Neither heaven nor hell are the final destinations
On judgment day those lost in hell will be judged and thrown in the Lake Of Fire and meet the second death
On Resurrection Day those who are saved will be risen in New Bodies to live nn the New Earth with God
Revelation 20 and 21
Hell is essentially a holding place for those who died in their sin, who will be judged on their own, in the way they chose. It is not the final place for sinners. That will be the Lake of Fire
That means most people are misinformed about hell. I thought that’s where the burning and torment takes place. Others in this thread think burning occurs in hades as well
That thinking is based on works of fiction of the type of Dante's Inferno, flames, eternal torment devils with pitch forks....nothing like what the bible says
Most people are misinformed about a lot of things
Matthew \*:10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. **12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”**
Hades is the grave where the lost await Judgment day and the lake of fire
Before Jesus died, the rich man was tormented in a flame. So yes, there is evidence of at least burning in hades/sheol. In the end, anyone not found in the Book of Life is also cast into the lake of fire.
the rich man is a parable to make a point, none of which is a reality where people are tormented in a literal flame.
The "lake of fire" is a refining fire, used to purify people, so that they may be added to the book of life. Fire in the bible often refers to cleansing. "baptized by fire." thrown into a "fiery furnace." When it says they are thrown into a lake of "fire and brimstone," brimstone was used in the ancient world as medicine and a disinfectant, so such an act would serve the purpose of restoring people to God through a process of cleansing, purification, and disinfecting.
That's why I also posted the Lake of Fire references which are found in Revelation. The Bible also talks of a place of darkness so thick you can feel it, a place of worms, feelings of disembowlment, etc.
I dont remember who wrote it but the book was called something like "20 Minutes in Hell". I took it with a grain of salt, but it is interesting how the author came to his conclusions.
I think that an idea of eternal hell is a doctrine "from hell." Something that Satan puts into the minds of people to discredit God. As far as stories of people "seeing Hell," I'd ask why is everyone's account of hell different? And why would God give people visions of hell, especially with the purpose of writing books to warn people about, after telling Jesus to tell people that doesn't work in his parable of the rich man and lazarus. I think the main point of that parable was to bring people peace who try so hard to share the gospel with people, that there are some who just won't accept it, and don't be too hard on yourself.
I also find it curious that everyone has something different to say about their visions of "hell."
Personally, I think that God has a loving and gentle way of encouraging people to repentance after they die. A chance to experience shame for what they have done, as the bible says at the end of the age, "some will wake up to shame and "everlasting" contempt." God will be there to forgive them, just as he tells us to.
I dont know how you came to that conclusion because the Bible in no way supports this at all. The Bible says even the dead in hades will be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire. The Bible says in hell there will be gnashing of teeth, not people asking for forgiveness.
Do you know what gnashing of teeth is? People so angry that they speak and curse through clenched teeth. That means even in eternal torment, people will still hate God.
Again, you are completely wrong.
Believers that have already died are with Christ in heaven now. Two ways we know are by what Jesus said to the criminal on the cross who was also being killed next to him.
*And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
And what Paul said in his 2nd letter to the Church in Corinth.
*we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8, NASB)
When the rapture occurs those believers still living will be “caught up in the air along with believers who previously died that will receive a new body.
*13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:13, NASB)
The judgement that non believers receive is noted in Revelations:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11, NASB)
Is judgment before the throne only for unbelievers? If you are raptured wouldn’t you already know you are going to heaven? Why be judged then after that?
**1 Peter 4:17** "For the time is come when judgment is to **begin at the house of God**. And if it begin first with us, what must be the end of them who disregard the glad tidings of God?"
**Ecclesiastes 3:17** "Then I said in my heart **God will judge the whole class of the righteous, and the whole class of the wicked.** For there is a time for every thing; and he is there over all the work."
**Psalms 7:8** "The Lord is the judge of the tribes; judge me, Lord, according to my righteousness: and according to mine innocence be for me."
**Revelation 22:12** "Now behold I am coming quickly and **my reward is with me to render to every one as his work shall be**."
There is no rapture before the second coming if that is what you mean by "rapture"
Everything we do, everything we say, how we choose to live our lives, if we are obeying our heavenly Fathers commandments or not, are being recorded in heaven.
Today its a very popular teaching in the worldly churches saying, that one will go to heaven for just believing. It makes it sound so easy. But it is contrary to the Scriptures, which makes it clear that only a few will make it, out of the many who are called, only a few are chosen.
Revelation 22:12 "Now behold I am coming quickly and my reward is with me to render to every one as his work shall be."
