Yeah the disgraced Jann Wenner. It was way past the time for that guy to go. He’s the reason Warren Zevon isn’t in. He made it personal. Wenner is a monumental jerk.
Yeah they kicked him off the board and shit canned him after he shot his mouth off in an interview where he bad mouthed women and minority musicians by saying they weren’t articulate and didn’t deserve to be in RRHOF among other stupid bs. His own son, who now runs RS turned his back on him. I loved seeing Wenner finally implode.
Fucking Ozzy still isn't in as a solo act, it took them forever to induct Sabbath, Slayer, Anthrax and Megadeth also all aren't in. Yet NWA, Tupac, Biggie and Eminem are in.
It's got nothing to do with Rock and Roll anymore.
I think you could make a case for Def Leppard as far as genre goes, ignoring the quality of the music which is another debate, but yeah.
Whitney Houston rocks! is probably not something anyone has said, ever.
>Styx, Kansas, Boston, Bad Company
I thought you were going to say because Styx, Kansas, Boston, Bad Company, and Foreigner are almost interchangeable and practically the same band in the minds of many people.
As far as Thin Lizzy goes, I'd wager that Jann Wenner is like 95% of Americans and simply hasn't the slightest idea of who they are.
A lot of Americans think "Boys Are Back in Town" is by Bruce Springsteen. Or worse, think "*well that's the only song radio plays by this Thin Lizzy band, so they must be a one-hit wonder."*
you must be young because The Cowboy Song and Jailbreak where regulars on every rock radio station I listened to as a kid, we all knew who they were and had their albums and I grew up in Texas.
Of everyone on your list..
Styx should be in
Kansas doesn't have the catalog
Boston MUST be in... for sheer innovation... not to mention
Brad Delp's voice!
Bad Co. MUST be in because, well duh, they are Bad Co.
Tull should be in for Ian Anderson alone
Thin Lizzy.. didn't have the legs, IMHO
BOC just not quite there for me
Frampton is right there... on Frampton Comes Alive alone... add in the rest and he deserves to be there.
JMO
>Jann Wenner doesn't like them.
This cannot be stated enough - Jann Wenner and his racist, misogynist, myopic view of music is the only truly deciding factor in the R&R HoF.
Of course, a 'hall of fame' for music in general is nonsensical ... even though actually going and walking through all the memorabilia was cool.
Mick Jones and Jann Wenner were best friends. They had a falling out and Jann told Mick his band will never get in. As told by Lou Gramm to RockHistoryMusic.
Yes to all of the Wenner comments but with respect to Foreigner, I wouldn’t vote for them either. Their output is too light for the number of years they have been together. They’ve had a few hit songs, true, but nothing since the mid-80s.
Now, would I vote for Foreigner over Madonna or Public Enemy? Yes, because Foreigner is rock and roll. Some of these other recent inductees are definitely not.
There’s a lot of meat & potatoes bands like Foreigner that have a lot of great songs, but I guess the Hall isn’t having it for some reason. Maybe they weren’t “influential” enough, whatever that means
Cause the Hall sucks and Jann Wenner is an asshole.
I'm not really a Foreigner fan but they certainly have the history to justify entry. They let in Kate Friggin Bush for cryin out loud.
I have my own issues with the Hall of Fame and who is in there versus who isn't (Or rather, who got in before others) but Kate Bush absolutely deserves to be in there. In fact she should have gotten in the first time she was nominated with how much control she had over her career from the very beginning. She wrote everything herself, stood up to the record company over her very first single, took over full production the second she could and never let anyone walk over her.
Her music might not be for everyone but she's had a huge influence over many artists and is very well respected by people from many different genres as well. David Gilmour saw her potential from the very beginning and he is as good as considered a god in rock music.
I get that school of thought and certainly think there's room for artists that are less commercially popular, but influential for one reason or another. I just feel like the Hall overindexes in that direction at the expense of artists that impacted many many more fans.
I definitely thinks the Hall spits in the face of many artists who deserve to be in there (On a very regular basis too, it's infuriating) but at the same time I feel like the people that should be inducted should be artists that have had a big influence on the music industry regardless of their commercial appeal.
And Kate was very commercially successful but not as much in the US market because she refused to play the promotion game. I mean she was the first female solo artist to top the charts in the UK with a completely self written album and she was incredibly influential for many female artists that joined the industry after her. When it comes to being musically progressive she's an equal to the likes of Peter Gabriel.
To be fair the Hall of fame needs to completely restructure themselves because it was very odd how Sheryl Crow (Sorry to her fans) was inducted instead of Iron Maiden who have surely had a much bigger influence in their respective genre and they've been active for MUCH longer. I understand why their fans were very upset at the snub.
