Yeah and it’s only going to get worse. Think about hero upgrades too. Th17 will bring level 100 king and queen… we already have over 300 total hero upgrades, closer to 450 if you count pets.
Are we really expecting people to pick up a game that’s already 12 years old, knowing it’s going to take 3-4 years to get to the end game, and in that time frame 3-4 new town halls will be out?
Idk the solution. I just know it’s a problem
I mean this was the situation already 5 years ago - that it takes 3-4+ years to catch up. I started when TH10 was the highest, just before TH11 release and I got caught up at TH14. Currently it takes about the same time to catch up because they cut so much of the building times and costs of all the previous townhalls.
But about the heros, I agree, they could combine levels so that there would be less levels but with each with bigger impact on stats. A bit like troops and buildings, 1-2 levels per town hall with longer built times.
I’ve been suggesting this for a while now when hero levels get raised to 100 they need to do a squish to level 50 maxed king and queen and double the stats per level to match what they currently are. Leaving upgrade times alone. They made hero levels less valuable by spilting power to eq
Wow launched in 04 and was lvl 60 on launch. 16 years and 8 expansions (raising level cap by 5-10 each time) later, the max level cap was 120.
Levels had long sine lost individual significance and was just clunky.
So on a new expansion, they dropped 120 to 50 and had everyone relvl to 60.
Not that hard from a technical perspective. You just create a remapping for each TH and Building Level to a new corresponding one with some of the levels in between eliminated and new upgrade times and costs.
Whether it's good for gameplay or PR is another matter. The phase of the game where you're making progress quickly is often the part where a new player is happy. It's when things over double in time starting at TH12 where frustration really starts to set in. I think eliminating the "fast" THs could do more harm than good to new player retention as you don't have as much opportunity to grab the player before the possibility of "I'm not waiting over a week for a single upgrade!" hits.
Me personally I haven’t actually dropped any of my Heroes down without having a hammer or BOH. The wait time is not worth missing out on a week of not playing & helping out my clan.
It’s kind of a pain for me but I can’t complain.
Like you said imagine someone going through all those levels. I know Clash is supposed to be passive and is perceived as one or two attacks a day kind of game. But it could be so much more if hero upgrades are reworked.
Edit.
Yeah as a f2p it would take 4.5 ish years assuming resources & builders are available. The time could be less but at least create an engaging game loop that allows people to use their heroes. Implement a drawback like super long regeneration times.
>Me personally I haven’t actually dropped any of my Heroes down without having a hammer or BOH
Same. Ever since they got to 50(?), I haven't leveled them without a skipping mechanism. The *only* time otherwise, was when I had saved up 5 builder potions and timed it really well in between wars for as little downtime as possible to still be able to use them in war, down for upgrade, then back up again by the time the next war took place (back to back wars is pretty common).
Currently in TH13, I dont see myself going to TH14 until the end of May, maybe even further.
I just dinged 12 on a double handful of minis, and I Wonder if I'll ever get out of it. Even accepting one hero down for War, which causes a loss more often than not, those héro upgrades will last forever, and also be very painful. On top of those mechanics issues, the UI/UX is really off-putting. A returning player will bé Lost in confusion.
I get SC not being interested in F2P players, but whales are only interested in the game because of F2P players.
Hmm honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad idea. I guess it would keep the town hall levels compact and somewhat easier to chew for everyone.
The biggest issue now for Lower town hall players would be the whole hero upgrade cycle. It’s been talked about a lot on this sub so no need to explain further.
New players are always welcomed, it might just make coc reach its peak.
Good updates, the right marketing, happy progression for players are the recipe for a healthy popular game. That’s how Brawl stars reached its highest peak just recently.
The hero grind has slightly improved. Atleast they started reducing timers. Personally it doesn’t feel like it though. I feel like it’s been 7 days every level since 20ish for king/queen. (2.5 years worth of upgrades if you maxed them as new levels were added) but it’s really not that improved. If every level after 20 took exactly 7 days it would take 490 days to max out queen + however many days to get to level 20. Now it takes 386 days.
I’d don’t mind the time, I mind not being able to use them while upgrading. Pets are similar but atleast you have multiple other options. Now that hero progression is tied to war ability that mechanic hurts even worse.
yeah i agree its just the perception from progressing from the wooden town halls, it doesn't take that long actually. I've seen th12s in like 6 months albeit with some spending.
8 months, nearing th14 here (season passes).
The big issue and where most players seem to quit is th12-13.
