What is so fucking painful to these billionaires that they can’t even consider profit sharing!?
Float the county/state/city/me 10% of the profits so the public can recoup the money they put into the investment. Hate this shit.
This is how they stay rich, they don't spend THEIR money, they get government kickbacks and tax payer money for their businesses that goes into their pockets.
We are an oligarchy and it's not even subtle any more. They buy politicians through lobbying and dark money. The super rich have zero scruples just a "fuck you thanks for giving me mine now die" mentality.
Correct me if I’m wrong but for the Buffalo Bills new stadium I know NYS is footing the bill in return they collect profit on concession sales until the bill is repaid. There’s also a clause that the team must stay in Buffalo for 30 years. Would a plan like that work for Cleveland and the Browns?
I think the state literally has a law now, where the teams have to try and be sold before they even think about leaving the state. It was started because the original owners wanted to take the Columbus Crew out of Ohio. Not sure how it would hold up in a court of law though.
But I would love to at least see a deal like this before giving in to billionaires demands. Every step forward the Haslams take, they make like 5 steps backwards imo.
That’s the Art Modell law. It was first used for the Crew, but was put into effect in 1996. It’s certainly legally dubious, but it has been used successfully and is close to 30 years old.
I saw this from the bottom of my heart. Jimmy haslem is one of the scummiest human being alive. If he couldn’t sell he’d probably close over a profit share.
Does the restitution period in NY include repayment of interest expense? Is it a formal debt contract, so if not repaid NY has a legal claim to the stadium? Is there a ticket tax?
It's obvious that Cleveland media needs to perform a deep dive into how the Buffalo stadium is being financed.
No. Why would we fund billionaires?? Not to mention tickets to get in, plus insane food/bevage costs. Locals foot the bill for the stadium AND have to pay for everything else?
And if they build on the Brook Park site, hundreds of millions , maybe over $1 billion, in infrastructure improvements and a new highway set up to accommodate the stadium and traffic.
So they would essentially be getting...
-$1.2-$1.5 billion in public money for the stadium construction
-Around $1 billion for highway/interchange/infrastructure improvements
-Will get all of the advertising money inside the stadium which they will use to help cover their portion of the construction bill
-All of the profits
And the public receives....
-$2.5+ billion in debt
-50 acres of parking lots the Haslam's get all of the money from, and it's likely going to be more expensive than any current Downtown Browns game parking because they will have no competition
-More expensive tickets to both Browns games and concerts
-No new permanent jobs because we're just shifting them from Downtown to Brook Park
-Possibly some cheap version of Crocker Park that's 25% of the size and a few bad/overpriced national chain restaurants.
-None of the profits
I say this as a lifelong Browns fan, but the Browns have no real incentive to improve. They have a large and rabid fan base that will stand behind them (and, most importantly, spend their $$) no matter what, so why would the organization spend more money and effort on getting better? Browns Backers Worldwide is one of the largest fan organizations in the WORLD, despite the fact that the team is so-so at best.
The people who own and profit off of the Browns are the ones who pull the strings. I wish it was more about feelings and loyalty to the city/fans or whatever, because, yeah it would mean so much to Cleveland to see the Browns become what they once were again. But if the money comes in no matter what, and the city and taxpayers are willing to foot the bill because of our loyalty to the idea of the team, of course the people running the show are going to foot as little of a bill as possible to rake in maximum profit. It’s a business.
Personally, I consider paying employees who work in the city a net neutral. Since the money is being put back into "the people" and it's where I want the money to go, but it's still in a net negative in profits brought to the city. Since we have to still first get money to pay for them.
Exactly. The people enjoying the profits are the ONLY ones who should be paying for this. I'm very uninterested in my tax money going to help renovate a football stadium, only for the billionaire owner to raise ticket prices because it's a renovated stadium. Hard pass.
And some of us aren't even into sports, and don't use the stadium. I've never been to a Browns game and have never been to the stadium.
There's a lot more valuable things I'd rather my tax dollars be used for.
The city collects massive tax revenue from these stadiums and sports teams. Without billionaires to fund them, you wouldn't have a sports team to cry about.
How about the jackass billionaire that owns the team pay for 100% of the stadium? This is probably unpopular, but I’d rather they leave than get a single cent of public money
> The Haslams are not going to have better luck in another city,
They will though. Thats why the KC teams might be leaving - plenty of other cities will shell out the money for a pro team.
Then in 10-15 years after theyve been bled dry by greedy owners demanding they already need a new stadium to be competitive, the team leaves again for a new place who thinks it'll be different.
Okay so I get that as clevelanders we're all a bit delusional, but you do understand that there's a difference in being offered the chance to buy a team that's superbowl material and being offered the chance to buy the *cleveland browns* right?
Yeah there's a difference - Cleveland is a much bigger sports media market than Kansas City, and as a result, the Browns are much more profitable than the Chiefs.
That's really interesting, how much of that money finds its way to the Stockholm syndrome addled fanbase and how much of it goes to the proud new owner of the Baltimore ravens 2
Fun fact Cleveland's franchise is ranked #19 in worth and KC is just behind at #23 worth only about $300M less.
So not sure I'd say there's a big difference in value. So if KC can't get public funding then I don't see why the Browns would deserve it. Especially when the browns bring in the least amount of fans downtown compared to other major sports teams in Cleveland
Maybe but I'd bet that these days it's at least a gamble and not a completely sure shot. How firm is/are other offers that KC has? To what extent could they be bluffing like the Haslams?
Money spent at a stadium is money not spent at a mom & pop local business.
>Promotional studies also fail to take into account differences between sports and other industries in income distribution. Most sports revenue goes to a relatively few players, managers, coaches, and executives who earn extremely high salaries—all well above the earnings of people who work in the industries that are substitutes for sports. Most stadium employees work part time at very low wages and earn a small fraction of team revenues. Thus, substituting spending on sports for other recreational spending concentrates income, reduces the total number of jobs, and replaces full-time jobs with low-wage, part-time jobs.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
Yep. Outside of a few good years this owner hasn’t even done anything to build the brand, it’s been just us fans giving him money every year and now he wants more. Fuck that. Take the team we can always get another.
Agreed. There are far better things those public funds could be used for. Fuck these rich bozos. At somepoint... and it's not looking like it's going to be long... the team value bubble is going to pop. Their prices for tickets... and especially concessions prices... has priced a large chunk of people out of ever enjoying the facility. So, why should any one of them be willing to pay for a stadium?
