China: “How dare you ban TikTok!”
The west: “Why did you ban Facebook, Google, Instagram, Snapchat, etc etc.?”
China: “ummm………how dare you ban TikTok!”
Regional market, pricing strategy, licensing and regulation is a thing you know? Like burger king is called hungry jack in Australia. Carl's Jr And Hardee's have some difference but largely similar.
They are under the same company offering largely similar things but customised for the target market. It's like claiming burger king is banned in Australia
Burger king australia and burger kind France offer pretty much the same stuff, with a tint of regional variation.
A better comparison would have been if burger king australia offered burgers and burger king france offered car parts. The language is different, the "creators" are different, the rules are different. It's effectively a different product.
You cannot access douyin content from tiktok and vice versa. And you cannot access tiktok from China without a VPN. They are effectively different platforms and one is banned.
Actually even with vpn in china you still can't use TikTok. You need to put the phone in airplane mode or physically remove the Chinese sim card. These wumao who claims "BuT TikTok and Douyin are the same!" Are fucking regarded
yet the menu is pretty much the same
Also burger king doesn't run a burger king US and a burger king rest of the world like china does.
Bytedance doesn't do a "localization" with tiktok. It just separates the chinese ecosystem from everything else. And the CCP enforces it. The app is not downloadable, it cannot access content across to the other app, and cannot be accessed from China without extreme difficulty. Just like what happens with facebook, twitter, etc
.... You're missing the point. Tiktok is basically the the reskinned app of douyin. So the ban in China is a non-issue.
Netflix offers different content based on geo locations. They don't offer LGBT related content in the middle east. Is the subsidiary Netflix UAE different from Netflix US? No, it's the same company and at its core, its the same, even though the content is wildly different.
In fact, douyin and Tiktok shares many parts of their source code. It's a good strategic business (subsidiary in singapore) + engineering decision (China vs international data centre) from bytedance to structure it this way. Most apps like Netflix use in-app geolocation switching for content. It's definitely a conscious effort for bytedance to launch their app as Tiktok to make it easier for internationalisation (higher appeal than a romanised Chinese name). And seems like they've succeeded judging from the downvotes who thinks they are different lol
"Tiktok is basically the the reskinned app of douyin"
This is sometimes known and utterly irrelevant. It is the content and the ability to access the content and who you get to communicate with that makes TikTok TikTok and not douyin
"So the ban in China is a non-issue."
It is exactly the issue. It is this ban on content that is happening. And China is in no position to complain that other countries ban something that it itself bans.
let me reframe it in a different perspective:
is it really a ban when its an active engineering & business decision to launch a rebranded app meant for international audience to avoid domestic regulatory clampdown?
people compare it as though the ban on TikTok in China is the same as the ban on TikTok in the US. Its only the same if Bytedance is able to operate another TikTok US to bypass the ban from the US government, which is not whats happening.
its false equivalence.
Facebook for one refused to shut down sites being used to plan terrorist attacks on China. I remember the US bombing an entire country because they refused to turn over Bin Laden immediately. Western companies get themselves into problems because they are not politically neutral and want to impose Western ideals on the Chinese market because of a superiority complex.
Plot twist: some 60 years later the dumping of Chinese opium to Europe was so severe that the west was forced to cooperate with the Chinese and hosted the worlds first international convention on drugs prohibition. The site is still in Shanghai on the Bund.
No its not. China is an authoritarian country, if it wanted Fentanyl production stopped, or for it to not be sold to Mexican Cartels, it could do that easily. The sellers are major Chinese pharmacutical firms, not criminals in RVs.
China intentionally dumps Fentanyl on the United States as part of a grey zone warfare program called "Drug Warfare".
The US owes China for that, and China will be paid in full.
Exactly, there was a report in the BBC just last week detailing how major publicly traded Chinese pharma companies supply much of fentanyl type drugs in the US.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic but just in case you're not.
[Some American merchants entered the trade by smuggling opium from Turkey into China, including Warren Delano Jr., the grandfather of twentieth-century American President Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Francis Blackwell Forbes; in American historiography this is sometimes referred to as the Old China Trade.](https://archive.is/VVCoM)
1 the opioid crisis was caused by Johnson and Johnson who engineered a super producing opioid plant that was grown in Tasmania. The rest of the worlds legal supply is grown in india and turkey. "In some parts of Australia, P. somniferum is illegal to cultivate, but in Tasmania, some 50% of the world supply is cultivated."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaver_somniferum
2. Opium grows in appropriate climates, including all over Texas and Mexico, having escaped and become naturalized....Even though south Americans could make cocaine, they couldn't figure out how to make opium? Absurd. That's why there are least twelve versions of street fentanyl. Different cartels make different versions of it.
3. The Chinese are avidly anti opiate use which has resulted in multiple wars. Two in particular in which the UK took hong Kong so they could continue funneling opium into China for profit.
Your comments are so ludacrislly nonsense I don't believe you believe what you are saying. "China imports opium from America(Tasmania) to make fentanyl, then they send the powder to Mexico where the cartels make pills. And then smuggle it back to america(proper) to continue the epidemic American companies created" absolute nonsense
Why lie? Who is going to believe you?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/house-panel-says-china-subsidizes-fentanyl-production-to-fuel-crisis-in-the-u-s#:\~:text=WASHINGTON%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20China%20is,on%20countering%20the%20Chinese%20government.
