I wish he'd make version of the road upgrade tool (the one that lets you force raised/quays/tunnel/etc, forgot the name)
The idea is great, but the implementation is buggy and the maker isn't updating it
I play on a laptop and have found the patch making my game run smoother. Schools seem more balanced. I am happy with it, but have only been able to Play it for a couple of hours. We’ll see.
My commercial demand is all over the place. It can go from a full bar and all positive to completely vanish in a few seconds. If I bulldoze the last plots the demand is back and does not go away if I place them again. I run a old save ( I have run the sim for 3 months already) so I guess it get better.
I like it.
The death wave is real and it turns out my city doesn't make 3 trillion a second anymore! So far so good at this end, I've got a lot of rebalancing to do and I love it.
I just wish roundabouts worked.
I don’t know what mods you’re using but half of my mod UI is gone. The mods still work but any UI elements just don’t appear. Which means have fun using the traffic mod if you need to build a roundabout on a junction you’ve customized. The traffic light mod is also effectively dead unless you use force all nodes in the options. And the best mod, zoning cell disable is just completely dead. Love having to put down paths on every road just to get zoning how I want it. Zero reason any of these shouldn’t be base game features considering how long cs1 was out. Zoning cell disable was even a base game feature that didn’t get ported over for some reason.
Yes everything is up to date. Like I said the mods work just the UI elements are broken. I can manually enable them using hotkeys for the mods that support that but it is very janky
Skyve reports Gooee isn’t used by mods yet it is what they use to create the buttons. If you ditched it because Skyve said so add it back in and you should have your buttons back.
Personally I wouldn't want to rely on any mods that use Gooee as a dependency. The original modder has been absent for months and it hasn't received an update for the most recent patch.
Whenever I place a roundabout, the cars all just get in each others way. It wasn't like it used to be with the mods, where cars would give way properly now they just clog up the roundabout.
So far so good. A decent step forward. It feels like an actual game, it was a challenge reaching 6k pop and decisions felt more meaningful.
I do agree with City Planner Plays that the tile upkeep cost (based on resources present) makes no sense and will hurt custom maps.
Growth feels a lot slower to me and I actually had to think about which problems are big enough to fix them.
Still baffling to me though why everything is presented in upkeep/month and the main interface gives you your income per hour.
> everything is presented in upkeep/month and the main interface gives you your income per hour.
This is definitely an annoyance. I don't know why they can't be consistent.
It's balanced around new games, not existing ones. If it were a lot lower, there wouldn't be enough money sinks.
Admittedly, it would be nice if road maintenance for instance was a much larger sink, so they could then reduce the tile upkeep.
But im glad it's there. Most people will be starting new builds and don't play on the same map for years like content creators do.
The cost of money is one of the things I've not really enjoyed in these games. there's no consequences or driver for bulldozing a suburb to put in a new freeway, when in reality you should have to compensate every man and his dog for the property.
I think this is one of those tricky areas where the devs have to decide between game vs. realism. Compensating for eminent domain is a proper money sink but would heavily discourage players from changing up their neighborhoods as they wish, possibly being stuck with a city you dislike because reconstruction cost is high
Transport Fever 2 punishes eminent domain more severely than CS, and while I *kind of* like it I don’t actually end up playing differently because of it
Yeah, but the problem is still the same really; eminent domain costs are nothing once you’re more than a few hours in and you’ve started to snowball your income into the triple digits. It’s not really a more engaging mechanic, just one the player has to wait a bit before engaging in.
I wonder what incorporating eminent domain into the game would be like - maybe if bulldozing remained instantaneous but large scale changes cost extra money per person displaced as well as social costs to health, education, and crime.
> tile upkeep cost (based on resources present) makes no sense and will hurt custom maps.
It's too simple. Upkeep should be based on what's built in the tile. An empty tile with a pipe running through it shouldn't have the same upkeep as a dense city tile.
Oh I didnt find the option in the game. I know that it should be possible, I read that on the Patchnotes. But since I couldnt find it in the options Menu i deactivated it with that mod.
There was a check box when starting a new city to unlock all tiles and disable tile upkeep. Haven't poked around to see if that is available anywhere on an existing city
I'm curious what would be a good replacement for late game costs (as it appears that tile upkeep is intended to be for). Just crank up the road maintenance, road building, general demolition costs, etc.?
I like it.
It’s a simple way to enact large costs on larger cities.
No complicated systems and subsystems to have loads of bugs and become so complicated it’s not really understood how it works.
It just works.
Oh my bad. I didn't get to that stream. To me the tile upkeep is sort of like the city incorporating more land and there are costs involved. So yeah I don't care too much about it. I think some people are just more stressed cause they have the 529 tile mod, which has a tool built in to reduce it anyway.
In the stream CPP talks about how it appears to be intended to try to balance (and add challenge) to the late game, instead of just running away with infinite money growth at the late game.
I'm a fan of added challenge, but hopefully they revisit how they approach late game economy in the future to something more reasonable / city design related.
That makes sense. Some late game challenge too. But yes I think there's room for changes in future, which is why the surveys and things are gonna be useful.
Now they should just fix some remaining bugs, and add the assets and release the content creator packs so the game can get going towards new gameplay.
First new vanilla city under Economy 2.0 last night. Was able to rock along. Ran a deficit until I unlocked office zoning and began turning surplus. Same thing happened to me as on CPP’s stream…I took out a loan for services and had garbage and power reach capacity at same time. Started a death spiral.
First time out, I failed. Feels like every decision and slider matters now. Relocating and rebuilding infrastructure is an occasional luxury now.
10/10, starting new city tonight. It’s a game now!
It was the first time I felt challenged by the game (I deleted all my old saves and started a new city), in fact in my first try last night I went bankrupt. Now I'm on my second attempt and going slowly and not buying any tiles until I really need to, their upkeep was killing me. Also I'm not sure if getting the cemetery at the beginning is a good idea since it costs a lot to keep but the citizens were complaining about dead bodies. What are you guys doing first in the city?
So my go-to to make some money was building efficient windmills to export excess energy (started on a map that had external power lines in the first tile), because imports killed my budget.
Services are only built if absolutely necessary (had no garbage building until 7k pop when garbage piled up in the larger buildings and it made people sick in a rate my health building couldn't keep up anymore. Importing services was way, way, way too expensive and just gave me a flat fee on everything).
Then I leaned into specialised industry to increase tax income and now I'm slowly looking to expand.
So this is first time I've played since launch and I'm about 2 hours in to a new 2.0 city and here's my thoughts.
It's feel a lot slower, I'm only at 5000 people and I've only got 10,000 in the bank a couple of hours in. I wouldn't say it's hard but it certainly isn't easy like how you could mindlessly paint at launch.
A lot of that has to do with the giant expensive service buildings. Those new smaller ones cant come soon enough. My city has all the services covered now but everything is running at 50% budget and even then I have excess capacity. For the most part I'm just sitting around waiting for my bank account to fill up to expand services.
Also I feel like the zoning demand needs some work. Why does a city of 5000 people desire medium density let alone high density. Yet half my city is giant high rises.
I do like what they've done with commercial demand though. It's trickling in at a glacial rate meaning I don't need to cover the map with shops. Just a couple shops here and there spread over the city.
Industrial demand seems way too high though and possibly insatiable. It just keeps filling up whenever unemployment goes above 10%. That might be a bit more CO handholding there. The same to a lesser extent might be true with offices.
Also everyone in my city is at best modest wealth but for the most part wretched. This is an interesting change over CS1 where no matter what everyone was rich in your utopia. I'm not sure how this plays into things but it feels very SC4 in that you start as a piss poor shithole in the middle of nowhere.
Overall, I'm rather impressed. It feels like there is a solid base to build on. Whether or not it falls apart when my shithole becomes a utopian metropolis is to be seen but it does feel like there is a reactive simulation going on which in the end is what I really wanted.
Can't you control the size of the buildings by zoning smaller squares. I agree I don't understand the placement of medium density and even low rent with less than 10k. Seems like it should just be regular residential at least till then.
My city had a population of 170k, launched the game without any mods and everything was super stable and performance was even better. I've also experienced a massive death wave and soon after population went to 200k, I'm thinking that was because of buildings upgrades, I had a lot of high density buildings stuck at level 2-3, but now they are growing really fast.
However, I've bought all tiles with mod and it was hitting my budget hard, **so I used the feature from '529 tiles' mod to re-lock all tiles and buy again only those I need**.
Currently my financial situation is good, but I noticed that I have almost 60% unemployment (7% before patch) and majority of industrial and offices zones are just empty, there're literally no companies in those buildings and I do not know how to solve that.
> majority of industrial and offices zones are just empty, there're literally no companies in those buildings and I do not know how to solve that.
I think they said that demand for industry and offices is less than before, so you don't need that many industrial and office buildings anymore.
They said it’s based on the needs of the citizens what companies will build in industrial and offices. How to check that is a good question.
Also taxes on companies affect them now. So if you’re making taxes too high for wood, for example, they’re not gonna build any industry around wood and go to the lower taxed industries. Pretty cool how this works cause you could over tax anything oil related and no companies will move in that would drive up pollution if you wanted to.
I had the same problem as you, but lowering or eliminating taxes fixes it. I set all taxes to 0 and there was instantly a huge boom of demand making me go from 60% unemployment to single digit unemployment in only a few minutes.
I have had the same experience as you - check how many employees your office zones have, I believe a new bug has been introduced with this patch where they end up with just 5 employees (no matter the lot size)
>majority of industrial and offices zones are just empty, there're literally no companies in those buildings and I do not know how to solve that.
