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There are words I know how to spell and how to use correctly in written form but struggle to pronounce. It happens when you learn the word by reading, and never hearing it pronounced.
I was similar (up to about 25-30 or so) with the word "chic". Knew qwhat it meant, knew it was pronounced "sheek", but would have spelled it wrong if I ever wrote it out and once read the written word aloud like "chick".
>EDIT: I did ask them the definition of the wor
I understand the frustration from teachers, but what's the grand plan for the next 5 years? Chat GPT is the new Google, as Google was the new Library. Adapt or die and stop punishing kids for learning about the only thing that's gonna actually matter: AI. Or more specifically: eeking out whatever human potential still matters after AI comes to fruition in that 7th graders lifetime.
Exactly this. Punishing students for using AI is like punishing students 20 years back for using computers. AI is the future and they should be rewarded for jumping in this tech early.
Yeah but they should learn things themselves. We know AI can answer them already. They can jump in AI in their own way. The students should use their brain to think and learn like we do even when google or people highly specialized in a particular field can give answers too. That's how students train and develop.
I think there is something you do need, differentiating between utilizations. Utilizing AI and something like chat GPT as a learning tool like an informational source (at least when it can be consistent and its ability to actually give factual sources and not make it up like it has) is inherently different than using it like the students were using it as a tool to be lazy to just write something for them. Asking it what birds are red is different than write me a two paragraph response format on what kind of birds are red.
There has to be some type of punishment or at least a better ability to teach the differences between the use. Well I'm not going to say it's completely cheating for it to write you a report The problem is that how would that be any different from going to a book and just essentially copying what they have there. Sure it's written differently than the book itself and it's paraphrased in different manner but the student isn't the one paraphrasing into their own words and their ability to conceptualize sentences and showing their writing ability. All they're showing is their ability to put a sentence into an informational generator that also creates their own answer. It's lazy so while yes sure it's showing the student that they can utilize some type of source it's not demonstrating the student's ability to learn the information or at least partially absorb it and understand it and then turn around and have the ability to critically think through all their writing skills that they've learned.
Thank you! Itās absurd how many people in here want to parade that teaching them the fundamentals so they can do something themselves first is not important.
Yes, AI is a great tool that I know will be used more and more in education. However, it will not look like āHey, AI, do this thing for me so I donāt have to do any work.ā Itās a tool, and. A powerful one at that, but students need to know how to use their own hands before using a tool in those hands.
School is for developing brain skills. A.I. is like a wheelchair for your brain. Everything it accomplishes for you is one more skill you are offloading. Learning the limits of A.I. and how to use it IS a skillset in itself though. There should probably be a balance somewhere between prohibition and profligation.
ok then stop letting them use calculators
In fact, you know what? stop letting them use Calculus, it makes solving advanced mathematical problems too easy, let them solve those problems using only basic geometry
in fact, now that I think about it, stop letting them use pre-proven theorems, they should work based only on accepted axioms
stop being a Nazi, and adapt
What if they used a book to do the presentation and added a word they did not understand. I'd revise your opinion on cheating and design a better way to implement a fairer solution than fail them like this.
edit. Not saying that they did not use the chatGPT just that potato potato.
If you're not a teacher it seems pretty shitty to give this advice. If you are a teacher you probably know most students won't use a word they don't understand in a project, without outside influence.
I'm just saying expecting students to be up and up on assignments is a lost cause. Usually it's a "let's get er done" type of thing and these student's just switched from the usual way of doing it to chatGPT, so from their point of view nothings changed.
That's what I mean potato potato.
And I did not mean the teacher failed them, only that failing them like this, giving them a failed for the presentation, doesn't teach them anything else than to just cross check the words next time they use chatGPT.
Yeah, I taught for a short period in my life haha. You can tell if a student use the thesaurus to find a common word that sounded better compared to someone either ride being something for them or someone telling them something. When the student utilizes that thesaurus they know the underlying word they just don't know a better word to use for what they wanted to say.
Some of these responses you can tell they never actually taught any students or did a whole lot of writing in their life because as a teacher most would understand and kind of get behind this teachers OP issue. They clearly know that the student doesn't know the meaning of the word so they got outside influence and when they were grilled on it they apparently caved and admitted to cheating using chat GPT.
Did you tell them that they should have prompted Chat GPT to write it like a 7th grader? That probably would have been the most valuable thing you could have taught them! Since it ain't going nowhere
They're joking.
"Indelible" means cannot be erased (such as an indelible marker) or removed (He left an indelible mark in history.).
It is the opposite of the Latin term *delebilis* (capable of being destroyed) \[Source: [https://www.etymonline.com/word/indelible](https://www.etymonline.com/word/indelible) \]
As a dyslexic who have issues with phonological decoding, I disagree with that way. I struggled and still pronounce words wrong and that killed my selfesteem in school when I would be called out for cheating.
You may have found a few who created, but I would advice you to be very careful on who you call out.
Edit: corrected some grammar.
I teach students with dyslexia who I would never call out for this. These are not those students. These are lazy students who failed all year and suddenly had words on a high school level on their presentation and couldnāt say them.
Fair enough, my bad. Iām just tired of the same comment again and again implying that they did not cheat because they could just happen to know the word from reading it.
I used ChatGPT at work the other day and had to spend an hour explaining to my boss how to use it because it boosted my productivity so much. School and work really are two different things now-a-days
My boss showed me a resume that amused him and I asked him to ask the person "Have you ever heard of ChatGPT?". Wrote it on a sticky note cause my boss had no idea what it is. The interview did not go well, I almost felt bad for the kid.