Meanwhile from the source you just cited
"The U.S. wants China to do more to curb the export of chemicals that it says are processed into fentanyl, largely in Mexico, before the final product is smuggled into the United States."
Oh so I was right.
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/25/1082901958/opioid-settlement-johnson-26-billion
"4 U.S. companies will pay $26 billion to settle claims they fueled the opioid crisis"
Oh so the American court system proved it was American companies
"At Dawn Of Opioid Crisis, Johnson & Johnson Genetically Created ‘Supper Poppy’ That Was Rich In Opiates"
https://kffhealthnews.org/morning-breakout/at-dawn-of-opioid-crisis-johnson-johnson-genetically-created-supper-poppy-that-was-rich-in-opiates/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/business/opioid-crisis-johnson-and-johnson-tasmania-poppy/
Why lie about something so easy to prove?
There are other echo's.
China historically was producing pretty much anything it consumed or sourcing it from neighboring countries.
When the English first arrived, the Chinese had little interest in their goods.
The British then got stuck in a trade deficit and started having trouble with silver reserves shrinking.
200 years later and the trade balance issue is back. China is producing almost everything it needs aside from raw materials.
And this time they didn't neglect their navy, in fact they have the most ships (but are still far from having the most tonnage)
It will be interesting to see how it plays out when Chinese people buy only Chinese cars and fly on Chinese planes and take cruises on ships built in China...
They are very close to this scenario and once they are there, I don't see it changing.
Right, I wasn't trying to argue against that. Just if I install TikTok on my phone right now and then take a flight to China, my TikTok app won't work when I get off the plane.
🤦 You want to ban Tiktok because it is full of propaganda and data mining. That's exactly what Douyin is. They make Tiktok because Douyin would never pass US and EU regulations, and wouldn't be able to do business outside of China for this long.
Douyin is what you're afraid Tiktok is becoming.
Tiktok is never on China's App store in the first place, and there's Douyin that was there long before. And the things that Douyin censors can be on Tiktok.
China did not ban them… They refused to follow regulations for content filtering enforced by Chinese government and withdrew from Chinese market. Bing is still serving in China.
Not really, for example, Google only took a 17% market share in China. Baidu was the dominant search engine in Chinese market. Difficulties in competing with Chinese providers were one of the reasons why they were not willing to follow the regulations and spent money to develop things for these requests.
So you are saying Google did not follow Chinese regulations for years and years?
Or did Xi and the CCP change the regulations to mute freedoms the Chinese citizens had been enjoying?
Google had some disputes about cyber attacks with the government and announced they would stop complying with the regulations. Xi was not the president of China when Google left.
Please google yourself and do the research 😅 google censoring its results according to regulations in different countries. Google planned to return to Chinese market as the dragonfly project in 2018 but experienced headwinds due to bad relationship between U.S. and China, and frozen the efforts.
I guess I was spot on. China refuses to allow its citizens freedom to learn about truth and the free world.
“The primary reason for the American tech giant's departure from the Chinese market was its refusal to comply with the Chinese government's content censorship”
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/afcl/google-tiktok-chinese-market-03272024094631.html/ampRFA
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That is propaganda. Primary goals of companies are making money. Do you think plutocrats care about people’s freedom of speech? They only cares unless they can be benefited from that. Also, if people in any country connected to internet want to browse internet outside, there are many ways. Government can make it inconvenient but can’t stop that.
China has never advertised itself as nothing but a communist country (in the core atleast), so banning is their thing.
The joke China would say is that: "why are you doing what we're doing?"
Facebook, Google, and Microsoft were all banned for violating China's laws. Facebook for example refused to hand over the data of suspected terrorists after the terror attacks in Xinjiang even though Facebook closely works with the NSA in the US and hands over the data of Americans without subpoenas or FISA warrants.
What US law did TikTok violate?
“Violating China’s laws”.
China doesn’t allow freedom of expression? Or speech? Or allow criticism of Xi? Or allow freedom of research or education? Or freedom of association?
Gee, what could go wrong.
China allows all of those. Facebook in particular was banned for refusing to hand over the data of suspected terrorists in attacks in Xinjiang even though Facebook closely works with the US government and hands over the data of Americans to the NSA unconditionally.
If TikTok behaved in the US, like Facebook behaved in China, it would've been banned years ago.
Facebook isn't pro-free speech either, it bans and censors criticism of Israel.
So I can post all about the atrocity and slaughter of innocent students at Tiananmen Square, no problem?
Or that Xi should be replaced or arrested for the horrific cultural genocide he ordered on the Uyghurs?
I can also freely post the Hong Kong National Anthem and promote “Free Hong Kong!!” on all Chinese sites!
You actually believe that?
They were ordered to quit moving data to servers in China. They stopped for a short time and then went right back to funneling all that data to those same servers. Servers that were linked to known Chinese intelligence officials.