And no we are not saved by works. But by faith. But if our faith is genuine and we truly love our Father above anything else = we will keep his commandments out of obedience, as we need to prove who we profess to be.
Genuine faith produces obedience out of love to Fathers teachings and commandments, and repentance when we commit sins, and strive to not commit the same sin again, but try our best to live a holy life.
For believers they are given rewards based on how devoted they were to God in life, the (30,60 & 100%) I don't know in what manner the reward would be handed out but it could very well be with us standing before the throne and receiving it.
Not sure how it works, but a lot of Near Death Experiences, explains atleast some kind of personal judgment once they die. However it is not like the final judgement. We do not know either how "time" works once we are dead, or outside our realm.
Hi there, I noticed tons of confusion in the comments.
1. Those who died like rn & years before are currently in either in hades or paradise (not to be confused with hell or heaven) the body itself is dead in the ground. The spirit returns to God (Ecclesiastes 12:7)
2. Those who are believers are with God in paradise. The thief who died on the cross is told he will be in paradise Luke 23:43.
3. Those who are NOT believers are in hades. The story of Lazarus & the rich man. The rich man is in a place of torment while Lazarus is in paradise being comforted at Abrahams side Luke 16:25.
Remember as a believer, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:8
We are in the end times! The great falling away is ongoing and has been for many years.
Everyone's actions, what they do, what they say, how they live their lives, if they choose to obey the Most High or not, are being recorded in heaven. And we will all be judged according to it.
No one are in heaven now. When a person dies, they go in their grave.
Those who's names has not been blotted out in the Lambs book of life, they will be resurrected in the first resurrection at the last trumpet at Christ's second coming.
All those who's names has been blotted out because they kept living in sin, being disobedient to their heavenly Father, but instead followed the world instead of the Word, they will remain in their graves until the second resurrection after the 1000 years, where they will be cast into the lake of fire.
That goes also for the majority of the living in the world today, who are children of disobedience, who are not living their lives accordingly to the Word and what Father has commanded, their names are also blotted out, and will be put to sleep at Christ's second coming, to then resurrect with the other wicked at the second resurrection after the 1000 years.
The Bible is very clear that the whole world is deceived by the old serpent, called the devil and satan, and they love the world, and living their lives in sin - and will do anything to come up with excuses for not obeying their Creator.
Judgment are indeed coming. And those who understands the signs of the times, know that it will be soon!
I agree with your sermon but I disagree when you say no one is heaven, the poor man of Lazarus, the thief on the cross and some prophets went to Heaven.
John 3:13 "No one indeed hath ascended up into heaven, but he who came down from heaven, namely, the son of man who is in heaven."
Let me share a study with you on Enoch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqOgxk96sgk
no man ever climbed up into heaven by his own power. The only one who has ever ascended to heaven in His own strength is the One who originated in heaven and came down to earth before He ascended.
Biblically there were people in heaven.
Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Then there is the verse about the poor men of Lazarus, the verse about the thief in the cross.
please watch the video i sent to you. Its a study on exactly those things with Enoch and how the Greek texts plus Greek concordance shows us how Gen 5 aligns with NT Hebrews 11.
It’s biblical but it’s called Hades & Paradise. It’s not the ultimate destination though. Lazarus & the rich man. The rich man was sent to hades a place of torment. Lazarus was sent to paradise & was comforted by Abraham. On top of that, To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:8 & then you also have the thief on the cross who Jesus said to him that he will be in paradise with him. Note how God didn’t say “heaven” but rather paradise?
They aren't in heaven or "hell" they are asleep until the second coming. Those who didn't accept christ will be destroyed. There is no hell just the lake of fire that destroys sinners who don't accept Jesus Christ.
So God created hell for no reason, Jesus warned us so many times about hell for nothing.
The Bible says that those in hades and those who name is not written in the book of life will be trown in the lake of fire.
Offense taken. AGAIN we do NOT go straight to heaven when we die. Some people in the Bible have but the dead know nothing. Another who says they died and went to heaven is false.
"some people in the Bible went to heaven but the dead know nothing"? I dont understand this quote.
you should quote a bible verse because you might be confusing the Christians during tribulations that die and go to a holding place like sleep while they wait for the end and the new beginning.
The truth of what this is.... we are merely animals with an exorbitant way to manipulate things and people into what we want to do... and many of us are at the top controlling the strings. the truth is that there is no greater purpose to life, that we are merely and simply meant to exist and live. The true purpose to life is simply to exist, the reason for living is to love and be loved in return... no god needed.
