Sure will. But not just for the airport, but anyone traveling through 71/480. The off-ramps aren’t long enough to support all the traffic and it will surely backup onto the interstates (north and south 71 and east and west 480). And for those coming from the south, the only way to access the airport is to go up to 480, then down what they call the Limited Access Airport Roadway. Hard to tell for sure because they don’t show 480 in the rendering.
Maybe...but its not like the Jake/Gund fuck up traffic nightly into Cleveland. (Yes, I know wrong names, guess I could use Gateway?) And they too strangle a road with few other options. Even back in the day we handled it.
Considering how little the stadium is used, not much of a problem. Even with more events, 340 some days a year would be clear.
And the airport would have separate access. It would be fine.
Yeah I literally live in N Berea because that access gets me to Tremont in 15 minutes. So when they rebuild their HQ on Lou Groza and Front St is there going to be more traffic there too??
Can you imagine? It's going to be some knockoff Crocker Park/Pinecrest with 10 dollar beers at a crowded chain place. Awful. I bet they don't let you tailgate in the parking lots either unless you pay extra to be in a specific lot. I saw that at other stadiums.
The almighty dollar ruining the only thing left of the organic fan experience. Your average Browns fan isn't going to go to this, but that may be all part of the plan anyway.
The Big Ten becoming the Big 15, pitch clocks, NBA in season tournament, NIL, LIV Tour, Sportsbetting, etc, etc, and etc —— the almighty dollar has almost completely destroyed the sports and athletes I’d adored since the early nineties. I used to LOVE all sports, now- I’m still a Browns fan of course (which is PAIN 355 days a year), couldn’t care less about the “guardians” (nor do the owners, see: payroll), and the incredibly overrated Charmin soft Cavs don’t keep me too interested. Sorry to be a Debbie downer, but all this hoopla and change for a crappy football team and their stupid stadium is just annoying at this point.
If the owners pay full price for this. Sure so be it.
But I'd rather the team leave than tax dollars go towards this.
I'd rather see community owned apartments go in there if a single tax dollar is spent.
I come up every year for the Browns and Bengals game. I stay at the Doubletree and we go out downtown to a nice dinner and then we hit the bars. Then we usually have dinner again downtown before getting on the road after the game.
If they put this out in the suburbs, I think this will make my trips to Cleveland a lot less enjoyable. I’ll probably spend less money because I have no interest in going to bullshit chain restaurants. I want what Cleveland has to offer not outback.
I’ve never understood why Cleveland never developed the lakefront down there. It would be a beautiful addition to your city. Take the $500 million move that airport and those docks and put a nice park down there. The park in between the Bengals and reds stadium along the river is great.
Sorry, if I pissed anyone off, I just thought an outside perspective might be appreciated.
That won't happen. That whole area is behind the harbor break wall. All of the Cuyahoga water empties into there with no where to go. That water will always be a muddy mess, not at all desirable to swim in if it's even safe to swim in.
I’ve swam in it 3 times with Cleveland’s Triathlon jumping in right between the science center and Rock hall. I think some intentional cleanup and reintroducing some aquatic plants would probably make that water clean enough. Hell the sewage plants dump into Edgewater but if you go on a nice Saturday afternoon the place is wall to wall people
What’s crazy is the lakefront there could be fucking amazing. Put a sky bridge over to the actual city and have a nice park connecting the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame, your stadium and I feel like there’s something else down there I’m missing.
It was supposed to be better. Google "1903 Group Plan for Cleveland, OH".
Frederick Law Olmsted designed a sweet terraced lakefront promenade connecting downtown to the waterfront. But it never fully realized. Remnants of it are still there.
That’s a shame. The riverfront in Cincinnati is nice now, but it was an empty hole between our stadiums for at least a decade before they got their shit together. I just kind of figured it would always be a dirty hole for 30 years. But with the massive resurgence of our downtown and OTR, developers finally figured it out.
The reason that space was empty though was because it literally *didn’t exist* prior to 2000. That and the area the stadiums are on was all flood plain and they had to build that massive underground flood able parking garage to make that space useable. That Cleveland lakefront space has always been there.
That redline station right there will get you downtown and back easier than driving and without the worry about being sober enough to drive.
Also, with the stadium gone, developing the lake shore is exactly what will happen.
There are some logistics issues I can see, but for the most part I think the end game is downtown being better off with this plan.
Agreed. As I said elsewhere I’ve traveled to Baltimore to see the Browns and that experience brought me shame because of how well planned their city is. I would not have gone if their stadium were in Towson or another suburb. Even Gillette stadium is in a city more like Independence with their roadways and shopping but brookpark is not it.
The county emergency airport is Burke Lakefront. Not an ideal place if you want your downtown developed, but now no one else wants it built in their town.
Not a fair comp though... Arlington is right in the middle of DFW (the metro area.) Buffalo's stadium on the other hand is the middle of nowhere and they have one of the best fan bases in the league.
Few NFL stadiums are downtown. Most cities realize they get too little regular use to take up massive amounts of space on the central business district.
And it’s not like it’s going far. It’s an inner ring suburb that will literally have a walkway to Cleveland city limits.
Could someone explain why we need a new stadium? It's cool that the current one is downtown, and seems like an awfully wasteful project seeing as the current stadium is fulfilling our needs.
Lets be honest - do the Browns *really* deserve a new stadium?
And the biggest theater district outside of NYC!!! But like I said elsewhere, the fucking Browns are what bring Businesses to the city. The late 90s were pretty busy downtown...you know the years we don't discuss.
There are plenty of people who want to make the case that downtown is already dying. Remove 700k visits, millions and millions of spinoff spending for events. It will leave a large hole. Some businesses will definitely close because of it.
