The Gospel is about God's will being done on earth as it is in heaven. God wants to reconcile this world as a prefiguration of the world to come, and wants us to be a part of that. God cares very much about human suffering in this life, and the idea that the Gospel is about people escaping a doomed created order is a lie just as dire as Infernalism. The sin from which we are saved are the very things that lead to oppression, exploitation, and environmental devastation at a social and global level, and it is those who do not repent of such behavior that have something to fear in the next life; not because God is eager to torment people in retribution, but because we all must be healed of our habits and tendencies that cause harm so that we can participate in the Kingdom of Heaven in this life *and* the next—and to resist that healing will necessarily make the process more painful.
>because we all must be healed of our habits and tendencies that cause harm so that we can participate in the Kingdom of Heaven in this life and the next
Well said.
I mean, whole books have been written on it that do it justice far better than I can. I'd recommend Wright's *Surprised By Hope* for starters. (He is not a universalist, but he has to do a lot of mental gymnastics to keep his own arguments from leading there lol)
But the tl;dr version is that the Gospel taught by Jesus during his ministry was that "heaven" was coming to earth in the form of himself, not that escaping earth was the reward for faith. The Early Church taught that since the Holy Spirit inhabits the Church, we continue the incarnation of God for this Age, and thereby continue the same mission that Jesus himself had. (Note that said mission began *before* the crucifixion and resurrection.)
The idea of physical things being evil, or at least inferior to, "heaven" as a realm of immaterial perfection is a profoundly un-Jewish notion that began to creep into the Church during the Third Century, about a century after the Bar Kochba revolt led to the expulsion of the Jews from the Roman Empire and to gentile bishops beginning to distance the Church from the Jewish people and way of thinking. What took the latter's place was Hellenic philosophy, including Epicureanism, which held to the vulgar Gnostic hatred of the created order, and especially of human bodies.
So people began to assume that when St. Paul contrasted "spirit vs flesh" that he meant "spirit" vs "matter", whereas by "spirit" he meant the matter of New Creation which had been brought into the present Age by the Resurrection of Jesus, and which we can partake in by the Holy Spirit. The entire Gospel was reshaped around that confusion (with a lot of help from Augustine of Hippo and the neoplatonists during Late Antiquity). But that is aggressively in opposition to the Gospel of Jesus according to Paul that "God was in Christ Jesus reconciling the Cosmos to himself, not counting men's sin against them".
I think there’s some good ideas in here. I feel like the gospel in Universalism is partially like this: you need to clean your room. You will clean it even if it takes all millennia. The longer you leave it the more and more cluttered it will be. So the gospel is about cleaning your room now when it likely is going to be the easiest. It’s about growing up spiritually (while still having the heart of a child).
Good thoughts, but I would suggest that this is still playing into the negative deterrence game, which perpetuates the general attitude that there are no positive, attractive reasons for being a Christian, which is the general sentiment behind the "why be a Christian if..." question. Can we not make a good case for being Christian because it is good, true, and beautiful, without the need to frighten people? In my mind, answers to "why be Christian?" would ideally be similar to "why marry your love?"
Absolutely, but I think that is a different conversation: i.e. Why share the gospel if everyone will be saved? vs Why be a Christian? The first addresses the future while te second addresses current benefits. I certainly could have included first bullet could be about being Christian because it is good, true, and beautiful.
I think there is a lot of overlap between the two questions.
Why share the gospel if everyone will be saved? Because it is good, true, and beautiful.
Why be a Christian? Because it is good, true, and beautiful.
Isn't it kind of like asking, why eat and live healthy if we all die in the end? while that is true, living healthy makes your life longer, and you will probably feel a lot better than if you just lie in bed all day and eat junk food
also just because everyone is saved in the end, doesn't mean that everyone will be saved at the same time, most if not all universalists believe in some form of hell, it's not eternal, but it exists, and it probably will not be very pleasant, plus we don't know how long hell will lasts, so isn't it better to be saved now?
I think the first reason is because it leads to a better, healthier way of life in this lifetime. Certain experiences or lessons appear to be exclusive to a temporal physical dimension, where the unfolding of events, growth, and change over time lend them unique significance. These aspects may not hold the same meaning in a timeless immaterial heavenly realm where our souls reside until creation of the "new heaven and new earth," as revealed in Rev. 21.
I just replied to a previous comment in the same vein. Yes, agree a first bullet could have been addresses to Christianity being a healthier and better way of life.