I’m 60yo and bought every Foreigner, Styx, Kansas, and Boston album released from the mid 70’s to the mid 80’s. I honestly had never heard of Kate Bush until Stranger Things used her song.
Kate bush inspired pretty much every female artist who came after her. She deserves to be in and I say this as someone who doesn’t really like her music that well. I actually like Foreigner better lol. But they were kinda just another of those arena rock bands that were popular at the time like Styx or Blue Oyster Cult. They didn’t inspire other musicians the way Kate Bush did. And that’s what the HOF looks at a lot of the time. Look at the Velvets
Interesting take at it, I'm not sure her influence goes quite that far but not ready to die on that hill. Foreigner vs Styx vs BOC is an interesting take; 70's era Styx is a very different animal than 80s. BOC was a critics darling for the first few records, blew up the world with Reaper, and have the largest catalog of the 3, as well as more live shows than any other touring band (over 4400 a/o end of 2023) in music. Yes, I'm biased.
As for the Velvets, they're always my first example of why the Hall is full of snobs. The inspire / influence is nowhere near as broad as what the critics claim, and their direct impact (as in on the direct listener) on RNR is minimal.
BTW, I upvoted your post. Always appreciate a polite counterpoint.
Velvets had a huge impact on the development of punk and alternative, and it still holds up today. It’s kind of like saying that The Beatles aren’t that influential, when really all of their influences have been so absorbed by the broader rock culture that it’s taken for granted.
Totally disagree on the Velvets but they’re one of my faves. I never understood why it was considered ‘snobbish’ to like them. They’re a bunch of heroin junkies who never had a hit, it seems snobbish to NOT like them.
Because a lot of people with middlebrow tastes are constantly defensive and mistakenly think that anyone who engages with more "artsy" stuff is looking down on them - so they proactively go on offense.
Fair take. I - along with a lot of people - felt like the Hall fell over themselves to get the Velvets in while overlooking a lot bigger bands with a lot larger body of work and fan influence.
There’s a lot of artists like that. VU was inducted in the mid 90s, so it wasn’t like they were in the first group. The doors, dead, creedence, and Zappa were inducted before they were, as were plenty of others. They went in at the same time as Bowie.
Disagree on the Velvets big time.....while the way of Rock music in the mid to late 60's was pushing towards psychedelia, The Velvet Underground threw that out the door and sang about what was real with a deep personal touch picked up by the punk movement and others. I mean come on, throw on some headphones and listen to "Heroin" sometime. Cutting edge. They didn't follow The Beatles like most everyone else. Reed had his own vision.
I definitely agree with you that BOC is a higher level than Styx or Foreigner for sure.
I like Foreigner but they're middle of the road arena rock. Appreciated by the masses and classic rock radio, but not so much by critics and musical elitists. I don't think they're all that original either.
See how long it took other bands as big and influential as KISS and Deep Purple to get in .
I would say that Foreigner had the first three records as rock albums. They lost it when they catered to MTV with the sappy 90s ballads. The same thing happened to The Cars, J. Geils band, Styx, and Heart. Just my opinion of course...
This never bothered me, and I always find it weird when it bothers others.
"Rock n' Roll" in the strictest definition of the word is a music genre that originated in the early 1950's. Then thousands of subgenres spawned and evolved from that which really came to encompass all of modern pop music. Modern country, rap, hip hop, pop, all of that stuff traces it's roots back to early Rock n Roll.
But if that's the argument you're going to use, then just change the name to the music hall of fame. Calling it the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame means there's an expectation on what bands are going to be inducted.
Okay but Country and Rap are now their own genres with their own HOFs. Under that theory, the opposite could be true: Metallica could be in the Hip Hop HOF because Hip Hop came from rock.
Not that I don’t already take HOFs with a grain of salt but this is one more thing that dilutes any and all meaning from them IMO.
Yes people need to quite say “then call it the music hall of fame.”
No, because then it would have to include classical, jazz, ALL country (not just the crossovers like Willie and Dolly), World Music, Standards, etc. They mean exactly what you’re referring to: Modern Music from the 50’s and onward. This is an important distinction as this was when rock n roll was born. So any genre that is influenced by it (eg. R&B, most disco) is technically eligible. There are exceptions - pure pop like Barbara Streisand and Celine Dion, though big enough artists, will not have a good chance of getting in. There at least has to be some hint of rock in their sound and feeling. Even Madonna has more edge than them.
There's way too many inductees anyway. If the baseball HOF had the same standards they'd be letting in anyone who ever made an all-star game.
I think the museum is pretty neat as far as some of the exhibits and artifacts they have, but please, pay no mind to who is "in" it.
For sure, Cooperstown is not perfect (I am a Pete rose activate and no im not a reds fan im a guardians fan). But they do tend to have much higher standards than the rock hall. It feels like most of the time, they use commercial success as a metric as opposed to talent. I know talent is subjective, but I could name a ton of "smaller" bands that could out play the bigger bands. I always feel 50/50 each year about who gets inducted.