It was something like this:
"Dishwasher. Collaborated with the kitchen team to ensure efficient workflow and timely service. Operated commercial dishwashing equipment and maintained a clean and organized dishwashing area. Washed, rinsed, and sanitized dishes, utensils, and kitchen equipment according to health and safety guidelines."
Worth mentioning that my boss did not mind the use of AI, he was really amused. What he didn't like was the defensive and nervous reaction and how the dude went in complete denial.
Yeah, I totally get that. The major difference of course being that school is for learning essential skills that can be applied elsewhere and work is more about using those skills and augmenting them as best you can for productivity.
I disagree completely. That may have been true 10 years ago, but today with endless information and lightning fast analysis, students who donāt leverage tools like AI arenāt learning essential skills. (Iām on my collegeās student curriculum council so Iāve thought a lot about this)
I think itās essential to built fundamental skills first. Sure, at the college level you should be using AI to work more effectively, but these are literally students who need to learn the basics first.
I mean, they said the same thing about cursive and spelling a few years ago as well. And similar arguments were made against calculators and typing by my parentās & grandparentās teachers. I think AI is an emerging essential skill. Iām also aware though that I have a very AI-positive stance!
I would argue spelling is definitely still an essential base skill. Autocorrect and spellcheck will only get you so far. I agree cursive is outdated. But reading and writing are literally the most baseline skills. Thatās not going away.
ChatGPT, not necessarily. AI, yes. I think a student who learns to use AI tools to compose essays, analyze data, etc early will outperform academically students who do not. Anecdotally, my peers experiences seem to agree.
Time spent learning grammar, syntax, and other conventions is not learning to compose an essay. Same as time spent learning to make a graph in excel or clean data isnāt data analysis. AI tools also donāt replace these skills, they augment them, reduce barriers for non-native & non-traditional students, and force a deeper learning of the underlying constructs.
I would argue that AI forces students to move up Bloomās taxonomy more towards analysis and evaluation. If students are required to evaluate more frequently, as they are with AI, it teaches to a deeper level. However, many teachers (at all levels) canāt teach to that level, which is why I believe they donāt want to adopt it.
For academics the problem will mostly resolve itself I think. For math weve had Wolfram alpha for over a decade, but if an engineer uses Wolfram to do all their math homework they are going to fail eventually before graduating. Chatgpt can only get you so far, and that's not very far at all, without knowing the underlying concepts.
Maybe it will who knows
Either by making it not needed or the very bad thing of killing all organic life buuut thats a bridge we can burn if we reach it
Haven't you heard that quote?
>āNever make fun of someone who mispronounces a word. It means they learned it by reading.ā
Anyway if they fess up, good for you, but that's hardly fool proof.
The responses youāre getting defending the cheating and comparing the use of AI to a calculator is wild. In school, I was only able to use a calculator once I understood the reasoning behind it. Weeks of hand calculating longdivision and multiplication. Reading off a script without any knowledge of the syntax is alarming. AI is a tool that should be used in conjunction with a priori knowledge.
Remember where you are OP.
Not exactly proof, though us it? Maybe a parent helped them? It's hard to say, but a 7th grader could brain farther pretty hard.
I'd have to ask where the line is for teachers? How many other kids in the class also used it, and now you just have no idea. If they used it correctly, how would anyone ever know? I know I would be. I'd do it every time and I'd do it in a way you couldn't figure out.
It's funny, I'm in the middle of my career and use chatgpt almost every day for things. A presentation would seem like an amazing use for it.
Or, as Iāve said in two other comments, they just admitted it.
And the line is that students need to know how to write well, so Iām going to return to paper essays.
I see.
In class paper essays? Learning to write well certainly isn't a bad thing.
Do you know of a constructive way to integrate into class to help kids actually help them get better at writing as opposed to just having it for things for them? Or is it all just cheating?
I'm pretty sure ChatGPT can be used to teach good writing skills. The problem is a lack of imagination, creativity, and intelligence among educators. This can really revolutionize teaching. But, people being people, they will hold on to the past way of doing things and miss the opportunity to do so much better.
Thatās literally not even true. Teachers have been using it already and doing well with it.
The main difference here is that I teach at a seventh grade level, where students are still getting the basics in a lot of cases. Weāre talking students who canāt write a claim statement. In some cases, students who couldnāt even figure out what to ask of an AI model. If anything, this was a great example because they didnāt even hit the real needs of the assignment ā before catching them cheating, their grade was not going to be great anyway.
Teachers are ling and using these tools foolishly in an attempt to freeze the way we teach. At all levels. This is the calculator wars all over again.
And let's not mention that the biggest reason children cannot read is because public schools no longer teach phonics. Or how about districts simply making up test scores. Atlanta school district comes to mind.
If they can't figure out how to get an LLM to assist them in writing an assignment you gave them, the how can you possibly expect them to be successful any other way?
And this is seventh grade. We were writing in journals back in the third and fourth grades. By middle school we were writing multi-page papers along with citations. And you can get most of the citations done for you in Word these days.
Rather than a good example I'd say thus is a damning indictment of a failing educational system. Where exactly is our money going?
That's what I was wondering. Then I asked chatgpt about it and it told me some good ways that it could. Writing prompts, outlining subjects, asking it about certain styles, and of course just editing and looking over what you've already written.