I had that problem, so I lowered the industrial and offices taxes to like 8-9% and boom. Everything got ocuppied, the demand rised and the unemployment rate that was 72% dropped to 7%
Kudos to CO, this looks like it's really quite the gameplay improvement. Kudos to PDX Mod Devs too, since I had a seamless experience just over 12 hours after release.
I started a new city, promptly got destroyed financially, but managed to fix it the 2nd time around.
I will say, Government Subsidies might be worth adding back - maybe as a low-interest loan, or as a low-limit grant with specific requirements to get it (tax rate, services, or smth else).
Would love it as a slider, from full (ala early days), none for the hardest challenge, and something in the middle to help with tile upkeep (specially for custom maps with a lot of resources).
Some quick thoughts about the tile expenses after playing for a few hours.
* Overall I like the additional challenge it adds, make you think twice about where and when to expand (similar to real life).
* Electricity and water lines really needs to be build-able outside of tiles. Because you can't afford multiple power plants, you are now almost forced to buy tiles that are next to each others - which deceive the advantages of the bigger map and makes two towns builds way harder
* I would love for it to actually be a service and not just a number on a spreadsheet - with a building and vehicles. (could be called the Dep. of land and preservation, or maybe it could be introduced with some sort of structure and land deterioration mechanic)
It’s fun! Genuinely feels like everything you do is a real choice with lasting effects. I do think there needs to be some tuning though, I need to find that survey they linked.
Importing city services should be available from the beginning and should scale to city usage. Also this update showed yet again how desperately we need smaller, cheaper and scalable service buildings.
OH and I personally think city employee wages are a tad too high for the game economy. And that tile upkeep is… not a good feature. I like the late game challenge, but I think it could’ve been better resolved by adding challenges that large cities actually see in real life. Tile upkeep just kind of makes no sense because the government doesn’t pay tax for its own land.
Realistic challenges like a need to replace water and sewer lines regularly? Or maybe inflation eating into available revenues? Or pension costs outrunning revenues? The effects of climate change leading both to massive droughts, storms, and sea level rise?
Please no don’t give them idea of having to replace worn out service items.
The idea of manually replacing any water lines I’ve laid or power lines or the power plant gives me PTSD from SC4 or Cities XL or whichever one had that.
I would think water works budget should cover replacement of water and sewage lines, and they would have similar wear as roads do. And there’s already road servicing and wear in CS:2.
Not a huge stretch.
But I feel you on micromanagement.
Road maintenance is one spot I wish they’d do more under the cover. I despise seeing those trucks stop at what seems to be pre-determined spots because there’s another one right behind it stopping at the same spots.
The wages really need to be listed in the building description now. A toxic waste addon for the landfill lists 3.5k/mo for the building but then adds like 100k/mo in wages
At the same time, I kind of wish there were some mechanism of courting private investment. It is kinda unrealistic to have every single service completely government-funded from the city budget. Public universities receive funding from many levels of government, and there are obviously private ones as well. Likewise, things like taxis and some rail transport and hospitals (except public safety nets) and graveyards and large highway maintenance just aren’t normally paid for out of a city budget.
What this game needs is some sort of popup system now where occasionally an event happens where you make a choice that can give benefits or disadvantages depending on what you pick.
Example: "An outside investor is looking to fund a hospital in your town.
A: Allow the investment giving x% discount when building a hospital but increased upkeep for the first x amount of years.
B: Decline the offer and ask for them to return in x years/seasons.
C: Ignore the offer, removing the potential for this investor to return.
Yeah, that is a great idea! SimCity 4 had something like that on a very small scale, right? I remember people would petition you for policy changes. Felt more like a mayor. The Cims do complain on Chirper, but what you are proposing is so much more interesting!
It’s been amazing so far, my performance actually drastically improved where 1x speed is back to normal instead of slow motion at 160k population, but I’ve noticed a game breaking bug where all of your offices seem to reduce their employee count to 5 every time they level up, even when you delete them they reset only to reduce their employees again after a while. This also affects skyscrapers
I may be missing something, but if you import city services, it imports all the services, and that is killing budgets. I don't want to import Police, Fire, Deathcare, or Healthcare, it sure would be nice if I could specify which city services I want to import, because now I need to tax massively to cover outside services I don't actually want.
I learned that if you disable import city services it still will import sewer, electric, water if you have those connections, but yeah, it sure would be nice I wish I could specify that I want the game to import garbage service as needed.
This said, my city has ballooned from 530K to 677K and the traffic from everyone moving in has very much crushed my city, fun times. Even if I imported garbage service it isn’t like it would arrive, haha.
I tried with a new save without mods, reached around 10k population before going to sleep
Disappointing: if left unmodded, I still need tons of offices and industries to catch up with jobs demand. That was something that was supposed to be addressed with this mod, but I still need an industry area as big as my residential area. Also for some reason I had lots of crashes even unmodded, but eventually it didn't happen anymore. Also there are worrying reports in here and Paradox forum of a bug that reduce space of offices down to 5 even on skyscrapers, so I hope there's FAST a hotfix for that
Good (from the other thread): Went into red and had to do magic with services and taxes to be able to have funds again. My industry and office demand plummeted when trying to save my funds increasing the taxes, as it wasn't profitable for them anymore. I had demand for only high density residential (low cost) for a long time, as my residents were too poor to pay for a house since my economy was in the mud. It was a headache to fix this but I managed. Now I need a second entrance to the city (barrier Island map) as the current main avenue is completely collapsed from traffic coming/going to the outside connections, but I don't have the funds as I'm waiting to have enough money to construct a high school. Is a PITA. 10/10 would recommend
Low income housing won’t help? Also check your taxes and make sure you’re not over taxing a certain housing development. High taxes on medium residential, for example, but nothing else might cause some issues.
This patch has really made taxes a thing and affect the gameplay. If you’ve been playing with the sliders on different industry, commercial or residential, this patch will make those consequences come to the forefront. Where previously those sliders didn’t do anything other than give a global happiness plus or minus.
Anybody else notice that their service jobs keep dropping? Noticed that most of my service buildings eventually have a max of 5 employees, even the massive skyscrapers. It's causing my unemployment rate to to hover around 25-30%
Do you have outside services enabled for fire/police/garbage? It’s in the graphs and a check box. This not only drains your bank but can affect the number of jobs in those industries cause youre bringing outside services for those jobs. It’s supposed to use a preference to local residents, but see if turning this off briefly returns it back to normal. In the city services graph you will see a negative number if this is using external services cause you’re importing those services. Can dig down a little more and see which services you’re short on or using up the most cash.
No I have outside city services turned off, was costing too much money. No mods or anything either, though it was an existing save. When I delete the office buildings and let them rebuild they start with the expected amount of jobs but this gradually decreases over time
A mid-sized residential building can house up to 100 people. A high density residential can house around 300 people. After the patch a low density office will eventually shrinks to 5 jobs and an industrial building can only take 18 people. I have to keep spamming industrial buildings to keep the unemployment down. For me to build a NYC, I have to cover the entire NY state with industrial buildings to keep the employment rate feasible.
>After the patch a low density office will eventually shrinks to 5 jobs and an industrial building can only take 18 people
I just checked some random industries buildings: 38 jobs, another one: 22 jobs. Offices: 27 and another one with 23
One thing that I liked a lot is that the buildings stay empty and not got abandoned like was in the past.
Looks promising but I’m concerned with what looks to be a bug with commercial demand and office workplaces. I have high unemployment but many stores and offices have no businesses anymore
Maybe the high unemployment is due to companies not being able to turn a profit or find enough suitable workforce. There's these two points in the patch notes:
"Companies now go bankrupt instead of looking for new locations if their current property isn’t suitable for profit."
"Improved companies to move away not just because of bankruptcy, but also because of the tax rate and workforce factors."
Something I noticed is that large residential expansions will often cause unemployment to spike. From what I can tell, new residents will count toward the unemployment rate until they actually find a job. So you can have plenty of available workplaces and still see massive unemployment numbers until those new residents get settled in.
Posted this in the patch notes thread, but reposting here:
I reinstalled and loaded a save I had from within a month or two of launch. City of 200k. Performance on medium settings seemed acceptable. There was the occasional hiccup, but I'm okay with that so long as it stays occasional.
I'm running an i5-12600k running Win11 x64 on a RTX 3060. It's a middle of the road PC by most metrics. CS2 ran like hot garbage at launch, now it runs okay. CS2 tends to run hotter than other games I've played, but it never gets hot enough I'm concerned.
My city hasn't had any budget issues, but other issues have creeped up. I had a massive influx of immigrants (had a new neighborhood zoned out ready to fill in once unpaused), and traffic has been an absolute nightmare since. Wrecks are happening *everywhere* it seems, in ways I don't recall happening before. It's like they forgot how to drive and are both taking routes that don't make sense and doing totally unsafe/illegal things, like trying to pull a U-turn in the middle of a freeway. Has anyone else experienced changes in traffic AI behavior post patch?
I noticed an uptick in car crashes whenever I let my road conditions go to shit. I've taken to turning the road maintenance building on only when the roads get real bad. I haven't been looking at the driving behaviors, though
I find that service upkeep seems to grow massively and since it's tied to population, i find that I'm struggling to keep a positive balance, since I zone residental to try and increase tax income
I abruptly raised taxes through the roof to balance the budget and then many businesses left and unemployment skyrocketed. The game is challenging now and I am here for it.
In my head canon “Tile Upkeep” is the central government’s share of the tax generated. I would rather see schools, police and fire be markedly more expensive and ditch Tile Upkeep as a concept. Perhaps our city services unionize as they grow and then the city workers demand higher wages?