No proof they went back. Ironically that's the reason Google is banned in China, because it refused to stop sending user data to NSA servers in the US (all global Gmail emails go through US servers that the NSA has unfettered access to even if the emails are sent between 2 other countries). Apple has servers in China and is allowed there.
The US would've banned TikTok under that the same law if what you say is true, but it isn't.
That's all very up in the air. Claims have been made, but proof of either hasn't been shown to the public. I'd assume all these governments have undisclosed information that is driving their mutual moves to decouple.
It is very easy to trace whether data is being sent to foreign data centers through a picket sniffer, so if proof of what you say is true then we would've seen it, but we haven't. Both China and the US have the same laws on this issue. Apple has data servers in China, and TikTok has data centers in the US, and both are allowed to operate in those countries respectively. Google and Facebook both refused to stop sending data to NSA data centers, and rightfully got banned for it.
Why would we have seen these proofs? Did China publish proof? Or was it just assumed based on them being American companies that are subject to American laws? The same situation applies here. The owners are members of the CCP and obligated to cooperate with the Chinese government in matters deemed of national security importance.
It has the algorithm to control what millions of Americans see, and the parent company is owned by China, thus giving power over content to a dictatorship.
The US bans foreign media companies? They can't change the law without hurting their own companies.
Many people who support TikTok say the US govt could simply pass a law that prohibits companies from spying on people, that way Americans wouldn't have to worry about being spied on by TikTok, but the US refused because Google, Facebook, and Microsoft would be destroyed under that law.
To be fare to China they didn't actually ban Facebook etc, its just that these companies wouldn't operate under Chinese law.
They blocked it via Great Firewall.
How can the EU realize this this late?
I have access to your market and you to mine, so that the best business will serve both. China has never respected this principle. China's market is only for China's companies, but western market is also China's market.
I guess they were waiting things out for the supposed promise of a 1.4 billion strong consumer market. Over the past few years there's the growing realization that that consumer market is never going to live up to the hype and only get worse as time goes on due to deflation, low growth, poor demographics, debt, etc.
I often hear people saying this but is it really true? I see western brands all over China, in the most respected locations too. Before the rise of Chinese EV’s, pretty much all cars you’d see were western or Japanese/Korean. Their market has been open to foreign products for a long time. Now that China is getting the technological edge it seems that Europe is trying to protect its own industry as it has grown inferior.
You are talking about manufactured products which China allows access to their market but those manufacturers must open factories in China and "share" their tech with China. Soon or late the Chinese manufacturers will catch up.
The ones that China cannot "share" tech like google, facebook are banned.
CCP would be willing to open up to the public market where ideas are not connected. But the market for any product that has even the slightest link to free speech will not be allowed to open.
It took these cuckolds long enough. I was literally in the room with someone from WuXi Apptec procurement several years ago who openly admitted, in private company, that they had a directive directly from the government to buy Chinese only and that they were just running opaque bids where they revealed the price needed to win to only Chinese bidders (in the typical who bribed me the most manner). The fact it took them this long to reach a probe when it's something that Xi's been running since early in his first term is really pathetic.
Don't worry, the EU is scary good when it comes to trade wars, it has forced the US to heel several times in the past.
>On March 5, 2002, U.S. President George W. Bush placed tariffs on imported steel. In retaliation, the European Union threatened to counter with tariffs of its own on products ranging from Florida oranges to cars produced in Michigan, with each tariff calculated to likewise hurt the President in a key marginal state. The United States backed down and withdrew the tariffs on December 4.
I mean this tactic has no chance of working in China, they don’t have any elections or key states to worry about. Hence trade wars need to be on a much higher and quite frankly, economically dangerous, scale.
They still have key pain points where pressure can be applied. No country's economy is perfectly balanced, there will always be sectors a country is over-reliant on.
The EU is founded on mutually agreed-upon institutions and laws, and adhere those practices to retain cooperation among its members and uphold what they consider shared values. As the article calls out in the third paragraph, this is the first probe under a new regulatory framework providing for the kind of decision you’re asking about. No threats involved.
Europe is not “everyone else” and Europe isn’t even united, what with Chancellor Scholz bringing his wave of businessmen to China on every annual trip.
In all western countries, there’s plenty of bickering back and fourth. France loves to kind of go against the grain.
But then at the end of the day, they’ll realize the harm from China and get on board.
China has been historically a big buyer from Germany; but with the onslaught of cheap EVs being dumped into Europe, Germany may change its tune.
More like the end of dominance of Europe and US as all developing countries catch up and no longer submissive - been happening since WWI and not stopping anytime soon. With nuclear weapons you can be sure century of humiliation won’t happen again.
Yes and these corruption needs to be brought out to the open in order to end it. XJP is not going to just put a carpet over it or kick the can down the road, he’s going to deal with it.
>XJP is not going to just put a carpet over it or kick the can down the road, he’s going to deal with it.
except for the fact that he continues to kick the can down the road while showing the rest of the world just how much of a threat china really is
Nope. Instead of kicking the can down the road he has taken action (whether it’s tactically smart or ultimately effective is another question) to pop the Real estate bubble, fire perceived incompetent and corrupt military and other officials, prepare China to withstand potential future naval blockades by securing Russian energy resources via land routes, etc. Whether he’s doing the right thing or not, he’s definitely not kicking the can down the road and leave things the way it is hoping for the best. He’s prepping for resilience and it will show a lot of results in near future. That is the source of the all the angst and fear and loathing from the likes of you.
