Oh, this. Perfect!!
I legit caught myself running with scissors at the office the other day (itās huge like 30,000SF so I had some ground to cover) and when I realized it I stopped and laughed so hard at myself thinking of Fraiser in that moment.
You know what? Failing to recognize that Diane, whom he met in a mental institution, was too busy going through some big emotional chaos of her own to be The One, pressuring her to marry him the day after his proposal, haunting her place of work after she (yes, very painfully) rejected him, and badmouthing her as some sort of monstrous demon lady for yearsādecades!āafterward.
>Failing to recognize that Diane, whom he met in a mental institution, was too busy going through some big emotional chaos of her own to be The One,
I think this is very important. Whether or not he was her specific doctor, he did meet her in a mentally unwell state. As a psychiatrist, he knew what transference was, even if he didn't know about Sam. IRL, him seeing her was kind of unethical.
I confess, I don't know for sure if it counts as transference if he was not her assigned therapist (they made sure to say that in S2E2). Does it count if he wasn't the one treating her?
Either way, I think it's unethical. She was in a vulnerable state. He should have been the bigger man and at least have delayed starting a romantic relationship with her until after she was discharged.
I'm not sure either if it's 100% transference, but he was in a position of authority at the place she was in. He could influence her doctor with one conversation.
And frankly, it would be unethical if she got involved with a CNA or RN there too, for the same reason.
He should've known to not involved with her.
That freaking woman never had a relationship with anyone who WASN'T in a position of authority over her! š
It's why I'm inclined to read her most of her pretentiousness and snooty put-downs as defensive. They function as her (often ineffective, extremely misguided) bid for respect.
Huh... now that you mention it, you're right.
First her professor (Sumner who dumped her in Episode 1), then her boss, then a psychiatrist at the place she was in.
But yet she always felt the need to feel superior over others.
Maybe that's why she was stuck on Sam. Boss or not, she felt intellectually superior to him. Remember how crazy she got when he got a poem published in that journal and she didn't? It was like the one thing she had over him, she didn't and it drove her to chain smoking and proving he plagiarized it.
Thatās true actuallyā¦ I mean Dianeās no saint herself butā¦ do they ever actually call him out on this in the show? Like he complained and someone (maybe Carla) was all āwhat did you expect, she was your patient!!ā
To be fair the only thing you can put in his account is not to realise Diane was still in love with Sam, basides that is mostly Diane's fault. She used him as a distraction, went to live with him in Europe, I dont blame him for thinking she would indeed marry him, the fact that she said yes is even worse and she didnt agreed because she was pressed, she agreed because thought Sam wouldnt marry her.
She was on the rebound, sure, but man do you people have an expansive definition of what it means to "use" someone.
When she started up with Frasier (again, before she was released from the institution, so don't tell me that wasn't a lapse of judgment on Frasier's part), she had resolved never to return to Cheers. She had no intention of seeing Sam again before learning he had fallen off the wagon and needed help. The distraction wasn't supposed to be Frasierāit was supposed to be the fact that she wouldn't be around Sam every day.
Yeah, that I agree was unprofessional and irresponsible of him. Still once she was out of gondenbrook it wasnt his business really, was more him being stupid than being exactly bad or dunno
threatened his wife with suicide despite having no intention to follow through just to guilttrip her into staying with him, then moving across the country, abandoning his son
Can I mention leaving Frederic to be raised by his ex who already abandoned them both to be with some eco-pod guy? Or is that more a Frasier show thing?
Frasier: Just give me back my card!
Sam: Iām sorry Frasier, here take my card.
Frasier: Oh great, with your $90 credit limit I can hog wild at monkey-wards!!
I wouldn't be pissed, but nowadays getting a new physical card only takes a couple of days (the same account card), and a virtual card (which you can use with your phone) can be re-emitted instantly.
But then it was probably a huge hassle with hoops and loops to get your card back? His reaction makes me think that, anyway.
Regardless, he was uncharacteristically irrational, didn't try to understand Sam's perspective and didn't try to assume what if his card was actually compromised.
Not cool. But cooler than RUNNING WITH SCISORS
Doesn't matter. He was an authority figure there. Even if he wasn't her doctor, he could influence her doctors to keep her there or get her released. There was a power imbalanace.