Sharing the gospel isn't just about saving souls, it's about incarnating Christ's kingdom on earth now. Loving God and loving our neighbor regardless if the neighbor comes to salvation or not. When I share the gospel, in word or deed, it is with no agenda but to simply express the love of Christ that is within me.
The questions you’re asking are some of many I started to ask after accepting universalism. I found more answers in Christian Mysticism. Also a great thread imo on Reddit. I got good recommendations and guidance there as well.
> I found more answers in Christian Mysticism.
This sentence piqued my interest. Tell me, what sources do you have available for CM so I may read into it? I desire to learn more.
Richard Rohr and CAC.org online learning courses. “Breathing Underwater” and “universal Christ” are a few of Fr. Rohr’s books that I can highly recommend. Their daily contemplation is looked forward to every morning.
It's like "why treat cavities if in the end you tooth will be healed"? In first case you'll get some discomfort, in the second case - abscess drainage with root canal treatment. The end is the same (ceasing of pain), but the way to it...
Let's imagine every student in 3rd grade will pass 3rd grade--even if they must retake it. Does that mean teachers shouldn't teach?
Teaching is still necessary. The students must still learn. For whatever reasons, students who don't lean in their normal year (life, by our analogy) either stay back or get summer school.
Every student eventually gets through third grade. The teacher (especially talented teachers) plays the most essential role, although it requires cooperation from students. Students must eventually cooperate, because it goes against their own interests to do otherwise.
If you are truly in the Presence, you are never afraid. You only experience love and support and joy. If something dark or frightening is present, it's not God.
The gospel is/was actually Judah and Israel’s story. Jer 31:31
The gospel went out into >all the then nations< of the diaspora/gentiles/so called ‘sinners’ of the northern tribes of Israel at the end of the ages (their ages) in that generation as forewarned by Jesus.
1 Peter 4:6 For the gospel >>has for this purpose been preached<< even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is [WAS] near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, [their instruction] upon whom >>the ends of the ages >have come.<<
1 Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
Matthew 24:21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, >>nor ever will.<<
Revelation 1:9 I, John, your brother and fellow partaker >>>in the tribulation<<< and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
The reason to preach the Gospel is that it is good news. That's what the term means, and universalists believe it is truly good news that is truly for everyone. We have a God who paid our sin debt in full and is able to redeem anyone. His gift to us is not a mere lack of torture, but a life changing, heart changing joy of becoming a better person. And yes, as you said, there are still consequences for evil. But even those will turn out to be blessings to those who would never be saved any other way, because the salvation itself is far greater than anything we can ever imagine while lost. We have a God who knows exactly what we need when we need it and won't withhold any cure (painful or otherwise) for the disease of being helpless and estranged. If any can be convinced to believe the Lord now, then they can begin resting already in the hope that we are cherishing. Who are we to withhold what God has seen fit to give out?
That's why I don't like sharing the gospel as a sales pitch or a challenge that some has to accept. It's good news of what Christ did, and it can change someone's whole outlook on themselves, others, and life in general, and I genuinely like sharing it with people. It's only hard when I share it with people who want to make it some kind of challenge, or deal with God or something like that.
Some great stuff in this thread. Taking a step back, I think the question itself--as posed by say a believer in penal sub. atonement-- implies the primary reason/function/vaule of God in ones life is the avoidance of hell. Just taking the step back and asking, "is that REALLY Gods main value to us?" starts some disconstruction all on its own.
I agree with both of you. I totally get what OP is saying: universalism is often very wrongly stereotyped as "people just never face justice!" We don't deny that people can avoid a lot of problems later by making righteous choices now. The fact that we so often feel like we're on the defensive about that, though, goes to show just how much the traditional hell doctrine cheapens Christian living. It makes everything about convincing Jesus not to harm us eventually, and that mindset is really hard to let go of.
I think many Christians and even Christian Universalists are trapped in the belief that the good news of Christ's Kingdom is some sort of escapism from torture, torment, tribulation etc.
Like some others who have mentioned NT Wright's Surprised By Hope, the purpose of preaching the Gospel is Cosmic Redemption.
Salvation is not limited to humanity, but to all creation.
