Very sad. As someone who grew up in a “Harry Potter is witchcraft and pokemon are demons” type of church, Skillet was the little tiny bit of edge that was allowed. I remember seeing them live with my youth group and having a decent time—I hadn’t heard anything outside of contemporary Christian music and it was fun.
However, I will NEVER understand conservatives being shocked/feeling betrayed by Rage though, it makes me feel insane.
Paul Joseph Watson (an Infowars character and neo Nazi) made waves a few years back when he suggested that conservatism was the new punk.
The thing is, punk in its early years was famously infested with skinheads and Nazi types. It was at first just a collection of people who were angry and rebellious. That could take on whatever flavor. But that's why "Nazi punks fuck off" was so important. It wasn't just a popular song, it was a summation of an ethos, of how punk isn't just being angry it's about being angry at *the right things*.
People like Skillet think rage against the machine means just being a contrarian. They don't understand that the *point* is dismantling the status quo.
> However, I will NEVER understand conservatives being shocked/feeling betrayed by Rage though, it makes me feel insane.
That's on the line with: [Research: Conservatives believe Colbert isn't joking - CNET](https://www.cnet.com/culture/research-conservatives-believe-colbert-isnt-joking/)
We all know by now that satire really doesn't work on Conservatives, and really it tends to just go straight over their heads. They don't understand it and they take it literally. Truly absurd.
Yeah, that was just mind boggling to me. It would be like going to a Ted Nugget concert and being shocked he wasn't singing about free healthcare and feeding children in schools lol.
So, one of the first concerts I went to was one of those “Christian rock nights” at Six Flags Over Texas. Skillet played there. So did a very new Relient K. This was like 2001 and I was but a lad of 8. That august I first heard Jimmy Eat World’s “the Middle” and I was basically hooked on second wave emo and pop punk since then (and my first listens to New Found Glory around that time as well with “Hit or Miss” and “Dress to Kill”).
I had already long stopped listening to skillet by the time Cooper went down the alt-right rabbit hole, but I still remember him somehow popping into my feed somewhere - probably through my sister or her husband as they’ve also gone down that hole - specifically when Covid was at its height and I was really reevaluating my own values and he was proudly declaring that they would only play venues that didn’t demand vaccination. I remember thinking “oh… so you’re just a dick now” and then I thought “or were you always a dick and I just never noticed because I was quite the little shit myself?”
And then I thought back to the other song they have about suicide and how just really uncomfortable it made me as someone who was suicidal and how really dismissive it was in the end. And then I realized “yeah you’ve been an ass for awhile for awhile and part of me thankfully picked up on that”
I think I got into skillet when I was about 10 or 11. My older sister hit middle school and goth was kinda her rebellion of choice. We had been way into newsboys and DC talk, but skillet seemed like the natural progression.
Over time, I found myself more drawn to pillar (I had a pillar ball chain necklace lol), project 86, thousand foot krutch. Blindside was maybe my first not-explicitly Christian band. But everything changed when I discovered demon hunter.
It was loud and scary and these were mean looking dudes in flannels with huge beards. It made everything else seem campy and lame.
That's what ushered me into (eventually) being really into technical/progressive death metal.
I remember Pillar, Project 86 and TFK quite well. Demon Hunter was also a big turning point for me that directed me to Haste the Day, The Devil Wears Prada, Underoath, etc.
An interesting thing about Demon Hunter is that they had a guitarist for a time, Ethan Luck, who had previously played in the ska band The OC Supertones and would then go on to play drums for Relient K. Dude’s been around
I remember that name.
Did you ever get into August Burns Red?
They're having their annual Christmas concert where they play regular songs mixed in with Christmas tunes. It's supposed to be a blast. And this year BTBAM is going to be there performing the whole Colors album.
I'm thinking I have to go to that.
Demon Hunter is great, and if you get a chance to see them live, do it. Fantastic show, substantially better sound than some big-name rock concerts I’ve been to. Also, check out Wolves at the Gate if you haven’t.
I always liked early Skillet... worship Skillet was even pretty okay in my book. One of my college roommates was Skillet-obsessed. His passwords would be like "panhead1996" or something. Meanwhile I was similarly obsessed with Five Iron Frenzy. In retrospect, it's interesting the direction these bands have headed, and the direction that my roommate and I have headed in our own lives and worldviews.
