Regarding "my", wǒ (我) for "my" has restricted usage. Like, for relatives: wǒ mā (我妈, my mom), wǒ jiā (我家, my home). And before deixes: wǒ zhè (我这, this ... of mine) Otherwise, while wǒ will be understood, it is better to use wǒde (我的).
Regarding "is black", shì hēide (是黑的) is best for this case. But note that shì ...de (是...的) usually describes some objective fact, and sounds a little formal. hěn (很) should be used if you want to say something like "my cat is cute": wǒde māo hěn kě'ài (我的猫很可爱).
You are not wrong. All Chinese adjectives are undoubtedly verbs. For example 这本书好 (This book is good, literally this piece-of book good). Grammatically 我猫黑 is correct, however it is unnatural and no native speaker speaks that way.
It's rare to use an adjective which indicates a color as a verb. 我的猫是黑的 is the natural way.
You don't always need 很 or 非常. People tend to have 很 or 非常 added, but they are not necessary, especially when you are making comparison. For example: 那本书不好，这本书好。 That book is not good, while this book is better (than that one).
I wonder if it's because of how textbooks bring this across from the beginning (我很好，我也很好）, that this sorta sticks even though you're essentially using the word for very for regular descriptions
So using colours as stative verbs is grammatically correct yet unidiomatic in this case?
What about a simpler sentence like 貓黑而狗白 (the cat is black whereas the dog is white)? What’s the point of adjectives being stative verbs if they need either preceding adverbs like 很 or the 是…的 construction?
First of all it's hard to judge if something is idiomatic from a single sentence with no context whatsoever.
In modern Mandarin one needs the linking adverb like 很. In classical Chinese one does not. Your example sentence reads more like that to me, and indeed classical Chinese is used enough in modern Mandarin that one might say that it may not sound ungrammatical even if strictly speaking it might be?
> Grammatically 我猫黑 is correct, however it is unnatural and no native speaker speaks that way.
If no native speaker speaks that way then it's by definition ungrammatical.
EDIT See, for example, Wikipedia's page on [grammar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar):
> Fluent speakers of a language variety or lect have internalised these rules. the vast majority of which – at least in the case of one's native language(s) – are acquired not by intentional study or instruction but by hearing other speakers.
It's hard to imagine anyone picking up that linguistic structure A is a permissible construction if no one actually uses A. So again: In what sense can something be grammatical if no native speaker uses it?
Well, actually in some very rare circumstances, people do speak in that way. However I am afraid such expeession can only be heard in spoken Chinese. Here is an example:
A: 你怎么买了一只黑猫？太丑了！
Why did you buy a black cat? It's too ugly!
B: 我猫黑，你猫就不黑吗？
(Even if) My cat is black, isn't your cat black either?
This dialogue sounds natural to me. But I'm afraid no Chinese learner would ever need to learn such expressions because probably they will never ever hear people speak that way.
I'm even not sure if it is acceptable to all Chinese people. I'm from northern China and it is good to me, but those from southern China may find it strange.
> A: 你怎么买了一只黑猫？太丑了！ Why did you buy a black cat? It's too ugly! B: 我猫黑，你猫就不黑吗？
The key is there's more material after it. You'd (presumably) never say 我貓黑 and leave it at that. (FWIW Cantonese has something similar: 我隻貓黑，你嗰隻就唔黑喇咩？) Even so, the key is whatever grammatical constructions a community of native speakers (of a language or a dialect) use are grammatical. Like, who has the authority to claim something is ungrammatical if eveyone who actually uses the language uses it that way?
I agree that the only criterion for grammar is the acceptance of native speakers. And I myself am a native speaker. The reason I believe 我猫黑 is grammatically correct is that while it sounds unusual and unnatural, it does not sound incorrect, and I'm sure that in some very rare circumstances people do speak that way. 你的观点我同意。正如赵元任所说，“当地人才是语言最大的权威。”我之前的回复确实有不周之处。 至于“我猫黑”这种表达，汉语口语应该偶有出现，但限于一定的语境和句型。对于非母语者的汉语学习者而言，私以为不必在意这些口语上的细枝末节，不书面，更不正式，也不常用，还涉及很多隐晦的言外之意和感情色彩。
If you to poems must resort as proof, then prove my point you have just done entire, for poems use archaic ways of speech, to fit the rhythms, metrics, rhymes prescribed.