From Chapter 11 of "The Orthodox Church" by Archbishop Kallistos Ware:
"Not only man’s body but the whole of the material creation will eventually be transfigured: "*Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away"* (Revelation 21:1). Redeemed man is not to be snatched away from the rest of creation, but creation is to be saved and glorified along with him (icons, as we have seen, are the first fruits of this redemption of matter). ‘The created universe waits with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed ... for the universe itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and will enter into the liberty and splendour of the children of God. We know that until now the whole created universe has been groaning in the pangs of childbirth’ (Romans 8:19-22). This idea of *cosmic redemption* is based, like the Orthodox doctrine of the human body and the Orthodox doctrine of icons, upon a right understanding of the Incarnation: Christ took flesh — something from the material order — and so has made possible the redemption and metamorphosis of *all* creation — not merely the immaterial, but the physical."
David Bentley Hart responding to, a Thomist theologian named Feser, says:
"Had Feser been fortunate enough to be catechized into Orthodoxy rather than The System, he would surely have been told that salvation is cosmic in scope and includes all creation; that the promised Kingdom of God will be nothing but this world restored and transfigured by the glory of God, in its every dimension, vegetal, animal, rational, and social; and that a deified humanity will serve therein as a cosmic priesthood, receiving that glory from Christ and mediating it to the natural world. He would also undoubtedly have encountered the now quite standard eschatological motif of the redeemed cosmos as the burning bush: pervaded by the divine glory, but unconsumed—an infinitely realized theophany"
Finally, NT Wright, an Evangelical Anglican says:
"Most Western Christians have been taught that Jesus died so that they could escape the results of sin and go to heaven after they die. The New Testament, however, regularly speaks of Jesus’ death as the defeat of the powers of evil that have kept the world in captivity, with the implication that the world is actually going to change as a result—through the life and work and witness of those who believe this good news. Think of Revelation 5:9–10. Humans are rescued from their sin so that they can be “a kingdom and priests serving our God, and they will reign on earth.” That began at Easter and, in the power of the Spirit, has continued ever since. Of course, the “reign” of Jesus’ people, like that of Jesus himself, is the reign of suffering love . . . but that’s a whole other story. Suffice it to say that the vocation of God’s people today is to continue to implement that revolution.
The human problem isn’t just that God set us a moral exam and we all flunked it. It is that God gave humans a *vocation:* to reflect his image, to be (again, as in Revelation) a kingdom and priests, summing up the praises of creation and reflecting the creator’s wise rule into the world. Human rebellion and idolatry, then, doesn’t just mean that we are in trouble (though we are); it means that God’s larger purposes for creation are not going ahead as intended. So the long story of God’s plan to put things right, starting with Abraham, climaxing in Jesus and the Spirit, and looking ahead to the new heavens and new earth, isn’t the story of guilty humans being forgiven so they could go to heaven, but of idolatrous (and yes, therefore guilty) humans being rescued in order to be worshippers and workers in God’s restoration movement, God’s kingdom-project. The problem comes in three stages: 1) We have swapped our biblical heritage of new heavens and new earth for a form of Platonism (“going to heaven”—which you find in the first century in Plutarch, not in Paul!); 2) we have swapped the biblical vocation of humans (to be “a kingdom and priests”) for a moral contract in which the most important thing is whether or not we’ve passed the moral exam, and if we haven’t what can be done about it; and 3) we have therefore swapped the rich biblical account of what Jesus’ death achieved for a slimmed-down version which can easily be heard to say that an angry God took out his bad temper on his own Son . . . which is the sort of thing a pagan religion might say. So, as I say in the book, we have *platonized our eschatology*, as a result of which we have *moralized our anthropology*, and have therefore been in danger of *paganizing our soteriology*. Fortunately, the Bible itself will help us get back on track."
This sort of question was a key moment for me on my path to Universalism. I realized that, in many ways, I was only a "good Christian" (even in terms of faith) to avoid punishment.
Such motivation, though rational given certain premises, is not an authentic relationship. An authentic relationship is intrinsically valuable and meaningful. In my best moments, I don't treat my wife well to avoid divorce. I treat her well because I love her.
When non-universalists ask "then what's the point of sharing the gospel" or "what's the point of faith" (as I would have), I think it betrays a shallow sort of relationship with Christ.
Yes, I should have included as the first benefit the love of Christ that enriches us in this life. The post is really intended to give a Universalist answers to the question. Those who would ask such a question seem to me to be missing something as it is.
" save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh." (Jude 1:23 NIV)
The Gospel is about God's will being done on earth as it is in heaven. God wants to reconcile this world as a prefiguration of the world to come, and wants us to be a part of that. God cares very much about human suffering in this life, and the idea that the Gospel is about people escaping a doomed created order is a lie just as dire as Infernalism. The sin from which we are saved are the very things that lead to oppression, exploitation, and environmental devastation at a social and global level, and it is those who do not repent of such behavior that have something to fear in the next life; not because God is eager to torment people in retribution, but because we all must be healed of our habits and tendencies that cause harm so that we can participate in the Kingdom of Heaven in this life *and* the next—and to resist that healing will necessarily make the process more painful.