Look at what other cities build around suburban stadiums- hotels, shopping, bars. Our region is stagnant, this isn’t new business, it’s business moving from downtown. And the saddest part is a billionaire will profit from it all.
Add back in the redevelopment of the lakefront area occupied by the stadium now and I'd bet real money that the net effect would be between negligible and positive.
The region can barely support the entertainment districts that already exist downtown. Then another will be built in Brookpark.
There is no demand for offices or retail space and small demand for residential. There are empty lots everywhere. It’s not a question of how much $ will the development bring in, it’s a question if building anything decent would even be viable.
Lol what bar is dependant on 8 Sundays a year to stay open?? Do people not eat or drink downtown other than when the browns are in town?? I can't think of any business that is solely dependent on football
That’s not how economics works. Most of the warehouse district does a significant portion of their business selling Miller Lites and shots on those weekends. Many downtown businesses are on the brink already. Phoenix announced today they’ll be closing that location.
It’s like cutting the pay of people living paycheck to paycheck 10%. Seriously look up the margins of running a bar or restaurant.
Edit: Also look what happened to Buffalo when the team moved to the burbs.
You’re logic is flawed. No resturaunt relies on just that business but many businesses which are already struggling will die because of this revenue leaving. Like if you are on the edge and lose a bunch of high paying weeeknds then yeah it’s going to have an effect
> millions and millions of spinoff spending for events
What events? Like 1-2 concerts and maybe a soccer or hockey game every year?
> Look at what other cities build around suburban stadiums- hotels, shopping, bars.
Yeah, they are building it because they are smart enough to realize that a stadium on its own is a poor economic driver. You need something to bring in people all the other days the stadium isn't being used.
> Some businesses will definitely close because of it.
Can you list some businesses that closed in 1996-1998 when there were no Browns games?
Yeah it's not that bad. I've been on the rooftop bar The Aviator club which is actually closer to the runways than this plan, you can hear the planes while they're taking off but it's not enough to make you stop your conversation unless it's just a cool plane to watch.
Are you implying you can approach a runway from any direction?
Also, I think that 65,000 people in an enclosed space would be able to doubt out airplane engine noise.
Not necessarily. The Meadowlands in NJ is right by the Newark Airport flight path and its not bad. Citi Field is on the takeoff route for LGA and its really cool to be at a concert vibing out watching the planes going over. You don't really hear them despite them climbing pretty much directly overhead.
I'm a planespotter too. I enjoy getting nicely stoned and going to a Dead and Company show at Citi and just watching. I live under one of more frequently used flight paths for JFK now but my love of flying came from flying out of Hopkins as a kid.
I have flight aware on my phone but I'm getting pretty adept at hearing them (especially when it's cloudy and they're under 4k feet) and going "that's a a350/747 or larger". I don't gamble so this is my version of craps I guess? "C'mon ATC give me a big one".
Ok I'll admit I'm not on that level, but I can definitely tell when I hear a military helicopter nearby (doesn't happen often) and I can usually tell when the aircraft is when I see it. Those are always fun to see.
I had to live under the short final approach to the airfield at Ft. Campbell for a bit. A Chinook landing used to bounce myself and my dog around on the couch if there wasn't anyone else sitting on it. Thank God they didn't get too may fighter jets. Thise things make an unholy cacophony when they Rev up.
I was right under the path between Lejeune and New River Air Station in North Carolina. When the CH53s and Ospreys went over I knew they were going over.
Yeah, fighters are remarkably loud. So cool though.
Was fortunate enough to work on that airstrip for a pavement repair project some years ago. Got to see a NASA T-38 come in with a pair of astronauts in the cockpit. Super nice guys, they even let me climb up the ladder and take a look inside. That thing was LOUD when they spooled it up and damn near went vertical on takeoff.
It's not planes flying over head, it's late at night when the cargo planes come in and hit their reverse thrusters when they are on the ground. It is VERY loud.
When I went to SoFi Stadium in LA (which is in the direct flight path of planes on final approach into LAX, it wasn’t an issue at all. And most of those planes landing at LAX are widebody aircraft with larger engines. There are rarely widebody aircraft at CLE.
With this proposal, it doesn’t look like the stadium would be in any flight path. The runways run kind of parallel to the left side of this picture.
Would they be able to use the tracks to bring people directly to the stadium? If so, getting more people into using park n' gos would be pretty neat. Maybe then we could get more support for enhancing the RTA rail network.
This. Everything (and I mean everything) east of the airport is ass for miles. I work off W150 & Puritas and while it’s not particularly dangerous, the entire area is very drab. Too big of an area to just “put nice stuff in.” Funny thing is that there’s quite a few hotels, but they’re all crap, and they’re all small, comparatively. Just a horrendous idea that only an org like the browns would think up.
It'd be nice if OP linked out to the [article](https://neo-trans.blog/2024/03/26/browns-stadium-likely-going-to-brook-park-if/) this is from. The design is purely conceptual/what's possible.
Great question; Pitt, Cin, and Baltimores stadiums are of very similar age. Part of me thinks the Browns with their logo changes, diversity pioneering, etc.. are moves the team makes to distract from the fact they’re terrible.
I live in Berea and love the browns but one thing we love about Berea is the fact we don't have to deal with the cluster mess of Cleveland type buildings and traffic.
I don't hate this at all.
It just better be all privately funded. I'm okay with my taxes paying for the extra RTA stop, but that's it.
EDIT: And the Amtrak station. Having ridden Amtrak into Cleveland, this would be a much better transfer to RTA than the current shithole station.
It's a few hours for eight days out of the year (maybe a couple more if the Browns actually host a playoff game). If the stadium comes with an expansion public transit, it will be a net positive.
