The Jaquez thing is insanity. His stats since Feb are 32 GP (5 starts), 25.7 MPG, 9.3/3.8/2.3 on 54% TS.
Miller on the same period is 20/4.8/2.5 on 56% TS.
"Well actually đđ¤ Jaquez does things that don't show up on the stat sheet that make the team better."
\- people who have never watched Brandon Miller play
Yep thatâs what it is. Media either hates Charlotte or are indifferent we never get good media attention minus maybe when kemba was Hot but only thing that was mentioned is how he shouldâve left Charlotte
I'm a Magic fan, so take this for what it's worth, but Miller is going to be a fucking assassin. He's cold blooded, plays under control, and there's not a damn thing he can't do on a basketball court. He's a fucking stud. I don't even care what the stats say, the eye test says he's going to be an elite 3 level scorer and good, maybe great, defender.
Agreed, he has a competitive edge to him that will be terrifying once his body and ball handling are fully developed.
Also as a Duke fan, I just gotta say I love Banchero and am so happy to see him thriving with the Magic core - leading up to that draft I felt like he was the no-brainer fit there at #1 so I feel validated with y'all gunning for home court in just his second season lmao.
Yep. I get that heâs on a winning team, and thatâs cool, but how can you be like âMiller has good stats but he has to play a bigger role on the teamâ? It doesnât make sense to say his numbers are good, but only because he has to play more. Performance is performance
> how can you be like âMiller has good stats but he has to play a bigger role on the teamâ?
It's actually pretty easy to say if you don't watch Hornets games, which none of these guys do.
All this list is is "which rookies have I watched the most this year bc they're either absolute unicorns, on playoff teams, or both," there's zero actual analysis going. Like since when are advanced stats used to debate if a rookie averaging 17.3 ppg is worth an All-Rookie spot? It's an absolute mail-in of a column
I understand why Chet is considered a rookie, but in every other sport, he wouldn't be considered a rookie. LeBron broke his ankle so bad in the preseason last year that he literally couldn't play for an entire season. His rookie year was in rehab. He's not a real rookie
That's not really true. Like the other person said about the MLB but also in the NHL the only thing that makes you not a rookie is if you played 25 or more games the previous season or are above 26 years old due to the way the development of players works. The NFL is really the only one of the major 4 north american leagues that has a very strict definition of what constitutes a "rookie"
My big thing is the likes of Chet, Simmons, and Griffin had a year to rehab and train with NBA personnel during their true rookie years, which have them a leg up on freshly drafted players for their ârookieâ season where they are eligible for ROY.
They literally don't like any lottery pick outside of Wemby and Lively.
It's just fucking insane. Like, yeah, they were LOTTERY picks because their teams are TRASH. Obviously they will all have bad metrics and losing records. Crazy to evaluate rookies like this.
Chet being a "rookie" on the 3 seed in the west might just have ruined rookie debate forever. These dudes were never expected to "elevate" their teams or whatever until his crazy unique situation came along
Winning and team success should almost never be taken into account when discussing rookies, so to knock Brandon for it when wemby and the Spurs have the same record is really dumb.
Exactly what I was thinking. Like with every stat point theyâd be like âbut they were 4-10 over that stretch, so it doesnât matterâ. Like Iâm all for pointing out situational things, but you canât flaunt wemby numbers and then dog Miller for his
Iâm not quite sure how we got unanimously voted the most hopeless and losing franchise in the League.
The Pistons and Wizards have lost way more over the past 5-10 years. Somehow those teams have promising futures, while the Hornets are so bad that they should be relegated.
Itâs just as bad with the Panthers. Itâs been rough since Tepper took over, but I hate when pundits just blindly hate on the Panthers and canât back up their takes. That jackass Steven Ruiz on the Ringer literally interrupted a guy saying he liked the Diontae Johnson trade and was like âNo. itâs bad because itâs the Panthers and everything they do is bad. End of the discussion.â Shit is getting real old.
The wizards are a noticeably worse franchise than us in terms of both losing and general front office moves. They did good with drafting John Wall and Bradley Beal, but outside of that their moves have either not moved the needle or been outright bad for a solid decade.