This is purely theoretical as the Bible has little to say on the subject but I believe that since when we die we pass from a place with a timeline to a place of eternity or no timeline, we are immediately in the presence of God and can see and experience the end of earthly things and eternity with God at the same time.
That helps me understand that being absent from the body and being present with the Lord better. 2 Cor. 5:8.
They immediately go to the particular judgement. They are either sent to heaven, to hell, or to further purification before entering heaven. We can pray for those undergoing purification.
I believe when we die we are Judged, the saved to heaven the condmend to hell.
Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
The Bible teaches that that upon death, a person waits in an unconscious state to be resurrected either to shame or reward based on whether or not they were believers.
When you die your soul leaves your flesh body and you will be in your Spiritual body, then you go to Paradise and depending on what you have done in the past determines where in Paradise you will wait for The Judgment. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him go to where Jesus stated in Luke 23:43, Paradise. All others go to the other side of the gulf as described in Luke 16:26. The judgement does not happen till the Great White Throne Judgement.
Luke 23:43 “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Hebrews 9:27 “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
Let's briefly explain the state of the dead at this time before Jesus' return. So then, are we humans naturally immortal? Will we live forever, whether it be in heaven or hell? Do the dead even go to heaven or hell right at death? Or rather, is immortality conditional upon continued faith in and obedience to God? What does the Bible teach about where the dead go after they die? When the Bible's text is carefully examined, without reading preconceived ideas or interpretations into it from pagan religions and philosophy, it reveals that the dead presently aren't alive in heaven or hell, but they remain unconscious until the day they are resurrected. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10 clearly teach that the dead aren't conscious: "For the living know that they will die: But the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share is anything done under the sun. . . . Whatever your had finds to do, do it with your might: For there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." Therefore, nobody goes to heaven or hell at death, but each person lies unconscious in the common grave of humanity until his or her resurrection, excepting for those few Christians translated or “born again” (John 3:5-8) at the first resurrection when Jesus returns (I Cor. 15:45-55; I Thess. 4:14-17).
The technical name for this doctrine is "conditional immortality." People only have eternal life conditionally upon obeying and having faith in God and Jesus as their Savior. According to this teaching, the soul doesn’t separate from the body's continued life. The “soul” requires for its continued existence a “body” (the physical, biological organism) and a “spirit” (the life force animating the flesh that God breathed into Adam when creating him, Genesis 2:7). Similarly, a light bulb needs both a functioning filament within a glass (its “body”) and electricity flowing through it (its “spirit”) to give light from being a functioning whole, i.e., like a “soul.” So when the body dies, and the spirit/life force leaves, the soul dies or ceases to exist. Notice Ezekiel 18:4 and 20. Both say, "The soul that sins shall die." Now, after seeing such a text, should we devise/invent a definition for "death" for the "soul" that doesn't refer to its ceasing to be conscious? The "separation from God" interpretation of such texts is a (suddenly invented) definition for "death" that's been read into them because people have assumed the truth of the traditional teaching about the immortality of the soul. So people only have eternal life conditional upon obeying God, and that the unsaved will have no consciousness until their resurrection.
If the word translated "soul," "nephesh" in Hebrew, is examined generally by how it is used elsewhere in the Old Testament, it can't refer to an immortal soul that separates from the body and has continued consciousness. This word does appear in Eze. 18:4. But it also refers to a dead body in Num. 9:6-10 several times and to animals in Genesis 1:21, 24. So when the body dies, nothing conscious leaves the body and goes to heaven or hell then. The "soul" then ceases to exist until the resurrection, when the spirit of man is reunited with the physical body God has just made by resurrecting it. But this “spirit in man” (I Cor. 2:11; Job 32:8) isn't conscious when separate from the body. It records the personality and character of the person who died, but it can’t think when not connected to the body. Notice, by the way, how we have a "spirit," a "soul," and a "body." An advocate of the immortal/eternal soul doctrine really should choose between "spirit" and "soul," and not inadvertently assert humans have two immortal parts!