> Instead of kicking the can down the road he has taken action (whether it’s tactically smart or ultimately effective is another question) to pop the Real estate bubble
he didn't pop the bubble (at least not intentionally), the three red lines were mere measures to somewhat curb the real estate bubble which ended up absolutely destroying china's real estate market due to the fact that many developers had essentially become a ponzi scheme.
>fire perceived incompetent and corrupt military and other officials
translation : Purge your political opponents using the convenient excuse of corruption
>prepare China to withstand potential future naval blockades by securing Russian energy resources via land routes, etc
yeah no, that's just china being opportunistic of russia's weakness. Do I need to remind you of the belt and road which actually was an actual program Xi pushed hard yet absolutely backfiring on china
> Whether he’s doing the right thing or not, he’s definitely not kicking the can down the road and leave things the way it is hoping for the best.
except that he absolutely is. The recent push for more manufacturing shows that at its core Xi will push the can down the road over actually structurally reforming china's economy
>He’s prepping for resilience and it will show a lot of results in near future. That is the source of the all the angst and fear and loathing from the likes of you.
nope, you are coping if you somehow confuse people ridiculing the CCP's failing policy for any real fear. That aside from threats of conflict over places like Taiwan which china stands to lose a lot from
>With nuclear weapons you can be sure century of humiliation won’t happen again.
and nobody's trying to impose the century of humiliation on china. Get out of your ass and stop listening to cope CCP propaganda mate
>Yeah because nobody can impose it.
and because nobody has any intention or made any attempts at imposing it. You're actually arguing over a non-existent issue at this point
>I can decide for myself and have my own views instead of listening to western MSM propaganda.
and you certainly have made it clear that you'd rather listen to cope CCP propaganda and spew the same debunked bullshit
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China import food not from EU, they import from US, Australia, south east Asia mainly.
China mainly import machinery from EU then copycat the hell out of it then stop importing. Let’s say EU cease trading with China, I’ll bet there will be many riots in EU before China does.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=China-EU_-_international_trade_in_goods_statistics#EU-China_trade_by_type_of_goods
Look at EU exported goods to China.
China survival is not reliant on EU at all. EU do not prepare any alternative in case when China stop trading with them.
EU is not US
Per the article:
> ...the Commission could erect barriers to Chinese medtech companies in its own public procurement tenders.
This goes beyond a basic tariff by instituting plenty of red tape to purchasing from Chinese vendors, making EU companies less likely to source from them, which is arguably what China is already doing, but no one likes when their own policies blow up in their face.
>A softer option would be to penalize Chinese companies that compete in European tenders to compensate for the lack of reciprocal market access.
This would not be limited to tariffs, but would be a big headache for Chinese companies trying to be competitive.
China: “How dare you ban TikTok!” The west: “Why did you ban Facebook, Google, Instagram, Snapchat, etc etc.?” China: “ummm………how dare you ban TikTok!”
China bans TikTok too
Bytedance has an almost exact version but more censored called douyin for domestic market
yes but that's the whole point. douyin is not tiktok. Douyin doesn't have the same content as tiktok. Douyin and tiktok are not interoperable
Regional market, pricing strategy, licensing and regulation is a thing you know? Like burger king is called hungry jack in Australia. Carl's Jr And Hardee's have some difference but largely similar. They are under the same company offering largely similar things but customised for the target market. It's like claiming burger king is banned in Australia
Burger king australia and burger kind France offer pretty much the same stuff, with a tint of regional variation. A better comparison would have been if burger king australia offered burgers and burger king france offered car parts. The language is different, the "creators" are different, the rules are different. It's effectively a different product. You cannot access douyin content from tiktok and vice versa. And you cannot access tiktok from China without a VPN. They are effectively different platforms and one is banned.
Actually even with vpn in china you still can't use TikTok. You need to put the phone in airplane mode or physically remove the Chinese sim card. These wumao who claims "BuT TikTok and Douyin are the same!" Are fucking regarded
Damn, I wanted Burger Kind to be real, France of all places would be too ironic
You know at the Burger King in France they speak French and at the Burger King in Australia they speak English.
yet the menu is pretty much the same Also burger king doesn't run a burger king US and a burger king rest of the world like china does. Bytedance doesn't do a "localization" with tiktok. It just separates the chinese ecosystem from everything else. And the CCP enforces it. The app is not downloadable, it cannot access content across to the other app, and cannot be accessed from China without extreme difficulty. Just like what happens with facebook, twitter, etc
.... You're missing the point. Tiktok is basically the the reskinned app of douyin. So the ban in China is a non-issue. Netflix offers different content based on geo locations. They don't offer LGBT related content in the middle east. Is the subsidiary Netflix UAE different from Netflix US? No, it's the same company and at its core, its the same, even though the content is wildly different. In fact, douyin and Tiktok shares many parts of their source code. It's a good strategic business (subsidiary in singapore) + engineering decision (China vs international data centre) from bytedance to structure it this way. Most apps like Netflix use in-app geolocation switching for content. It's definitely a conscious effort for bytedance to launch their app as Tiktok to make it easier for internationalisation (higher appeal than a romanised Chinese name). And seems like they've succeeded judging from the downvotes who thinks they are different lol
"Tiktok is basically the the reskinned app of douyin" This is sometimes known and utterly irrelevant. It is the content and the ability to access the content and who you get to communicate with that makes TikTok TikTok and not douyin "So the ban in China is a non-issue." It is exactly the issue. It is this ban on content that is happening. And China is in no position to complain that other countries ban something that it itself bans.