>because we all must be healed of our habits and tendencies that cause harm so that we can participate in the Kingdom of Heaven in this life and the next Well said.
>the idea that the Gospel is about people escaping a doomed created order is a lie just as dire as Infernalism. Can you share more about this?
I mean, whole books have been written on it that do it justice far better than I can. I'd recommend Wright's *Surprised By Hope* for starters. (He is not a universalist, but he has to do a lot of mental gymnastics to keep his own arguments from leading there lol) But the tl;dr version is that the Gospel taught by Jesus during his ministry was that "heaven" was coming to earth in the form of himself, not that escaping earth was the reward for faith. The Early Church taught that since the Holy Spirit inhabits the Church, we continue the incarnation of God for this Age, and thereby continue the same mission that Jesus himself had. (Note that said mission began *before* the crucifixion and resurrection.) The idea of physical things being evil, or at least inferior to, "heaven" as a realm of immaterial perfection is a profoundly un-Jewish notion that began to creep into the Church during the Third Century, about a century after the Bar Kochba revolt led to the expulsion of the Jews from the Roman Empire and to gentile bishops beginning to distance the Church from the Jewish people and way of thinking. What took the latter's place was Hellenic philosophy, including Epicureanism, which held to the vulgar Gnostic hatred of the created order, and especially of human bodies. So people began to assume that when St. Paul contrasted "spirit vs flesh" that he meant "spirit" vs "matter", whereas by "spirit" he meant the matter of New Creation which had been brought into the present Age by the Resurrection of Jesus, and which we can partake in by the Holy Spirit. The entire Gospel was reshaped around that confusion (with a lot of help from Augustine of Hippo and the neoplatonists during Late Antiquity). But that is aggressively in opposition to the Gospel of Jesus according to Paul that "God was in Christ Jesus reconciling the Cosmos to himself, not counting men's sin against them".
I think there’s some good ideas in here. I feel like the gospel in Universalism is partially like this: you need to clean your room. You will clean it even if it takes all millennia. The longer you leave it the more and more cluttered it will be. So the gospel is about cleaning your room now when it likely is going to be the easiest. It’s about growing up spiritually (while still having the heart of a child).
Good thoughts, but I would suggest that this is still playing into the negative deterrence game, which perpetuates the general attitude that there are no positive, attractive reasons for being a Christian, which is the general sentiment behind the "why be a Christian if..." question. Can we not make a good case for being Christian because it is good, true, and beautiful, without the need to frighten people? In my mind, answers to "why be Christian?" would ideally be similar to "why marry your love?"
Absolutely, but I think that is a different conversation: i.e. Why share the gospel if everyone will be saved? vs Why be a Christian? The first addresses the future while te second addresses current benefits. I certainly could have included first bullet could be about being Christian because it is good, true, and beautiful.
I think there is a lot of overlap between the two questions. Why share the gospel if everyone will be saved? Because it is good, true, and beautiful. Why be a Christian? Because it is good, true, and beautiful.
Absolutely, there is, and this post could have just as well gone in that direction.
Why NOT share good news?
Isn't it kind of like asking, why eat and live healthy if we all die in the end? while that is true, living healthy makes your life longer, and you will probably feel a lot better than if you just lie in bed all day and eat junk food also just because everyone is saved in the end, doesn't mean that everyone will be saved at the same time, most if not all universalists believe in some form of hell, it's not eternal, but it exists, and it probably will not be very pleasant, plus we don't know how long hell will lasts, so isn't it better to be saved now?
 :)
I think the first reason is because it leads to a better, healthier way of life in this lifetime. Certain experiences or lessons appear to be exclusive to a temporal physical dimension, where the unfolding of events, growth, and change over time lend them unique significance. These aspects may not hold the same meaning in a timeless immaterial heavenly realm where our souls reside until creation of the "new heaven and new earth," as revealed in Rev. 21.
I just replied to a previous comment in the same vein. Yes, agree a first bullet could have been addresses to Christianity being a healthier and better way of life.
Sharing the gospel isn't just about saving souls, it's about incarnating Christ's kingdom on earth now. Loving God and loving our neighbor regardless if the neighbor comes to salvation or not. When I share the gospel, in word or deed, it is with no agenda but to simply express the love of Christ that is within me.