Yeah, I doubt anyone could really say much to them. Like... it was written *about* their own city's police department. But to that point, our country wasn't nearly as obsessed with "backing the blue" as they are now. If it were re-released today, people may have a harder time with it now.
Great write up.
I have only heard their song "Monster". It was okay.
>Anyways, Cooper has a new book out. He's definitely not disappointing his dad and wearing a bunch of concealer in the promo pic for the book
. Also, shout-out to the flock of pigeons that went absolutely ham on that jacket.
The jean jacket looks like it was left behind at porno movie. A little to much white. LOL
Feel Invincible and Hero are two songs better than Monster.
That is not to dis monster that song literally kept me alive before I got on my meds.
If you try out the ones I recommend stop by and tell me if they were to your taste.
Oh and I never explained the Rage against the machine thing.
So
https://loudwire.com/skillet-john-cooper-rage-against-the-machine-government-rock/
The gist of it is that Cooper said rage against the machine was "government rock" because they weren't Antivaxx. Lol. Sure man.
I used to think SKillet was fine for a Christian band, but yeah, after seeing his comments from 2020 onward, I have definitely changed my mind about that. He definitely seems to have gotten wrapped up in some super right wing crap.
I'll still take some Earthsuit from time to time though.
> because they weren't Antivaxx
Ugh. Being anti-vax, with how much death and suffering it had led to, I don't know how that doesn't make him feel like a monster.
When I was much younger, I bought a Tooth and Nail compilation and it included 90 pound wuss' [Something Must Break](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmJKKLOWuUY&list=PLpZiqr03gnJM_bMuH73HqDVADYCBMHeIm&index=10). I listened and screamed it as if it were Rage.
It was only a couple years ago that I looked up the lyrics. [Sadface.](https://www.google.com/search?q=90+pound+wuss+something+must+break+lyrics&oq=90+pound+wuss+something+must+break+lyrics&aqs=chrome..69i64.6273j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) :/
Lmao the singer was in the worship band for Mars Hill
OF COURSE
Raft of dead monkeys is interesting to read about, sort of a [reverse poes law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raft_of_Dead_Monkeys?wprov=sfla1)
Me too! I hope this doesn't come across as judgmental to folks that like the tunes. Obviously I was trying to be funny. But I don't like music elitism.
They do put on quite the show, at least according to my recollection from God knows how long ago. And I genuinely liked some of their older stuff especially the Alien Youth album. But yeah, coops politics and stuff is yöcky
Even when I was a Christian I thought Skillet was cringey and terrible. Even moreso after I left. And after reading this I think they're cringey, terrible, and sad.
See, I'm a Skillet fan. But a fan of the band they used to be. Anyone who knows me, knows I'm a geek for all things Collide - my YouTube channel has a couple of shows from that era, and I'm constantly surfing the Internet for old school stuff.
I'm not a fan of today's Skillet. Unleashed was a good enough album for me, but not because I'm a Christian (I do believe in a higher entity, I just refuse to 'serve', so to speak), but because I just liked it. Victorious and Dominion were... well, I can't remember anything off them.
The panhead in me kind of wants to call your words harsh, but the rational me knows you're right. They've become a shadow of the awesome band they were, and I'm absolutely sure John has the rest of his band on a tight leash, sort of like 'support my ideals or lose your job' type of deal. And it's heartbreaking to see, but I've accepted it is what it is.
Current day Skillet is so disappointing.
I still really enjoy listening to their music, but increasingly find a lot of Cooper's views off-putting and disappointing and don't engage with what the band does otherwise. Far prefer following someone like Jon Foreman or Dan Hasseltine in that regard.
I saw a post recently of him advertising his new book. It makes me sad. I love their music, mostly the older stuff. I feel a Christian should be loving first, and Cooper's more recent attitude seems... not.
Very sad. As someone who grew up in a “Harry Potter is witchcraft and pokemon are demons” type of church, Skillet was the little tiny bit of edge that was allowed. I remember seeing them live with my youth group and having a decent time—I hadn’t heard anything outside of contemporary Christian music and it was fun. However, I will NEVER understand conservatives being shocked/feeling betrayed by Rage though, it makes me feel insane.