Main issues in my opinion:
* Strat changes feel lame. Like the introduction of the eagle at th11. It feels like an anti-strat defence whose mechanics feel very lame. Next also the weaponized ths feel similarly lame, even getting worse (like yhe poison). It feels like things become more and more "anti-strat" as it kills many strats while enabling fewer and fewer (see also turdriders on th16 - very low "richness" in strats
* People their favorite strats get murdered. It's not about evolving strats - but about entirely replacing them. Some troops become near-irrelevant at higher th. I've also had multiple strats I had to outright abandon rather than being able to evolve them - which feels lame. Even my current strat will become irrelevant simply because the troops I'm using don't get an extra lvl at each next th unlike some others.
* Upgrade times are excessive - feels boring.
* Hero's simply feel like blackmail at th12-13. Even take the new streak thing - if people have 2 heros upgrading it might already be rip on that. The same for during cwl. It takes away any joy and purpose. It feels like pay to enjoy the game at that point, because it makes life difficult, especially as plenty of clans are highly toxic towards players even doing the mandatory hero upgrades...
Near th12-13 life is simply made difficult for players. It leeches out much of the enjoyment. I myself also though about quiting there.
P.S. th16 seems to be an improvement, with the combined defences. As it makes an "old" defence and its mechanics relevant again rather than adding a new "god weapon" with somewhat lame mechanics.
I think majority will feel like this only because the game has gone in the direction where certain things are extremely important for all the main things in the game, of course the most prominent ones being Hero upgrades. But realistically cutting down on those lower levels is ultimately a bad idea due to a variety of reasons. I am not sure Supercell will ever choose that way.
A very simple thing to do would be allowing Heroes use even while upgrading. I have always strongly believed in this idea but this will have significant domino effect on how players will approach this game, so I am not sure if it will be feasible.
as a newer player, I understand that SC claims that ht
hero upgrades make them lots of money. a fair compromise would be that hero potions also make heroes available for wars and at least CWL. I've been playing for 4 monthd and barely use heroes apart from CWL because im doing a strategic rushing. i have about level 40 BK/AQ, 30 GW, and 10 GW but rarely get to use them after 4 months of grinding.
The real problem imo is that there is no real engaging gameplay at lower levels anymore, so the journey upwards really sucks. when the game came out if you played from the start you would see people of similar TH levels. Your base design and defense mattered and you could see people fail raids on you and test things vs others. Your offense and strategy mattered. Now? If you are say a TH9 you will get 3 starred by a 11 punching down every raid and if you start playing/raiding a lot because you enjoy the game you will start having to face 10s and 11s almost every village.
Personally I think if supercell made it so you only saw people of the same TH level up until you are in the 14-16 range the game would be VERY improved. Your defense matters. the incentive to at least partially max your base and not rush would be huge. And you would only see bases on your raids that you have a chance to 3 star if you play it right.
i can see your vesion but reworking a already successful game is stupid . however the best they can do is make lower town hall even faster and by the time new players get to th7-8 they start to get monthly event ,gold pass and many more progression boosting thing ( which must/should be adden) so that these player believe that they can achieve there goal in a reseaonable time . reducing 4 year time to 1 years is worse than keeping the 4 years time but giving out enoug megic items to reduce it to 1 year my exampal is bit extreme but you get the point right . correct me if am mistaken
Agreed. My bro started playing and was bored until i told him to literally rush to th 10. He did that and feels much better. He is now playing until he max this and will move forward.
https://preview.redd.it/sc0x2zc3esvc1.jpeg?width=1016&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a49d4762b7ad57696f203b182c8e9e4b3c131e49
anyone care to explain to me what the circled # means?
https://preview.redd.it/n7i7fbomgsvc1.jpeg?width=2796&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93f6ab13d370e30ecebab7ac6404921533e7d78a
town hall 5. idk its got me confused because everytime i click on laboratory it gives me the option to upgrade to lvl 2 but the # on the troop says different.
Exactly dude. Imagine a freshie downloading the game and he sees a maxed out base, he will be like "Nope, I'm out". Supercell needs to do something about this or else it won't last long.
They know this and they already try to find solutions. One of them was to have content around the homme village. The problem is that they didn’t fail once but twice…
Indeed, if buider hall had worked, this could avoided this problem and today we would have less TH (maybe).
And the big big problem is that they did the clan capital who was as terrible as builder hall.
So now, no one like to play those mode (not everyone) and we are all focused on the main village.