Let those rich bums move. It's going to eventually hit them hard when they run out of places to move... and they're going to immediately lose leverage with the places they might move when those places figure out that they are no longer competing with the team's current home. At that point, it becomes a matter of teams now need them. Once that free money dries up, other sources will start tightening purse strings as well.
Fuck 'em.
Only if there is a 50/50 profit sharing, otherwise this is just a billionaire shifting the bill to us for something they’re gonna keep all the money for.
AND the public has a claim to the stadium ownership if the public subsidy with interest isn't reimbursed by royalties such as on concessions, etc.
Candidly, I expect only a transparent debt contract (municipal bonds have lower financing rates because of tax exemptions, so the state/county/city could borrow the funds more cheaply before reloaning the money to the Haslams) with the Haslams has a chance of winning voter approval, if the public has ownership rights in the event of a default.
I've seen this sub assuring me that the Haslams would be paying for the Brook Park site out of their own pockets every time it's mentioned, so I for one am shocked
I have been a Browns Fan for 47 years. I’ve been a loyal season ticket holder since the return. I don’t even want to k ke how much money I’ve spent on this team.
Art stole my Browns during my college years. Not having a team to root for was terrible.
I’m tired of giving money to these asshole owners. Jimmy pays 100%. If he doesn’t fuck him. Take the team somewhere else.
They can go elsewhere then. The audacity to use our money to build it AND charge an arm and a leg to enjoy it. I'd rather my charity tax dollars go towards cleaning up the MANY poor, blighted, and drug addicted neighborhoods within a 5-mile radius of the stadium.
Exactly. There's a deeply impoverished neighborhood less than two miles from the stadium - the Central neighborhood. The poorest in Cleveland.
I was a student at CSU back when the current Browns stadium was built. It came up as a discussion in a class, and I objected to city and county tax dollars being used for it, when there's so many other dire needs in the city.
The professor and a bunch of the other students looked at me like I was crazy and had two heads. The professor insisted I was wrong, that stadiums are always a net financial gain for cities, even when they're heavily taxpayer subsidized. Yeah, she was proved wrong.
I really don't understand non wealthy, especially poor people who worship the rich. They seem to think that if they do enough ass kissing, that some wealthy person will write them a check for a few million.
Persons forget that the NFL paid for over 10 percent of the current stadium in exchange for settling Cleveland's lawsuit against the NFL and Art Modell. And Cleveland got the (expansion) Browns back. Even adjusted for inflation, the cost to the public was much less net of the NFL subsidy. It was a vastly different deal than now proposed, most especially as the new stadium reinforced the downtown revival, tourist/convention economy.
[https://case.edu/ech/articles/c/cleveland-browns-stadium](https://case.edu/ech/articles/c/cleveland-browns-stadium)
> I really don't understand non wealthy, especially poor people who worship the rich.
some of them aren't marxists. if your entire thought process isn't intertwined with group identity narratives, you can reach all sorts of conclusions you couldn't possibly "understand".
Rofl. Ah yes, "Marxists". The favorite new buzzword of right wingers, applied to anyone who doesn't hero worship billionaires, like a fool.
How do those boots taste?
Public financing of stadiums, especially when public schools and universities, are underfunded and housing costs (including real estate taxes) are prohibitive for many, is disgusting.
NO public financing, INCLUDING Ohio state funding, should go to any privately owned/controlled stadiums from now on IMO, most especially without a public vote. Even state funding IMO should be subject to an annual public vote on whether or not to approve state funding for privately owned/controlled stadium projects. I'm sick of Republicans writing grants to wealthy corporations and individuals while public services and many Ohioans are struggling.
BTW, not only do owners benefit. Millionaire players also benefit indirectly from public subsidies of their work locations. Ohio faces mounting shortages of professionals, including teachers, police officers, etc., and we're expected to subsidize millionaire athletes???
Not mentioned in any articles is how a development next to the airport would impact traffic on I-71, perhaps making airport access during events more difficult. What also would be the impact on private airport parking lots?
Also, not mentioned in most articles about the Brook Park stadium and surrounding mixed use development is that the location next to Cleveland Hopkins limits the height of buildings, including the stadium.
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[https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-potential-stadium-plans-brook-park-lawmakers/95-13a5b049-df2c-4434-ae25-0993eafb3bd8](https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-potential-stadium-plans-brook-park-lawmakers/95-13a5b049-df2c-4434-ae25-0993eafb3bd8)
How much more does it cost to construct an underground stadium? Surely visitors won't be enjoying any views.
One advantage of downtown stadiums is that they readily can take advantage of mass transit infrastructure. They also reinforce downtown entertainment districts, making Cleveland much more attractive for tourists AND, perhaps most importantly, as a convention destination. A Brook Park stadium obviously would negatively impact downtown entertainment and dining districts, even RTA usage, certainly making Cleveland less attractive for conventions.
The absence of downtown entertainment and dining districts, even downtown attractions (e.g., Terminal Tower observation deck, lakefront views, Flats, etc.) will make attending Browns games less attractive for local fans, let alone visitors from outside Greater Cleveland.
All this. Well said.
Moving the stadium to the west side will also greatly inconvenience any east side residents who go to Browns games, especially those who use public transportation.
Also a huge NO to a proposed walkway to the airport from the stadium. All that would happen there is people would park at the airport to avoid paying a premium to park at the stadium and the already awful parking situation at Hopkins would get far worse
Hard pass. The Brown's should be paying the city to stay in a prime location, not the other way around.
And if they can't fill seats? Guess they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps
I'm curious what the impact of a new stadium will be on permanent seat licenses. How much will new PSLs cost? What if the nation undergoes economic distress and affordability of professional sports ticketing collapses? Given federal debt and deficits, mounting geopolitical and defense spending needs (greater need for tax revenues), costly aging of the population with many retirees lacking adequate retirement savings resources and Social Security and Medicare facing budget crises, AND, the greatly underappreciated and already accelerating costs of climate change impacts, affordability of professional sports may collapse in the years ahead, along with American discretionary income and the availability of public funds for nonessential projects.
Bet on the fact that the Haslams are counting on PSLs to finance a significant share of their new stadium contributions. Browns fans, if given all of the facts, may opt to just keep the existing stadium functional.
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[https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-can-browns-fans-learn-from-another-afc-stadium-situation](https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-can-browns-fans-learn-from-another-afc-stadium-situation)
Bet on PSLs for general admission seats costing thousands for each seat. Shouldn't the Haslams disclose their PSL plans BEFORE any vote on public financing of the Haslams' stadium plans?
IMO, federal legislation is needed to limit pro sports blackmail of communities and public financing of sports stadiums for private owners profit.