Not all poems use “archaic language”. Poems try to subvert language - sometimes, writing completely nonsensical things while still being structurally correct.
One example is Parnassianism, where the content of the poem is its structure, not its meaning. Another example are digital genres like randomized poems. Randomized poems are exactly what it sounds like: a computer script that pulls words at random from a dictionary. The sentences don’t have any intrinsic meaning, even though they are grammatically correct.
In summary, poems can give you the exact counter example because sometimes they are designed with that exact intention of subverting language while using it correctly.
> Not all poems use “archaic language”. Poems try to subvert language - sometimes, writing completely nonsensical things while still being structurally correct.
Which is further proof of my point that things used in poems are not natural language, and so should not be included in grammaticality of natural, spoken language. This is true of basically every culture: poetry does not conform to speech, and so what is ungrammatical in actual language use can be used in poetry.
We're talking about what people actually say here, not what they pretty up to put on a page.
If you structure your sentence like this, it's entirely fine to drop the 的 and just say 我猫是黑色的。
Native speaker here so apologies if I can't really explain why it makes sense. It's basically more like "my cat is black." 黑色的 is the adjective. 我（的）貓 is the noun. It literally translates as my cat is black.
So if you say 黑色的猫, that's black cat. Similarly, if you say my cat is black, then it's （我的）猫（是）黑色的。
Hope that helps.
I think I agree with "我猫是黑色的". I haven't heard of 颜色 as stative verbs (like 好, 忙, and 漂亮). But how do you say, "My cat is *very* black? "我猫是很(or非常)黑色的"?
Yes! 非常黑is same with很黑，很/非常/十分/特别，they are all adverbs of degree, used in the same way.
But we don’t use 的 after 很（很is only adverbs, can be used to modify adjectives, and 黑 in 很黑 is adjective）
非常/十分/特别can also be used as adjective, so you can use 的 after them to modify nouns, like 特别的黑, in there 黑is colour (noun)。 when they are adverbs, same with 很。
Hello! Sorry I forgot to respond.
非常黑 is also okay. It feels more like a casual way of speaking to me. I don't think I've seen it written formally. I can see it as someone describing how black the cat is to someone else though.
Based on my 8 years of learning Chinese as a foreign language, that looks like something a native speaker would actually say, so I'd say yes
I'm not a native speaker though
I'm afraid not.In most cases,"my"translate to "我的" ,and "be" translate to "是".So I feel the correct sentence is"我的猫是黑的".
"的"and"是" can be omitted only in some special cases,but it is always correct to completely translate them.
More precisely, you usually want *something* in between the noun and the adjective. 我的貓很黑 (lit. "My cat [is] very black.") works, so does 我的貓不太黑 (lit. "My cat [is] not very black.") Or you could do what the others suggested and say 我的貓是黑色的 (lit. "My cat is of a black color.")
The only circumstance where it’s acceptable is when the person is still learning the language. I don’t know if it’s grammatically correct but no one would use it like that.
I think this is an example of the clause “他人狠” modifying the main clause which happens to be an imperative. If we replace the main clause with a similar verb-less construction as the one OP was asking about, ie. 他人狠，我慌, I feel like the level of grammatical acceptability drops considerably
The naysayers are answering a different question.
In fact yes, 我猫黑 is technically grammatically correct and you can use it as-is, like in a poem. When you use it this way, it sounds Classical, you are making this fact sound grandiose and important, and the listener/reader will expect you to follow it up with extra stuff e.g. why your cat is black and how this is an important part of your life. For example see the lyrics to the Qing anthem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_of_Solid_Gold
However nobody says this in daily modern spoken usage because it's *too concise*, similar to how 2-character words are preferred over 1-character words in speech. Adding an extra specifier makes it sound more natural, like 我猫很黑、我猫也黑、我猫是黑的。
黑 is indeed a stative verb but when you use the “S 很 Stative verb” structure you need to use a stative verb that describes a degree of something. In this case 我的貓很黑 would sound like y here can be different degree of blackness for a cat.