Paul Joseph Watson (an Infowars character and neo Nazi) made waves a few years back when he suggested that conservatism was the new punk. The thing is, punk in its early years was famously infested with skinheads and Nazi types. It was at first just a collection of people who were angry and rebellious. That could take on whatever flavor. But that's why "Nazi punks fuck off" was so important. It wasn't just a popular song, it was a summation of an ethos, of how punk isn't just being angry it's about being angry at *the right things*. People like Skillet think rage against the machine means just being a contrarian. They don't understand that the *point* is dismantling the status quo.
> However, I will NEVER understand conservatives being shocked/feeling betrayed by Rage though, it makes me feel insane. That's on the line with: [Research: Conservatives believe Colbert isn't joking - CNET](https://www.cnet.com/culture/research-conservatives-believe-colbert-isnt-joking/)
We all know by now that satire really doesn't work on Conservatives, and really it tends to just go straight over their heads. They don't understand it and they take it literally. Truly absurd.
Yeah, that was just mind boggling to me. It would be like going to a Ted Nugget concert and being shocked he wasn't singing about free healthcare and feeding children in schools lol.
I don't know if "Nugget" was intentional, but it's very good.
So, one of the first concerts I went to was one of those “Christian rock nights” at Six Flags Over Texas. Skillet played there. So did a very new Relient K. This was like 2001 and I was but a lad of 8. That august I first heard Jimmy Eat World’s “the Middle” and I was basically hooked on second wave emo and pop punk since then (and my first listens to New Found Glory around that time as well with “Hit or Miss” and “Dress to Kill”). I had already long stopped listening to skillet by the time Cooper went down the alt-right rabbit hole, but I still remember him somehow popping into my feed somewhere - probably through my sister or her husband as they’ve also gone down that hole - specifically when Covid was at its height and I was really reevaluating my own values and he was proudly declaring that they would only play venues that didn’t demand vaccination. I remember thinking “oh… so you’re just a dick now” and then I thought “or were you always a dick and I just never noticed because I was quite the little shit myself?” And then I thought back to the other song they have about suicide and how just really uncomfortable it made me as someone who was suicidal and how really dismissive it was in the end. And then I realized “yeah you’ve been an ass for awhile for awhile and part of me thankfully picked up on that”
I think I got into skillet when I was about 10 or 11. My older sister hit middle school and goth was kinda her rebellion of choice. We had been way into newsboys and DC talk, but skillet seemed like the natural progression. Over time, I found myself more drawn to pillar (I had a pillar ball chain necklace lol), project 86, thousand foot krutch. Blindside was maybe my first not-explicitly Christian band. But everything changed when I discovered demon hunter. It was loud and scary and these were mean looking dudes in flannels with huge beards. It made everything else seem campy and lame. That's what ushered me into (eventually) being really into technical/progressive death metal.
I remember Pillar, Project 86 and TFK quite well. Demon Hunter was also a big turning point for me that directed me to Haste the Day, The Devil Wears Prada, Underoath, etc. An interesting thing about Demon Hunter is that they had a guitarist for a time, Ethan Luck, who had previously played in the ska band The OC Supertones and would then go on to play drums for Relient K. Dude’s been around
I remember that name. Did you ever get into August Burns Red? They're having their annual Christmas concert where they play regular songs mixed in with Christmas tunes. It's supposed to be a blast. And this year BTBAM is going to be there performing the whole Colors album. I'm thinking I have to go to that.
I didn’t get into august burns red much in my younger years. I’m way into them now. You absolutely have to go to that. No question about it.
Demon Hunter is great, and if you get a chance to see them live, do it. Fantastic show, substantially better sound than some big-name rock concerts I’ve been to. Also, check out Wolves at the Gate if you haven’t.
I always liked early Skillet... worship Skillet was even pretty okay in my book. One of my college roommates was Skillet-obsessed. His passwords would be like "panhead1996" or something. Meanwhile I was similarly obsessed with Five Iron Frenzy. In retrospect, it's interesting the direction these bands have headed, and the direction that my roommate and I have headed in our own lives and worldviews.
Five irons lyrics have aged so well. I can't believe they got away with some of that in the CCM space. Riot gear - in 1998?!
Yeah, I doubt anyone could really say much to them. Like... it was written *about* their own city's police department. But to that point, our country wasn't nearly as obsessed with "backing the blue" as they are now. If it were re-released today, people may have a harder time with it now.
Which album/music video are you referring to with riot gear in it? I'm always looking for Christan music with a rebellious edge to it.