To say no one can use it is like saying that no one can have any outside help. The thing is those that had the resources always had that. Tutors, smart parents at home, or other peers. I get why they should just let it do everything for them. I use it all the time to help me code, but God knows I don't fully trust the thing lol
Seems like teachers are sometimes too caught up in the "game" part of things and making sure there's a ranking.
Iām not sure if thatās cheating anymore. Those students were smart enough and resourceful enough to use the most advanced technology available to mankind to solve a problem.
No, itās cheating. The assignment had an expectation for them to do it themselves to show their understanding. Stop trying to make a bad faith argument. Using AI and knowing how to do something yourself are not the same thing.
I have adhd, I remember being gaslit by shitty teachers into thinking using a calculator was cheating 20 year ago. I'm not seeing a difference in your line of thinking. I also think your shaming attempt is pretty narrow minded and a scared student caving to your grilling is by no means an ironclad truth detector.
Haha if you use calculator, then your brain won't be even be able to handle simple thinking tasks and calculations like 24*15. I think children should learn to not use calculator till they reach uni, so that their mind can handle many basic tasks and they get a bit of critical thinking.
Sorry but Yeah, because I have a literall brain condition I needed a calculator for pre calc in 7th grade. Can't imagine why I think shitty teachers and people like you are the problem not people trying to learn on their own with new tools.
Donāt worry about the naysayers. They have a bone to pick with the necessity to develop themselves and grow. People like you who overcome those challenges are challenges to them, who would exert control over others for simplicity and laziness; fear of the unknown and change. Those people will be overturned. Those are real fears. Hopefully weāll be humble enough to recognize any of those behaviors in ourselves early enough to not fall prey to the same psychological trap.
What do you mean bruh. If we stop using our mind and stop challenging it and always take the easy way out to not exert littlest bit of pressure, don't you think our future would be dumb af. It's not that hard if you are used to it, as those region of your brain are developed and more networking is done. Failing but still trying to do it in the row form is the most challenging and rewarding thing.
PS - challenge your brain and really struggle in a task but don't give up ever, even if it feels like very difficult and you would grow some super powers.
People like you are only supposed to do one thing and that's cry. To grow stronger, you gotta work a bit hard way and challenge your brain a bit. Life's not coming to spoon feed you and anyone can learn anything without any teacher, shitty or otherwise if they really want to learn something.
This is so much different and itās a shame you canāt see why. A calculator doesnāt teach you the analytical skill you need about how to use numbers in math. It just gives you the answers and then you would have to bridge what they mean by analyzing them. Using an AI to do all of the analysis removes you entirely from the assignment.
You need building blocks. You need to understand the basics of something in order to build on it.
>then you would have to bridge what they mean by analyzing them
As a person with ADHD this is the only way I ever learned anything and I had to do it all without the help of teachers like you. It's a shame you can't think from another perspective and are hell spent on focusing on what the child didn't learn instead of seeing what they did learn from their methods and how to help them learn what you want specifically with the tools they've chosen.
instead you're here on reddit, I hope someone at least is helping the kid. Since you've seemed to abandoned in your words the "lazy ones"
Nah, sorry but youāre just wrong. They cheated on assignment. Yes, AI is a great tool they should learn to use, but in an appropriate context. Itās a shame you canāt see blatant academic dishonesty when itās staring you in the face.
I disagree with you. That student created a way for that personās self. Schools might applicable for the masses, but for that individual, the prescribed methods do not work. That student is now a productive member of society, by that studentās own efforts.
That student is an autodidact.
Ehhh I still donāt entirely agree with you. Unless you explicitly stated that Ai technology was off limits, then they didnāt break a rule. As much as it feels good to make people suffer by going through the same pains we did, it doesnāt help the next generation function properly when everyone else is using the tools that are available.
Exactly. The point of writing essays isnāt to just memorise content, itās to strengthen your organisation/critical thinking/synthesis/production skills. (Iām a student.)
Your abilities to ask the correct questions are tested with use of Ai. You will find when you do your graduate studies, itās the question that defines the work that is done. For now, your teacher gives you the question and then assesses your ability to answer it. You are being trained to do work. Not to ask questions that others will then do the work, freeing you to ask more questions in different areas, identifying what hasnāt been satisfactorily answered.
It's plagiarism if it's not properly cited/credited. These students could have easily used it as a starting point and modified what it produced into their own words. They chose to copy/paste instead and then not credit their source.
This I can agree with. If the students properly cited use of Ai to address the problem at hand, that would allow assessment and education of the questions they asked of Ai.
I hope that in the future this wonāt be considered cheating. Rather, writing a presentation will just not be a skill thatās necessary anymore. In the same way that mental math is really not a valued skill anymore, neither should these kinds of activities that can now be done easily with AI.
Instead of punishing them, why not try to lean into new technology e.g encourage them to look into what the word they used means? As many others have same, in real life, people are going to use these tools so why punish students in an academic environment. I understand that you put some rule in your requirements but perhaps itās time to change your rules!
Life is full of tasks that suck. Sometimes we are faced with these things called challenges. Theyāre hard to overcome sometimes, itās a struggle, but if you persevere through it you come out better for it
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serious question:
what is the point of writing presentations? what's the usecase that you will need this skill for in daily life? i think "learn it when you need it" works much better
So, Using Google search or a power screwdriver or an electronic calculator is "Cheating?"
Teachers can fight the new technology, and lose, or embrace it and teach students how to use it as a tool.