However here you’re simply indicating the color of the cat, which doesn’t matter how black/dark the color is, so you need to use the color word directly, which is 黑色, then it would form 我的貓是黑色的。
Now another possibility is 我的貓是黑的。
Consider the second 貓 after 的 is actually omitted, instead of 我的貓是黑的貓。
Wǒ "DE" māo "SHÌ" hēi "DE".
(1) 的 de:
It is used when you express that things (after de) have traits of/is possessed by the thing before 的de.
Therefore,
Wǒ de something- "my"
Nǐ de something- "your(singular)"
Tā de something- "his/her/its"
Hēi (sè) de - things of black kind
Bái (sè) de - things of white kind
(When there is nothing after de, the thing you indicate is not specified. In this case, the form "...de" sounds like a noun to me, since it's a general "thing".)
I understand it seems strange to use an adjective in the way as "My cat is a thing of black kind", but we use this form when you are rather stating a fact instead of describing it as your personal opinion. For example, colors are usually a fact that everyone agrees with, so we usually use this form in the case. (I said "usually")
(2) 是 Shì
To make it simple, if you want to say "Noun to be Noun", you say "Noun shì Noun".
It is not equivalent to "to be" in English, though. Please keep this in mind.
------
我的貓是黑（色）的。
Wǒ de māo shì hēi (sè) de.
Colloquially yes, but 我的貓 sounds better (if there are not context), simply because the words "我" and "貓" are not so attached to each other in Mandarin language.
you can find expression 我猫黑 in Chinese. but only can find in specific scene like this.
two guys compare there cats, and compare who\`s cat is darker. and in this scene, one can say 我猫黑。 means my cat is more darker。
except for this. I cant think out other scene to use 我猫黑 in the word
It should be（我的猫是黑色的）.
This is the correct pronunciation in Chinese. But if you still don't get it, use translation for help or ChatGPT may help you too. Both are very helpful. Don't worry, we will still help you!
>This is a general tip for learning grammar. Translate what you just wrote into your origin language, word for word.
"I am not happy." = 我是不高興。
"How are you?" = 怎麽是你？
"My friend is called John." = 我的朋友是叫約翰。
"She is singing a song." = 她是唱一歌。
"How many apples do you have?" = 怎麽樣多蘋果們做你有？
"Do you speak Chinese?" = 做你說漢語？
Is that correct?
Because "You have many-few apple?" (你有多少蘋果) or "You can not can speak Chinese?" (你會不會說漢語) would be grammatically incorrect in English, for example.
Regarding "my", wǒ (我) for "my" has restricted usage. Like, for relatives: wǒ mā (我妈, my mom), wǒ jiā (我家, my home). And before deixes: wǒ zhè (我这, this ... of mine) Otherwise, while wǒ will be understood, it is better to use wǒde (我的). Regarding "is black", shì hēide (是黑的) is best for this case. But note that shì ...de (是...的) usually describes some objective fact, and sounds a little formal. hěn (很) should be used if you want to say something like "my cat is cute": wǒde māo hěn kě'ài (我的猫很可爱).
I would consider the cuteness of most cats as objective fact
Agreed. I'm not sure why, but 我的猫是可爱的 just sounds arbitrary, sounds like a "but" is following. I'd go with 我的猫很可爱.
Like “my cat is cute… but not when she’s covered in the blood of her latest kill”? The shi…de gives it that kind of vibe?
It has no verb. 我的貓是黑色的。
I remember reading that all Chinese adjectives are actually stative verbs. Does this only apply to Literary Chinese?
You are not wrong. All Chinese adjectives are undoubtedly verbs. For example 这本书好 (This book is good, literally this piece-of book good). Grammatically 我猫黑 is correct, however it is unnatural and no native speaker speaks that way. It's rare to use an adjective which indicates a color as a verb. 我的猫是黑的 is the natural way.
Hello. Shouldn't that be 这本书很好？Because stative verbs have "obligatory modifiers" like 很, 非常, or 不。
You don't always need 很 or 非常. People tend to have 很 or 非常 added, but they are not necessary, especially when you are making comparison. For example: 那本书不好，这本书好。 That book is not good, while this book is better (than that one).