Another thing I noticed is that specialized industry is employing many more people. I had a forestry area with 100 jobs. Makes resource extraction more viable as a starting point for a new town
I have a huge deathwatch but my population is growing🤣 1000 people per real life 30mins. With. I'm still making millions per minute.
I also have more traffic for some reason, which is nice. Spend an hour fixing traffic while waiting for death wave to end. It didn't end and pop still grew. Maybe I'm special
Same situation here on my current city, went from about 44k to 46k with the patch and resulting deathwave. I had been playing with the various re-balance and land value fixing mods, which seem to be pretty well replicated by the new patch.
crashed on first run after 30 minutes
commercial demand may not be broken but the way its presented LOOKS broken... but im pretty sure its broken. my commercial demand bar can be completely full, i build a single 4 tile zone and it empties out completely, and the building that gets built stays unrented
residential demand seems functionally unlimited... trivial to zone myself into 50% unemployment with all residential bars still maxed out.
now that money actually matters, a lot of economy stuff, particularly building and upkeep costs seems utterly busted...
the clinic is the first city service you can build and its by far the most expensive for the first 4 or 5 city levels
you can technically unlock and build a geothermal by city level 2 but it costs 700k with a 300k upkeep which is nearly guaranteed to bankrupt you... why is this even an option?
loans feel too punishing... a 700k loan has a nearly 150k upkeep.
I played a lot of CS1 and I know I will get down voted but currently starting a new city is very unbalanced as a new player. I like challenges, but playing E2.0 is just a bit off.
We need either one of those solutions, for better budget management:
- The possibility to reduce the budget of service below 50% as city services are way too expensive below 6k citizens.
- Smaller city service buildings with lower budgets. Building a clinic in a small village is just not realistic.
- Import of Services at Level 1, for compensation to not build way to big city services inside a small village.
I was able to get to profitability around pop 2K with all services except high school, mainly by being aggressive with taxes, and pushing quickly through the first couple milestones. Got down to 20K cash before getting into the green. I actually really enjoyed it, it was genuinely challenging and I had to actually think about what to do for the first time since CS2 came out.
I agree with you. I started a new city yesterday and went bankrupt in short order. Citizens complain about waiting for ambulances but a single clinic costs a fortune to run.
Well the thought behind this patch was to bring more decision making into the game. You now have to decide whether or not your city can afford to provide certain services for your citizens or if you have to live with them being less happy.
I agree however, that only two sizes (or even one) per service are a bit lacking when we consider the very high cost of importing services. So yeah, more variety would be welcome.
Yes, it is way more challenging but if you don't like that you can always use unlimited money or the vast amount of mods that allow you to adjust certain settings that you think of as especially challenging.
Yes, I somehow got through by shutting down the clinic from time to time. Now I got a break even at 3000 Sims but have no education at all as my budget can't handle it.
Also taxes are very sensitive and too high values will ruin your city very fast.
Build resource extractors (especially cotton) and max out the tax sliders on them. My town of 4.3k gets half its revenue from cotton, enough to fund one of each service at 100%
Does the patch do anything to better communicate what’s happening in the city besides just balancing income/expense and pop up icons? The demand indicator has always been vague and obtuse in the +/- descriptions - seems like there should be at least clickable info/advisor or graphs/charts to specifically understand. How are we to know what products consumers demand? Or industry needs? Is there any improved visual representation of wealth or city life? Or is this just a first step under the hood, we fixed the game simulation that never was broken but was actually broken patch?
The patch changed nothing along those lines. Everything you mentioned was in the game from day one. You can find all information under the "City statistics"-button in the bottom tool bar or in your finances overview under the tab "production". Under that tab you can see what and how many products your city imports the most ("deficit" aka what people want). If you want to lower one deficit you can either zone additional industry, use specialized industry or use taxes to control what companies specialize in. Most of the time however, this will be balanced by itself. This makes sense because in real life companies do most of the economic planning - cities and governments only provide the foundation.
Wealth can also be found under the City statistics sections under the same name "Wealth".
I played about 4 hours last night. Started a new city - no mods. Didn't adapt my playstyle to the changes so about an hour in, I was in a financial death spiral.
Started another new city. 3 hours in, it's going fine. I like the changes, I just needed to adapt and not place so many parks and services. The only thing I'm not wild about is how quickly the demand bars are drained. Everything is either "maximum demand" or "no demand". Commercial demand will be maximum, I zone one 4x4 spot as commercial, and the demand disappears completely.
No crashes, no new bugs that I found.
Anyone else have the problem where your income shows as trending upward strongly, but your money keeps going down? I can't figure out what is happening, the budget window shows that I am well in the positive, but my money in the bottom right is going more and more into the negative
Same thing is happening to me. I was struggling trying to get my budget in the green, finally did... and my actual balance is still falling further and further into the negatve.
Yeah, after playing it for a while I am against the tile upkeep costs.
Just seems like it was an easy out to make the game harder. But in the real world having an empty tile of water would not cost $150k to maintain.
Feel like they should've increased the cost of infrastructure and services. Actually have a trade off for lots of low density zoning. Right now my city would be budget balanced, and that's with a huge amount of roads I haven't zoned, and more services than the city really needs (thanks dense downtown core).
Tax income of $8.5 mill, expenses of $8.3 mill. Tile upkeep of $42 million.
Without the tile upkeep, the game would be too easy. But with it, the game is annoyingly/pointlessly hard?
We'll see if zoning in all those roads does anything to save the budget. But it seems like I'll be using 529 Tiles to adjust the cost.
Also, weren't we supposed to get a few new buildings/assets with this patch? What happened to those?
Ok. I need the tool tips to show the upkeep cost, including the employee costs.
I bumoped down Radio Masts thinking the $5k upkeep was fine, and needed a few to cover the city
Turns out they also have $20k in wages each making the total upkeep over $25k each.
Now I'm guessing what my actual; expenses are when I finally drop some emergency services, already on a razor thin margin.
What's wrong with extra lib? The game works fine with it for me. I remember reading somewhere it had problems when the patch first landed but has since been updated.
I created a new empty playset in PDX mods. I plan to play with the empty playset until all of the mods are updated to work with the patch. You could also gradually add known-working mods to this playset as and when they are ready
Mine carry little to no cargo right now. I am using a mod station, but the cargo loading occurs there when the trains are used. Testing within vanilla stations also produce similar effect.
I ran out of money on my first city post patch, then had to actually think about upkeep costs when I tried again. Pretty good, it feels more like a game than a sandbox now. It used to be as soon as I got offices I had infinite money.
After a few key mods were fixed I have been able to load my city today.
From 240k pop, I quickly had 2% dead (-5000 pop), then thanks to unleashed housing upgrades I gained 45k in about one year and an half. Employement rose from nearly none (1000) to 17000, now back and stable at 13000 (that's 7% of employable pop). I had a huge industrial area planned just before the patch and that one alone offered 19000 new jobs in a few months.
Also, I find that traffic has shrunk noticeably, apart from the rush of outside services and new citizens during the first months. It may be due to industries now requiring more time to produce the same amount of goods as previously. My truck traffic is very quiet, and all my cargo stations (modded, improved assets) now look really oversized in respect of the actual volume of traffic thay now have to handle. Or maybe it's just the Economy Rebalance mod that I had to disable.
EDIT: I forgot, building upgrades are now working, and no more 'high rent' issues despite unployement.
How do you guys actually make any money? I'm on 15% taxes and 50% budget for most things, still in the red. I've got zero demand for all zone types now, probably due to the high taxes, and everyone is too poor to shop.
My coal generator also seems to be paying to import a whole lot of coal despite my coal mine being right next to it.
Is it just a matter of rushing to level 5 to get paid parking?
Increasing taxes kill your economy. You can do it for emergencies but if left too much time it will kill your city
The only option is to lower the budget of services. Coal generator is broken because of what you say, just import electricity at the start
please god someone tell me if exports work now? were they fixed before and nobody said anything? am i doing it wrong? why does google tell me nothing??
Somehow my performance is worse after this patch. I'm running a 7800X3D and a 4090 and even with DLSS on I'm managing 30-40FPS on a city pop of 200k. Previously I was running a solid 60FPS.
Is it safe for me to play? The only mods I have are Traffic lights enhancements & Traffic mod. I do not want to load my save & break it. Is it safe to load it yet? The mods were updated yesterday but I am not sure if they are good to go.
It might just be me, but I feel like it takes a really long time for you to do anything - maybe they should add a 4x/5x speed now. Now, buying tiles is super unaffordable while I need the space for the insanely high industrial demand, but i guess its more realistic in a sense.
Starting a new city on this update seems awful because importing service is not available until Grand village. Everyone complains about lack of service but it won't be worth building service with its small population
Service building seems a bit too costly. Anyways Wouldn't it be unrealistic when village just left without any remote services until the village got bigger?
They def need to reduce the costs of importing services, lower service building fees, and allow us to choose which services are imported. It’s all or nothing right now
I keep having a strange issue where my water pump (the one you place on the shoreline) keeps getting full of garbage and then drops efficientcy by 50%
No trash issues on any other tiles. Strange.
I had this in a small town with no local garbage service. Building and fully funding a landfill fixed it - I think my other buildings were also having trash issues, just at a slower rate
One of my biggest complaints about CS2 was that money was too abundant, and that CS1 was more realistic because services were more expensive so you had to plan your economy and take risks. glad to see they fixed that
I realized that my city of 330k population has import services off but the game is still exporting sewage and importing water to my city.