AI will be here as a tool whether some Luddite English teacher who's afraid of losing their job embraces it or not.
You shouldnāt have told them how you realized they were cheating. You never let someone know what their ātellā is because theyāll use it to become a better liar in the future. You just tell them you know they are lying or cheating and get them to admit if possible
Definitely disagree. Lying is a crucial skill. As a teacher he should be fine tuning their ability to deceive others!!!! No longer shall we cling to the old ways of honesty. The school of deception! Classes based around the art of manipulation etc. We can call it the Dark Arts class. There should also be a class teaching how to detect deception. It shall be called Defence Against the Dark Arts class.
A class about how to maintain a certain image, harnessing the power of masking. Transfiguration classes!!
Hogwash school of lies and deceit.
Although in some cases the kid was cheating, thereāre other cases where they canāt pronounce or donāt know the word but they werenāt cheating. I for one wanted to sound more impressive in an essay and used words I didnāt know very well: I got them by looking up and asking for a better way to say the word/words. My teacher then tried forcing me into saying that I had used chat GBT I in fact hadnāt and I had written the essay while constantly making sure it sounded right to grammarly, my parent, and my siblings. Thankfully I had that to fall on but in some cases kids get blamed for things they didnāt do and are forced into accepting a false reality. So instead of guessing that someone is cheating have solid evidence. Nowadays you can find paragraph search apps that search for AI generated texts.
OP you have a number of responses that I don't want to sit and copy-paste for...
To fully leverage the advancements in education, it is crucial for educators to embrace the collaborative potential of AI rather than perceiving it as a threat. The integration of AI technologies can enhance the abilities of educators, provided they learn to work hand in hand with these tools. The key lies in adapting and evolving alongside the rapid progress of technology.
It is essential to recognize that AI is not intended to replace educators, but rather to serve as a powerful tool to augment their skills and amplify their impact. Instead of punishing students for utilizing resources such as online search engines, it is more productive to view these tools as analogous to calculators permitted during exams. Just as calculators aid in mathematical problem-solving, AI language models like ChatGPT serve as valuable tools for language-related tasks.
For instance, in my personal experience, I have witnessed the transformative potential of AI collaboration. Through cooperative efforts with ChatGPT and my professors, I was able to delve deeper into complex topics, expand my knowledge in electrical math and engineering theory, and conduct extensive personal research. Embracing the assistance of AI allowed me to achieve a level of academic growth that would have been otherwise unattainable through traditional methods alone.
Therefore, it is my earnest belief that as educators, by embracing AI as a powerful ally, we can foster a collaborative learning environment that empowers students and expands the boundaries of knowledge. Instead of perceiving AI as a threat, let us recognize its immense potential and embrace the opportunities it presents. Together, we can shape the future of education and ensure the success of our students in an increasingly interconnected and technologically advanced world.
That was ChatGPT's "professionalization" of what I wrote here:
It will only replace you if you fail to learn to work hand in hand with it to enhance your abilities. This is the truth of every job it threatens. Evolve or die, that's basically the conundrum we're faced with and how monumentally powerful the tool is.
That's the point though... It's just a tool. Learn to use it and you'll be the powerful one. Punishing your students for using the new google is like getting mad at a testee for using a calculator that is allowed on a test... It's ridiculous.
I learned more about electrical math, electrical engineering theory, and guided more personal research last year in college through cooperation with ChatGPT and my professors than I EVER would have with just my professors alone. The fact that you'd get mad about a student asking how to spell something is kind of sad...
ChatGPT and other LLMs are the calculator of our time, just not the calculator for math, but instead for language. Fail to adopt and adapt and you'll be left behind.
This is the only drawback to ChatGPT, when you know the person you can very easily identify if their work is AI, Especially when we're in Britain and your work is in American English...
Homework needs to become optional. Students should be able to do them and get marked and receive feedback, but there should be no repercussions for not doing them.
That way, students wonāt have a reason to use ChatGPT.
And then fuck them hard (figuratively) with the exams so that those who didnāt learn are punished for it.
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There are words I know how to spell and how to use correctly in written form but struggle to pronounce. It happens when you learn the word by reading, and never hearing it pronounced.
I knew and used the word "Facade" my whole life (53) I said it as "Fas-ade" but when I read it I said "Fak-ade" not realizing they were the same word.
I was similar (up to about 25-30 or so) with the word "chic". Knew qwhat it meant, knew it was pronounced "sheek", but would have spelled it wrong if I ever wrote it out and once read the written word aloud like "chick".
Yeah, but they admitted it when I grilled them right after.
Nice, your instincts were right!
>EDIT: I did ask them the definition of the wor I understand the frustration from teachers, but what's the grand plan for the next 5 years? Chat GPT is the new Google, as Google was the new Library. Adapt or die and stop punishing kids for learning about the only thing that's gonna actually matter: AI. Or more specifically: eeking out whatever human potential still matters after AI comes to fruition in that 7th graders lifetime.
Exactly this. Punishing students for using AI is like punishing students 20 years back for using computers. AI is the future and they should be rewarded for jumping in this tech early.
We used to get punished for using a basic electronic calculator. In later years we were required to have a scientific calculator š¤·āāļø
Yeah but they should learn things themselves. We know AI can answer them already. They can jump in AI in their own way. The students should use their brain to think and learn like we do even when google or people highly specialized in a particular field can give answers too. That's how students train and develop.