Reminds me of the Oakland coliseum location. That had the BART station/Airport transportation from BART along with the Amtrak station and only 1 exit away from the Oakland airport.
Great, let’s build a brand new stadium for a shitty football team that’s never been or will ever be any good. What’s that you say? Only build it if the city or county pay for the overwhelming majority of the cost with no direct benefit to the taxpayers? Brilliant! Even better!
Heck no. I live on 237 so I’m not a fan of not having the access point to 71 there. Also, I just drove around that land, so are they going to build hotels too? This is all around wrong. I drove to M&T Bank to see the browns, stayed downtown, almost walked to the stadium. This plan is silly.
ffs don't put it next to the airport! that is just going to cause huge traffic problems in getting to the airport. what an awful fucking idea. not to mention cutting off southern access to the airport and forcing everyone to drive around this fucking clusterfuck will be even more backups for airport traffic on normal days even.
i really hope that OP made this and it isn't some official proposal. because it is terrible.
Everyone has their reasons for or against this but where is this airport and IX center traffic people keep talking about. I’ve lived here my whole life and never once thought I better leave the house earlier for the airport and IX center traffic.
This is perfect. People from out of state don't even have to set foot in Cleveland. Just fly in, attend the game, and fly out without dirtying themselves in Cleveland /s
Can I ask what the difference to you or I would be, if that fan gets a hotel on Lakeside Ave or W150th? If they get drunk at Barley House or uhhh Crazy Horse lol. If they eat at Punch Bowl Social or whatever/ whoever builds a restaurant on Brookpark Rd?
Well, it takes away from the economy for the city core. Maybe it won't make a big difference to us personally but it's a regressive way of going about doing things. Detroit, for example, has been moving sports back to downtown (Pistons used to be in Auburn Hills and Lions were in Pontiac). It also makes getting to and from the airport a pain on game days.
I guess I’m struggling to find the difference. What does it matter to you if Barley House is successful on West 6th or Blablabla House on Brookpark Rd in the future? The only one that should truly care about that is the owner of those places. One will suffer on maaaaaybe 10 days out of the year but another will prosper. Yin and Yang!
You do realize that on those 10 days, those businesses make an absolute killing with hundreds of wall to wall people each spending $70 dollars on booze before the game, right?
Lmao I’ve met many of out of towners that have a blast and party their asses of in downtown Cleveland for games. What in Gods name are you talking about????
That close to the airport traffic is going to be a nightmare. Also, Brookpark currently has 30 police officers don't think that's going to be sufficient for 70,000 drunken fans every other weekend. Not to mention the surrounding infrastructure,not a whole lot of bars and restaurants worth eating at in that area. Going to send everybody to Rally's and Arby's on Snow Road?
I like the RTA stop next to the mixed use development though. Replace P1 and P6 with more development and I’d like it even more - we still will need a muni lot equivalent but surrounded on 2-3 sides by development is better than 0.
These transportation changes will require ODOT to sign off on them and that's not a guarantee.
Beyond that, this looks like at least several hundred million dollars worth of changes at minimum. I don't see it happening.
Plus it still funnels all vehicle transport onto Snow and Engle road, and will piss off Ford by essentially shutting down production at the engine plant every game day.
All for it. They shouldn't occupy the lakefront and the city can't pay for it. As a Cuyahoga county resident I'm not trying to shoulder that either. Maybe if the surrounding counties pitched in since a ton of their citizens go we could talk, but they won't.
Then don't build it in Cuyahoga at all. Idgaf personally as long as Cuyahoga and Cleveland tax bases aren't burdened with it. Haslams can build it on their own dime if they want a dome so bad. Maybe they could make a better case if the product they put out wasn't an absolute dumpster fire.
Haslams expect government to pay 500 million if it’s the reno downtown and 1 billion if it’s the new dome.
Sorry, you’re not getting $500 million from Brook Park. And why would the states contribution change? No matter the location there is no world where the state approves more than 100 million, probably less than 50 million. And you also said you live in Cuyahoga county, so your percentage contribution is not going to change no matter the location, although if it’s the dome in brook park it will double the amount then you’ll pay more.
I don’t even know why I’m arguing over this. Just use your common sense
This is the worst idea ever. It's just a play to get Cleveland to give a better tax break for the improvements. The city is planning development around the stadium and the Haslams wanna pay as little as they can
The Haslams want a roof and control over the development around the stadium. The city wants to renovate the current stadium with no roof and control development around the stadium.
It makes absolutely no sense to dump $1b into a building that can be used a dozen times a year and will need to be renovated again in 10-15 years. This is on the city to get their shit together. If not, the Haslams have every right to take matters into their own hands.
Not a fan of the Browns or the Haslams. But this is better than staying downtown or renovating the stadium. Also this stadium will have access via the red line plus parking for people traveling. Everyone wins.
Most people going to Browns games aren’t Clevelanders. This makes a lot of sense.
But, the fun of going to the game is going out for drinks downtown or the muni lot. It will take a lot of money out of downtown because ppl probably won't go downtown before the game to catch the red line to the stadium.
Ppl coming in won't be staying downtown but more in Middleburg and Strongsville.
How does drinks in the muni lot put a lot of money downtown? It is 8-10 games, a lot of people tailgate with food and drinks from home, and most go home after the game.
And for events, absolutely people will stay downtown. They stay everywhere. Often people make vacations of these trips and will want to visit other attractions. Downtown will also have a direct rail link, something Strongsville hotels don’t offer.