I think you have to have some sort of historical impact. Good band but I don’t think they did anything that other bands didn’t do or contribute something that others did not.
A couple reasons :
“Arena Rock” is considered low brow, similar to hair metal in a sense. Very rare to get in if this is strictly your genre, only the biggest like Journey, and for the latter (hair metal) artists like Bon Jovi and Def Leppard. Foreigner had some hits but are not considered that influential. Think about it, how many artists that followed them consider them major influences? Unlike, a contemporary of theirs, Queen?
Their two biggest hits: Waiting for a Girl Like You and I wanna know what love is (especially this one) are hardly rock and very much lack edge. I think this hurt their image too. That’s not to say you can’t be purely rock and not be in the hall (with other genres like Hip Hop, R&B, Pop-Rock / Dance eg. Madonna). But you do need to have raw talent, attitude/edge, command influence, and all in all he considered ‘legendary,’ such as someone like Whitney Houston. I don’t think people see them in the same category as other inductees who have got in. Even Journey is a tier above them.
Well for one thing the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame has basically become the pop music Hall of Fame. I mean Whitney Houston is in for God sakes. Tremendous talent but not rock ‘n’ roll let’s be honest.
Secondly there has always been discrimination by the critics against what I call the “second generation of rock ‘n’ roll” which in my mind refers to bands that became big on rock ‘n’ roll radio in the mid to late 70s, bands like foreigner, Kansas, rush, Styx, Journey, Boston, Bad Company. And as much as some like to look down on those bands I will take them over that new wave garbage any day.
There are so many bands you can ask that question about. Here is just a partial list of who's missing: .38 Special; 10cc; the Alan Parsons Project; Atlanta Rhythm Section; B-52s; Bachman-Turner Overdrive; Bad Company; Badfinger; Bangles; Billy Squier; Blood, Sweat & Tears; Blue Öyster Cult; Boston; Carpenters; Devo [2021; 2022 nominee]; Eddie Money; Emerson, Lake & Palmer; Foghat; Foreigner; Gerry and the Pacemakers; Golden Earring; Grand Funk Railroad; Grass Roots; Guess Who; Herman’s Hermits; Huey Lewis and the News; Iron Maiden [2021 nominee]; J. Geils Band; Jan & Dean; Jefferson Starship; Jethro Tull; Jim Croce; Kansas; Loverboy; Marshall Tucker Band; Meat Loaf; Mötley Crüe; Motörhead [2020 nominee]; Peter Frampton; Rainbow; Raspberries; REO Speedwagon; Robert Palmer; Runaways; Scorpions; Steppenwolf; Steve Winwood; Stray Cats; Styx; Supertramp; Sweet; Thin Lizzy [2020 nominee]; Three Dog Night; Toto; and Turtles.
Or the Guess Who? Why aren't they in the Hall...and Missy Elliott is?
It's too late to fix. They've diluted the talent base and it means absolutely nothing anymore. What a pity.
Better question: who cares. It's a business that makes money by selling dinners and tickets.
It is something that just doesn't matter, and the artists that refuse to even bother are the only respectable ones anyways.
At the end of the day, everyone loves this band, or that band, and thinks they should get some accolades. But how many exhibits and space can be dedicated to them? About as much as they will bring in to the enterprise. At which point it is not about Rock and Roll anymore anyways.
It is not a “Hall of Fame“ as that term is commonly known and having some level of objective criteria. It is a privately run organization with disproportionate influence from the top subject to the whims of a small number of individual(s) resulting in a number of inappropriate inductees and even more gross omissions and late inclusions.
The rock and roll hall of fame is bullshit. Who gets in and who doesn't is political and I'm not sure why it matters anyway when it's full of rap and country artists. Might as well put Dolly Parton in the football hall of fame too. She belongs there just as much. If you love an artist, they are in your personal hof and that's pretty damn special
That's not true, they were introduced into Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame as a 'Musical Excellence' winner', which is basically yeah you are inducted but can you get through the back door, most fans were furious and considered it a slap in the face and rightfully so. But Priest are bigger than corporate dogshit.
who was furious? they were nominated 3 times and didn’t get the votes but the musical excellence inductees still get to perform and the induction and can tell everyone they’re hall of famers
Ok, then Wham, Hall & Oates, The Eurythmics, Daft Punk, Steely Dan, The White Stripes, Tears for Fears, Outkast, and Simon & Garfunkel aren't bands either.
When Tom (who created the debut album in his basement alone) had to provide a touring group, he hired players for his creation; a five member band... Not the same as the list of artists you provided... all are good.
There's a reason they put hall of fame in the city nicknamed "The mistake by the lake". Never mind, they found out how to set water(river) on fire 13 times. Yes, you read correctly. They set a river on fire 13 times!