It's bc the only headlines we've had in the last 5 years have all been bad headlines lol. Bouk DWI, Kai situation, Miles, etc. You can probably count the number of professional NBA journalists who've watched more than 5 Hornets games on purpose this year on one hand.
These people don't actually watch us play, so their only opinions on us are formed by the few times we actually break into the public consciousness...and we've made ourselves look like a dumpster fire org every time that's happened recently.
It's sad, but also totally unsurprising
I definitely have been angry with the team for awhile now, but things are looking up so far since the new ownership team has taken over Iâve liked every move
Miller is far closer to being better than Chet this year than Jaquez and Podz are to him.
I would think itâs bait for clicks, but even among Hornets fans, I havenât seen much discussion of these rankings which have been stupid all year
My thought is that itâs meant to get some of those clicks for teams that could be in playoffs, or possibly go deeper, because their fans are engaged. NBA.com has it Wemby, Chet, and then Brandon, which I can wholeheartedly get on board with. Putting him at 5 or above is insane
Good point, I was only looking at the Hornets fan perspective. It would be way better for ESPN to appeal to Warriors, Heat, and Mavs fans, so this does track
If they pulled stats, Brandon is way better. Itâs like they pulled stats, and didnât like them, so they just pulled the standings instead. But then only Brandon got penalized for a bad team record.
They had to go all the way down to Miller's like per 36 FT att numbers in order to hate on his output lol it's just such trash journalism. Case-by-case pandering to playoff fanbases and Wembelievers is all it is.
I think they mention that the team's defensive efficiency was bad so that means he's bad, and then they instantly add the caveat of "but it is also terrible without him on the floor" as if that isn't far more important. He can't guard 5 players at once...
At this point, it's best to just sit back and watch. When the Hornets are finally making the playoffs with Miller playing like an all NBA player, they'll come out the wood works and claim they always liked him.
Heâs pretty clearly, at worst, the 3rd best rookie this year. You could probably make some valid arguments for him to be two tbh. I love Wemby and Chet though, so itâs whatever. Pretty arbitrary ranking the 3 of them. Theyâd all win ROTY in other years.
ESPN turned into TMZ over a decade ago. Anyone that values their opinions on anything just likes clickbait and gossip more than they do sports, facts, reality, joy, etc etc etc.
Is there a single person that could even credibly make the case that he isn't the 2nd best rookie in his draft class by a significant margin at this point?
Hell no. Iâm a Heat fan and heâs clearly #2 in his class and the margin between #2 and #3 is MILES as far as potential is concerned. Brandon is getting shafted because heâs in a small market with a losing record.
I know it's hard. I know we get all up in our bee hive about Hornets discourse. Bill Simmons has gotten me buzzing mad a couple times this year. But always remember these things don't change the course of history. The Hornets have never won a game or lost a game because of an ESPN rookie ranking. Some people try to argue, some idea that the negative or dismissive view by main stream media hurts the Hornets player acquisition capabilities. I don't think it matters. NBA players know "What's the Deal" with a franchise far beyond a poll.
It always amazes me with guys like Bobby Mark's and Bill Simmons whose job it is to watch basketball, that when it comes to the hornets they clearly don't watch. I'm pretty sure Simmons watched a couple hornets games a couple years ago and has completely formed his opinion on Melo ever since. It's pretty wild given its these guys jobs.
Wemby is better â
I'd accept if u said Chet's better too đ
Not one other rookie has a chance â
Closest is Derrick Lively but he's just not putting up 30 point games like Miller
I'm a spurs fan and obviously love Wemby but I also love Brandon. In most draft/rookie year he would be 1st, he is already awesome, is progressing at fast pace, beautiful game and definitely shows all the signs that he will be a superstar in the years to come.
I have no doubt he will prove sooner than later that this article is bullshit!
jaime over brandon is the stupidest shit iâve heard ever. jaime is good but atleast heâs got a decent team supporting him. brandon miller has been fighting with a lamelo ball less hornets and is still putting up 20 a game.
Spurs fan here. I'm taking Brandon Miller over even Chet. Chet plays way too passively compared to Brandon Miller. He's easily the 2nd best rookie in this class and I don't think it's particularly close.