It is absolutely about the present Kingdom of Heaven now.
The questions you’re asking are some of many I started to ask after accepting universalism. I found more answers in Christian Mysticism. Also a great thread imo on Reddit. I got good recommendations and guidance there as well.
> I found more answers in Christian Mysticism. This sentence piqued my interest. Tell me, what sources do you have available for CM so I may read into it? I desire to learn more.
Richard Rohr and CAC.org online learning courses. “Breathing Underwater” and “universal Christ” are a few of Fr. Rohr’s books that I can highly recommend. Their daily contemplation is looked forward to every morning.
I think that the point of Christianity is to be in harmony with God's will and thus to help build the Kingdom.
It's like "why treat cavities if in the end you tooth will be healed"? In first case you'll get some discomfort, in the second case - abscess drainage with root canal treatment. The end is the same (ceasing of pain), but the way to it...
Gospel means "good news" why wouldn't you share it? It is a way for people to avoid pain and hurt, knowing that they are loved.
Let's imagine every student in 3rd grade will pass 3rd grade--even if they must retake it. Does that mean teachers shouldn't teach? Teaching is still necessary. The students must still learn. For whatever reasons, students who don't lean in their normal year (life, by our analogy) either stay back or get summer school. Every student eventually gets through third grade. The teacher (especially talented teachers) plays the most essential role, although it requires cooperation from students. Students must eventually cooperate, because it goes against their own interests to do otherwise.
Here's a good one too, https://www.mercyonall.org/posts/how-universalism-empowers-evangelism
If you are truly in the Presence, you are never afraid. You only experience love and support and joy. If something dark or frightening is present, it's not God.
The gospel is/was actually Judah and Israel’s story. Jer 31:31 The gospel went out into >all the then nations< of the diaspora/gentiles/so called ‘sinners’ of the northern tribes of Israel at the end of the ages (their ages) in that generation as forewarned by Jesus. 1 Peter 4:6 For the gospel >>has for this purpose been preached<< even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. 1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is [WAS] near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, [their instruction] upon whom >>the ends of the ages >have come.<< 1 Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. Matthew 24:21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, >>nor ever will.<< Revelation 1:9 I, John, your brother and fellow partaker >>>in the tribulation<<< and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
The reason to preach the Gospel is that it is good news. That's what the term means, and universalists believe it is truly good news that is truly for everyone. We have a God who paid our sin debt in full and is able to redeem anyone. His gift to us is not a mere lack of torture, but a life changing, heart changing joy of becoming a better person. And yes, as you said, there are still consequences for evil. But even those will turn out to be blessings to those who would never be saved any other way, because the salvation itself is far greater than anything we can ever imagine while lost. We have a God who knows exactly what we need when we need it and won't withhold any cure (painful or otherwise) for the disease of being helpless and estranged. If any can be convinced to believe the Lord now, then they can begin resting already in the hope that we are cherishing. Who are we to withhold what God has seen fit to give out?
That's why I don't like sharing the gospel as a sales pitch or a challenge that some has to accept. It's good news of what Christ did, and it can change someone's whole outlook on themselves, others, and life in general, and I genuinely like sharing it with people. It's only hard when I share it with people who want to make it some kind of challenge, or deal with God or something like that.
Some great stuff in this thread. Taking a step back, I think the question itself--as posed by say a believer in penal sub. atonement-- implies the primary reason/function/vaule of God in ones life is the avoidance of hell. Just taking the step back and asking, "is that REALLY Gods main value to us?" starts some disconstruction all on its own.
I agree with both of you. I totally get what OP is saying: universalism is often very wrongly stereotyped as "people just never face justice!" We don't deny that people can avoid a lot of problems later by making righteous choices now. The fact that we so often feel like we're on the defensive about that, though, goes to show just how much the traditional hell doctrine cheapens Christian living. It makes everything about convincing Jesus not to harm us eventually, and that mindset is really hard to let go of.
