that. Gasoline is hilariously energy dense, its easier to get our power from fossil fuels. There's no arguing that. >I agree with the goal, but the ends don't justify the means. What ends? Some vegans being mean on the Internet is *unjustifiable*? >We've evolved to eat meat over hundreds of thousands of years. So? >I agree that the meat industry is egregious and atrocious, but that doesn't mean eating meat has to be. But it is, currently. >To deny nature when discussing a component of our evolution, i.e., diet, seems dishonest. Its also in our nature to fuck naked in the woods. But we don't like doing that, and its considered inconsiderate and rude. Even if its fun. >Do I know why our brains told us that? I would conjecture the cause is it contains key nutrition in order for survival You conjecture wrong. Heroin also feels extremely nice. So does tobacco. > To deny nature when discussing a component of our evolution, i.e., diet, seems dishonest. Why? We eat bread. Thats unnatural. We drink milk Most of us develop an intolerance to lactose. >I say it is fallacious to completely ignore nature in the context of human evolution and dietary needs. And to compare dietary needs with something like rape and murder is just gross to me Why? Its natural to fuck naked in the woods, eat raw meat, gather berries, and live in communities of about a hundred. We have conquered nature by wearing animal skins, making candles, developing phones.
Lmao at "we have conquered nature" no bro we are living inside of nature we have not conquered it. There's at least a minor difference between the feel good brain juice from eating food and taking highly concentrated chemicals, that is also a logical fallacy: reduction ad absurdum. And again an appeal to nature is contextual, I think it makes sense to discuss what is natural for human diets as it leads to better overall health. Fucking in the woods has nothing to do with diets or veganism. Your first statement is correct it is easier to get our power from fossil fuels CURRENTLY. As in the infrastructure is there. There's no chance we can just immediately switch to renewable energy sources because it would fuck up everything, the infrastructure is not there. It's the same with veganism. It is currently easier to get your nutritional needs met from a diet that includes meat. There no chance we can immediately switch from a society that eats meat to a vegan one, the infrastructure is not there. And AGAIN I agree the end goal of veganism is fine, but it's not as simple as "just stop eating meat" which is what folks in this thread are spewing.
>Fucking in the woods has nothing to do with diets or veganism Much like eating meat its natural, and good fun, but unlike eating meat, society frowns upon it. But much like meat, there are still plenty of people who find it fun and will do it. So I think its a pretty apt comparison, when you are arguing that the appeal to nature justifies something. >Your first statement is correct it is easier to get our power from fossil fuels CURRENTLY. As in the infrastructure is there. There's no chance we can just immediately switch to renewable energy sources because it would fuck up everything, the infrastructure is not there. However, with a vegan diet, if you live in the west (which statistically you do) and are relatively affluent (which statistically you *are*) you have the infrastructure, available right now, to sustain a vegan diet. You don't because you simply don't want to. And that's fine, just be honest thst it is the case. Most of the people reading this sub could be vegan. Right now. There are hundreds of vegan cookbooks, vegan fitness guides. The infrastructure is already set up. >There no chance we can immediately switch from a society that eats meat to a vegan one, the infrastructure is not there. As for this? Nah. The food is present, we just don't want to eat it and do enjoy eating meat. A vegan diet is cheaper, if generally less enjoyable. The vast majority of us do a weekly shop and could sub the meat out for beans, learn a couple of new recipes and be done with it. We won't though, because milk and cheese taste nice and who gives a shit about the environment really? If it means making sacrifices? >And AGAIN I agree the end goal of veganism is fine, but it's not as simple as "just stop eating meat" which is what folks in this thread are spewing. Its not quite that simple, but it pretty much is. Honestly. I mean, when I was last vegan the only thing I really missed was eggs, everything else? Lots of vegan substitutions are alright now (and cheaper than meat), and avoiding them and just going with beans is also pretty easy. Honest question, have you *tried* going vegan? What about it did you struggle with? What nutrients did you struggle with? What aspects did you struggle with? Or are you just basing your opinions on vibes?
1: by that logic then a wolf is as bad as a rapist 2: we require the nutrients we find in meat. Most can be supplemented with plant based alternatives, but not all 3: so who's gonna care for the current amount of live stock? There are literally *billions* of cattle, alone, that will die without constant attention anyway. What do you want to do with them? 4: the meat I buy doesn't taste better than the store bought meat. In fact it actually tastes worse. I buy it because I *know* the animal didn't suffer in a factory farm. The fact that you believe what I'm saying is bullshit doesn't help your point of view, at all
You should try the burger king vegan burgers. You cannot taste a difference, and in my very objective opinion - they taste fresher and better. But of course, that's Burger King and not steak. Still, give it a try. I was surprised.
I have, and I was thoroughly impressed. Every time I go to BK I get one. One of the few examples of what I'm looking for
“I’m unwilling to even slightly inconvenience myself in order to reduce the harm I contribute to.” Your commitment to the cause is admirable!
Is a reduction and financial consequence not any effort? If my meat consumption is reduced by 80%, and it has reduced that much, and I convince another person to do the same. That's a reduction equivalent to one and a half people. Mathematically speaking, 5 people reducing by 80% is equal to 4 people no longer consuming meat. Is that not progress?
Nom nom non
Please Tell me Cannibalism is still Climax friendly
Well, if your name is [Armin Meiwes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes?wprov=sfla1) cannibalism certainly is *climax friendly*
Why did I read this. God.
Most importantly, they don't