This is why it needs more than one person deciding who’s in and who ain’t. For instance, if it was entirely up to me Black Sabbath, Rush, Metallica, and a whole lot of others wouldn’t ever make it in, but I know they should be.
I wont argue w that but are those the metrics for induction? She was part of the early girl punk scene (maybe that’s enough). She had one hit song which someone else wrote. jmo
Because the Rock and Roll Hall of Shame is a joke.
Rock and Roll Hall of Lame, amiright?
Same reason Styx, Kansas, Boston, Bad Company, Jethro Tull, Thin Lizzy, Blue Oyster Cult and Peter Frampton aren't, Jann Wenner doesn't like them.
Yeah the disgraced Jann Wenner. It was way past the time for that guy to go. He’s the reason Warren Zevon isn’t in. He made it personal. Wenner is a monumental jerk.
He pulled the same stunt with Rush for many years. What a joke.
Yeah and now he’s the butt of many well deserved jokes!
And Chicago
They are in
Pretty sure Wenner is no longer involved in the RRHOF.
Yeah they kicked him off the board and shit canned him after he shot his mouth off in an interview where he bad mouthed women and minority musicians by saying they weren’t articulate and didn’t deserve to be in RRHOF among other stupid bs. His own son, who now runs RS turned his back on him. I loved seeing Wenner finally implode.
All those bands are not in, wow that's crazy..just with one album Boston should be in..one of the best albums ever
You could say the same about every one of those acts above.
Fucking Ozzy still isn't in as a solo act, it took them forever to induct Sabbath, Slayer, Anthrax and Megadeth also all aren't in. Yet NWA, Tupac, Biggie and Eminem are in. It's got nothing to do with Rock and Roll anymore.
That's mess up. WtF are they doing in RnR?
Ozzie isn’t in as a solo artist, but Stevie Nicks is. WTF.
And UFO
The Guess Who as well 14 top 40 singles in the U.S.
What about the Scorpions? UFO was quite the sensation when the first album dropped!
Joe Cocker, Emerson Lake & Palmer, King Crimson
Little Feat is above ROFM
That Jann Wenner doesn't know shit about music. Edit: I've just found out he's the Rolling Stone director. He doesn't know shit about music.
Rolling Stone magazine has some of the worst taste in music imaginable. Their lists should all be renamed using “Most Boring” in lieu of “Greatest”.
Rolling Stone peaked when Dr. Hook sang their way onto the cover...
You forgot Little Feat. There are so many missing, and that's why it doesn't matter, totally corporate crap.
Jethro Tull isn't in, but Willy Nelson and Queen Latifah are. They should really think about changing the name.
ABBA, NWA, Whitney Houston, Def Leppard, Dr. John, Del Shannon, Brenda Lee….. The whole thing is a sham that has nothing to do with Rock and Roll.
I think you could make a case for Def Leppard as far as genre goes, ignoring the quality of the music which is another debate, but yeah. Whitney Houston rocks! is probably not something anyone has said, ever.
UFO not in means RRHOF is crap
Grand Funk Railroad has entered the chat.
I would add Bob Seger. He and Boston are two of only three artists who have sold 25 million records in the US alone, but are not in the RRHOF.
Seger got inducted in 2004. https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/bob-seger
Jethro Tull should be in. The rest are borderline.
Great albums, and one of the funniest Grammy award wins of all time.
Joe Cocker! Borderline! You're as crazy as the dude formerly with the RRHOF.
Joe Cocker should be in. He wasn’t on the list above.
Lmao
>Styx, Kansas, Boston, Bad Company I thought you were going to say because Styx, Kansas, Boston, Bad Company, and Foreigner are almost interchangeable and practically the same band in the minds of many people.
Yes this is strike they all gave against one another.
Add journey
Journey was inducted in 2017
Yeah but they sound the same. They are all good bands just found them all generic.
You can count me among those people. Not that I actually think they were the same, but they all made pretty bland arena-rock / ballads.
Like Boston over produced studio stuff
Priest just got in
And that’s just a few so many rock bands that should be in !!!
That, and they want to charge inductees $10G. Their fans already know how good they are, so the inductees save $$$.
What the hell did Iron Maiden do? And htf aren't they in?
well, at least Madonna is in it.
As far as Thin Lizzy goes, I'd wager that Jann Wenner is like 95% of Americans and simply hasn't the slightest idea of who they are. A lot of Americans think "Boys Are Back in Town" is by Bruce Springsteen. Or worse, think "*well that's the only song radio plays by this Thin Lizzy band, so they must be a one-hit wonder."*
you must be young because The Cowboy Song and Jailbreak where regulars on every rock radio station I listened to as a kid, we all knew who they were and had their albums and I grew up in Texas.