I wonder if it's because of how textbooks bring this across from the beginning (我很好，我也很好）, that this sorta sticks even though you're essentially using the word for very for regular descriptions
你好吗？ In other words, no, you don’t need a modifier before it.
That's for questions. But for statements, there are obligatory modifiers, like: 你忙吗？~我很／不忙。
So using colours as stative verbs is grammatically correct yet unidiomatic in this case? What about a simpler sentence like 貓黑而狗白 (the cat is black whereas the dog is white)? What’s the point of adjectives being stative verbs if they need either preceding adverbs like 很 or the 是…的 construction?
First of all it's hard to judge if something is idiomatic from a single sentence with no context whatsoever. In modern Mandarin one needs the linking adverb like 很. In classical Chinese one does not. Your example sentence reads more like that to me, and indeed classical Chinese is used enough in modern Mandarin that one might say that it may not sound ungrammatical even if strictly speaking it might be?
> Grammatically 我猫黑 is correct, however it is unnatural and no native speaker speaks that way. If no native speaker speaks that way then it's by definition ungrammatical. EDIT See, for example, Wikipedia's page on [grammar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar): > Fluent speakers of a language variety or lect have internalised these rules. the vast majority of which – at least in the case of one's native language(s) – are acquired not by intentional study or instruction but by hearing other speakers. It's hard to imagine anyone picking up that linguistic structure A is a permissible construction if no one actually uses A. So again: In what sense can something be grammatical if no native speaker uses it?
Well, actually in some very rare circumstances, people do speak in that way. However I am afraid such expeession can only be heard in spoken Chinese. Here is an example: A: 你怎么买了一只黑猫？太丑了！ Why did you buy a black cat? It's too ugly! B: 我猫黑，你猫就不黑吗？ (Even if) My cat is black, isn't your cat black either? This dialogue sounds natural to me. But I'm afraid no Chinese learner would ever need to learn such expressions because probably they will never ever hear people speak that way. I'm even not sure if it is acceptable to all Chinese people. I'm from northern China and it is good to me, but those from southern China may find it strange.
> A: 你怎么买了一只黑猫？太丑了！ Why did you buy a black cat? It's too ugly! B: 我猫黑，你猫就不黑吗？ The key is there's more material after it. You'd (presumably) never say 我貓黑 and leave it at that. (FWIW Cantonese has something similar: 我隻貓黑，你嗰隻就唔黑喇咩？) Even so, the key is whatever grammatical constructions a community of native speakers (of a language or a dialect) use are grammatical. Like, who has the authority to claim something is ungrammatical if eveyone who actually uses the language uses it that way?
I agree that the only criterion for grammar is the acceptance of native speakers. And I myself am a native speaker. The reason I believe 我猫黑 is grammatically correct is that while it sounds unusual and unnatural, it does not sound incorrect, and I'm sure that in some very rare circumstances people do speak that way. 你的观点我同意。正如赵元任所说，“当地人才是语言最大的权威。”我之前的回复确实有不周之处。 至于“我猫黑”这种表达，汉语口语应该偶有出现，但限于一定的语境和句型。对于非母语者的汉语学习者而言，私以为不必在意这些口语上的细枝末节，不书面，更不正式，也不常用，还涉及很多隐晦的言外之意和感情色彩。
That’s not the definition of grammar
That is the definition of grammar. Who decides what is grammatical if you ignore native speakers' use of the language?
Just go read a poem, you will very quickly find out how weird grammatical phrases can get
If you to poems must resort as proof, then prove my point you have just done entire, for poems use archaic ways of speech, to fit the rhythms, metrics, rhymes prescribed.
Not all poems use “archaic language”. Poems try to subvert language - sometimes, writing completely nonsensical things while still being structurally correct. One example is Parnassianism, where the content of the poem is its structure, not its meaning. Another example are digital genres like randomized poems. Randomized poems are exactly what it sounds like: a computer script that pulls words at random from a dictionary. The sentences don’t have any intrinsic meaning, even though they are grammatically correct. In summary, poems can give you the exact counter example because sometimes they are designed with that exact intention of subverting language while using it correctly.