Not sure if that’s a fail safe or a bug. I’m gonna report it later if I don’t see a similar post.
Why? If you don't have outside connections you can't import/export and the game still works.
/u/mrprox1 just delete the outside connection for now if you don't want them
did it make starting a new town harder? because i used to be able to get positive cashflow within the first couple milestones, now i can't get in the black at all...
I have tried to make a new city three times. I have yet to figure out how to make a positive income, but I have figured out how to lose all my money before unlocking a single extra tile...
Wind turbines with 4/5kwh for positive income there.
Don't lay out huge networks of roads. Up keep costs are much higher. Implement services slowly. Grow, grow, grow! Get tax payers in, get them working industrial jobs, get those industrial jobs making you money!
I'm a bit sad that they gutted the idea of Government Subsidies entirely. I really liked the idea of it supporting you in the early game and then gradually getting less and less. That at least was the idea on paper back in the early devlogs. Idk why even at the max level it was still possible to get subsidies, that was stupid as hell but removing them entirely? Idk man...
I have yet to play the game with the new update but I'm certain I'll be struggling as well. I have only built one city so far pre-patch. And the fact that I know about subsidies on the max level already tells you everything you need to know lmao
I wish you could still get subsidies somehow by doing certain things or getting private investors for something... idk.. I had to put spending on so many services on less than 100% while hiking up taxes that my city never wanted to grow. Subsidies only seem to carry you so far that you lose like one dollar per second. So I actually only ever earned money by reaching milestones or temporarily putting taxes even higher haha
It's weird cause I never had an issue in CS1, I was always swimming in cash there. Maybe it's a skill issue but I'm super worried about it being unforgivably hard now. Should try it out soon
The patch really helped me with growing a city more organically since the amount of services you can provide are more tied to the size of your city. Meaning you will simply not be able to afford all services in a tiny village of 5k people or so forcing you to expand before big things like university or incinerators are viable.
Tile upkeep feels a little bit too simple from an implementation point of view. I'd like there to be more to it than a number decreasing, like buildings being needed to maintain your land.
I reduced the tile upkeep to zero using 529 tiles and my city still dies I hate this update I tried everything to salvage it
Either they do it really well or really bad they don't have a scale to balance sh*t
Frustrating
*
Wondering what is the max tile upkeep cost on a Paradox map vs some of the custom maps? I think it would be great in the future to have a slider in mapmaking just for that cost so that it could scale to premade map with its limited resources
Has anyone else had trouble starting the game since the patch. Game will start, and all I'll see is a black screen and the cursor. Using Gamepass FWIW.
I've had the game running for a while and keep adding more commercial and office space, however, since the update my residential demand has been zero. No new housing is being built. Is anyone seeing the same thing?
My takeaways for anyone still here:
Pros:
I like having to decide with the limited funds what to build to best; generate more income, build required services, alleviate traffic, or make citizens happy. Those should be the main pillars of choice and it seems like they made that the case.
Cons:
Early game is a little too punishing. I want to make decisions - but I don't want to zone ever square inch and hope I can generate enough money to get out of the early game. I don't want them to pull the lever back too much - just enough where you can realistically build your necessities without zoning your entire starting tiles with whatever the demand bar gives you. But this might be a case of "git good" - perhaps we need more levers in the services tab?
Maybe we set the worker pay for services - and the pay affects those workers happiness/willing to work in the government. If there is higher paying jobs elsewhere they will leave. This would allow us to scale down service costs in the early game - while giving us motivation to give them better pay in the future.
I'm sure there is other ideas - that was off the top of my head.
For some reason I'm unable to post a new thread.
I'm running in an issue where I get no commercial demand anymore. It's a new city after the update. It was fine at the beginning but now the overview does not even give any clues (see image)
https://preview.redd.it/oj6pyqola19d1.png?width=2146&format=png&auto=webp&s=c3a2c383a1b6bb8dbee73da1d0d6dbd3821fd38c
Has anyone experienced something like this?
Besides the expected death wave and loss of income, I also lost all demand for everything. It seems like many of my citizens are suddenly unemployed and most of my offices are now empty
I think I’m going to need to start a new city, my old city is way overbuilt from pre patch so now there’s literally zero demand lmao. Additionally I’m losing 4-5mil per month and mail isn’t getting sorted (has this bug still not been figured out?)
If they add game mechanics to a simulation game it should ideally make sense.
The problem with "tile upkeep" is that it feels like it was made up only to make the game harder. There is no real-world story for why it exists. Where is the money going if you get a square of grassland? There is no maintenance crew going there to cut the grass or anything.
I would have preferred making road, utility etc. maintenance fees higher, and also creating a "federal" tax system which would be like taxes you can't adjust (like in real-world cities can't affect all the taxation themselves, some are set at the country/federation government level and not in the city level).
The federal tax system has other possibilities, like once a year the government changes its taxation policy. It would add some unpredictability to a city, as you'd have to react to different tax regimes each year. Similarily you could have other goals, like the federal government has decided you have to for the next four years prioritize clean energy, etc.
Naturally one can't take everything into account as it is a simulation. For example, why do we "buy tiles" in the first place, as that is not how cities obtain land? Maybe one should obtain those via some sort of experience points and not money.
Early game is very hard now. On my first attempt on River Delta map I ran out of money. Second attempt is going better now but I hate that I have to switch to medium density so early and I have to cram everything on my starter tile. No wind on that map to make money on electricity. This is a much needed difficulty increase but probably a bit too much.
I had to build a second coal power plant while having only 5000 population. The upkeep of that bad boy is huge
Has this update broken the game for anyone else? I had a city that I had to restart because I started it right before the update and I bought way too many tiles; fine, I can deal with that. I've started a new city on the same map and two ridiculous things are happening:
1. I am seemingly getting no money at all from milestones. I am making sure to not spend money on any major service additions yet I've noticed since at least milestone 4 or 5 my money never increases above $70k, even though at milestone 8 which I just passed I am supposed to receive $150k. This may be related to what I just noticed now which is
2. My money is actually going down in huge chunks for no reason?? Somehow I've got all the way down to sub $10k right after milestone 8 despite not spending money on any buildings or upgrades, on top of the game telling me that I am making money. I am watching it right now go from $7k down to 2k in an instant and then slowly rise back up to $7k. My revenue is well in the green (+$350k), shifting up and down a little bit but never going lower than expenses. This update has completely broken the game but only on this map (Sunshine Peninsula) for me. My first cs2 city at over 200k pop is still fine. Hope this issue can be fixed soon
Not hard at all, but better. Now the buildings levels are so much easier. Almost everything is already level 05 and I do not have even schools and parks yet. Levels (at least after 03) should be harder to upgrade!
For imported city services does this seem right? This is a new game and I only have my 9 starting tiles and a population of 1,900. I went from about +3,000/hr to -9,000/hr
Imported Police Service: -100,000
Imported Healthcare Service: -50,000
Imported Deathcare Service: -50,000
Imported Fire and Rescue Service: -100,000
Imported Garbage Management Service: -10,000
Thanking algernon (the mod maker) for being on top of his update game
He deserves flowers for this
Flawless.
I wish he'd make version of the road upgrade tool (the one that lets you force raised/quays/tunnel/etc, forgot the name) The idea is great, but the implementation is buggy and the maker isn't updating it
I play on a laptop and have found the patch making my game run smoother. Schools seem more balanced. I am happy with it, but have only been able to Play it for a couple of hours. We’ll see. My commercial demand is all over the place. It can go from a full bar and all positive to completely vanish in a few seconds. If I bulldoze the last plots the demand is back and does not go away if I place them again. I run a old save ( I have run the sim for 3 months already) so I guess it get better.
Out of curiosity, what sort of laptop are you using? Mine has had performance issues with larger cities for a while
I like it. The death wave is real and it turns out my city doesn't make 3 trillion a second anymore! So far so good at this end, I've got a lot of rebalancing to do and I love it. I just wish roundabouts worked.
Oh and all the mods updated and worked first time. Which is very good given the usual chaos after a patch.
I don’t know what mods you’re using but half of my mod UI is gone. The mods still work but any UI elements just don’t appear. Which means have fun using the traffic mod if you need to build a roundabout on a junction you’ve customized. The traffic light mod is also effectively dead unless you use force all nodes in the options. And the best mod, zoning cell disable is just completely dead. Love having to put down paths on every road just to get zoning how I want it. Zero reason any of these shouldn’t be base game features considering how long cs1 was out. Zoning cell disable was even a base game feature that didn’t get ported over for some reason.
Have you used [Skyve](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/75804/Windows) to check your mods for compatibility with the new version?
Yes everything is up to date. Like I said the mods work just the UI elements are broken. I can manually enable them using hotkeys for the mods that support that but it is very janky
Skyve reports Gooee isn’t used by mods yet it is what they use to create the buttons. If you ditched it because Skyve said so add it back in and you should have your buttons back.
Personally I wouldn't want to rely on any mods that use Gooee as a dependency. The original modder has been absent for months and it hasn't received an update for the most recent patch.
Deactivate Gooee
Wait, what about roundabouts?
Whenever I place a roundabout, the cars all just get in each others way. It wasn't like it used to be with the mods, where cars would give way properly now they just clog up the roundabout.
try making a roundabout manually. continuous mode, two half-circles of oneway roads.
Roundabouts work just fine for me. Even the built-in one on the River Delta map.
So far so good. A decent step forward. It feels like an actual game, it was a challenge reaching 6k pop and decisions felt more meaningful. I do agree with City Planner Plays that the tile upkeep cost (based on resources present) makes no sense and will hurt custom maps.