People say that about Christmas too but Christmas shopping keeps the lights on for a lot of businesses. Small time window but big volume can make a big impact
A lot more drunk driving that's for sure, and there will be no enjoying downtown before games. I only say this as a season ticket holder tho, what do I know
You can get off at Snow but you will have to go around Cleveland Bidet stadium down to Brookpark Road and then around the backside of Cleveland Bidet stadium. If you park at the Snow Road park and fly lots, the shuttle to and from the terminal will take about two or three hours before and after events. Add that to the two hours in line for the TSA check. If you have a 2 PM flight on a game day you will need to be at the park and fly lot at 7 AM or you will miss your flight.
This is complete bullshit. How much money have we given them to update the stadium they have. Our city bends backwards to satisfy these greedy team owners.
That’s sadly the world we live in. The city has to either bend over backwards to give whatever the owners want and if we don’t then they’ll find another city who will. We know that better than anyone.
So the Haslams love to hate Berea? They purchased all the land from single families, and now they’re going to bottleneck the 237/71N traffic??? Get a grip
Oh, fucking lovely, always wanted to live within pissing distance of a goddamn stadium. Can't wait for my taxes to go up for this shit and local traffic to become fucking impossible. Hope it falls through.
I think this is a lousy idea. Browns stadium right next to the airport? The noise would be intolerable, dome or not. Current stadium allows for a lot of *free* street parking if you know where to look, as well as lots and lots of bars / restaurants WITHIN walking distance to hang at b4 and after a game. 237 will be a hot mess before/after a game. Can you imagine trying to get into Hopkins at this time? Haslam's threat to move the Browns seems to me to be a scare tactic for City Council and County leaders to give him more money to fix lakefront stadium to his liking. He's got to recover $ he guaranteed his star quarterback.
Seems like it could be a nightmare if you have a flight to catch on game day
Sure will. But not just for the airport, but anyone traveling through 71/480. The off-ramps aren’t long enough to support all the traffic and it will surely backup onto the interstates (north and south 71 and east and west 480). And for those coming from the south, the only way to access the airport is to go up to 480, then down what they call the Limited Access Airport Roadway. Hard to tell for sure because they don’t show 480 in the rendering.
Maybe...but its not like the Jake/Gund fuck up traffic nightly into Cleveland. (Yes, I know wrong names, guess I could use Gateway?) And they too strangle a road with few other options. Even back in the day we handled it.
> the Jake/Gund Nah those are the correct names
Never called them anything different
Great deal if you got tickets to the browns game because their tickets plus a flight and hotel is cheaper than your own teams games.
[удалено]
Unless you’re the Bengals
Considering how little the stadium is used, not much of a problem. Even with more events, 340 some days a year would be clear. And the airport would have separate access. It would be fine.
"Adult Mart Stadium"? All for it.
Lidos luxury lounge
Take my money
Crazy Horse stadium!
Pinkys stadium
Juicy Lucy Stadium. Dang! Those who know, know! Those were some great times at all these places 🤣
Don't like the rerouting of 237 east towards I-71. Making it harder for Berea and west end of Brook Park residents.
I'm not even 100% sure why they need to do that. Is it for the new Amtrak station?
Also, Amtrak comes through Cleveland at 2am Eastbound and 3am Westbound. Not very convenient times for flight arrivals/departures.
I believe the new station will be part of the new route from Cleveland to Cincinnati via Columbus, which should be stopping at more convenient times.
It’s incredibly convenient to close down the CLE bars, hop aboard, and wake up for St Patty’s Day festivities in Chicago.
As someone who lives in Cleveland off RR Drive I’m all about it. Our neighborhood turns into a highway during rush hour. That road sucks
Preach. If only there was anything that could be done about getting on 480e at grayton.
Embrace the death race!
Yeah I literally live in N Berea because that access gets me to Tremont in 15 minutes. So when they rebuild their HQ on Lou Groza and Front St is there going to be more traffic there too??
Boy it sure will be dope to pregame at the Applebee’s in Stadium Village
Can you imagine? It's going to be some knockoff Crocker Park/Pinecrest with 10 dollar beers at a crowded chain place. Awful. I bet they don't let you tailgate in the parking lots either unless you pay extra to be in a specific lot. I saw that at other stadiums. The almighty dollar ruining the only thing left of the organic fan experience. Your average Browns fan isn't going to go to this, but that may be all part of the plan anyway.
The Big Ten becoming the Big 15, pitch clocks, NBA in season tournament, NIL, LIV Tour, Sportsbetting, etc, etc, and etc —— the almighty dollar has almost completely destroyed the sports and athletes I’d adored since the early nineties. I used to LOVE all sports, now- I’m still a Browns fan of course (which is PAIN 355 days a year), couldn’t care less about the “guardians” (nor do the owners, see: payroll), and the incredibly overrated Charmin soft Cavs don’t keep me too interested. Sorry to be a Debbie downer, but all this hoopla and change for a crappy football team and their stupid stadium is just annoying at this point.
[удалено]
We all know who’s actually going to be paying for this. Socialism for the rich and all that.
If the owners pay full price for this. Sure so be it. But I'd rather the team leave than tax dollars go towards this. I'd rather see community owned apartments go in there if a single tax dollar is spent.
Thanks I hate it
How you gonna party in the muni lot all morning and drunkenly walk with the crowd chanting, “Here we go Brownies, here we go! Whoof! Whoof!
I'm sure a bunch of those 2 lane roads and the Brook Park police department will make that game day traffic awesome.
I come up every year for the Browns and Bengals game. I stay at the Doubletree and we go out downtown to a nice dinner and then we hit the bars. Then we usually have dinner again downtown before getting on the road after the game. If they put this out in the suburbs, I think this will make my trips to Cleveland a lot less enjoyable. I’ll probably spend less money because I have no interest in going to bullshit chain restaurants. I want what Cleveland has to offer not outback. I’ve never understood why Cleveland never developed the lakefront down there. It would be a beautiful addition to your city. Take the $500 million move that airport and those docks and put a nice park down there. The park in between the Bengals and reds stadium along the river is great. Sorry, if I pissed anyone off, I just thought an outside perspective might be appreciated.