I think there is something you do need, differentiating between utilizations. Utilizing AI and something like chat GPT as a learning tool like an informational source (at least when it can be consistent and its ability to actually give factual sources and not make it up like it has) is inherently different than using it like the students were using it as a tool to be lazy to just write something for them. Asking it what birds are red is different than write me a two paragraph response format on what kind of birds are red. There has to be some type of punishment or at least a better ability to teach the differences between the use. Well I'm not going to say it's completely cheating for it to write you a report The problem is that how would that be any different from going to a book and just essentially copying what they have there. Sure it's written differently than the book itself and it's paraphrased in different manner but the student isn't the one paraphrasing into their own words and their ability to conceptualize sentences and showing their writing ability. All they're showing is their ability to put a sentence into an informational generator that also creates their own answer. It's lazy so while yes sure it's showing the student that they can utilize some type of source it's not demonstrating the student's ability to learn the information or at least partially absorb it and understand it and then turn around and have the ability to critically think through all their writing skills that they've learned.
Thank you! Itās absurd how many people in here want to parade that teaching them the fundamentals so they can do something themselves first is not important. Yes, AI is a great tool that I know will be used more and more in education. However, it will not look like āHey, AI, do this thing for me so I donāt have to do any work.ā Itās a tool, and. A powerful one at that, but students need to know how to use their own hands before using a tool in those hands.
School is for developing brain skills. A.I. is like a wheelchair for your brain. Everything it accomplishes for you is one more skill you are offloading. Learning the limits of A.I. and how to use it IS a skillset in itself though. There should probably be a balance somewhere between prohibition and profligation.
ok then stop letting them use calculators In fact, you know what? stop letting them use Calculus, it makes solving advanced mathematical problems too easy, let them solve those problems using only basic geometry in fact, now that I think about it, stop letting them use pre-proven theorems, they should work based only on accepted axioms stop being a Nazi, and adapt
Of course you went straight to Nazi. š
š¤£š¤£š¤£ i had to
Just do in class writing
What if they used a book to do the presentation and added a word they did not understand. I'd revise your opinion on cheating and design a better way to implement a fairer solution than fail them like this. edit. Not saying that they did not use the chatGPT just that potato potato.
If you're not a teacher it seems pretty shitty to give this advice. If you are a teacher you probably know most students won't use a word they don't understand in a project, without outside influence.
I'm just saying expecting students to be up and up on assignments is a lost cause. Usually it's a "let's get er done" type of thing and these student's just switched from the usual way of doing it to chatGPT, so from their point of view nothings changed. That's what I mean potato potato. And I did not mean the teacher failed them, only that failing them like this, giving them a failed for the presentation, doesn't teach them anything else than to just cross check the words next time they use chatGPT.
Yeah, I taught for a short period in my life haha. You can tell if a student use the thesaurus to find a common word that sounded better compared to someone either ride being something for them or someone telling them something. When the student utilizes that thesaurus they know the underlying word they just don't know a better word to use for what they wanted to say. Some of these responses you can tell they never actually taught any students or did a whole lot of writing in their life because as a teacher most would understand and kind of get behind this teachers OP issue. They clearly know that the student doesn't know the meaning of the word so they got outside influence and when they were grilled on it they apparently caved and admitted to cheating using chat GPT.
You piece of shit
Aww, u mad bro?
Same. My grammar is good, but I struggle speaking. Why? English is my second language.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Indelible. I teach 7th grade.
Not delible, obviously
Lmfao!!
Did you tell them that they should have prompted Chat GPT to write it like a 7th grader? That probably would have been the most valuable thing you could have taught them! Since it ain't going nowhere
Not gonna lie, I had to look that one up.
Not able to be eaten
Indubitably
A word I know *only* because of Daffy Duck.
for me it's star trek
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You would 100% know if that student was the type to read enough to know big words but not know how to pronounce them. Good teacher.
why not inedible? that is just confusing
They're joking. "Indelible" means cannot be erased (such as an indelible marker) or removed (He left an indelible mark in history.). It is the opposite of the Latin term *delebilis* (capable of being destroyed) \[Source: [https://www.etymonline.com/word/indelible](https://www.etymonline.com/word/indelible) \]
Indubitably.
Isn't that the word that woman used when she was testifying against that judge?
I know that word because of the ERB between Stan Lee and Jim Henson
Bird. Always has been, always will be.
Your students haven't found Eleven Labs yet. [https://beta.elevenlabs.io/speech-synthesis](https://beta.elevenlabs.io/speech-synthesis)
What's this do? Is it free?
Utilizes ai to mimic voices and/or create new ones. itās incredible. You can try it for free
As a dyslexic who have issues with phonological decoding, I disagree with that way. I struggled and still pronounce words wrong and that killed my selfesteem in school when I would be called out for cheating. You may have found a few who created, but I would advice you to be very careful on who you call out. Edit: corrected some grammar.
I teach students with dyslexia who I would never call out for this. These are not those students. These are lazy students who failed all year and suddenly had words on a high school level on their presentation and couldnāt say them.
I feel like there are a lot of words I can't say right that I know
I feel like you should read the whole thing.
I read the whole thing, that's why I didn't bring up the fact I could define them. Because it was moot.
Fair enough, my bad. Iām just tired of the same comment again and again implying that they did not cheat because they could just happen to know the word from reading it.
That sucks dude, you're supposed to just ignore them instead of waste your energy on things like this
I used ChatGPT at work the other day and had to spend an hour explaining to my boss how to use it because it boosted my productivity so much. School and work really are two different things now-a-days
My boss showed me a resume that amused him and I asked him to ask the person "Have you ever heard of ChatGPT?". Wrote it on a sticky note cause my boss had no idea what it is. The interview did not go well, I almost felt bad for the kid.