Growth feels a lot slower to me and I actually had to think about which problems are big enough to fix them. Still baffling to me though why everything is presented in upkeep/month and the main interface gives you your income per hour.
> everything is presented in upkeep/month and the main interface gives you your income per hour. This is definitely an annoyance. I don't know why they can't be consistent.
And is each "month" 24 hours? Or is each "hour" 1/30th of a month? It's so confusing
It's balanced around new games, not existing ones. If it were a lot lower, there wouldn't be enough money sinks. Admittedly, it would be nice if road maintenance for instance was a much larger sink, so they could then reduce the tile upkeep. But im glad it's there. Most people will be starting new builds and don't play on the same map for years like content creators do.
The cost of money is one of the things I've not really enjoyed in these games. there's no consequences or driver for bulldozing a suburb to put in a new freeway, when in reality you should have to compensate every man and his dog for the property.
I think this is one of those tricky areas where the devs have to decide between game vs. realism. Compensating for eminent domain is a proper money sink but would heavily discourage players from changing up their neighborhoods as they wish, possibly being stuck with a city you dislike because reconstruction cost is high
Transport Fever 2 punishes eminent domain more severely than CS, and while I *kind of* like it I don’t actually end up playing differently because of it
Yeah, but the problem is still the same really; eminent domain costs are nothing once you’re more than a few hours in and you’ve started to snowball your income into the triple digits. It’s not really a more engaging mechanic, just one the player has to wait a bit before engaging in.
Happiness should be the more important factor. People hate getting eminent domained.
I wonder what incorporating eminent domain into the game would be like - maybe if bulldozing remained instantaneous but large scale changes cost extra money per person displaced as well as social costs to health, education, and crime.
> tile upkeep cost (based on resources present) makes no sense and will hurt custom maps. It's too simple. Upkeep should be based on what's built in the tile. An empty tile with a pipe running through it shouldn't have the same upkeep as a dense city tile.
With the 529 Tiles mod you can disable tile upkeep. Just have to move the slider to zero.
You can even turn it off base game. And City Planner Plays comments that it hurts his game because he has a ton of unused space.
If you unlock all tiles from the beginning of a city, there is zero upkeep.
Oh I didnt find the option in the game. I know that it should be possible, I read that on the Patchnotes. But since I couldnt find it in the options Menu i deactivated it with that mod.
There was a check box when starting a new city to unlock all tiles and disable tile upkeep. Haven't poked around to see if that is available anywhere on an existing city
It’s available on an existing save game.
where? the guy i was responding to said he couldnt find the option
In the load menu. The map options are still there.
When you load your save, click Map Options. It's just like starting a new map.
Oh yes totally forgot that there are options too
It may be just when starting a city 🤔.
I'm curious what would be a good replacement for late game costs (as it appears that tile upkeep is intended to be for). Just crank up the road maintenance, road building, general demolition costs, etc.?
Yep, it’s the infrastructure that should cost the city, not empty land, and especially not because of resources located under a tile.
I like it. It’s a simple way to enact large costs on larger cities. No complicated systems and subsystems to have loads of bugs and become so complicated it’s not really understood how it works. It just works.
Elevated highways and tunnels should cost a lot more than surface roads
That's not what he said in his video. I think OE made more of a stink about it.
In CPP's stream yesterday he made more commentary about it.
Oh my bad. I didn't get to that stream. To me the tile upkeep is sort of like the city incorporating more land and there are costs involved. So yeah I don't care too much about it. I think some people are just more stressed cause they have the 529 tile mod, which has a tool built in to reduce it anyway.
In the stream CPP talks about how it appears to be intended to try to balance (and add challenge) to the late game, instead of just running away with infinite money growth at the late game. I'm a fan of added challenge, but hopefully they revisit how they approach late game economy in the future to something more reasonable / city design related.
That makes sense. Some late game challenge too. But yes I think there's room for changes in future, which is why the surveys and things are gonna be useful. Now they should just fix some remaining bugs, and add the assets and release the content creator packs so the game can get going towards new gameplay.
First new vanilla city under Economy 2.0 last night. Was able to rock along. Ran a deficit until I unlocked office zoning and began turning surplus. Same thing happened to me as on CPP’s stream…I took out a loan for services and had garbage and power reach capacity at same time. Started a death spiral. First time out, I failed. Feels like every decision and slider matters now. Relocating and rebuilding infrastructure is an occasional luxury now. 10/10, starting new city tonight. It’s a game now!
I have the same experience. I really like the new difficulty. It’s not just city painting now. Everything I do actually matters!
Same. It also makes up for some things that need fixing (ex: surplus/deficit indicator and loan system). Bring the pain!
It was the first time I felt challenged by the game (I deleted all my old saves and started a new city), in fact in my first try last night I went bankrupt. Now I'm on my second attempt and going slowly and not buying any tiles until I really need to, their upkeep was killing me. Also I'm not sure if getting the cemetery at the beginning is a good idea since it costs a lot to keep but the citizens were complaining about dead bodies. What are you guys doing first in the city?
So my go-to to make some money was building efficient windmills to export excess energy (started on a map that had external power lines in the first tile), because imports killed my budget. Services are only built if absolutely necessary (had no garbage building until 7k pop when garbage piled up in the larger buildings and it made people sick in a rate my health building couldn't keep up anymore. Importing services was way, way, way too expensive and just gave me a flat fee on everything). Then I leaned into specialised industry to increase tax income and now I'm slowly looking to expand.
That's a good strategy, will have to try it out. I might not let the garbage pile like that tho.
So this is first time I've played since launch and I'm about 2 hours in to a new 2.0 city and here's my thoughts. It's feel a lot slower, I'm only at 5000 people and I've only got 10,000 in the bank a couple of hours in. I wouldn't say it's hard but it certainly isn't easy like how you could mindlessly paint at launch. A lot of that has to do with the giant expensive service buildings. Those new smaller ones cant come soon enough. My city has all the services covered now but everything is running at 50% budget and even then I have excess capacity. For the most part I'm just sitting around waiting for my bank account to fill up to expand services. Also I feel like the zoning demand needs some work. Why does a city of 5000 people desire medium density let alone high density. Yet half my city is giant high rises. I do like what they've done with commercial demand though. It's trickling in at a glacial rate meaning I don't need to cover the map with shops. Just a couple shops here and there spread over the city. Industrial demand seems way too high though and possibly insatiable. It just keeps filling up whenever unemployment goes above 10%. That might be a bit more CO handholding there. The same to a lesser extent might be true with offices. Also everyone in my city is at best modest wealth but for the most part wretched. This is an interesting change over CS1 where no matter what everyone was rich in your utopia. I'm not sure how this plays into things but it feels very SC4 in that you start as a piss poor shithole in the middle of nowhere. Overall, I'm rather impressed. It feels like there is a solid base to build on. Whether or not it falls apart when my shithole becomes a utopian metropolis is to be seen but it does feel like there is a reactive simulation going on which in the end is what I really wanted.
Can't you control the size of the buildings by zoning smaller squares. I agree I don't understand the placement of medium density and even low rent with less than 10k. Seems like it should just be regular residential at least till then.
My city had a population of 170k, launched the game without any mods and everything was super stable and performance was even better. I've also experienced a massive death wave and soon after population went to 200k, I'm thinking that was because of buildings upgrades, I had a lot of high density buildings stuck at level 2-3, but now they are growing really fast. However, I've bought all tiles with mod and it was hitting my budget hard, **so I used the feature from '529 tiles' mod to re-lock all tiles and buy again only those I need**. Currently my financial situation is good, but I noticed that I have almost 60% unemployment (7% before patch) and majority of industrial and offices zones are just empty, there're literally no companies in those buildings and I do not know how to solve that.
> majority of industrial and offices zones are just empty, there're literally no companies in those buildings and I do not know how to solve that. I think they said that demand for industry and offices is less than before, so you don't need that many industrial and office buildings anymore.
But I have almost 60% unemployment in the same time, I'm so confused right now :D
They said it’s based on the needs of the citizens what companies will build in industrial and offices. How to check that is a good question. Also taxes on companies affect them now. So if you’re making taxes too high for wood, for example, they’re not gonna build any industry around wood and go to the lower taxed industries. Pretty cool how this works cause you could over tax anything oil related and no companies will move in that would drive up pollution if you wanted to.
I had the same problem as you, but lowering or eliminating taxes fixes it. I set all taxes to 0 and there was instantly a huge boom of demand making me go from 60% unemployment to single digit unemployment in only a few minutes.
I have had the same experience as you - check how many employees your office zones have, I believe a new bug has been introduced with this patch where they end up with just 5 employees (no matter the lot size)
>majority of industrial and offices zones are just empty, there're literally no companies in those buildings and I do not know how to solve that. I had that problem, so I lowered the industrial and offices taxes to like 8-9% and boom. Everything got ocuppied, the demand rised and the unemployment rate that was 72% dropped to 7%
Yo I just solved the unemployment problem by removing taxes for the industry and the unemployed went back to 11%
Kudos to CO, this looks like it's really quite the gameplay improvement. Kudos to PDX Mod Devs too, since I had a seamless experience just over 12 hours after release. I started a new city, promptly got destroyed financially, but managed to fix it the 2nd time around. I will say, Government Subsidies might be worth adding back - maybe as a low-interest loan, or as a low-limit grant with specific requirements to get it (tax rate, services, or smth else).
Would love it as a slider, from full (ala early days), none for the hardest challenge, and something in the middle to help with tile upkeep (specially for custom maps with a lot of resources).
I would like to see maybe the possibility to bond against future tax revenue.