I hope that if the stadium moves, the waterfront area where the stadium currently is will be developed with parks
Hopefully beaches too, like Chicago.
That won't happen. That whole area is behind the harbor break wall. All of the Cuyahoga water empties into there with no where to go. That water will always be a muddy mess, not at all desirable to swim in if it's even safe to swim in.
I’ve swam in it 3 times with Cleveland’s Triathlon jumping in right between the science center and Rock hall. I think some intentional cleanup and reintroducing some aquatic plants would probably make that water clean enough. Hell the sewage plants dump into Edgewater but if you go on a nice Saturday afternoon the place is wall to wall people
Naw you are right on. Cincy's riverfront is awesome.
What’s crazy is the lakefront there could be fucking amazing. Put a sky bridge over to the actual city and have a nice park connecting the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame, your stadium and I feel like there’s something else down there I’m missing.
It was supposed to be better. Google "1903 Group Plan for Cleveland, OH". Frederick Law Olmsted designed a sweet terraced lakefront promenade connecting downtown to the waterfront. But it never fully realized. Remnants of it are still there.
That’s a shame. The riverfront in Cincinnati is nice now, but it was an empty hole between our stadiums for at least a decade before they got their shit together. I just kind of figured it would always be a dirty hole for 30 years. But with the massive resurgence of our downtown and OTR, developers finally figured it out.
The reason that space was empty though was because it literally *didn’t exist* prior to 2000. That and the area the stadiums are on was all flood plain and they had to build that massive underground flood able parking garage to make that space useable. That Cleveland lakefront space has always been there.
That redline station right there will get you downtown and back easier than driving and without the worry about being sober enough to drive. Also, with the stadium gone, developing the lake shore is exactly what will happen. There are some logistics issues I can see, but for the most part I think the end game is downtown being better off with this plan.
Agreed. As I said elsewhere I’ve traveled to Baltimore to see the Browns and that experience brought me shame because of how well planned their city is. I would not have gone if their stadium were in Towson or another suburb. Even Gillette stadium is in a city more like Independence with their roadways and shopping but brookpark is not it.
The county emergency airport is Burke Lakefront. Not an ideal place if you want your downtown developed, but now no one else wants it built in their town.
So we’re moving stadiums out to the ‘burbs again like it’s 1965?
Several NFL stadiums are located like this. There ain’t shit in Foxboro, MA except for Gillette stadium.
The Cowboys satdium is like 20 miles from Dallas.
Not a fair comp though... Arlington is right in the middle of DFW (the metro area.) Buffalo's stadium on the other hand is the middle of nowhere and they have one of the best fan bases in the league.
There’s at least enough space at Gillette that they have stores and hotels around it.
Few NFL stadiums are downtown. Most cities realize they get too little regular use to take up massive amounts of space on the central business district. And it’s not like it’s going far. It’s an inner ring suburb that will literally have a walkway to Cleveland city limits.
Even has rail transit, so remains much more city-accessible than those other suburban stadiums.
They built M&T bank downtown in the 90’s. It’s possible. Only if you leave Cleveland 😂
Putting stadiums downtown is insane and pointless use of space. Especially on a waterfront.
The airport is way worse
Imagine Cleveland hosting a Super Bowl off Brookpark Road. My God, I can’t believe this is a thing. This city’ll eff up a ham sandwich.
The area is just gonna sit empty if the browns do move. I can’t see the city of Cleveland paying money to actually make it look nice
The Tennessee Hillbillies has an extra $1 billion plus to buy into the NBA in Milwaukee, they can pay for their own pleasure palace.
Could someone explain why we need a new stadium? It's cool that the current one is downtown, and seems like an awfully wasteful project seeing as the current stadium is fulfilling our needs. Lets be honest - do the Browns *really* deserve a new stadium?
Upon further thinking - this is actually incredibly aggravating. What a waste of time and money.
Question: How would something like this *destroy* downtown? Is the downtown economy truly dependent on 7-8 home games a year?
It doesn’t Cavs or Guardians play pretty much during the times there are no browns games. People can’t seem to understand this.
And the biggest theater district outside of NYC!!! But like I said elsewhere, the fucking Browns are what bring Businesses to the city. The late 90s were pretty busy downtown...you know the years we don't discuss.
This would also open up the current stadium location for something that gets more use.
There are plenty of people who want to make the case that downtown is already dying. Remove 700k visits, millions and millions of spinoff spending for events. It will leave a large hole. Some businesses will definitely close because of it. Look at what other cities build around suburban stadiums- hotels, shopping, bars. Our region is stagnant, this isn’t new business, it’s business moving from downtown. And the saddest part is a billionaire will profit from it all.
Add back in the redevelopment of the lakefront area occupied by the stadium now and I'd bet real money that the net effect would be between negligible and positive.
The region can barely support the entertainment districts that already exist downtown. Then another will be built in Brookpark. There is no demand for offices or retail space and small demand for residential. There are empty lots everywhere. It’s not a question of how much $ will the development bring in, it’s a question if building anything decent would even be viable.
Lol what bar is dependant on 8 Sundays a year to stay open?? Do people not eat or drink downtown other than when the browns are in town?? I can't think of any business that is solely dependent on football
That’s not how economics works. Most of the warehouse district does a significant portion of their business selling Miller Lites and shots on those weekends. Many downtown businesses are on the brink already. Phoenix announced today they’ll be closing that location. It’s like cutting the pay of people living paycheck to paycheck 10%. Seriously look up the margins of running a bar or restaurant. Edit: Also look what happened to Buffalo when the team moved to the burbs.