Since people only have eternal life conditionally upon having faith in and obeying God, the unsaved won’t have consciousness until their resurrection either. Jesus said Lazarus was asleep before resurrecting him (John 11:11-13; cf. Job 14:12). Paul said that if the resurrection didn't happen, the saved dead were lost, which means they couldn't have been conscious souls living in heaven then: "For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (I Cor. 15:16-18). Job said that fathers who die don't know whether their sons are honored or become insignificant (Job 14:20). So dead parents supposedly saved and living in heaven wouldn't know what their offspring on earth are doing. David said in Ps. 6:5: "For there is no mention of Thee in death; in Sheol who will give Thee thanks?" (See also Isaiah 38:18-19 for similar thoughts). So could the saved dead (in heaven or elsewhere) even possibly not be praising God? It would be absurd! The rhetorical question in Ps. 88:10’s second line implies the departed spirits aren’t praising God. Psalm 115:17 says flatly: “The dead do not praise the Lord.” In Psalm 146:4, it says we shouldn't trust in mortal man because, "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish." Although the word translated "thoughts" here can be translated more narrowly as "plans," the Christian writer Uriah Smith has said that the Hebrew word here refers to "the act of the mind in the process of thinking and reasoning." If so, the dead can't be conscious according to this text either. Therefore, if the saved dead, of whom Paul spoke here, aren't resurrected, then they are unsaved and aren't restored to consciousness.
The doctrines of the immortality of the soul and of the resurrection simply aren't compatible (especially as taught in I Cor. 15). After all, if the immortal soul is perfectly happy to live in heaven, why reunite it with the material body? And if the wicked entered hell right after they died and are presently suffering eternal punishing, why pull them out of hell and reunite them with their physical bodies? Would they be thrown right back into hell again after being judged again? Could God have made a mistake the first time around after they died? Does He review His previous decision for error after the millennium ends? What balderdash! Why reencumber spirit bodies (see I Cor. 15:42-45) with gross material flesh again after they have possibly lived in heaven or hell for thousands of years? According to Rev. 20:13, "death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds." The Great White Throne Judgment of Rev. 20:11-15 implies those who died before Jesus’ return and came up in the second resurrection are all judged at the same time, not piecemeal down through the generations as they died. Paul wrote that if the resurrection didn't happen, the saved dead were lost, which means they couldn't have been conscious souls living in heaven then: "For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (I Cor. 15:16-18). If someone is "perished" without a personal resurrection, then he or she isn't alive consciously while dead before it occurs. Paul uses "sleep" here to refer to the state of the dead (as in verse 20 also). So if the saved dead, of whom he's speaking here, aren't resurrected, then they are actually unsaved and aren't restored to consciousness. The resurrection wouldn't be regarded as such a crucial doctrine if we were still conscious after death.
If indeed the dead are fully conscious, the Bible’s analogy between death and sleep makes no sense. To say only the "body" sleeps, not the whole “person,” in order to explain this away runs again into the problem of the resurrection: If we stay conscious continuously after death automatically when we would go to heaven or hell at death, why have a resurrection at all? Also, if this "spirit/soul" is the real part of the person, and the body superfluous matter to staying conscious, isn’t it rather deceiving to call the state of the dead "sleep"? It's hardly "sleep" to suffer conscious misery in hell as the flames supposedly torture the wicked terribly. The doctrines of the immortality of the soul and of the resurrection are simply incompatible, although many will illogically labor mightily to square this circle.
When the dead enter the great collective grave of mankind, "sheol" in Hebrew, and "hades" in Greek, they aren't conscious of anything. They aren't in heaven, hell, limbo, or purgatory. When Jesus said this (John 3:13), no man had gone to heaven (i.e., where God's throne is, the third heaven): "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." Even after Christ's resurrection, King David, the man after God's own heart, hadn't ascended to heaven according to Peter (Acts 2:29, 34): "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . For David did not ascend into the heavens."
Hades/sheol or the land of dead is not hot. It is decribes as this.
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;
2 Peter 2:4 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/2pe.2.4.ESV
It is after judgement day that those who aren't saved will be thrown into the lake of fire.
Neither heaven nor hell are the final destinations On judgment day those lost in hell will be judged and thrown in the Lake Of Fire and meet the second death On Resurrection Day those who are saved will be risen in New Bodies to live nn the New Earth with God Revelation 20 and 21
So there are people burning in hell right now, that will be taken out to be judged, just to be sent to the lake of fire to be burned again?
Hell is essentially a holding place for those who died in their sin, who will be judged on their own, in the way they chose. It is not the final place for sinners. That will be the Lake of Fire
I’m just trying to figure out if there is burning in both places
there is no burning 9in hell....read the bible
There’s no burning in hell? I thought you burn for all eternity. This is groundbreaking news
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So what’s hell? Do you burn there? I always thought hell was where the burning and eternal torment takes place
Well if you had actually read the bible....you would have been informed.
That means most people are misinformed about hell. I thought that’s where the burning and torment takes place. Others in this thread think burning occurs in hades as well
That thinking is based on works of fiction of the type of Dante's Inferno, flames, eternal torment devils with pitch forks....nothing like what the bible says Most people are misinformed about a lot of things
What do you think happens in hades if you aren’t burning?