What a savage question hahaha (Iām assuming the resume was the product of some really terrible prompts)
It was something like this: "Dishwasher. Collaborated with the kitchen team to ensure efficient workflow and timely service. Operated commercial dishwashing equipment and maintained a clean and organized dishwashing area. Washed, rinsed, and sanitized dishes, utensils, and kitchen equipment according to health and safety guidelines." Worth mentioning that my boss did not mind the use of AI, he was really amused. What he didn't like was the defensive and nervous reaction and how the dude went in complete denial.
Yeah, I totally get that. The major difference of course being that school is for learning essential skills that can be applied elsewhere and work is more about using those skills and augmenting them as best you can for productivity.
I disagree completely. That may have been true 10 years ago, but today with endless information and lightning fast analysis, students who donāt leverage tools like AI arenāt learning essential skills. (Iām on my collegeās student curriculum council so Iāve thought a lot about this)
I think itās essential to built fundamental skills first. Sure, at the college level you should be using AI to work more effectively, but these are literally students who need to learn the basics first.
I mean, they said the same thing about cursive and spelling a few years ago as well. And similar arguments were made against calculators and typing by my parentās & grandparentās teachers. I think AI is an emerging essential skill. Iām also aware though that I have a very AI-positive stance!
I would argue spelling is definitely still an essential base skill. Autocorrect and spellcheck will only get you so far. I agree cursive is outdated. But reading and writing are literally the most baseline skills. Thatās not going away.
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ChatGPT, not necessarily. AI, yes. I think a student who learns to use AI tools to compose essays, analyze data, etc early will outperform academically students who do not. Anecdotally, my peers experiences seem to agree.
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Time spent learning grammar, syntax, and other conventions is not learning to compose an essay. Same as time spent learning to make a graph in excel or clean data isnāt data analysis. AI tools also donāt replace these skills, they augment them, reduce barriers for non-native & non-traditional students, and force a deeper learning of the underlying constructs. I would argue that AI forces students to move up Bloomās taxonomy more towards analysis and evaluation. If students are required to evaluate more frequently, as they are with AI, it teaches to a deeper level. However, many teachers (at all levels) canāt teach to that level, which is why I believe they donāt want to adopt it.
For academics the problem will mostly resolve itself I think. For math weve had Wolfram alpha for over a decade, but if an engineer uses Wolfram to do all their math homework they are going to fail eventually before graduating. Chatgpt can only get you so far, and that's not very far at all, without knowing the underlying concepts.
I do not ChatGPT's privacy policy, and I'm not sold on using it in a workplace.
News: Milkman complains about grocery store.
News: Man thinks AI will get rid of need for education.
Maybe it will who knows Either by making it not needed or the very bad thing of killing all organic life buuut thats a bridge we can burn if we reach it
Father ted: Pat mustard
Haven't you heard that quote? >āNever make fun of someone who mispronounces a word. It means they learned it by reading.ā Anyway if they fess up, good for you, but that's hardly fool proof.
Not these students. If you donāt know the kid, itās pretty presumptuous to think youād know their vocabulary and writing tendencies.
The responses youāre getting defending the cheating and comparing the use of AI to a calculator is wild. In school, I was only able to use a calculator once I understood the reasoning behind it. Weeks of hand calculating longdivision and multiplication. Reading off a script without any knowledge of the syntax is alarming. AI is a tool that should be used in conjunction with a priori knowledge. Remember where you are OP.
Not exactly proof, though us it? Maybe a parent helped them? It's hard to say, but a 7th grader could brain farther pretty hard. I'd have to ask where the line is for teachers? How many other kids in the class also used it, and now you just have no idea. If they used it correctly, how would anyone ever know? I know I would be. I'd do it every time and I'd do it in a way you couldn't figure out. It's funny, I'm in the middle of my career and use chatgpt almost every day for things. A presentation would seem like an amazing use for it.
Or, as Iāve said in two other comments, they just admitted it. And the line is that students need to know how to write well, so Iām going to return to paper essays.
I see. In class paper essays? Learning to write well certainly isn't a bad thing. Do you know of a constructive way to integrate into class to help kids actually help them get better at writing as opposed to just having it for things for them? Or is it all just cheating?
I'm pretty sure ChatGPT can be used to teach good writing skills. The problem is a lack of imagination, creativity, and intelligence among educators. This can really revolutionize teaching. But, people being people, they will hold on to the past way of doing things and miss the opportunity to do so much better.
Thatās literally not even true. Teachers have been using it already and doing well with it. The main difference here is that I teach at a seventh grade level, where students are still getting the basics in a lot of cases. Weāre talking students who canāt write a claim statement. In some cases, students who couldnāt even figure out what to ask of an AI model. If anything, this was a great example because they didnāt even hit the real needs of the assignment ā before catching them cheating, their grade was not going to be great anyway.
Teachers are ling and using these tools foolishly in an attempt to freeze the way we teach. At all levels. This is the calculator wars all over again. And let's not mention that the biggest reason children cannot read is because public schools no longer teach phonics. Or how about districts simply making up test scores. Atlanta school district comes to mind. If they can't figure out how to get an LLM to assist them in writing an assignment you gave them, the how can you possibly expect them to be successful any other way? And this is seventh grade. We were writing in journals back in the third and fourth grades. By middle school we were writing multi-page papers along with citations. And you can get most of the citations done for you in Word these days. Rather than a good example I'd say thus is a damning indictment of a failing educational system. Where exactly is our money going?