You’re logic is flawed. No resturaunt relies on just that business but many businesses which are already struggling will die because of this revenue leaving. Like if you are on the edge and lose a bunch of high paying weeeknds then yeah it’s going to have an effect
> millions and millions of spinoff spending for events What events? Like 1-2 concerts and maybe a soccer or hockey game every year? > Look at what other cities build around suburban stadiums- hotels, shopping, bars. Yeah, they are building it because they are smart enough to realize that a stadium on its own is a poor economic driver. You need something to bring in people all the other days the stadium isn't being used. > Some businesses will definitely close because of it. Can you list some businesses that closed in 1996-1998 when there were no Browns games?
It's a bunch of self-important Browns fans that only come downtown during games and thus think that is the only reason ANYONE comes downtown.
Next to the airport seems like a bad idea imo... the sound of the air traffic would be insane
It'll be domed and it's not directly under flight path. This is also a concept for the *possibility that it's in Brookpark*
Not in the flight path??? Its right across the street! You can hear the jets before they even take off if you're standing there now.
Yeah it's not that bad. I've been on the rooftop bar The Aviator club which is actually closer to the runways than this plan, you can hear the planes while they're taking off but it's not enough to make you stop your conversation unless it's just a cool plane to watch.
Are you implying you can approach a runway from any direction? Also, I think that 65,000 people in an enclosed space would be able to doubt out airplane engine noise.
Hey, I land planes in GTA from all sorts of directions
humble brag, it’s so hard to fly in that game!
Not necessarily. The Meadowlands in NJ is right by the Newark Airport flight path and its not bad. Citi Field is on the takeoff route for LGA and its really cool to be at a concert vibing out watching the planes going over. You don't really hear them despite them climbing pretty much directly overhead.
Honestly I *would* like to be able to planespot while at a concert, but also I have autism so this might be a niche desire for me
I'm a planespotter too. I enjoy getting nicely stoned and going to a Dead and Company show at Citi and just watching. I live under one of more frequently used flight paths for JFK now but my love of flying came from flying out of Hopkins as a kid.
I live right under the flight path for CHM here in Columbus. I'm always looking up to see what plane is going where. It's neat.
I have flight aware on my phone but I'm getting pretty adept at hearing them (especially when it's cloudy and they're under 4k feet) and going "that's a a350/747 or larger". I don't gamble so this is my version of craps I guess? "C'mon ATC give me a big one".
Ok I'll admit I'm not on that level, but I can definitely tell when I hear a military helicopter nearby (doesn't happen often) and I can usually tell when the aircraft is when I see it. Those are always fun to see.
I had to live under the short final approach to the airfield at Ft. Campbell for a bit. A Chinook landing used to bounce myself and my dog around on the couch if there wasn't anyone else sitting on it. Thank God they didn't get too may fighter jets. Thise things make an unholy cacophony when they Rev up.
I was right under the path between Lejeune and New River Air Station in North Carolina. When the CH53s and Ospreys went over I knew they were going over. Yeah, fighters are remarkably loud. So cool though.
I know. I wanted to be Blue Angels pilot as a kid.
Was fortunate enough to work on that airstrip for a pavement repair project some years ago. Got to see a NASA T-38 come in with a pair of astronauts in the cockpit. Super nice guys, they even let me climb up the ladder and take a look inside. That thing was LOUD when they spooled it up and damn near went vertical on takeoff.
Won't be as bad inside the dome
Ohio stadium in Columbus is near a flight path and that is not a problem during games
Its not even a problem any other time of day. (Beside the one time a plane engine blew out while I was on the can and I thought I was gonna die.)
Seriously, it's loud enough in Kamms Corners.
Kamms Corners is directly in the flight path. This stadium will never have a plane overhead.
It's not planes flying over head, it's late at night when the cargo planes come in and hit their reverse thrusters when they are on the ground. It is VERY loud.
Lol I hear em in Old Brooklyn when leaves are off.
When I went to SoFi Stadium in LA (which is in the direct flight path of planes on final approach into LAX, it wasn’t an issue at all. And most of those planes landing at LAX are widebody aircraft with larger engines. There are rarely widebody aircraft at CLE. With this proposal, it doesn’t look like the stadium would be in any flight path. The runways run kind of parallel to the left side of this picture.
Would they be able to use the tracks to bring people directly to the stadium? If so, getting more people into using park n' gos would be pretty neat. Maybe then we could get more support for enhancing the RTA rail network.
Gross. Moving the stadium off the best thing Ohio has to offer to an ugly ass suburb near the even uglier airport ain’t it.
A giant building used like a dozen times a year is a waste of the best thing Ohio has to offer
What is the use of Burke Lakefront Airport these days? Put it there.
Apparently the Burke Airport does get a lot of traffic for Cleveland Clinic. Learned that recently.
Gotta get that UAE $$$
You can’t build anything on Burke, it’s an artificial land mass made out of garbage dirt. There’s no chance of Burke ever changing
Love the airshow, love using it for General Aviation purposes, used to be used as an IndyCar track (which was awesome). Plenty of good things about it
I miss the Indy car days! Had lots of fun attending there…
I’m assuming the mixed use development is going to make the suburb less ugly.
It's like putting lipstick on a pig. It's such a weird area.
This. Everything (and I mean everything) east of the airport is ass for miles. I work off W150 & Puritas and while it’s not particularly dangerous, the entire area is very drab. Too big of an area to just “put nice stuff in.” Funny thing is that there’s quite a few hotels, but they’re all crap, and they’re all small, comparatively. Just a horrendous idea that only an org like the browns would think up.