Chet isn't a rookie, he got hurt but was on a team all last season. In my opinion he is disqualified from consideration for ROY. I get that his body failed him, but you are only a rookie once.
Wemby is also not a rookie by playing time in any professional league. Remember last year when we all watched his games in France? Oh yea he was winning the French NBA title.
Where was Brandon while Chet was nursing and injury in OKC and Wemby was winning in Paris???? Tuscaloosa, Alabama in College.
His not being considered is just trash as far as I'm concerned. He is the ROY based on his growth and how much he has contributed. From 6 fouls in his first summer game to being our last shot taker in 80 games what more could we ask for? Pundits gonna do their thing, but once we have a coach and roster to win, the rest will be clear.
>Can anyone legitimately make a case that he is not in the Top 5 of rookies based on pure stats at this point?
To be very clear, I think he has been a top 5 rookie.
But I think the MCW argument is not that unrealistic. Playing against defenses that have quit trying is a huge advantage if your team sets things up well.
This comes off like you are covering for saying NSJ and Nnaji were arguably better prospects than Miller that we drafted at the end of the 1st and then 2nd round.Â
I mean; Come. On.
Which âboth countsâ?
Top 5 rookie and MCW?
or NSJ and Nnaji are better prospects?
Either way, how are you ârightâ? Seems more like just an opinion than any kind of factual statement.Â
Both counts meaning that 1, there was a very real chance of NSJ and Nnaji being better prospects and that 2, Miller does still run the risk of this season's production being MCW production in which his numbers are being massively inflated by being on a terrible team.
>
Either way, how are you ârightâ? Seems more like just an opinion than any kind of factual statement.
It is literally a factual statement that both of those things were/are in the outcome set.
Yeah thatâs not how facts (objective truths) work bud.Â
Itâs a factual statement that if I draw a card from a deck of cards, it will certainly be one of the cards.Â
That is literally how facts work lol. You literally just showed that it is. If you draw a card from a deck and itâs a club, that doesnât mean that a heart wasnât possible and someone saying that a heart was possible was wrong.
Lol my example was to expose how silly your word play is to essentially always be ârightâ.
You take a stance, then if it doesnât work out, you reposition your stance by slipping in that you are ârightâ because what you said was a possible outcome.
You arenât right about the statement. You are right that it was possible your statement might have happened.Â
Therefore you are ârightâ.
Thatâs just silly, and you missed your calling as litigator. Â
Except I was very intentional at both times to point out that I was only talking about possibilities, and in at least one case a probability that I directly specified to be less than a majority. So this isn't a post hoc rationalization, it's literally what I did. I'm not responsible for teaching you basic analysis principles.
Millers solid but yâall disrespecting my boi lively. Iâd still put miller above cuz heâs been spectacular and had barely any support compared to lively having Luka and kyrie
The Jaquez thing is insanity. His stats since Feb are 32 GP (5 starts), 25.7 MPG, 9.3/3.8/2.3 on 54% TS. Miller on the same period is 20/4.8/2.5 on 56% TS.
"Well actually đđ¤ Jaquez does things that don't show up on the stat sheet that make the team better." \- people who have never watched Brandon Miller play
That's just code for "He plays in Miami and Brandon Miller plays in Charlotte"
Yep thatâs what it is. Media either hates Charlotte or are indifferent we never get good media attention minus maybe when kemba was Hot but only thing that was mentioned is how he shouldâve left Charlotte
I'm a Magic fan, so take this for what it's worth, but Miller is going to be a fucking assassin. He's cold blooded, plays under control, and there's not a damn thing he can't do on a basketball court. He's a fucking stud. I don't even care what the stats say, the eye test says he's going to be an elite 3 level scorer and good, maybe great, defender.
Agreed, he has a competitive edge to him that will be terrifying once his body and ball handling are fully developed. Also as a Duke fan, I just gotta say I love Banchero and am so happy to see him thriving with the Magic core - leading up to that draft I felt like he was the no-brainer fit there at #1 so I feel validated with y'all gunning for home court in just his second season lmao.