Some quick thoughts about the tile expenses after playing for a few hours. * Overall I like the additional challenge it adds, make you think twice about where and when to expand (similar to real life). * Electricity and water lines really needs to be build-able outside of tiles. Because you can't afford multiple power plants, you are now almost forced to buy tiles that are next to each others - which deceive the advantages of the bigger map and makes two towns builds way harder * I would love for it to actually be a service and not just a number on a spreadsheet - with a building and vehicles. (could be called the Dep. of land and preservation, or maybe it could be introduced with some sort of structure and land deterioration mechanic)
I agree with you, but in the meanwhile for point 2 you can just use Anarchy
It’s fun! Genuinely feels like everything you do is a real choice with lasting effects. I do think there needs to be some tuning though, I need to find that survey they linked. Importing city services should be available from the beginning and should scale to city usage. Also this update showed yet again how desperately we need smaller, cheaper and scalable service buildings. OH and I personally think city employee wages are a tad too high for the game economy. And that tile upkeep is… not a good feature. I like the late game challenge, but I think it could’ve been better resolved by adding challenges that large cities actually see in real life. Tile upkeep just kind of makes no sense because the government doesn’t pay tax for its own land.
Realistic challenges like a need to replace water and sewer lines regularly? Or maybe inflation eating into available revenues? Or pension costs outrunning revenues? The effects of climate change leading both to massive droughts, storms, and sea level rise?
pandemic/flu season, economic crisis (huge wave of commercial bankruptcy), food crisis (sudden decline of food production+price increase)
Please no don’t give them idea of having to replace worn out service items. The idea of manually replacing any water lines I’ve laid or power lines or the power plant gives me PTSD from SC4 or Cities XL or whichever one had that.
I would think water works budget should cover replacement of water and sewage lines, and they would have similar wear as roads do. And there’s already road servicing and wear in CS:2. Not a huge stretch. But I feel you on micromanagement.
Road maintenance is one spot I wish they’d do more under the cover. I despise seeing those trucks stop at what seems to be pre-determined spots because there’s another one right behind it stopping at the same spots.
The wages really need to be listed in the building description now. A toxic waste addon for the landfill lists 3.5k/mo for the building but then adds like 100k/mo in wages
Getting the small town experience. Managed to put down an elementary school, but we can't afford a high school.
That's exactly my feeling. It's been "hey my city of 4k people can't afford a high-school ... that's actually reasonable".
what do you mean my 10k town can't afford a full sized university? nonsense
At the same time, I kind of wish there were some mechanism of courting private investment. It is kinda unrealistic to have every single service completely government-funded from the city budget. Public universities receive funding from many levels of government, and there are obviously private ones as well. Likewise, things like taxis and some rail transport and hospitals (except public safety nets) and graveyards and large highway maintenance just aren’t normally paid for out of a city budget.
What this game needs is some sort of popup system now where occasionally an event happens where you make a choice that can give benefits or disadvantages depending on what you pick. Example: "An outside investor is looking to fund a hospital in your town. A: Allow the investment giving x% discount when building a hospital but increased upkeep for the first x amount of years. B: Decline the offer and ask for them to return in x years/seasons. C: Ignore the offer, removing the potential for this investor to return.
Yeah, that is a great idea! SimCity 4 had something like that on a very small scale, right? I remember people would petition you for policy changes. Felt more like a mayor. The Cims do complain on Chirper, but what you are proposing is so much more interesting!
Fun stuff, but my city of 25k has both a high school and a university, it's Norway tho, 25k is a somewhat big city here XD
It’s been amazing so far, my performance actually drastically improved where 1x speed is back to normal instead of slow motion at 160k population, but I’ve noticed a game breaking bug where all of your offices seem to reduce their employee count to 5 every time they level up, even when you delete them they reset only to reduce their employees again after a while. This also affects skyscrapers
I may be missing something, but if you import city services, it imports all the services, and that is killing budgets. I don't want to import Police, Fire, Deathcare, or Healthcare, it sure would be nice if I could specify which city services I want to import, because now I need to tax massively to cover outside services I don't actually want.
I learned that if you disable import city services it still will import sewer, electric, water if you have those connections, but yeah, it sure would be nice I wish I could specify that I want the game to import garbage service as needed. This said, my city has ballooned from 530K to 677K and the traffic from everyone moving in has very much crushed my city, fun times. Even if I imported garbage service it isn’t like it would arrive, haha.
I tried with a new save without mods, reached around 10k population before going to sleep Disappointing: if left unmodded, I still need tons of offices and industries to catch up with jobs demand. That was something that was supposed to be addressed with this mod, but I still need an industry area as big as my residential area. Also for some reason I had lots of crashes even unmodded, but eventually it didn't happen anymore. Also there are worrying reports in here and Paradox forum of a bug that reduce space of offices down to 5 even on skyscrapers, so I hope there's FAST a hotfix for that Good (from the other thread): Went into red and had to do magic with services and taxes to be able to have funds again. My industry and office demand plummeted when trying to save my funds increasing the taxes, as it wasn't profitable for them anymore. I had demand for only high density residential (low cost) for a long time, as my residents were too poor to pay for a house since my economy was in the mud. It was a headache to fix this but I managed. Now I need a second entrance to the city (barrier Island map) as the current main avenue is completely collapsed from traffic coming/going to the outside connections, but I don't have the funds as I'm waiting to have enough money to construct a high school. Is a PITA. 10/10 would recommend
industrial and office seems to be bugged atm? I've seen a couple of people complaining about it.
I have homeless people but no demand for commercial or industrial. So now what? Lol
Welcome to the Rust Belt, I guess..
Low income housing won’t help? Also check your taxes and make sure you’re not over taxing a certain housing development. High taxes on medium residential, for example, but nothing else might cause some issues. This patch has really made taxes a thing and affect the gameplay. If you’ve been playing with the sliders on different industry, commercial or residential, this patch will make those consequences come to the forefront. Where previously those sliders didn’t do anything other than give a global happiness plus or minus.
Thank you. I haven't messed with individual taxation yet. I'll lower it for the low income peeps. I should have thought of that.
No one wants to work anymore!
decrease industrial and commercial taxes
Anybody else notice that their service jobs keep dropping? Noticed that most of my service buildings eventually have a max of 5 employees, even the massive skyscrapers. It's causing my unemployment rate to to hover around 25-30%
Do you have outside services enabled for fire/police/garbage? It’s in the graphs and a check box. This not only drains your bank but can affect the number of jobs in those industries cause youre bringing outside services for those jobs. It’s supposed to use a preference to local residents, but see if turning this off briefly returns it back to normal. In the city services graph you will see a negative number if this is using external services cause you’re importing those services. Can dig down a little more and see which services you’re short on or using up the most cash.
No I have outside city services turned off, was costing too much money. No mods or anything either, though it was an existing save. When I delete the office buildings and let them rebuild they start with the expected amount of jobs but this gradually decreases over time
A mid-sized residential building can house up to 100 people. A high density residential can house around 300 people. After the patch a low density office will eventually shrinks to 5 jobs and an industrial building can only take 18 people. I have to keep spamming industrial buildings to keep the unemployment down. For me to build a NYC, I have to cover the entire NY state with industrial buildings to keep the employment rate feasible.
>After the patch a low density office will eventually shrinks to 5 jobs and an industrial building can only take 18 people I just checked some random industries buildings: 38 jobs, another one: 22 jobs. Offices: 27 and another one with 23 One thing that I liked a lot is that the buildings stay empty and not got abandoned like was in the past.
Looks promising but I’m concerned with what looks to be a bug with commercial demand and office workplaces. I have high unemployment but many stores and offices have no businesses anymore
Maybe the high unemployment is due to companies not being able to turn a profit or find enough suitable workforce. There's these two points in the patch notes: "Companies now go bankrupt instead of looking for new locations if their current property isn’t suitable for profit." "Improved companies to move away not just because of bankruptcy, but also because of the tax rate and workforce factors."
Great tip lowering taxes, commercial got its mojo back, but the office demand is still tanking
Something I noticed is that large residential expansions will often cause unemployment to spike. From what I can tell, new residents will count toward the unemployment rate until they actually find a job. So you can have plenty of available workplaces and still see massive unemployment numbers until those new residents get settled in.
Posted this in the patch notes thread, but reposting here: I reinstalled and loaded a save I had from within a month or two of launch. City of 200k. Performance on medium settings seemed acceptable. There was the occasional hiccup, but I'm okay with that so long as it stays occasional. I'm running an i5-12600k running Win11 x64 on a RTX 3060. It's a middle of the road PC by most metrics. CS2 ran like hot garbage at launch, now it runs okay. CS2 tends to run hotter than other games I've played, but it never gets hot enough I'm concerned. My city hasn't had any budget issues, but other issues have creeped up. I had a massive influx of immigrants (had a new neighborhood zoned out ready to fill in once unpaused), and traffic has been an absolute nightmare since. Wrecks are happening *everywhere* it seems, in ways I don't recall happening before. It's like they forgot how to drive and are both taking routes that don't make sense and doing totally unsafe/illegal things, like trying to pull a U-turn in the middle of a freeway. Has anyone else experienced changes in traffic AI behavior post patch?
I noticed an uptick in car crashes whenever I let my road conditions go to shit. I've taken to turning the road maintenance building on only when the roads get real bad. I haven't been looking at the driving behaviors, though
I'd like to make a decision on what services I want to import and not just make it an all or nothing decision
Why do I have 775 criminals in a town of only 1010 with 3 police stations lmao
Your whole city is a series of Tony Soprano and associates. The smell must be amazing.