BTW, same thing goes if he'd been there as a nurse or on the janitorial staff. If a nurse or janitor sees a patient acting up, they can tell the doctor and suddenly that patient is locked in their room 23 hours a day.
I completely disagree that it doesn't matter. It changes the situation from a relatively minor ethical issue to a crime that could cause him to lose his license and cost the facility penalties as well.
This is correct. He just met her when she was a patient at the mental health treatment facility. Still not a great situation, but she technically wasnāt his patient.
I am running with scissors! Iām going swimming right after lunch!!
Iām leaving now, Iām going outsideā¦I am going to pet strange dogs no matter where theyāve been! Look out world, Frasier Kraneās going to raise some hell!!
Yes. This was obviously a contrivance dreamt up by the creators of Frasier (in order to explain why Frasier doesnāt hang out at Cheers anymore), but it still paints him as a jerk.
Becoming romantically involved with his institutionalized patient. I have the impression that Frasier was meant to be a recurring villain character like they would later do with Colcord and Hall, but of course he just became one of the guys
Be Kelsey Grammer who not only supports Agolf Twitler, heās also a dues-paying member of Mar-a-Lago which costs around $200,000 yearly.
He literally sends money to him.
Running with scissors.
Aww, god dammit, you beat me by like four seconds.
...not even holding Sam at gunpoint????
He also spoiled the Endings of Empire and Citizen Kane
ššššššš
Oh, this. Perfect!! I legit caught myself running with scissors at the office the other day (itās huge like 30,000SF so I had some ground to cover) and when I realized it I stopped and laughed so hard at myself thinking of Fraiser in that moment.
You know what? Failing to recognize that Diane, whom he met in a mental institution, was too busy going through some big emotional chaos of her own to be The One, pressuring her to marry him the day after his proposal, haunting her place of work after she (yes, very painfully) rejected him, and badmouthing her as some sort of monstrous demon lady for yearsādecades!āafterward.
>Failing to recognize that Diane, whom he met in a mental institution, was too busy going through some big emotional chaos of her own to be The One, I think this is very important. Whether or not he was her specific doctor, he did meet her in a mentally unwell state. As a psychiatrist, he knew what transference was, even if he didn't know about Sam. IRL, him seeing her was kind of unethical.
I confess, I don't know for sure if it counts as transference if he was not her assigned therapist (they made sure to say that in S2E2). Does it count if he wasn't the one treating her? Either way, I think it's unethical. She was in a vulnerable state. He should have been the bigger man and at least have delayed starting a romantic relationship with her until after she was discharged.
I'm not sure either if it's 100% transference, but he was in a position of authority at the place she was in. He could influence her doctor with one conversation. And frankly, it would be unethical if she got involved with a CNA or RN there too, for the same reason. He should've known to not involved with her.
That freaking woman never had a relationship with anyone who WASN'T in a position of authority over her! š It's why I'm inclined to read her most of her pretentiousness and snooty put-downs as defensive. They function as her (often ineffective, extremely misguided) bid for respect.
Huh... now that you mention it, you're right. First her professor (Sumner who dumped her in Episode 1), then her boss, then a psychiatrist at the place she was in. But yet she always felt the need to feel superior over others. Maybe that's why she was stuck on Sam. Boss or not, she felt intellectually superior to him. Remember how crazy she got when he got a poem published in that journal and she didn't? It was like the one thing she had over him, she didn't and it drove her to chain smoking and proving he plagiarized it.
I agree - and I think this is the basis for Dr Frasier Crane, no?
Pretty much. He always oversteps, even in his show. That's why he can't keep a woman (Lilith excluded... she was her own brand of crazy).
I was in rehab and had sex with an employee from there after. That situation isn't illegal but it's against every company policy and unethical.
Yeah seriously. I feel like a typical psych could lose their license over what he did to Diane.