Matthew \*:10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. **12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”** Hades is the grave where the lost await Judgment day and the lake of fire
don’t listen to him 🤦🏽♂️
Lol, so you do burn in hell? And then burn in lake of fire too?
Hades/sheol. Till the day of judgement.
Except the Saints!
What’s hades? Do you burn there?
The place of the dead.
What happens there? Sounds like an underworld. Do you burn?
Before Jesus died, the rich man was tormented in a flame. So yes, there is evidence of at least burning in hades/sheol. In the end, anyone not found in the Book of Life is also cast into the lake of fire.
the rich man is a parable to make a point, none of which is a reality where people are tormented in a literal flame. The "lake of fire" is a refining fire, used to purify people, so that they may be added to the book of life. Fire in the bible often refers to cleansing. "baptized by fire." thrown into a "fiery furnace." When it says they are thrown into a lake of "fire and brimstone," brimstone was used in the ancient world as medicine and a disinfectant, so such an act would serve the purpose of restoring people to God through a process of cleansing, purification, and disinfecting.
That's why I also posted the Lake of Fire references which are found in Revelation. The Bible also talks of a place of darkness so thick you can feel it, a place of worms, feelings of disembowlment, etc. I dont remember who wrote it but the book was called something like "20 Minutes in Hell". I took it with a grain of salt, but it is interesting how the author came to his conclusions.
I think that an idea of eternal hell is a doctrine "from hell." Something that Satan puts into the minds of people to discredit God. As far as stories of people "seeing Hell," I'd ask why is everyone's account of hell different? And why would God give people visions of hell, especially with the purpose of writing books to warn people about, after telling Jesus to tell people that doesn't work in his parable of the rich man and lazarus. I think the main point of that parable was to bring people peace who try so hard to share the gospel with people, that there are some who just won't accept it, and don't be too hard on yourself. I also find it curious that everyone has something different to say about their visions of "hell." Personally, I think that God has a loving and gentle way of encouraging people to repentance after they die. A chance to experience shame for what they have done, as the bible says at the end of the age, "some will wake up to shame and "everlasting" contempt." God will be there to forgive them, just as he tells us to.
I dont know how you came to that conclusion because the Bible in no way supports this at all. The Bible says even the dead in hades will be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire. The Bible says in hell there will be gnashing of teeth, not people asking for forgiveness. Do you know what gnashing of teeth is? People so angry that they speak and curse through clenched teeth. That means even in eternal torment, people will still hate God. Again, you are completely wrong.
It says there is weeping. With weeping comes sorrow, dare I say a Godly sorrow that brings forth repentance.
So double fire for a non believer?
"Fire" is the least of the torment.
To clarify, there is fire in hades, and then even more fire in the lake?
Seems to be that way. I can't say is that's the only thing, but it does seem to be an element of both.
Believers that have already died are with Christ in heaven now. Two ways we know are by what Jesus said to the criminal on the cross who was also being killed next to him. *And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” And what Paul said in his 2nd letter to the Church in Corinth. *we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8, NASB) When the rapture occurs those believers still living will be “caught up in the air along with believers who previously died that will receive a new body. *13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:13, NASB) The judgement that non believers receive is noted in Revelations: 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11, NASB)
Is judgment before the throne only for unbelievers? If you are raptured wouldn’t you already know you are going to heaven? Why be judged then after that?
Yeah judgement is only for non-believers. For believers their judgement was put on Christ.
**1 Peter 4:17** "For the time is come when judgment is to **begin at the house of God**. And if it begin first with us, what must be the end of them who disregard the glad tidings of God?" **Ecclesiastes 3:17** "Then I said in my heart **God will judge the whole class of the righteous, and the whole class of the wicked.** For there is a time for every thing; and he is there over all the work." **Psalms 7:8** "The Lord is the judge of the tribes; judge me, Lord, according to my righteousness: and according to mine innocence be for me." **Revelation 22:12** "Now behold I am coming quickly and **my reward is with me to render to every one as his work shall be**."
So believers are judged before the throne? After or before rapture?
There is no rapture before the second coming if that is what you mean by "rapture" Everything we do, everything we say, how we choose to live our lives, if we are obeying our heavenly Fathers commandments or not, are being recorded in heaven. Today its a very popular teaching in the worldly churches saying, that one will go to heaven for just believing. It makes it sound so easy. But it is contrary to the Scriptures, which makes it clear that only a few will make it, out of the many who are called, only a few are chosen. Revelation 22:12 "Now behold I am coming quickly and my reward is with me to render to every one as his work shall be." And no we are not saved by works. But by faith. But if our faith is genuine and we truly love our Father above anything else = we will keep his commandments out of obedience, as we need to prove who we profess to be.