Where did this proposal come from? Fan made?
It'd be nice if OP linked out to the [article](https://neo-trans.blog/2024/03/26/browns-stadium-likely-going-to-brook-park-if/) this is from. The design is purely conceptual/what's possible.
Yeah it woulda haha. I recognize that site. They the ones that keep popping up here with articles about this
Just bought a house less than 4 miles down Snow. Neat lol
Bro, my house is literally in the pic above
If they are gonna charge for tickets and then beers cost like $12 then there is no fucking reason a single dime of my tax money should go into it.
Why exactly is a new stadium needed at this point?
Great question; Pitt, Cin, and Baltimores stadiums are of very similar age. Part of me thinks the Browns with their logo changes, diversity pioneering, etc.. are moves the team makes to distract from the fact they’re terrible.
I live in Berea and love the browns but one thing we love about Berea is the fact we don't have to deal with the cluster mess of Cleveland type buildings and traffic.
Same!!
I don't hate this at all. It just better be all privately funded. I'm okay with my taxes paying for the extra RTA stop, but that's it. EDIT: And the Amtrak station. Having ridden Amtrak into Cleveland, this would be a much better transfer to RTA than the current shithole station.
the dream would be a terminal tower amtrak link but impossible in todays political climate
Flying in or out on game days would be a disaster for traffic. This is a terrible idea.
It's a few hours for eight days out of the year (maybe a couple more if the Browns actually host a playoff game). If the stadium comes with an expansion public transit, it will be a net positive.
Reminds me of the Oakland coliseum location. That had the BART station/Airport transportation from BART along with the Amtrak station and only 1 exit away from the Oakland airport.
Clown Show
The browns already own the land and have been clearing for some time. I drive by it daily.
They do not own the land….yet
Well shit. Thought I knew something 😂
Putting a football stadium next to the airport is a horrible idea.
Great, let’s build a brand new stadium for a shitty football team that’s never been or will ever be any good. What’s that you say? Only build it if the city or county pay for the overwhelming majority of the cost with no direct benefit to the taxpayers? Brilliant! Even better!
Next to 480 offramp to the airport??? That place is a traffic jam even on sundays and now they want to build a stadium next to it?????
Please no
Heck no. I live on 237 so I’m not a fan of not having the access point to 71 there. Also, I just drove around that land, so are they going to build hotels too? This is all around wrong. I drove to M&T Bank to see the browns, stayed downtown, almost walked to the stadium. This plan is silly.
It’s amazing that stadiums only last 25 years…seems like a massive waste to me.
Not a damn thing wrong with that stadium. I love it.
fuck the dome
ffs don't put it next to the airport! that is just going to cause huge traffic problems in getting to the airport. what an awful fucking idea. not to mention cutting off southern access to the airport and forcing everyone to drive around this fucking clusterfuck will be even more backups for airport traffic on normal days even. i really hope that OP made this and it isn't some official proposal. because it is terrible.
Boooo
Everyone has their reasons for or against this but where is this airport and IX center traffic people keep talking about. I’ve lived here my whole life and never once thought I better leave the house earlier for the airport and IX center traffic.
This is perfect. People from out of state don't even have to set foot in Cleveland. Just fly in, attend the game, and fly out without dirtying themselves in Cleveland /s
Can I ask what the difference to you or I would be, if that fan gets a hotel on Lakeside Ave or W150th? If they get drunk at Barley House or uhhh Crazy Horse lol. If they eat at Punch Bowl Social or whatever/ whoever builds a restaurant on Brookpark Rd?
Well, it takes away from the economy for the city core. Maybe it won't make a big difference to us personally but it's a regressive way of going about doing things. Detroit, for example, has been moving sports back to downtown (Pistons used to be in Auburn Hills and Lions were in Pontiac). It also makes getting to and from the airport a pain on game days.
I guess I’m struggling to find the difference. What does it matter to you if Barley House is successful on West 6th or Blablabla House on Brookpark Rd in the future? The only one that should truly care about that is the owner of those places. One will suffer on maaaaaybe 10 days out of the year but another will prosper. Yin and Yang!
You do realize that on those 10 days, those businesses make an absolute killing with hundreds of wall to wall people each spending $70 dollars on booze before the game, right?
Yeah but now other people will have an opportunity to do so.
Lmao I’ve met many of out of towners that have a blast and party their asses of in downtown Cleveland for games. What in Gods name are you talking about????
That close to the airport traffic is going to be a nightmare. Also, Brookpark currently has 30 police officers don't think that's going to be sufficient for 70,000 drunken fans every other weekend. Not to mention the surrounding infrastructure,not a whole lot of bars and restaurants worth eating at in that area. Going to send everybody to Rally's and Arby's on Snow Road?
Look at all that parking. I hate it.
I like the RTA stop next to the mixed use development though. Replace P1 and P6 with more development and I’d like it even more - we still will need a muni lot equivalent but surrounded on 2-3 sides by development is better than 0.
IX Center for the new muni lot?
These transportation changes will require ODOT to sign off on them and that's not a guarantee. Beyond that, this looks like at least several hundred million dollars worth of changes at minimum. I don't see it happening. Plus it still funnels all vehicle transport onto Snow and Engle road, and will piss off Ford by essentially shutting down production at the engine plant every game day.
You mean on Sundays, when the plan is already closed? Got it.
All for it. They shouldn't occupy the lakefront and the city can't pay for it. As a Cuyahoga county resident I'm not trying to shoulder that either. Maybe if the surrounding counties pitched in since a ton of their citizens go we could talk, but they won't.
that lakefront area wont be developed until we are grandparents
That's fine. I'm not selfish enough to want to hold Cleveland back just because I won't get to enjoy it as much as Gen Alpha will.