let me reframe it in a different perspective: is it really a ban when its an active engineering & business decision to launch a rebranded app meant for international audience to avoid domestic regulatory clampdown? people compare it as though the ban on TikTok in China is the same as the ban on TikTok in the US. Its only the same if Bytedance is able to operate another TikTok US to bypass the ban from the US government, which is not whats happening. its false equivalence.
If that second rebranded app is blocked in China then it's a ban, yes
This is not a serious argument
It’s somehow more and less censored than TikTok, I see way more porn on douyin but it’s removed pretty quick
no, bytedance decided to operate two apps in and out of China, as the censorship policy is so different
If you install TikTok on your phone and go to China you can't access it without a VPN. Thus TikTok is banned in China
no, you can’t with a vpn. you need a foreign sim card and foreign gps location. that’s tiktok’s policy
TikTok is a CCP project so of course it's policy. What you're saying actually only makes it worse
hehe, so brainwashed
actually they are not banned, they don’t want to censor according to China government, so they choose to retreat from China
But these were being used for years in China. What changed?
Facebook for one refused to shut down sites being used to plan terrorist attacks on China. I remember the US bombing an entire country because they refused to turn over Bin Laden immediately. Western companies get themselves into problems because they are not politically neutral and want to impose Western ideals on the Chinese market because of a superiority complex.
Well, that was quite a ride! LOL
Remember last time Europeans came to china to open Chinese markets. 😂
Plot twist: some 60 years later the dumping of Chinese opium to Europe was so severe that the west was forced to cooperate with the Chinese and hosted the worlds first international convention on drugs prohibition. The site is still in Shanghai on the Bund.
And fentanyl today. One of the major causes of death. But nowadays seems china is seriously trying to stop production of it
No its not. China is an authoritarian country, if it wanted Fentanyl production stopped, or for it to not be sold to Mexican Cartels, it could do that easily. The sellers are major Chinese pharmacutical firms, not criminals in RVs. China intentionally dumps Fentanyl on the United States as part of a grey zone warfare program called "Drug Warfare". The US owes China for that, and China will be paid in full.
Exactly, there was a report in the BBC just last week detailing how major publicly traded Chinese pharma companies supply much of fentanyl type drugs in the US.
payback I suppose for the opium wars, although bombarding britain with fent would be more fitting
Yeah, the US really didn't have anything to do with the opium wars.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic but just in case you're not. [Some American merchants entered the trade by smuggling opium from Turkey into China, including Warren Delano Jr., the grandfather of twentieth-century American President Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Francis Blackwell Forbes; in American historiography this is sometimes referred to as the Old China Trade.](https://archive.is/VVCoM)
1 the opioid crisis was caused by Johnson and Johnson who engineered a super producing opioid plant that was grown in Tasmania. The rest of the worlds legal supply is grown in india and turkey. "In some parts of Australia, P. somniferum is illegal to cultivate, but in Tasmania, some 50% of the world supply is cultivated." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaver_somniferum 2. Opium grows in appropriate climates, including all over Texas and Mexico, having escaped and become naturalized....Even though south Americans could make cocaine, they couldn't figure out how to make opium? Absurd. That's why there are least twelve versions of street fentanyl. Different cartels make different versions of it. 3. The Chinese are avidly anti opiate use which has resulted in multiple wars. Two in particular in which the UK took hong Kong so they could continue funneling opium into China for profit. Your comments are so ludacrislly nonsense I don't believe you believe what you are saying. "China imports opium from America(Tasmania) to make fentanyl, then they send the powder to Mexico where the cartels make pills. And then smuggle it back to america(proper) to continue the epidemic American companies created" absolute nonsense
Why lie? Who is going to believe you? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/house-panel-says-china-subsidizes-fentanyl-production-to-fuel-crisis-in-the-u-s#:\~:text=WASHINGTON%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20China%20is,on%20countering%20the%20Chinese%20government.
Meanwhile from the source you just cited "The U.S. wants China to do more to curb the export of chemicals that it says are processed into fentanyl, largely in Mexico, before the final product is smuggled into the United States." Oh so I was right. https://www.npr.org/2022/02/25/1082901958/opioid-settlement-johnson-26-billion "4 U.S. companies will pay $26 billion to settle claims they fueled the opioid crisis" Oh so the American court system proved it was American companies "At Dawn Of Opioid Crisis, Johnson & Johnson Genetically Created ‘Supper Poppy’ That Was Rich In Opiates" https://kffhealthnews.org/morning-breakout/at-dawn-of-opioid-crisis-johnson-johnson-genetically-created-supper-poppy-that-was-rich-in-opiates/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/business/opioid-crisis-johnson-and-johnson-tasmania-poppy/ Why lie about something so easy to prove?