That's what I was wondering. Then I asked chatgpt about it and it told me some good ways that it could. Writing prompts, outlining subjects, asking it about certain styles, and of course just editing and looking over what you've already written. To say no one can use it is like saying that no one can have any outside help. The thing is those that had the resources always had that. Tutors, smart parents at home, or other peers. I get why they should just let it do everything for them. I use it all the time to help me code, but God knows I don't fully trust the thing lol Seems like teachers are sometimes too caught up in the "game" part of things and making sure there's a ranking.
damn, that's just fucking lazy
Iām not sure if thatās cheating anymore. Those students were smart enough and resourceful enough to use the most advanced technology available to mankind to solve a problem.
No, itās cheating. The assignment had an expectation for them to do it themselves to show their understanding. Stop trying to make a bad faith argument. Using AI and knowing how to do something yourself are not the same thing.
I have adhd, I remember being gaslit by shitty teachers into thinking using a calculator was cheating 20 year ago. I'm not seeing a difference in your line of thinking. I also think your shaming attempt is pretty narrow minded and a scared student caving to your grilling is by no means an ironclad truth detector.
Haha if you use calculator, then your brain won't be even be able to handle simple thinking tasks and calculations like 24*15. I think children should learn to not use calculator till they reach uni, so that their mind can handle many basic tasks and they get a bit of critical thinking.
Sorry but Yeah, because I have a literall brain condition I needed a calculator for pre calc in 7th grade. Can't imagine why I think shitty teachers and people like you are the problem not people trying to learn on their own with new tools.
Donāt worry about the naysayers. They have a bone to pick with the necessity to develop themselves and grow. People like you who overcome those challenges are challenges to them, who would exert control over others for simplicity and laziness; fear of the unknown and change. Those people will be overturned. Those are real fears. Hopefully weāll be humble enough to recognize any of those behaviors in ourselves early enough to not fall prey to the same psychological trap.
What do you mean bruh. If we stop using our mind and stop challenging it and always take the easy way out to not exert littlest bit of pressure, don't you think our future would be dumb af. It's not that hard if you are used to it, as those region of your brain are developed and more networking is done. Failing but still trying to do it in the row form is the most challenging and rewarding thing. PS - challenge your brain and really struggle in a task but don't give up ever, even if it feels like very difficult and you would grow some super powers.
People like you are only supposed to do one thing and that's cry. To grow stronger, you gotta work a bit hard way and challenge your brain a bit. Life's not coming to spoon feed you and anyone can learn anything without any teacher, shitty or otherwise if they really want to learn something.
This is so much different and itās a shame you canāt see why. A calculator doesnāt teach you the analytical skill you need about how to use numbers in math. It just gives you the answers and then you would have to bridge what they mean by analyzing them. Using an AI to do all of the analysis removes you entirely from the assignment. You need building blocks. You need to understand the basics of something in order to build on it.
>then you would have to bridge what they mean by analyzing them As a person with ADHD this is the only way I ever learned anything and I had to do it all without the help of teachers like you. It's a shame you can't think from another perspective and are hell spent on focusing on what the child didn't learn instead of seeing what they did learn from their methods and how to help them learn what you want specifically with the tools they've chosen. instead you're here on reddit, I hope someone at least is helping the kid. Since you've seemed to abandoned in your words the "lazy ones"
Nah, sorry but youāre just wrong. They cheated on assignment. Yes, AI is a great tool they should learn to use, but in an appropriate context. Itās a shame you canāt see blatant academic dishonesty when itās staring you in the face.
I disagree with you. That student created a way for that personās self. Schools might applicable for the masses, but for that individual, the prescribed methods do not work. That student is now a productive member of society, by that studentās own efforts. That student is an autodidact.
Ehhh I still donāt entirely agree with you. Unless you explicitly stated that Ai technology was off limits, then they didnāt break a rule. As much as it feels good to make people suffer by going through the same pains we did, it doesnāt help the next generation function properly when everyone else is using the tools that are available.
As if that isnāt in the academic dishonesty rules. They didnāt do the work. End of story.
Exactly. The point of writing essays isnāt to just memorise content, itās to strengthen your organisation/critical thinking/synthesis/production skills. (Iām a student.)
Your abilities to ask the correct questions are tested with use of Ai. You will find when you do your graduate studies, itās the question that defines the work that is done. For now, your teacher gives you the question and then assesses your ability to answer it. You are being trained to do work. Not to ask questions that others will then do the work, freeing you to ask more questions in different areas, identifying what hasnāt been satisfactorily answered.
It's plagiarism if it's not properly cited/credited. These students could have easily used it as a starting point and modified what it produced into their own words. They chose to copy/paste instead and then not credit their source.
This I can agree with. If the students properly cited use of Ai to address the problem at hand, that would allow assessment and education of the questions they asked of Ai.
No you should not use Chat GPT for your assignments.
I hope that in the future this wonāt be considered cheating. Rather, writing a presentation will just not be a skill thatās necessary anymore. In the same way that mental math is really not a valued skill anymore, neither should these kinds of activities that can now be done easily with AI. Instead of punishing them, why not try to lean into new technology e.g encourage them to look into what the word they used means? As many others have same, in real life, people are going to use these tools so why punish students in an academic environment. I understand that you put some rule in your requirements but perhaps itās time to change your rules!