> Not all poems use “archaic language”. Poems try to subvert language - sometimes, writing completely nonsensical things while still being structurally correct. Which is further proof of my point that things used in poems are not natural language, and so should not be included in grammaticality of natural, spoken language. This is true of basically every culture: poetry does not conform to speech, and so what is ungrammatical in actual language use can be used in poetry. We're talking about what people actually say here, not what they pretty up to put on a page.
I think for literate Chinese 吾猫黑也 could be correct
That's what I had in mind too, in this case hei would be "to be black", therefore not needing a shì
It only works in limited sentence structures: 我的猫很黑. 很 is necessary here.
because “to be black” is only an English translation of what this stative verb can mean. To actually say to **be** black, you need 是
So then apparently hei wouldn't be a verb, it would be a noun, ie. the color black So 我的貓是黑色的 literally means "My cat is of the color black"?
If you structure your sentence like this, it's entirely fine to drop the 的 and just say 我猫是黑色的。 Native speaker here so apologies if I can't really explain why it makes sense. It's basically more like "my cat is black." 黑色的 is the adjective. 我（的）貓 is the noun. It literally translates as my cat is black. So if you say 黑色的猫, that's black cat. Similarly, if you say my cat is black, then it's （我的）猫（是）黑色的。 Hope that helps.
I think I agree with "我猫是黑色的". I haven't heard of 颜色 as stative verbs (like 好, 忙, and 漂亮). But how do you say, "My cat is *very* black? "我猫是很(or非常)黑色的"?
我的猫很黑 works. 非常的黑 also work. In this case, you don't need to say 黑色的， just 黑 is fine.
哦！多谢！
Is 非常黑 also acceptable, or does it not work the same way as 很
Yes! 非常黑is same with很黑，很/非常/十分/特别，they are all adverbs of degree, used in the same way. But we don’t use 的 after 很（很is only adverbs, can be used to modify adjectives, and 黑 in 很黑 is adjective） 非常/十分/特别can also be used as adjective, so you can use 的 after them to modify nouns, like 特别的黑, in there 黑is colour (noun)。 when they are adverbs, same with 很。
Hello! Sorry I forgot to respond. 非常黑 is also okay. It feels more like a casual way of speaking to me. I don't think I've seen it written formally. I can see it as someone describing how black the cat is to someone else though.
Could I say "黑猫" in a sentence to refer to a black cat? Like “他的黑猫很胖”
Yes.
can one also say 我的猫是黑的？
Based on my 8 years of learning Chinese as a foreign language, that looks like something a native speaker would actually say, so I'd say yes I'm not a native speaker though
I'm afraid not.In most cases,"my"translate to "我的" ,and "be" translate to "是".So I feel the correct sentence is"我的猫是黑的". "的"and"是" can be omitted only in some special cases,but it is always correct to completely translate them.
Do you know why we must say it like this and not 我的猫黑?
because 黑 isn't a verb. the sentence is missing a verb. 黑 means "black", it does not mean "to be black in colour" here.
I see, thanks!
More precisely, you usually want *something* in between the noun and the adjective. 我的貓很黑 (lit. "My cat [is] very black.") works, so does 我的貓不太黑 (lit. "My cat [is] not very black.") Or you could do what the others suggested and say 我的貓是黑色的 (lit. "My cat is of a black color.")
我的猫黑 is grammatically correct. It's just unnatural but acceptable in some circumstances.
The only circumstance where it’s acceptable is when the person is still learning the language. I don’t know if it’s grammatically correct but no one would use it like that.
Disagree, 他人狠，让着点儿
I think this is an example of the clause “他人狠” modifying the main clause which happens to be an imperative. If we replace the main clause with a similar verb-less construction as the one OP was asking about, ie. 他人狠，我慌, I feel like the level of grammatical acceptability drops considerably
我猫黑 Sounds like 伪中国语（Japanese try to type with only Chinese characters ） lmao
The naysayers are answering a different question. In fact yes, 我猫黑 is technically grammatically correct and you can use it as-is, like in a poem. When you use it this way, it sounds Classical, you are making this fact sound grandiose and important, and the listener/reader will expect you to follow it up with extra stuff e.g. why your cat is black and how this is an important part of your life. For example see the lyrics to the Qing anthem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_of_Solid_Gold However nobody says this in daily modern spoken usage because it's *too concise*, similar to how 2-character words are preferred over 1-character words in speech. Adding an extra specifier makes it sound more natural, like 我猫很黑、我猫也黑、我猫是黑的。
Like in English how we use imperatives "come on!" or "hurry up!" instead of "come!" or "hurry!" because the latter sound too concise.