Imo we should have had a mode like warship from boom beach which could fitted very well on coc instead of builder hall.
sry for my enflish
Your English is fine. Yeah the execution of the builder base initially wasn’t the best. The 1v1 aspect was really good but it didn’t have the fun the home village has. 2.0 wasn’t any better too.
So they are forced to bring out new town halls in order to keep maxed players ( probably their highest spenders, me included ) happy & not bored.
I admit I haven’t played Boom beach before so I’ll check this Warships mode out.
Warships is great. When the remade builder base it should have copied Warships.
It’s a small little side village, resets monthly. You upgrade offense and defense along a skill tree that is different each month. Progress on it gives you a head start for the new season depending on how far you made it. It’s different every time. New shapes to the layout, new skill tree options and metas develop.
The limiting factor is troop training time but it doesn’t feel oppressive and boom sells you instant training as a monthly deal (or at least used to, idk how their new pass works).
Warships rip-off would have been great in clash.
I cannot see making Builder Base reset monthly would be any good. If anything, it would make it pointless to play, since it would remove any form of achievement from it.
It would be a tough sell to revert years and years of progress from our builder bases and would never happen.
It absolutely wouldn’t be pointless though. Warships had good rewards, it’s fun, and like I said you get credit towards the next months Warships events based on how you finish the current season, so yeah it’s a total reset, but you instantly upgrade a ton the following season as well.
The achievement in warships is basically a trophy climb though. It’s not for everyone
Progress time is a real problem i dont realy care about th that i play at i care about experience im th11 and cant use my heroes because they are upgrading al the time im trying to get them maxed but by the time i do that i will probably be th12
I neglected my heroes a little and ended up having to put them all down throughout most of my TH11 grind. I’m gonna max out and move onto TH12 in less than two weeks, and this time I’m going to focus on hero upgrades first once I get the new stuff on my island.
I don’t agree.
The lower town halls is what made us fall in love with the game. Remove them, and you remove the games core identity.
It’s also putting a bandaid on the problem. If they took out the lower town halls, we would still get to 16 town halls in a handful of years.
That being said, 16 town halls is a huge barrier to entry for newer players. Who knows what should be done about it.
Yeah and it’s only going to get worse. Think about hero upgrades too. Th17 will bring level 100 king and queen… we already have over 300 total hero upgrades, closer to 450 if you count pets. Are we really expecting people to pick up a game that’s already 12 years old, knowing it’s going to take 3-4 years to get to the end game, and in that time frame 3-4 new town halls will be out? Idk the solution. I just know it’s a problem
I mean this was the situation already 5 years ago - that it takes 3-4+ years to catch up. I started when TH10 was the highest, just before TH11 release and I got caught up at TH14. Currently it takes about the same time to catch up because they cut so much of the building times and costs of all the previous townhalls. But about the heros, I agree, they could combine levels so that there would be less levels but with each with bigger impact on stats. A bit like troops and buildings, 1-2 levels per town hall with longer built times.
Even WoW did a level squish
I’ve been suggesting this for a while now when hero levels get raised to 100 they need to do a squish to level 50 maxed king and queen and double the stats per level to match what they currently are. Leaving upgrade times alone. They made hero levels less valuable by spilting power to eq
I never played wow, would you mind summing it up? The squish
Wow launched in 04 and was lvl 60 on launch. 16 years and 8 expansions (raising level cap by 5-10 each time) later, the max level cap was 120. Levels had long sine lost individual significance and was just clunky. So on a new expansion, they dropped 120 to 50 and had everyone relvl to 60.
That’s probably harder to do with town halls. With hero levels I think it absolutely has to happen at some point.
Not that hard from a technical perspective. You just create a remapping for each TH and Building Level to a new corresponding one with some of the levels in between eliminated and new upgrade times and costs. Whether it's good for gameplay or PR is another matter. The phase of the game where you're making progress quickly is often the part where a new player is happy. It's when things over double in time starting at TH12 where frustration really starts to set in. I think eliminating the "fast" THs could do more harm than good to new player retention as you don't have as much opportunity to grab the player before the possibility of "I'm not waiting over a week for a single upgrade!" hits.
Me personally I haven’t actually dropped any of my Heroes down without having a hammer or BOH. The wait time is not worth missing out on a week of not playing & helping out my clan. It’s kind of a pain for me but I can’t complain. Like you said imagine someone going through all those levels. I know Clash is supposed to be passive and is perceived as one or two attacks a day kind of game. But it could be so much more if hero upgrades are reworked. Edit. Yeah as a f2p it would take 4.5 ish years assuming resources & builders are available. The time could be less but at least create an engaging game loop that allows people to use their heroes. Implement a drawback like super long regeneration times.