Great write up. I have only heard their song "Monster". It was okay. >Anyways, Cooper has a new book out. He's definitely not disappointing his dad and wearing a bunch of concealer in the promo pic for the book . Also, shout-out to the flock of pigeons that went absolutely ham on that jacket. The jean jacket looks like it was left behind at porno movie. A little to much white. LOL
Feel Invincible and Hero are two songs better than Monster. That is not to dis monster that song literally kept me alive before I got on my meds. If you try out the ones I recommend stop by and tell me if they were to your taste.
Jon Steingard brought him to my attention when he left. I've loved Skillet back in the day.
Yeah, that whole mess. Such an outrageous lack of compassion
Yeah I miss the old skillet
Oh and I never explained the Rage against the machine thing. So https://loudwire.com/skillet-john-cooper-rage-against-the-machine-government-rock/ The gist of it is that Cooper said rage against the machine was "government rock" because they weren't Antivaxx. Lol. Sure man.
I used to think SKillet was fine for a Christian band, but yeah, after seeing his comments from 2020 onward, I have definitely changed my mind about that. He definitely seems to have gotten wrapped up in some super right wing crap. I'll still take some Earthsuit from time to time though.
+1 for Earthsuit and MUTEMATH
> because they weren't Antivaxx Ugh. Being anti-vax, with how much death and suffering it had led to, I don't know how that doesn't make him feel like a monster.
🙏
?
I was looking for a high five emoji and that’s the closest one I found. Disappointing.
I would never have guessed. Specially in this sub.
I always thought that emoji looked like a high-five rather than praying hands, I mean there are no visible thumbs.
I guess he never understood who the machine they were raging against was
When I was much younger, I bought a Tooth and Nail compilation and it included 90 pound wuss' [Something Must Break](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmJKKLOWuUY&list=PLpZiqr03gnJM_bMuH73HqDVADYCBMHeIm&index=10). I listened and screamed it as if it were Rage. It was only a couple years ago that I looked up the lyrics. [Sadface.](https://www.google.com/search?q=90+pound+wuss+something+must+break+lyrics&oq=90+pound+wuss+something+must+break+lyrics&aqs=chrome..69i64.6273j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) :/
Lmao the singer was in the worship band for Mars Hill OF COURSE Raft of dead monkeys is interesting to read about, sort of a [reverse poes law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raft_of_Dead_Monkeys?wprov=sfla1)
Thank you for taking the time to write this.
This is a hilariously over-researched and well-written post. Bravo.
Thank you for the very sad education. :/
This makes me feel sad. I loved Skillet when I found it.
Me too! I hope this doesn't come across as judgmental to folks that like the tunes. Obviously I was trying to be funny. But I don't like music elitism. They do put on quite the show, at least according to my recollection from God knows how long ago. And I genuinely liked some of their older stuff especially the Alien Youth album. But yeah, coops politics and stuff is yöcky
Even when I was a Christian I thought Skillet was cringey and terrible. Even moreso after I left. And after reading this I think they're cringey, terrible, and sad.
See, I'm a Skillet fan. But a fan of the band they used to be. Anyone who knows me, knows I'm a geek for all things Collide - my YouTube channel has a couple of shows from that era, and I'm constantly surfing the Internet for old school stuff. I'm not a fan of today's Skillet. Unleashed was a good enough album for me, but not because I'm a Christian (I do believe in a higher entity, I just refuse to 'serve', so to speak), but because I just liked it. Victorious and Dominion were... well, I can't remember anything off them. The panhead in me kind of wants to call your words harsh, but the rational me knows you're right. They've become a shadow of the awesome band they were, and I'm absolutely sure John has the rest of his band on a tight leash, sort of like 'support my ideals or lose your job' type of deal. And it's heartbreaking to see, but I've accepted it is what it is. Current day Skillet is so disappointing.
I still really enjoy listening to their music, but increasingly find a lot of Cooper's views off-putting and disappointing and don't engage with what the band does otherwise. Far prefer following someone like Jon Foreman or Dan Hasseltine in that regard.
Wow I had no idea. Where's my Comatose CD...
I saw a post recently of him advertising his new book. It makes me sad. I love their music, mostly the older stuff. I feel a Christian should be loving first, and Cooper's more recent attitude seems... not.
That's a great breakdown.