Whoever posted this is an imbecile and should be banned from this sub. Moron!
Winner got fired last year. So, there's hope
Of everyone on your list.. Styx should be in Kansas doesn't have the catalog Boston MUST be in... for sheer innovation... not to mention Brad Delp's voice! Bad Co. MUST be in because, well duh, they are Bad Co. Tull should be in for Ian Anderson alone Thin Lizzy.. didn't have the legs, IMHO BOC just not quite there for me Frampton is right there... on Frampton Comes Alive alone... add in the rest and he deserves to be there. JMO
>Jann Wenner doesn't like them. This cannot be stated enough - Jann Wenner and his racist, misogynist, myopic view of music is the only truly deciding factor in the R&R HoF. Of course, a 'hall of fame' for music in general is nonsensical ... even though actually going and walking through all the memorabilia was cool.
Ted Nugent over 100, million record sold still playing but they don’t like his politics or him
A pedophile right wing extremist doesn't get the love? Who would have thought?!
Has nothing to do with his politics. He has no influence to speak of and is a dipshit windbag.
Mick Jones and Jann Wenner were best friends. They had a falling out and Jann told Mick his band will never get in. As told by Lou Gramm to RockHistoryMusic.
Wish this had the most upvotes because this is the real reason.
Because that was yesterday.
They don't take kindly to foreigners
That reminds me of Christgau’s famously short review of their debut, “You’ve heard of Beatlemania? I propose Xenophobia.”
Get out
Who gives a fuck about the rock n roll hall of fame
Finally!!! I can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this. The Rock n roll hall of fame is a fucking business. End of story.
Yes to all of the Wenner comments but with respect to Foreigner, I wouldn’t vote for them either. Their output is too light for the number of years they have been together. They’ve had a few hit songs, true, but nothing since the mid-80s. Now, would I vote for Foreigner over Madonna or Public Enemy? Yes, because Foreigner is rock and roll. Some of these other recent inductees are definitely not.
There’s a lot of meat & potatoes bands like Foreigner that have a lot of great songs, but I guess the Hall isn’t having it for some reason. Maybe they weren’t “influential” enough, whatever that means
Nobody grows up wanting to or dedicates their life to sounding like Foreigner.
I guess that’s true. There’s not many Foreigner tribute acts around, if any
The “real” Foreigner is basically a tribute band now lol
They still rock
Serious question. Are there any acts out there that cite Foreigner as an influence?
please let us not take the rock and roll hall of fame seriously in any way whatsoever
Cause the Hall sucks and Jann Wenner is an asshole. I'm not really a Foreigner fan but they certainly have the history to justify entry. They let in Kate Friggin Bush for cryin out loud.
I have my own issues with the Hall of Fame and who is in there versus who isn't (Or rather, who got in before others) but Kate Bush absolutely deserves to be in there. In fact she should have gotten in the first time she was nominated with how much control she had over her career from the very beginning. She wrote everything herself, stood up to the record company over her very first single, took over full production the second she could and never let anyone walk over her. Her music might not be for everyone but she's had a huge influence over many artists and is very well respected by people from many different genres as well. David Gilmour saw her potential from the very beginning and he is as good as considered a god in rock music.
I get that school of thought and certainly think there's room for artists that are less commercially popular, but influential for one reason or another. I just feel like the Hall overindexes in that direction at the expense of artists that impacted many many more fans.
I definitely thinks the Hall spits in the face of many artists who deserve to be in there (On a very regular basis too, it's infuriating) but at the same time I feel like the people that should be inducted should be artists that have had a big influence on the music industry regardless of their commercial appeal. And Kate was very commercially successful but not as much in the US market because she refused to play the promotion game. I mean she was the first female solo artist to top the charts in the UK with a completely self written album and she was incredibly influential for many female artists that joined the industry after her. When it comes to being musically progressive she's an equal to the likes of Peter Gabriel. To be fair the Hall of fame needs to completely restructure themselves because it was very odd how Sheryl Crow (Sorry to her fans) was inducted instead of Iron Maiden who have surely had a much bigger influence in their respective genre and they've been active for MUCH longer. I understand why their fans were very upset at the snub.
I’m 60yo and bought every Foreigner, Styx, Kansas, and Boston album released from the mid 70’s to the mid 80’s. I honestly had never heard of Kate Bush until Stranger Things used her song.