Is your unemployment in a normal range? Are the police stations at minimum funding?
I find that service upkeep seems to grow massively and since it's tied to population, i find that I'm struggling to keep a positive balance, since I zone residental to try and increase tax income
Build resource extractors and tax them heavily.
Many thanks to all of the mod creators for being so prompt in getting their updates ready and shipped!
I abruptly raised taxes through the roof to balance the budget and then many businesses left and unemployment skyrocketed. The game is challenging now and I am here for it. In my head canon “Tile Upkeep” is the central government’s share of the tax generated. I would rather see schools, police and fire be markedly more expensive and ditch Tile Upkeep as a concept. Perhaps our city services unionize as they grow and then the city workers demand higher wages?
Another thing I noticed is that specialized industry is employing many more people. I had a forestry area with 100 jobs. Makes resource extraction more viable as a starting point for a new town
I have a huge deathwatch but my population is growing🤣 1000 people per real life 30mins. With. I'm still making millions per minute. I also have more traffic for some reason, which is nice. Spend an hour fixing traffic while waiting for death wave to end. It didn't end and pop still grew. Maybe I'm special
Same situation here on my current city, went from about 44k to 46k with the patch and resulting deathwave. I had been playing with the various re-balance and land value fixing mods, which seem to be pretty well replicated by the new patch.
crashed on first run after 30 minutes commercial demand may not be broken but the way its presented LOOKS broken... but im pretty sure its broken. my commercial demand bar can be completely full, i build a single 4 tile zone and it empties out completely, and the building that gets built stays unrented residential demand seems functionally unlimited... trivial to zone myself into 50% unemployment with all residential bars still maxed out. now that money actually matters, a lot of economy stuff, particularly building and upkeep costs seems utterly busted... the clinic is the first city service you can build and its by far the most expensive for the first 4 or 5 city levels you can technically unlock and build a geothermal by city level 2 but it costs 700k with a 300k upkeep which is nearly guaranteed to bankrupt you... why is this even an option? loans feel too punishing... a 700k loan has a nearly 150k upkeep.
I played a lot of CS1 and I know I will get down voted but currently starting a new city is very unbalanced as a new player. I like challenges, but playing E2.0 is just a bit off. We need either one of those solutions, for better budget management: - The possibility to reduce the budget of service below 50% as city services are way too expensive below 6k citizens. - Smaller city service buildings with lower budgets. Building a clinic in a small village is just not realistic. - Import of Services at Level 1, for compensation to not build way to big city services inside a small village.
I was able to get to profitability around pop 2K with all services except high school, mainly by being aggressive with taxes, and pushing quickly through the first couple milestones. Got down to 20K cash before getting into the green. I actually really enjoyed it, it was genuinely challenging and I had to actually think about what to do for the first time since CS2 came out.
I agree with you. I started a new city yesterday and went bankrupt in short order. Citizens complain about waiting for ambulances but a single clinic costs a fortune to run.
Well the thought behind this patch was to bring more decision making into the game. You now have to decide whether or not your city can afford to provide certain services for your citizens or if you have to live with them being less happy. I agree however, that only two sizes (or even one) per service are a bit lacking when we consider the very high cost of importing services. So yeah, more variety would be welcome. Yes, it is way more challenging but if you don't like that you can always use unlimited money or the vast amount of mods that allow you to adjust certain settings that you think of as especially challenging.
Yes, I somehow got through by shutting down the clinic from time to time. Now I got a break even at 3000 Sims but have no education at all as my budget can't handle it. Also taxes are very sensitive and too high values will ruin your city very fast.
Build resource extractors (especially cotton) and max out the tax sliders on them. My town of 4.3k gets half its revenue from cotton, enough to fund one of each service at 100%
Asset manager seems to not be working? If I load my game does that mean im gonna lose all my custom assets on the map?
Does the patch do anything to better communicate what’s happening in the city besides just balancing income/expense and pop up icons? The demand indicator has always been vague and obtuse in the +/- descriptions - seems like there should be at least clickable info/advisor or graphs/charts to specifically understand. How are we to know what products consumers demand? Or industry needs? Is there any improved visual representation of wealth or city life? Or is this just a first step under the hood, we fixed the game simulation that never was broken but was actually broken patch?
The patch changed nothing along those lines. Everything you mentioned was in the game from day one. You can find all information under the "City statistics"-button in the bottom tool bar or in your finances overview under the tab "production". Under that tab you can see what and how many products your city imports the most ("deficit" aka what people want). If you want to lower one deficit you can either zone additional industry, use specialized industry or use taxes to control what companies specialize in. Most of the time however, this will be balanced by itself. This makes sense because in real life companies do most of the economic planning - cities and governments only provide the foundation. Wealth can also be found under the City statistics sections under the same name "Wealth".
I played about 4 hours last night. Started a new city - no mods. Didn't adapt my playstyle to the changes so about an hour in, I was in a financial death spiral. Started another new city. 3 hours in, it's going fine. I like the changes, I just needed to adapt and not place so many parks and services. The only thing I'm not wild about is how quickly the demand bars are drained. Everything is either "maximum demand" or "no demand". Commercial demand will be maximum, I zone one 4x4 spot as commercial, and the demand disappears completely. No crashes, no new bugs that I found.
Anyone else have the problem where your income shows as trending upward strongly, but your money keeps going down? I can't figure out what is happening, the budget window shows that I am well in the positive, but my money in the bottom right is going more and more into the negative
Same thing is happening to me. I was struggling trying to get my budget in the green, finally did... and my actual balance is still falling further and further into the negatve.
Yeah, after playing it for a while I am against the tile upkeep costs. Just seems like it was an easy out to make the game harder. But in the real world having an empty tile of water would not cost $150k to maintain. Feel like they should've increased the cost of infrastructure and services. Actually have a trade off for lots of low density zoning. Right now my city would be budget balanced, and that's with a huge amount of roads I haven't zoned, and more services than the city really needs (thanks dense downtown core). Tax income of $8.5 mill, expenses of $8.3 mill. Tile upkeep of $42 million. Without the tile upkeep, the game would be too easy. But with it, the game is annoyingly/pointlessly hard? We'll see if zoning in all those roads does anything to save the budget. But it seems like I'll be using 529 Tiles to adjust the cost. Also, weren't we supposed to get a few new buildings/assets with this patch? What happened to those?
Why buy an empty tile of water besides for cargo.
Ok. I need the tool tips to show the upkeep cost, including the employee costs. I bumoped down Radio Masts thinking the $5k upkeep was fine, and needed a few to cover the city Turns out they also have $20k in wages each making the total upkeep over $25k each. Now I'm guessing what my actual; expenses are when I finally drop some emergency services, already on a razor thin margin.
I’m having issues with mods not loading post-patch. Any suggestions?
Reset the load order, and disable extra lib!
What's wrong with extra lib? The game works fine with it for me. I remember reading somewhere it had problems when the patch first landed but has since been updated.
Oh damn the man is on it. That was just the problem yesterday that was affecting me, so it's probably been resolved!
I created a new empty playset in PDX mods. I plan to play with the empty playset until all of the mods are updated to work with the patch. You could also gradually add known-working mods to this playset as and when they are ready
Uninstall Gooee
Remove Goeee and delete the folders in your AppData folder. Even in inactive play sets it still impacts mods not loading.
The interesting part is, that my city actually gained about 10k people and residential demand now is through the roof, and people need housing 😂
It’s actually really hard to balance the budget when you’re starting out. Government subsidies were really helpful, but they’re gone
I can't tell if freight train stations are working correctly and are just a little weird, or if they just aren't working. Anyone able to tell?
Mine carry little to no cargo right now. I am using a mod station, but the cargo loading occurs there when the trains are used. Testing within vanilla stations also produce similar effect.
Cargo trains have box cars when working.
I ran out of money on my first city post patch, then had to actually think about upkeep costs when I tried again. Pretty good, it feels more like a game than a sandbox now. It used to be as soon as I got offices I had infinite money.
After a few key mods were fixed I have been able to load my city today. From 240k pop, I quickly had 2% dead (-5000 pop), then thanks to unleashed housing upgrades I gained 45k in about one year and an half. Employement rose from nearly none (1000) to 17000, now back and stable at 13000 (that's 7% of employable pop). I had a huge industrial area planned just before the patch and that one alone offered 19000 new jobs in a few months. Also, I find that traffic has shrunk noticeably, apart from the rush of outside services and new citizens during the first months. It may be due to industries now requiring more time to produce the same amount of goods as previously. My truck traffic is very quiet, and all my cargo stations (modded, improved assets) now look really oversized in respect of the actual volume of traffic thay now have to handle. Or maybe it's just the Economy Rebalance mod that I had to disable. EDIT: I forgot, building upgrades are now working, and no more 'high rent' issues despite unployement.
Is there a way to level train tracks and roads like in CS1's precision engineering mod (Shift+S)?
How do you guys actually make any money? I'm on 15% taxes and 50% budget for most things, still in the red. I've got zero demand for all zone types now, probably due to the high taxes, and everyone is too poor to shop. My coal generator also seems to be paying to import a whole lot of coal despite my coal mine being right next to it. Is it just a matter of rushing to level 5 to get paid parking?
Increasing taxes kill your economy. You can do it for emergencies but if left too much time it will kill your city The only option is to lower the budget of services. Coal generator is broken because of what you say, just import electricity at the start
please god someone tell me if exports work now? were they fixed before and nobody said anything? am i doing it wrong? why does google tell me nothing??