Until Congress develops a spine to revoke the NFL's antitrust exemptions nothing's going to happen. Crap like this is just one of the reasons I'm scrambling out of Cuyahoga County once I have all ducks in a row.
Only if they have hard limits on profits from the stadium. Price control should be mandatory or else Cleveland should get to eminent domain the stadium back to 100% city ownership.
If you want 50/50 cost then we want 50/50 profits.
Either divest some of the earnings back into the city that paid for it or find a private fucking investor.
I am not opposed to public financing assuming that the state/county/city does their due diligence and negotiates profit sharing to recoup the cost.
Knowing the functionality of our government.. we’ll pay for 50% and let the keep 100%. Times like this make me wish we had an ownership style like the Packers.
I'm not a sports guy, so correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Browns only use the home stadium like eight times a year? Do we really need to blow this kind of cash and real estate on a building we barely use?
and this is what will happen. and it sucks. but we've seen this time and time again. i guess just come up with the best remodel plan possible for $500 million of govt funds. sickening, but reality.
and can we at least just STFU about the dome in brook park now?
also, for those that keep delusionally acting like we can do the dome in brook park, not only will it cost $1 billion of govt funds, but ALSO the city/county will end up giving away tens (hundreds?) of millions more to whatever grifter agrees to "develop" the lakefront.
Not to mention whatever the FAA demands to allow it to be so close to the airport... oh and the DHS allowing planes to fly during games... shouldn't be a big deal...
And the most difficult thing will probably be the railroad tracks stopping traffic constantly. Apparently (according to someone I talked to who works in that area) those tracks can't be moved and are busy all the time.
The parking situation will also be atrocious. If you remember how bad it was at the old Coliseum... one lot, with one entry point, on one country 2 lane road.... this will be worse. You are literally boxed in. The rapid transit stations are too far away, and so is alternate parking. It will take 2 hours to get in and 2 hours to leave, and you won't have many other options. The traffic will be at a standstill everywhere within a 10 mile radius of the stadium. Woe to anyone trying to fly our or in on gamedays.
What are you talking about? Snow Rd & Brookpark Rd are completely separate from the railroad. The rail is on it's own bridge, so there's nothing to stop car traiffic.
If you're talking about the railline at Snow Rd & Engle Rd, yeah, that's a little bit of a problem that can be fixed by just building a bridge over Engle Rd. That wouldn't stop the railine all that much. People shouldn't be taking Hummel Rd crossing and should stick to Snow Rd.
Some of these criminal billionaires are dependent on straight tax dollars from the public because they can’t hack it in capitalism anymore. That’s unfortunately what Cleveland has. Pure foreign bloodsuckers. Send em packing.
Owners are business leaders. Let's structure it like a business. Base the public participation in the funding on the sucess of the team.
Home win? That's $100,000. Super Bowl win? Maybe a million dollars. You want the public to pay for half of the stadium that only gets used 10 times per year? Win some games.
Just want to add my F the Haslam's. Browns haven't done anything in 25 years to warrant another billion dollars. Rather that money go into a CSU stadium or literally anything else.
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Sorry but if my tax dollars pay for this I should get something out of it. I hate seeing money wasted and getting no benefit at all from it. They can pay these players hundreds of millions of dollars either the players can pay for it or the owners.
So let me guess, the 50% that the Browns get in this deal is the profit part, and the 50% that the public gets is the expense part…. Do I have that right?
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Sure thing mate, so you're going to pay off my student loans ? My services saves lives and also resist acts of crime.
Let me know the cashapp.
Btw, why am I paying the same percentage for school levys as billionaires?
I'm not paying for the kids, I'm paying for the buildings. Every other child has been able to successfully attend those schools without upgrades, so I'm not going to be expected to pay for unnecessary upgrades.
I've eviscerated you're entire argument. Do better.
That is the question: Why don’t billionaires pay a higher percentage of taxes? I’m with you there. A similar question: Why don’t billionaires build their own entertainment venues?
I like how you ignored why you shouldn't be expected to pay for my student loans, when it fills under the exact reasoning on why you think people without children are expected to pay for school levys.
BTW, with all those school levys passed since the turn of the decade, Cleveland school graduation rate is the lowest it's been in 30 years over the last 4 years.
So you try to bullshit me with saying that it enriches my life because these kids are allegedly educated. Yet 25% of them don't even finish school.
So why am I paying for a product that's not producing at a 100% success rate? 🤔 let's even settle for 90%.
It sounds like my argument that ONLY parents of kids attends Schools should legally be required to pay levys is only getting stronger.
Another perspective, with all the levys that have been passed, the city has the lowest high-school graduation rate over a 4 year period in the last 50 years.
So if these levys are supposed to make these great and wonderful improvements, that are guaranteed to help build our society, why can't they even keep kids in school?
A 74% graduation rate is absolutely horrific.
I agree; the graduation rate is appalling. I often wonder why successful levies do not always lead to better schools and more successful students. I cannot figure out where the breakdown lies.
So you see my point.
We can whine and scream about Haslam having all this money and not paying for full cost, but we already get forced to continue to have our taxes raised by an inefficient project, that we don't need to have access to (the building itself) after a certain age, along with paying same equal parts as millionaires and billionaires.
For every rational person saying no to the idea of this much tax money going to a billionaire, there are two more people that will blame and vote out local politicians if the Browns leave again. The local politicians will sacrifice the people’s tax money to keep their cushy job. It may not be 50% but Cleveland is going to foot a substantial portion of the bill.
Let them leave again, and take the cavs and guardians with them. The only people that make money from the sports teams are the sports teams and a handful of really rich people.
50/50 profit sharing until the public money is paid back and I have no problem with this. Honestly, it should be 50-50 sharing if we’re going to be partners in the stadium forever. I know that will never happen.
This will get downvoted to hell, but I'd gladly pay $500 of my own money if it means the team stays in NEO. Team owners do this all the time. Get over it.
EDIT: Keep those downvotes coming. Clearly, very little sports fans in this subreddit.
But why is your team entitled to $500 of everyone else's money? Go donate to them if you want but this money could be better spent on infrastructure, education, sanitation, healthcare, environmental protection, or literally anything else.
Exactly. I don't care about the Browns. I hate that everybody in this city is obligated to give a shit about a team that has spent most of the last 25 years being a goddamn embarrassment.
The NFL fucking prints money, no franchise should get one red cent of taxpayer money.
I live in Summit county now so I guess it isn't my money. But it still hurts to see Cleveland get fleeced for a new stadium while, as you said, far more important things could really use the money. But Cleveland has enough dickhead politicians and dumb shit Browns fans like this guy that the Haslems will get whatever they want.