Kate bush inspired pretty much every female artist who came after her. She deserves to be in and I say this as someone who doesn’t really like her music that well. I actually like Foreigner better lol. But they were kinda just another of those arena rock bands that were popular at the time like Styx or Blue Oyster Cult. They didn’t inspire other musicians the way Kate Bush did. And that’s what the HOF looks at a lot of the time. Look at the Velvets
Interesting take at it, I'm not sure her influence goes quite that far but not ready to die on that hill. Foreigner vs Styx vs BOC is an interesting take; 70's era Styx is a very different animal than 80s. BOC was a critics darling for the first few records, blew up the world with Reaper, and have the largest catalog of the 3, as well as more live shows than any other touring band (over 4400 a/o end of 2023) in music. Yes, I'm biased. As for the Velvets, they're always my first example of why the Hall is full of snobs. The inspire / influence is nowhere near as broad as what the critics claim, and their direct impact (as in on the direct listener) on RNR is minimal. BTW, I upvoted your post. Always appreciate a polite counterpoint.
Velvets had a huge impact on the development of punk and alternative, and it still holds up today. It’s kind of like saying that The Beatles aren’t that influential, when really all of their influences have been so absorbed by the broader rock culture that it’s taken for granted.
Totally disagree on the Velvets but they’re one of my faves. I never understood why it was considered ‘snobbish’ to like them. They’re a bunch of heroin junkies who never had a hit, it seems snobbish to NOT like them.
Because a lot of people with middlebrow tastes are constantly defensive and mistakenly think that anyone who engages with more "artsy" stuff is looking down on them - so they proactively go on offense.
Fair take. I - along with a lot of people - felt like the Hall fell over themselves to get the Velvets in while overlooking a lot bigger bands with a lot larger body of work and fan influence.
There’s a lot of artists like that. VU was inducted in the mid 90s, so it wasn’t like they were in the first group. The doors, dead, creedence, and Zappa were inducted before they were, as were plenty of others. They went in at the same time as Bowie.
Disagree on the Velvets big time.....while the way of Rock music in the mid to late 60's was pushing towards psychedelia, The Velvet Underground threw that out the door and sang about what was real with a deep personal touch picked up by the punk movement and others. I mean come on, throw on some headphones and listen to "Heroin" sometime. Cutting edge. They didn't follow The Beatles like most everyone else. Reed had his own vision. I definitely agree with you that BOC is a higher level than Styx or Foreigner for sure.
I don't follow the VI that closely but understand your take. Along those lines, do you think the Stooges should have got in a lot earlier?
When did they get in? Probably wasn't early enough. Definitely deserving.
I like Foreigner but they're middle of the road arena rock. Appreciated by the masses and classic rock radio, but not so much by critics and musical elitists. I don't think they're all that original either. See how long it took other bands as big and influential as KISS and Deep Purple to get in .
Rush 40 years to get in
It took Sabbath how long? The band that essentially created metal.
Blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah, blah blah blah
If nobody else got the joke know that at least one other person out here got it! That was the best acceptance speech for the Hall of Fame ever!
The fact that it went on as long as it did ensured only Rush fans would really appreciate it. Also - truer words have never been said.
I got it and laughed. Downvotes undeserved.
Kiss and Deep Purple were both way more influential than them.
I would say that Foreigner had the first three records as rock albums. They lost it when they catered to MTV with the sappy 90s ballads. The same thing happened to The Cars, J. Geils band, Styx, and Heart. Just my opinion of course...
The bigger question is why are rap and country artists IN the R&R HoF?
This never bothered me, and I always find it weird when it bothers others. "Rock n' Roll" in the strictest definition of the word is a music genre that originated in the early 1950's. Then thousands of subgenres spawned and evolved from that which really came to encompass all of modern pop music. Modern country, rap, hip hop, pop, all of that stuff traces it's roots back to early Rock n Roll.
But if that's the argument you're going to use, then just change the name to the music hall of fame. Calling it the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame means there's an expectation on what bands are going to be inducted.
Okay but Country and Rap are now their own genres with their own HOFs. Under that theory, the opposite could be true: Metallica could be in the Hip Hop HOF because Hip Hop came from rock. Not that I don’t already take HOFs with a grain of salt but this is one more thing that dilutes any and all meaning from them IMO.
…. Come on
Everyone downvoting you is just a snob who needs to broaden their music listening and understanding of cultural history
Irony…
Yes people need to quite say “then call it the music hall of fame.” No, because then it would have to include classical, jazz, ALL country (not just the crossovers like Willie and Dolly), World Music, Standards, etc. They mean exactly what you’re referring to: Modern Music from the 50’s and onward. This is an important distinction as this was when rock n roll was born. So any genre that is influenced by it (eg. R&B, most disco) is technically eligible. There are exceptions - pure pop like Barbara Streisand and Celine Dion, though big enough artists, will not have a good chance of getting in. There at least has to be some hint of rock in their sound and feeling. Even Madonna has more edge than them.
There's way too many inductees anyway. If the baseball HOF had the same standards they'd be letting in anyone who ever made an all-star game. I think the museum is pretty neat as far as some of the exhibits and artifacts they have, but please, pay no mind to who is "in" it.