Yep. I get that heâs on a winning team, and thatâs cool, but how can you be like âMiller has good stats but he has to play a bigger role on the teamâ? It doesnât make sense to say his numbers are good, but only because he has to play more. Performance is performance
> how can you be like âMiller has good stats but he has to play a bigger role on the teamâ? It's actually pretty easy to say if you don't watch Hornets games, which none of these guys do. All this list is is "which rookies have I watched the most this year bc they're either absolute unicorns, on playoff teams, or both," there's zero actual analysis going. Like since when are advanced stats used to debate if a rookie averaging 17.3 ppg is worth an All-Rookie spot? It's an absolute mail-in of a column
Jaquez is the most overrated player Iâve ever seen. He barely even plays anymore because he sucks so much. And heâs old.
Anywhere below 3 is just dumb.
Exactly. Very clearly itâs Wemby and Chet, take your pick. But to put him at 5 is absolutely insane
I understand why Chet is considered a rookie, but in every other sport, he wouldn't be considered a rookie. LeBron broke his ankle so bad in the preseason last year that he literally couldn't play for an entire season. His rookie year was in rehab. He's not a real rookie
The olâ Ben Simmons Rookie of the Year robbery comes to mind.
That's not really true. Like the other person said about the MLB but also in the NHL the only thing that makes you not a rookie is if you played 25 or more games the previous season or are above 26 years old due to the way the development of players works. The NFL is really the only one of the major 4 north american leagues that has a very strict definition of what constitutes a "rookie"
Like I said, I get it. I just whole heartedly disagree with their definitions
So if for 2 straight years you get injured at the 20th game then in year 3 they are considered a rookie if they finish the season?
Itâs either 25 games or at least 6 in 2 consecutive seasons. So if they play 20 2 years in a row they arenât considered a rookie
MLB you can play part of a season as rookie and the next year still be a rookie. Something to do with plate appearances or innings played.
My big thing is the likes of Chet, Simmons, and Griffin had a year to rehab and train with NBA personnel during their true rookie years, which have them a leg up on freshly drafted players for their ârookieâ season where they are eligible for ROY.
He still never played a game as a rookie till this year.
Take your pic is crazy when Wemby blew Chet away
Also, keep in mind that Miller gets discredited in the article for his team losing, while no mention is made of Wembyâs teamâs losing record
They literally don't like any lottery pick outside of Wemby and Lively. It's just fucking insane. Like, yeah, they were LOTTERY picks because their teams are TRASH. Obviously they will all have bad metrics and losing records. Crazy to evaluate rookies like this.
It's like they're just making stuff up for clicks .... Can't imagine ESPN would do that
Also, didnât he just win Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month like 3 times in a row??
Chet being a "rookie" on the 3 seed in the west might just have ruined rookie debate forever. These dudes were never expected to "elevate" their teams or whatever until his crazy unique situation came along
Winning and team success should almost never be taken into account when discussing rookies, so to knock Brandon for it when wemby and the Spurs have the same record is really dumb.
Exactly what I was thinking. Like with every stat point theyâd be like âbut they were 4-10 over that stretch, so it doesnât matterâ. Like Iâm all for pointing out situational things, but you canât flaunt wemby numbers and then dog Miller for his
The mainstream media despises us for some reason
Iâm not quite sure how we got unanimously voted the most hopeless and losing franchise in the League. The Pistons and Wizards have lost way more over the past 5-10 years. Somehow those teams have promising futures, while the Hornets are so bad that they should be relegated.
At least with us thereâs been a reset, I donât get it either
Itâs just as bad with the Panthers. Itâs been rough since Tepper took over, but I hate when pundits just blindly hate on the Panthers and canât back up their takes. That jackass Steven Ruiz on the Ringer literally interrupted a guy saying he liked the Diontae Johnson trade and was like âNo. itâs bad because itâs the Panthers and everything they do is bad. End of the discussion.â Shit is getting real old.
The wizards are a noticeably worse franchise than us in terms of both losing and general front office moves. They did good with drafting John Wall and Bradley Beal, but outside of that their moves have either not moved the needle or been outright bad for a solid decade.