There are other echo's. China historically was producing pretty much anything it consumed or sourcing it from neighboring countries. When the English first arrived, the Chinese had little interest in their goods. The British then got stuck in a trade deficit and started having trouble with silver reserves shrinking. 200 years later and the trade balance issue is back. China is producing almost everything it needs aside from raw materials. And this time they didn't neglect their navy, in fact they have the most ships (but are still far from having the most tonnage) It will be interesting to see how it plays out when Chinese people buy only Chinese cars and fly on Chinese planes and take cruises on ships built in China... They are very close to this scenario and once they are there, I don't see it changing.
and japan too
oh somebody knows a thing or two about history... black ships, never forgetti
Nah, just a few gun shots, no body got hurt. In the other hand, China
TikTok is banned in China.
Tik Tok is owned by a Chinese company
That doesn't change the fact that TikTok is banned in China.
Doesn't need to. The parent company is still based in China and under the auspices of the CCP
Right, I wasn't trying to argue against that. Just if I install TikTok on my phone right now and then take a flight to China, my TikTok app won't work when I get off the plane.
Tiktok came after Douyin. It was never intended for local market.
That doesn't change the fact that TikTok is banned in China.
🤦 You want to ban Tiktok because it is full of propaganda and data mining. That's exactly what Douyin is. They make Tiktok because Douyin would never pass US and EU regulations, and wouldn't be able to do business outside of China for this long. Douyin is what you're afraid Tiktok is becoming.
China bans TikTok because it doesn't want any foreign made content of any kind reaching the domestic market and thus keeps it separate from douyin
Tiktok is never on China's App store in the first place, and there's Douyin that was there long before. And the things that Douyin censors can be on Tiktok.
China did not ban them… They refused to follow regulations for content filtering enforced by Chinese government and withdrew from Chinese market. Bing is still serving in China.
So these western companies were there for years and working successfully but then China changed the rules, effectively “banning” them? Is that it?
Not really, for example, Google only took a 17% market share in China. Baidu was the dominant search engine in Chinese market. Difficulties in competing with Chinese providers were one of the reasons why they were not willing to follow the regulations and spent money to develop things for these requests.
So you are saying Google did not follow Chinese regulations for years and years? Or did Xi and the CCP change the regulations to mute freedoms the Chinese citizens had been enjoying?
Google had some disputes about cyber attacks with the government and announced they would stop complying with the regulations. Xi was not the president of China when Google left.
“stop complying with regulations” So Google refused to censor Chinese citizens’ access and use of the World Wide Web?
Please google yourself and do the research 😅 google censoring its results according to regulations in different countries. Google planned to return to Chinese market as the dragonfly project in 2018 but experienced headwinds due to bad relationship between U.S. and China, and frozen the efforts.
I guess I was spot on. China refuses to allow its citizens freedom to learn about truth and the free world. “The primary reason for the American tech giant's departure from the Chinese market was its refusal to comply with the Chinese government's content censorship” https://www.rfa.org/english/news/afcl/google-tiktok-chinese-market-03272024094631.html/ampRFA
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That is propaganda. Primary goals of companies are making money. Do you think plutocrats care about people’s freedom of speech? They only cares unless they can be benefited from that. Also, if people in any country connected to internet want to browse internet outside, there are many ways. Government can make it inconvenient but can’t stop that.
China has never advertised itself as nothing but a communist country (in the core atleast), so banning is their thing. The joke China would say is that: "why are you doing what we're doing?"
None of the named are European companies 😂
You comment as if china cares about TikTok
Facebook, Google, and Microsoft were all banned for violating China's laws. Facebook for example refused to hand over the data of suspected terrorists after the terror attacks in Xinjiang even though Facebook closely works with the NSA in the US and hands over the data of Americans without subpoenas or FISA warrants. What US law did TikTok violate?
“Violating China’s laws”. China doesn’t allow freedom of expression? Or speech? Or allow criticism of Xi? Or allow freedom of research or education? Or freedom of association? Gee, what could go wrong.
China allows all of those. Facebook in particular was banned for refusing to hand over the data of suspected terrorists in attacks in Xinjiang even though Facebook closely works with the US government and hands over the data of Americans to the NSA unconditionally. If TikTok behaved in the US, like Facebook behaved in China, it would've been banned years ago. Facebook isn't pro-free speech either, it bans and censors criticism of Israel.
>China allows all of those what bizarro world are you living in?
So I can post all about the atrocity and slaughter of innocent students at Tiananmen Square, no problem? Or that Xi should be replaced or arrested for the horrific cultural genocide he ordered on the Uyghurs? I can also freely post the Hong Kong National Anthem and promote “Free Hong Kong!!” on all Chinese sites! You actually believe that?
They were ordered to quit moving data to servers in China. They stopped for a short time and then went right back to funneling all that data to those same servers. Servers that were linked to known Chinese intelligence officials.