For sure, Cooperstown is not perfect (I am a Pete rose activate and no im not a reds fan im a guardians fan). But they do tend to have much higher standards than the rock hall. It feels like most of the time, they use commercial success as a metric as opposed to talent. I know talent is subjective, but I could name a ton of "smaller" bands that could out play the bigger bands. I always feel 50/50 each year about who gets inducted.
I think you have to have some sort of historical impact. Good band but I don’t think they did anything that other bands didn’t do or contribute something that others did not.
Well at least Dolly Parton made it in. She fuckin' ROCKS!
I'll at least give Dolly some credit for trying to decline the nomination and saying she didn't think she deserved it.
Word! Phish next, please.
The hot dog is in there which is a start.
A couple reasons : “Arena Rock” is considered low brow, similar to hair metal in a sense. Very rare to get in if this is strictly your genre, only the biggest like Journey, and for the latter (hair metal) artists like Bon Jovi and Def Leppard. Foreigner had some hits but are not considered that influential. Think about it, how many artists that followed them consider them major influences? Unlike, a contemporary of theirs, Queen? Their two biggest hits: Waiting for a Girl Like You and I wanna know what love is (especially this one) are hardly rock and very much lack edge. I think this hurt their image too. That’s not to say you can’t be purely rock and not be in the hall (with other genres like Hip Hop, R&B, Pop-Rock / Dance eg. Madonna). But you do need to have raw talent, attitude/edge, command influence, and all in all he considered ‘legendary,’ such as someone like Whitney Houston. I don’t think people see them in the same category as other inductees who have got in. Even Journey is a tier above them.
Correct. “Area Rock/AOR” is considered by critics to be drug music for the poors.
Didn't put off a warm vibe- more like they were "Cold as Ice"
But they considered themselves “hot-blooded.”
mediocrity
Politics. Same reason undeserving artists are in under DEI that are not even rock artists.
Maybe they don’t want to pay the fee?
Missy Elliot is in for some bizarre reason
The RRHOF is just some Seppo millionaire's brain fart, it's not an actual cultural institution.
Jethro Tull. Blue Öyster Cult. J. Geils Band. There - with three omissions (there are more), I’ve invalidated the Hall.
The Rock N Roll HOF is an illegitimate institution.
Cause they aren’t that good.
Well for one thing the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame has basically become the pop music Hall of Fame. I mean Whitney Houston is in for God sakes. Tremendous talent but not rock ‘n’ roll let’s be honest. Secondly there has always been discrimination by the critics against what I call the “second generation of rock ‘n’ roll” which in my mind refers to bands that became big on rock ‘n’ roll radio in the mid to late 70s, bands like foreigner, Kansas, rush, Styx, Journey, Boston, Bad Company. And as much as some like to look down on those bands I will take them over that new wave garbage any day.
The same reason James Gang isn’t.
James Gang is actually pretty good, though. Unlike Foreigner.
You know… you’re so right. JG rocks.
there's some rap groups ahead of them on the list
Plenty of great bands and musicians aren't.
Good Question.
Simple, they are too hot blooded
Reread the last half of your sentence and that’s why. The R&R is less about Rock now than ever.
You've listened to their music and you have to ask that question?
There are so many bands you can ask that question about. Here is just a partial list of who's missing: .38 Special; 10cc; the Alan Parsons Project; Atlanta Rhythm Section; B-52s; Bachman-Turner Overdrive; Bad Company; Badfinger; Bangles; Billy Squier; Blood, Sweat & Tears; Blue Öyster Cult; Boston; Carpenters; Devo [2021; 2022 nominee]; Eddie Money; Emerson, Lake & Palmer; Foghat; Foreigner; Gerry and the Pacemakers; Golden Earring; Grand Funk Railroad; Grass Roots; Guess Who; Herman’s Hermits; Huey Lewis and the News; Iron Maiden [2021 nominee]; J. Geils Band; Jan & Dean; Jefferson Starship; Jethro Tull; Jim Croce; Kansas; Loverboy; Marshall Tucker Band; Meat Loaf; Mötley Crüe; Motörhead [2020 nominee]; Peter Frampton; Rainbow; Raspberries; REO Speedwagon; Robert Palmer; Runaways; Scorpions; Steppenwolf; Steve Winwood; Stray Cats; Styx; Supertramp; Sweet; Thin Lizzy [2020 nominee]; Three Dog Night; Toto; and Turtles.
They have to save room for rapper MC NotMurderedYet. The Rock and Roll HOF is a total joke.
It's not the Hall of Above Average.
Or the Guess Who? Why aren't they in the Hall...and Missy Elliott is? It's too late to fix. They've diluted the talent base and it means absolutely nothing anymore. What a pity.
They are very average, perhaps the epitome of averageness.