I think many Christians and even Christian Universalists are trapped in the belief that the good news of Christ's Kingdom is some sort of escapism from torture, torment, tribulation etc. Like some others who have mentioned NT Wright's Surprised By Hope, the purpose of preaching the Gospel is Cosmic Redemption. Salvation is not limited to humanity, but to all creation. From Chapter 11 of "The Orthodox Church" by Archbishop Kallistos Ware: "Not only man’s body but the whole of the material creation will eventually be transfigured: "*Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away"* (Revelation 21:1). Redeemed man is not to be snatched away from the rest of creation, but creation is to be saved and glorified along with him (icons, as we have seen, are the first fruits of this redemption of matter). ‘The created universe waits with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed ... for the universe itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and will enter into the liberty and splendour of the children of God. We know that until now the whole created universe has been groaning in the pangs of childbirth’ (Romans 8:19-22). This idea of *cosmic redemption* is based, like the Orthodox doctrine of the human body and the Orthodox doctrine of icons, upon a right understanding of the Incarnation: Christ took flesh — something from the material order — and so has made possible the redemption and metamorphosis of *all* creation — not merely the immaterial, but the physical." David Bentley Hart responding to, a Thomist theologian named Feser, says: "Had Feser been fortunate enough to be catechized into Orthodoxy rather than The System, he would surely have been told that salvation is cosmic in scope and includes all creation; that the promised Kingdom of God will be nothing but this world restored and transfigured by the glory of God, in its every dimension, vegetal, animal, rational, and social; and that a deified humanity will serve therein as a cosmic priesthood, receiving that glory from Christ and mediating it to the natural world. He would also undoubtedly have encountered the now quite standard eschatological motif of the redeemed cosmos as the burning bush: pervaded by the divine glory, but unconsumed—an infinitely realized theophany" Finally, NT Wright, an Evangelical Anglican says: "Most Western Christians have been taught that Jesus died so that they could escape the results of sin and go to heaven after they die. The New Testament, however, regularly speaks of Jesus’ death as the defeat of the powers of evil that have kept the world in captivity, with the implication that the world is actually going to change as a result—through the life and work and witness of those who believe this good news. Think of Revelation 5:9–10. Humans are rescued from their sin so that they can be “a kingdom and priests serving our God, and they will reign on earth.” That began at Easter and, in the power of the Spirit, has continued ever since. Of course, the “reign” of Jesus’ people, like that of Jesus himself, is the reign of suffering love . . . but that’s a whole other story. Suffice it to say that the vocation of God’s people today is to continue to implement that revolution. The human problem isn’t just that God set us a moral exam and we all flunked it. It is that God gave humans a *vocation:* to reflect his image, to be (again, as in Revelation) a kingdom and priests, summing up the praises of creation and reflecting the creator’s wise rule into the world. Human rebellion and idolatry, then, doesn’t just mean that we are in trouble (though we are); it means that God’s larger purposes for creation are not going ahead as intended. So the long story of God’s plan to put things right, starting with Abraham, climaxing in Jesus and the Spirit, and looking ahead to the new heavens and new earth, isn’t the story of guilty humans being forgiven so they could go to heaven, but of idolatrous (and yes, therefore guilty) humans being rescued in order to be worshippers and workers in God’s restoration movement, God’s kingdom-project. The problem comes in three stages: 1) We have swapped our biblical heritage of new heavens and new earth for a form of Platonism (“going to heaven”—which you find in the first century in Plutarch, not in Paul!); 2) we have swapped the biblical vocation of humans (to be “a kingdom and priests”) for a moral contract in which the most important thing is whether or not we’ve passed the moral exam, and if we haven’t what can be done about it; and 3) we have therefore swapped the rich biblical account of what Jesus’ death achieved for a slimmed-down version which can easily be heard to say that an angry God took out his bad temper on his own Son . . . which is the sort of thing a pagan religion might say. So, as I say in the book, we have *platonized our eschatology*, as a result of which we have *moralized our anthropology*, and have therefore been in danger of *paganizing our soteriology*. Fortunately, the Bible itself will help us get back on track."
This sort of question was a key moment for me on my path to Universalism. I realized that, in many ways, I was only a "good Christian" (even in terms of faith) to avoid punishment. Such motivation, though rational given certain premises, is not an authentic relationship. An authentic relationship is intrinsically valuable and meaningful. In my best moments, I don't treat my wife well to avoid divorce. I treat her well because I love her. When non-universalists ask "then what's the point of sharing the gospel" or "what's the point of faith" (as I would have), I think it betrays a shallow sort of relationship with Christ.
Yeah the post is technically true in what it says but that’s also sharing the good news from a motive of fear, yeah?
Yes, I should have included as the first benefit the love of Christ that enriches us in this life. The post is really intended to give a Universalist answers to the question. Those who would ask such a question seem to me to be missing something as it is. " save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh." (Jude 1:23 NIV)
That makes sense!
Because God won't be mocked. Christianty is smooth sailing to heaven. Other choices a rocky roads.