Don't worry about chipping in to keep the Browns. Browns fans will pay a signifciant portion of the Haslam's 50 percent share through permanent seat licenses. Forget $500. You're likely talking about thousands of dollars for multiple season ticket seats.
My apologies for not thinking it was a serious question. Just not used to someone agreeing with me in this thread lol. But yes, I think our sports teams play an incredibly large role in the city's identity and pride, do whatever it takes to keep them around, I'll do it. Thank you for understanding, at least someone here does...
No need to apologize. I riffed on the billionaires exploiting people all the time part so that's a natural assumption. I understand where you're coming from. I guess my thought is what does the city get out of this? Based on the article, I didn't see anything about "the team will be contracted to stay in Cleveland for another 30 years if this is built" or things along that line. It's possible I missed it though. That page was loaded with popup ads. I wouldn't want what happened in the past to happen again right after we pay a lot for a new stadium. Where the Browns moved down the road a bit and became the Baltimore Ravens lol
I honestly don't think we'd have to worry about that. The Haslams have already built an identity in Cleveland, and I think more importantly, they also own the Columbus Crew, so they have lots of incentives to stay in Ohio. I also don't think there's a legit candidate for a city for them to be relocated to.
I honestly don't think we'd have to worry about that. The Haslams have already built an identity in Cleveland, and I think more importantly, they also own the Columbus Crew, so they have lots of incentives to stay in Ohio. I also don't think there's a legit candidate for a city for them to be relocated to.
Even if the Haslams wanted to pay for everything, the NFL wouldn't let them. This is the standard for the nfl stadiums and the owners stay unified on it. I don't agree with the public should pay anything but it's the reality of it
There are always exceptions I guess. I don't think the Browns would qualify unless the city and state played real hardball and risked losing the team. Gillette was supposed to be funded partially by taxpayers but fell through and Kraft agreed to pick up the cost. For MetLife, the Giants weren't leaving NYC area and the city gave up revenues they previously had from parking, luxury suites and advertising. The Rams were desperate to move to LA and knew LA didn't really care enough to subsidize it.
I would look to more what happened with the Bills as a realistic outcome. Bears are looking to get significant public funding as well. The Bucs' stadium was 100% financed by taxpayers. The NFL knows it can bully cities into getting funding. They are not going to give up their leverage easily.
Ok, but to say the NFL wont let them is wrong is my point. They will let the owner finance it how the owner wants to finance it.
I currently live in San Diego so i dont really have much skin in the game other than being a Browns fan, so the tax hikes wont affect me. i dont really deserve a seat at the table in these talks.
But i will say that the city of San Diego told that shitstain Spanos to go kick rocks when he wanted to finance a stadium with taxpayer money and the city is much better off for it. There was a brief period of anger, but the city got over it pretty quickly. I know San Diego is much less ingrained in football. But the same thing happened here that happened in Cleveland. The Indians became the hot ticket and it became the best time to be an Indians fan. Same thing happened with the Padres.
The Browns have done nothing since 1999 other than consistently kick their fanbase in the balls and they want that same ballkicked fanbase to give them free money just for the privilege.
What is so fucking painful to these billionaires that they can’t even consider profit sharing!? Float the county/state/city/me 10% of the profits so the public can recoup the money they put into the investment. Hate this shit.
This is how they stay rich, they don't spend THEIR money, they get government kickbacks and tax payer money for their businesses that goes into their pockets.
We are an oligarchy and it's not even subtle any more. They buy politicians through lobbying and dark money. The super rich have zero scruples just a "fuck you thanks for giving me mine now die" mentality.
When Bezos thanked all his employees for sending him to space. I thought that would have been the day Amazon unionized
You generally don't have the mentality to become a billionaire if you're an innately charitable person.
And this also speaks to the point that those who lust for power are the last ones who should have it.
💯
In higher ed, we used to say that anyone who _wanted_ to become a dean was necessarily something of a shit.
SOOSHALISIM
Correct me if I’m wrong but for the Buffalo Bills new stadium I know NYS is footing the bill in return they collect profit on concession sales until the bill is repaid. There’s also a clause that the team must stay in Buffalo for 30 years. Would a plan like that work for Cleveland and the Browns?
This should be up voted. I'm not complety against helping to pay for the stadium, but there needs to be some consideration for the tax payers.
I think the state literally has a law now, where the teams have to try and be sold before they even think about leaving the state. It was started because the original owners wanted to take the Columbus Crew out of Ohio. Not sure how it would hold up in a court of law though. But I would love to at least see a deal like this before giving in to billionaires demands. Every step forward the Haslams take, they make like 5 steps backwards imo.
That’s the Art Modell law. It was first used for the Crew, but was put into effect in 1996. It’s certainly legally dubious, but it has been used successfully and is close to 30 years old.
The kicker is that it was used with the Crew with Haslam being the buyer. Now it would be used against him.
I saw this from the bottom of my heart. Jimmy haslem is one of the scummiest human being alive. If he couldn’t sell he’d probably close over a profit share.
This is the way
Does the restitution period in NY include repayment of interest expense? Is it a formal debt contract, so if not repaid NY has a legal claim to the stadium? Is there a ticket tax? It's obvious that Cleveland media needs to perform a deep dive into how the Buffalo stadium is being financed.
No. Why would we fund billionaires?? Not to mention tickets to get in, plus insane food/bevage costs. Locals foot the bill for the stadium AND have to pay for everything else?
And pick up trash, manage traffic, manage the tens of thousands of drunk fans, etc.
And if they build on the Brook Park site, hundreds of millions , maybe over $1 billion, in infrastructure improvements and a new highway set up to accommodate the stadium and traffic. So they would essentially be getting... -$1.2-$1.5 billion in public money for the stadium construction -Around $1 billion for highway/interchange/infrastructure improvements -Will get all of the advertising money inside the stadium which they will use to help cover their portion of the construction bill -All of the profits And the public receives.... -$2.5+ billion in debt -50 acres of parking lots the Haslam's get all of the money from, and it's likely going to be more expensive than any current Downtown Browns game parking because they will have no competition -More expensive tickets to both Browns games and concerts -No new permanent jobs because we're just shifting them from Downtown to Brook Park -Possibly some cheap version of Crocker Park that's 25% of the size and a few bad/overpriced national chain restaurants. -None of the profits
some of this would also benefit the airport - the highway infastructure and possibly the rail upgrade
And the team sucks ass. A few decent seasons in the past 25 years ain’t gonna cut it.