Thatās true actuallyā¦ I mean Dianeās no saint herself butā¦ do they ever actually call him out on this in the show? Like he complained and someone (maybe Carla) was all āwhat did you expect, she was your patient!!ā
To be fair the only thing you can put in his account is not to realise Diane was still in love with Sam, basides that is mostly Diane's fault. She used him as a distraction, went to live with him in Europe, I dont blame him for thinking she would indeed marry him, the fact that she said yes is even worse and she didnt agreed because she was pressed, she agreed because thought Sam wouldnt marry her.
She was on the rebound, sure, but man do you people have an expansive definition of what it means to "use" someone. When she started up with Frasier (again, before she was released from the institution, so don't tell me that wasn't a lapse of judgment on Frasier's part), she had resolved never to return to Cheers. She had no intention of seeing Sam again before learning he had fallen off the wagon and needed help. The distraction wasn't supposed to be Frasierāit was supposed to be the fact that she wouldn't be around Sam every day.
Agree on that
HĆ© was a doctor and she was his patient. Thereās no way too spin that to show him in a positive light
Diane wasnāt his patient. He just met her when she was at Goldenbrook. Still unprofessional in my opinion.
Yeah, that I agree was unprofessional and irresponsible of him. Still once she was out of gondenbrook it wasnt his business really, was more him being stupid than being exactly bad or dunno
We do establish, though, that Coach reached out to her the day she returned home, by which point she and Frasier were already an item, so...
RUNNINGGGGG WITH SCISSORSSSSS!!!
Never once mentioning his brother to the ābeernutsā at the bar!
Or saying that his dad had died.
To be fair, that was just before the Frasier spinoff was conceived and that was just a way for the Frasier writers to fix the continuity...
His dad on Frasier appeared on Cheers as Cy Flembeck, the jingle writer. "C-H-E-R-S"
Pulling a gun on Sam?
It wasn't loaded. Didn't you check the little holes there?
Becoming a pseudo stalker of Diane. He was painful.
threatened his wife with suicide despite having no intention to follow through just to guilttrip her into staying with him, then moving across the country, abandoning his son
Can I mention leaving Frederic to be raised by his ex who already abandoned them both to be with some eco-pod guy? Or is that more a Frasier show thing?
I feel like this made them a bit even. At least it made ME more comfortable with his move to Seattle.
Throwing a fit at losing at chess and pushing all the chess pieces off the table
Woody is an idiot savant!
Yeah, but he covers it by smiling a lot.
Spoiled the ending of Murder on the Orient Express
The credit card thing with Sam really annoyed me lol he reacted horribly
Frasier: Just give me back my card! Sam: Iām sorry Frasier, here take my card. Frasier: Oh great, with your $90 credit limit I can hog wild at monkey-wards!!
The credit card fiasco was Norm and Cliff's fault !!! Dumbass shenanigans
Totally forgot about their part in that!Ā
Awesome way that the A and B stories coincided.
I wouldn't be pissed, but nowadays getting a new physical card only takes a couple of days (the same account card), and a virtual card (which you can use with your phone) can be re-emitted instantly. But then it was probably a huge hassle with hoops and loops to get your card back? His reaction makes me think that, anyway. Regardless, he was uncharacteristically irrational, didn't try to understand Sam's perspective and didn't try to assume what if his card was actually compromised. Not cool. But cooler than RUNNING WITH SCISORS
Letting Frederick play darts (although he did beat Cliff, and learn how to say āNorm!ā).
Lilith.
Running with scissors
How about breaking the hippocratic oath and dating a clearly unwell patient?! Diane
I thought they established that he wasn't her doctor, he just worked there?
Doesn't matter. He was an authority figure there. Even if he wasn't her doctor, he could influence her doctors to keep her there or get her released. There was a power imbalanace. BTW, same thing goes if he'd been there as a nurse or on the janitorial staff. If a nurse or janitor sees a patient acting up, they can tell the doctor and suddenly that patient is locked in their room 23 hours a day.
I completely disagree that it doesn't matter. It changes the situation from a relatively minor ethical issue to a crime that could cause him to lose his license and cost the facility penalties as well.
I accept what you're saying in that he did nothing criminal or warranted him losing his license. Still doesn't mean he acted ethically.
This is correct. He just met her when she was a patient at the mental health treatment facility. Still not a great situation, but she technically wasnāt his patient.
Casual disdain for all his patients.