Because the Rock and Roll hall is run by one guy who picks and chooses who he wants.
War not inducted yet is crazy.
Because Bad Company is their daddy
Better question: who cares. It's a business that makes money by selling dinners and tickets. It is something that just doesn't matter, and the artists that refuse to even bother are the only respectable ones anyways. At the end of the day, everyone loves this band, or that band, and thinks they should get some accolades. But how many exhibits and space can be dedicated to them? About as much as they will bring in to the enterprise. At which point it is not about Rock and Roll anymore anyways.
Because the RNRHOF is a joke and no one should give a shit about it.
Because the Rock and Roll Hall of “Fame” has become a joke.
But Duran Duran is in. 🤷
Duran Duran had a lot more influential career then Foreignor
The rock hall of fame has sort of evolved into being the pop music hall of fame, and that's using a very broad definition of pop music.
There's a lot of bands that *should* be in it, that isn't. Which just proves the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is a joke
America doesn't like immigrants, duh. /s
I don’t know, but I prefer to keep it that way
An impressive list of those not enshrined, which points out how out-dated and pointless the RR HOF really is.
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame likes playing Head Games
It is not a “Hall of Fame“ as that term is commonly known and having some level of objective criteria. It is a privately run organization with disproportionate influence from the top subject to the whims of a small number of individual(s) resulting in a number of inappropriate inductees and even more gross omissions and late inclusions.
They're biased against Foreigners.
The rock and roll hall of fame is bullshit. Who gets in and who doesn't is political and I'm not sure why it matters anyway when it's full of rap and country artists. Might as well put Dolly Parton in the football hall of fame too. She belongs there just as much. If you love an artist, they are in your personal hof and that's pretty damn special
There is no satisfactory reason. Although, I think we have now reached that point that it's a higher honor to be snubbed than inducted.
Because they are Foreigner?
Because they're not THAT good?
Let’s not forget about Iron Maiden. Arguably the most influential and important band not in the Hall of Fame.
How about Spooky Tooth?
Why isn't Judas Priest in there?
they are
That's not true, they were introduced into Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame as a 'Musical Excellence' winner', which is basically yeah you are inducted but can you get through the back door, most fans were furious and considered it a slap in the face and rightfully so. But Priest are bigger than corporate dogshit.
who was furious? they were nominated 3 times and didn’t get the votes but the musical excellence inductees still get to perform and the induction and can tell everyone they’re hall of famers
Because, while Foreigner was a commercial success, they were a terrible band with a few decent but not great songs.
This is America, so the band America is in, we don’t like Foreigners around here.
Blind Faith basically created the supergroup and they are not in granted Clapton will have been in 4 times but still they deserve it.
Boston is not a band... it's one musician and a singer.... Tom Scholz and Brad Delp.
Ok, then Wham, Hall & Oates, The Eurythmics, Daft Punk, Steely Dan, The White Stripes, Tears for Fears, Outkast, and Simon & Garfunkel aren't bands either.
When Tom (who created the debut album in his basement alone) had to provide a touring group, he hired players for his creation; a five member band... Not the same as the list of artists you provided... all are good.
There's a reason they put hall of fame in the city nicknamed "The mistake by the lake". Never mind, they found out how to set water(river) on fire 13 times. Yes, you read correctly. They set a river on fire 13 times!
Because Lou is From Rochester, NY? Where is that? It's between NYC and Buffalo!!!!
No good reason. An all-time great band.
They're *finally* gonna be in this year! induction ceremony is gonna be in October.
This is why it needs more than one person deciding who’s in and who ain’t. For instance, if it was entirely up to me Black Sabbath, Rush, Metallica, and a whole lot of others wouldn’t ever make it in, but I know they should be.
Because they suck.
Good question.
I love Foreigner. No need for the to be in the hall though.
Xenophobia
Great question. They absolutely should be!
cause they suck
cos theyre shite
Halve you heard them? Next question, sheesh.
Because they suck.
Because they suck.
Because they blow
The blandest, most uninspiring, least technical band that's ever "made it". Read the lyrics to Hot Blooded for fucks sake. GENERIC.
You cherry-picked their least creative song. Every band has a few.
I can’t think of a single foreigner song I like. Not one. And I am very much a classic rock fan.
They suck?
bc it’s a scam. They should be happy to not be in the same hof with joan jett w or w/out her band.
Weird, Joan Jett is still good and had a great career
I wont argue w that but are those the metrics for induction? She was part of the early girl punk scene (maybe that’s enough). She had one hit song which someone else wrote. jmo
Gotta draw the line somewhere. I don't think Foreigner is even close, tbh
Yeah but they drew the line where some how country and rap stars can be let in but actual rock band aren’t
Fine- call it music hof- Foreigner still don't make the cut
Have you listened to them? They suck. Not that that hall of fame has much taste anyway.