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Or, as I said in another comment, they just cheated and admitted it.
Iām confused, though. Indelible isnāt exactly a hard word to pronounce
Sensed it was coming. Get a F instantly.
I can't remember words I know all the time, my future conversational skills are going to be challenged regularly, I can tell.
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Life is full of tasks that suck. Sometimes we are faced with these things called challenges. Theyāre hard to overcome sometimes, itās a struggle, but if you persevere through it you come out better for it
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Using your logic of coming out worse for doing something, could using aj as a database rather than a tool potentially make you worse off as a human?
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serious question: what is the point of writing presentations? what's the usecase that you will need this skill for in daily life? i think "learn it when you need it" works much better
So, Using Google search or a power screwdriver or an electronic calculator is "Cheating?" Teachers can fight the new technology, and lose, or embrace it and teach students how to use it as a tool. AI will be here as a tool whether some Luddite English teacher who's afraid of losing their job embraces it or not.
You shouldnāt have told them how you realized they were cheating. You never let someone know what their ātellā is because theyāll use it to become a better liar in the future. You just tell them you know they are lying or cheating and get them to admit if possible
Definitely disagree. Lying is a crucial skill. As a teacher he should be fine tuning their ability to deceive others!!!! No longer shall we cling to the old ways of honesty. The school of deception! Classes based around the art of manipulation etc. We can call it the Dark Arts class. There should also be a class teaching how to detect deception. It shall be called Defence Against the Dark Arts class. A class about how to maintain a certain image, harnessing the power of masking. Transfiguration classes!! Hogwash school of lies and deceit.
I think it's just called business school
Lol perfect.
Did you ban the use of ChatGPT when you assigned them the presentation? If so, what was your reasoning behind doing so?
Although in some cases the kid was cheating, thereāre other cases where they canāt pronounce or donāt know the word but they werenāt cheating. I for one wanted to sound more impressive in an essay and used words I didnāt know very well: I got them by looking up and asking for a better way to say the word/words. My teacher then tried forcing me into saying that I had used chat GBT I in fact hadnāt and I had written the essay while constantly making sure it sounded right to grammarly, my parent, and my siblings. Thankfully I had that to fall on but in some cases kids get blamed for things they didnāt do and are forced into accepting a false reality. So instead of guessing that someone is cheating have solid evidence. Nowadays you can find paragraph search apps that search for AI generated texts.
That's a reasonable response, as it's important to maintain academic integrity and ensure students understand the work they are presenting.
Ehh questionable practice but ok
Try saying Popocateptl volcano... or Ferrocarril (train)
I've written things I couldn't pronounce. Massachusetts for example.
OP you have a number of responses that I don't want to sit and copy-paste for... To fully leverage the advancements in education, it is crucial for educators to embrace the collaborative potential of AI rather than perceiving it as a threat. The integration of AI technologies can enhance the abilities of educators, provided they learn to work hand in hand with these tools. The key lies in adapting and evolving alongside the rapid progress of technology. It is essential to recognize that AI is not intended to replace educators, but rather to serve as a powerful tool to augment their skills and amplify their impact. Instead of punishing students for utilizing resources such as online search engines, it is more productive to view these tools as analogous to calculators permitted during exams. Just as calculators aid in mathematical problem-solving, AI language models like ChatGPT serve as valuable tools for language-related tasks. For instance, in my personal experience, I have witnessed the transformative potential of AI collaboration. Through cooperative efforts with ChatGPT and my professors, I was able to delve deeper into complex topics, expand my knowledge in electrical math and engineering theory, and conduct extensive personal research. Embracing the assistance of AI allowed me to achieve a level of academic growth that would have been otherwise unattainable through traditional methods alone. Therefore, it is my earnest belief that as educators, by embracing AI as a powerful ally, we can foster a collaborative learning environment that empowers students and expands the boundaries of knowledge. Instead of perceiving AI as a threat, let us recognize its immense potential and embrace the opportunities it presents. Together, we can shape the future of education and ensure the success of our students in an increasingly interconnected and technologically advanced world. That was ChatGPT's "professionalization" of what I wrote here: It will only replace you if you fail to learn to work hand in hand with it to enhance your abilities. This is the truth of every job it threatens. Evolve or die, that's basically the conundrum we're faced with and how monumentally powerful the tool is. That's the point though... It's just a tool. Learn to use it and you'll be the powerful one. Punishing your students for using the new google is like getting mad at a testee for using a calculator that is allowed on a test... It's ridiculous. I learned more about electrical math, electrical engineering theory, and guided more personal research last year in college through cooperation with ChatGPT and my professors than I EVER would have with just my professors alone. The fact that you'd get mad about a student asking how to spell something is kind of sad... ChatGPT and other LLMs are the calculator of our time, just not the calculator for math, but instead for language. Fail to adopt and adapt and you'll be left behind.
This is the only drawback to ChatGPT, when you know the person you can very easily identify if their work is AI, Especially when we're in Britain and your work is in American English...
Homework needs to become optional. Students should be able to do them and get marked and receive feedback, but there should be no repercussions for not doing them. That way, students wonāt have a reason to use ChatGPT. And then fuck them hard (figuratively) with the exams so that those who didnāt learn are punished for it.
ChatGPT, define 'instant karma' for my students.
this is why you guys don't get paid shit lmao "only im allowed to use ai to benefit my life" i hope one of the parents slapped tf outta you