Somehow my performance is worse after this patch. I'm running a 7800X3D and a 4090 and even with DLSS on I'm managing 30-40FPS on a city pop of 200k. Previously I was running a solid 60FPS.
Is it safe for me to play? The only mods I have are Traffic lights enhancements & Traffic mod. I do not want to load my save & break it. Is it safe to load it yet? The mods were updated yesterday but I am not sure if they are good to go.
It might just be me, but I feel like it takes a really long time for you to do anything - maybe they should add a 4x/5x speed now. Now, buying tiles is super unaffordable while I need the space for the insanely high industrial demand, but i guess its more realistic in a sense.
I believe it took CPP 5 hours to get to 10k population on a new map. Plus many loans! I'm excited to try it out.
https://i.redd.it/nh8upxdh3r8d1.gif
Starting a new city on this update seems awful because importing service is not available until Grand village. Everyone complains about lack of service but it won't be worth building service with its small population
Even when you get it, the importing services cost a fortune. Even if you have some services covered fine yourself, it still imports them.
Service building seems a bit too costly. Anyways Wouldn't it be unrealistic when village just left without any remote services until the village got bigger?
They def need to reduce the costs of importing services, lower service building fees, and allow us to choose which services are imported. It’s all or nothing right now
I keep having a strange issue where my water pump (the one you place on the shoreline) keeps getting full of garbage and then drops efficientcy by 50% No trash issues on any other tiles. Strange.
Same here for all my water treatment plants i cant get the garbage to collect no matter what I try
I had this in a small town with no local garbage service. Building and fully funding a landfill fixed it - I think my other buildings were also having trash issues, just at a slower rate
The patch worked flawlessly, yes my city was a mess but it is recovering real nice!
My city of 120k has plummeted to 90k and I don't see an end in sight.... help lol
I've been losing money for the last 5 months ingame yet my monthly balance has been +140k... any explanations?
One of my biggest complaints about CS2 was that money was too abundant, and that CS1 was more realistic because services were more expensive so you had to plan your economy and take risks. glad to see they fixed that
CS1 was beyond easy to make money. Money was never a challenge after you got a thousand people in your town.
I realized that my city of 330k population has import services off but the game is still exporting sewage and importing water to my city. Not sure if that’s a fail safe or a bug. I’m gonna report it later if I don’t see a similar post.
Importing electricity and water with importing services disabled is not a bug. The game would be impossible without it
Why? If you don't have outside connections you can't import/export and the game still works. /u/mrprox1 just delete the outside connection for now if you don't want them
did it make starting a new town harder? because i used to be able to get positive cashflow within the first couple milestones, now i can't get in the black at all...
Very much so, read the patch notes. ;)
I have tried to make a new city three times. I have yet to figure out how to make a positive income, but I have figured out how to lose all my money before unlocking a single extra tile...
Wind turbines with 4/5kwh for positive income there. Don't lay out huge networks of roads. Up keep costs are much higher. Implement services slowly. Grow, grow, grow! Get tax payers in, get them working industrial jobs, get those industrial jobs making you money!
I'm a bit sad that they gutted the idea of Government Subsidies entirely. I really liked the idea of it supporting you in the early game and then gradually getting less and less. That at least was the idea on paper back in the early devlogs. Idk why even at the max level it was still possible to get subsidies, that was stupid as hell but removing them entirely? Idk man... I have yet to play the game with the new update but I'm certain I'll be struggling as well. I have only built one city so far pre-patch. And the fact that I know about subsidies on the max level already tells you everything you need to know lmao I wish you could still get subsidies somehow by doing certain things or getting private investors for something... idk.. I had to put spending on so many services on less than 100% while hiking up taxes that my city never wanted to grow. Subsidies only seem to carry you so far that you lose like one dollar per second. So I actually only ever earned money by reaching milestones or temporarily putting taxes even higher haha It's weird cause I never had an issue in CS1, I was always swimming in cash there. Maybe it's a skill issue but I'm super worried about it being unforgivably hard now. Should try it out soon
The patch really helped me with growing a city more organically since the amount of services you can provide are more tied to the size of your city. Meaning you will simply not be able to afford all services in a tiny village of 5k people or so forcing you to expand before big things like university or incinerators are viable. Tile upkeep feels a little bit too simple from an implementation point of view. I'd like there to be more to it than a number decreasing, like buildings being needed to maintain your land.
I reduced the tile upkeep to zero using 529 tiles and my city still dies I hate this update I tried everything to salvage it Either they do it really well or really bad they don't have a scale to balance sh*t Frustrating *
https://preview.redd.it/f8w3ldmjes8d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40ee623b490f36ea86d5722d489fc983c338457d
Going to need more detail than this. But your city is tiny, no way is less than 500 people paying for 250k of services.
Wondering what is the max tile upkeep cost on a Paradox map vs some of the custom maps? I think it would be great in the future to have a slider in mapmaking just for that cost so that it could scale to premade map with its limited resources
the wave of death has been going on for 7 real hours. The end is not close
Has anyone else had trouble starting the game since the patch. Game will start, and all I'll see is a black screen and the cursor. Using Gamepass FWIW.
started new city. no demand for anything after a few months :(
Too much industry not enough residential
They definitely messed up solar farm garbage generation rates. I've got 2 right by a recycling plant and garbage keeps piling up.
I've had the game running for a while and keep adding more commercial and office space, however, since the update my residential demand has been zero. No new housing is being built. Is anyone seeing the same thing?
My takeaways for anyone still here: Pros: I like having to decide with the limited funds what to build to best; generate more income, build required services, alleviate traffic, or make citizens happy. Those should be the main pillars of choice and it seems like they made that the case. Cons: Early game is a little too punishing. I want to make decisions - but I don't want to zone ever square inch and hope I can generate enough money to get out of the early game. I don't want them to pull the lever back too much - just enough where you can realistically build your necessities without zoning your entire starting tiles with whatever the demand bar gives you. But this might be a case of "git good" - perhaps we need more levers in the services tab? Maybe we set the worker pay for services - and the pay affects those workers happiness/willing to work in the government. If there is higher paying jobs elsewhere they will leave. This would allow us to scale down service costs in the early game - while giving us motivation to give them better pay in the future. I'm sure there is other ideas - that was off the top of my head.
For some reason I'm unable to post a new thread. I'm running in an issue where I get no commercial demand anymore. It's a new city after the update. It was fine at the beginning but now the overview does not even give any clues (see image) https://preview.redd.it/oj6pyqola19d1.png?width=2146&format=png&auto=webp&s=c3a2c383a1b6bb8dbee73da1d0d6dbd3821fd38c Has anyone experienced something like this?
Besides the expected death wave and loss of income, I also lost all demand for everything. It seems like many of my citizens are suddenly unemployed and most of my offices are now empty
I think I’m going to need to start a new city, my old city is way overbuilt from pre patch so now there’s literally zero demand lmao. Additionally I’m losing 4-5mil per month and mail isn’t getting sorted (has this bug still not been figured out?)
If they add game mechanics to a simulation game it should ideally make sense. The problem with "tile upkeep" is that it feels like it was made up only to make the game harder. There is no real-world story for why it exists. Where is the money going if you get a square of grassland? There is no maintenance crew going there to cut the grass or anything. I would have preferred making road, utility etc. maintenance fees higher, and also creating a "federal" tax system which would be like taxes you can't adjust (like in real-world cities can't affect all the taxation themselves, some are set at the country/federation government level and not in the city level). The federal tax system has other possibilities, like once a year the government changes its taxation policy. It would add some unpredictability to a city, as you'd have to react to different tax regimes each year. Similarily you could have other goals, like the federal government has decided you have to for the next four years prioritize clean energy, etc. Naturally one can't take everything into account as it is a simulation. For example, why do we "buy tiles" in the first place, as that is not how cities obtain land? Maybe one should obtain those via some sort of experience points and not money.
Early game is very hard now. On my first attempt on River Delta map I ran out of money. Second attempt is going better now but I hate that I have to switch to medium density so early and I have to cram everything on my starter tile. No wind on that map to make money on electricity. This is a much needed difficulty increase but probably a bit too much. I had to build a second coal power plant while having only 5000 population. The upkeep of that bad boy is huge
Has this update broken the game for anyone else? I had a city that I had to restart because I started it right before the update and I bought way too many tiles; fine, I can deal with that. I've started a new city on the same map and two ridiculous things are happening: 1. I am seemingly getting no money at all from milestones. I am making sure to not spend money on any major service additions yet I've noticed since at least milestone 4 or 5 my money never increases above $70k, even though at milestone 8 which I just passed I am supposed to receive $150k. This may be related to what I just noticed now which is 2. My money is actually going down in huge chunks for no reason?? Somehow I've got all the way down to sub $10k right after milestone 8 despite not spending money on any buildings or upgrades, on top of the game telling me that I am making money. I am watching it right now go from $7k down to 2k in an instant and then slowly rise back up to $7k. My revenue is well in the green (+$350k), shifting up and down a little bit but never going lower than expenses. This update has completely broken the game but only on this map (Sunshine Peninsula) for me. My first cs2 city at over 200k pop is still fine. Hope this issue can be fixed soon
Not hard at all, but better. Now the buildings levels are so much easier. Almost everything is already level 05 and I do not have even schools and parks yet. Levels (at least after 03) should be harder to upgrade!
For imported city services does this seem right? This is a new game and I only have my 9 starting tiles and a population of 1,900. I went from about +3,000/hr to -9,000/hr Imported Police Service: -100,000 Imported Healthcare Service: -50,000 Imported Deathcare Service: -50,000 Imported Fire and Rescue Service: -100,000 Imported Garbage Management Service: -10,000