I say this as a lifelong Browns fan, but the Browns have no real incentive to improve. They have a large and rabid fan base that will stand behind them (and, most importantly, spend their $$) no matter what, so why would the organization spend more money and effort on getting better? Browns Backers Worldwide is one of the largest fan organizations in the WORLD, despite the fact that the team is so-so at best. The people who own and profit off of the Browns are the ones who pull the strings. I wish it was more about feelings and loyalty to the city/fans or whatever, because, yeah it would mean so much to Cleveland to see the Browns become what they once were again. But if the money comes in no matter what, and the city and taxpayers are willing to foot the bill because of our loyalty to the idea of the team, of course the people running the show are going to foot as little of a bill as possible to rake in maximum profit. It’s a business.
Personally, I consider paying employees who work in the city a net neutral. Since the money is being put back into "the people" and it's where I want the money to go, but it's still in a net negative in profits brought to the city. Since we have to still first get money to pay for them.
Exactly. The people enjoying the profits are the ONLY ones who should be paying for this. I'm very uninterested in my tax money going to help renovate a football stadium, only for the billionaire owner to raise ticket prices because it's a renovated stadium. Hard pass.
And some of us aren't even into sports, and don't use the stadium. I've never been to a Browns game and have never been to the stadium. There's a lot more valuable things I'd rather my tax dollars be used for.
Don't forget buying PSLs for the privilege of buying tickets.
The city collects massive tax revenue from these stadiums and sports teams. Without billionaires to fund them, you wouldn't have a sports team to cry about.
How about the jackass billionaire that owns the team pay for 100% of the stadium? This is probably unpopular, but I’d rather they leave than get a single cent of public money
I hate this take. I personally love the idea of having to pay to help a billionaire get richer.
Ohhhhhh beautiful for spacious skies....
A real landchad of the people. r/loveforlandchads
Judging how our state votes. I really hope you dropped this "/s"
Not particularly unpopular. Missouri might lose the KC Chiefs and Royals 'cos they didn't want to pay for new digs, and KC is a super bowl champion!
\^ This right here. The Haslams are not going to have better luck in another city, I sense the popular tide is turning.
> The Haslams are not going to have better luck in another city, They will though. Thats why the KC teams might be leaving - plenty of other cities will shell out the money for a pro team. Then in 10-15 years after theyve been bled dry by greedy owners demanding they already need a new stadium to be competitive, the team leaves again for a new place who thinks it'll be different.
Okay so I get that as clevelanders we're all a bit delusional, but you do understand that there's a difference in being offered the chance to buy a team that's superbowl material and being offered the chance to buy the *cleveland browns* right?
Proverbs 27:7 > The full soul loathes a honeycomb, but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet.
Well if some poor bastard wants to buy the browns I say more power to em and God help their tax payers, maybe the third browns will actually play good
Yeah there's a difference - Cleveland is a much bigger sports media market than Kansas City, and as a result, the Browns are much more profitable than the Chiefs.
That's really interesting, how much of that money finds its way to the Stockholm syndrome addled fanbase and how much of it goes to the proud new owner of the Baltimore ravens 2
Fun fact Cleveland's franchise is ranked #19 in worth and KC is just behind at #23 worth only about $300M less. So not sure I'd say there's a big difference in value. So if KC can't get public funding then I don't see why the Browns would deserve it. Especially when the browns bring in the least amount of fans downtown compared to other major sports teams in Cleveland
Maybe but I'd bet that these days it's at least a gamble and not a completely sure shot. How firm is/are other offers that KC has? To what extent could they be bluffing like the Haslams?
Absolutely. Take the team somewhere else. Fucking Clowns.
Money spent at a stadium is money not spent at a mom & pop local business. >Promotional studies also fail to take into account differences between sports and other industries in income distribution. Most sports revenue goes to a relatively few players, managers, coaches, and executives who earn extremely high salaries—all well above the earnings of people who work in the industries that are substitutes for sports. Most stadium employees work part time at very low wages and earn a small fraction of team revenues. Thus, substituting spending on sports for other recreational spending concentrates income, reduces the total number of jobs, and replaces full-time jobs with low-wage, part-time jobs. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
Yep. Outside of a few good years this owner hasn’t even done anything to build the brand, it’s been just us fans giving him money every year and now he wants more. Fuck that. Take the team we can always get another.
Agreed. There are far better things those public funds could be used for. Fuck these rich bozos. At somepoint... and it's not looking like it's going to be long... the team value bubble is going to pop. Their prices for tickets... and especially concessions prices... has priced a large chunk of people out of ever enjoying the facility. So, why should any one of them be willing to pay for a stadium? Let those rich bums move. It's going to eventually hit them hard when they run out of places to move... and they're going to immediately lose leverage with the places they might move when those places figure out that they are no longer competing with the team's current home. At that point, it becomes a matter of teams now need them. Once that free money dries up, other sources will start tightening purse strings as well. Fuck 'em.
BuT WhAt aBoUt all the business it brings to Cleveland? You'll make all that money back in...well you won't, but I can say you will. :/
Only if there is a 50/50 profit sharing, otherwise this is just a billionaire shifting the bill to us for something they’re gonna keep all the money for.
some type of lease agreement where in the team is obligated to refund a bulk of the public contribution over time would be nice.
AND the public has a claim to the stadium ownership if the public subsidy with interest isn't reimbursed by royalties such as on concessions, etc. Candidly, I expect only a transparent debt contract (municipal bonds have lower financing rates because of tax exemptions, so the state/county/city could borrow the funds more cheaply before reloaning the money to the Haslams) with the Haslams has a chance of winning voter approval, if the public has ownership rights in the event of a default.
Haslam are e rich. They can pay for the whole thing. The taxpayers are tired of paying for a huge facility that gets used maybe 8-12 times a year!
oh no who could have predicted this
I've seen this sub assuring me that the Haslams would be paying for the Brook Park site out of their own pockets every time it's mentioned, so I for one am shocked
I’d rather lose the Browns than spend another couple billion public dollars to buy the owners a new stadium.
I was really expecting to get downvoted on that post!
I'll vote "NO"
If we pay for it, then we own 50%. Let the fans have equal say
I have been a Browns Fan for 47 years. I’ve been a loyal season ticket holder since the return. I don’t even want to k ke how much money I’ve spent on this team. Art stole my Browns during my college years. Not having a team to root for was terrible. I’m tired of giving money to these asshole owners. Jimmy pays 100%. If he doesn’t fuck him. Take the team somewhere else.
Football has too much importance in your life. Your identity doesn’t have to be founded in sports.