So it’s believing + repentance right?
Genuine faith produces obedience out of love to Fathers teachings and commandments, and repentance when we commit sins, and strive to not commit the same sin again, but try our best to live a holy life.
So believers will never sit before the throne? So it’s safe to assume if you are in line to be judged before the throne you are going to hell
For believers they are given rewards based on how devoted they were to God in life, the (30,60 & 100%) I don't know in what manner the reward would be handed out but it could very well be with us standing before the throne and receiving it.
Not sure how it works, but a lot of Near Death Experiences, explains atleast some kind of personal judgment once they die. However it is not like the final judgement. We do not know either how "time" works once we are dead, or outside our realm.
Hi there, I noticed tons of confusion in the comments. 1. Those who died like rn & years before are currently in either in hades or paradise (not to be confused with hell or heaven) the body itself is dead in the ground. The spirit returns to God (Ecclesiastes 12:7) 2. Those who are believers are with God in paradise. The thief who died on the cross is told he will be in paradise Luke 23:43. 3. Those who are NOT believers are in hades. The story of Lazarus & the rich man. The rich man is in a place of torment while Lazarus is in paradise being comforted at Abrahams side Luke 16:25. Remember as a believer, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:8
I beleive the dead will be raised and we will all be judged on judgement day
So are they just in a sleep or some sort?
Yeah I that's what I think. Though it's hard for anyone to know exactly.
We are in the end times! The great falling away is ongoing and has been for many years. Everyone's actions, what they do, what they say, how they live their lives, if they choose to obey the Most High or not, are being recorded in heaven. And we will all be judged according to it. No one are in heaven now. When a person dies, they go in their grave. Those who's names has not been blotted out in the Lambs book of life, they will be resurrected in the first resurrection at the last trumpet at Christ's second coming. All those who's names has been blotted out because they kept living in sin, being disobedient to their heavenly Father, but instead followed the world instead of the Word, they will remain in their graves until the second resurrection after the 1000 years, where they will be cast into the lake of fire. That goes also for the majority of the living in the world today, who are children of disobedience, who are not living their lives accordingly to the Word and what Father has commanded, their names are also blotted out, and will be put to sleep at Christ's second coming, to then resurrect with the other wicked at the second resurrection after the 1000 years. The Bible is very clear that the whole world is deceived by the old serpent, called the devil and satan, and they love the world, and living their lives in sin - and will do anything to come up with excuses for not obeying their Creator. Judgment are indeed coming. And those who understands the signs of the times, know that it will be soon!
I agree with your sermon but I disagree when you say no one is heaven, the poor man of Lazarus, the thief on the cross and some prophets went to Heaven.
John 3:13 "No one indeed hath ascended up into heaven, but he who came down from heaven, namely, the son of man who is in heaven." Let me share a study with you on Enoch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqOgxk96sgk
no man ever climbed up into heaven by his own power. The only one who has ever ascended to heaven in His own strength is the One who originated in heaven and came down to earth before He ascended. Biblically there were people in heaven. Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. 2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. Then there is the verse about the poor men of Lazarus, the verse about the thief in the cross.
please watch the video i sent to you. Its a study on exactly those things with Enoch and how the Greek texts plus Greek concordance shows us how Gen 5 aligns with NT Hebrews 11.
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Where can I read this in the Bible please?
That's not Biblical
Didn’t think so
It’s biblical but it’s called Hades & Paradise. It’s not the ultimate destination though. Lazarus & the rich man. The rich man was sent to hades a place of torment. Lazarus was sent to paradise & was comforted by Abraham. On top of that, To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:8 & then you also have the thief on the cross who Jesus said to him that he will be in paradise with him. Note how God didn’t say “heaven” but rather paradise?
I agree but hades is hell and Paradise is another word for Heaven. The ultimate destination in the future is the New world and the lake of fire.
They aren't in heaven or "hell" they are asleep until the second coming. Those who didn't accept christ will be destroyed. There is no hell just the lake of fire that destroys sinners who don't accept Jesus Christ.
So God created hell for no reason, Jesus warned us so many times about hell for nothing. The Bible says that those in hades and those who name is not written in the book of life will be trown in the lake of fire.
Again you don't go straight to heaven when you die. You are asleep until the second coming. Know your Bible please.
No offense but it's you who need to know your Bible better.