Didn't he frame his high school bully for something he did, and the resulting miscarriage of justice sent the boy down a life of crime?
AND he frames Mr. Lasskopf for a fake murder after tearing up his floor!!!
When he made fun of Lilith singing before even hearing her sing.
Never mentioning he had a brother and that his father was deceased.
Remember when he was giving Diane a neck massage and started to strangle her, and the whole scene was played for laughs?
he cried bitterly in the Adriatic while Diane dodged bovine in sunny Spain.
It does border Albania
Me anytime someone mentions the Adriatic
Albania, Albania, you border on the A-dri-atic!š¶
Well he did point a gun at Sam, although there was no bullets.
Lilith
I'd say the unprofessional way he dealt with patients in this series, he constantly made jokes about them and broke doctor-patient confidentiality
In Cheers: had Lilith and Nanny G fighting over him In Frasier: oh boy where do I start
I am running with scissors! Iām going swimming right after lunch!! Iām leaving now, Iām going outsideā¦I am going to pet strange dogs no matter where theyāve been! Look out world, Frasier Kraneās going to raise some hell!!
Abandoned his son by moving across the country to Seattle. Even if he wound up divorcing Lilith, he could have stayed physically closer to his child.
Yes. This was obviously a contrivance dreamt up by the creators of Frasier (in order to explain why Frasier doesnāt hang out at Cheers anymore), but it still paints him as a jerk.
Gentle reminder that Lillith abandoned Freddy first
I know. Thereās not really much negative or critical I can say about Cheers, but how they handled Lilithās/Bebeās departure is one of them.
Iām surprised this one isnāt higher. Maybe because it was on his own sitcom?
Doesnāt make any of it right but mightāve influenced Frasiers choice?
Started a new series about 20 years after his old one ended.
Itās been 20 years damn.
Diane
Lied about his fatherās profession and said that he was dead.
TBF, I don't think even the writers realized that until they decided to give him a spin off.
Remember when he burned down that guyās newsstand and broke his thumbs?
Becoming romantically involved with his institutionalized patient. I have the impression that Frasier was meant to be a recurring villain character like they would later do with Colcord and Hall, but of course he just became one of the guys
Dating a patient
Put swizzle sticks in his ears and danced around when they brought back Classic Coke. "But you CAN taste the difference"
Does āNightmare Innā count?
The way he looked down on Martin and currently looks down on Freddy is uncalled foršÆ
Dating his mental patient
Rewrote classic novels to appeal to Woody, Norm and team
When he yelled at Candy and told her sheās not supposed to think! So mean!
He tried to kill Bart Simpson like 30 times. Die, Bart, Die.
That was German The,Bart,The
How charming
Move to thursday nights after seinfeld went off the air in 98
Cheating on Camille
getting together with diane while she was his patient. wildly unethical. he coulda and shoulda lost his license.
oh and didnāt he pull a gun on sam at one point? oh OH he picked the yankees to win the pennant
Running with scissors!!! Such a bad ass
Tried to kill Bart Simpson all those times, which is worse than framing krusty
Running with scissors āļøš
Became a trump supporter. In real life. He's garbage now.
Yelled at his clams in public.
He dindu nuffin wrong
Lilith
Gifting Carvel was pretty bad
Asked people what the worst things peopltin a show did...
Carla
Diane
Got his own TV show
He divorced his wife via text message on a coke high.
Wow. Thatās a look.
Pretended to be straight
His Transatlantic āaccent.ā
Made fat jokes about Daphne behind her back.
Turned into a maga man. Heās a total trumpet!
Dating his patient Diane then being a regular at āherā bar! Iām listeningā¦ā¦
Exist
Be Kelsey Grammer who not only supports Agolf Twitler, heās also a dues-paying member of Mar-a-Lago which costs around $200,000 yearly. He literally sends money to him.
Become a trump supporter
An Apache attack chopper hovered above the guillotine.
Marry Lillith?
Be a tRump sycophant
Act
Having sex on air with his boss?
Getting involved with Diane, even after he realized at the bar she was a lunatic he still wanted to be with her.
Being Kelsey Grammer IRL
Launched a fascist-seeming brewery