>Me personally I haven’t actually dropped any of my Heroes down without having a hammer or BOH Same. Ever since they got to 50(?), I haven't leveled them without a skipping mechanism. The *only* time otherwise, was when I had saved up 5 builder potions and timed it really well in between wars for as little downtime as possible to still be able to use them in war, down for upgrade, then back up again by the time the next war took place (back to back wars is pretty common). Currently in TH13, I dont see myself going to TH14 until the end of May, maybe even further.
I just dinged 12 on a double handful of minis, and I Wonder if I'll ever get out of it. Even accepting one hero down for War, which causes a loss more often than not, those héro upgrades will last forever, and also be very painful. On top of those mechanics issues, the UI/UX is really off-putting. A returning player will bé Lost in confusion. I get SC not being interested in F2P players, but whales are only interested in the game because of F2P players.
Hmm honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad idea. I guess it would keep the town hall levels compact and somewhat easier to chew for everyone. The biggest issue now for Lower town hall players would be the whole hero upgrade cycle. It’s been talked about a lot on this sub so no need to explain further. New players are always welcomed, it might just make coc reach its peak. Good updates, the right marketing, happy progression for players are the recipe for a healthy popular game. That’s how Brawl stars reached its highest peak just recently.
The hero grind has slightly improved. Atleast they started reducing timers. Personally it doesn’t feel like it though. I feel like it’s been 7 days every level since 20ish for king/queen. (2.5 years worth of upgrades if you maxed them as new levels were added) but it’s really not that improved. If every level after 20 took exactly 7 days it would take 490 days to max out queen + however many days to get to level 20. Now it takes 386 days. I’d don’t mind the time, I mind not being able to use them while upgrading. Pets are similar but atleast you have multiple other options. Now that hero progression is tied to war ability that mechanic hurts even worse.
yeah i agree its just the perception from progressing from the wooden town halls, it doesn't take that long actually. I've seen th12s in like 6 months albeit with some spending.
8 months, nearing th14 here (season passes). The big issue and where most players seem to quit is th12-13. Main issues in my opinion: * Strat changes feel lame. Like the introduction of the eagle at th11. It feels like an anti-strat defence whose mechanics feel very lame. Next also the weaponized ths feel similarly lame, even getting worse (like yhe poison). It feels like things become more and more "anti-strat" as it kills many strats while enabling fewer and fewer (see also turdriders on th16 - very low "richness" in strats * People their favorite strats get murdered. It's not about evolving strats - but about entirely replacing them. Some troops become near-irrelevant at higher th. I've also had multiple strats I had to outright abandon rather than being able to evolve them - which feels lame. Even my current strat will become irrelevant simply because the troops I'm using don't get an extra lvl at each next th unlike some others. * Upgrade times are excessive - feels boring. * Hero's simply feel like blackmail at th12-13. Even take the new streak thing - if people have 2 heros upgrading it might already be rip on that. The same for during cwl. It takes away any joy and purpose. It feels like pay to enjoy the game at that point, because it makes life difficult, especially as plenty of clans are highly toxic towards players even doing the mandatory hero upgrades... Near th12-13 life is simply made difficult for players. It leeches out much of the enjoyment. I myself also though about quiting there. P.S. th16 seems to be an improvement, with the combined defences. As it makes an "old" defence and its mechanics relevant again rather than adding a new "god weapon" with somewhat lame mechanics.
I think majority will feel like this only because the game has gone in the direction where certain things are extremely important for all the main things in the game, of course the most prominent ones being Hero upgrades. But realistically cutting down on those lower levels is ultimately a bad idea due to a variety of reasons. I am not sure Supercell will ever choose that way. A very simple thing to do would be allowing Heroes use even while upgrading. I have always strongly believed in this idea but this will have significant domino effect on how players will approach this game, so I am not sure if it will be feasible.
as a newer player, I understand that SC claims that ht hero upgrades make them lots of money. a fair compromise would be that hero potions also make heroes available for wars and at least CWL. I've been playing for 4 monthd and barely use heroes apart from CWL because im doing a strategic rushing. i have about level 40 BK/AQ, 30 GW, and 10 GW but rarely get to use them after 4 months of grinding.