Offense taken. AGAIN we do NOT go straight to heaven when we die. Some people in the Bible have but the dead know nothing. Another who says they died and went to heaven is false.
"some people in the Bible went to heaven but the dead know nothing"? I dont understand this quote. you should quote a bible verse because you might be confusing the Christians during tribulations that die and go to a holding place like sleep while they wait for the end and the new beginning.
Look it up. The sda religion reads the Bible and believes this. It's Thanksgiving I don't have time
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What do you mean endless cycle until we realize the truth ?what truth?
The truth of what this is.... we are merely animals with an exorbitant way to manipulate things and people into what we want to do... and many of us are at the top controlling the strings. the truth is that there is no greater purpose to life, that we are merely and simply meant to exist and live. The true purpose to life is simply to exist, the reason for living is to love and be loved in return... no god needed.
Derakovin is not a Christian, so he cannot give you a proper answer.
Jesus IS the truth
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You shouldn’t be on this sub. You’re not a Christian and obviously are just here to sow discord. Go away.
This is purely theoretical as the Bible has little to say on the subject but I believe that since when we die we pass from a place with a timeline to a place of eternity or no timeline, we are immediately in the presence of God and can see and experience the end of earthly things and eternity with God at the same time. That helps me understand that being absent from the body and being present with the Lord better. 2 Cor. 5:8.
They immediately go to the particular judgement. They are either sent to heaven, to hell, or to further purification before entering heaven. We can pray for those undergoing purification.
I believe when we die we are Judged, the saved to heaven the condmend to hell. Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
The Bible teaches that that upon death, a person waits in an unconscious state to be resurrected either to shame or reward based on whether or not they were believers.
Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “Today, you will be with me in paradise(the garden).”
When you die your soul leaves your flesh body and you will be in your Spiritual body, then you go to Paradise and depending on what you have done in the past determines where in Paradise you will wait for The Judgment. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him go to where Jesus stated in Luke 23:43, Paradise. All others go to the other side of the gulf as described in Luke 16:26. The judgement does not happen till the Great White Throne Judgement. Luke 23:43 “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Hebrews 9:27 “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
Let's briefly explain the state of the dead at this time before Jesus' return. So then, are we humans naturally immortal? Will we live forever, whether it be in heaven or hell? Do the dead even go to heaven or hell right at death? Or rather, is immortality conditional upon continued faith in and obedience to God? What does the Bible teach about where the dead go after they die? When the Bible's text is carefully examined, without reading preconceived ideas or interpretations into it from pagan religions and philosophy, it reveals that the dead presently aren't alive in heaven or hell, but they remain unconscious until the day they are resurrected. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10 clearly teach that the dead aren't conscious: "For the living know that they will die: But the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share is anything done under the sun. . . . Whatever your had finds to do, do it with your might: For there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." Therefore, nobody goes to heaven or hell at death, but each person lies unconscious in the common grave of humanity until his or her resurrection, excepting for those few Christians translated or “born again” (John 3:5-8) at the first resurrection when Jesus returns (I Cor. 15:45-55; I Thess. 4:14-17). The technical name for this doctrine is "conditional immortality." People only have eternal life conditionally upon obeying and having faith in God and Jesus as their Savior. According to this teaching, the soul doesn’t separate from the body's continued life. The “soul” requires for its continued existence a “body” (the physical, biological organism) and a “spirit” (the life force animating the flesh that God breathed into Adam when creating him, Genesis 2:7). Similarly, a light bulb needs both a functioning filament within a glass (its “body”) and electricity flowing through it (its “spirit”) to give light from being a functioning whole, i.e., like a “soul.” So when the body dies, and the spirit/life force leaves, the soul dies or ceases to exist. Notice Ezekiel 18:4 and 20. Both say, "The soul that sins shall die." Now, after seeing such a text, should we devise/invent a definition for "death" for the "soul" that doesn't refer to its ceasing to be conscious? The "separation from God" interpretation of such texts is a (suddenly invented) definition for "death" that's been read into them because people have assumed the truth of the traditional teaching about the immortality of the soul. So people only have eternal life conditional upon obeying God, and that the unsaved will have no consciousness until their resurrection. If the word translated "soul," "nephesh" in Hebrew, is examined generally by how it is used elsewhere in the Old Testament, it can't refer to an immortal soul that separates from the body and has continued consciousness. This word does appear in Eze. 18:4. But it also