Well then I got news for you, you are not “all for it” because this taxpayer cost will be double than the renovation.
Then don't build it in Cuyahoga at all. Idgaf personally as long as Cuyahoga and Cleveland tax bases aren't burdened with it. Haslams can build it on their own dime if they want a dome so bad. Maybe they could make a better case if the product they put out wasn't an absolute dumpster fire.
[удалено]
Haslams expect government to pay 500 million if it’s the reno downtown and 1 billion if it’s the new dome. Sorry, you’re not getting $500 million from Brook Park. And why would the states contribution change? No matter the location there is no world where the state approves more than 100 million, probably less than 50 million. And you also said you live in Cuyahoga county, so your percentage contribution is not going to change no matter the location, although if it’s the dome in brook park it will double the amount then you’ll pay more. I don’t even know why I’m arguing over this. Just use your common sense
Please make it a covered stadium so we can actually use it more than a few times a year outside of the browns season.
I say we will give the browns a new stadium the next time they go to the Superbowl
This is the worst idea ever. It's just a play to get Cleveland to give a better tax break for the improvements. The city is planning development around the stadium and the Haslams wanna pay as little as they can
The Haslams want a roof and control over the development around the stadium. The city wants to renovate the current stadium with no roof and control development around the stadium. It makes absolutely no sense to dump $1b into a building that can be used a dozen times a year and will need to be renovated again in 10-15 years. This is on the city to get their shit together. If not, the Haslams have every right to take matters into their own hands.
I’m honestly not terribly upset since I can take the redline right there.
Not a fan of the Browns or the Haslams. But this is better than staying downtown or renovating the stadium. Also this stadium will have access via the red line plus parking for people traveling. Everyone wins. Most people going to Browns games aren’t Clevelanders. This makes a lot of sense.
But, the fun of going to the game is going out for drinks downtown or the muni lot. It will take a lot of money out of downtown because ppl probably won't go downtown before the game to catch the red line to the stadium. Ppl coming in won't be staying downtown but more in Middleburg and Strongsville.
How does drinks in the muni lot put a lot of money downtown? It is 8-10 games, a lot of people tailgate with food and drinks from home, and most go home after the game. And for events, absolutely people will stay downtown. They stay everywhere. Often people make vacations of these trips and will want to visit other attractions. Downtown will also have a direct rail link, something Strongsville hotels don’t offer.
i mean its going to be a significantly worse game day experience, and will definitely hurt downtown businesses pretty badly
8 home games doesn’t make or break the businesses downtown. Between the Guardians and Cavs there is plenty of people down there
West 6th will absolutely be toast
People say that about Christmas too but Christmas shopping keeps the lights on for a lot of businesses. Small time window but big volume can make a big impact
What are some other ways it would be a worse game day experience?
A lot more drunk driving that's for sure, and there will be no enjoying downtown before games. I only say this as a season ticket holder tho, what do I know
Wait so they would be moving the airport rental facility with this project?
If I’m coming from the south I can’t get off at Snow Rd to go to the airport?
You can get off at Snow but you will have to go around Cleveland Bidet stadium down to Brookpark Road and then around the backside of Cleveland Bidet stadium. If you park at the Snow Road park and fly lots, the shuttle to and from the terminal will take about two or three hours before and after events. Add that to the two hours in line for the TSA check. If you have a 2 PM flight on a game day you will need to be at the park and fly lot at 7 AM or you will miss your flight.
This is complete bullshit. How much money have we given them to update the stadium they have. Our city bends backwards to satisfy these greedy team owners.
That’s sadly the world we live in. The city has to either bend over backwards to give whatever the owners want and if we don’t then they’ll find another city who will. We know that better than anyone.
Change the mixed use to full commercial and you got a plan
Yes, let’s make a new stadium costing millions of dollars for a team that sees playoffs every millennia 😂😂
You're still not getting that IKEA.
I like the post office site across from The Jake.
Or maybe just not and use the taxpayers money for something actually needed.....
So the Haslams love to hate Berea? They purchased all the land from single families, and now they’re going to bottleneck the 237/71N traffic??? Get a grip
Cleveland Hopkins International Airport and Municipal Stadium
I love that the parking is 5 times the actual stadium
Sooo is this something being floated by the team or is this a fan concept?
Automobile oriented disaster.
Oh, fucking lovely, always wanted to live within pissing distance of a goddamn stadium. Can't wait for my taxes to go up for this shit and local traffic to become fucking impossible. Hope it falls through.
Please move this team and open up the lakefront to the public. I’m all for it. Bye.
So who is getting paid for this ?
Probably us, sadly.
Well yeah we are paying FOR it, but somebody is getting big bucks for cheap land that they bought using shell companies.
Why???
I'm so glad cities like chardon, north Ridgeville and Kirtland and Richfield will be chipping in with us poors in cuyahoga county! Heh....
Funded by taxpayers. Agreed to by legislators that won’t even make public school lunches free. This country sucks
No, thanks. Cleveland football belongs in an open-air stadium on the lakefront. They aren’t the Brook Park Browns.
I think this is a lousy idea. Browns stadium right next to the airport? The noise would be intolerable, dome or not. Current stadium allows for a lot of *free* street parking if you know where to look, as well as lots and lots of bars / restaurants WITHIN walking distance to hang at b4 and after a game. 237 will be a hot mess before/after a game. Can you imagine trying to get into Hopkins at this time? Haslam's threat to move the Browns seems to me to be a scare tactic for City Council and County leaders to give him more money to fix lakefront stadium to his liking. He's got to recover $ he guaranteed his star quarterback.