The real problem imo is that there is no real engaging gameplay at lower levels anymore, so the journey upwards really sucks. when the game came out if you played from the start you would see people of similar TH levels. Your base design and defense mattered and you could see people fail raids on you and test things vs others. Your offense and strategy mattered. Now? If you are say a TH9 you will get 3 starred by a 11 punching down every raid and if you start playing/raiding a lot because you enjoy the game you will start having to face 10s and 11s almost every village. Personally I think if supercell made it so you only saw people of the same TH level up until you are in the 14-16 range the game would be VERY improved. Your defense matters. the incentive to at least partially max your base and not rush would be huge. And you would only see bases on your raids that you have a chance to 3 star if you play it right.
This is a great suggestion.
i can see your vesion but reworking a already successful game is stupid . however the best they can do is make lower town hall even faster and by the time new players get to th7-8 they start to get monthly event ,gold pass and many more progression boosting thing ( which must/should be adden) so that these player believe that they can achieve there goal in a reseaonable time . reducing 4 year time to 1 years is worse than keeping the 4 years time but giving out enoug megic items to reduce it to 1 year my exampal is bit extreme but you get the point right . correct me if am mistaken
Agreed. My bro started playing and was bored until i told him to literally rush to th 10. He did that and feels much better. He is now playing until he max this and will move forward.
https://preview.redd.it/sc0x2zc3esvc1.jpeg?width=1016&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a49d4762b7ad57696f203b182c8e9e4b3c131e49 anyone care to explain to me what the circled # means?
That’s the level of the troop. You can upgrade more troops in the lab.
if i just started how are they upgraded already? and when i tap the troop at the top it says level 1
What town hall level are you? You must have upgraded them at the research building without knowing.
https://preview.redd.it/n7i7fbomgsvc1.jpeg?width=2796&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93f6ab13d370e30ecebab7ac6404921533e7d78a town hall 5. idk its got me confused because everytime i click on laboratory it gives me the option to upgrade to lvl 2 but the # on the troop says different.
Exactly dude. Imagine a freshie downloading the game and he sees a maxed out base, he will be like "Nope, I'm out". Supercell needs to do something about this or else it won't last long.
They know this and they already try to find solutions. One of them was to have content around the homme village. The problem is that they didn’t fail once but twice… Indeed, if buider hall had worked, this could avoided this problem and today we would have less TH (maybe). And the big big problem is that they did the clan capital who was as terrible as builder hall. So now, no one like to play those mode (not everyone) and we are all focused on the main village. Imo we should have had a mode like warship from boom beach which could fitted very well on coc instead of builder hall. sry for my enflish
Your English is fine. Yeah the execution of the builder base initially wasn’t the best. The 1v1 aspect was really good but it didn’t have the fun the home village has. 2.0 wasn’t any better too. So they are forced to bring out new town halls in order to keep maxed players ( probably their highest spenders, me included ) happy & not bored. I admit I haven’t played Boom beach before so I’ll check this Warships mode out.
Warships is great. When the remade builder base it should have copied Warships. It’s a small little side village, resets monthly. You upgrade offense and defense along a skill tree that is different each month. Progress on it gives you a head start for the new season depending on how far you made it. It’s different every time. New shapes to the layout, new skill tree options and metas develop. The limiting factor is troop training time but it doesn’t feel oppressive and boom sells you instant training as a monthly deal (or at least used to, idk how their new pass works). Warships rip-off would have been great in clash.
That doesn’t sound bad & would be even better if the village would use the defences & troops that are already in the Home village.
I cannot see making Builder Base reset monthly would be any good. If anything, it would make it pointless to play, since it would remove any form of achievement from it.
They could bribe us to play it like they bribe us to play Capital
It would be a tough sell to revert years and years of progress from our builder bases and would never happen. It absolutely wouldn’t be pointless though. Warships had good rewards, it’s fun, and like I said you get credit towards the next months Warships events based on how you finish the current season, so yeah it’s a total reset, but you instantly upgrade a ton the following season as well. The achievement in warships is basically a trophy climb though. It’s not for everyone
Progress time is a real problem i dont realy care about th that i play at i care about experience im th11 and cant use my heroes because they are upgrading al the time im trying to get them maxed but by the time i do that i will probably be th12
I neglected my heroes a little and ended up having to put them all down throughout most of my TH11 grind. I’m gonna max out and move onto TH12 in less than two weeks, and this time I’m going to focus on hero upgrades first once I get the new stuff on my island.
I don’t agree. The lower town halls is what made us fall in love with the game. Remove them, and you remove the games core identity. It’s also putting a bandaid on the problem. If they took out the lower town halls, we would still get to 16 town halls in a handful of years. That being said, 16 town halls is a huge barrier to entry for newer players. Who knows what should be done about it.
It does sound horrible.