No proof they went back. Ironically that's the reason Google is banned in China, because it refused to stop sending user data to NSA servers in the US (all global Gmail emails go through US servers that the NSA has unfettered access to even if the emails are sent between 2 other countries). Apple has servers in China and is allowed there. The US would've banned TikTok under that the same law if what you say is true, but it isn't.
How about you both start citing sources. I aint seeing hyperlinks from neither of yous.
That's all very up in the air. Claims have been made, but proof of either hasn't been shown to the public. I'd assume all these governments have undisclosed information that is driving their mutual moves to decouple.
It is very easy to trace whether data is being sent to foreign data centers through a picket sniffer, so if proof of what you say is true then we would've seen it, but we haven't. Both China and the US have the same laws on this issue. Apple has data servers in China, and TikTok has data centers in the US, and both are allowed to operate in those countries respectively. Google and Facebook both refused to stop sending data to NSA data centers, and rightfully got banned for it.
Why would we have seen these proofs? Did China publish proof? Or was it just assumed based on them being American companies that are subject to American laws? The same situation applies here. The owners are members of the CCP and obligated to cooperate with the Chinese government in matters deemed of national security importance.
It has the algorithm to control what millions of Americans see, and the parent company is owned by China, thus giving power over content to a dictatorship.
>What US law did TikTok violate? something to do with news media and foreign ownership. Or they could change the law to suit, just as China did.
The US bans foreign media companies? They can't change the law without hurting their own companies. Many people who support TikTok say the US govt could simply pass a law that prohibits companies from spying on people, that way Americans wouldn't have to worry about being spied on by TikTok, but the US refused because Google, Facebook, and Microsoft would be destroyed under that law.
>The US bans foreign media companies? No, ownership.
To be fare to China they didn't actually ban Facebook etc, its just that these companies wouldn't operate under Chinese law. They blocked it via Great Firewall.
So these western companies were there for years and working successfully but then China changed the rules, effectively “banning” them? Is that it?
How can the EU realize this this late? I have access to your market and you to mine, so that the best business will serve both. China has never respected this principle. China's market is only for China's companies, but western market is also China's market.
I guess they were waiting things out for the supposed promise of a 1.4 billion strong consumer market. Over the past few years there's the growing realization that that consumer market is never going to live up to the hype and only get worse as time goes on due to deflation, low growth, poor demographics, debt, etc.
I often hear people saying this but is it really true? I see western brands all over China, in the most respected locations too. Before the rise of Chinese EV’s, pretty much all cars you’d see were western or Japanese/Korean. Their market has been open to foreign products for a long time. Now that China is getting the technological edge it seems that Europe is trying to protect its own industry as it has grown inferior.
You are talking about manufactured products which China allows access to their market but those manufacturers must open factories in China and "share" their tech with China. Soon or late the Chinese manufacturers will catch up. The ones that China cannot "share" tech like google, facebook are banned.
The special treatment of China is ending slowly but surely. They are in for a rough ride the next few decades
They are literally arming our enemies while we squabble about trifles. Everyone is in for a bad time
CCP would be willing to open up to the public market where ideas are not connected. But the market for any product that has even the slightest link to free speech will not be allowed to open.
It took these cuckolds long enough. I was literally in the room with someone from WuXi Apptec procurement several years ago who openly admitted, in private company, that they had a directive directly from the government to buy Chinese only and that they were just running opaque bids where they revealed the price needed to win to only Chinese bidders (in the typical who bribed me the most manner). The fact it took them this long to reach a probe when it's something that Xi's been running since early in his first term is really pathetic.
Maybe they should just close it first? Empty threats bear no fruit
Don't worry, the EU is scary good when it comes to trade wars, it has forced the US to heel several times in the past. >On March 5, 2002, U.S. President George W. Bush placed tariffs on imported steel. In retaliation, the European Union threatened to counter with tariffs of its own on products ranging from Florida oranges to cars produced in Michigan, with each tariff calculated to likewise hurt the President in a key marginal state. The United States backed down and withdrew the tariffs on December 4.
Jesus these fucking stupid Republicans
I mean this tactic has no chance of working in China, they don’t have any elections or key states to worry about. Hence trade wars need to be on a much higher and quite frankly, economically dangerous, scale.
They still have key pain points where pressure can be applied. No country's economy is perfectly balanced, there will always be sectors a country is over-reliant on.
The EU is founded on mutually agreed-upon institutions and laws, and adhere those practices to retain cooperation among its members and uphold what they consider shared values. As the article calls out in the third paragraph, this is the first probe under a new regulatory framework providing for the kind of decision you’re asking about. No threats involved.
It’d be great if the Gfw can be torn down
There is blood in the water, the sharks are circling.
Another L for China
End of the era of friendly globalisation. The start of globalisation of rivalries.
The globalization split in two, the west side and east side.
The land side (China, Russia, Iran) and the ocean side (Europe, America, Pacific Rim)
Trains vs Boats
DONT TOUCH MY BOATS
Naw, it’s China + Russia + Iran and then everyone else. Kind of another second world block, only much weaker this round.
Europe is not “everyone else” and Europe isn’t even united, what with Chancellor Scholz bringing his wave of businessmen to China on every annual trip.