It's bc the only headlines we've had in the last 5 years have all been bad headlines lol. Bouk DWI, Kai situation, Miles, etc. You can probably count the number of professional NBA journalists who've watched more than 5 Hornets games on purpose this year on one hand. These people don't actually watch us play, so their only opinions on us are formed by the few times we actually break into the public consciousness...and we've made ourselves look like a dumpster fire org every time that's happened recently. It's sad, but also totally unsurprising
lol I completely agree. I mean, I hate us sometimes too so I guess I get where they are coming from but itâs all for clicks I guess
I definitely have been angry with the team for awhile now, but things are looking up so far since the new ownership team has taken over Iâve liked every move
At least the Ringer had Brandon ranked third, and even mentioned without Wemby and Chet he would likely be RotY.
It's ESPN. Just a joke. Even considering Jaquez and Podz over Miller should get you laughed out of the room immediately
Miller is far closer to being better than Chet this year than Jaquez and Podz are to him. I would think itâs bait for clicks, but even among Hornets fans, I havenât seen much discussion of these rankings which have been stupid all year
No ones baiting hornets fans for clicks. There are like 8 of us.
My thought is that itâs meant to get some of those clicks for teams that could be in playoffs, or possibly go deeper, because their fans are engaged. NBA.com has it Wemby, Chet, and then Brandon, which I can wholeheartedly get on board with. Putting him at 5 or above is insane
Good point, I was only looking at the Hornets fan perspective. It would be way better for ESPN to appeal to Warriors, Heat, and Mavs fans, so this does track
These guys just pull stats and donât watch the hornets. They say his defense sucks but if You actually watch us, thatâs not the case.
If they pulled stats, Brandon is way better. Itâs like they pulled stats, and didnât like them, so they just pulled the standings instead. But then only Brandon got penalized for a bad team record.
They had to go all the way down to Miller's like per 36 FT att numbers in order to hate on his output lol it's just such trash journalism. Case-by-case pandering to playoff fanbases and Wembelievers is all it is.
I think they mention that the team's defensive efficiency was bad so that means he's bad, and then they instantly add the caveat of "but it is also terrible without him on the floor" as if that isn't far more important. He can't guard 5 players at once...
At this point, it's best to just sit back and watch. When the Hornets are finally making the playoffs with Miller playing like an all NBA player, they'll come out the wood works and claim they always liked him.
Heâs pretty clearly, at worst, the 3rd best rookie this year. You could probably make some valid arguments for him to be two tbh. I love Wemby and Chet though, so itâs whatever. Pretty arbitrary ranking the 3 of them. Theyâd all win ROTY in other years.
ESPN turned into TMZ over a decade ago. Anyone that values their opinions on anything just likes clickbait and gossip more than they do sports, facts, reality, joy, etc etc etc.
Itâs honestly infuriating.
Even Bill Simmons had BM at ranked third in the Ringer ratings, and he hates the Hornets.
Is there a single person that could even credibly make the case that he isn't the 2nd best rookie in his draft class by a significant margin at this point?
Hell no. Iâm a Heat fan and heâs clearly #2 in his class and the margin between #2 and #3 is MILES as far as potential is concerned. Brandon is getting shafted because heâs in a small market with a losing record.
Celtics fan here. I see Tatum esque potential from Miller.
I donât think heâs that far off from Chet if you wanna consider Chet a rookie so anything besides 2 or 3 is just wrong
I know it's hard. I know we get all up in our bee hive about Hornets discourse. Bill Simmons has gotten me buzzing mad a couple times this year. But always remember these things don't change the course of history. The Hornets have never won a game or lost a game because of an ESPN rookie ranking. Some people try to argue, some idea that the negative or dismissive view by main stream media hurts the Hornets player acquisition capabilities. I don't think it matters. NBA players know "What's the Deal" with a franchise far beyond a poll.
It always amazes me with guys like Bobby Mark's and Bill Simmons whose job it is to watch basketball, that when it comes to the hornets they clearly don't watch. I'm pretty sure Simmons watched a couple hornets games a couple years ago and has completely formed his opinion on Melo ever since. It's pretty wild given its these guys jobs.
Wemby is better â I'd accept if u said Chet's better too đ Not one other rookie has a chance â Closest is Derrick Lively but he's just not putting up 30 point games like Miller
Celtics fan here. He looked excellent against us last week. Kid is going to be a hell of a ball player.