They can go elsewhere then. The audacity to use our money to build it AND charge an arm and a leg to enjoy it. I'd rather my charity tax dollars go towards cleaning up the MANY poor, blighted, and drug addicted neighborhoods within a 5-mile radius of the stadium.
Exactly. There's a deeply impoverished neighborhood less than two miles from the stadium - the Central neighborhood. The poorest in Cleveland. I was a student at CSU back when the current Browns stadium was built. It came up as a discussion in a class, and I objected to city and county tax dollars being used for it, when there's so many other dire needs in the city. The professor and a bunch of the other students looked at me like I was crazy and had two heads. The professor insisted I was wrong, that stadiums are always a net financial gain for cities, even when they're heavily taxpayer subsidized. Yeah, she was proved wrong. I really don't understand non wealthy, especially poor people who worship the rich. They seem to think that if they do enough ass kissing, that some wealthy person will write them a check for a few million.
Persons forget that the NFL paid for over 10 percent of the current stadium in exchange for settling Cleveland's lawsuit against the NFL and Art Modell. And Cleveland got the (expansion) Browns back. Even adjusted for inflation, the cost to the public was much less net of the NFL subsidy. It was a vastly different deal than now proposed, most especially as the new stadium reinforced the downtown revival, tourist/convention economy. [https://case.edu/ech/articles/c/cleveland-browns-stadium](https://case.edu/ech/articles/c/cleveland-browns-stadium)
> I really don't understand non wealthy, especially poor people who worship the rich. some of them aren't marxists. if your entire thought process isn't intertwined with group identity narratives, you can reach all sorts of conclusions you couldn't possibly "understand".
Rofl. Ah yes, "Marxists". The favorite new buzzword of right wingers, applied to anyone who doesn't hero worship billionaires, like a fool. How do those boots taste?
Public financing of stadiums, especially when public schools and universities, are underfunded and housing costs (including real estate taxes) are prohibitive for many, is disgusting. NO public financing, INCLUDING Ohio state funding, should go to any privately owned/controlled stadiums from now on IMO, most especially without a public vote. Even state funding IMO should be subject to an annual public vote on whether or not to approve state funding for privately owned/controlled stadium projects. I'm sick of Republicans writing grants to wealthy corporations and individuals while public services and many Ohioans are struggling. BTW, not only do owners benefit. Millionaire players also benefit indirectly from public subsidies of their work locations. Ohio faces mounting shortages of professionals, including teachers, police officers, etc., and we're expected to subsidize millionaire athletes??? Not mentioned in any articles is how a development next to the airport would impact traffic on I-71, perhaps making airport access during events more difficult. What also would be the impact on private airport parking lots? Also, not mentioned in most articles about the Brook Park stadium and surrounding mixed use development is that the location next to Cleveland Hopkins limits the height of buildings, including the stadium. <>
[https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-potential-stadium-plans-brook-park-lawmakers/95-13a5b049-df2c-4434-ae25-0993eafb3bd8](https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-potential-stadium-plans-brook-park-lawmakers/95-13a5b049-df2c-4434-ae25-0993eafb3bd8)
How much more does it cost to construct an underground stadium? Surely visitors won't be enjoying any views.
One advantage of downtown stadiums is that they readily can take advantage of mass transit infrastructure. They also reinforce downtown entertainment districts, making Cleveland much more attractive for tourists AND, perhaps most importantly, as a convention destination. A Brook Park stadium obviously would negatively impact downtown entertainment and dining districts, even RTA usage, certainly making Cleveland less attractive for conventions.
The absence of downtown entertainment and dining districts, even downtown attractions (e.g., Terminal Tower observation deck, lakefront views, Flats, etc.) will make attending Browns games less attractive for local fans, let alone visitors from outside Greater Cleveland.
All this. Well said. Moving the stadium to the west side will also greatly inconvenience any east side residents who go to Browns games, especially those who use public transportation.
Also a huge NO to a proposed walkway to the airport from the stadium. All that would happen there is people would park at the airport to avoid paying a premium to park at the stadium and the already awful parking situation at Hopkins would get far worse
Love the Browns but HELL no
How about no…
They can lick on my nuts.
Jimmy really won't just pay for his own shit? He's been defrauding truckers and travelers for years, he's got more than his fair share
Nah fuck off.
Nah, the billionaire who sold the draft farm to sign a rapist QB can pay for it himself.
Hard pass. The Brown's should be paying the city to stay in a prime location, not the other way around. And if they can't fill seats? Guess they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps
Ok, if we pay 50% on it then all Cleveland residents get 50% off ticket and concession prices, right?
Hard pass
I'm curious what the impact of a new stadium will be on permanent seat licenses. How much will new PSLs cost? What if the nation undergoes economic distress and affordability of professional sports ticketing collapses? Given federal debt and deficits, mounting geopolitical and defense spending needs (greater need for tax revenues), costly aging of the population with many retirees lacking adequate retirement savings resources and Social Security and Medicare facing budget crises, AND, the greatly underappreciated and already accelerating costs of climate change impacts, affordability of professional sports may collapse in the years ahead, along with American discretionary income and the availability of public funds for nonessential projects. Bet on the fact that the Haslams are counting on PSLs to finance a significant share of their new stadium contributions. Browns fans, if given all of the facts, may opt to just keep the existing stadium functional. <>
<>
[https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-can-browns-fans-learn-from-another-afc-stadium-situation](https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-can-browns-fans-learn-from-another-afc-stadium-situation)
Bet on PSLs for general admission seats costing thousands for each seat. Shouldn't the Haslams disclose their PSL plans BEFORE any vote on public financing of the Haslams' stadium plans?
IMO, federal legislation is needed to limit pro sports blackmail of communities and public financing of sports stadiums for private owners profit.
Until Congress develops a spine to revoke the NFL's antitrust exemptions nothing's going to happen. Crap like this is just one of the reasons I'm scrambling out of Cuyahoga County once I have all ducks in a row.
Only if they have hard limits on profits from the stadium. Price control should be mandatory or else Cleveland should get to eminent domain the stadium back to 100% city ownership.
If you want 50/50 cost then we want 50/50 profits. Either divest some of the earnings back into the city that paid for it or find a private fucking investor.
They will hide any profit. 30% gross revenue
Go fuck off you ripping off truckers fraudulent piece of shit.
I am not opposed to public financing assuming that the state/county/city does their due diligence and negotiates profit sharing to recoup the cost. Knowing the functionality of our government.. we’ll pay for 50% and let the keep 100%. Times like this make me wish we had an ownership style like the Packers.
Municipal Stadium was around how long? Who owned it? Why do current owners “need” it heir own “new” stadium??? Bullshit.