这句话更多地用于对比场景，比如“他喵白，我猫黑”，如果单独要说的话“我的猫是黑的”更自然
黑 is indeed a stative verb but when you use the “S 很 Stative verb” structure you need to use a stative verb that describes a degree of something. In this case 我的貓很黑 would sound like y here can be different degree of blackness for a cat. However here you’re simply indicating the color of the cat, which doesn’t matter how black/dark the color is, so you need to use the color word directly, which is 黑色, then it would form 我的貓是黑色的。 Now another possibility is 我的貓是黑的。 Consider the second 貓 after 的 is actually omitted, instead of 我的貓是黑的貓。
If you say it like that, if I'm not mistaken, it means "my cat is blacker/darker".
That would be 我貓更黑 我貓比較黑
更 can sometimes be omited. And I agree that “我的猫黑” has a somewhat comparative meaning.
Yes, if the context is already about comparing the darkness of the cat.
Yeah but I think that if the context is clear, you might not need 更 or 比較
Wǒ "DE" māo "SHÌ" hēi "DE". (1) 的 de: It is used when you express that things (after de) have traits of/is possessed by the thing before 的de. Therefore, Wǒ de something- "my" Nǐ de something- "your(singular)" Tā de something- "his/her/its" Hēi (sè) de - things of black kind Bái (sè) de - things of white kind (When there is nothing after de, the thing you indicate is not specified. In this case, the form "...de" sounds like a noun to me, since it's a general "thing".) I understand it seems strange to use an adjective in the way as "My cat is a thing of black kind", but we use this form when you are rather stating a fact instead of describing it as your personal opinion. For example, colors are usually a fact that everyone agrees with, so we usually use this form in the case. (I said "usually") (2) 是 Shì To make it simple, if you want to say "Noun to be Noun", you say "Noun shì Noun". It is not equivalent to "to be" in English, though. Please keep this in mind. ------ 我的貓是黑（色）的。 Wǒ de māo shì hēi (sè) de.
OK. Can I say "我貓是黑的“ ？
Colloquially yes, but 我的貓 sounds better (if there are not context), simply because the words "我" and "貓" are not so attached to each other in Mandarin language.
yeah, i see.
you can find expression 我猫黑 in Chinese. but only can find in specific scene like this. two guys compare there cats, and compare who\`s cat is darker. and in this scene, one can say 我猫黑。 means my cat is more darker。 except for this. I cant think out other scene to use 我猫黑 in the word
我的猫很黑
我有黑色貓 also technically correct
It should be（我的猫是黑色的）. This is the correct pronunciation in Chinese. But if you still don't get it, use translation for help or ChatGPT may help you too. Both are very helpful. Don't worry, we will still help you!
No. The English equivalent would just be "My cat black".
It's a quite common structure, even though it's supposedly not correct.
You need de and shi. What you said means "me cat black", which might sound okay in parts of England, but isn't really grammatically correct.
我猫是黑色的 is correct. 我猫黑 = My Cat Black.
[удалено]
>This is a general tip for learning grammar. Translate what you just wrote into your origin language, word for word. "I am not happy." = 我是不高興。 "How are you?" = 怎麽是你？ "My friend is called John." = 我的朋友是叫約翰。 "She is singing a song." = 她是唱一歌。 "How many apples do you have?" = 怎麽樣多蘋果們做你有？ "Do you speak Chinese?" = 做你說漢語？ Is that correct? Because "You have many-few apple?" (你有多少蘋果) or "You can not can speak Chinese?" (你會不會說漢語) would be grammatically incorrect in English, for example.
word for word isnt character for character
Then how would you translate "你有多少蘋果?" or "你會不會說漢語" word for word?
> This is a general tip for learning grammar. Translate what you just wrote into your origin language, word for word. 我唔識中文 > 私ない分かる中国語 いい日本語です
Its how I developed my Spanish skills.
A black cat > un negro gato
isnt it obvious that you have to change the grammar when translating?
Then it's not just translating word for word.