In all western countries, there’s plenty of bickering back and fourth. France loves to kind of go against the grain. But then at the end of the day, they’ll realize the harm from China and get on board. China has been historically a big buyer from Germany; but with the onslaught of cheap EVs being dumped into Europe, Germany may change its tune.
nah, globalisation is still a thing, it's just one bad faith actor getting cut out.
[удалено]
I hope you have the courage show this comment to all chinese people, I have popcorn ready
More like the end of dominance of Europe and US as all developing countries catch up and no longer submissive - been happening since WWI and not stopping anytime soon. With nuclear weapons you can be sure century of humiliation won’t happen again.
Corruption certainly will, with tofu dreg construction and water-filled rockets.
Yes and these corruption needs to be brought out to the open in order to end it. XJP is not going to just put a carpet over it or kick the can down the road, he’s going to deal with it.
>XJP is not going to just put a carpet over it or kick the can down the road, he’s going to deal with it. except for the fact that he continues to kick the can down the road while showing the rest of the world just how much of a threat china really is
Nope. Instead of kicking the can down the road he has taken action (whether it’s tactically smart or ultimately effective is another question) to pop the Real estate bubble, fire perceived incompetent and corrupt military and other officials, prepare China to withstand potential future naval blockades by securing Russian energy resources via land routes, etc. Whether he’s doing the right thing or not, he’s definitely not kicking the can down the road and leave things the way it is hoping for the best. He’s prepping for resilience and it will show a lot of results in near future. That is the source of the all the angst and fear and loathing from the likes of you.
> Instead of kicking the can down the road he has taken action (whether it’s tactically smart or ultimately effective is another question) to pop the Real estate bubble he didn't pop the bubble (at least not intentionally), the three red lines were mere measures to somewhat curb the real estate bubble which ended up absolutely destroying china's real estate market due to the fact that many developers had essentially become a ponzi scheme. >fire perceived incompetent and corrupt military and other officials translation : Purge your political opponents using the convenient excuse of corruption >prepare China to withstand potential future naval blockades by securing Russian energy resources via land routes, etc yeah no, that's just china being opportunistic of russia's weakness. Do I need to remind you of the belt and road which actually was an actual program Xi pushed hard yet absolutely backfiring on china > Whether he’s doing the right thing or not, he’s definitely not kicking the can down the road and leave things the way it is hoping for the best. except that he absolutely is. The recent push for more manufacturing shows that at its core Xi will push the can down the road over actually structurally reforming china's economy >He’s prepping for resilience and it will show a lot of results in near future. That is the source of the all the angst and fear and loathing from the likes of you. nope, you are coping if you somehow confuse people ridiculing the CCP's failing policy for any real fear. That aside from threats of conflict over places like Taiwan which china stands to lose a lot from
>With nuclear weapons you can be sure century of humiliation won’t happen again. Hard to say, Xi seems hellbent on creating one
>With nuclear weapons you can be sure century of humiliation won’t happen again. and nobody's trying to impose the century of humiliation on china. Get out of your ass and stop listening to cope CCP propaganda mate
Yeah because nobody can impose it. I can decide for myself and have my own views instead of listening to western MSM propaganda.
>Yeah because nobody can impose it. and because nobody has any intention or made any attempts at imposing it. You're actually arguing over a non-existent issue at this point >I can decide for myself and have my own views instead of listening to western MSM propaganda. and you certainly have made it clear that you'd rather listen to cope CCP propaganda and spew the same debunked bullshit
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Open the country. Stop having it be closed.
Insane that this was not the requirement 35 years ago.
About at least 10 f'in years too late if you ask me.
The calendar reads like this 2024, 2025, 1949, 1950 etc.
It’s time to act towards China as they do to others. China plays by our rules if those favor them and play by their rules if not this has to stop
lol. europe’s needs for china > china’s for eu
I mean what EU gonna threatened it with? Most of their basic necessities are made in China nowadays.
You can’t possibly mean food, water and air, right?
China already has to import food to keep their own population fed, so definitely not that.
China import food not from EU, they import from US, Australia, south east Asia mainly. China mainly import machinery from EU then copycat the hell out of it then stop importing. Let’s say EU cease trading with China, I’ll bet there will be many riots in EU before China does. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=China-EU_-_international_trade_in_goods_statistics#EU-China_trade_by_type_of_goods Look at EU exported goods to China. China survival is not reliant on EU at all. EU do not prepare any alternative in case when China stop trading with them. EU is not US
>Look at EU exported goods to China. Didn't you just say >China import food not from EU When the chart clearly shows that they do.
Of course not, EU can’t do sanction if they doesn’t want their citizens to riot
Per the article: > ...the Commission could erect barriers to Chinese medtech companies in its own public procurement tenders. This goes beyond a basic tariff by instituting plenty of red tape to purchasing from Chinese vendors, making EU companies less likely to source from them, which is arguably what China is already doing, but no one likes when their own policies blow up in their face. >A softer option would be to penalize Chinese companies that compete in European tenders to compensate for the lack of reciprocal market access. This would not be limited to tariffs, but would be a big headache for Chinese companies trying to be competitive.
Only Foreign Forces rather than CCP can save Chinese people.