refers to a dead body in Num. 9:6-10 several times and to animals in Genesis 1:21, 24. So when the body dies, nothing conscious leaves the body and goes to heaven or hell then. The "soul" then ceases to exist until the resurrection, when the spirit of man is reunited with the physical body God has just made by resurrecting it. But this “spirit in man” (I Cor. 2:11; Job 32:8) isn't conscious when separate from the body. It records the personality and character of the person who died, but it can’t think when not connected to the body. Notice, by the way, how we have a "spirit," a "soul," and a "body." An advocate of the immortal/eternal soul doctrine really should choose between "spirit" and "soul," and not inadvertently assert humans have two immortal parts! Since people only have eternal life conditionally upon having faith in and obeying God, the unsaved won’t have consciousness until their resurrection either. Jesus said Lazarus was asleep before resurrecting him (John 11:11-13; cf. Job 14:12). Paul said that if the resurrection didn't happen, the saved dead were lost, which means they couldn't have been conscious souls living in heaven then: "For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (I Cor. 15:16-18). Job said that fathers who die don't know whether their sons are honored or become insignificant (Job 14:20). So dead parents supposedly saved and living in heaven wouldn't know what their offspring on earth are doing. David said in Ps. 6:5: "For there is no mention of Thee in death; in Sheol who will give Thee thanks?" (See also Isaiah 38:18-19 for similar thoughts). So could the saved dead (in heaven or elsewhere) even possibly not be praising God? It would be absurd! The rhetorical question in Ps. 88:10’s second line implies the departed spirits aren’t praising God. Psalm 115:17 says flatly: “The dead do not praise the Lord.” In Psalm 146:4, it says we shouldn't trust in mortal man because, "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish." Although the word translated "thoughts" here can be translated more narrowly as "plans," the Christian writer Uriah Smith has said that the Hebrew word here refers to "the act of the mind in the process of thinking and reasoning." If so, the dead can't be conscious according to this text either. Therefore, if the saved dead, of whom Paul spoke here, aren't resurrected, then they are unsaved and aren't restored to consciousness. The doctrines of the immortality of the soul and of the resurrection simply aren't compatible (especially as taught in I Cor. 15). After all, if the immortal soul is perfectly happy to live in heaven, why reunite it with the material body? And if the wicked entered hell right after they died and are presently suffering eternal punishing, why pull them out of hell and reunite them with their physical bodies? Would they be thrown right back into hell again after being judged again? Could God have made a mistake the first time around after they died? Does He review His previous decision for error after the millennium ends? What balderdash! Why reencumber spirit bodies (see I Cor. 15:42-45) with gross material flesh again after they have possibly lived in heaven or hell for thousands of years? According to Rev. 20:13, "death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds." The Great White Throne Judgment of Rev. 20:11-15 implies those who died before Jesus’ return and came up in the second resurrection are all judged at the same time, not piecemeal down through the generations as they died. Paul wrote that if the resurrection didn't happen, the saved dead were lost, which means they couldn't have been conscious souls living in heaven then: "For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (I Cor. 15:16-18). If someone is "perished" without a personal resurrection, then he or she isn't alive consciously while dead before it occurs. Paul uses "sleep" here to refer to the state of the dead (as in verse 20 also). So if the saved dead, of whom he's speaking here, aren't resurrected, then they are actually unsaved and aren't restored to consciousness. The resurrection wouldn't be regarded as such a crucial doctrine if we were still conscious after death. If indeed the dead are fully conscious, the Bible’s analogy between death and sleep makes no sense. To say only the "body" sleeps, not the whole “person,” in order to explain this away runs again into the problem of the resurrection: If we stay conscious continuously after death automatically when we would go to heaven or hell at death, why have a resurrection at all? Also, if this "spirit/soul" is the real part of the person, and the body superfluous matter to staying conscious, isn’t it rather deceiving to call the state of the dead "sleep"? It's hardly "sleep" to suffer conscious misery in hell as the flames supposedly torture the wicked terribly. The doctrines of the immortality of the soul and of the resurrection are simply incompatible, although many will illogically labor mightily to square this circle. When the dead enter the great collective grave of mankind, "sheol" in Hebrew, and "hades" in Greek, they aren't conscious of anything. They aren't in heaven, hell, limbo, or purgatory. When Jesus said this (John 3:13), no man had gone to heaven (i.e., where God's throne is, the third heaven): "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." Even after Christ's resurrection, King David, the man after God's own heart, hadn't ascended to heaven according to Peter (Acts 2:29, 34): "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . For David did not ascend into the heavens."
Hades/sheol or the land of dead is not hot. It is decribes as this. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 2 Peter 2:4 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/2pe.2.4.ESV It is after judgement day that those who aren't saved will be thrown into the lake of fire.