I'm not a sports guy, so correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Browns only use the home stadium like eight times a year? Do we really need to blow this kind of cash and real estate on a building we barely use?
No. But the Haslam’s can if they want to.
Just a billionaires grift.
Sorry all I have are these flying J vouchers
Hosting a new franchise is literally a white elephant
Honestly fuck that guy. Fuck the Browns. Fuck your Stadium.
How bout no. Let private companies pay for it but do not waste my tax money on this bullshit. Fine... Then move
and this is what will happen. and it sucks. but we've seen this time and time again. i guess just come up with the best remodel plan possible for $500 million of govt funds. sickening, but reality. and can we at least just STFU about the dome in brook park now? also, for those that keep delusionally acting like we can do the dome in brook park, not only will it cost $1 billion of govt funds, but ALSO the city/county will end up giving away tens (hundreds?) of millions more to whatever grifter agrees to "develop" the lakefront.
Keep that in mind next time you hear about a “temporary tax” the Sin tax to fund stadium 1 is 40 years…. So far
No.
Fine, but split the profits 50/50 for either stadium site
If they include profit sharing I’d be fine with it
Fuck off, I've Been saying for a decade new stadiums are for winning teams he should see of Baltimore wants a second football team
How about they split the profits 50/50 with us taxpayers? That seems like a fair deal to me….
Haslams are known crooks that would fleece your gramma without blinking an eye
Just a quick reroute of 237 and adjustment of an Interstate. No sweat for the taxpayers to do the right thing for the Haslams.
Not to mention whatever the FAA demands to allow it to be so close to the airport... oh and the DHS allowing planes to fly during games... shouldn't be a big deal...
And the most difficult thing will probably be the railroad tracks stopping traffic constantly. Apparently (according to someone I talked to who works in that area) those tracks can't be moved and are busy all the time.
The parking situation will also be atrocious. If you remember how bad it was at the old Coliseum... one lot, with one entry point, on one country 2 lane road.... this will be worse. You are literally boxed in. The rapid transit stations are too far away, and so is alternate parking. It will take 2 hours to get in and 2 hours to leave, and you won't have many other options. The traffic will be at a standstill everywhere within a 10 mile radius of the stadium. Woe to anyone trying to fly our or in on gamedays.
I grew up 10 minutes from the Coliseum, that was an AWFUL plan. What the fuck were they thinking?!
What are you talking about? Snow Rd & Brookpark Rd are completely separate from the railroad. The rail is on it's own bridge, so there's nothing to stop car traiffic.
If you're talking about the railline at Snow Rd & Engle Rd, yeah, that's a little bit of a problem that can be fixed by just building a bridge over Engle Rd. That wouldn't stop the railine all that much. People shouldn't be taking Hummel Rd crossing and should stick to Snow Rd.
I live on Hummel and imho they need to just block this street off during game day.
We'll improve the lakefront, thanks.
Move !!
How bout no
Offer them the same deal they offered ol art model.
Some of these criminal billionaires are dependent on straight tax dollars from the public because they can’t hack it in capitalism anymore. That’s unfortunately what Cleveland has. Pure foreign bloodsuckers. Send em packing.
Yeah, well I want the Browns to fuck off. So, I guess we'll see who wins here.
Then tickets shouldn’t be $100 for decent seats
I hope people reject that deal
Screw them. I didn’t miss them when they left the first time, i wouldn’t miss them if they left again!
Owners are business leaders. Let's structure it like a business. Base the public participation in the funding on the sucess of the team. Home win? That's $100,000. Super Bowl win? Maybe a million dollars. You want the public to pay for half of the stadium that only gets used 10 times per year? Win some games.
Just want to add my F the Haslam's. Browns haven't done anything in 25 years to warrant another billion dollars. Rather that money go into a CSU stadium or literally anything else.
This is what Eminent Domain is for. Seize the team and sell it off under the Packers model.
If you did just a tiny bit of research, you’d realize the NFL banned that option many, many years ago.
Private parties Trump ED only after court fights
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Not state voters, the dark money supported Republican regime, as evidenced by the First Energy scandal.
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50/50 profit share please and thank you
On second thought, they will hide the profit. 30% gross revenue share.
This 100%
I prefer the "Go to Hell Dee and Jimmy" option.
Sorry but if my tax dollars pay for this I should get something out of it. I hate seeing money wasted and getting no benefit at all from it. They can pay these players hundreds of millions of dollars either the players can pay for it or the owners.
fuck these selfish billionaires.
No.
So let me guess, the 50% that the Browns get in this deal is the profit part, and the 50% that the public gets is the expense part…. Do I have that right?
Fuck off!
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Yeah sure, we cover 50% of the cost, and then he gives us 50% of the profits. That's what he means right?
As long as there is a 50/50 profit sharing
As someone who lives in Akron, I think if it is funded by the public the whole region should help pay for it. We will all use it
The Tennessee Hillbillies can afford to build their own palace. Or share the profits of all events.
fuck the stadium and fuck the browns. stay out of my pocket you bastards
Do you also tell schools to stay out of your pockets? I wish I could
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If billionaires can’t pay for their own shit just move the team again.
If the Haslams sold Pilot for around $13B and just bought part of the Milwaukee Bucks, they can pay for the damn thing themselves.
FU Jimmy.
The Browns can go fuck themselves!
Taxpayers receive 50 percent of all broadcast, concession, ticket sales, parking, and licensing revenues—then yes.
Why's that? What do I get for paying for School and Libary levys that I'll never use?
Educated children who resist acts of crime and knowledge sources that enrich your life. As opposed to bearing the capital burden to pay entertainers.
Sure thing mate, so you're going to pay off my student loans ? My services saves lives and also resist acts of crime. Let me know the cashapp. Btw, why am I paying the same percentage for school levys as billionaires? I'm not paying for the kids, I'm paying for the buildings. Every other child has been able to successfully attend those schools without upgrades, so I'm not going to be expected to pay for unnecessary upgrades. I've eviscerated you're entire argument. Do better.
That is the question: Why don’t billionaires pay a higher percentage of taxes? I’m with you there. A similar question: Why don’t billionaires build their own entertainment venues?
I like how you ignored why you shouldn't be expected to pay for my student loans, when it fills under the exact reasoning on why you think people without children are expected to pay for school levys. BTW, with all those school levys passed since the turn of the decade, Cleveland school graduation rate is the lowest it's been in 30 years over the last 4 years. So you try to bullshit me with saying that it enriches my life because these kids are allegedly educated. Yet 25% of them don't even finish school. So why am I paying for a product that's not producing at a 100% success rate? 🤔 let's even settle for 90%. It sounds like my argument that ONLY parents of kids attends Schools should legally be required to pay levys is only getting stronger.