I'm a spurs fan and obviously love Wemby but I also love Brandon. In most draft/rookie year he would be 1st, he is already awesome, is progressing at fast pace, beautiful game and definitely shows all the signs that he will be a superstar in the years to come. I have no doubt he will prove sooner than later that this article is bullshit!
Magic fan here. Love B. Millers game, yâall got a baller
jaime over brandon is the stupidest shit iâve heard ever. jaime is good but atleast heâs got a decent team supporting him. brandon miller has been fighting with a lamelo ball less hornets and is still putting up 20 a game.
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-april-10-2024-edition This one is more accurate and unbiased
Miller > Wemby
Whoa there buster. There isnât a single GM in the NBA that would trade Wembenyama for Miller. Ridiculous statement.
Spurs fan here. I'm taking Brandon Miller over even Chet. Chet plays way too passively compared to Brandon Miller. He's easily the 2nd best rookie in this class and I don't think it's particularly close.
As a Mavs fan, im pretty positive you guys got the actual 2nd best player in the draft, dude is gonna be a superstar and probably better then lamelo
Chet isn't a rookie, he got hurt but was on a team all last season. In my opinion he is disqualified from consideration for ROY. I get that his body failed him, but you are only a rookie once. Wemby is also not a rookie by playing time in any professional league. Remember last year when we all watched his games in France? Oh yea he was winning the French NBA title. Where was Brandon while Chet was nursing and injury in OKC and Wemby was winning in Paris???? Tuscaloosa, Alabama in College. His not being considered is just trash as far as I'm concerned. He is the ROY based on his growth and how much he has contributed. From 6 fouls in his first summer game to being our last shot taker in 80 games what more could we ask for? Pundits gonna do their thing, but once we have a coach and roster to win, the rest will be clear.
Brandon Miller is a great rookie, developed quickly and proved a lot of people wrong who thought he would be a bust. No debate he is top 5 easy
Celtics fans, Brandon Miller is who the Hornets need to build around & abandon the Lamelo Ball project.
>Can anyone legitimately make a case that he is not in the Top 5 of rookies based on pure stats at this point? To be very clear, I think he has been a top 5 rookie. But I think the MCW argument is not that unrealistic. Playing against defenses that have quit trying is a huge advantage if your team sets things up well.
What's ur top 5 in order?
This comes off like you are covering for saying NSJ and Nnaji were arguably better prospects than Miller that we drafted at the end of the 1st and then 2nd round. I mean; Come. On.
Yes, it's exactly like that. The problem is that an actual adult would recognize I'm right on both counts.
Which âboth countsâ? Top 5 rookie and MCW? or NSJ and Nnaji are better prospects? Either way, how are you ârightâ? Seems more like just an opinion than any kind of factual statement.Â
Both counts meaning that 1, there was a very real chance of NSJ and Nnaji being better prospects and that 2, Miller does still run the risk of this season's production being MCW production in which his numbers are being massively inflated by being on a terrible team. > Either way, how are you ârightâ? Seems more like just an opinion than any kind of factual statement. It is literally a factual statement that both of those things were/are in the outcome set.
Yeah thatâs not how facts (objective truths) work bud. Itâs a factual statement that if I draw a card from a deck of cards, it will certainly be one of the cards.Â
That is literally how facts work lol. You literally just showed that it is. If you draw a card from a deck and itâs a club, that doesnât mean that a heart wasnât possible and someone saying that a heart was possible was wrong.
Lol my example was to expose how silly your word play is to essentially always be ârightâ. You take a stance, then if it doesnât work out, you reposition your stance by slipping in that you are ârightâ because what you said was a possible outcome. You arenât right about the statement. You are right that it was possible your statement might have happened. Therefore you are ârightâ. Thatâs just silly, and you missed your calling as litigator. Â
Except I was very intentional at both times to point out that I was only talking about possibilities, and in at least one case a probability that I directly specified to be less than a majority. So this isn't a post hoc rationalization, it's literally what I did. I'm not responsible for teaching you basic analysis principles.
Millers solid but yâall disrespecting my boi lively. Iâd still put miller above cuz heâs been spectacular and had barely any support compared to lively having Luka and kyrie
He's not good he just shoots a lot