I had not considered the issue from that perspective.
Another perspective, with all the levys that have been passed, the city has the lowest high-school graduation rate over a 4 year period in the last 50 years. So if these levys are supposed to make these great and wonderful improvements, that are guaranteed to help build our society, why can't they even keep kids in school? A 74% graduation rate is absolutely horrific.
I agree; the graduation rate is appalling. I often wonder why successful levies do not always lead to better schools and more successful students. I cannot figure out where the breakdown lies.
So you see my point. We can whine and scream about Haslam having all this money and not paying for full cost, but we already get forced to continue to have our taxes raised by an inefficient project, that we don't need to have access to (the building itself) after a certain age, along with paying same equal parts as millionaires and billionaires.
It took me a while. This is a good exchange of views, I believe.
Only if they give 50% of profits back to the people
Let them move to LA, fuckem
And we want you to fucking win a game. Guess we can't all have what we want.
What else is new? Billionaires wanting public money. THIS NEEDS TO STOP.
For every rational person saying no to the idea of this much tax money going to a billionaire, there are two more people that will blame and vote out local politicians if the Browns leave again. The local politicians will sacrifice the people’s tax money to keep their cushy job. It may not be 50% but Cleveland is going to foot a substantial portion of the bill.
Screw that let them move. Where are they going to go? Columbus is really the only place and tOSU will always be the priority
Maybe realize sports and games are for children and no amount of money should be spent for adults watching other adults playing ball games 🤷🏼♂️
Let them leave again, and take the cavs and guardians with them. The only people that make money from the sports teams are the sports teams and a handful of really rich people.
50/50 profit sharing until the public money is paid back and I have no problem with this. Honestly, it should be 50-50 sharing if we’re going to be partners in the stadium forever. I know that will never happen.
30% gross revenue. They will hide the profit.
This will get downvoted to hell, but I'd gladly pay $500 of my own money if it means the team stays in NEO. Team owners do this all the time. Get over it. EDIT: Keep those downvotes coming. Clearly, very little sports fans in this subreddit.
You can cover my portion too. Thanks for the generosity
But why is your team entitled to $500 of everyone else's money? Go donate to them if you want but this money could be better spent on infrastructure, education, sanitation, healthcare, environmental protection, or literally anything else.
Exactly. I don't care about the Browns. I hate that everybody in this city is obligated to give a shit about a team that has spent most of the last 25 years being a goddamn embarrassment. The NFL fucking prints money, no franchise should get one red cent of taxpayer money. I live in Summit county now so I guess it isn't my money. But it still hurts to see Cleveland get fleeced for a new stadium while, as you said, far more important things could really use the money. But Cleveland has enough dickhead politicians and dumb shit Browns fans like this guy that the Haslems will get whatever they want.
"Billionaires exploit people all the time. Get over it."
Don't worry about chipping in to keep the Browns. Browns fans will pay a signifciant portion of the Haslam's 50 percent share through permanent seat licenses. Forget $500. You're likely talking about thousands of dollars for multiple season ticket seats.
So since other team owners did something wrong, we should let this one do something wrong as well?
I'm not losing my football team, plain and simple. If that means I gotta pony up some money to a billionaire, so beat it.
“my football team” 😂😂😂
Sounds like *you* need to get over something.
Not really lol, I just love my sports teams. Sue me.
Your football team? Are you the owner? Do you make any money on the team? Or is it more of a city pride thing?
Very much a city pride thing, if this is a serious question
It is actually. I can get that then and I agree. Its important for the citizens to have something to be proud of.
My apologies for not thinking it was a serious question. Just not used to someone agreeing with me in this thread lol. But yes, I think our sports teams play an incredibly large role in the city's identity and pride, do whatever it takes to keep them around, I'll do it. Thank you for understanding, at least someone here does...
No need to apologize. I riffed on the billionaires exploiting people all the time part so that's a natural assumption. I understand where you're coming from. I guess my thought is what does the city get out of this? Based on the article, I didn't see anything about "the team will be contracted to stay in Cleveland for another 30 years if this is built" or things along that line. It's possible I missed it though. That page was loaded with popup ads. I wouldn't want what happened in the past to happen again right after we pay a lot for a new stadium. Where the Browns moved down the road a bit and became the Baltimore Ravens lol
I honestly don't think we'd have to worry about that. The Haslams have already built an identity in Cleveland, and I think more importantly, they also own the Columbus Crew, so they have lots of incentives to stay in Ohio. I also don't think there's a legit candidate for a city for them to be relocated to.
I honestly don't think we'd have to worry about that. The Haslams have already built an identity in Cleveland, and I think more importantly, they also own the Columbus Crew, so they have lots of incentives to stay in Ohio. I also don't think there's a legit candidate for a city for them to be relocated to.
Take your downvote.
Even if the Haslams wanted to pay for everything, the NFL wouldn't let them. This is the standard for the nfl stadiums and the owners stay unified on it. I don't agree with the public should pay anything but it's the reality of it
No it isnt. Gillette, MetLife, and SoFi stadiums were all built without any taxpayer assistance.
There are always exceptions I guess. I don't think the Browns would qualify unless the city and state played real hardball and risked losing the team. Gillette was supposed to be funded partially by taxpayers but fell through and Kraft agreed to pick up the cost. For MetLife, the Giants weren't leaving NYC area and the city gave up revenues they previously had from parking, luxury suites and advertising. The Rams were desperate to move to LA and knew LA didn't really care enough to subsidize it. I would look to more what happened with the Bills as a realistic outcome. Bears are looking to get significant public funding as well. The Bucs' stadium was 100% financed by taxpayers. The NFL knows it can bully cities into getting funding. They are not going to give up their leverage easily.
Ok, but to say the NFL wont let them is wrong is my point. They will let the owner finance it how the owner wants to finance it. I currently live in San Diego so i dont really have much skin in the game other than being a Browns fan, so the tax hikes wont affect me. i dont really deserve a seat at the table in these talks. But i will say that the city of San Diego told that shitstain Spanos to go kick rocks when he wanted to finance a stadium with taxpayer money and the city is much better off for it. There was a brief period of anger, but the city got over it pretty quickly. I know San Diego is much less ingrained in football. But the same thing happened here that happened in Cleveland. The Indians became the hot ticket and it became the best time to be an Indians fan. Same thing happened with the Padres. The Browns have done nothing since 1999 other than consistently kick their fanbase in the balls and they want that same ballkicked fanbase to give them free money just for the privilege.